Question. (D&D5e). How much powerful is being able to exchange a Hit Dice for a 3rd level spell slot as a bonus action. Side note: You don't recover your Hit Dices sleeping, you lose one per day and need 5 liquid oz of blood to recover a Hit Dice. And about the purpose of healing of HD, they are able to add half of their proficiency to the HD in short rest, also, they heal half of their proficiency bonus per turn if they have less than half of their max HP. And yes, it is another vampire class!

@EnderLook That is a lot of variables to evaluate

Oh, ok

a 3rd level Cure Wounds spell heals 3d8+casting mod, or 15-ish hp. Would spending a HD heal less or more than that?

@GreySage They doesn't has healing spells

@EnderLook So HD are their only method of healing?

@GreySage Not exactly, give me a second

That's enough to make me wonder if 5e's the right choice. You seem to have a lot of hacking at the system to make it what you want to use, and 5e is notoriously bad to hack (its design goal is to be simple, adding complexity doesn't help the system out and the system is built with a lot of balance in mind - too much hacking throws off that balance and forces you to add a ton of complexity to the existing mechanics)

Chopping out the biggest source of magical healing and screwing with naturally available healing are big red flags in my mind - if it's just this class, then anyone playing it plays by fundamentally different rules for how they want to adventure. If everyone is this class, the whole game is different (by both a magnitude of complexity and how adventures work) -- I'm not saying you should definitely stop everything and go to another system, just that you may very well break 5e

3.5 and 4e both tried to do vampire PCs, both with remarkably underwhelming results.

Pathfinder does something similar - not full Vampires, but spawn-of-vampires (Dhamphir) which have some neat flavor and also can take racial feats to really double-down on the "Vampiric" nature

Full Vampires are a template that end up giving some crazy abilities, as is tradition

@GreySage This are their healing abilities link. Recovery is very WIP (it may sound a bit weird, but I think they won't be able to cast it on level 3rd, only 5ft)..

3.5 used the ECL/HD balancing mechanic to produce vampire PCs that were effectively glass cannons: ridiculously overpowered utility but also ridiculously easy to render ineffective. 4e had some success with part-vampire PCs, but both attempts to make full vampires went sideways and you wound up more effective taking a single multiclass feat rather than classing into vampire.

@Delioth Should I use another version? But aren't they old? Which would you suggest? 4 or 3.5? I am not sure

@EnderLook "Old" is relative. 3.5e or 4e are still very much alive - people still play them, and homebrew still comes out (less so for 3.5 since Pathfinder swooped in to take that niche)

But there's also systems that aren't D&D

@Delioth I'm sorry, but what is Pathfinder. I have tried to google it but I can't get any handbook. I only know it's a TTRPG. Does it has free handbooks?

Fate is the one I most often like to use if I'm not playing a d20-based game - it's solid, mechanics are simple and easy to get out of the way, but it's super-focused on narrative

Yeah, all Pathfinder content is free.

Pathfinder is basically D&D 3.5 for people who still wanted new content for their 3.5 games after D&D moved on to 4e.

Lemme see if I can get you a link to the PRD (organized by book); there's also a couple sites that have all the info in a more search-able format that's organized by "what" not "when published"

@Delioth Pathfinder is railroaded?

@EnderLook www.d20pfsrd.com or Archives of Nethys are tour best free legit source of information about Pathfinder

I wouldn't recommend any D&D-like system for a vampirey game though. That paradigm isn't really designed for the kinds of stories told around vampires.

@Zachiel OMG, that is Pathfinder? I've seen that website billions of times thinking it was D&D and then noticing it wasn't. The weird thing is that the page doesn't has as title Pathfinder, so I didn't know

@EnderLook Pathfinder is not necessarily railroaded (it can be, depending on the DM), but its mechanics only tell you what characters can do, and nothing about how players can influence the narrative

@EnderLook the pf in the URL stands for pathfinder. D&D (3.5e and 5e) has www.d20srd.org

Yeah - if Pathfinder is "railroaded" then 5e is even moreso (Pathfinder lends itself to slightly more settings than 5e - laser guns and chainsaws)

@Zachiel ahh, know I understand

Does Pathfinder has a handbook or PDF or it's just a website wiki style?

