@goodguy5 [thumbs up]. Maybe add something about limiting player choice in there?

yea. might as well

Like you are trading off a "Silly" interaction for player choice and fun.

Is that really a trade that is worth it? What is the priority here?

Sounds like Slagmouth is into the more complex rule sets. I would suggest a 3.5e campaign. Footing, armor type, etc... so many things to consider.

@goodguy5 I think your answer is as good as he's going to get for that. I especially like the "nature of the weapon" rationale.

^_^

@ColinGross No, I was refering to the meta post on designer intent questions.

@goodguy5 up to you but it reads as almost scolding in tone. Don't know if you want to soften that at all.

ugh. I hate thinking about other people's feelings.

I already did a lot of work to make it not seem mean

that wish question is generating old rep for me :)

@kviiri Man, wishes and wish-jacking have been fun since the game was started. Don't harsh the groove, bro.

@GreySage gotcha. I do think having some RPG knowledge helped me dig through stuff. However, collating poorly formatted or archived mail threads or web archives from 2007 does require skills beyond just google.

@NautArch heck yeah! Do I get a dupers cut of that rep?

For one of the questions I answers, I had some pretty involved programming to scrape together and collate the content of an old gygax interview.

There moose. did it

Also, WoTC got a bunch of crap unindexed from google. So you can't even find the cached copies easily.

@goodguy5 Nice! I think that is perfect.

I don't expect the run of the mill RPG expert to be able to build a Solr or ElasticSearch index from internet archive content.

i'm a bit shocked at the upvotes to simulacrum getting healing.

@Rubiksmoose FINALLY. I can get back to work lol

@NautArch talking about my answer?

What are you saying it is not good enough?! huh?! :P :)

@ColinGross That is interesting, but I'm not sure what prompted you to tell me that. I meant that there are several answers that just say "BURN THE TAG/QUESTION ARCHTYPE" and they all have upvotes, so that the answers that actually offer alternatives are pushed further down the page.

@Rubiksmoose the other answer, silly.

There is nothing inherently wrong with burning the question, but it should be expressed in 1 answer, not 4

@NautArch oh...yeah. I mean they have a point in that strict RAW does not forbid it. But that reading just makes no sense.

@GreySage in regards to the 4 answers that essentially say the same thing.

The gist of the arguments is that it's off topic because "google it" and it's time consuming for the mods.

@goodguy5 Nope

I agree with the later, but there are plenty of things that are beyond most people's google fu

@kviiri ah. how was your jogjog, thne?

@ColinGross Yeah, that might be a good reason to keep them around.

@Rubiksmoose specific over general, though. It specifically states how to repair.

and does not use the word "also"

@NautArch right right. I 100% do not agree with their opinion. Even without JC

Maybe, but if it's a time suck for the mods, maybe just have them post to reddit.com/r/dnd and see what they get.

@goodguy5 Decent. I'm not in a very good shape - one of the downsides to always having had a healthy diet and a natural predisposition towards slimness (read: inefficient digestion) is that I never really had to exercise to keep my weight in check. Which conveniently has deprived me of the other advantages of regular exercise too.

But I'm trying to learn to do this with some regularity now.

Like endorphins

@kviiri ah yea. I've started trying to be more active, myself.

Awwww man... those sweet endorphins... and so much dopamine at the end.

desk jobs make it difficult

True.... as I look menacingly at my desk.

@NautArch oh wow you are right about the voting I had no idea it had gone +4/-3

@Rubiksmoose my maladjusted mind always goes to upvotes because people want it to work like that.

I'm not salty that OP accepted the answer he wanted to hear about that sneak attack question... not at all. </salt>

Dangerously getting close to Be Nice here...but has anyone read the EN World article on Sean Patrick Fannon (Rifts dev?)

Meh. It's marked house rules.

@goodguy5 I hear ya. I've definitely gotten answers I didn't want, but I've still picked the one that was right.

