TRPG General Chat

kviiri

1:00 PM

@goodguy5 It's both

doppelgreener

@Someone_Evil probably lacks HNQ velocity: it's 30-ish votes in 28 hours not 30 minutes

Hot RPG Questions

2

Q: Can the Telekinesis spell be used on yourself for the following?

My rogue recently "acquired" a ring of Telekinesis. Can the Telekinesis spell be used on yourself for the following? saving yourself from a fall as long the fall distance allows you a standard action before you go SPLAT! (a modified feather fall spell) levitate yourself to reach a vertical dest...

goodguy5

@kviiri but why?

Idioms, as I understand them, do not make sense when translated.

doppelgreener

@goodguy5 that's a side effect rather than a defining trait

kviiri

That's not a general rule

goodguy5

1:04 PM

REALLY?!

one sec, to google

kviiri

Many idioms have indeed been adapted into other languages, although linguistic purists are usually quick to whine about obvious anglisms

goodguy5

Idiom:
a group of words established by usage as having a meaning not deducible from those of the individual words (e.g., rain cats and dogs, see the light ).

"___ is an upsettable housewife" seems deducible

kviiri

It's still not the literal meaning of the phrase

goodguy5

Then is your supposition that all metaphors are also idioms?

kviiri

I'm not sure what a linguist would say about that, but I think an idiom should be generally used

while a metaphor can be more ad hoc, tailored for a particular use

goodguy5

1:11 PM

I work with a linguist. I'll ask him when he gets in (around lunch, eyeroll).

@kviiri wait what?

wait a minute. we can also go speak with the lively bunch in english.se

hrm... though, it's possible there's a yet better chat

kviiri

@goodguy5 I don't really know how to explain it further. I think an important distinction is that idioms are a part of the language being spoken, and hence commonly understood despite their literal and figurative meanings being mismatched, while a metaphor has no such constraint.

I can't think of any good examples of English metaphors, but Wikipedia bails me out: Shakespeare's famour "All the world's a stage" is a metaphor, yet isn't an idiom (or at least, probably wasn't at the time it was penned)

doppelgreener

A metaphor is something I can establish on the spot: This room is a penguin. (I'd need to further explain what that means before it makes sense to you.) An idiom is already embedded in the language and I am not establishing it, I am just using what's been embedded already: This room is a goose. (This room is a silly oaf.)

In one I am saying the room is basically a penguin (the bird), in the other I am definitely not saying the room is in any way like an actual goose (the bird).

Someone_Evil

You can also have non metaphor idioms: 'Break a leg' means good luck, but isn't a metaphor for it

vicky_molokh

1:27 PM

Huh. That makes me wonder whether stable prayers are a subset of idoms.

kviiri

What are stable prayers?

Someone_Evil

"stable prayers"?

vicky_molokh

Like break a leg.

Or no feather no fur.

Prayers that are phrased the same way by many people in different situations.

kviiri

I've never heard the term before, I thought it literally meant a prayer that was stable (maybe like "Our Father" or something limilar that always uses the same words)

vicky_molokh

Well yeah, Our Father is an Abrahamic example of a stable prayer.

doppelgreener

1:29 PM

yes, break a leg is almost certainly an idiom

vicky_molokh

But I'm guessing Break a Leg in predates Christianification of UK much like No Feather predates it here.

kviiri

I wouldn't call Our Father an idiom, though, because its literal meaning is quite the same as its meaning as understood, even if it has a few kinks people keep debating

vicky_molokh

Well, I'm guessing (I could be wrong) much like 'No Feather', the English 'Break a Leg' is meant to be taken literally by the targets of the prayer, even though the human listening to it is meant to guess that it's a trick.

Carcer

this is some definition of prayer that I am unfamiliar with

vicky_molokh

Well, you say 'Break a Leg' because you want the petty and jealous gods who hear it to think that the people are already in a squabble and so don't bother making things worse, right? Or are such sayings serving a totally different purpose in Saxon land?

kviiri

1:34 PM

I think typically Western people don't consider wishings of good luck or such to have intermediaries, but I'm not sure sure if there's a historical difference there

Carcer

ah

doppelgreener

@Someone_Evil I've created a room to post questions like this:

RPG.SE HNQ Worthy Questions

Post RPG.SE questions that seem HNQ worthy to you but aren't, ...

vicky_molokh

I mean, that is the function of our local 'No feather no fur to you', and I've been told that the English 'Break a Leg' is essentially the same thing but in different words.

