TRPG General Chat

V2Blast

01:27

@Powerdork I don't see how that answer = D&D favoring a particular setting? 5e has mostly stuck to the Forgotten Realms, but Crawford's just talking about spells and magic in general for the most part. He says in the linked video that "spells draw on what in some D&D worlds is called the Weave", which is basically raw magic given structure. He doesn't say the Weave is a thing in every setting that works the same way in every setting.

Joshua

How to annoy your players: the Druid who doesn't believe in weather control. Every day he casts predict weather. If the actual weather doesn't match, he casts dispel magic to get rid of weather control. If the players use weather control within five miles of him ...

V2Blast

You mean the control weather spell?

lol

My Lancer game today got cancelled due to another player having a family emergency of sorts

Joshua

01:48

Hmm; after reading this reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/6a8vio/… I should have encountered a Quarut already.

Medix2

@V2Blast I'm genuinely unsure whether "an emergency of sorts" is better or worse than a regular emergency, hmmm

Joshua

better

nitsua60

@Medix2 emergency of sorts:

StackSort connects to StackOverflow, searches for 'sort a list', and downloads and runs code snippets until the list is sorted.

V2Blast

02:29

@Medix2 Lol. Well, less "emergency", more "needing to be there for family".

Hot RPG Questions

02:50

6

Q: Drawing from the Deck of Many Things with a Simulacrum

Tl;dr: Can I use my Simulacrum to draw from a Deck of Many Things and if yes, what restrictions do apply? Longer version Imagine the following situation: You have gotten a Deck of Many Things and successfully identified it with an Arcana check, so you know what you got your hands on. Since...

NeutralTax

03:04

@nitsua60 xkcd is always appreciated

nitsua60

I may have to create a deck-of-many-things tag and go on a spree just so I can ignore/hide all these questions.</minirant>

@NeutralTax I've always wondered if someone ever tried to implement StackSort.

NeutralTax

@Carcer I enjoy the idea of breasts in places they don't belong, like on tables and doors

I got a splinter under my nail. That was not fun let me tell you.

That top comment was in reference to "unnecessary breasts" Realized it sounds weird out of context. Also in context as well

@nitsua60 gkoberger.github.io/stacksort

Yup its a thing

nitsua60

@NeutralTax From my n=1 test, I'm going to say "wow."

NeutralTax

03:19

It works suprising well

nitsua60

It accessed 21 different answers; 19 didn't have compilable code, the first failed to reorder elements, and the second sorted the list.

21 lookups and 2 attempts? That's not too shabby.

NeutralTax

i wonder how hard it would be to sabatoge

I summon the mightly C'htmlu

V2Blast

@NeutralTax lol

@nitsua60 yep

V2Blast

03:49

so

I've been using a Roll20 macro or sorts - specifically a global damage modifier - for my Rogue's Sneak Attack damage (in my Wednesday night streamed game, if you're curious)

it works fine on regular hits

but for some reason, it always rolls too many dice on crits

It's simple enough - I have this as a Global Damage Modifier (which you can enable on the Roll20 5e OGL sheet from the character sheet settings): [[@{Level}/2]]d6

so, basically, we were level 16, now we're level 18. so on a hit, when I have that damage modifier checked, it now rolls 9d6 for Sneak Attack damage on a regular hit (displaying it separately from the regular damage roll of the weapon of 1d8+5[DEX]+3[MAGIC] (it's a +3 magic weapon))

On a crit, it correctly rolls the base weapon damage dice twice, displaying it as X + Y, where X is the result of 1d8+5+3 and Y is just 1d8. For the Sneak Attack damage dice, if it displays as A + B, where A is the result of (18/2)d6... B always seems to display the result of 18d6 instead.

It doesn't seem to matter how many sets of parentheses I put around the bit before d6 in the global damage modifier; it always rolls twice as many dice for the second set of Sneak Attack rolls on crits as it should. I've tried every solution out there to make this macro work right, but nothing works.

The easy solution, of course, is to give up on this macro and just type in 9d6 instead of trying to have it auto-calculate based on my level. (Especially when we hit level 19 and it stays at 10d6 forever.)

but it's the principle of the thing, dangit! :P

Anyway, I'm considering asking if anyone has a solution for this on mainsite... But I fear it'll just sit there unanswered forever, and I'm not sure it is solvable if it's just a bug on Roll20's end

Powerdork

04:15

How are you rolling attack and damage together? / How are you rolling critical damage?
I'm tinkering with a rogue I threw together in the charactermancer and not seeing the button to output attack roll and damage roll together.

If it's a macro, toss me your macro and I'll troubleshoot

Oh, it's about clicking the button on the chat feed, I see.

V2Blast

04:37

Never used Charactermancer (but know of it/what it does)

and yeah

click the attack in your attacks list (or enable the macro bar in the Roll20 game settings, in the top-right of the page when in-game, then drag any attack from your attacks list to the macro bar and rename it. that's what I do). then click the name of the attack in chat itself to roll the damage

as I mentioned for global damage modifiers, you can enable that from character sheet settings, then add in whatever you want that will go on top of any damage roll you make from the sheet (including via macros tied to the sheet).

