TRPG General Chat

Gwideon

7:00 PM

oof

um I know dnd isn't exactly the most well liked rpg here

NautArch

@Gwideon i don't think that's necessarily true

MikeQ

Especially considering we have over 100 questions about it

Xirema

@Gwideon It's the most criticized RPG here, but I don't think that's exclusive with it being the most liked RPG here.

NautArch

Given how much we talk about it in chat and the vast majority of questions as well.

@Xirema And increased popularity is likely going to result in increased critical response. There's simply a larger population you're working with.

Xirema

@NautArch Indeed.

Gwideon

7:03 PM

also why are there two covers for it. Besides the collectors cover

NautArch

@Gwideon I'm gonna go with money grab.

But that's my feeling about the whole eberron 2nd book, anyway.

goodguy5

I'm dreading the day where 5e questions start to drop off and we get..... 6e, or pf3, or whatever is next. I'm not sure that I'm going to switch. 5e is so very "what I want my rpg to be"... we'll see, I guess

Gwideon

well the standard cover is different from the press images of what the cover was supposed to be

also I personally think 6e won't be that different from 5e

Xirema

@Gwideon I think if they were going to bump up to 6e, it would be substantially different. I think 5.5e is far more likely than 6e, at least right now.

Gwideon

yeah

Xirema

7:05 PM

If we go another five years and they are thinking about introducing a new edition, then I'd probably be less skeptical of the claim of introducing 6e.

Gwideon

I honestly really like 5e as it's very easy for me to add on to and to run. I can understand some of the boredom with it though.

NautArch

@Gwideon boredom?

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 he was having a bit of trouble breathing, and getting blurry/double vision. That's why he went to the doc. The thing was pushing on the area of the brain that handles that stuff

MikeQ

Yes usually a new version is for a fundamental shift in design goals and a total rebuild of game mechanics, rather than errata and modules

goodguy5

@KorvinStarmast oof

Gwideon

7:08 PM

@NautArch I've heard some people are pretty bored with 5e.

user15026

@KorvinStarmast I'm sorry ot hear that :(

KorvinStarmast

@DanB In theory it will be delivered to my door today.

NautArch

@Gwideon oh, haven't heard that.

MikeQ

So maybe for 6e they'll continue to simplify. Maybe it won't have races or classes or spells. Maybe actions will be replaced by a deck of cards. Maybe the rule structure will be replaced by interpretive dance. Maybe it won't have a DM.

Someone_Evil

@Gwideon I'm not sure 6e would be the solution for them. But there are a lot of other systems which might. (assuming that is the problem)

KorvinStarmast

7:09 PM

@Ash Thanks, Ash. Not the first friend I've lost but The Big C is one of those things that makes my brain go "unfair!"

NautArch

To be honest, I don't really understand 'bored' as a response to something as freeform as an RPG. I can get "I'd like to try something new", but boredom I have a harder time with.

Carcer

@MikeQ I mean, 1e -> 2e was pretty iterative, and 3e -> 3.5e likewise...

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast and it's one of those things where the treatment is nearly as awful as the disease.

Gwideon

@KorvinStarmast I'm sorry. hugs

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch yeah it is, and it was in TC's case. @Gwideon Thanks. :)

MikeQ

7:10 PM

@Carcer I said "usually". And 3.5 is part of 3, in a way

Someone_Evil

@DavidCoffron Not quite the same, but TIL: pareidolia is the word for seeing shapes in eg. clouds

NautArch

I haven't actually looked that closely at the warforged as a race, does anyone know if they updated it in for those with Wayfinder's with today's release?

MikeQ

Anyhoo, DND 5e's only been out for 5 years, and they're still releasing content for it, I don't think 6e is going to be announced anytime soon

Gwideon

@NautArch yeah. I um lost a family member to cancer a number of years and the treatment is indeed awful. i remember them just being tired and feeling awful physically alot of the time and um yeah.

goodguy5

@Someone_Evil yea. that's a fun one. The subreddit is moderately interesting, as well.