Carcer

if that is the origin I suspect that many (most?) using the expression don't actually know that

it is just The Thing That You Say in appropriate circumstances

Someone_Evil

@vicky_molokh The origin of the phrase is the Stage, where superstition would have it wishing some good luck would jinx the performance so you wish them basically the opposite

kviiri

1:36 PM

@vicky_molokh The origin of "break a leg" is, as far as I know, from a superstition that wishing good luck to an actor will jinx them and therefore it's better to wish them something bad instead --- ironically, of course --- but I've never heard this superstition involve spirits of any kind beyond the one who speaks the wish and the target

doppelgreener

@Someone_Evil yes, this.

and what kviiri said

it's just an ironic way to wish someone good luck in the theatre

Carcer

wikipedia suggests that the origin of the expression is mysterious and uncertain: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Break_a_leg

vicky_molokh

Huh. So close but not quite the same.

kviiri

The difference isn't of course THAT significant --- it would be plausible

Someone_Evil

@vicky_molokh From some quick reading (I've never heard 'Neither feather nor fur' before today) they have the exact same function (and much of the same logic)

kviiri

1:38 PM

Just a matter of whether the words have inherent effect of good or bad luck, or whether it requires a power to hear them and act on them

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener @doppelgreener if my message in there is not relevant feel free to remove it. Just thought it might be of interest.

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose close enough

Carcer

can the channel also being for posting questions that are HNQ but shouldn't be?

kviiri

Does anyone else have a superstition that wishing good luck to someone fishing is bad luck?

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener cool cool

doppelgreener

1:41 PM

@Carcer nope

Carcer

@doppelgreener not even on opposite day?

vicky_molokh

@kviiri No but I've noticed that from time to time Westerners are weirded when I wish them luck.

doppelgreener

that would be like establishing a room of good clothes, and putting bad clothes in there

kviiri

My parents told me it's because speaking'd scare the fish away, but for some reason, wishing someone "may your fishing lines be taut" is okay despite being lengthier :P

doppelgreener

@Carcer well if i did say you can do it on opposite day, you wouldn't be able to do it on opposite day

@Carcer You can flag those for moderator attention and we'll remove them. Our current criteria for when to do that is when it's hurting the interests of the asker:

5

A: When should a question be removed from the Hot Network Questions List?

When HNQ Harms the Interests of the Asker HNQ can give the asker extra visibility, but it can also result in answers that are missing some of the expectations specific to this sub-stack. It is a difficult question when the benefits exceed the drawbacks and vice versa. It's certainly not a welcom...

Carcer

1:43 PM

@vicky_molokh It probably varies in specific contexts, but (speaking from an English perspective) it is not my experience that there's a general superstition about wishing people good luck

doppelgreener

@Carcer there is not, it might just be a weird thing to say sometimes, when there's nothing needing luck. If I'm having lunch with my estranged sister-slash-nemesis, wishing me "good luck" (that it goes well or something) might be funny and appropriate, but if I'm having lunch with my darling sister-slash-bff, there's nothing to wish me luck for and "good luck" would be weird.

Carcer

I think maybe it feels a bit weird to wish someone luck in the absence of a specific reason - it's natural to wish someone good luck if they're about to go and do something difficult or uncertain, but not to just wish them luck in a non-specific sense

jinx

@vicky_molokh are you wishing these hapless westerners luck with specific things they are doing or just in a vague and general sense?

kviiri

In Finnish, a person who has been especially lucky can be described as "Fortune's mole" (as in the mammal, not the skin thing). In Swedish, it's "Fortune's cheese" instead

vicky_molokh

@Carcer Generally when one or both of us are about to go away and possibly do something else.

goodguy5

@kviiri then it seems like you're agreeing with me.

vicky_molokh

1:49 PM

And several times I saw people react along the lines of 'why would anyone wish me luck?' or the like. I don't think I've seen the same reaction from someone in the second world.

goodguy5

Now I'm very confused.

Carcer

okay

Someone_Evil

@kviiri In norwegian it's 'Lucky Pig' (heldiggris)

Carcer

you're either wishing people luck at confusing times when they don't consider that they're doing anything they'd need to be wished luck for, or all your friends are very self-deprecating

doppelgreener

Saying good luck can imply they need luck, which can work out to have a disrespectful subtext.
"I'm going to have a meeting with the manager now about project progress." "Good luck!" - implies there's something they need luck with, which may in turn imply the project's doing badly or something.
"I'm going to have a meeting with the manager now about our proposal." "Good luck!" - implies they need good luck with the proposal... when it's uncertain, that's totally appropriate.

goodguy5

1:50 PM

@kviiri Someone said that the Hotness Bot was a fickle mistress.
Someone else said something about it being an idiom.
I asked if it should be a metaphor, instead.
And I thought you said it was both.

vicky_molokh

@doppelgreener And yet wishing someone good bye seems totally fine. Shrug.

doppelgreener

"I'm gonna go play Mario now." "Good luck!" - Thank you, I need it, Mario is a merciless game.
"I'm gonna go do some drawing now." "Good luck!" - Luck doesn't factor into drawing at all, so that'd be weird tos ay.

Rubiksmoose

@vicky_molokh From my midwestern US perspecitve, we generally wish someone luck when they are about to perform a task that might need being lucky. I generally wouldn't wish someone luck just as a way general way to say "goodbye" for example.