(there are global AC modifiers, attack modifiers, ability check modifiers, and saving throw modifier options in the settings as well)

So I have Sneak Attack set up as a global damage modifier (...even though, realistically speaking, I really only end up needing it on my main weapon since it almost always hits)

Powerdork

cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/602849376120995842/… this is the best i can get, and i got it by setting the second damage type up

V2Blast

My "macro" for it is above: [[(@{Level}/2)]]d6

Powerdork

Plug [[floor( (@{level}+1) /2)]]d6 into the second damage type and you'll get something like what I set up above, which is pretty much the best you're going to get. They made global damage modifiers multiply on a critical hit, so they're already not following the 5e rules, and they don't give you a mechanism to bring it in line.

The real best thing you can do is submit a pull request or whatnot on github or otherwise reach out to roll20 staff, but in the meanwhile, use the left sneak attack number on a critical hit.

There's even a toggle in the edit menu.

Or better yet: Every time you land a sneak attack, echo the text of the ability Sneak Attack from the class features box, and replace 1d6 with [[ [[floor( (@{level}+1) /2)]]d6 ]]

> an extra [[floor( (@{level}+1) /2)]]d6 ([[ [[floor( (@{level}+1) /2)]]d6 ]]) damage

(I cut the stray left paren)

Xirema

05:13

I would just like to state for the record that I win, on the basis that I needed to cite my own question to help one of my players figure out how to get their Action/Bonus Action spells to line up correctly.

V2Blast

05:47

@Powerdork Haha, yeah, there's plenty of workarounds, just was wondering if there's a way to get it to work as-is as a global damage modifier. Thanks for the attempt :)

Hot RPG Questions

06:57

4

Q: Where in Sphere-Space is Telene?

For context: Telene is the world from the Dungeons & Dragons Campaign Setting known as Kingdoms of Kalamar, published by Kenzer & Company. I have most of their 3.X compatible materials, but I have been unable to find if, and where, Telene resides within the "Phlogiston" of the 'all encompassing'...

dnd-3.5e dnd-3e

Carcer

08:18

@V2Blast in fairness the PHB does feature this sidebar which basically says "yeah the weave is everywhere that's how all magic works in D&D"

V2Blast

09:10

> The spellcasters of the Forgotten Realms call it the Weave and recognize its essence as the goddess Mystra, but casters have varied ways of naming and visualizing this interface.

Carcer

@V2Blast but it states that the thing that the weave describes is universal

V2Blast

true

I don't know much about what other settings are like

Carcer

historically I'm sure quite varied

whoops gotta go to work

kviiri

09:33

Yeah, it indeed sounds like they mean the Weave (as the concept) is universal, although different settings might have different interpretations or names for it.

AncientSwordRage

10:12

@V2Blast I'm coming from a different perspective based on how tags are handled. Flight feels too 'meta' and I'd have thought a dnd-5e-movement would cover that case. YMMV though

@Helwar shout out for the dragon born \m/

Hot RPG Questions

13:02

1

Q: Can a Loxodon PC wield a 2-handed sword and a shield

Could a Loxodon in full plate armor with tower shield in one hand, wield a greatsword with the other hand and their trunk?

dnd-5e racial-traits

NeutralTax

15:12

@AncientSwordRage Is there any reason it has to be specific to 5e?

GcL

@AncientSwordRage What? no love for DragonLance's draconians?

kviiri

Imagine if Drakon was called something like Kitty. We'd have Kittynian punishments.

AncientSwordRage

@NeutralTax because it's specific enough to be useful to the question

@GcL before my time 😲

nitsua60

15:54

@GcL As a playable race? Not really =)

GcL

@nitsua60 To be fair, that whole setting was difficult to make playable. My recollection was that it was highly lethal.

nitsua60

@GcL I just ran a few of the DL modules a couple of summers back--we had a bunch of fun with them. (Ran them in 5e, but I just ran it from the 1e modules converting on-the-fly.)

rummages

homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HJZyttvDg7 was our set of conventions to play Krynn in 5e.

GcL

@nitsua60 Did you base that on the book with Tanis on the front?

nitsua60

@GcL Autumn Twilight, you mean?

GcL

@nitsua60 The AD&D book. The dragonlance book I remember playing from had Tanis on the cover of the rule book.

nitsua60

16:02

I... have no idea what those special attacks of Goldmoon's are. And I have no recollection of writing them?

@GcL I've got the original modules DL1 through DL12 that I was using; I created the document from my recollection, my old Player's Guide to the Dragonlance Campaign, and probably some googling?

GcL

16:18

@nitsua60 Found it. drivethrurpg.com/product/162788/Dragonlance-Adventures-1e

NeutralTax

16:46

Is there anything I need to change or clarify in this question?

0

Q: How to guide my players into realizing they have multiple options available for an encounter?

For my next session with my PCs, I'm planning to have them witness an attack on an NPC that's intended to hook them the adventure. The plan is for the party to encounter his daughter, who also has a target painted on her back. I want the players to be making choices throughout the adventure, whet...

dnd-5e gm-techniques new-players adventure-writing

doppelgreener

@NeutralTax related to the question but not revising it, something to consider is that D&D itself is leaning heavily on your players to choose combat. It's a system built such that violence is the best solution to most problems, especially ones where violence is already happening. Even when it's not the cleanest available solution, it's the primary means of advancement so you're incentivised to engage in it anyway.

goodguy5

@NeutralTax not sure if it matters, but does the NPC have a literal target on her back?

doppelgreener

If you want your players to have a true choice where "hide", "flee", "talk to them", etc are all truly valid options fully equivalent in validity to "fight back", you may want to look at another system that actually values them equally as options.

