TRPG General Chat

12:46 AM

3

I am looking at the Steel Defender for the Battle Smith Artificier in ERLW. It is a construct STEEL DEFENDER Medium construct, neutral Armor Class 15 (natural armor) Hit Points equal the steel defender's Constitution modifier + your I ntell igence modifier + five times your le...

Powerdork

1:00 AM

is it on topic to ask why the agenda item in Masks is to "play to find out what changes" rather than "play to find out what happens"?

nitsua60

1:46 AM

@Powerdork I think so. Might be that there's a canonical reason... no way to know without asking.

Powerdork

Correction: Not why, but what it practically means.

Hot RPG Questions

2

Q: Are readied items/abilities expended or lost when the Ready action's trigger is not met?

I have been reading searching for an answer to the question as to whether a spell slot is lost or not if readied but not triggered. The rules as written does not explicitly state this but that appears to be the consensus. Readying a spell with the exception of the concentration requirement is n...

dnd-5e combat actions readied-action

nitsua60

2:03 AM

@Powerdork That strikes me as even more-clearly topical: expertise can answer that question.

Ben

Morning all

Powerdork

Yo.

Ben

I have a conundrum. The Halfling rogue has gone murder hobo

trogdor

Top of the nooning to ya

Ben

Not only is it getting to the point where she killed a helpless, unconscious and bound Goblin "oh look, target practice!" as well as constant threats to NPCs "We should just kill him, save th trouble" - "I'm right here... I can hear you"

It's the Halfling Rogue

V2Blast

2:19 AM

@Zachiel To be fair, it sounds like 4e said it in a weirder way :P

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, no whitespace in answer (182): How do I determine my ability scores? by bill on rpg.SE

V2Blast

2:40 AM

@Ben Was it a gradual shift, or just sudden murderhobo tendencies?

Have you talked to them about it?

Is it a "my guy syndrome" kinda thing, or something else?

Ben

@V2Blast Right off the bat - Is PvP allowed? Can we kill the goblin now that he's confessed? He said he wants to "change his ways but I don't believe him. We should kill this captured guy, he says he was the bodyguard but I reckon he's the reason they got caught.

I'm writing a post about it now, though

V2Blast

Ah, okay

nitsua60

Any E:D players here?

V2Blast

I'd definitely start with a conversation about why they want their character to do that stuff, and how the other players feel about it.

@nitsua60 E:D?

I'll pretend it stands for "Existential:Dread"

nitsua60

Elite:Dangerous. Or, in my case, Penniless:Harmless.

Ben

2:44 AM

@V2Blast Why pretend?

V2Blast

@nitsua60 Ah, that makes more sense

Ben

3:08 AM

@V2Blast Posted. It could probably do with a better title though

Glazius

@Powerdork That's a very stackable question as long as you frame it in terms of concerns you're having, "what does this mean about how I should run the game differently from Apocalypse World?" and less about a question of author intent "what were the authors thinking when they wrote this?" where only one person has a definitive answer and maybe not even them.

Powerdork

Hence the correction.

Powerdork

3:30 AM

What should I tag it, beyond the obvious [masks]?

Hot RPG Questions

3:48 AM

8

Q: Since the caster of the Zone of Truth spell knows whether a creature failed the save, can they use it to detect hidden/invisible creatures?

I'm DMing for a 5e party that includes a cleric, as many parties do. This cleric has found (what appears to be) an interpretation of the wording of the "Zone of Truth" spell that makes it even more powerful than it seems to be intended to be. His idea is that since Zone of Truth tells you when a...

dnd-5e spells stealth invisibility

Victor B

Hey, quick question: in WGtE, a Swiftstride Shifter's Shifting feature states: Additionally, you can move up to 10 feet as a
reaction when an enemy ends its turn within
5 feet of you. This movement doesn’t provoke
opportunity attacks.
Does this work once per turn or can they use this to move from enemy to enemy as long as they are within 10 feet and haven't gone yet?

Powerdork

It's a reaction. You're limited by the number of those you have, and by the timing of enemies' turns.

Ben

Yeah. You only get one reaction per round

Victor B

kk thought it sounded kinda broken and I was reading from an older version

Ben

It's like counterspell. It's my turn, and I cast a spell. You can cast counterspell as a reaction. I could also cast counterspell, as a reaction to your reaction, meaning that i negate your counterspell. You won't be able to react to my counterspell, since your reaction has already been used this round, and my original spell goes off unhindered.

Victor B

4:07 AM

Something sounds wrong there. If your spell requires concentration, one might argue that reacting with a counterspell while you are concentrating might be disadvantageous

Powerdork

I think you haven't actually done the work to cast the base spell when you use a counterspell, but it's all interpretive anyway, because 5e's philosophy is out to make everyone happy.

Victor B

Though in my situation, you have 5 enemies all within 10 feet of each other. One's 5 ft from my Shifter and ends their turn. As a reaction, my Shifter moves 10 ft behind the next guy who turns and swings, ending his turn.

my original question would be if my shifter could then react again and move another 10 ft and keep going until they moved 50 ft between turns.

Powerdork

Player's Handbook p. 190: When you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of your next turn.

Of note, an opportunity attack is a reaction.