Carcer

The Lucky Cheesemolepig sounds like something Drawfee would illustrate

yeah, good luck as a way to say goodbye is strange

BUT

farewell seems like it probably derives very similarly, and that's totally normal

Rubiksmoose

@vicky_molokh On the other hand if, for example, the traffic or weather was unusually bad and we were both talking about it, I might wish someone good luck as a way of expressing commiseration with the situation and hoping they make it through it.

doppelgreener

1:52 PM

@vicky_molokh Sure, that's just a farewell. You're not actually wishing them that their bye is a good one; "good bye" is a contraction of "god be with you". It's "fare well", "see you later", etc.

goodguy5

^

vicky_molokh

> god be with you

That sounds like exactly the kind of wishing-good-stuff thing.

Someone_Evil

"God be with you" isn't really that far from "Good Luck" in meaning, it's mostly a matter use case

vicky_molokh

It's interesting how these things differ by cultures, often with splitting hairs.

doppelgreener

@vicky_molokh most of that meaning has worn off, it's just "you are going and i am acknowledging that in good spirit"

(and it's polite, etc)

Carcer

1:54 PM

god be with ye -> goodbye is fascinating english

doppelgreener

@Carcer isn't it!?

Carcer

deriving from some guy who couldn't be bothered writing the full expression in letters and shortened it, IIRC?

doppelgreener

coincidentally it seems to have emerged approximately in the middle of the Great Vowel Shift

during the 1500s approximately

Great Vowel Shift

The Great Vowel Shift was a series of changes in the pronunciation of the English language that took place primarily between 1350 and the 1600s and 1700s, beginning in southern England and today having influenced effectively all dialects of English. Through this vowel shift, all Middle English long vowels changed their pronunciation. Some consonant sounds changed as well, particularly those that became silent; the term Great Vowel Shift is sometimes used to include these consonant changes.English spelling began to become standardized in the 15th and 16th centuries, and the Great Vowel Shift is...

Carcer

well, apparently generally from the abbreviation "god b' wy"

Someone_Evil

@Carcer Be careful with 'ye' in old timey language. In 'Ye Olde ...' the Y is actually a standin/corruption of a letter used for the 'th' sound

Carcer

1:57 PM

þ, yes

kviiri

@goodguy5 Isn't it both?

vicky_molokh

> Let's just ditch two perfectly nice letters and replace them with an ambiguous two-letter combo

-- some English reformer in the 1500s, maybe.

goodguy5

I don't think so.
Because the meaning is decipherable.

kviiri

@goodguy5 Decipherable, perhaps, but not obvious

goodguy5

Can I get a person English is not their primary language?

vicky_molokh

1:59 PM

Will tertiary do?

Someone_Evil

@goodguy5 I volunteer as a tribute!

goodguy5

perfect thank. what's your primary? (both of you)

Someone_Evil

@goodguy5 Norwegian

kviiri

I am ESL too (Finnish as primary)

vicky_molokh

Ukrainian and Russian.

goodguy5

2:00 PM

Roboten er en dristig elskerinne

Робот - непостоянная хозяйка

Carcer

@goodguy5 I'm sure there are some Americans in here. [HURR HURR HURR]

goodguy5

Robotti on hermostunut rakastaja

kviiri

@goodguy5 That means "nervous lover", lol

vicky_molokh

And here we get the perfect example of how the English word mistress can mean two almost opposite things.

goodguy5

(thanks @Carcer :P)

Unless your native language has a different metaphoric structure.

@kviiri that's not that far off....

Carcer

2:02 PM

The hotness algorithm is a nervous lover?

kviiri

But the translation argument doesn't really hold because my language --- and no doubt many others --- have indeed appropriated English expressions and idioms word-for-word. Anglisms

Someone_Evil

@goodguy5 What exactly did you put into, I'm guessing, Google Translate?

goodguy5

Sure, but translated (better than just via google), the sentence should make sense.

yea, google translate was the fastest option I had

vicky_molokh

@kviiri Are all of them really English ones? E.g. I'm pretty sure 'face control' does not originate from anywhere in the Kingdom.

goodguy5

Perhaps better would be "My heart is an ocean"

or "her eyes are a well"

that sort of sappy thing.

kviiri

2:04 PM

@vicky_molokh Not all of them English, of course --- it's just the best known case in my language at least

goodguy5

But in your native tongues, do metaphors work the same way?
"A thing is a different thing"

kviiri

Pretty much, yea

vicky_molokh

@goodguy5 I'm not sure I fully understand the question. What would be the 'same way' and what wouldn't?

goodguy5

@vicky_molokh What do metaphors look like in Russian?

kviiri

Or, uh, what's the English word... simile? Like a more explicit metaphor; has an explicit comparison instead of implied one

goodguy5

2:06 PM

^

Similes use the word "like".

"Her eyes were like a vast well"
vs the metaphor
"Her eyes were a vast well"

Both of which are Analogies.

vicky_molokh

@goodguy5 Similes are most certainly a thing both here and there. As are metaphors. But I'm not sure in what way they could be still a thing yet work differently.

