TRPG General Chat

The Oracle

00:05

0

Q: Partial answer deleted as not an answer re: Medieval law and a tabletop role-playing game

In the following question: Does Common Law apply to Nobles? The OP asks about applying a certain section of medieval law to the Warhammer Fantasy setting. I understood this to be a question about applying real-world medieval law, as otherwise there would be no need to specify: "Does this apply ...

KorvinStarmast

@Joshua Orpheus

trogdor

01:20

@doppelgreener XD

Shalvenay

01:59

hey again @nitsua60

nitsua60

02:21

@Shalvenay Hiya.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 now a good time for us to pick up our convo on Discord for a bit? we kinda left off in the middle, or so it seems to me

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Not for me, sorry... was just about to head off to bed after a looong weekend.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 ah, drat, ttyl then

nitsua60

Have a good night!

MikeQ

02:37

@nitsua60 I suppose we'll have to save the Great Ork Gods one-shot for another rainy day?

Shalvenay

03:20

hey there @V2Blast, how're things going?

V2Blast

Not bad... though I have to wake up at 6 am tomorrow for a 6:30 am Skype call for work

Shalvenay

ah

V2Blast

then need to go to an offsite place (another company near my office) at 8 am to basically provide support with a product

The Oracle

11:27

2

Q: 'We do not enforce style' - how to react to discrepancies between policy and reality?

I've seen it repeatedly Officially Declared that 'we' do not enforce styles, and do not do trivial changes that have zero effect on clarity. And yet in practice, over the course of my so far short stay here, I have repeatedly seen both my and other people's questions edited in exactly this 'not d...

discussion editing policy moderation

doppelgreener

12:01

fixed :D

something fell between the cracks in revision there, thanks

doppelgreener

12:29

3

Q: Add guidance on Good Subjective answer citation to the help center

Good Subjective, Bad Subjective underpins the current network approach to subjective questions. It lays down the principles found at the bottom of What types of questions should I avoid asking? which help us distinguish what kinds of subjective questions we do and don't accept. Something it also...

feature-request help-center citation subjective-answers

3

I've made this request on the main meta.

BESW

Thank you. That's been bugging me for [mumblemumble] years.

doppelgreener

13:06

"nothing explains GSBS properly" is the main thing that spurred me to write our citation meta.

goodguy5

14:13

D:
I have so much work to do.

I prefer when work is slow and easy.

JohnP

Went through the second tub yesterday. Found quite a few AD&D pristine sourcebooks.

goodguy5

wowzers

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener Thanks! I hope it gets acted on.

JohnP

Box set Masque Red Death never used, Rules Cyclopedia never opened (Apparently), Domains of Dread never opened...

goodguy5

ebay?

Rubiksmoose

14:17

@goodguy5 ick and on a Monday no less.

JohnP

my ebay acct will be very busy soon.

I spent about 1/2 hour taking pictures of everything yesterday. A lot of forgotten realms and dragonlance stuff, if anyone is interested lmk before Wed.

Also a bunch of the AD&"D core books (DM manual, fiend folio, MM, etc), but a lot are a little worn and have owners names written in.

goodguy5

imo, a fiend folio is a neat thing to have

I think I'll keep all of my various monster books, even after the other material is gone.

If nothing else, it's a good resource for monster ideas

JohnP

@goodguy5 I have 2 of those. Two DM guides, two PHB,s I forget the rest. Too much.

goodguy5

well, then

JohnP

I'm keeping a lot, but all the modules and boxed sets are going. I'm keeping the used modules, but all the unopened modules are going. (There are 50-60 unopened modules).

goodguy5

14:23

holy smokes

JohnP

yeah, tell me about it. If I had the room, I'd keep some of them.

Like the dragonlance DL1-16 modules. Complete set, never opened.

Almost makes me want to start a dragonlance campaign, but nobody wants to go back to THAC0

goodguy5

just reverse it. There's an un-thac0 table somewhere

JohnP

@goodguy5 Eh, maybe. I could use the $$ more at the moment, unfortunately. I've been looking at some of the sold prices and zomg! A used set of the DL 1-14 went for $300 (Sold price).

goodguy5

wow

JohnP

and mine is complete and still shrink wrapped.

:o

KorvinStarmast

14:37

@NautArch example provided.

@doppelgreener I upvoted, good question. applause

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast Unfortunately pings won't work on Naut here. They haven't been in chat for too long.

nitsua60

@JohnP Not hard to run in 5e. I've been running the DL campaign in 5e locally and do all my conversion on the fly. The overwhelming amount of magic itemry given away in that era's modules is the only thing that needs too much thought, IME.