David Coffron

@doppelgreener +1 to that. I see much more exploration of other choices when I've (however rarely) played other systems (or variant rulesets) that provide story-rewards or character-advancement for non-combat events, and especially when they have more developed mechanics for non-combat options than D&D

goodguy5

I don't know if I strictly agree with that.

David Coffron

16:58

@goodguy5 With experienced and coordinated players intent on using D&D as the same story-telling medium less concerned with character advancement it may balance out, but especially with new players or those drawn to D&D for its combat rules, I don't see nearly the same level of diversity in decisions.

goodguy5

I think it's more the players and their expectations. If you usually run a D&D game where violence is the answer, and then you try to throw in a noncombat situation disguised as a combat situation, the players (or the system) can't be blamed for using violence

doppelgreener

it's not about blame

David Coffron

@goodguy5 But if players are drafting their characters with a slew of well-developed non-combat mechanics they are more open to the expectation that these mechanics may be used (and thus non-combat solutions present themselves much easier)

goodguy5

such as?

doppelgreener

D&D is systematically set up around violence being the answer. not so in older editions where violence was extremely risky and would almost certainly kill the wizard, but it is nowadays. (although in older editions, the answer was to simply ensure your violence would be guaranteed as a resolution, or to not engage in it.)

Yuuki

17:01

@doppelgreener Knowing is half the battle. The other half? Violence.

NeutralTax

Its not that I'm not trying to get them to resolve it non violently, just that it might not be a smart idea to attack the guy who impaled the blacksmith in one hit

doppelgreener

@goodguy5 let's put it this way: in D&D, you have a character whose features are primarily developed for engaging in violence, and do not get used much outside the scope of violence. violence is your primary means of obtaining wealth and XP, which lets you expand your repertoire of violence. GP primarily gets spent on other features which are for violence. the game has two modes: "be violent" and "not being violent right now".

NeutralTax

I don't really see switching systems as a viable option for this.

David Coffron

@goodguy5 @BESW is much more familiar with a wide range of other systems that have well-developed non-combat mechanics, but one I like to point to is FATE where "Challenges, Contests, and Conflicts" are the focus, rather than combat

doppelgreener

@DavidCoffron Also me

Yuuki

17:03

My mini-devil homebrewers imp ale people all the time and you could easily take them in a fight.

doppelgreener

A game like Fate does not have that dichotomy because Fate does not put any special weight on violence to begin with. Violence is expressed as like... one skill. Maybe two. Out of twenty. And it gets no more focus than any other skill. All skills are available for resolving a situation. The system doesn't care about violence one way or the other, what it cares about is drama.

Yuuki

On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, changing systems seems like a post-campaign solution.

goodguy5

I guess we run different D&D games, then.

I've never seen Arcana, Nature, Religion, Survival, or Performance used in combat

doppelgreener

Fate has Conflicts, but Conflicts have nothing inherently to do with violence. Conflicts are for any head-to-head clash where you are trying to wear your opponent down. A Conflict is just as applicable for a dance-off competition or a ballroom argument.

David Coffron

@goodguy5 That's kind of my point. Fate would put Performance skill on the same level as the Fight skill

Carcer

17:07

remember, the memetic D&D powergamer's maxim is that any non-combat problem can be solved by turning it into a combat problem

David Coffron

Meaning a player would be no more or less motivated to use either other than the story itself

doppelgreener

The thing is that D&D does leave you room to do nonviolent things, but the more value you place on nonviolent scenes and options, and the more you want to choose and value those things, the more you're going against the grain. The more you do that, the more you're specifically ignoring the signals D&D gives you. D&D provides resistance and doesn't provide support. At some point it's easier to pick a different game that actually supports the kind of story you're telling.

goodguy5

different styles, I guess.

I can do almost all of the things in 5e that I do in Fate, but don't hate running it.

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron For an archer whose primary language isn't English, I could see a misunderstanding where "Performance" could be considered the noun form for "perforating someone with arrows".

doppelgreener

@goodguy5 I don't think I could do half the things I do in Fate in D&D. Not even in a "let's firmly change things around and use house rules and change how XP works and revalue wealth and..." way.

goodguy5

17:10

also, obviously removing setting elements.

Like, my D&D game is never going to have use for an electronics skill or something

doppelgreener

D&D just simply does not do the things I want my stories to do, and we'd be fighting against it every step of the way.

goodguy5

Such as?

Also, I should probably take off my Yule Hat.