Now, individual ones will of course not be translated 1:1, and usually not literally either.

Someone_Evil

@goodguy5 This roughly translates as "The robot is a adventurous lover(ess)" (adventurous in the brave/out-there sense). It caught me a bit off guard.

kviiri

One Finnish idiom is iisakinkirkko, literally "Isaac's church" but referring specifically to St. Isaac's Cathedral in St. Petersburg. Something is an Isaac's church if it takes seemingly forever to finish, but of course the connection is metaphorical

Carcer

it's fascinating seeing some of the language questions that pop up in HNQ from ESL speakers trying to find english equivalents to idioms/expressions in their language

goodguy5

I don't assume to know how languages with other roots work.
I cannot be certain that phrases in Chinese, or Cyrillic, work the same way that they do in English

Carcer

2:08 PM

"Whatever a Russian sets out to do, he makes the Kalashnikov gun" is probably my favourite

goodguy5

That is delightful

kviiri

I have described my research work as an Isaac's church, for example. Also works as a simile tho

doppelgreener

55

Q: "Whatever a Russian does, they end up making the Kalashnikov gun"? Are there any similar proverbs in English?

I'm translating a Russian blog post into English and got stuck with the proverb, "Whatever a Russian does, they end up making the Kalashnikov gun." (Humorously meaning it's hard or even impossible to get past established patterns of doing things.) Are there any similar proverbs in the English la...

phrases expressions idioms proverbs

that's great

Carcer

yeah that one

vicky_molokh

@goodguy5 Cyrillics tend to have looser word order and a lot more flexion that carries some info that's not easily packed in English (or maybe I'm just bad at packing it).

goodguy5

2:11 PM

But Isaac's Church is a building which has many current qualities. None of which are "takes a long time to build." That is a fact about a building but not a quality of the building. The idiom "st isaacs church" is nonsense to anyone outside

kviiri

There's also an idiom derived from a simile, täynnä kuin Turusen pyssy, "full like Turunen's musket" which originates from a guy named Turunen having been raiding across the border and bringing loot even inside the barrel of his gun

@goodguy5 The cathedral DID take a long time to build tho :)

vicky_molokh

E.g. Ukrainian 'документи розповсюджуватимуться' means documents will be distrubted, packing all that into one verb, as contrasted to English verbs which don't have a future tense ending.

Carcer

@kviiri that expression looks a bit risky in an English context

goodguy5

I'm glad someone else mentioned it

Carcer

I was trying to think of a way to point it out without being immediately and explicitly crass

Someone_Evil

2:14 PM

@Carcer Depending on what meaning of 'risky' you are using, I think it's just the work 'Musket' you're catching on

vicky_molokh

I'm still not sure if there's a neat way to extrapolate how such structural differences affect metaphors.

kviiri

I'm not sure if Turusen pyssy actually qualifies as an idiom because well it literally starts with "full" which describes the meaning

Figure of speech would be an accurate classification

Someone_Evil

@kviiri If you just mention a full musket, I would assume it's meaning loaded/ready to fire

Carcer

what's meaning is the expression actually used to convey? Being full of food? Something being overloaded?

goodguy5

I'm a big fan of idioms for drunkenness.

kviiri

2:16 PM

@Carcer Completely full, overloaded, stuffed

goodguy5

"Rounded like a shovel", being a favorite of a friend of mine from France.

Carcer

@goodguy5 which is great for English, because you can form an idiom for drunkeness by taking literally any noun and adding "-ed"

kviiri

@goodguy5 perseet olalla, "with [one's] arses on their shoulders"

goodguy5

@Carcer Englished

Carcer

hmmm... maybe you also need to add an adverb to it to get the effect

"utterly Englished"

"absolutely trousered"

goodguy5

2:17 PM

while hilarious, not conveying "drunk"

kviiri

I can buy these

goodguy5

"Completely and devastatingly computer monitored."

Someone_Evil

@goodguy5 'Tired and emotional'?

Carcer

I am referencing a michael mcintyre skit, anyway: youtube.com/watch?v=F2hyB_Eg6q8

goodguy5

@Someone_Evil what? drunkenness. y'know. being drunk. inebriated

kviiri

2:19 PM

Does English have terms for the "cheerful" up-swing and the "tired" down-swing parts of drunkenness?

Carcer

@kviiri Assuming that you don't just mean the distinction between "drunk" and "hungover"

Someone_Evil

@goodguy5 A term used (previously) used by jounalists to describe drunk people (to get around libal laws). Not used anymore because the actual meaning is now widely known.

goodguy5

ohhhh. didn't know that

kviiri

@Carcer No, I mean the part where one is still drunk but feeling tired or moody because of it (instead of easy going)

goodguy5

eh.... kind of? they're more attributed to certain types of people or drinks.