@EnderLook It's got physical books and pdf's, but those you have to pay for

Ok

They used to have a site that had the core content arranged by book, and I'm told it's migrated to another place; I'm trying to find it now

Ah, here it is: legacy.aonprd.com

Thanks

That's at least got all the main, core books; all the stuff arranged by book

Notably better for perusing and people newer to the system

Ok

There's a ton of other content that's not in there (stuff from smaller paperbacks, deemed "splatbooks"), but the game is perfectly playable with just the Core Rulebook

I don't think Pathfinder's going to solve any of the 5e vampire-balance problems that have been mentioned.

Pathfinder lends itself to more settings because of all the splat books and extra content

@BESW it's good that you made that clear - I don't think any of us wanted to imply that.

@EnderLook Pathfinder and 3.5 are very similar to 5e, except there are more options, more math, and the numbers span a wider range.

Ok, anyway I am still not sure if I will move to Pathfinder. Side question: does Pathfinder and starfinder are the same?

I'd also have to agree with @BESW though - d20 systems (like Pathfinder or 5e) assume that the players will be roughly challenged at all phases and that there are defined, concrete power levels that exist and get bigger over time. Vampire stories... don't follow those rules

@MikeQ Does it has Epic Spells?

For an "adventurers and some are monsters and some aren't" game, maybe Monster of the Week?

@EnderLook No. Starfinder is a more recent system with totally different mechanics. Same publisher, different rules. Some say Starfinder was an early testing ground for Pathfinder 2e concepts (Pathfinder 2e is in playtest right now)

@EnderLook I don't know about the rules, but starfinder is set in space. It still has the same "the rules are there to tell you what characters can or can't do" problem.

@Delioth What? Is there Pathfinder 1e and 2e? Which links you posted here?

@BESW (Fate is always a good choice)

@EnderLook What is your goal? Story about a vampire antagonist against the players? Setting where some of the players can be vampires? Setting where all of the players are vampires?

@Delioth Yeah, there are a couple pre-made settings that could work there.

@EnderLook I posted 1e, because 2e is currently in open beta playtesting

Which comes with its own problems and lack of options. Plus, no communal experience in homebrewing)

(Also, Pathfinder 2e looks like a completely different game at the moment)

@MikeQ A player (my brother) would like to be a vampire.

In what kind of game?

@Delioth Are there very differents? Like D&D versions?

@EnderLook Massively

I'm currently a huge fan of 2e. A lot of the community hates it.

@EnderLook more different, currently. I'd say even more than D&D 4e was different from D&D 3e or 5e.

@MikeQ Sorry. I don't know what means that question

@Delioth Well, I lover bigger numbers so I must to try the 2e

@EnderLook It seems that you are looking at different systems, correct?

Choosing a system is like choosing a tool. Different tools are better at different tasks.

Similarly, different TTRPG systems are better suited than others, depending on what kind of game you want to play.

@EnderLook I'll try to translate. Does your brother want to be a vampire with vampirelike powers in a game where you still bash monsters to get more treasure, or in a game where you are expected to behave like Dracula, or like some other vampire from the movies?

@MikeQ Oh. I just was thinking in D&D5e when you and others started suggesting me other systems. My brothers idea is just to be a vampire and my idea is to run something, if it is dnd better but if not it doesn't matter. Anyway, I only play 6 D&D5e sessions and 1 my brother, so...

(I hopeI'm not stepping on your toes, @MikeQ, but I feel like Ender Look needs to understand the kind of options we're talking about, first)

@Zachiel He want to be a Vampire Heroe. Monster who keeps killing monsters with help of humanoid heores

Side-question: is there a good reason that his "vampire-ness" needs to be backed up by rules?

@Delioth Good question

@Delioth What means that? He obviously wants to have special powers.

@EnderLook Yeah, but maybe it doesn't really matter if the sun harms him for real or if he just dislikes it.

@Zachiel It's helpful, thank you.

I think the "vampire fighting alongside humans" rules out a lot of the Vampire: the * titles ;)

And no Monsterhearts

@EnderLook Because it's vastly easier to make someone feel like a vampire and stay within reason and not break the system, than it is to hack away at a system (discarding many very important assumptions, possibly giving too-powerful features or removing all viability) to make someone feel like it's good

@Zachiel He likes the abilities, which in my opinion, also include the disadvantages (otherwise he would be a killing machine)

It's over!