I'm not set up at work to run the numbers, but the damage output for a Fighter 5/ Rogue 3 beats the damage output of either over time if you allow SA with a great sword

whoa whoa whoa...just noticed. Where's the Jeff tag?!

@ColinGross But...that's not the question?

@NautArch its been gone! For a week or more I think :'(

@Rubiksmoose poor jeff.

@NautArch the question is about balance according to the OP's subsequent comments.

@goodguy5 I'm salty for you honestly.

thanks. he un-accepted it, though

The accepted answer seems to represent the position that it's balanced.... now answer formerly known as accepted.

@ColinGross Right, but for Finesse weapons using strength - not for STrength weapons.

"So... If I can choose Strength with my finesse weapon what is the purpose of having an explicit limitation to certain weapons that can use Dexterity rather than Strength?"

especially because of how good dex is.

I thought he was asking why not allow STR weapons for SA

@ColinGross Hmm, that was not how I read it, but I could see that interpretation. May be worth commenting for a clarification. But given how the Q&A has gone, they are wanting to limit the current rules and not add to them (or remove something they added at their table)

It's @nitsua60! He killed Jeff!

Get 'em!

yea. he was wanting to ban strength-rogues

@goodguy5 SA used to be "backstab" and it was a damage multiplier. Which was pretty nuts, but the downside was you had to actually stab... and play a rogue.

I miss the higher crit-multiplier weapons from 3.x/pf

i.e. - the scythe

I liked 3.5 without the crit range expansion. It seemed fine with the exception of that nonsense.

@ColinGross generally speaking, I didn't like all of the extraneous weapons.

ah. we know you already have a shortsword, but here is a wakizashi... which is a better short sword.

I'm still generally underwhelmed with critical hits in 5e

^

@NautArch I like that they don't benefit the steady damage output classes, but really help the glass cannons of the rules.

crit with a rogue on SA is pretty nuts.

The only time it really feels awesome is when I crit with a level 4 divine smite. But that's pretty rare.

That's not bad either.

But i've got to say, at level 17 vengeance paladin with GWM, PAM, and Sentinel I now get at least 3 attacks, sometimes 4 and with Haste 5 with (if I hit with my +3 weapon) a minimum damage of 15 per hit.

I finally got my friends away from the "critical miss" bullshit they'd been playing with.

thank god

@ColinGross not happening with mine :(

Also got away from "critical skill check rolls"

that we don't do.

"oh yea. a 20th level fighter is four times as likely to stab himself each round as a level 1 fighter." </eyeroll>

Like 20 isn't an auto succeed and 1 isn't auto fail for checks.

@goodguy5 exactly.

but, i think, we still do autofail on a skill with 1.

@ColinGross To be honest, I don't mind missing on a 1. What I do mind is dropping my weapon on my foot, stabbing myself in the big toe, and then kicking my sword 20 feet away on a 1.

@NautArch it's REALLY hard for most characters to not fail on a one.

yeah, automiss is bad enough.

for an attack.

@goodguy5 not when you use proficiency die. I could roll a 10 on that die and that 1 is now an 11 (and next level I can roll a 12)

Also, i clearly meant level 16 pally :)

@goodguy5 at about L9 when some PCs have double proficiency... a 1 is a freaking 10 anyway.

@NautArch oh man! You guys are using proficiency dice! how is that?!

@goodguy5 i absolutely love it

more dice > more better

I've always thought about trying it with my group, but didn't want to add the counting (pun intended)

and I like the swinginess of it. Sometimes I can turn a bad roll into a great roll. Sometimes my okay roll just isn't good enough. It's the idea of you know how to do something, sometimes you do that thing really well, but sometimes you just muff it.

I can see that.

But it's really really rare that you just biff at a simple thing you do professionally.

@NautArch I feel like that randomness is already captured in the original die roll

@ColinGross I dunno, there are things i know how to do, and i can still screw them up for a variety of reasons both internal and external.

@NautArch like interacting with a water glass.... (or a beer)

@goodguy5 HAHAAH. yes!