Ben

@VictorB Concentration only stops if another spell requires concentration (or you stop, or if you fail to maintain it after taking dmg, etc); and it only requires concentration to maintain a spell, not cast it.

roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Spells#toc_22

Victor B

@Powerdork ah ok
@Ben My bad

Ben

4:16 AM

All good. It is a pretty edge case thing, the whole counter-counterspell. But it was the only one that came to mind.

Actually the Sentinel Feat is another one. It allows you to make an AoO if an enemy moves through or enters your (5ft) melee reach. If you use this, another enemy could then move away freely, without having to Disengage

Glazius

4:50 AM

@Powerdork powered-by-the-apocalypse is also a tag, and relevant.

Victor B

@Ben Melee reach or 5ft? Cause Whips and polearms have reach

Ben

@VictorB I think it's limited to 5ft.

Victor B

you're right. Though it's written oddly

it says 5ft AoO, then when an enemy 5ft from you attacks your ally, you can make a melee attack on them.

Ben

@VictorB I think the scenario you're thinking of requires Polearm Master.

Victor B

I am building a monk with a chained weapon, so I don't know if Polearm Master would cover a chained monk weapon

Ben

5:01 AM

No. it specifically applies to Glaives, halberds, pikes and quarterstaffs

dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/…

Victor B

I thought so. Hey, does the Ritual Caster feat actually not require you to know magic?

in my copy of the PHB it just says "inteligence or wisdome at least 14" as prerequisits

Ben

> You have learned a number of spells that you can cast as rituals.

Casting rituals takes time and effort, so it's a very basic and crude way of doing things.

Victor B

so you need to know at least one ritual spell?

Ben

So yes,this is how you learn to cast spells, it just takes you more effort because you haven't studied your whole life or been born with or granted the innate ability

@VictorB You don't need to know any spells.

The spells you gain access to, as part of this feat, are all cast as rituals.

Victor B

lol I can see that being mighty broken though... I mean, if you choose Wizard, then all the player would have to do is go to a Wizard's guild and ask to see a book of Rituals... copy all of em

Ben

5:13 AM

@VictorB 2 hours and 50 gold per spell, please and thankyou

> The spell must be on the spell list for the class you chose, the spell's level can be no higher than half your level (rounded up), and it must have the ritual tag.

You also gotta be at least level 5 to learn 3rd level spells.

Victor B

hmm that puts a damper on things...

ah well

Ben

Especially if you have a wizard already in the party. Lol

It's useful for parties that don't have any spellcasters

Victor B

true, though I was looking at it for other things... For instance, an artisan with a ritual feat could theoretically enchant some of his works with rituals to upsell them.

Ben

@VictorB Druids could do that in Pathfinder 1e

Victor B

oh? that sounds useful

Ben

5:25 AM

d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/masterwork-transformation

Again though, time consuming and expensive. You couldn't really make any profit out of it.

It was basically a way to get masterwork stuff now, and the cost was to make up for the time it would take normally.

Victor B

time is nothing when you're traveling by wagon for over a day (even doubling the time to account for concentration). As for cost, well, you make a dog's collar costing you about 1gp, enchant it with Speak with Animals for 50gp, in one day you have a Collar of the Speaking Canine that you can sell for 200gp, if I recall correctly

GcL

@VictorB Days traveling don't count for full days working. It's all the bumps and jumbles.

Powerdork

@Glazius Is it? It's not asking for expertise in general PBTA gaming (that's what the tag is for), it's asking for expertise in Masks specifically.

Glazius

As it differs from other PBTA games, yes.

Powerdork

How do I get across to you that I'm asking how my expertise with PBTA games doesn't apply?

Victor B

5:40 AM

@GcL I agree, but a good artisan could make a collar in an hour, the ritual caster would take 2 to make the enchantment, so even doubling that time, it would take 6 hours of a 8 hour drive to make the collar

Ben

5:50 AM

@VictorB Casting the spell as a ritual has its own time frame. It's the application of the spell to the item that requires additional knowledge and skill.

Even though you know a spell, binding it to an object is a whole other ball game

Victor B

Guess that's another idea rendered rather useless

Ben

The main part is making it permanent. Even if you cast it as a ritual, which only takes an action, once you know it; the spell itself only lasts for 10 minutes

It doesn't mean it's impossible, you just need more to it.

Victor B

true. it is something to consider, especially for a tinkerer.

Ben

Very true

Glazius

6:26 AM

@Powerdork So you need someone who has general PBTA expertise as well, to give you an answer you can relate to?

As we speak I'm doing a compare-and-contrast about how you threat up Dremmer taking over the hardhold's water supply and exorting them vs. how you threat up Dremmerman attacking the Halcyon City Dam.

Ben

6:42 AM

> Existentialist: Character Flaw. You have a tendency to go too deep with anything. Conversation; planning; envisioning the threat of future events; what happens after you die; what a bug thinks as it gains the ability to fly; what a leaf feels at the first raindrop it touches... I could go on.

V2Blast

7:05 AM

@Ben To clarify, if you cast a spell that requires concentration, you begin concentrating on it as soon as you start casting it; if you were previously concentrating on another spell, your concentration on it drops as soon as you start casting the new one.

@VictorB The exact wording is "Prerequisite: Intelligence or Wisdom of 13 or higher." That is indeed the only prerequisite for Ritual Caster.

