TRPG General Chat

12:00 AM

well yeah but I feel like since they were in range when the spell was cast the second and later blasts should still be able to hit

Black Spike

"I Eldritch-Blast the foe who is 115' away. No Repel, thanks! I want to hit him again"

If you are thinking about multiple Blasts from One Casting, they are simultaneous. All hit the Target at 115' away

Himitsu_no_Yami

Oh? Is that so?

Black Spike

That is how I read it.

You have to make a separate attack roll for each, but they all go off as One Spell.

Disclaimer: I am not a D&D5 Expert. Your DM may vary. Warlocks void in Tennessee.

Himitsu_no_Yami

The thing is they're each a separate attack roll so I think my DM has been operating on the assumption that one blast goes, then another, then another since he's also allowed me to change targets mid attack if one beam kills the target

Black Spike

ah ... yeah, I can see that ... in which case you might have to take the rough with the smooth ...

Himitsu_no_Yami

12:05 AM

I'm dying at that disclaimer tho. "Warlocks void in Tennessee"

Black Spike

hehe

Hot RPG Questions

8

Q: Is changing concentration rules for 1h+ buff spells a bad idea?

I have noticed that many long duration (1h+) spells in 5E D&D have concentration, effectively meaning caster cannot cast other concentration spells while using such a spell (or end the spell). For example Barkskin and Alter Self. This seems to make many "buff" spells much less useful, possibly to...

Black Spike

Repelling Blast is optional, so you can still choose not to repel with the 1st blast, so target is still in range of 2nd

"Warlocks on the Astral Plane are More Evil Than They May Appear"

Himitsu_no_Yami

Yeah, I just wish it would be like "I hit with all three now push it 30 feet into that death trap" even tho it started like 110 feet from me

Black Spike

@Himitsu_no_Yami I would probably accept that. BUT you can't switch targets ... choose as you Cast. Over-kill is wasted, no swapping Targets 1/2 way

"Can push Target up to 10' away" ... so if target is at 115', 1st blast can push 4.9', so 2nd still hits, and pushed another 10' ... leaving them at 129.9' away ... teetering on the edge of the Pit?

Someone_Evil

12:16 AM

@BlackSpike Consult your patron whether eldritch blast is right for you

Black Spike

@Someone_Evil Your Patron's mood may go down, as well as up

Black Spike

12:32 AM

@Someone_Evil heh. I think my comment was wrong (And I wrote an Answer to explain)

I may not be a D&D5 Expert, (although I do play one on the Internet), I have approaching 40 yrs of TTRPG play experience, and over 25 years of doing battle with Rules-Lawyers, Min-Maxers, Munchkins and others, to have a go at grinding through What-The-Rules-Actually-Say, and also How-I-Would-Play/DM-It.

I'm not always right :)

Medix2

@Himitsu_no_Yami This seems helpful: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/88025

Black Spike

@Medix2 Useful find.

Someone_Evil

And on the topic of Repelling Blast and death traps (disclaimer: own answer): rpg.stackexchange.com/q/147706/52137

Medix2

I believe the range rule you were looking for is probably this line: "Once a spell is cast, its effects aren't limited by its range, unless the spell's description says otherwise." However, I'm unsure that that applies to EB. I at least would not allow EB to hit a creature that is outside if the range, ever

Himitsu_no_Yami

Can a familiar deliver part of a touch spell and the caster deliver the other part? I need to know for our game cus it's come up and I couldn't find it asked yet

Someone_Evil

12:46 AM

@Himitsu_no_Yami Spell in question?

Himitsu_no_Yami

Fly

Someone_Evil

I'm not sure, ask it on main

It might very well get a: ambigous, DM decides

Himitsu_no_Yami

Specifically my character is next to an NPC who needs to be able to fly and my familiar is next to two other creatures (not within my reach) who need to be able to fly.

DM has said no until I find a more conclusive answer

Black Spike

@Himitsu_no_Yami And you want to multi-target, some from Self, some from Familiar?