I do as well, but the stuff I've done for a living or gotten really good at... I don't even think about the simple stuff anymore. I haven't messed it up in so long.

@Slagmoth If I can choose Strength with my finesse weapon what is the purpose of having an explicit limitation to certain weapons that can use Dexterity rather than Strength? The purpose is to allow more, not fewer, build options for players.

@ColinGross see above ^ you've never spilled a glass of water, imbibed down the wrong hole, blown your nose and didn't get it al lin the tissue?

But starting out... all the time... like every time.

An autofail 1 is muffing it 5% of the time though.

@ColinGross Oh! I think we've moved on to proficiency die. I firmly agree that 1s shouldn't be autofails for ability checks.

I spill fewer than 5% of the glasses of water I interact with. Also... i'm not ashamed to say I own and use sippy cups.

Gotcha. Sorry. Missed that.

@Slagmoth What's broken that needs fixing? The answer to your last sentence in the question is "base weapon damage is the limiter" but that does not address your larger concern. We had an answer that showed how little base weapon damage matters as a rogue goes up in level, but I can't figure out where it is ... and also .... see Swashbuckler rogue.

There is definitely a balance issue. If their attack stats are the same, rogues and fighters have similar damage potential. But strength can be raised above 20 by several magical means (potions and belts of Giant Strength, for example), while Dex can only be similarly boosted by a legendary item.

@kviiri That story is a nice example of how I imagine retired high-level wizards spend their time. They're done saving (or destroying) the world, so they've dedicated their energy toward pedantic legal debates with the forces of nature itself.

At higher levels, rogues may need to use Giant Strength items to keep their attacks competitively balanced with those of Fighters and other martial characters. If you cut off sneak attack with strength, you are declaring that these items are not usable by rogues.

@Gandalfmeansme Sneak attack damage dice overwrite all that damage rather quickly.

> where is that answer? Grrr. I'll go and find it

@KorvinStarmast ^^

Not true. The additional bonus is not only to damage, but to the probability to hit. By increasing your hit chance, you multiplicatively increase the expected value of your damage.

@Gandalfmeansme This seems to assume that a rogue using the other stat wouldn't pump it (for hit-chance) at the same rate?

Or are you only talking about the above-20 part of the play experience?

@nitsua60 yes. gloves/belt of ___ giant

Yup. The rogue cannot "pump" dexterity above 20 without a manual. While the fighter may be getting access to 21-25 scores in their attack stats from level 11 through 15.

Of course, this is all subject to DM's approval of certain magic items. But it's not exactly a rare feature of the game to have potions/belts of giant strength.

That's true. At least 21 and 23 str should be available to a L11 PC.

The 21 str potion is uncommon I think.

ugh. I'm going to have to edit my answer. -sigh-

@Gandalfmeansme Sorry, at those levels, with two daggers, a rogue attacks twice no matter what. Chance to hit when Proficiency bonus is +4, +5, or +6, then add +5 for dex ... and then the rogue is attacking with advantage often ... rpg.stackexchange.com/a/99844/22566

ALso, multiclassing is an optional rule as well.

@Gandalfmeansme Sorry, you seem to be using an exception to argue a balance rule, and No Magic Item is guaranteed to drop in any given game. (Though the str rogue finally gets a bit more "to hit" if that lucky day comes with the storm giant belt).

If you want to have a high damage bonus, a rogue could drink the same potion

@Gandalfmeansme It's worth noting that the Belt of Giant Strength does not increase your base or max Strength; it just sets your Strength score to a certain number

Questino has been edited

All the while, the price for not pumping dex gets paid in various coin: less stealth, less sleight of hand, etc.

With a finesse weapon, you can use the STR as your bonus to attack and damage.

@KorvinStarmast very good point! But you can still pump dex and get those gauntlets.

Also, ability score reductions apply to your base score, not the score from the item (twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/846382901147004929), so I assume ASIs work the same way

@NautArch Only if you get the gaunts

and a "Dex rogue" can still use ___ of Giant ___ to get more damage/to hit/ etc

@KorvinStarmast less init so you don't get to act first and blow up the mob of your choice...