Gwideon

7:14 PM

It would be interesting if a hypothetical 6e shifted towards a more collaborative type game. probably won't happen

KorvinStarmast

collaborative in what sense?

Gwideon

@KorvinStarmast moving more towards a fate style of rpg based around collaborative story telling and less around mechanics.

KorvinStarmast

Ah, ok

Xirema

TBH I don't know if you could still call it D&D if you did that. You'd just have the 4e problem all over again, where the next edition changes too much of the spirit of the game and players revolt.

Carcer

that's a bit off-brand for D&D

Gwideon

7:17 PM

though i honestly believe some people would be really upset. I think dnd is always gonna be a mid level game when it comes to mechanical crunch.

NautArch

Yeah, I think D&D is about the crunch and mechanics. And I think there's more opportunity for collaborative storytelling in D&D than people actually use.

Carcer

D&D's mid-to-high on the crunch scale

NautArch

What it could use is more mechanics around non-combat encounters.

Carcer

there's certainly crunchier games but most games are fluffier

goodguy5

stumbled upon this answer regarding pronouncing hex numbers and it's a real treat:

10

A: How do you pronounce large hex numbers?

I've just been asking this myself, in English and Japanese. Since there doesn't seem to be any consensus I'll share the way I've noticed myself reading this inside my head. Update: Enheh made a great suggestion in the comments about the letter "A". Originally I had been replacing the sound "ay" ...

Gwideon

7:18 PM

Maybe it would have to be a new system i don't know. maybe do the ad&d and basic d&d thing

MikeQ

Conversely, 4e was still D&D, it just didn't flow like the previous editions. So 6e could have significantly different mechanics and dynamics from 5e. We don't know yet.

Gwideon

@Carcer Shadowrun is a good example

of something that is cruchier

anyways I was just thinking

Carcer

yeah, Shadowrun I would describe as extreme-crunch

Gwideon

I honestly love shadow run setting wise but the crunch scares people away

I do wonder where cyberpunk lands within the crunch scale? I've never played it so I can't really atest to anything

MikeQ

Speaking of crunch, if there's one system that could use a new edition, it's mutants and masterminds. Considered that it's built like D&D 3.5, and 5e is like the smoother and more approachable little bro of 3.5, I'd expect M&M to take a similar direction

goodguy5

7:21 PM

I mean.... theoretically, you can give inspiration to your allies.

And Matt Colville has a good describing something I'd been kind of doing (Though, obviously doing it way better than I do) where you use inspiration for other stuff than "advantage".

Gwideon

@MikeQ I've heard interesting things about mutants and masterminds. Why does it need a new edition?

goodguy5

@MikeQ I've always wanted to play M&M, but I always got the impression that I wouldn't like it.

NautArch

@Gwideon what do you mean by ad&d and basic d&D?

Carcer

M&M is interesting but complicated

Gwideon

when ad&d became a thing a simplified version called basic dnd was released alongside it.

Carcer

7:25 PM

the clue is in the A

MikeQ

M&M (both 2e and 3e) are difficult to get up and running because character creation is cumbersome, involving tons of math and spreadsheets and up front rules mastery

Carcer

yeah, it's a very front-loaded system.

MikeQ

It requires more rules mastery to create characters than to play the actual game. The actual gameplay is relatively simple, although it sometimes suffers the D&D 3.5 problem where overly complex/powerful builds can bog stuff down

Carcer

Shadowrun has a similar problem

the thing is I feel that problem's a hard one to avoid in a system which wants freeform character generation and reasonably complex/granular character representation

user15026

@KorvinStarmast Oh, for sure :(

Carcer

7:30 PM

M&M could be a system where power archetypes are actual classes and you progress in levels in those in that traditional advancement structure, but then it wouldn't be nearly as versatile as it is, and you wouldn't be able to use it to faithfully represent almost any comic book character you wanted

Gwideon

I'm not the biggest fan of extreme crunch games. I've been finding myself liking games with more fluff.