Himitsu_no_Yami

yes

One from self, two from familiar (upcast spell)

Black Spike

12:50 AM

My Viking-Hat is saying NO, but my That-Sounds-Cool is saying Yes! :)

Himitsu_no_Yami

But he's also shown his willingness to change rulings if we find an answer on here so I'll ask on main

Someone_Evil

Now I'm just imagining how awkward the logistics of a, say, 8th level fly is

BESW

An 8th level fly would be an unexpected foe.

Black Spike

<Kinda tangent> I'm going to take a moment to say how much I appreciate SO, after trawling some Facebook groups (android code) . Here, we have well-formed Questions, with Answers that state sources, and argue from Solid Positions (peers over rose-tinted spectacles). FB has blurry photos with "how is the problem? Send source code! Urgent!"

Medix2

Upcast touch range spells with more targets are.... Honestly a mess without the Sorcerer's Distant Spell Metamagic

MikeQ

12:56 AM

@BESW The flyswatter industry would go out of business

BESW

Because the level 8 fly personally wrecked all their factories.

Someone_Evil

@BlackSpike Downvotes, close votes, and delete votes have their function. It may not be ideal, but it is - unforunatly - necessary.

Himitsu_no_Yami

Question has been asked.

Medix2

If you feel that wasn't a duplicate, feel free to correct me @Himitsu_no_Yami

Black Spike

@Someone_Evil Not unfortunate. To have a Repository of Useful Q/A (such as @Himitsu_no_Yami 's DM is willing to use), it needs to be Curated/Moderated. There is a system (not perfect) that helps the cream rise to the top.

Hot RPG Questions

1:07 AM

4

Q: Can or can you not target an undead creature with the Atonement spell?

I have some undead PCs playing my game, and think it would be an interesting if they were given the option to atone instead of being outright destroyed if/when they run into a cleric of high enough level. The Atonement spell clearly states that the target of the spell is: "living creature touch...

spells pathfinder-1e undead targeting

Someone_Evil

I mean, ideally people wouldn't ask bad questions. And if they didn't, we wouldn't have to filter them out

Medix2

People will stop asking bad questions only when every question possible is considered good

In reality most people aren't going to go through the tour or check how this site works before using it, or at least, I doubt most people would, there isn't exactly data for it

Himitsu_no_Yami

@Medix2 That duplicate works fine, I couldn't find that one so thanks

BESW

@Someone_Evil I eagerly await the day when people figure out how to design a Q&A site that can be effectively curated without being actively rude and hostile to contributors who don't fit its expectations.

Black Spike

I've been through the tour. I've checked how the site works. I've written/deleted/rewritten Questions. I still ask bad questions (if response-rate is anything to go by!)

(Your Good-Question may Vary.)

Medix2

1:14 AM

@BESW Would you say RPG.SE is actively rude and hostile to users who ask "bad" questions?

BESW

Yes, because it's baked into the infrastructure of the Stack Exchange. The best the Stack Exchange can manage is civility, which it mistakes for kindness. We as individuals can be as kind as possible, but we're operating within an unkind system.

Black Spike

@Medix2 IMHO, rpg.so is one of the more friendly/polite stacks

BESW

And I do think that the user base of RPG.SE has done a lot of good work toward injecting individual kindness into the experience, I'm very happy about that.

Medix2

@BESW Rudeness is baked into the SE infrastructure/model?

BESW

Yup.

Jul 19 at 1:23, by BESW

The Stack's built on an unfriendly premise: that users are fungible creators of content whose value lies only in their accumulated and quantifiable contributions rather than any quality of their individuality.
All its coding and infrastructure, the value judgements that informed their choices at every level, are rooted in that disregard for the individual and that preference for the "wisdom of crowds" and the production of content which means individuals can be discarded when they are no longer useful to the machine.

Black Spike

1:19 AM

@Medix2 It has a Formal Structure, and any criticism of Users (Questioners) for not fitting with that Structure can be taken as Rudeness/Unfriendliness.