@goodguy5 A dex rogue can actually use the Str items more than a Str rogue, since the Str rogue will naturally have a higher str.

right

@goodguy5 I concur, but the bonus from str to damage is just good for a consistent damage output. SA is bursty and outweighs a difference of +2

@ColinGross as was mentioned, it would also increase your chance to-hit by some amount. likely not super impactful, given the number of ways rogues can get advantage, but still.

Plus, that 4d6 sneak attack with a shortbow is an 8d6 5% of the time.

I never said that the rogue in question wouldn't pump Dex. Likely, the pumped it immediately, through level 6 or 8. Thus, they have all the things that a high Dex gives you. And certainly, if you don't give your characters the things that makes this unbalanced, it's balanced.

Advantage beats +5.

It's unbalanced if you allow non-finesse weapons to SA.

@KorvinStarmast Not really anything broken per se, like I mentioned it is more of a thematic change. I have edited the question a bit.

oh hai

That would make a fighter5/rogue3 beat a rogue8 or fighter8

@Slagmoth Ok, not sure how that was going. (I'd recommend against changing anything ...)

@KorvinStarmast I'm assuming you mean changing any rules not his question.

@ColinGross But already behind on one ASI ...

@KorvinStarmast I simply didn't like the whole idea and can't for the life of me justify using a Strength based weapon when the ability is limited to something that can use dexterity.

I'll check on this at home tonight and potentially edit my answer. about to leave work.

@KorvinStarmast I wasn't thinking in terms of fighting each other. I was thinking in terms of dmg output.

@Slagmoth It's not Strength based. That's the issue. All that finesse does is open the Option for dex. All weapons are strength based. maybe re read the finesse property?

@Slagmoth "something light or something that can use dexterity"

@ColinGross maybe in terms of pure damage output(maybe), but they'll miss 2 ASIs and some class features.

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, i will likely leave it as is... I already have House-Rules for SA for melee that prevent the RA thing which my players are fine with.

@ColinGross ANd behind on one SA die also.

@KorvinStarmast all melee weapons you meant

@Rubiksmoose Correct.

@Slagmoth RA?

@NautArch there are trade offs, of course. but a fighter gaining an additional 2d6 damage per round on top of great sword output adds up pretty quickly.

(sorry for the multiping)

The Str rogue gives up a little damage with the bows ....

@ColinGross again, can't use greatsword with SA

@goodguy5 Reckless Attack

Relentless Attack... the thing that brought the issue to my attention.

@ColinGross SA no workee with non finesse weapon?

oh, right

@NautArch That's what the question is about I thought. Allowing non-finesse weapons.

Errr.. not limiting to finesse

@ColinGross No, it was the inverse.

@ColinGross Highest damage output for a finesse weapon is 1d8 vs 2d6 or 1d10.

@ColinGross kind of. it's about banning strength attacks

@ColinGross No, it is about limiting finesse weapons to only using Dex.

@ColinGross No, it's about restricting SA to attacks that USE dexterity, (rather than ones that could).

LOL

Apparently I failed miserably in my query.

oh goodness. So sorry Colin for your notifications there.

@ColinGross what rubik said, and I think that nerf is not a good idea

What rogue in their right mind uses STR for sneak attack?!

One with a str of 16 and a dex of 16. Either workds

Always dex... even with matched 16's

@ColinGross or one with the Reckless Attack feature

Well, in that example it is moot isn't it Korvin?

One that has the potential to do more damage with strength attacks. Like a barbarian rogue, or a rogue under the effects of a potion or belt of giant strength.

@ColinGross There's a str rogue build idea that uses the grappler feat ... I think there's a long article on that in GiTP, no link .... sorry

@Slagmoth Well except for RA which I guess you've already dealt with.

Well, now that I think about it, I haven't...

@KorvinStarmast That's the grab-n-stab rogue. I've read something like that I think.