JohnP

@nitsua60 Possibly. I am considering keeping the Birthright box set, but pretty much everything else needs to go. We are trying hard to pay off all of our unsecured debt.

This is much more of a "find" than I had thought when I saw it originally.

nitsua60

@JohnP Oh yeah--I'd totally ebay the unopened collection and, if that's gotten you nostalgic, drop $5 at a time on DTRPG to grab the DL modules in pdf one-by-one.

JohnP

AD&D Needle module - $35 sold. Sheesh.

And mine is still shrink wrapped.

Rubiksmoose

14:46

@KorvinStarmast I think you are on to an interesting question btw. I just think you need a solid example before the question will work. Talking in hypotheticals is never something that works well here. I don't think any of the examples provided do that yet though.

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose It is a question that I do not need answered myself, but a new DM might find an answer useful I refer to new DM's explicitly in the text of the question. The example given is one that a new DM would be facing over the past 4 years if they bought their book about when I did. If you know of a current difference, by all means fill it in as I do not have both books in front of me at the moment.

doppelgreener

@KorvinStarmast thank you! :)

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast I don't know of a current difference and that is kind of my point. Yes it would have been a question 1.5 years ago, but now if a user asked that here the answer would be "errata has changed it" not "the PHB/MM is superior".

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener I'll be interested to see the answers. Given how the various "HNQ" suggestions have been studiously ignored for a few years ... not optimistic. @Rubiksmoose errata is not the point of the question.

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast Well it looks likely to be closed at this point. 4 votes last I checked.

kviiri

14:58

I kinda agree with Korvin here because it's not uncommon for books in this genre to include information on their relative precedence even if their content agrees or is believed to agree. (It is good design)

doppelgreener

I'm not super optimistic either, but at least this only requires a CM writing up a document for the help center, and not developer intervention.

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose Not everyone buys the books new, not everyone goes out looking for the errata. And if it gets closed, so be it, such things happen.

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast I understand errata is not the intended point of the question, but when you add something that has been resolved by errata as the only solid example of an issue you open that door.

doppelgreener

SO Inc has also been doing a bunch of things to make Meta SE more workable recently

kviiri

It sometimes also occurs in board games, eg. Eldritch Horror I played last weekend specifies that if two rules contradict betweem the player guide and reference book, the latter is correct.

KorvinStarmast

14:59

I get the idea from HeyICanChan that this question came up in the community in previous editions ... but that might have had to do with splat books.

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast My only point is that we should work to find an actual issue since that would be a very solid basis on which the question can rest.

And part of this is based on my heavy suspicion that this question will not have a well-sourced answer avaialble at all. Which makes it all the more important that the question is well-grounded. (IMO)

doppelgreener

@kviiri Pugilism, the RPG Rules Conflict Resolution RPG: if two players spot a conflict in the rules, they flip a coin to see who represents which side of the conflict, then fight. The last man standing represents which way the conflict gets resolved. If there are more than two resolutions to the conflict, resolve it with a tiered tournament. Ensure you have a large playgroup.

Rubiksmoose

I mean, the obvious answer is the MM. It came later, it's sole purpose is monster stats, and errata has previously changed PHB stuff to match MM stuff (IIRC). But other than circumstancial evidence not sure there is anything good to go off of.

The other answer is: the DM can choose whichever monster stats seem right for their purpose. There is not one single "right" statblock for a monster. They often get c hanged to suit different needs in modules and things.

Maximillian

Space Ork conflict resolution: Loudest player wins, ties broken by biggest player.

MikeQ

@Maximillian Whoever has more dakka is the winner

Maximillian

15:07

Generally we discourage having dakka at the table.

goodguy5

then you're playing the wrong game

Yuuki

@Maximillian Da loud wuns win fasta?

nitsua60

@Maximillian Funny, sounds like a faculty meeting.

JohnP

@Maximillian Bah. I'm not the biggest, but I would stack up well in a ruction.

Derpy

15:28

@MikeQ Ever considered playing Bangai-O instead?

Maximillian

@nitsua60 I do not miss working university for that reason.

Maximillian

15:53

Huh. Some call for an annual survey on this site? Not even sure what kind of metrics people would be interested in.

Rubiksmoose

@Maximillian Yeah I'm not sure either. Could be interesting though.