Someone_Evil

@Medix2 Ever voted to close a question as 'opinion based' and have to tell the asker to go somewhere else?

BESW

Mar 22 at 10:10, by BESW

If we want a Q&A site that doesn't treat users as faulty, incorrigible, fungible cogs in an ambivalent, supposedly morally neutral machine, someone will have to make something that's not the Stack Exchange.

Nov 13 at 22:56, by BESW

I've been on a journey understanding this, myself. When I first joined the Stack I was very excited about seeing what seemed to be a successfully curated community using mostly soft gamification techniques. So I threw myself into it and became and expert, which really changed my understanding of what was going on.

Nov 13 at 22:56, by BESW

And the more I talked with people who've been "in the trenches," like elected moderators and users who the system just isn't interested in, the more I saw the human impact of these philosophies.

Medix2

I'm unsure how to put this... Individuality is culturally valued and isn't objectively good. I also don't know hardly anything about what you're talking about since there aren't examples or facts listed but I'll take your word for it and trust that your experience has been real and at times unwelcome

Black Spike

As I say, much as SE is not perfect, I have walked the depths of Facebook, and am drawn back here! If you find your Perfect Solution, I'm all ears!

BESW

Sure, I'm absolutely there with the idea that individuality in the American sense is not a universal value. I'm not talking about that.

And no, I don't have better solutions. I'm not an Internet Community Designer, and this isn't a Stack-specific problem.

in Not a bar, but plays one on TV, May 14 at 20:23, by BESW

Yeah, it's not like this is a unique Stack problem. The idea of treating users as fungible content creators is baked into the modern Internet-based business model, and is a distillation of the wider "profitability is the primary good" paradigm of our economy.

Medix2

1:26 AM

For something to function efficiently it requires that each part be shaped for that efficiency. This means with anything if you really want efficiency you are going to have to change your users and discard then if they won't change. I agree it's a terrible goal, but if you want efficiency that's exactly what you'd do

Black Spike

@Medix2 I think that applies to any goal, not just 'efficiency'

BESW

Most of the conversations I'm quoting from are in response to specific problems, for example, why meta's structure leads to it being a h*ckhole:

Medix2

Oh no... Every single goal, if taken to be the entire and only goal, is bad. Actually... That's probably correct

BESW

Sep 6 '18 at 20:59, by BESW

The Stack Exchange devoted years to developing an interface and infrastructure to enforce an epistemology that values pithy independent responses to clear, precise problems. This interface and its accompanying infrastructure actively discourages discussion, ambiguity, and accompaniment.

Sep 6 '18 at 20:59, by BESW

Then they applied that interface to their space for discussing policies, identifying ambiguities, and accompanying each other.

There's been a massive ongoing conversation on Meta Stack Exchange for the last year, over whether the site can/should take actions to be more "welcoming" or "friendly" to people who don't fit the demographic it was originally but accidentally designed for.

Medix2

Hmmm... As a linguist I am all for ambiguity, and also as a linguist I've met an upsettingly large number of people who wish to rid the world of ambiguity.

BESW

1:30 AM

Sep 6 '18 at 21:01, by BESW

It's very telling that the Stack Exchange, having defined itself by its ability to hone an interface that creates a community, has put literally no effort into crafting the interface for that community's backroom.

Medix2

Mathwashing is probably my least favorite thing. (People designing a site saying it's fair and just and whatever else because it uses math and computers, but in reality the formulae driving those are already racist/descriminatory/etc...)

Black Spike

We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty - Vroomfondel

Medix2

Maybe I just have yet to experience these sleights and wrongdoings

BESW

Or we could talk about moderator burnout and how that's due to prospective moderators being told misinformation about the job they're volunteering for, and about the level of company support they'll get, and how they get no training for common high-stress interactions they have to handle without that promised support.

Medix2

Like... This feels like a discussion, with input and ambiguity and whatever else

BESW

1:33 AM

Yes, but this is not the space that the Stack Exchange dedicated to discussing policies, identifying ambiguities, and accompanying each other.