David Coffron

@goodguy5 I've had immense difficulty telling compelling mystery plots, survival plots, and exploration plots (even though that is one of the "pillars") in D&D, for example, because the mechanics don't really lend themselves to those plot elements. Its certainly doable, and I've made it work to good effect in D&D, but there are other systems that do those types of plots better because the mechanics are more suited to allowing players to express archetypes in those genre

doppelgreener

I think I'd have to show you our games, but like this:
- Our Masters of Umdaar game: could not be run in D&D, despite being ostensibly fairly oriented toward physical conflicts. We value our story and drama in this game, and only value combat as one potential means to an end. D&D values the combat as the means and the end, and does not value our story and drama and does not help it. Encounters would not be *remotely* as effective as they have been; if we wanted to handle them remotely similarly we'd have to completely handwave the D&D rules and disengage from them. (This is that whole "not …

In all of these games, Fate critically values the act of losing. It values setbacks. It values complications. It values giving things up.

D&D is a game set up such that the players are winning when their characters are winning. Fate is set up such that the players are winning when their characters are getting their asses kicked.

David Coffron

Another one that is very hard to do in D&D, in my experience, (and something I've been trying to do well for a long time) is lovecraftian horror. The whole idea is that the "monsters" are wholly beyond comprehension in power-scale and can't be fought and beaten. Running this type of game in D&D would just be an injustice to its combat mechanics, and the players would feel like most of their kit is pointless. In another system, though, it is perfectly sensible as the characters struggle

with the story very differently.

doppelgreener

17:17

That enormously affects our narrative flows and allows us to have things go badly. If we ran these same things in D&D, our stories simply would not work out remotely the same way, nor would they be nearly as fun. We've tried and tested D&D. There's reasons we decided other systems—not just Fate—are more appropriate for our storytelling.

goodguy5

I'd like to play in your Fate game.

As I've said here and in various irl times:

I **KNOW** Fate is a good system, but I've never had that great of a time playing or running it. (Except this one time someone ran a Dresden Files RPG game)

doppelgreener

Thanks. I definitely don't feel like I have to convince anyone that Fate is good.

I am just talking at length here about how narratives aren't fully transient between systems.

goodguy5

And I've played rules light things. I've played Monster Hearts and those flighty 2d6 systems and stuff like roll for shoes.

I've had a very good time.

But Fate? I can't get it to stick.

Maybe it's too crunchy for a rules light system. I don't handle shades of gray well.

doppelgreener

Sure! I'm not specifically advocating Fate here. I'm just advocating “hey, there's other systems that may support the narratives you want to tell.” Fate is one system for one variety of narratives.

@goodguy5 I wouldn't call it a rules light system at all. It is fairly crunchy. But it's also a system that just gets interacted very differently to some of those games. I also see a lot of flaws in its design, which are helping me better understand when it is & isn't appropriate.

goodguy5

How about being "rules lenient"? I didn't love saying "rules light", but don't have a better term

I was kind of going off on a tangient from my original point. This happens when Fate comes up. My expectation vs anecdotal reality of Fate are so different, I just rant when I get the chance.

David Coffron

17:28

My Dad just found my profile here. xD I guess he was looking up a RPG question, and saw I had answered the question he found.

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron The student has surpassed the master?

David Coffron

@Yuuki Haha. I guess so; he did introduce me to RPGs (AD&D 2e and his homebrew system called Balzar)

Carcer

I still have my dad's AD&D 1e manuals

including his two pages of grappling houserules

David Coffron

@Carcer Sounds about right xD

How else am I going to make an awesome luchador character?

Carcer

and he told me the story of his favourite magical item, a ring which let you cast lightning bolt at will

the only downside being that when you did you rolled on a table to see which part of you fell off

David Coffron

17:34

@Carcer Ooh. That's very intriguing.

goodguy5

name of the ring?

Carcer

apparently the character who had it eventually died when his torso fell off

nitsua60

"Torso" is a pretty aggressive entry in that table....

Carcer

dunno if it had a name, as it was told to me this was a homebrew invention of my dad's GM friend

David Coffron

@goodguy5 The Ring of Lightening (because you lighten whenever you use it)?

goodguy5

17:35

Also, on the topic of things D&D 5e is not great at: Grappling.

Specifically wrestling. Playing a Luchador is nearly impossible unless you're just playing a monk and you name your unarmed strikes things that sound like you're wrestling.

Carcer

@nitsua60 yeah, it was heavily weighted to fingers and toes but got more serious at the very high end of the rolls

nitsua60

(This friend sounds like they're a RL electrician who can't feel a finger or two after some bad shocks.)

@goodguy5 I've been happy with a battlemaster/barbarian wrestler. We've renamed many of the maneuvers but not changed their mechanics, and it works pretty well.

goodguy5

@nitsua60 A buddy of mine swears/swore he had numbness in his ulnar nerve for decades until he accidentally shocked himself working on something in his house.

nitsua60

Pushing attack is a drop-kick, tripping attacks are cross-body blocks, &c.

Carcer

@DavidCoffron you know it's not entirely impossible that that was the intended pun and it just took 40 years for anyone to get it

goodguy5

17:37

thumbs.gfycat.com/SociableConfusedBream-mobile.mp4

bah, how do I embed a gif?

doppelgreener

I kinda think of it like this: D&D and PBTA (like Monster Hearts) are rules engines. They are continuously driving the game forward. They tell you what to do next, they set up expectations, etc. It is difficult to be playing the game without having some idea of what the game wants you to do next.
Fate is not a game engine. It's just a game toolkit. It's like lego bricks. It has no expectation for what you do with them. It will not tell you to do anything in particular next. You have to generate that yourself. However, once you have something you want to do, Fate has pieces ready and availab…

NeutralTax

I think 5e is lacking in classes or abilities that move the enemy around

David Coffron

@NeutralTax nods I think 5e is a bit lacking in mechanics that care about positioning in general.