Colin Gross

16:17

@Maximillian I would have expected the painfully slow progress and decision paralysis to be bigger factors.

goodguy5

I hate when I assume the things people tell me are true.

Yuuki

@goodguy5 You know what they say about assumptions. They make a <censored> out of you and unverified information.

goodguy5

I just spent 15 minutes trying to decipher why a particular record that a client complained about wasn't being delivered.

Then thought "hrm.... let me check the source..... wait, why is this record there?"

@Yuuki They make a butt out of some poor person named "umé"

wait, are we really not allowed to say that word, or are you just being silly?

Especially since this usage is synonymous with donkey, afaik

Yuuki

Just being overly safe.

Rubiksmoose

The solution is simple: never trust anybody.

goodguy5

16:33

I'm starting to lean that way

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose you're well prepared for playing paranoia

Maximillian

Anybody in a secret society is a communist. Now pick a secret society.

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener hahaha. I wonder how fun Paranoia would be with my group.

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose You are incorrect. I think I can make a really good answer from the DMG, MM, and PHB. However, I can't self answer since I am not where all three are.

@Maximillian Freemasons. Wait, I don't think that works. :p

Rubiksmoose

16:53

@KorvinStarmast agree to disagree I guess. Regardless it is closed right now so nobody can answer at the moment.

Yuuki

@Rubiksmoose You never know if the SE admins employ dangerous buttbuttins.

Maximillian

17:22

You can't trust the people who tell you to not trust people.

doppelgreener

Maximillian

That's why I only trust every prime numbered encounter!

SmokeDetector

17:57

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (247): Does having both Magic Initiate and Ritual Caster combine to let you use spell scrolls? by Jane on rpg.SE (@doppelgreener)

doppelgreener

@SmokeDetector BYE

KorvinStarmast

18:41

@Rubiksmoose So it goes. The close votes, now that an example was provided, either will get over turned or won't. It is not only answerable, but supportable form the three core books.

David Coffron

18:53

So I do what is recommended and put my grievances in an answer rather than bickering in comments and get downvotes for sticking to the rules as we can read them (rather than muddy interpretive and inference stuff). Slightly peeved.

Colin Gross

19:15

@DavidCoffron I've had that exact discussion before.

Actually, I think I have a rather downvoted answer along the same lines somewhere...

NM... it was a poorly received question

1

Q: Can Sneak Attack deal magical damage?

Premise Sneak Attack, like Divine Smite, is not weapon damage according to the ruling for the Great Weapon Fighting fighting style. Consider a weapon such as the Sun Blade that is finesse and can be used two-handed. The Sneak Attack damage is not applicable for the GWF re-rolls, because the dam...

dnd-5e class-feature rogue damage-types

Which similar if not a duplicate of rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/62181/…

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron Thanks for actually understanding and answering my actual question.

BTW did you see this comment?

Didn't all instances of "nonmagical weapons" get changed to "nonmagical attacks" in published material (for example, the MM) via errata? This question is still worth asking, but I think its precise wording is based on outdated rules. — Gandalfmeansme 7 mins ago

Yuuki

I'm assuming the question is linking the following ruling on GWF:

> If you use Great Weapon Fighting with a feature like Divine Smite or a spell like hex, do you get to reroll any 1 or 2 you roll for the extra damage? The Great Weapon Fighting feature—which is shared by fighters and paladins—is meant to benefit only the damage roll of the weapon used with the feature.
> For example, if you use a greatsword with the feature, you can reroll any 1 or 2 you roll on the weapon’s 2d6. If you’re a paladin and use Divine Smite with the greatsword, Great Weapon Fighting doesn’t let you reroll a 1 or 2 that you roll for the damage of Divine Smite.

I'm not sure how that definitively states that Sneak Attack is or is not weapon damage.

Do they mean that Sneak Attack damage isn't affected by GWF re-rolling?

That doesn't necessarily mean that Sneak Attack is or isn't weapon damage.

GreySage

Why does everyone assume that "magic damage" is a thing in 5e?

So many faulty arguments don't realize that "magic" isn't a type, but sources can be magical or non-magical.

goodguy5

@GreySage I mean.... it kind of is.

it's one of those things that's like a meta tag.

Similar to the way surprise works.

Yuuki

@goodguy5 Nobody knows how surprise works. That's why it's a surprise.

Incidentally, one of my disliked rulings on that page as well:

goodguy5

19:31

another meta tag that almost never matters is "spell level" and "casting level".

Those almost never do anything.