@Powerdork I'm no expert on either PBTA or Masks, but if your question's asking what the effect of Masks going against a convention that's usually followed in other PBTA games is, both tags seem appropriate. It indicates that the question is able to best be addressed by people with experience in both - those people presumably best understand the difference.

Tags don't replace the need to describe your issue in the question - they just improve searchability/discoverability, and help indicate to potential experts in a subject that a question might be best answered by those with expertise in those subjects.

Victor B

8:20 AM

Another Quick Question:
Do monk weapons include slings?

Because I am trying to understand why they get darts if simple ranged weapons wouldn't count

Medix2

8:42 AM

Darts are not Monk weapons

From the Sage Advice Compendium: "Q. The dart is not classified as a monk weapon, yet a monk gets 10 darts as starting equipment. Why is that? A. Starting equipment often lends versatility to a character. In this case, a monk’s darts provide a ranged attack option, not a Martial Arts option."

Victor B

ah ok. Thanks

Medix2

Monk Weapons are "shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property."

Victor B

8:55 AM

ok checking because the PHB just says "Simple Weapons"

Medix2

Are you sure you're looking at the right part?

Monks have proficiency in all simple weapons and shortswords. But what weapons can actually be Monk Weapons (for things like the Martial Arts feature) is a more restricted list

Oh wait, I assumed you're talking about fifth edition DnD, that might have completely not been the case so please ignore what I said if you are not discussing dnd-5e

Powerdork

9:42 AM

Not everything you do has to benefit from all of your abilities at once. For instance, the 3.5e monk had fast movement (which only works when you move) and flurry of blows (which only works when you stand still for long enough to lay into someone).

But yes, the 5e monk does have class-specific starting gear of 10 darts, your choice of a simple weapon or a short sword, and your choice of a dungeoneer's pack or an explorer's pack.

The darts are only there because it's no fun to come up against something flying or otherwise unable to be reached and realize you have nothing to do while the sorcerer unleashes bolts, and in the fiction the expectation of any adventurer is that they have something to do besides punch it.

BESW

10:14 AM

Tonight's dinner is burritos with scrambled egg, potato, onion, bok choy, and garlic chives.

Victor B

Then again, if you're a Shadow Monk, one could argue that the night sky is in darkness, so you could shadow step above said creature and stunning strike them as you feather fall

or simply Shadow Step, hit 6 times at 1d6 each with a stunning strike, then Shadow Step back to where you were before.

kviiri

10:58 AM

Six times? I've played a monk and that still sounds quite extreme

Carcer

yeah, 4x is the limit barring haste or some other extra giving you more attacks

w

two from attack action with extra attack and then two as a bonus action with flurry of blows

kviiri

I picked darts as my kensei weapon

Victor B

2 attacks and use 2 ki points to arm them with a double Flurry of Blows on each attack. That makes 2 attacks, and 2 bonus attacks of 2 each, so 6.

woops, Shadow Step is also a bonus action, so either step in, hit twice, step out, or step in, hit 4 times and feather fall

kviiri

@VictorB You can't make two flurries in a round

it's a bonus action

Victor B

ah my bad. I kept reading it as bonus attack

kviiri

11:08 AM

Hm, fun memory from the campaign where I played Kensei, we were receiving a Plot Important Super Longsword, and aptly, longswords was one my Kensei weapons and everyone wanted me to have it, even our Paladin who was also proficient with it, because "you're the sword master guy!"

And I was like "yees, if you insist that can be the sword I hold while I still punch people to death"

Victor B

lol the monk weapon I'm using for my shadowmonk is called the Kaginawa

While technically it's a grappling hook made from a hand rake, 16ft of rope and a metal ring, it's a ninja tool that derives from the Martial Artist's Dart Rope

Classed as a dagger for argument and calculation sake, it's quite versatile in being able to grapple, wrap, be thrown, be used in hand and the ring can be whipped and neigh neighed

Hot RPG Questions

11:57 AM

4

Q: Managing New Player "Murder Hobos"

So I am running a LMoP game for a group of new players, and everyone is having a great time. We are all very new to it all though - it's my first time running a PW Campaign as a DM, (only had a few one-off games before now), but I do have plenty of player experience - and the Players are all new...

dnd-5e problem-players new-players

Carcer

@kviiri I mean, you both hit people with the sword and punch.

kviiri

@Carcer Yeah, but as any other class, I'd use that sword to hit ~all the time

while as a Kensei, I usually hit someone once per turn with it and spent the rest of the time kicking

or punching

until Extra Attack, the sword is (often) just an ornament

Carcer

it does more damage than your martial arts though

especially if you wield it two-handed

imagine if you will the kensei monk

holding a longsword in two hands

squat dancing menacingly towards their foes

kviiri

Yeah, it does more damage, but not much more. OTOH the difference is more pronounced before extra attack, which is the point where there is no reason to not use the sword at least once on a given turn.

Anyway, the point is mainly that another character would've made better use of the sword because the Kensei monk gets bonuses for not using their Kensei weapon, and the bonuses they get for using it are pretty orthogonal with the weapon's usual quality

Carcer

12:18 PM

@kviiri hang on - what bonuses does the monk get for not using the weapon?

the kensei appears to get a bunch of benefits to their use of their actual weapon

kviiri

@Carcer Agile parry

Carcer

@kviiri ah - that's specifically giving up the benefit of using the weapon for AC, which is a tactical choice...

kviiri

@Carcer Yes, but other classes don't have that same pickle. They will use the weapon as much as they can while the Kensei monk will probably skip it about once per turn.