Carcer

the thing about positioning/forced movement mechanics is that for them to really work at all basically requires you to be using a grid/battlemap system of some kind

4e was happy to make that assumption but 5e tries (not necessarily very well) not to

goodguy5

@nitsua60 I'm trying to link a hurricanrana. jump on someone's shoulders and bend physics until they're on their back and you're not.

Powerdork

17:40

@Carcer TOTM?

David Coffron

(Nevermind)

@goodguy5 Maybe you have to upload it to the stack's imgur thingy for it to imbed

@goodguy5 Yeah; I guess you could narrate that and mechanically call it just a shove prone action, but it doesn't have the same kick as some more fleshed out grapple rules would

goodguy5

@DavidCoffron the rules for "kick" are actually fairly fleshed out.

David Coffron

goodguy5

burn the witch!

David Coffron

@goodguy5 Yeah if you upload to stack's imgur it works fine

goodguy5

17:44

I also realize that I was trying to embed an mp4

NeutralTax

oh wow, the witcher switch now has cross saves with the pc version

Victor B

Hey everyone. I am confused about something: Can a monk use Darkness to create a place to Shadow Step from?

goodguy5

Is there a reason they wouldn't be able to?

as long as it meets the criteria: "to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness"

There's an issue with being able to see while in darkness, but as long as that's dealt with, it works

Victor B

I have been letting Dungeon Dudes play in the background as I work and they keep repeating that "Darkness" creates a magical darkness, thus if you cannot see in magical darkness, like having Devil's Sight, you won't be able to see though your own spell.

goodguy5

correct

Victor B

17:52

So a monk won't be able to see the dark unocupied space if they cast darkness on themselves

Someone_Evil

9

Q: Can I use the Shadow Step feature to effectively teleport into a Darkness spell I cast upon myself?

I cannot find anything that specifically says I’m unable to accomplish the combo I have in mind, but it seems incredibly broken so please tell me otherwise. If I take 2 levels of Warlock (picking up the Devil’s Sight eldritch invocation) and 6 levels of Shadow Monk to gain the Shadow Step featur...

dnd-5e spells class-feature monk eldritch-invocations

goodguy5

I figured we had that question laying around. good find

Carcer

that question presumes a shadow monk/warlock mutliclass taking devil's sight specifically so it can see into magical darkness

in the general case, a Shadow Monk can't see in magical darkness and gets no special ability to see through magical darkness in any way

Powerdork

@VictorB Dungeon Dudes?

Victor B

@Powerdork yes, a youtube channel of a couple D&D players who give a bit of info on how they played characters, or interesting stuff that happened in their campaign.

Xirema

17:57

@Carcer I'm still upset that the Shadow Sorcerer magical-darkvision only works on their own darkness.

And even then only if cast in a specific way.

Victor B

Since they can't see in darkness naturally, I wanted to give my monk something like Devil's Sight... is there a way to avoid a 2 level dip just to get this feature?

Someone_Evil

I don't think so (outside homebrewing a feat/magic item/etc.)

Xirema

It's such a needless restriction. You only need two levels of Warlock to get the exact same feature, DMs usually restrict multiclassing into Sorc/Warlock anyways, and Sorcerers are already lacking cool, game-changing origin features anyways.

Victor B

I might be wrong, but would Keen Mind feat work?

Or would focusing on the image of the dark area not count?

Xirema

@VictorB It would not.

Victor B

18:03

hmm, so you could cast darkness on the area behind a villain and go there, but not cast darkness on yourself to get to the shadowy area that already exists behind them? seems odd. Even if the darkness a Shadow Monk could use would have the Shadow Sorcerer's caviat sounds like it would be more balanced.

Someone_Evil

16

Q: How does a shadow monk teleport into magical darkness if they don't have line of sight to a square inside of it?

There was a question similar to this question posted here. Where the jist of the question was asked what use does a Shadow Monk have for casting Darkness if they can't see through it. My question is along the same route but slightly different. The spell darkness states that creatures with darkvi...

dnd-5e spells monk vision-and-light line-of-sight

Xirema

@VictorB The Warlock's Devil's Sight is, as far as I'm aware, the only reliable Magical Darkvision in the game. Shadow Sorcerers gain the ability to see through their own Darkness if they cast it using Sorcery Points (which they gain the ability to do so at level 3), but it's a steeper multiclass cost, is just as hard to justify from a narrative perspective (which usually matters for multiclassing into Sorc/Warlock), and Monk/Sorcerer has the same problem that Monk/Warlocks have in being MAD.

Also it's flat-out more restrictive.

Someone_Evil

From the answer to the Q I linked below, there's also true seeing (6th level spell) and gem of seeing (magic item)

Victor B

That sucks, I wanted to multiclass once into a rogue to gain things like Theives Can't and porficiency in theives tools. That would be the slight tweek that makes a Shadow Monk into a ninja

@Someone_Evil True Seeing would only be temporary, sadly

goodguy5

Do we have a question about making dimness in 5e, or is that just Pathfinder?