Yuuki

> If my Eldritch Knight casts true strike and has the War Magic feature, is the attack granted by War Magic made with advantage because of true strike?
> No. The attack from War Magic is made normally, and you get the benefit of true strike on your next turn if the spell hasn’t ended.

goodguy5

WHAT?!

no. dislike

link, so I can downvote that

GreySage

@Yuuki True, and more evidence that True Strike is just the worst spell ever

Rubiksmoose

@Yuuki that is a very poor ruling.

doppelgreener

It's fortunate they're explicitly advisory rulings which you can reject.

Yuuki

19:38

@GreySage Yeah, War Magic would've made True Strike an at least usable spell.

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener very fortunate indeed.

goodguy5

19:51

@Yuuki I find Tr..ike usable when attacking with attack-roll spells, such as chromatic orb, or inflict

GreySage

@goodguy5 That really is the only use case, and it still takes 2 actions for 1 attack.

goodguy5

yes. but it's two actions to save resources.

or if you got some really spiffy dragonbane arrows or something

"limited use resource"

David Coffron

@Rubiksmoose it is RAW though: "On your next turn, you gain advantage on your first attack roll against the target". So War Magic could only gets advantage if the attack were made on your next turn

goodguy5

and has some fun interactions with elven accuracy

Colin Gross

@Yuuki If sneak attack isn't the weapon damage, then what type of damage is it?

David Coffron

19:55

@ColinGross the question isn't about damage type. It's about whether the damage is sourced by the weapon

Yuuki

@ColinGross I'm not saying that the ruling means Sneak Attack isn't weapon damage. I'm saying that the ruling doesn't really help in making that distinction.

Colin Gross

@DavidCoffron Sure. If it's not, what type of damage is it?

Yuuki

It's like we have A = B and C = D but you can't say A = D until you have B = C.

Colin Gross

Does it inherit the damage type of the weapon, but it's not coming from the weapon? That seems peculiar.

goodguy5

I've missed a step somewhere

Colin Gross

19:57

@Yuuki Everything BC is ancient history. Most of AD is suspect.

Yuuki

@ColinGross BC stands for "before cobwebs". It's old stuff and everything from back then has cobwebs on it now.

goodguy5

sneak attack augments weapon damage
weapon damage has a source

QED sneak attack damage has a source

David Coffron

@ColinGross it could just be feature damage (like divine smite) that happens to inherit the weapons damage type

Yuuki

AD stands for "after Despacito". "Despacito" is a modern song so anything that comes after it is pretty recent.

Colin Gross

@DavidCoffron divine smite does radiant damage

David Coffron

19:59

@goodguy5 challenge on premise the first. Sneak Attack causes the target to take extra damage, not to augment the weapons damage (Unwavering Mark augments the weapon damage)

Colin Gross

@DavidCoffron Also, that one says it does damage in addition to the weapon's damage. I think that's more clear that they're separate.

goodguy5

does augment not mean what I think it means?

David Coffron

@ColinGross and sneak attack deals [as the weapon] damage

goodguy5

I suppose I really meant appends

David Coffron

@goodguy5 divine smite doesn't augment the weapon damage it deals damage separately. Sneak Attack could work similarly.

Colin Gross

20:00

For reference "Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon."

goodguy5

Divine smite is different.

Sneak Attack COULD work similarly, but it doesn't.

Colin Gross

Is that implicit that it's the weapon doing the damage and what the type of damage is?

goodguy5

@ColinGross as per my reading, yes

Colin Gross

I dunno. Doesn't say explicitly, but untyped damage seems like a bad edge case.

goodguy5

it's like critical hits.

Yuuki

20:02

@ColinGross It's basically IE. Every Edge case is a bad Edge case.

David Coffron

@goodguy5 I don't see that former implication at all (the implication that the weapon is dealing the damage). The latter I can almost see, but even then it's tenuous

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron Yeah indeed. It just seems a little lame is all.

Yuuki

(Note, I am aware that Microsoft is re-tooling Edge to be a Chromium-based browser, IE jokes are just funny)

goodguy5

Well, possession of damage dealt is a murky concept, in general.

The weapon is the vehicle through which the damage is dealt. Ergo, The damage dealt is the type by which the weapon can deal damage.

David Coffron

Take sharpen the blade (Kensei monk) if you don't like divine smite. "any target you hit with a ranged attack using a kensei weapon takes an extra 1d4 damage of the weapon’s type" this is almost identical to divine smite. Is it damage "from the weaoon"?

goodguy5

20:05

It doesn't matter, because that ability specifically calls out the mechanics and origin of the damage type.