And for that bonus, any rusty longsword will do just as fine as the Magic Blade of Plot Advancement

Carcer

fair enough.

kviiri

ofc it might be siauational but that longsword it an expected damage improvement of just 3 dmg per round while +2 AC is really good esp. when fighting lots of enemies at the same time

AncientSwordRage

12:32 PM

@BESW Cooked as a ritual?

I haven't looked too far, but does Kensai Monk work well with say Pact of the Blade/Hexblade/Booming Blade spell etc, or does it need to be a physical sword and not something granted by a feat/class/spell etc?

Hot RPG Questions

12:58 PM

12

Q: How do I play Masks to find out what changes, rather than to find out what happens?

Many Powered by the Apocalypse games make an agenda item of playing to find out what happens, discarding notions of "this will be my arc and this is how any particular scene from it will go" and looking to the unexpected for maximum fun and excitement. Masks: A New Generation has a particularly ...

gm-techniques powered-by-the-apocalypse masks

Carcer

1:32 PM

@AncientSwordRage requires "any simple or martial weapon that lacks the heavy and special properties", but the warlock pact/hexblade does involve a physical sword

you can create a pact weapon in a specific form, but if you've chosen that form as your kensei weapon, there's no reason you can't use kensei abilities with it

AncientSwordRage

@Carcer that sounds pretty cool, even if there no great synergy

Rubiksmoose

@HotRPGQuestions Yay! Masks on the HNQ.

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose DnD-based answers incoming! 5... 4.... (okay, just kidding, I think we've had much fewer of those in non-DnD questions recently and I'm happy about that)

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri I would be highly impressed and disappointed if someone could answer that question with D&D in mind. (thankfully I agree it's been much less of a problem!)

kviiri

@Glazius Seeing PbtA posts on the site cheers me up and it's rather often your name that's on them. Thank you for your good work!

Rubiksmoose

1:44 PM

^^

There's a decent chance I might be getting another game of Masks going in the future so I might be able to put up some more questions about it then :)

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose Super neat! (pun intended)

Sadly, my AW game got cancelled :< but I'll have more time and energy when summer draws near

AncientSwordRage

8

Q: How do Aarakocra fly with a backpack?

Imagine there is an Aarakocra PC who has an Adventurer’s Pack for starter equipment. It includes a backpack to store all the character’s stuff. Also Aarakocra have a fly speed. How should such character wear their backpack while flying? Is it possible for an Aarakocra to wear a backpack on thei...

dnd-5e equipment flight aarakocra

do we need flight and equipment on this question?

Someone_Evil

It is about a piece of equipment and its interaction with flight, so yes?

Rubiksmoose

2:03 PM

@kviiri :( Group just fall apart?

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose Yeaah, or well, failed to coalesce in the first place really.

We had the players in place but there wasn't enough initiative and drive to get even session zero on.

I probably contributed to that by being a "I won't be able to attend every session anyway and would therefore prefer if you guys do the scheduling, I'll join whenever I can and feel like it"

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil what doe those tags add? They don't interact with the rules about flight or equipment though? Also, it seems like there's no point following them if you'll get questions about flight from completely different systems

kviiri

The GM is a very friendly fellow though, and was explicitly okay with not being a "committed" player in the usual sense.

He's one of my besties. A solid gold chum. A true amigo. Supreme comrade. Etc.

Rubiksmoose

2:17 PM

@kviiri Great Muchacho?

That's sad though. I guess it is better to fall apart in planning then to put time and effort into getting something going and have it die.

But still...

Mage in the Barrel

hey I've got a lore question why are changling's abilities hag stuff in pathfinder and shapeshifter in 5e?

AncientSwordRage

@MageintheBarrel You may need to give more detail, but you can ask that as a question on the main site

Mage in the Barrel

I'm going off the time when changelings were free on dndbeyond

AncientSwordRage

also: 'hag stuff' ?

Mage in the Barrel

i couldn't think of a better way to describe it

like they have green hag, sea hag, ect

AncientSwordRage

2:22 PM

sloooooooooooooooooooow dooooooooooooooown

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose In a way, yeah

AncientSwordRage

@MageintheBarrel As far as I know a changling is a character race from eberron, correct?

kviiri

And I mean, given the lack of drive at this point it's likely the campaign wasn't that... well, expected anyway.

AncientSwordRage

@MageintheBarrel so how does a character race "have" green hag etc?

Mage in the Barrel

d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-changeling

kviiri

2:24 PM

@AncientSwordRage Well, it might border on designer reasons. Maybe if there's a clear enough lore angle to it it might be cool!

Mage in the Barrel

Pyrophile (Ash Hag): The changeling gains a +1 racial bonus on damage rolls when using spells with the fire descriptor. This bonus increases by 1 for every 4 levels the changeling has beyond 1st.

for example

green hag is kinda pushing the g rating

Wind Breaker (Storm Hag): The changeling is treated as two size categories larger for the purpose of resolving wind effects

AncientSwordRage

@MageintheBarrel Right, so you could ask: "Why are changeling variants (e.g. sea hag) not present in 5e, compared to Pathfinder?" which may be a non-questions as there's at least two jumps between PF and 5e

Mage in the Barrel

Isn't dnd and pathfinder based one the same lore just different settings?