That space is meta.

Medix2

Well that sounds, well, awful (the moderator thing)

trogdor

yeah this space has really only been honed into what you see now by the people,... in it

BESW

And as I said above, the meta interface uses the mainsite interface, but the mainsite interface was designed to crush the kinds of conversations that meta is intended to serve.

trogdor

definitely not by some magic algorithm/wisdom/power/wtv of the site itself

Medix2

Yeah I've definitely seen a lot of complaints and essays about how Meta should not have the same design as Main

But also @BESW did that moderator stuff actually happen?

BESW

1:36 AM

So... yeah, the Stack Exchange is very good at accomplishing its goals. I eagerly await a new generation of Q&A sites that aren't satisfied with those goals.

Yes. Regularly, frequently, consistently, then and now and without foreseeable end.

None of what I'm saying is theoretical or speculative.

Medix2

Uhm, not sure how to put this

How can moderators still receive misinformation about their role and expectations and still not be told the amount of company support they'll receive? Wouldn't the other current/previous moderators already know the answers?

I feel like I'm missing something because that's just baffling to me

BESW

Yeah, it's weird how people can be oblivious to the problems with their situations, or be willing to overlook problems because they've been told its their fault and not the system's, or ignore warnings because the authorities are insisting it's fine or it'll change, or be fooled into thinking it's changed because of cosmetic-level alterations.

One of the trickiest things the Stack does for its volunteer moderators is tell them that they are each others' support base, instead of providing actual paid experts to support them.

This changes the conversation about support, because it's putting the blame for failure on the moderators and their fellows instead of on the Stack company.

Medix2

Well, okay yeah that just sounds like flat out manipulation and demoralizing of your own moderators...

Black Spike

Does SE actually make money?

BESW

Kinda like how Reddit tricked its userbase into thinking that no company-level moderation was a virtue because "free speech," when it was in practice just the company abdicating responsibility for the content it hosted.

Black Spike

1:45 AM

Obviously it costs money to run, and I hear of "owners" ... but I have no idea what "business model" it runs on ...

Medix2

@BESW That assumes companies ought to filter their content, not something everybody values

RedRiderX

@BlackSpike There's VC funding, but the job board and ads on major sites provide income,

BESW

(And to be clear, I don't think either the Stack Overlords or the Reddit creators are all actually being deliberately evil and manipulative. I think they honestly believe these principles justify the harm their neglect causes, or that the harm is less than it is, or that it's the fault of the users.)

@Medix2 I'd like to think that minimizing the actual harm one's company causes is a value most people can get behind.

Medix2

And then you have to try measuring harm caused by keeping something against the harm caused by removing it. Good luck

BESW

I'd like companies to do that, yes. I don't have the formula but "it's hard so we won't try" is a bad look.

Medix2

1:49 AM

There are definitely more clear-cut scenarios, but getting it into a formula or legalese description, at least imho, is bad

Black Spike

@RedRiderX ok thanks. (it's on teh internet. It's funded by adverts! :( )

BESW

Especially when it's accompanied by attempting to avoid accountability for the harm.

Medix2

Harm and hurt are inextricably human

BESW

....and?

What, people are gonna get hurt so don't bother trying to reduce harm unless it's obvious how?

Medix2

It makes me feel a formulaic definition of "allowed content" is a bad idea

BESW

1:52 AM

I'm not advocating that.

You're the one who brought up measuring harm.

Medix2

I guess I read too far into "I don't have the formula"

BESW

That was a direct response to your talking about measuring harm.

Medix2

Apologies then, just thought it was something on the table with the talk of minimizing harm

BESW

I'm generally against asking algorithms to make judgement calls. If a system moves too fast or is too complex for human judgement, the system needs to get changed.

This is.... not always easy, or even possible, in the short run, given our current state. But it's a principle of mine.

Medix2

I'd say it's a good one

BESW

1:55 AM

Going back to the original subject, reducing people to data is a major flaw in the Stack Exchange's design model.