Just like Divine Smite.

GreySage

@goodguy5 Yes, Sneak Attack is the outlier here in that it is not explicit

goodguy5

I should really put the phb on my work computer...

Rubiksmoose

@GreySage and really needs an errata

GreySage

FWIW the wording on Sneak Attack and Divine Smite is semantically almost identical, it's just that Sneak Attack doesn't specify a type.

David Coffron

@goodguy5 what is the origin of Kensei shots damage then? Is it a weapon source?

We're not interested in damage type. That's it's own question. We are interested in damage origin

goodguy5

20:14

@DavidCoffron so, you're saying, such as lycanthropes?

immune to bps damage from non-magical weapons.

Kensei damage is from the monk. it's pseudo magical (technically psionic, I guess).

man, now I don't know anymore.

you've got me all twisted up

David Coffron

@goodguy5 well it's not important for lycanthropes anymore since "nonmagical weapons" was errata'd to "nonmagical attacks" making it more clear

goodguy5

oh, that's good

I'd rather make a ruling, than a rule.

sharpen the blade is well after the monk gets Ki-Empowered Strikes at level 6

So, if you can give me a specific interaction, I can tell you how I'd handle it, and probably be able to justify it.

David Coffron

@goodguy5 fair enough. I like the rulings over rules approach anyway

GreySage

What determines if an attack is magical/non-magical? I know the Crawford list of reasons something is magical, but what if there are multiple parts to the attack, like a non-magical sword + Divine Smite?

Mark Wells

20:30

@GreySage "Nonmagical attack" is really a step backward in clarity, for exactly that reason.

David Coffron

@GreySage ew. The errata may have made things more confusing

@JeremyECrawford the recent MM errata changed nonmagical weapons to nonmagical attacks. While this fixes some confusing interactions, it makes more really confusing situations. What about a nonmagical sword with a divine smite. What part of the attack is a lycanthrope damaged by?

Tweeted by dcoffron on January 28, 2019 at 8:32 PM

goodguy5

queen takes pawn

Mark Wells

"Magical weapon" is at least a clearly defined category (mumble mumble unarmed strikes).

GreySage

@DavidCoffron Hey look, I influenced the real world by typing words!

David Coffron

If Twitter is "the real world", what is this 9-5 I'm doing rn

:P

goodguy5

20:38

How is your campaign setting different from everyone else's? What's the weirdest thing about your world? (This is for a video)

Tweeted by mattcolville on January 14, 2019 at 7:21 PM

GreySage

@DavidCoffron I don't know, but by banging my fingers against little pieces of plastic I created a train of thought in your brain which contributed to you spending time on an unrelated task, which I think is pretty cool.

David Coffron

@GreySage true. Very cool

Yuuki

@goodguy5 The beginning town actually has an incredibly long and unpronounceable name dating back centuries (it's Welsh). Most people just call it by a shorter name which translates to "Molehill". The forgotten full name translates to "Rocks Fall Everyone Dies".

GreySage

Is double typed damage a thing in 5e? Like, is there something that is both slashing AND radiant, or fire AND poison?

goodguy5

Is there more to the joke, yuuki

@GreySage kind of? There are a couple things that have two separate damage pools.

.... blizzard? maybe? or comet? something with ice and bludgeoning damage

Xirema

20:46

@GreySage Speaking as someone who was doing research for a Homebrew that would introduce "Frostflame" damage to certain special features, I'm quite certain that 5e does not natively have dual-typed damage.

Yuuki

@goodguy5 Well, the town's getting pretty big these days to where it's starting to attract raiding parties. Citizens are considering raising the town, kinda like a small plateau (so a butte), to serve as natural barriers.

You could say that they're making a mountain out of Molehill.

Xirema

There are spells like Ice Storm which have Bludgeoning and Cold damage, which is split across different dice rolls, or Divine Wave which simply splits up its d6's across Thunder Damage and the caster's choice of Radiant or Necrotic damage. But to my knowledge, there are no damage types that simply deal multiple types of damage as the same damage.

goodguy5

I missed that. that's funny.

But I meant is there a molehill-rfed corollary?

GreySage

@goodguy5 Meteor Swarm has 20d6 Bludgeoning and 20d6 Fire

Yuuki

@goodguy5 Not really anything funny, no.

Xirema

20:49

@GreySage I think the example we're looking for to prove the existence of dual-typed damage is something like "deals 40d6 damage, which is both Fire and Bludgeoning damage"

And to my knowledge, that is not a thing in 5e.