Rubiksmoose

@MageintheBarrel Nope, not at all actually.

AncientSwordRage

@MageintheBarrel dnd is more a category than a single game with a single lore

kviiri

2:27 PM

Yeah. The only edition of DnD that had (or attempted) a single definitive lore, to my knowledge, was 4e with its Points of Light setting.

But do not quote me on that!

Mage in the Barrel

so which was first with the changeling 5e or pathfinder

AncientSwordRage

@kviiri never heard of 'points of light'

@MageintheBarrel Pathfinder predates 5E, but it looks like the PF version of changelings was added after PF broke off from 3.5e

Mage in the Barrel

Hmm I see

Rubiksmoose

I mean Paizo had to come up with a whole separate lore from D&D because of copyright and stuff. By my understanding. So even though D&D's lore isn't super contiguous, PF is still pretty distinct from it by my understanding.

kviiri

@AncientSwordRage The name, or the setting? I'm not actually sure if the name is in common use --- I picked it up from this chat.

AncientSwordRage

2:31 PM

@kviiri both

Mage in the Barrel

On another note, I need some advice my group changed to a later time so I miss 1-2 hours of session after I have to leave due to irl stuff. Should I just leave my group?

Rubiksmoose

@MageintheBarrel How long are your sessions generally?

AncientSwordRage

@MageintheBarrel the splat book is from MArch 28th 2015, and 5E was released in 2014....but the changeling in 5e would be from a later book as well...

Mage in the Barrel

3-4 hours I think

Rubiksmoose

@MageintheBarrel Missing half or more of a session definitely hurts, but I think it is really up to you and your group.

Mage in the Barrel

2:33 PM

They don't mind but it annoys the hell out of me

Rubiksmoose

As a DM I would probably find it a bit tedious to work around, but I could probably do it.

kviiri

@MageintheBarrel Why did they do this? I mean, they probably didn't do it just to tick you off did they?

Mage in the Barrel

no it has nothing to do with them

Rubiksmoose

@MageintheBarrel If it is more trouble than it is worth for you, then it sounds like leaving might be a good option. Find a better play group and time and have more fun if you can.

Mage in the Barrel

it's my parents and the fact that they give me a curfew

even though I'm 23

AncientSwordRage

2:35 PM

@MageintheBarrel you may want to try parenting or interpersonal then instead

Mage in the Barrel

I could go into the bottomless pit that is my relationship with my parents but that's not for here

AncientSwordRage

@MageintheBarrel you might get good advice from the above stackexchange sites instead then

kviiri

@AncientSwordRage I'm not an expert of the setting but it is fairly standard DnD fare to some extent. Plus it's the origin of Shadowfell and Feywild. Some interesting deviations from eg. Forgotten Realms are that all the gods are allied in a war against another supernatural force called the Primordials (while still working against each other in other issues), demons being corrupted elementals instead of souls and... hmm, what else.

Mage in the Barrel

I guess it's worth a shot

I'm getting pings but no messages

Rubiksmoose

@MageintheBarrel Yeah the best we can do is assume your parent issues are a constant you can't change and give you advice on how best to approach the fun you're having at the table. But really, that also mainly comes down to what kind of preferences you have.

kviiri

2:39 PM

Anyway "points of light" refers to how the world seems impossible to tame: it's an inhospitable place full of adventures and treasure but also death and terror. The "points" are those few places that maintain peace and calm: not major empires, just a few hubs where people can rest easily.

AncientSwordRage

@kviiri some of that rings a bell

kviiri

I don't recall particular lore about the primordials but I guess they were supposed to evoke the "gods vs titans" deal from Greek mythology, as well as "spirit versus matter". The world, as the battlefield of the two, is fittingly a bit of a junction of both.

NautArch

@VictorB If it's a dagger, then it can't grapple. It's just got your ranged or melee options.

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener FYI: kickstarter.com/projects/caveofmonstersgames/… Looks like they are close to public launch (if not good to go.) I should see if there are some reviews around soonish.

Mage in the Barrel

any suggestions on RP heavy modules?

NautArch

2:45 PM

would it be a bridge too far to remove the 'answer' in this question?

AncientSwordRage

@MageintheBarrel I don't have any suggestions unfortunately

Rubiksmoose

@MageintheBarrel For... D&D5e?

Mage in the Barrel

pathfinder

dnd 5e is too simplified for my liking

Rubiksmoose

Ah, can't help then. It's been far far too long since I've played to have any useful input.

AncientSwordRage

@NautArch no need for now I guess, it's only been ~12 hours?

NautArch

2:48 PM

It just makes the question for confusing to read and doesn't actually do anything to help those wanting to answer.

AncientSwordRage

@NautArch yeah, and as you identified the correct solution is for the OP to move it to an answer, and as it's a new contributor I'd give them a lot longer to do what you suggest

NautArch

@AncientSwordRage Yeah, that's a good point!

kviiri

3:02 PM

I just realized a few days back, that I own an actual campaign module for DnD 4e. One that I've yet to even crack open, but anyway.