Yuuki

18:08

So do Kenku sound like Microsoft Sam?

Xirema

@goodguy5 Not precisely, but we do have a question or two about "filling an area with dim light", a'la moonbeam or the UA Cleric's Channel Divinity.

goodguy5

oh yea.... I forgot that moonbeam dimifies an area

Victor B

Don't Kenku not talk? only use mimicry? Thus they would sound like whomever they are stealing their voice from

Yuuki

Yeah but could they construct a sentence piecemeal by mimicking different words from different people.

Like those YouTube videos where they splice a bunch of audio files to get people to "say" weird things.

Xirema

11

Q: Does Dim Light created by an effect override Bright Light in an area?

Two examples. A silvery beam of pale light shines down in a 5-foot-radius, 40-foot-high cylinder centered on a point within range. Until the spell ends, dim light fills the cylinder. —Moonbeam, Player's Handbook, pg. 261 You create up to four torch-sized lights within range, [...]...

dnd-5e spells vision-and-light

Victor B

18:11

@Yuuki think of someone cutting words out of a magazine to write a letter. It won't make the font look typed or uniform

You'd get more like how Bumblebee talks in the first Transformer movie

David Coffron

@VictorB That's actually a great example of how it works.

Victor B

@DavidCoffron Thank you.

I do have one last suggestion for the use of Darkness for my monk... If they cast it BESIDE themselves to cast a shadow on where they are, would that allow them to shadow step?

Yuuki

I wonder if Kenku could spend a long enough time with a Common speaker such that they could speak fluidly but it would just sound exactly like that person.

Aaaaand now I'm thinking about how "THIS VOICE HAS BEEN PASSED DOWN THE WINGSTRONG FAMILY LINE FOR GENERATIONS".

Victor B

@Yuuki I think the Kenku would have to hire someone to read them the dictionary. We tend to repeat words quite often and stick to similar subjects, so even spending a year with someone, their vocabulary would still be limited

Then again, if they learn too much, their curse might take their mimicry away as their lack of ability to talk is due to a curse of silence, and finding an outside way to talk might bring up an evil demonlord (or whatever race he was) down to smite your kenku

Yuuki

I kinda like the idea of a particular voice/cadence being a sign of family and history though.

goodguy5

18:19

we actually also have a question about that.

Darkness does not create a shadow

26

Q: Does Darkness cast a shadow?

If you were outside during the day and you cast darkness above you somehow, would the darkness cast a shadow? If you cast darkness in a tunnel, and the only source of light was from one end of the tunnel only, would the other side of the darkness spell remain illuminated or would it be plunged i...

dnd-5e spells

Victor B

@Yuuki Kenkus cannot speak because they pissed off their master years ago. It was one of the 3 great curses. So they cannot "inherit" the trait.

However, I do not see how that can be stopped if they are a high-level monk gaining Speach of Sun and Moon

@goodguy5 so you could have a spere of darkness that casts a candle's light? sounds more odd than restricting the light on the other side

goodguy5

@VictorB what?

Victor B

the darkness? If you cast darkness and have a candle lit from inside, or a torch, the answer given states that the light can be seen outside of the darkness, just not in it. Since the answer given was "it isn't to stop the penetration of light"

goodguy5

Oh, okay. I didn't understand your phrasing.

Victor B

I might be missing something, but either it blocks non-magical light from passing through it, ergo creates absolute darkness, or it makes an area of darkness that can cast light from within itself, just not on itself

goodguy5

18:29

Well, the area of darkness can't cast anything. as it's less than an inanimate object.

also, it's magic and the intersection of physics and magic is *shrugging sounds*

But it seems that if someone has a source of light inside of a darkness spell, that portion of that light that extends beyond the bounds of the darkness spell would be visible outside of the spell.

NautArch

I hate to say it, but you're trying to interpret rules in non standard ways rather than mostly taking them at face value and working within them.

That can be possible, but it's really up to the DM.

Victor B

@NautArch Hello. what I am trying to do is see how a monk might use darkness to shadow step without sacrificing two levels to a warlock.

Apperantly mental images and feats are not, so I am questionning the use of darkness itself

goodguy5

shadowstep TO the darkness

Victor B

doesn't help when your illuminated and there's a table behind your enemy (tables cast darkness giving you a chance to shadow step)

NautArch

A lot of the interactions you're asking about will likely end up being DM decisions. Similar to the question "can I hide here"

Victor B

18:34

fair enough.

goodguy5

I'm not sure that tables "cast" darkness, in either the magical sense or in the light sense, but sure.

also, don't sconced (sp) torches only give off bright light for like 15 feet? (searches)

Victor B

The tabletop in itself blocks light, casting a shadow beneath it as well as around it, depending on the light. Ergo "An area in shadow that you can see"

goodguy5

ah, 20 feet bright and 20 feet dim

So, you're going to teleport under the table?

Victor B

lol Illuminated Darkness Spell Activate (lights torch)

I was going to, jump out of it, as I wouldn't need much movement if I am right behind the wizard bugging my party

NautArch

I'm not positive, but I'm not sure you can teleport under s table.

doppelgreener

18:42

You can't tell me what I can't do!