MikeQ

No no, I don't think class based superlinear progressions would work. If anything they could overhaul the power point system for char gen, and then use something separate for character advancement, like mini boons

Carcer

neither do I

goodguy5

@Gwideon Have you played Fate? Or anything with "World" in it?

NautArch

My local group (and me) tend to gravitate more to combat. I'm interested in trying out 4e or 13th Age.

Someone_Evil

7:33 PM

@goodguy5 Possibly excluding "_ of Warcraft"

Carcer

@Gwideon personally I love crunch but I am strange that way

Gwideon

@goodguy5 I have not but it's been becoming more and more intriguing to me. I've also been attracted to simpler systems. I like the idea of really simple rpgs that are super versatile

NautArch

But my group also isn't that into trying new systems, and definitely not for one-offs. So /shrug.

Yuuki

@Carcer People say they don't like Oops! All Berries, but I'm pretty sure they're delusional.

goodguy5

@Gwideon Let me see if I can find Slapdash for you.

bettermyths.com/slapdash.pdf

MikeQ

7:35 PM

@NautArch from what I understand, 13th age is similar to 4e but less videogamey and more focused on character narrative. I've seen the rules for both systems although I've played neither

The 13th age rulebook is also more coherent

NautArch

@MikeQ yeah, that's the one i'm more interested in. But can't seem to get enough interest locally. Maybe instead of getting a small group for the star wars 5e, i should try to do it for 13th age.

MikeQ

@Gwideon There's always Honey Heist. That's simple.

user15026

And it is super fun.

user15026

@Yuuki I guess I am delusional ;)

Gwideon

@goodguy5 Looks really interesting

MikeQ

7:41 PM

Golden Sky Stories isn't necessarily simple, nor versatile, but it's not as crunchy as other systems

Rubiksmoose

@MikeQ Yeah, definitely not as simple as you'd think it would be. But still very light on the full spectrum of things.

goodguy5

@Gwideon Yea, it's a good no-prep (technically I think it's 3-minute prep) rpg. suitable for "We were going to do X, but Jeff never responded and I don't feel like playing our real game" one-off shenanigans.

Rubiksmoose

I wouldn't consider it very versatile either.

trogdor

yeah I don't know about versatility

Gwideon

anyways i'll shut up

trogdor

7:44 PM

if you play GSS you are looking for cutesy pastoral friend making game XD

NautArch

@trogdor That's definitely not my local group :P

Rubiksmoose

@MikeQ I love Honey Heist. Such a good game if you're looking for something wacky and no-prep.

goodguy5

I've heard of Honey Heist.

trogdor

@NautArch tis fair enough

goodguy5

Oh yea! Bears!

Rubiksmoose

7:45 PM

@trogdor Either that or you very quickly become very surprised/disappointed XD

Gwideon

kids on bikes (which is a favorite simple rpg) isn't very versatile setting wise with RAW rules but it has a robust system that could be converted to a more generic type easily

trogdor

@Rubiksmoose lol

NautArch

@trogdor unless it's make friends and then kill them.

trogdor

@NautArch no, no way, uh uh

if you want to kill stuff play something else

MikeQ

Do note that any of these systems mandate a group talk about playstyle and expectations, in case players are accustomed to one particular system or style of play

Gwideon

7:46 PM

Though it lacks mechanical progression so it might be hard to keep things interesting mechanically over time

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Though, occasionally the friends you make are already dead

Gwideon

@MikeQ definitely

trogdor

@NautArch it's a lot of unnecessary work hacking GSS to be a game where you kill things :P

when you know, 5000 other games exist that let you do that

goodguy5

I've always wanted to play roll for shoes.