I don't recall its name though.

NautArch

@kviiri You can always use my son's go-to name: Bobby McDoodles

MikeQ

3:21 PM

Good morrow my fellow chatizens

Yesterday I tested the 5E introductory one shot about retail workers in a magic shop. Seemed to go okay.

I'm not going to publish it to DMsGuild, but folks here are free to use and adapt it as they see fit.

NautArch

@MikeQ nice!

Should this question be split it into two?

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose Oh wow! Yay! Thank you!

MikeQ

@NautArch It only worked because the players already know and like each other. It's relatively unstructured and doesn't stop PCs from poking one another or antagonizing NPCs. I would not recommend it for a group of strangers.

NautArch

3:38 PM

@MikeQ ha!

that sounds somewhat similar to the rick and morty

in terms of how the game was set up and how it encourages certain interactions

Medix2

@NautArch It sounds like two different questions to me, but there's already two answers there so...

NautArch

@Medix2 Yeah, they are pretty close and I was typing mine up as I put the comment up. It's fairly simple and I was thinking of changing the question title to be about "large area" spells.

I dunno.

Medix2

Though I do wonder why you can't cast dispel magic on the actual weather effect. I guess that applies to all other Self spells, even things like spirit guardians and antilife shell

NautArch

@Medix2 Yeah, having self be the source is stating that the effect is on you. The effect lets you control the weather around you, but the effect is on you.

I should probably add that.

Medix2

Oh wait I have a thing on that

18

Q: Does Dispel Magic work on Tiny Hut?

Over the weekened one of my players stumped me when she made the claim that Dispel Magic wouldn't work on Tiny Hut due to these lines: Creatures and objects within the dome when you cast this spell can move through it freely. All other creatures and objects are barred from passing through...

dnd-5e spells

NautArch

3:49 PM

@Medix2 well crap

there goes that

deleting my answer

That's a really really good example

put up an answer @Medix2 :)

Medix2

I'm in the middle of some things rn, you can certainly go ahead if you'd like (I'd be quite a while)

NautArch

nah, i'm still thinking about it. There's something weird here and I'm just not sure about it.

Another way of looking at it is if you feel the weather is...off. Can you detect magic and know it's magic?

ah, no. Visible creatures or objects.

Yuuki

Isn't control weather technically someone objecting to the actual weather conditions?

Although I suppose that would be a visible objection and not a visible object.

Medix2

4:05 PM

Is weather an... object? (Not a genuine question because the answer should probably just be "Ask your GM!")

That said you would be able to learn that there is magic around and that it's not on a creature or object, which significantly narrows down your options

NautArch

@Medix2 i'm pretty sure weather isn't an object.

it's an effect

MikeQ

It's a function, so it could be an object depending on what language your spell uses

NautArch

29

Q: What is considered an object?

In the PHB, on page 193, the Use an Object action is described: Use an Object You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack. When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action. This acti...

dnd-5e objects

Medix2

Is weather "physical"? Uhhhhhhhhh

NautArch

but it is not discrete. It's composed of many many physical things.

And those typically don't count as a singular object

See Hellsaint's answer

AncientSwordRage

4:34 PM

@Medix2 It's a state or condition of the atmosphere, much like the darkness spell effects the state of the light level in it's area

10

Q: Can the Dispel Magic spell end a Darkness spell?

Here is the scenario: A warlock casts darkness (level 2) on himself, then a cleric casts dispel magic, targetting the "magical effect". Since dispel magic reads: "Choose one creature, object, or magical effect within range. Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends", the target is vali...

dnd-5e spells

Did previous editions of D&D distinguish between where the spell originates and where it is headed? A lot of spells have a range of self, but effect things other than 'self'

MikeQ

Yes, that's how line area spells (like Lightning Bolt) worked.

AncientSwordRage

@MikeQ so they had two range attributes or one wordy one?

Medix2

4e had things like "Burst X, Range Y" where you made a square extending X in each direction from a point within range Y

AncientSwordRage

4:52 PM

@Medix2 I mean more like if the spell creates a sword, it might have a range of self, but that doesn't mean you need to dispel on the caster but on the sword

therefore target of spell !== target of dispel

I'm coming from a PoV of Magic: the Gathering card game where it's much more explicit on the rules of targetting

Medix2

That probably comes down to how dispel magic worked is those editions more than anything else

AncientSwordRage

@Medix2 hmmm true, I'm just thinking it's not a very extensible system if you wanted ways of targeting spells

Medix2

Actually... I'm pretty sure 4e removed dispel magic entirely

AncientSwordRage

@Medix2 forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/4e-dispel-magic.465697

Medix2

Ah yup, found it somewhere else as well

Hot RPG Questions

5:01 PM

5

Q: When a spell asks for targets, can I choose the same target multiple times?

When a spell has multiple targets, can I choose the same target multiple times? Is there any general rule I can refer to? An example of ambiguity is the spell Steel Wind Strike: You flourish the weapon used in the casting and then vanish to strike like the wind. Choose up to five creatures ...

dnd-5e spellcasting targeting

kviiri

6:00 PM

@Medix2 4e removed or retooled lots of things but utility magic was probably hit the hardest. Which I think is not a bad thing, as it works well to make wizards and such feel less like universal adventure solution machines.