That's where I'm coming from, when I talk about it devaluing the individual: it stops treating us like people.

Medix2

Just know that it's really difficult not to do that when your entire site is, er, a site

Though I definitely see what you mean and there could be a lot more done than currently is

BESW

Right. Like I said, I eagerly await a new generation of designers and services that are exploring ways to achieve those goals.

Medix2

I don't know that it's possible :(

BESW

And as much as the Stack Exchange is a useful repository of Q&As now, I hope that in the long run its greatest accomplishment will be to inspire people to think "I can do better than that."

Medix2

Wow, that was, uh, what's the word... Inspiring? Insightful?

BESW

1:59 AM

It'll be a long process with lots of mistakes, and in the end it'll mean a fundamental re-evaluation of what the Internet is. I'm looking forward to it.

Black Spike

@BESW I think they are probably already doign it. They're just not on our radar yet

The internet is still in it's very early stages.

BESW

@BlackSpike Weizenbaum started the conversation more than 40 years ago.

I just hope it doesn't take a tragedy to push computer science into ethical priorities, like it did with chemistry.

Black Spike

@BESW 40 short years. We're still moving, evolving so fast ...

Medix2

(What was the great chemical tragedy?)

BESW

The chemical warfare of WWI.

Medix2

2:03 AM

I mean, a number of the inventions were designed while inventors were under duress and explicitly didn't want to invent said items, but I see your point

BESW

In the aftermath of WWI, the entire catalog of chemistry education was re-evaluated to put a priority on ethical chemistry.

Medix2

Oh, chemistry education, okay yeah that did have a drastic change

Black Spike

Radio. Telegraph. Remote Messaging. add Transistors: The internet was inevitable. But what do we do with it?

BESW

Imagine if even a significant fraction of the people involved in Internet design had a functioning background in human ethics.

Medix2

I wonder how much we'd learn if the internet stopped existing even only for a week, heck, even just a day

BESW

2:06 AM

Also how many people would die.

Black Spike

I work in Tech Support. I see how people react when their wi-fi goes down. Modern Society relies so much on Tech ... a Global Failure would be ... catastrophic ...

Medix2

I mean I don't want that to happen

I mean I don't want that to happen, obviously I know people would die

Just helps put into perspective the reliance on tech

Black Spike

But the Internet was designed so there can't be a Global Failure? Multiple Redundancy? Re-Routing?

BESW

And then Amazon made the cheapest servers and rented them to everyone else.

Medix2

True true, it's pretty impressive honestly

Though Google did have that coding bug for a few hours however long ago that was

BESW

2:10 AM

Also... [rummages for link]

Medix2

@BESW At least some companies don't use those

BESW

> Telecommunications as a whole, which also encompasses The Internet, is in a constant state of failure and just in time fixes and functionally all modern communication would collapse if about 50 people, most of which are furries, decided to turn their pager off for a day.
https://twitter.com/mmsword/status/1200147947331043328

Black Spike

I've watched (from a distance ) my niece and nephew grow up (now in their early 20s). I now have a 3 yr old niece. Their world is so different from mine. And my world was so very different to my parents, who watched their parents go through massive changes ...

Medix2

I do hold issues with "most of which are furries" but otherwise a quality post

BESW

I got Internet in my house (56k dialup) when I was about 11. Broadband when I was 21.

Black Spike

2:12 AM

@Medix2 £5 says its true

Medix2

"The greatest challenge of any generation is admitting your entire generation was wrong"

Black Spike

When i was 11, I got a Sinclair ZX81

Medix2

Oh, I only take issue because of the public misconception of the meaning of "furry", especially when used in context like that where it's quite ready to be misinterpreted with the meaning that news/media often paste onto it

Black Spike

"The Media" will misinterpret anything that gets them headlines

Medix2

"If you don't read news you're uninformed; If you read news you're misinformed"

Black Spike

2:16 AM

One of my mates is ... probably not your average "furry". But he does have tiger-stripe tattoos, and a tail. And is one of my main sources of Modern (post WWI) Military History

BESW

That's why I follow @retrievans on Twitter, so I'm just entertained.