GcL

19:12

@VictorB We had a monk that liked to make liberal use of shadow step. Under a table, behind an opened door, the recess for a window... there's no shortage of places outside of broad daylight that have shadows to step into. On the other hand, they got themselves into some nasty situations where they ended up surrounded for a round.

goodguy5

oh, one thing to note for @VictorB. If you're playing as a race that has dark vision, and you can extinguish lights through some means, you can hop around at will.

GcL

@goodguy5 Complication of darkvision, at least in Eberron, is the difficulty in determining the difference between dark and dim.

Victor B

When I heard of the ability, it reminded me of my first campaign. We found ourselves facing a large water elemental (I think) and a sorcerer/wizard who was controlling him. It was a super tough fight and I, with my first character, died.

So my mind naturally went "Hmm, if I could have used that to jump to the wizard, that would have really been good."

goodguy5

Well, it doesn't matter for the purpose of shadow step, as it works in either

GcL

@goodguy5 True. More for hiding.

@VictorB Dead wizard is one problem down. Still would have had a pissed off elemental to handle.

goodguy5

19:18

I think you can still hide in dim light..... might be thinking of a specific interaction, like wood elves or something

GcL

@goodguy5 Race or feat dependent I think.

Victor B

@goodguy5 You're right, and with a cantrip like Druidcraft, you could have a major playing field

@GcL I think our druid ended up saying "screw it" and left the rogues to fight the elemental... found out he was summoned.

goodguy5

A given area might be lightly or heavily obscured. In a lightly obscured area, such as dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage, creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.

Dim light, also called shadows, creates a lightly obscured area. An area of dim light is usually a boundary between a source of bright light, such as a torch, and surrounding darkness. The soft light of twilight and dawn also counts as dim light. A particularly brilliant full moon might bathe the land in dim light.

GcL

@VictorB Summoned elementals don't go away when the caster dies.

goodguy5

seems like you can hide in dim light

though, that brings into question what the wood elf ability does

Victor B

19:20

really? "Conjure" spells don't require you to be alive?

goodguy5

If your concentration is broken, the elemental doesn't disappear. Instead, you lose control of the elemental, it becomes hostile toward you and your companions, and it might attack. An uncontrolled elemental can't be dismissed by you, and it disappears 1 hour after you summoned it.

Yuuki

@VictorB Comes from the etymology. "Conjure" derives from "con jure" which is Latin for "with the law". Being dead is still a legal status so you can still cast conjuration spells while dead.

2

Victor B

@goodguy5 Mask of the Wild allows you to fade into mist, foliage or such. Nothing to do with light.

hmm I guess it was not pissed at us and left then.

or our DM saw we weren't equipped to fight it and decided it left... either way

goodguy5

@VictorB but dim light is also "lightly obscured", as is foliage and mist.

Victor B

@goodguy5 yes, so they can hide in there, as if in complete shadow, but not if they are in a city at dusk

at least that's how I read it

though mist actually creates light shifting, so you couldn't shadowstep in mist

GcL

19:27

@goodguy5 The only restriction on hide is that you can't do it from an creature that can see you. Lightly obscured could definitely prevent one from being seen if they haven't been spotted already.

@VictorB You can shadowstep in mist. It's like fog in that it's dim light.

goodguy5

@GcL I'm not sure that holds up

Powerdork

@VictorB Spells in general don't require the caster to be alive unless they have a concentration-y duration, no. A spell is a spell, not an extension of the spellcaster.

Victor B

oh really? Shadow Step sounds a litte better again

GcL

@goodguy5 I would like to cite Portland and it's endemic weather. Not being able to see to the end of the freakin block is pretty dim.

goodguy5

mist is lightly obscured
dim light is lightly obscured

mist is not dim light

GcL

19:28

@goodguy5 Is fog dim light?

goodguy5

I don't think so

Victor B

@Powerdork a lot of spells end when you break concentration

Powerdork

@VictorB Which? The ones with a concentration-y duration?

Victor B

yes.

Powerdork

Accounted for in the post.

GcL

19:30

@Powerdork Many of the persistent AOE effects, heat metal, levitate, fly, etc..

You generally expect a spell to end when you smack the caster hard enough.

Powerdork

Missing the forest for a single tree here.

Victor B

and Conjure spells require concentration, so I thought they wouldn't last.

Powerdork

@GcL No, I don't. A caster puts magical energy into the world and it sustains itself for the listed duration, unless the spell demands otherwise, such as by needing concentration.

goodguy5

@VictorB depends on the specific spell, such as that listed in conjure elemental

Victor B

now I know.

GcL

19:31

@Powerdork The ones that have persistent results are instantaneous effects. Fireball, pillar of earth, etc.

Yuuki

@goodguy5 wonder what a law elemental would look like

and if that's any different from modrons

GcL

@Powerdork The spells that have continuous effects but don't require concentration are in the minority. Duration greater than instant usually come with concentration.

Victor B

@Yuuki good or evil?

GcL

@Yuuki White wig and a gavel I'd expect.

Powerdork

Death ward, for instance.

goodguy5

19:33

conjure fey does the same (become hostile)

GcL

Possibly thick glasses and a penchant for formal ontologies.