Of course stuff like that still exists, but it's never free and not tied to being a wizard or any class at all. Just your skills and having the appropriate ritual.

But hmm, I think Dispel Magic is there somewhere.

MikeQ

6:23 PM

@NautArch Another concern - and this is possibly due to my own DM faults - is that it seemed that the session was driving the players, rather than the other way around. I tried to make it sandboxy but the end result definitely felt more like railroading.

Glazius

@kviiri You're welcome! I try and uptick good questions/answers about all the systems from the back shelves and answer when I can. That should get more people asking, right?

kviiri

@Glazius Hope so ^^ keep up the good work!

Glazius

@Rubiksmoose Oh hey, speak of the devil. Good luck getting it together! How was the first run?

NautArch

@MikeQ I'm always worried about sandbox vs railroad. At the end of the day, sandboxes still let you choose a rail, but once you're on the track, you're on the track. There may be branches that a player is interested in taking and getting off a storyline, but they may opt not to do that for the obvious reasons.

Rubiksmoose

@Glazius Loved it! My favorite game that I've ever played I think. Of any system. And my players liked it too apparently because they all want to play it again.

MikeQ

6:31 PM

@NautArch I usually give branching choices, but pacing tends to be a recurring issue in my games. The players end up in a static situation, where the interesting thing is up ahead, but I haven't given them anything to interact with before that. So they'll just sit there and do nothing, and my only option is to nudge them into the next area.

NautArch

@MikeQ How are you providing a choice without something set up for when they've made that choice?

Or is it more "Oh, you want to go here?" and "Sure, we can go there" but you don't want to 'force' something there because it feels like a railroaded event?

MikeQ

More like, I've given them a choice between two paths, and they choose. Ok. But I've only detailed the stuff at the end of the path, whereas the path itself isn't very interesting. They stop midway on the path (knowing that something is up ahead) and wait. Static.

NautArch

I'm honestly having trouble understanding the scenario. I did have a migraine last night, so I know my brain is not running at full capacity ;/

MikeQ

Hmm, ok. Let's say the PCs choose to ambush a goblin camp. That's their choice. They approach the goblin camp undetected. Then they just sit there and do nothing.

NautArch

oh, that's weird.

i mean, if they decided to ambush the camp, then why aren't they ambushing the camp?

But I guess if they sit there and do nothing, just have the camp be a camp. If they get up and move on without a fight, then the players have to decide what to do.

But I guess odds also increase at that point of being discovered

MikeQ

6:40 PM

I'll then try to ad lib in a new choice for them, like "Uhh ok, so how do you approach?". And it seems (to me as DM) like I am driving the gameplay.

This has been a recurring issue in my homebrew content games, so I'm pretty sure it's due to my own style and design flaws.

NautArch

Oh! Gotcha. No, that's perfectly fine and I don't think it's indicative of you as a DM.

Nudging the players to make a decision is more than reasonable.

Maybe not "how do you approach" but "Okay, so now what? You've gotten X distance away unnoticed and you're observing the camp. They're eating and two are on guard."

or something like that

I don't think helping players understand their options is railroading.

MikeQ

Hmm. I suspect the pattern here is that the players are expected to take an active role (e.g. attack the unsuspecting enemies, go to the macguffin, talk to the waiting NPC) but when they are given "empty space", then the game halts if they choose to do nothing.

NautArch

But the specific scenario was them about to do something...and then not. It's weird for them not to actually do what they set out to do.

That's like saying I want to go to the store. And just stop when I get to the store.

There's a very obvious step i'm opting not to take (going into the store.)

MikeQ

Player styles aside, I think the design flaw is the "empty space". Like in a video game, when the room before a big fight is empty, in order to give the player time to prepare. And if the player just sits there, the game waits, and it's boring. It's not a great analogy but I think that's kinda what is happening here.

NautArch

Sure, but ultimately, the player goes into the room. If they don't go into the room, then why did they get to the empty room?

MikeQ

6:55 PM

So perhaps the solution here is to have the environment react if the players do nothing?

NautArch

Based on what you're describing, it's not the empty space. It's decision paralysis.

@MikeQ Well, the environment should always be moving forward.

So in your example, the bandit camp is doing their thing.

If doing their thing puts the player at risk for exposure, then you can play that out.

If not, then continue to describe the camp. But you can also ask them "What would you like to do?"

And you can always present some options. Attack/retreat/keep watching, etc.

Yuuki

@NautArch Is that why the golem keeps chasing me?

NautArch

They may come up with another one, but it sounds like they're wary to make decisions.

@Yuuki No, it's why you're always chasing the golem.

MikeQ

By "do nothing", that excludes strategic discussions. Spending time to discuss strategy is ok, because the players are engaging with the game.

So then the next DM challenge would be justifying why the environment suddenly gets to take an active role, even if the players have prepared against it. For example, if the PCs succeed at hiding outside the goblin camp, but do nothing, then perhaps a wandering goblin patrol approaches them.

NautArch

@MikeQ I'd probably start by reminding the players ahead of time that the environment moves on without them. It isn't a videogame where main story remains static while side quests are undertaken. And that the world has a life and may also react to their interactions with it.