@EnderLook What we're saying is he doesn't necessarily need those fancy abilities to make it feel like a vampire

It's finally over!

@MikeQ yeah, definitely no. But Monster of the Week might do for "evil creature part of a secret team that protects humanity"

@Zachiel He was thinking in being a vampire but keeping it in secret for the players until the last minute... I think

Vampire's super-strength? Well, adventurers are vastly superior to normal people anyways - an 18 in Strength is super-strength.

@EnderLook that depends on the game.

Now I can spend my time on my D&D characters again lol

@Zachiel Also Morts!

Same with stuff like Dexterity

...and InSpectres.

@BESW Morts?

@Delioth And what I am saying is that he wants those fancy abilities!

@Ben What's over, Ben?

@Ben What's over?

Our server crashed... In an attempt to fix it, it got exponentially worse...

@Delioth ... yes, but he is more interested in the vampire healing and magic (polymorft etc) than other stuff.

@Ben Ouch!

@EnderLook So... he's a druid?

@Zachiel Morts is a free Fate setting. A generation after the undead apocalypse, a small city in the Pacific Northwest is rebuilding itself thanks to the thanksless work of government-sponsored undead-hunters. Sometimes one of the more intelligent undead joins their forces to hunt the evil/unthinking undead who threaten their way of life.

And we have external clients that need access to that server, and if they don't, that's a fast track to getting sued to death.

@Delioth I've just offered him to be a druid... he got offended

4 days later, each day starting at 3am, its back to working order.

Gets healing, gets magic, gets polymorphing. Reflavoring those to come from vampiric stuff instead of nature is trivial

Doesn't require you to hack away at the system and break everything open

Another thing to consider: Different cultural myths have different assumptions about what vampires can and cannot do

@Delioth Just to note that with healing I mean passive healing.

@Delioth yeah, if playing D&D he could very well be. I've had a 4e druid that was a shapechanged dragon that reverted to her true form when using shapechange, in one of my games. Not a dragon at all, but it worked: the wonders of refluffing!

@EnderLook This breaks the 5e

The system makes a lot of assumptions on "how much health do the characters have"

@MikeQ I know, this is my greatest difficulty. I'm trying to adding everything... he has more than 2 pages of weakness... and 8 of abilities...

@EnderLook Which is exactly when you know that you should be doing none of this - 5e doesn't like weaknesses, because they're super-gameable

@MikeQ I've got an old campaign idea about Korean vampires overthrowing both North and South Korean goverments and "restoring" the Joseon dynasty with themselves as the ruling class.

@Delioth You have right. I have to convince my brother to change of system before he get bound to it.

And adding more abilities will 100% outshine the rest of the party unless they get their own fancy abilities

@EnderLook well, this isn't going to end well. Balancing such a swath of abilities is going to be troublesome, especially for an almost-first-time DM

@EnderLook Or get him to play a flavor of something else - Druids aren't all nature-fanatics living in the forest. The class is the set of abilities - spellcasting, shapechanging, etc. It makes no prescription of what those abilities actually entail (if there is anything that does that, it's easier to scrap)

@Delioth Yes, I was thinking in compensate that with magic items. But I don't know if the DMGuide has enought... XD

@Zachiel Edit: A first time DM! I know, the jump in step will kill me

@Zachiel Any game dislike disadvantages?

@EnderLook At which point the system breaks further - all these level N characters have magic items which makes them more powerful. Either A) they just plow through encounters that would be challenging, or B) You power up the encounters... and the encounters now have enough damage to just instantly kill the party

One solution might be using a system that already works like you need to: summing up advantages and disadvantages (I'm thinking GURPS now, but it still has the problems of D&D about story creation)

@Delioth Ok. Maybe I could convince my brother to by a Druid if I make a blood circle. That will be much less work

Again, there are games which come with "vampire playing alongside mortals" right out of the box.

But re-flavoring a druid (keep the mechanics, change what they're called and what the story behind them is) would also be very effective.

@Zachiel I've read a bit about GURPS. It has a Mana magic system, that is nice for by brother. But it's a bit weird. I'll have to have another look on it

It'd probably be more realistic to just do what all GM's must do at some point when new players ask for a lot: say No. Sometimes systems just can't take that and a given character can't be too far out of line with the "expected stuff" (whether with bonuses and penalties, orwhatever)

@BESW here might have some good ideas on how to work out some Fate aspects that fit the constant regeneration (probably something that recharges every scene?) and shapechange skills in a system like Fate, where the characters are way less tied to HP and other things that could get in the way of creating a character with the right aesthetics.