GreySage

@Xirema Out of curiosity, how would FrostFlame damage work? Does it take the best or worst in terms of resistance/immunity/vulnerability?

goodguy5

It'd have to be "take the best" right?

Yuuki

I had considered a "frostflame"-esque damage type. It was essentially used for fire-themed weapons and spells and it behaved like cold damage.

So if you were resistant to fire damage but not resistant to cold damage, you would take full damage from frostflame weapons and spells.

Xirema

@GreySage The way I was designing it, it would [by design] strongly favor the person producing the damage. So a creature vulnerable to one type would be vulnerable to the whole damage stream. A creature resistant/immune to one type (but not the other) would take normal damage. A creature vulnerable to one but resistant to the other would take normal damage. A creature immune to one but resistant to the other would take half damage. No double vulnerability or double resistance.

Yuuki

Whereas if you weren't resistant to fire damage but were resistant to cold damage, you would resist the damage.

All frostflame weapons and spells had some kind of secondary effect, the magnitude of which was affected by fire resistance.

So in the previous two cases, fire resist only would take full damage but resist the secondary effect whereas cold resist only would resist the damage but take the full secondary effect.

Xirema

20:56

@Yuuki This sounds like how you'd design things if you're not a mad scientist. ;)

Yuuki

This was intended for an arctic-themed short campaign where cold resistance would be more prevalent and available so players who wanted an ice/cold aesthetic wouldn't be completely screwed by the setting.

@Xirema I had also considered what you mentioned but my gut reaction was that frostflame spells would then just be straight improvements over standard fire and cold spells. Whether or not that's true however, I didn't really look into.

GreySage

@Xirema Interesting, so it's "best of" for the caster, in all cases except vuln + resist, which becomes normal damage.

Xirema

@Yuuki Yeah, so the catch is that every time you design a "frostflame" spell, you limit the damage output to like 60-75% what you'd design for a regular spell.

Cold damage is usually like 80% the damage of a Fire damage spell, so maybe target 80-90% of a Cold damage spell. If you were using d8s for the equivalent Cold damage spell, use d6's, etc.

Yuuki

I had also thought about a “shadowflame” theme. They were basically fire spells with low damage but a secondary debuff effect tied to necrotic resistance.

Xirema

TBH, 5e was probably smart about simply avoiding multiple-damage effects for most spells. Stuff like Green Flame Blade would be a really good candidate for some kind of "Shadowflame" damage, but instead, they just flavor it as "Felflame" while still dealing normal Fire damage.

Dual-typed damage is the Gordian's Knot of damage type design.

Mark Wells

21:13

@Xirema Yeah, what they did was sensible. "2d10 fire damage and 2d10 cold damage" needs no special mechanics.

Yuuki

@Xirema Yeah, that's why I tried to keep the damage to one type and have a secondary effect tied to another type.

BESW

21:26

Happy Sunday! Tell me about a really cool ttrpg mechanic, one that accomplishes a design goal in a really elegant way or is just plain fun to interact with. (And tag and RT!)

Tweeted by GauntletRPG on January 27, 2019 at 8:21 PM

Yuuki

I should make a character designed around casting Fireball as many times as possible.

Just for the moment where the DM asks me what I want to do, I answer "Fireball", they ask "are you sure?", and I reply by producing multiple pages representing my spell list and it's just "Fireball" over and over again.

BESW

@Yuuki [remembers the 3.5 Necklace of Fireballs]

David Coffron

@Yuuki in 5e I don't know if you can do much better than wizard or land druid with the spell

Would be a fun question though: "What character build allows for the maximum number of fireball casts in a day

BESW

Also, does it have to be fireball, or just fireball-like?

David Coffron

21:41

(Obviously you're looking at before level 20, because a level 20 wizard has no limit)

BESW

(The 3.5 PrC Blighter had an at-will standard action burst-on-caster fire effect that dealt non-scaling damage and set things on fire.)

Glazius

@DavidCoffron Just use Hackmaster? Every spell level has a Sidewinder Fireball (Factor X), where each die of the fireball does 1d6+X-6 damage, minimum 1.

David Coffron

@Yuuki the main wizard character in this manga basically does that as his main combatmethod (the only spell he's mastered but he is so good with it that he cam best most with just that spell)

Yuuki

@BESW I guess to emulate the situation I have in mind, it really doesn't matter what the spell is.

Although being combat-only would be what makes it funny.