But if you had said eralier "you see goblins patrolling the perimeter" or something, then you have set a stage for something to happen.

Yuuki

7:05 PM

@NautArch Animal Crossing resents this.

NautArch

Maybe they want to watch to try and understand the patrols. Only you know if they are in the path of a patrol.

@Yuuki Maybe more of an issue in games like skyrim, witcher, fallout, etc.

MikeQ

Yes, see, that's my fault as the designer. That particular area of the environment wasn't designed to move without them. So by doing this, while it improves the pacing, it risks the undescribed dragon problem if the environment starts to act in ways that hadn't been described earlier.

NautArch

@MikeQ But the key is in describing it earlier!

MikeQ

Sure, but unfortunately I don't have a time machine on hand when running tabletop games.

NautArch

If they simply blindly approached the camp, they may not have even seen the patrols (if you even had them to begin with.)

Well, you can't change the past, but you can do things differently in the future.

and make it clear to your players that you're making a change.

Yuuki

7:07 PM

I'm reminded of that bit in Chamber of Secrets (Harry Potter) where Ron and Harry come across a giant snake shed in the tunnels to the Chamber.

Even if they had ignored Hermione figuring out that Slytherin's monster was a basilisk, they'd know that there's some kind of giant monster in the Chamber.

NautArch

@Yuuki And how that reminded Harry he needed to buy a shed?

Yuuki

@NautArch Hey, there's nothing wrong with wanting a chicer she-shed.

MikeQ

Ah, ok. I think it might work if the environment can introduce things from off-screen. No invisible dragons, but maybe a dragon could enter from stage left.

NautArch

@MikeQ I think it's less about environment introduces things off-screen, and more that the world is dynamic. The camp isn't just waiting around, they're doing stuff.

I mean, maybe they are just waiting around, but then why are they waiting around? Usually folks waiting or waiting for...something.

Just be reasonable and realistic so that nothing comes as a gotcha when it comes.

howdy @VictorB! Glad you found the room :)

MikeQ

@NautArch Right, that's a better way to describe it. No sudden gotchas, but the GM can add unforeseen complications into a currently static situation.

NautArch

7:17 PM

@MikeQ Moreso that the environment isn't static. You can also shift things over to initiative order if that helps in these types of situations.

The importance of tracking time.

nitsua60

@MikeQ My go-to in situations like this is in the vein of "you came to ambush the camp, now you're within sight of it. Do you want to charge in guns a-blazing, or go around the perimeter to take out guards, or sneak in for recon, or something else?" State my understanding of why they're there/what their objective is, offer a few obvious choices for how one (in this style of game) might advance that objective, and leave the door open for other ideas.

NautArch

@nitsua60 and then the bulettes?

nitsua60

@NautArch No need to leave the door open for them. They come up through the floor.

MikeQ

@nitsua60 Yes, see, that's what I do, and the answer is "we wait"

NautArch

@MikeQ Do they ever say what they're waiting for?

nitsua60

7:26 PM

^^

MikeQ

Nope. I suspect it's just the players' cautious playstyle, or that they just don't want to be in the active role 100% of the time.

NautArch

Or you clearly need to homebrew a Godot monster.

@MikeQ I'd definitely just start describing the camp. And then either lead to something for them, or just have the camp pack up and leave.

nitsua60

@NautArch I might play a different game with them. (Based on this very small sample.)

NautArch

@nitsua60 spin the bulette?

Powerdork

@AncientSwordRage Compare the 2nd-level druid spell flame blade from 3.5e, an "Effect: Swordlike beam" (meaning: because the spell is cast, a new entity exists that resembles a sword) with a range of 0 ft. from the caster (rather than personal to the caster), which would be discrete from the druid but still exist in their space; since it has a duration other than instantaneous, it's very dispellable, but it wouldn't be subject to dispel attempts on the caster, only area dispels.

The Oracle

8:21 PM

3

Q: "Designer intent" vs asking specifically about the existence of statements from the designers

I'm looking in particular at the close/edit history of How can a wandering, destitute GURPS DFRPG Cleric cast high cost spells? The original question was asking explicitly if there was a statement fromt eh game designers on the particular topic. It wasn't "why did they do this" or "what were th...

discussion questions on-topic designer-reasons

Yuuki

8:33 PM

2

Powerdork

@Zachiel How's your Pathfinder game going?

AncientSwordRage

@Powerdork that's exactly what I mean

Powerdork

9:23 PM

rpg.stackexchange.com/a/164938/4576 it makes me sad to see that D&D is favouring a particular setting

Helwar

well, Forgotten Realms is the one that sells most, isn't it?

Yuuki

@Helwar So a bit of a misnomer, I suppose.

Helwar

fair enough

Hot RPG Questions

9:44 PM

3

Q: Artificier Resistant Armor Infusion

Within the Ebberon (ERLW) Text, the Artificier gains fanciful infusions. At 2nd level, you gain the ability to imbue mundane items with certain magical infusions. The magic items you create with this feature are effectively prototypes of Permanent items. One of these infusions is called Res...

dnd-5e artificer-infusions

BESW

9:55 PM

Kickstarter: NPC Tea: Volume 1 by Sarah Millman. Orcs, elves and fire summons running a tea shop in modern day Cardiff… what could go wrong?

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