Black Spike

When the Zombie Apocalypse arrive, he's my go-to guy!

Medix2

@BlackSpike Yeah, certainly not the average, but good thing you've got your zombie surviving buddy

@BESW Thank you for the conversation earlier, and apologies if I came across a bit annoyed or misinterpreted some of your messages. I can see a lot of what you were saying and appreciate the talk

BESW

Yeah, no slight to furries intended. They've got some of the best-curated fandom spaces around.

Thank you for sticking with me.

Black Spike

So ... our Rolemaster game is on Seasonal Hiatus

Plan is we take some in-game downtime

GM told us we're going to get a party-wide "good thing" , and each PC will get a "complicated thing" ...

We'll have some input

Hot RPG Questions

4:10 AM

2

Q: What creatures give bonuses to Medicine rolls/checks?

I am currently using a Druid in a campaign. I want to know what creatures, if any, there are that I can Polymorph or Wild Shape (5e Druid ability allowing druids to transform temporarily into Beasts) into that either give bonuses to Wisdom (Medicine) rolls/checks (like Medicine +3 for example) or...

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Hot RPG Questions

6:11 AM

5

Q: Can a rogue make a Sneak Attack with a wand?

Rogues' Sneak Attack ability states "The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon." For purposes of sneak attack, is a wand a ranged weapon? Specifically a wand that can cause a ranged spell attack (such as Wand of Winter from Hoard of the Dragon Queen which can cast Ray of Frost). A rogue c...

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Hot RPG Questions

8:12 AM

4

Q: Would declaring a sworn enemy using an oathbow cause disadvantage when attacking with a spiritual weapon?

The oathbow allows you to make the target of its ranged attack your "sworn enemy", which grants a number of benefits to your attacks with the oathbow against that enemy. However, it also states: While your sworn enemy lives, you have disadvantage on attack rolls with all other weapons. Wh...

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The Oracle

2:38 PM

0

Q: Is There A Way To Find Your Own Stack Exchange Scrolling History?

My question is about a possible feature this site might have. The problem is that I've lost track of what I was doing on Stack Exchange this morning because I've been dealing with students, work, and family while also going through questions here. It's the second time this kind of thing has happ...

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Hot RPG Questions

10:12 PM

7

Q: Can a tiefling have permanent ivory white skin?

I am planning on creating a tiefling build for an upcoming game and I am wondering if there is any feasible way for a level 5 tiefling cleric to permanently have an ivory white skin tone?

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4

Q: What is dysfunctional, controversial, or negative about Epic skill checks?

I often see it said that the entire Epic Level Handbook should be dismissed as broken and frequently dysfunctional. However, outside of claims that the entire book is bad, I never see Epic skill checks listed as an example of something negative, controversial, or objectionable. The only near exam...

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heather

10:29 PM

i got my own copy of 5e player handbook for christmas

life is good \o/

Rubiksmoose

@heather Woohoo!

heather

@Rubiksmoose i'm always having to look up spell stuff for my character b/c i'm new so it'll actually be really useful :)

Rubiksmoose

@heather For sure! It sounds like a great gift :)

Mine is well-thumbed through as well.

BESW

Nice!

heather

@Rubiksmoose yeah, my uncle plays dnd so he got it for me once he heard i was in a campaign. funnily enough one of my friends got me a dice set, so i really am all set.

Rubiksmoose

10:34 PM

Very nice! Now you're running on all cylinders

heather

lots of dnd gifts all around - i got another friend new to dnd a dice set, and the friend who got me a dice set got a campaign planning notebook (she's a DM).

Rubiksmoose

RPG gifts are great for friend groups because most of the time the gifts enhance everyone's fun. Something you can share. It's nice.

heather

also it leads into conversations that reference all the campaign jokes which is always entertaining :)

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