BESW

3.5 also had a feat where so long as you had a fire-type spell of a certain level or higher available to cast, you could make a miniature fireball-like effect at will, with its effectiveness scaling with the level of your highest prepared fire spell.

Sir Cinnamon

22:00

@BESW This could be an interesting thing to convert to 5e - A cantrip that deals Xd4 fire damage where x is the spell slot level of a fire spell you have prepared (and have slots able to cast it?)

That might actually be strictly weaker than firebolt... but maybe just at lower levels... maybe d6s?

BESW

I think the category of feats was called "reserve."

[rummages]

They were a relatively late-stage addition, and hinted at 4e's "at-will" category of power but were mostly deeply underwhelming in a system where feat slots were one of the most precious resources.

Sir Cinnamon

Yeah, what i described above would be underpowered in terms of a feat. Maybe paired with a +1 int or some other fire utilities like permanent warmth, light or something

BESW

> As long as you have a fire spell of 2nd level or higher available to cast, you can spend a standard action to create a 5-foot-radius burst of fire at a range of 30 feet. This burst deals ld6 points of fire damage per level of the highest level fire spell you have available to cast. A successful Reflex save halves the damage. As a secondary benefit, you gain a +1 competence bonus to your caster level when casting fire spells.

(Fiery Burst, Complete Mage)

Yuuki

> This burst deals ld6 points of fire damage per level of the highest level fire spell you have available to cast.

That's interesting.

Does that mean the highest level fire spell you can cast or the highest level fire spell you have prepared?

Although I suppose that depends on whether or not you're a Wizard.

ACuriousMind

@Yuuki That question doesn't really make sense in the 3e paradigm, does it? Either you're a prepared caster and you have prepared specific fire spells in specific slots, or you're a spontaneous caster and you just take the highest level for which you both have a slot left and know a fire spell.

BESW

22:17

Yup, exactly that.

It's the highest level fire spell you could cast right now but you're choosing to use the reserve feat instead.

Sir Cinnamon

I really like that

BESW

It was a fun concept but the implementation was awful.

For combat-focused reserve feats, you were almost ALWAYS better off using your actual spells instead.

They seemed like a good tactical choice, save your big guns for later, but in practice the offensive capacity of reserve feats was almost negligible: you were producing spell effects at roughly half your level with them, while facing enemies challenging for your level.

The utility reserves had a bit more creative oomph but were still mostly underwhelming because they took up feat slots in an edition where feat slots were a Really Big Deal.

trogdor

@BESW but spells are one and done right?

if you just cast your highest stuff you do more but then you can't continue doing that?

I understand it was not actually that useful in practice but

it would have been a really nice idea I guess

BESW

22:36

@trogdor Right. It's a neat tactical concept: have infinite low-power attacks until you use up your high-power attack.

trogdor

it's too bad

that being said I guess I still wouldn't go back to D&D just to use those even if they were,... better

BESW

But D&D 3.5 was already built around the assumption of not having infinite low-power spells, so they were faced with either making reserve feats an awesome must-have option, or making reserve feats pointless outside of niche builds.

ACuriousMind

The concept becomes better the more encounters you expect to have to deal with between spell slot recovery

BESW

4e just came in the gate saying "Okay everybody, here's your at-wills, go to town."

trogdor

yeah I think 4e at wills were pretty good

kviiri

22:39

I love having more than one thing to spam

trogdor

they laid the groundwork for everyone to actually be at equal power levels, which is something I really wanted out of D&D that 3.5 couldn't possibly provide

kviiri

4e was generally quite good at providing several sensible options during combat, not just "I hit it with my sword"

trogdor

unless everyone was playing the EXACT same build

which is just dumb

@kviiri yep

BESW

I also think the late-stage 3.5 experimentation with recharging powers had potential.

They had, for example, a martial class where you'd know five powers that were each expended on use--but when you had only one left, you could pick one to recharge.

Or powerful effects that could only be recharged by using less-powerful ones multiple times.

Carcer

the crusader has pretty funky manoeuvre mechanics

BESW

22:51

The implementation was all various forms of clunky bookkeeping, but the concept had promise.

I think it might be better with cards or counters or something.

I'm fond of physical props to track your abilities, especially when their positions are used to "store" bookkeeping information.

Carcer

oh, yeah, it'd work pretty well as a card thing, that makes the randomly determined power availability thing pretty simple to do too

ACuriousMind

@BESW We typically play at rather crowded tables and I can't imagine how often people would knock over or otherwise mess up the counters

BESW

Well, like, if you've got a power that recharges after you've used two other powers: turn it head-down when you use it. Turn it sideways after the first other power, and turn it back head-up after the second other power.