Some people say "drinking makes me sleepy" or "whiskey makes me rowdy"

Carcer

2:20 PM

I can't think of any terms for that but then again I'm straight edge and don't go out so I'm relatively unlikely to be exposed to such

goodguy5

Excellent idiom use! "straight edge"

Carcer

Yeah, I think we tend not to differentiate that into stages of drunkeness but suggest that people get drunk in different ways, or based on different kinds of alcohol

you'd categorise someone as a cheerful drunk or an angry drunk, for instance

kviiri

@goodguy5 Interesting, here they're considered distinct parts/phases of inebriation. They're called, roughly translating, "upwards inebriation" and "downwards inebriation"

Carcer

kviiri: maybe English binge drinking culture means that people pass out before they get to the tired drunk bit

goodguy5

@kviiri my favorite yoga poses (the joke being "upwards facing dog" and "downwards facing dog", if it doesn't translate well)

Carcer

2:24 PM

and therefore we have no use for such an expression

kviiri

@Carcer That was supposed to be a Finnish thing! But I'm glad to say that stereotype is not really tangibly present anymore

Carcer

@kviiri hooray! Another aspect of foreign culture stolen and appropriated by the empire

Someone_Evil

@kviiri Interesting. Remind me to adjust my stereotype at some point.

Carcer

the only stereotype about Finns that I have is drawn from SaTW, i.e. Finns are alcoholic loners predisposed to violence

goodguy5

SaTW?
And WOAH

kviiri

2:27 PM

That's the traditional one, yep

Carcer

Scandinavia and The World

goodguy5

ah

Carcer

issa webcomic if you're not familiar with it

goodguy5

figured it out

Is Finland the one with the giant booze dogs?

doppelgreener

what's this about giant booze dogs?

Carcer

2:28 PM

Finland is the one wearing a hat and carrying alcohol and (frequently) a knife

Someone_Evil

Out of interest, what does that one (or other sources) give about Norway/norwegians?

kviiri

Norway is one of the kind, easy-going, fashionable guys iirc

Carcer

Norway and denmark are laid back dudes yes

Sweden is a bit more uptight

kviiri

The one Finnish stereotype I do embody is the love of sauna, and I guess the love of my language

goodguy5

The Saint Bernard's with the little cask around their necks?

I looked it up. Switzerland.

kviiri

2:32 PM

Oh yeah we don't have those, you have to carry your own liquor

Someone_Evil

@kviiri Which we are given to believe is common. Yes?

Carcer

stereotypically at least

though I profess to have been friends with two finns in my life and neither seemed to be an alcoholic

possibly in the latter case because an alcohol addiction would require too much money for him to be able to afford his skydiving addiction

kviiri

Yeah I don't think it's really as common as some'd say

It's a silly self-deprecating meme we're fond of

Hot RPG Questions

4

Q: Do these creatures from the Tomb of Annihilation campaign speak common?

There are some creatures in the plot of ToA that my players will interact with. The problem is that their stat block says they speak only their specific language, which my players don't speak. Is it possible for them to speak Common? Would I break some hidden or future plot point if I allow t...

dnd-5e lore forgotten-realms languages tomb-of-annihilation

goodguy5

Which is funny to me, because I have never considered Finns as drinkers. If you asked me to make a list of 10 stereotypical drinking nations, Finns wouldn't make it.

Carcer

2:41 PM

oh right!

I do have a second stereotype about Finland!

most of you are employed as musicians in various kinds of metal band, right?

goodguy5

In no order, the countries I think of when I think of drinking

Russians, Germans, Irish, Americans, French, Italians, Norwegians....

Poland? Ukraine? Mexico?

kviiri

@Carcer Yeah

Carcer

see also: i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/284/808/abb.jpg

kviiri

I could literally say "only some of my friends" to this

Carcer

@goodguy5 the UK doesn't even make that list? I'm pretty sure we are statistically more alcoholic than the rest of europe

doppelgreener

2:43 PM

@goodguy5 ooh, right

goodguy5

@Carcer maybe, but you're also so posh about it. You drink "quietly"

Honorable mention to the Dominican Republic because of mamajuana (no, not that).

Wood-aged wine... cocktail? thing?

Carcer

@goodguy5 oh dude no

goodguy5

oh man, I love mamajuana

Carcer

the whole posh stiff upper lip received pronunciation english upper class stereotype is confusing because it has almost no relevance to reality anymore

the binge-drinking football hooligan is much closer to reality

goodguy5

@Carcer congratulations, you just described sterotypes

Someone_Evil

2:47 PM

@goodguy5 Where is the Norwegian stereotype coming from here? Have you seen the cost of alcohol in this country?

goodguy5

@Someone_Evil Vikings. When I think "people that can drink", I think Vikings.

Carcer

I suspect that the former stereotype doesn't survive for very long anywhere that english football fans go, though

Someone_Evil

@goodguy5 Ahh... Horned-helmet, beer-quaffing lunatics might be a slightly outdated depiction of norwegians (also historically inaccurate on the horn-thing, but that's a different matter)

kviiri

I mostly think of Norwegians as Swedes minus IKEA plus oil

And I know there's been a spelling reform ongoing since last century!