A book worth of extra abilities and different rules to play by is too much - video games could allow it, but TTRPG's just sometimes aren't a good fit

@Zachiel Fate is Pathfinder or another game?

Fate's a different game, much more simple though

@Delioth You have right. I've already written 12 pages and it isn't finished yet. I'll have to have a tedious talk with him.

@Delioth I can't understand how does exist so much TTRPG. When I have to choose I always get stuck!

@EnderLook fate-srd.com/fate-core

@BESW Fate doesn't use HP? Does they use Wounds?

@EnderLook Nope, totally different concept.

@EnderLook It is a common pitfall for TTRPG players to assume that all TTRPGs function like D&D

Races, classes, HP, levels, and so on ... These do not exist in all systems

In Fate, for example, a character could have a trait (not sure about the terminology) that just says "vampire in disguise". Other players or the GM can use this trait to impose disadvantages on a character (in exchange for fate point they can then spend to leverage situations in their favour at a later time), for example "I will give you a Fate point if the opponent happends to be using a wooden stake as a weapon" (ok that was a stupid example)

With wounds I mean like Warhammer. I haven't play that but I know that units has really low hitpoints, like 2 or 6. (Not e.g:8 per level like DnD)

You have "stress" bubbles, usually about three, which represents your ability to avoid lasting consequences. Attacks deal stress, which you absorb with your stress bubbles. When you take more stress than you can absorb, you choose to either take a lasting consequence or leave the conflict and give the opponent something they want.

@Zachiel That is very weird, but impressive!

@BESW That sounds more as a strategy game than an RPG!

It's a story game: the stress/consequence system asks the player "What are you willing to endure in the long-term in order to get what you want right now?"

Honestly many games of D&D are more like strategy games than a Role Playing Game

So, maybe your vampire ran through the sunlight to catch someone, and took the consequence Seriously crispy. He could've chosen to give up and let the person get away, but he'd rather get crispy and catch the guy.

@BESW But it's still about heroes, dungeons and adventures like Dungeons & Dragons?

@EnderLook Please note how what BESW said compares with how D&D (or Warhammer) would deal with the same situations: "Are you willing to risk losing all your HP today or tomorrow?" XD

@EnderLook If that's what you want it to be about. Fate's not a setting, though there are a lot of setting books for Fate. Fate is a system for telling stories about characters who are competent, dramatic, and proactive, who take risks to get their goals and get in trouble for it, but are awesome enough to get out of that trouble too.

@EnderLook In other words, fate can be.

@Zachiel haha

Ok

Normally a consequence like Seriously crispy might last for a few sessions. But if your vampire has the stunt I linked above, then if he's fighting someone in the next scene and they choose to take a consequence rather than let him get what he wants, he can change it from Seriously crispy to Lightly toasted and get rid of it at the end of that session.

Fate (and many, many other games that don't follow the D&D paradigm) also allows the whole group to control the narrative, the pacing... what's interesting for the heroes? Maybe needing to retreat and coming back with a better plan makes for a better scene, like in a movie. D&D usually cares more about resource management: coming back one day later is often a necessity or the result of a bad approach to the current encounter.

@BESW With sessions do you mean 4 or more hours of seriously Crispy?

Yeah, probably.

But that's not the only way you can model fast healing in Fate. It's a very flexible system which doesn't break easily.

Also, Fate tends to play faster than D&D, so more things happen in the same game-time.

@EnderLook In Fate, your stunts and penalties tend to have creative names. Players usually make up the effects and names while playing. The vampire got burnt from sunlight, so BESW called it "seriously crispy".

That is too much time crispy, how much battles are possible to do in a session? I've read that D&D can hold arround 4 or 5.

@MikeQ That is interesting

@BESW my personal problem with Fate is that it has so many ways to model things that I get stuck analyzing which is better. Also, Fate is more of a toolbox and requires inventive ways to turn facts into mechanics.

@EnderLook Fate, and many other games, do not approach combat in the same ways that D&D does

@MikeQ So? Is it more or less combat focused than D&D?