Carcer

that was going to be my followup - a system which is too sensitive to physical disruption introduces its own problems

GreySage

I'm getting a "You can only post once every 40 minutes." error when I try to post in a new Stack I just signed up for, whats with that?

BESW

22:56

We somehow manage with minis-and-grids, Magic: the Gathering, and Betrayal at House on the Hill.

Carcer

mini+grid is usually put in centre table sort of away from everyone's stuff so less prone to being disrupted but still people knock that crap over all the time

ACuriousMind

@GreySage Low-rep accounts are limited to a few (maybe one?) question per hour on the network

This restriction is only lifted on sites where you have more than MAGIC_REP rep

For the value of MAGIC_REP I'd have to search around :P

Carcer

once your rep is above MAGIC_REP does that make your rep magical?

Does magical rep overcome damage resistances?

ACuriousMind

@Carcer It counts as magical damage, but not as a magical weapon

BESW

264

A: The Complete Rate-Limiting Guide

Rate Limit Rationale Loading pages Undisclosed limit, applies to IP addresses Applies to the entire network; if one makes too many requests on one or more sites, access to all network sites is restricted Does not apply to chat sites Should not be triggered during normal browsing; if you get ...

Carcer

22:58

but is it a magical attack?

BESW

7

Q: Why is the 1 question per 40 minutes limit enforced ACROSS different sites?

A bit of background: I have Asperger's syndrome. One consequence of that is, generally, even a simple half-a-page post takes from 30 to 60 minutes to write and leaves me quite tired. (Which, as far as I'm aware, is much slower than average.) On the other hand, sometimes I get in the mood, feel al...

discussion questions rate-limiting

Carcer

see errata

BESW

looks like MAGIC_REP = 125

ACuriousMind

@Carcer It is a magical attack, but not a magical Attack.

The Oracle

0

Q: What questions should an annual RPG survey ask?

I recently asked a question about getting an annual survey similar to the official developer survey. The current consensus to this is "unlikely". Following that Oblivous Sage asked if we wanted to make our own. To which the current assumption is "yes but what would we ask? and who would make it?...

discussion annual-survey

GreySage

23:14

Guess I'll just wait then

I'd be nice if it told you how long to wait (although I can just look at my previous questions).

Xirema

My plan with this obtuse documentation is that if I stick self-deprecating jokes in the middle of it, it might make the obtuseness easier to swallow.

trogdor

@BESW I like the concept of that too but I generally prefer to have a little more control over when I can use an ability or power or something

Having to cycle them to use them all is a little restrictive in a sense

ACuriousMind

23:29

@Xirema Spreadsheet software? Give me the data in a CSV and a python shell and I'm good to go! :P

MikeQ

Are there TTRPG systems that use a deck of cards approach to managing cooldowns?

BESW

D&D 4e lends itself to the approach, but doesn't bake the cooldown tracking into the system.

Ender Look

23:47

"The three skeletons are animated and attack any creature that comes within 10 feet of the door leading to area 5 or the door leading to area 6, unless that creature is wearing the scarlet cloak of the Redbrands or speaks the password "Illefam" (the name of an ancient elven nation, which once spread across much of the Sword Coast)." page 22 from Lost Mine of Phandelver. How is supposed that the players would know the password??

MikeQ

@EnderLook See this question and this other question

Ender Look

I had not thought of looking at RPG! Thanks

A_S00

@MikeQ 3.5 sort of vaguely suggests doing so with the Tome of Battle maneuvers (and includes printable cards), but doesn't really spell it out very clearly

(which is too bad, because using a deck of cards to track Crusader maneuvers changes it from the most annoying ToB class to a total breeze)

Glazius

@BESW I'd say it's arguable? They don't require power cards, but at the same time character builders will spit them out pretty readily and the pre-essentials starter set came with some.

BESW

@Glazius Yes, but that's not specifically tracking cooldowns, which was the question.

You can, obviously, use the cards to track cooldowns. But the game doesn't provide any guidance or support for it; it just gives you reference cards and it's up to you to figure out your own way to use them to track cooldowns if that occurs to you at all.

They're presented as reference cards, not tracking cards.

MikeQ

23:59

@BESW I was just thinking aloud. Could be interesting if there's a TTRPG that puts all action economy into a single track cycle, rather than having players keep track of multiple simultaneous cooldowns

Transcript for