And the language is somewhere between Danish and Swedish for maximum Scandic interoperability

Carcer

I think of norwegians as my aunt. Because I have a norwegian aunt and she's the only norwegian I know

kviiri

2:54 PM

Which is kinda neat. And there's fish, right? Lutefisk? And fjords

Carcer

this conversation has been going long enough that it is now mandatory to mention Stand Still Stay Silent

you invoked it by bringing up language interoperability

kviiri

Yay

...I guess? :D

Someone_Evil

@Carcer Unfamiliar

kviiri

Oh yeah, I know this one

Carcer

@Someone_Evil sssscomic.com

it's a good comic

the language thing is an important detail because it affects which of the characters can actually understand each other. There's a guy who only speaks Finnish and therefore has no idea what the rest of them are on about most of the time

kviiri

3:06 PM

I haven't actually read that ever, I only saw excerpts posted on some forum but only much later figured out what it's called

Better late than never I guess

Carcer

it's good! It also doesn't have a massive insurmountable backlog or anything

kviiri

That's a plus in my books ^_^

I seldom get into works I fear might just keep going and going...

Thanks for linking it, I think I'll enjoy this

Now to prepare tea because my brother'll be here soon

Carcer

I like the way it indicates language often by putting little country flags in the speech bubble

kviiri

5:04 PM

Back

Brother enjoyed tea :)

Hot RPG Questions

5:17 PM

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Q: Is your maximum jump distance halved by grappling?

Here are the rules about Jumping : Your Strength determines how far you can jump. Long Jump. When you make a long jump, you cover a number of feet up to your Strength score if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump. When you make a standing long jump, you can leap ...

dnd-5e movement grapple

KorvinStarmast

@Someone_Evil When I worked in NATO, I discovered that there were two groups of people who you don't try to keep up with when drinking. Norwegians and Russians. (We were doing some Partnership for Peace stuff with Russians in the 90's). Not sure how my Norwegian colleagues developed their amazingly powers of handling booze, but it was there.

nitsua60

5:37 PM

@KorvinStarmast Proximity to Russia, maybe?

Someone_Evil

Ok, I guess I havn't got the best perspective on this. I just havn't got the image of us (norwegians) as heavy drinkers, that's all

@nitsua60 That should arguably mean the swedes are worse

nitsua60

@Someone_Evil I don't know that they aren't... =)

(The only Swedes I've known are high school students. They weren't very big drinkers, given they didn't want to get expelled.)

Someone_Evil

@nitsua60 They were excluded from both (admittedly short) lists of heavy drinking nations presented for what that's worth

KorvinStarmast

5:54 PM

@nitsua60 Alcohol as anti freeze? No idea, and yes, my evidence was anecdotal, but there you have it.

kviiri

There's this really old Finnish PSA (older than me --- they were already a bit out of fashion during my childhood) where there's a crudely stop-motion animated bottle of booze. "If you drink, stop in time," the narration says as the liquor drains from the bottle, revealing a blade, "so that you wouldn't regret," the narration continues and the liquor drains further revealing the rest of a knife

Based on what I hear that matches the stereotype quite well

when the bottle is completely empty the knife breaks the bottle from within. "Leave the violence in the bottle!" the narration concludes.

Sir Cinnamon

Oh man are we talking Kids PSA commercials? Canada has some wild ones

Someone_Evil

PSAs from other cultures can very often seem odd because you're not familiar with the references/boundaries, but that seems particularly grim

Sir Cinnamon

"Don't you put it in your mouth" (puppets singing a song about not drinking chemicals)
"North American House Hippo" (A PSA about not believing everything you see on tv that failed spectacularly by convincing a whole generation in a fictional species)

I also recall one about a robot losing his arm in some machinery and basically saying "I can get a new one. You cant. Don't play with.. giant machinery"

Yes im correct and its better than I remembered youtube.com/watch?v=Km4f-eRE4Kc

Someone_Evil

@SirCinnamon What I find oddest about that is it being from 'The War Amputees of Canada', implying that you should play safe in war which isn't quite grounded as an idea

Sir Cinnamon

6:07 PM

@Someone_Evil Yeah i'm not sure what the... lesson is even supposed to be. Don't lose limbs for any reason I guess

Someone_Evil

@SirCinnamon Be aware that (a lot of) machines can cause loss of limbs and so be careful with them, I guess

Sir Cinnamon

@Someone_Evil Especially indiana jones level trap dungeons of gears and blades

kviiri

@SirCinnamon This was more for adults than for kids, but man, we have a legendarily spooky one for kids too. Basically our traditional PSA topics are thin ice, driving safely and moderation in alcohol --- so the kids usually got only the first kind since they don't drink or drive yet