Victor B

In DnD if you summon Law itself (the good kind) there is a body

It's a Diva. That is their function.

GcL

@Powerdork That's a spell that's in the minority of having a duration without require concentration.

Victor B

"Enforce absolute law and never be wrong"

goodguy5

and the summon (lesser/greater) demon spells also don't immediately disappear.

Powerdork

19:34

It still exists and it still demonstrates my point. Don't generalize.

That's all I ask.

Victor B

Hey, if I cast "Animal friendship" on an animal every day, would they bond with my character?

goodguy5

(I'd have chosen Mage Armor for a duration without concentration, but your way works)

Victor B

how long would it take?

GcL

@Powerdork Finding a single example doesn't mean that's the general nor expected case.

goodguy5

@VictorB It seems like you're describing Stockholm Syndrome. Aside from that, the rules do not say that you can bond with an animal through the use of Animal Friendship, so it'd be a DM call.

Victor B

19:38

@goodguy5 I realize it sounds like that, but any player with animal handling can work at bonding with an animal... I was thinking "Animal Friendship" could be used to increase the odds, not endenture servitude

Powerdork

Feather fall, feign death, forcecage, forbiddance, foresight, freedom of movement...

That's just the Fs.

NautArch

32

Q: What are the rules for owning and training animals?

I'm fairly new to DMing and so is my group, so we are all on a learning curve together. We're playing D&D 5e. Last week a fighter in our group tamed a wolf with Animal Handling and then requested that he keep the wolf. I allowed this, but now I'm not sure about how to play the wolf. Specificall...

dnd-5e animal training

goodguy5

spells with duration, but not concentration:

Alarm, Antipathy/Sympathy, Arcane Lock, Astral Projection, technically, Absorb Elements. those are A's

NautArch

@VictorB serious question: are you sure d&d is the system you want to play?

Powerdork

Here's a fun one. Geas lasts 30 days, and doesn't have a concentration duration or otherwise specify that it ends if you can't sustain it. There's nothing unique about that, though, no matter how much you feel about it. I can go through the Player's Handbook and name every spell that doesn't fit into your generalizations if you insist on generalizing.

Victor B

19:41

@NautArch I am pretty sure, have been for quite a while.

Sir Cinnamon

Highly loaded question haha

goodguy5

93 spells, by my count, that have duration with no concentration

Powerdork

Probably less a few because they only affect the caster in the first place (I excluded false life for obvious reasons), but still definitely over 50.

goodguy5

144 that require concentration, by my count

NautArch

It just seems like a lot of your ideas and desires require ways to work around the rules or things that requires dm special cases or rulings.

@VictorB which can be fine, but trying to build within the structure without special dispensations required may net you more positive results and allow for better expectations.

Especially if there isn't currently a DM you're working with to develop these ideas

GcL

19:51

@Powerdork Of 460 spells, 134 have instantaneous duration. 204 require concentration. The remaining 122 have non-instant durations and do not require concentration.

goodguy5

@GcL So, you agree?

GcL

@VictorB What's does "bonding an animal" get a character?

@goodguy5 Agree that most spells with a duration require concentration?

goodguy5

That it's a bad generalization, but your response tells me what I need.

GcL

@goodguy5 204 of 326 seems like a pretty decent majority.

goodguy5

disagree. it's 3/5s

GcL

19:54

What % of majority do you usually think of when you hear "majority" ? 2/3 ?

Powerdork

When (speaking generously) 1 in 5 are the exception, your generalization is bad.

goodguy5

Is it possible that we have a difference in how we define terms?

It *seems* that Powerdork is taking offense with your definition of "generally" (typed before they'd posted their message above mine)

GcL

@Powerdork What's the rate you usually think of when you hear the term "generally" ?

Powerdork

@GcL Oh, at least 19 out of 20.

goodguy5

I'm actually not sure I agree with your tightness of grouping.

80%+ seems to be "generally" to me, while 60%+ does not

95%, wow.

hrm.... now I'm wondering if "generally" is defined....

GcL

19:56

@goodguy5 That seems fair. It's just a difference in expectation.

Powerdork

Perhaps as a queer person I have a different take on this from y'all.

Xirema

Eh, if a majority of X is Y, I'm not going to argue against "generally, X is Y".

goodguy5

@Powerdork please explain how that matters?

Powerdork

To me, the small numbers matter.

NautArch

@Powerdork let's not make assumptions about the rest of the chatizens.

GcL

19:57

@goodguy5 There's Not A Bar for that discussion.

NautArch

^^

GcL

Heck, this one about the prevalence is probably headed to the Elemental Plan of Math

JohnP

@Powerdork as Naut says, making assumptions about that kind of thing is not really a great idea for chat, but if you want to pursue it we have Not a Bar.

Xirema

Heck, I've used "generally, X is Y" when X is Y isn't even a majority, just a plurality.

GcL

We already summoned the @Xirema

No concentration required.

goodguy5

19:58

ha

@Xirema do you care how much of a plurality?

GcL

@goodguy5 Also, does it have to be one where you append and 's' ? or can it be one that's it's own plural?

Like rice.

And now I'm hungry.

goodguy5

@GcL depends on context.

Transcript for