D&D's combat is very tactical, and tends to be the focus of the gameplay

Fate is generally not as combat-centric as D&D. There's more emphasis about the players contributing parts to a story. Like everyone is collaborating to write the story together.

@MikeQ Uh, that is a serious disadvantage for us. So is it rolling and social-focused?

Fate is what you make of it

@EnderLook Fate makes a distinction between players, and player characters.

It can be social focused. It can be combat focused. It is always story focused

Collaborating to tell the story together is what the players do.

For example, once we had a player who was The Incredible Hulk in a superhero game. One of his aspects was "Hulk Smash". It took a while to figure that we could compel him to smash more things than he wanted to, in order to introduce problems that we as a group needed to solve. Without that, the fiction had him go uncontested and easily reach a lab to get some items we needed. With that, he ended up breaking the thing.

If the story would be more interesting with a fight, then the collective makes a fight happen. But random extra fights for XP should never happen. Notably, there aren't explicitly rewards just for having a fight.

Uh, I shouldn't have started with "for example"... it looks like I'm talking about what BESW just said... my last post was more of a continuoation of my previous one.

The nature of the story can be primarily social, or physical, or whatever. It's about people getting into conflicts in order to achieve their goals, and often making bad decisions because of their personalities and values which make it harder to get to their goals.

Because Fate's mechanics are based on phrases the group comes up with, you can use the same basic rules to model an argument between friends, a political debate on the floor of the senate, or a laser-gun fight over a lava pit.

@BESW yet, while in D&D acting along your personalities and values and making bad decisions is detrimental and prevents you from getting to your goals, in Fate you get rewarded for this behaviour.

In any of those situations, the outcome will be less about "which player chose the better argument/allies/guns" and more about "which character is more invested in the outcome and is willing to risk more to get it."

It seems to me or in Fate the GM doesn't make the story? It seems like players build by pieces it, making solutions or adding problems by themselves. Isn't that dangerous?

It's also really hard to come up with a character that just doesn't work in Fate, back to your issues. A vampire character can play fine with others; he's just got an aspect that says he is one, then he is. Good or bad; he can exploit that fact for advantages, and others can exploit that for their own advantage.

@Zachiel Well, it is supposed that the DM can award you with an Inspiration, but they don't seem very powerful.

@EnderLook Yes, it's collaborative; the GM is more like a referee. Why would that be dangerous?

@EnderLook In D&D it would be dangerous, because D&D is about combat and survival and winning. In Fate, it would be dramatic (and therefore fun!) because Fate is generally about building a story.

The GM describes the world and resolves actions for not-player-characters.

In fact, it's quite awesome. Takes a lot of the pressure off the GM and helps remind everyone at the table that they're there to have fun playing a game with friends, not to win an abstract conflict against rivals.

@EnderLook Basically, if you start with a pre-made plot like D&D often wants you to (and much of that is because it takes time to plan encounters, so you need to do that in advance) then derailing the plot is dangerous. If you start from a tense situation and build from there, it's just like having a lot more heads throwing their good ideas on the table. Sure, it's not a thing everybody likes (as I said, it requires improvising).

@BESW and of course there's still players who like winning conflicts against rivals, but I would suggest playing Agon to them.

Evil Hat recently started a line of RPG improvisation guides which look pretty great, btw.

@BESW For example, let me tell you something that happen the day before yesterday. A friend of mine come home to make a Final Practice Work for school. I don't know how we were talking about Macroeconomics (for the homework) when in a moment we jump to explaining him how to play D&D, and he was willing to join. When I told him about aligments, he said he wanted to be Evil in order to backstab players and betray them. In that moment I realised that I couldn't let him play with us.

His destructive nature could arruin everything. And you are talking about letting him run the story???

@EnderLook Relevant:

If he wants to play a character who backstabs other characters and all the players at the table agree that'd be a fun game, then that's totally okay.

But if he's playing to ruin other peoples' fun, then I wouldn't want him joining any of my games, regardless of system.

@BESW heck, let them play How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb Shelter XD

It's always bad to try and have a game system fix social problems. Fate recognizes that, and doesn't try to fill that gap.

Instead, Fate trusts us to be playing with friends who want to have fun TOGETHER and can work out differences between ourselves.

@BESW Every time I play a video game with him, he always betrays me and let me alone after I heal him! (I'm usually the support rol)

Then I'd stop playing video games with him too.