Someone_Evil

While it might appear obvious, videos of people handling fireworks (and other explosives) on the internet kinda proves it not to be

Sir Cinnamon

Oh man the CCA - Concerned Childrens Advertisers has a youtube channel. This is almost ALL the PSAs of my childhood youtube.com/channel/UCk_O3RYGyLzG986AFvUVMbQ

kviiri

6:11 PM

I actually posted a short story about it in chat not too long ago, basically it was this PSA that would air with little/no warning at the end of an otherwise serene variety program for kids

Apr 26 at 7:23, by kviiri

So there's this children's program from something line the 1970's

(starting from there)

What's the correct English term for a TV program that's composed of short "host bits" between other programming? eg. in the case of that one, the host'd do crafts, sing, tell a story or something, and then introduce the upcoming children's program that was usually something with a 5-10min episode.

Someone_Evil

I just realized that depending on your frame of reference 'Whale Barding' could be taken to mean 'seducing overweight people'.

goodguy5

uh....

variety hour?

Someone_Evil

Yes, variety hour or show seems right

kviiri

Thanks!

Someone_Evil

Or actually, is it one continuous show or bits between other shows?

goodguy5

6:21 PM

I can't think of a name that would suit
Main show, broken up by random bits of mini shows.

kviiri

@Someone_Evil It's usually scheduled as one continuous show on TV schedules, and has its own intro and outro, but includes other, unrelated children's shows

GcL

@goodguy5 like flying circus? sketches knit together by brief host or narrator interlude?

goodguy5

yea

kviiri

Flying Circus was knit together by something but it was quite inconsistent regarding what it was

(which was a part of its charm I'd assume)

doppelgreener

@kviiri general nonsense

kviiri

6:26 PM

(by "unrelated children's shows" I mean they were usually not produced specifically for Pikku Kakkonen but occasionally were)

GcL

Sounds like a variety show

Someone_Evil

@doppelgreener gives stiff salute Major Confusion.

doppelgreener

@Someone_Evil him as well

Both could be found in the Monty Python script-writing room and were each available for consultation two hours a week at appointed times

Yuuki

@Someone_Evil Corporal Punishment?

kviiri

@Yuuki was actually an episode name of Blackadder Goes Forth

Along with Private Plane and General Hospital, and can't recall what else

Yuuki

6:41 PM

Ensign Outsign?

KorvinStarmast

7:05 PM

whomever posted the link to SSSS, thanks. Interesting comic.

goodguy5

7:19 PM

ugh, I hate number crunching.

My wife asked me to see if we could support her working part time

Yuuki

@goodguy5 I prefer number leg raises myself.

goodguy5

🙄

Yuuki

@goodguy5 That's the bare minimum, you should be supporting her all of the time.

goodguy5

/groaning/

Xirema

@goodguy5 Better go to the gym, work on that core strength.

Yuuki

7:27 PM

@Xirema That's why he's number crunching.

KorvinStarmast

@Carcer ah, it was you. Thanks for the SSSS link.

goodguy5

I'm sure that if I didn't have to pay my mortgage, we'd be fine

MikeQ

Superhuman Samurai Syber Squad?

I've been meaning to find a good tokusatsu / super sentai TTRPG

goodguy5

ugh, I'm mostly just finding out that I need to go to the bar less

MikeQ

7:43 PM

Yes I imagine goodguy jr would be asked to show some ID if you went

goodguy5

nah, goodbaby5 usually goes with me; it's a brewpub afterall

and in my defense, the wife often goes with.

hrm... ."weirdly" I've spent more on beer since the baby arrived...

GcL

@goodguy5 I do dislike that realization, but it's a wise conclusion to arrive at.

kviiri

8:03 PM

@MikeQ "Don't worry, he's the designated driver"

Carcer

@KorvinStarmast you're wielcame

MikeQ

8:22 PM

@kviiri As a former baby, I can confirm that is a valid strategy

Xirema

8:56 PM

Could we get some extra pairs of eyes on this question? The highest voted answer [Disclosure: mine] has a mixed vote score summing to 0, and there's two other answers with negative scores. Clearly, there's been some disagreement over how to resolve these rules.

TBH, I'm not even certain my answer is correct; only that it's less incorrect than the other two answers. =P

Rubiksmoose

I'm honestly not sure what I agree with more here...

Fantastic, now everybody is negative lol

Xirema

There's two answers I *nominally agree with*, am not sure which I think is more true:

* The druid, because they gain proficiency as a consequence of the *Wild Shape* feature, substitutes their normal Proficiency bonus to any skills the creature is proficient in, regardless of whether the creature has *Expertise* (or some equivalent feature) or not; UNLESS the creature has a higher overall bonus.
* The Druid gets *Expertise* in any skills the beast has *Expertise* in, and adds double their proficiency bonus; UNLESS the creature has a higher overall bonus.

Rubiksmoose

@Xirema That all looks very reasonable. Maybe once I get some food in me and my brain revives a bit I'll see about voting on one of them.