MikeQ

Additive numbers for long term character progression isn't necessary for a game to be fun over a long period of time

Gwideon

7:49 PM

I do get annoyed when I'm trying to introduce a new game to a group and one of the members of the group is like nope. At that point I'm like "dude you haven't even tried the game yet and you're just gonna leave"

anyone had that happen

goodguy5

I didn't play RPGs as a teenager, so no.

Gwideon

@MikeQ also yes that is very true

MikeQ

Occasionally. It helps to ask why. Sometimes they nope for good reasons or due to past experiences

NautArch

@Gwideon Are you trying to introduce the game to immediately play or is this in going over potential new games to play but not yet starting?

user15026

@Rubiksmoose giggles This is true. :)

Gwideon

7:50 PM

@NautArch going over games

goodguy5

Though, as an adult, when I want to use a different system, I usually try to plan it out ahead with the group.

Especially as DM. "Guys, I'm having a little bit of burnout and I'd like to do a night of something lighter, such as ____ or _____ or ______. If anyone would like to try running, they're welcome to, or I can do it."

user15026

GSS is very fun, as long as you are okay with taking some time to go over how it works (and remind each other when it's Wonder you're using and when it's Feelings.)

NautArch

@Gwideon Well, that seems somewhat reasonable. If someone has an immediate visceral reaction as 'no', then just move on to discuss the next one.

THe whole idea of wanting to do something different is to find something that everyone at the table is interested in the idea of. If there's something that isn't, then just move to the next option.

Gwideon

it's still abit annoying to me. I have a friend who is really stubborn and won't play anything besides dnd so yeah.

that's kinda why I find it annoying cause I've gotten it alot from them.

NautArch

Well, if it's dnd or nothing, then I'd just ask if it's okay not to include them in sessions where you want to try something new.

MikeQ

7:53 PM

Then discuss other games with your other friends

goodguy5

@Gwideon Is this the same problem friend as all of your other problems?

NautArch

Or ask them what systems they're interested in and let that guide you.

Gwideon

@goodguy5 yep

goodguy5

@NautArch I'm going to star this so edit it if you need to

MikeQ

Just because they're your friend doesn't mean you need to include them in all your activities

Gwideon

7:55 PM

i don't know why it always tends to be them i end up talking about them.

MikeQ

That's one of those geek social fallacies

Gwideon

I was really looking forward to trying the game with them cause they can be enjoyable and have some pretty good ideas story wise. we ended up playing without them and um yeah.

MikeQ

Yep, may be best to respect their decision and play non-D&D games without them. If they want to join later then that's different

Gwideon

I will have to ask them about fate though. It may have enough mechanically to get them interested. they're a very mechanics focused player so they tend to love crunch and figuring out builds and all that. I'm not super mechanics focused myself (I tend to prefer flavor over everything else)

MikeQ

Fate is very not crunchy

Gwideon

7:59 PM

true but it may have just enough to intrigue them. I really don't know.

anyways I've been wondering if anyone has tried to make an rpg with no GM.

MikeQ

Sure, those exist.

NautArch

@Gwideon chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=gm-less&room=11

Not an uncommon thread with options that have been discussed here :)

Gwideon

oooh sounds good

Xirema

Whelp, it appears my copy of the Eberron book arrived at my apartment. Time to wait out the rest of the day so I can go home and crack it open.

Gwideon

@Xirema be sure to let us know what you think once you do

trogdor

8:03 PM

@Rubiksmoose @Ash XD yeah ok you got me there

sometimes the friend is already dead like our game a couple days ago

goodguy5

sounds like you're getting sick. Was that a sneeze?

Y'know, it'd really be safer for everyone if you finished out the day from home.