@EnderLook the question is, why are you still playing with him?

@BESW Yes, I did that!

Hopefully he will learn that backstabbing people makes you really lonely.

@Zachiel Have you played Aγων? I have only tried it once, in a Shadowrun hack.

(Unfortunately, mass online gaming will provide them lots of new players to backstab...)

If someone's not interested in my happiness, I'm not going to play games with them.

@Anaphory I played it once at a con. The part we saw was pretty robust, but I've been told the game has some bad bugs and exploitable mechanics.

@Zachiel Sometimes. But I don't have many friends to just throw away the bad ones... so I must to appreciate them with all their flaws.

So no, it's not dangerous for an RPG system to give story agency to players. It's dangerous to play games with dangerous people.

@Zachiel Unfortunately, he play MMO

D&D (and similar games) generally don't have a safe method of resolving character-vs-character drama. Fate does, as long as all the players agree to it.

@EnderLook Anyway, before playing I suggest using the Same Page Tool in order to make the desired party relationshiph explicit. Beware! It is not a survey, it's more like "this is what we will be playing, do you understand and agree?"

There are no game rules that can protect you from people who want to make real-life people unhappy, because they aren't playing the game everyone else is: they're using the game system as an excuse to justify bullying.

@BESW I wish I could star this twice

@BESW You have right

@MikeQ No worry. I've stared that your you!

@Ash I say it a lot.

@BESW That is 4 years ago. How did you remember that?

That's BESW's superpower

@BESW Ah, know I understand

(Another thing about not-D&D games, btw: many of them require far fewer players for the mechanics to work properly. Fate can work with just one player and one GM, though it's really better with at least two players.)

@BESW That is interesting

Which shall I read first Fate or Pathfinder?

As someone who began with Pathfinder and had been on a Pathfinder-rich diet for many years, I would recommend Fate

It would help break out of the D&D assumptions and habits

Ok

See also: Dungeon World? Maybe?

@BESW I've heard about it but I only find a very basic handbook, but I didn't understand the moves. I'll have to read it again.

I'm pretty sure there's an SRD-type thing somewhere.

@EnderLook I found Fate much easier to read in theory than Dungeon World, but more difficult to get to the table. Both of them seriously require throwing D&D ideas out of the window.

@Anaphory Ok

Dungeon World looks a lot like D&D, though, which can both help and hinder.

That would be better. So I will be able to understand what makes special D&D (by knowing the mechanism of other games)

Just as some systems are better suited for certain types of games, some games are better suited for certain types of players

That's why there is no "best" system

My group uses a dozen different systems depending on our mood.

@BESW The DW SRD does not come with all the example text, which I expect would be really useful for @EnderLook, though.

Ah, fair enough.

(It is on dungeonworldsrd.com)

Ok. So Fate or DW first?

@EnderLook I you have the opportunity to read exactly the two of Fate and Dungeon World, I would read Fate first.

@Anaphory Ok

@EnderLook The reason there is that it is precisely not D&D, so when you read Dungeon World after that, you have gained a bit of an eye for Non-D&D collaborative storytelling things and other general Non-D&D stuff, and will hopefully be less confused that Dungeon World is sometimes like D&D and sometimes not.

Ok!

(and once you have gone full circle, you might find things like DW vampire playbooks – I cannot say anything about its quality, but there are good Dungeon World supplement playbooks for sale, so if – after all of this exploration – that is what you and your brother want to do, it may be worth a look.)

Ok

Does anyone have experience with MySQL?

Long shot

@Ben select * from chat where experience > 0

@BESW Inspired by Skill in a LRP I played where in my down-to-earth faction “appropriate roleplaying” was usually “shout at them until they cave and go back to the front line”, I also had a 5E paladin who would ‘shout at people until they regain hit points’ for laying on hands.

@MikeQ ...>

@Ben I'm using t-SQL, if that helps

@MikeQ (at least that's what my SQLite – no pun intended – would answer, because you forgot the semicolon at the end)

@GreySage I need to restore my databases in MySQL after the server crash, and I don't (believe) I have any dump files to restore from

I have the table files, but that's it

does your character know the spell Commune with Database

@MikeQ It's not in my spell list, no.

@MikeQ I think he needs a Reincarnate Database.