@Xirema fwiw, I do agree with @Someone_Evil in that using "Expertise" is probably not the best way to do things. It would likely not change my vote if I had one, but I think using different terminology would be good here.

obviously it's completely your call whether or not that matters to you

Xirema

9:16 PM

Yeah, I think I'll reword it; though I do maintain that some use of the word is appropriate given its presence in that blurb in the Monster Manual. Definitely gonna restructure though.

Rubiksmoose

I mean yeah I made the same argument in support of the original question using it as well. But we ended up changing that wording because of confusion. I wouldn't want your answer being adversely affected by the same thing.

Xirema

@Rubiksmoose Too late, lol

BESW

"Your Magic Circle." This is a game(?) about magic circles and how we create magical spaces of play.

Rubiksmoose

@Xirema better late than never? lol

BESW

Magic Circle thread.

Someone_Evil

9:21 PM

Is there seriously no section in the MM that explains that Creature bonus etc. need not follow the same rules as for players? I guess they are supposed to, but a couple of beasts have weird non-consistent attack bonuses

Rubiksmoose

@Someone_Evil as far as I'm aware, there is indeed not.

Xirema

@Someone_Evil First thing I tried to search for. I know of very specific exceptions, where creatures have unexpectedly low/high attack bonuses, but there's no specific rule that says "a creature might have an extra +3 to their stealth checks, just because". It's pretty much always tied to their hypothetical Proficiency Bonus, with a table in the Monster Manual suggesting what a creature's proficiency bonus ought to be, given a specified Challenge Rating.

Someone_Evil

It's mostly a thing with CR0 creatures which noone is gonna look at too hard, but a bat has Str 2 and Dex 15, so its bite attack should have -2 or +4 to hit. It has +0. So does a bat use its Strength and has 'expertise' in biting then?

@Xirema Is there any cases (that haven't been errata'd away) of a arbitrary bonus that isn't the doubling of proficiency?

Xirema

@Someone_Evil Not that I'm aware of. In fact—I can't remember which creature it was—there's at least one creature I've seen where an explicit +X bonus to their Attack/Damage rolls was specified as an explicit feature of the creature, something like "Enchanted Weapons" or some similar concept. Something that could be explicitly removed under certain combat circumstances.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching product name in body (98): Feature given by class is already given by race. What to do RAW? by Cesar Hernandez on rpg.SE

Someone_Evil

9:29 PM

@Xirema Solars, Plantars, bugbears

Xirema

@SmokeDetector False Alarm.

@Someone_Evil What are you seeing on the Solar statblock?

Someone_Evil

Were you not referring to the Angelic Weapons type feature?

Xirema

@Someone_Evil I was thinking more like Flat Bonuses, i.e. "this creature gains +1 to their attack rolls if they're using this weapon..."

Someone_Evil

Ah.. my bad

Xirema

9:43 PM

I am suddenly very worried we're about to have the "Saber-Toothed Tiger Proficiency is not the same thing as Druid Proficiency" Semiotics argument, i.e. "there's a difference between Cleric!Cure Wounds and Druid!Cure Wounds and [Celestial] Warlock!Cure Wounds", like they're completely different spells.

So..... joy.

BESW

@Xirema ...something else 5e didn't learn from 4e.

Xirema

(Beginner's Guide for why that's a bad argument: if there's a difference between cleric-cure-wounds and celestial-warlock-cure-wounds, then why can both characters pick up a Scroll of Cure Wounds and cast it?)

BESW

(4e was generally REALLY good about being clear about those sorts of things, but there was this one case where a particular Druid variant had access to a Cleric spell as a Cleric spell, making it eligible for anything that had Cleric spells as a pre-req without also requiring being a Cleric, and that was messy because everything written before the Druid variant had assumed "can cast this spell" implied "is a Cleric.")

Xirema

@BESW FWIW, the only scenario I know of off-handedly where that kind of semiotics matters is that infuriating question from a while back about whether a multiclassed Bard/Celestial Warlock could take the Boon of Spell Mastery for the spell Cure Wounds if they learned Cure Wounds as a Bard but not as a Warlock.

BESW

(And the kicker is, the 4e Cleric spell in question was also the Cleric's iconic and class-defining healing power.)

Xirema

9:51 PM

And pretty much every answer [that got positive votes] hinged on the logic that a bard-cure-wounds spell was different to a celestial-warlock-cure-wounds spell, and therefore ineligible.

And in retort, I say: Spell Scrolls.

The Oracle

10:03 PM

0

Q: How was this question bumped to the top of the home page?

"How many times do you roll damage for Magic Missile?" was bumped to the top of the home page today, and a note underneath the question on the home page states that it was modified today by mattdm. But the change logs of the question and both answers do not indicate any edits today. So what was c...

discussion editing

trogdor

10:56 PM

Warlocks get healing spells?

I wish that was a thing in 4e, then I could have been just completely insufferable

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