Xirema

lol

Gwideon

My players (besides the one who comes up way to often) kinda treat my games like beer and pretzel games. they like doing funny stuff and all that and I let them. I'm kinda the serious storyteller that keeps them on track to a certain goal but yeah. it's an enjoyable dynamic. they get their fun and ridiculous antics I get my worldbuilding and storytelling.

and it just kinda works.

so yeah

most of my players like the fluffy stuff (which is part of the reason why I'm kinda looking for a less crunchy system to run after I finish up Rise of Tiamat). If spells and stuff didn't exist they probably wouldn't care less. They just like playing a character and um yeah.

anyways I'll shut up about this

MikeQ

That's fairly common. I've found most players enjoy wandering the seafloor, scavenging for edible debris, and occasionally taking shelter in empty shells

user15026

You're allowed to speak and have opinions, just because people don't always have a response right away (due to being busy or the room being quiet etc) doesn't mean you're not wanted .

trogdor

8:16 PM

^

user15026

@Gwideon I'm like that too, I like when we can be a little bit ridiculous in gaming.

Gwideon

@Ash it's not that I don't feel wanted it's just that I need to shut off my mouth or I'll keep rambling.

The Oracle

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Q: Should I change this question to something more generic?

This question and answer about Pathfinder 2 generated a lot more upvotes than I expected. I guess because it accidentally highlights a big difference between Pathfinder 1 and 2, namely in 2 you do not need any free hands to cast a spell. Now I am wondering if I should change the question to some...

user15026

That's fair, but the way you state it every time makes it sound like you're making yourself small, and like we're supposed to reassure you or something. If you're out of words, you can just...not type anymore :)

Hot RPG Questions

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So there are Winter, Summer, Spring, and Fall Eladrin, and I know it affects the Fey Step, but how? Also, could you make an eladrin without choosing a season?

dnd-5e racial-traits eladrin

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dnd-5e healing

Someone_Evil

8:19 PM

@Gwideon If you need to stop rambling, we'll tell you

Gwideon

@Ash okay

user15026

@Someone_Evil Also this :)

Rubiksmoose

8:44 PM

Looking at this MSE post (low-no drama) it is interesting to see how RPG.se's graphs compare to those in the post

data.stackexchange.com/rpg/query/1137761#graph

data.stackexchange.com/rpg/query/1148941/…

One thing is that our early votes seem quite strong still, but our late voting has been on a continuous taper.

NautArch

what does early vs late mean?

Rubiksmoose

> In this image the total number of votes is being split up in votes that occur in the first week after the post is placed and votes that occur after that.

NautArch

ah, that makes sense.

Someone_Evil

@Rubiksmoose Is that taper not just "recent questions haven't had that many late votes on them yet", or am I failing to understand the graphs?

Rubiksmoose

@Someone_Evil I'm honestly trying to wrap my head around them as well.

I'm in the "this seems interesting, now what does this mean" phase right now.

@Mark the absolute rate of voting. is for all votes in a particular month, and independent from the age of the question So it is the votes done in that month (and not the votes done on questions in that month). So it means that te votes being cast in a particular month is nowadays mostly on done on fresh questions. The old questions are not getting attention. Hvrdly anybody votes on questions older than 1 week. — Sextus Empiricus 7 mins ago

@Mark it shows the monthly voting activity. It is decreasing in time. But when we differentiate it we see that it is mostly decreasing in time for the votes being placed on older questions (an activity which has almost become zero). — Sextus Empiricus 1 min ago

From the OP, talking about the graph for SO.

Gwideon

8:58 PM

Um i don't quite get what the concern is

Rubiksmoose

I'm not expressing any kind of concern honestly.

Xirema

@Gwideon I don't know if we'd call it "concern" so much as "this is data we don't understand: what does it mean?"

Gwideon

hmmm makes sense

Rubiksmoose

I'm kind of suspicious though, are those votes really decreasing to 0? Have only 243 votes really been cast on older questions this month?

Admittedly I'm not nearly good enough at SEDE queries to double check OP's code, but it seems weird to me.

Someone_Evil

If I interpret our data correctly mean votes after 30 days have been on a steady, gentle rise

Gwideon

9:03 PM

I'm not the greatest at interpreting data so I think I'll just exclude myself from this conversation

Rubiksmoose

@Someone_Evil That seems to be what I see there too.

Pokemon Pun Fest

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