@ColinGross I need to book mark that build ... hmmm ... searching

My house-rule for SA is that you have to have advantage with melee, this requires flanking since I use that option, but the RA bypasses that anyway.

Oh well.

The lower damage of finesse weapons balances out the RA barbarian I expect.

@Slagmoth to me I just don't understand why it should be changed. These rule cause no issues and changing them only serves to limit player options. Sure it can seem a bit silly I guess, but so do so many of the rules. The focus of the game should not be on making sense of the rules, but having fun.

Not an issue yet as they have not come to a place where Barbarians are really a thing.

I am building a custom world so mostly this one was flavor, so not really an issue and likely wouldn't be yet, so meh.

@Slagmoth Did you see my comment on the claymore?

Obviously your table, your rules. I just think you might want to consider what you are prioritising here.

@NautArch Yeah that was sort of in response to GoodGuy's answer text.

@KorvinStarmast are you looking for enworld.org/forum/… ?

@Slagmoth honestly though, as a DM I'd love for my players to try the RA/SA thing. I'd send a bunch of minions at them and they are going to take significantly more damage (because enemies have advantage) then they get with SA.

@Slagmoth oookkk. Still kinda confused by it, though. to me, it makes the question confusing as it's bringing up something 100% unrelated.

@Rubiksmoose I understand the need for less complication but I really don't see how Strength gets applied to a Rapier for example.

@NautArch yeah, i removed it.

Comments are getting cumbersome though.

@Slagmoth coolio. I think if you remove the last sentence with "If so, why" then this question is no longer opinion-based.

@Rubiksmoose I usually do the opposite for my players. They build a fire resistant blacksmith turned whatever... they're fighting fire gremlins or something at least a few times.

@ColinGross Me too honestly. I was just pointing out that it was a strategy that easily can be exploited.

@ColinGross gotta do both! Give 'em times to shine, and give 'em times to make 'em sweat.

I don't punish my players for good strategy or character choices. But I would challenge them of course.

@NautArch Which is funny because that was the part I was trying to have my player convince me of.

The problem with changing the rules so they make sense is that it's a never-ending project.

True.

Oh yeah. True. Definitely illustrate the weakness of the issue with a multitude of stabby minions

I keep them to a bare minimum.

@Slagmoth heh :) Good for discussion, bad for stack.

@Slagmoth do you need to understand though?

@kviiri preach

@Slagmoth isn't bare minimum just stock ?

No.

No table plays without house rules...

Never seen one anyway.

@Slagmoth I mean technically any AL table does.

@Rubiksmoose understand what? I must have missed something.

Somewhere ... in some basement of an actuary or accountant....

@Rubiksmoose church

@Slagmoth why/how strength can be applied to a rapier.

@Rubiksmoose never played AL, after reading the way it works I never had any interest.

The pointy end goes into the other man? no? @Rubiksmoose

That is the truth...

@ColinGross so that's what I've been doing wrong.

Like a stiletto. Just takes a little bit of umph to get it through a leather jacket.

Not a lot of finesse except the placement. After that it's all pushing.

@Slagmoth oh yeah AL is definitely not for everybody. But they do play without houserules.

AL has some weird rules about what items you can just buy.

Like end of session, choose your reward style.

Money and items are kept tightly controlled because of the economy they try to create.

@Slagmoth question seems legit to me now. reopen vote placed.

Yeah, I just got tired of the boxed campaign worlds... they seemed too cosmo for me. My world is more segregated and right now the elves are actually the primary antagonists.

Thanks @NautArch

@Slagmoth i've never actually played a boxed world :)

Go Eberron if you want variety.

@NautArch Same

I liked Eberron tbh...

Mr. Baker still expounds on the variety afforded to you there.

But my players really didn't and I prefer lower magic overall.

I think he's running a wild west campaign.

in eberron

While I am here... anyone here have a way to balance a sort of regeneration for a PC race?

@Slagmoth I think that could be interesting. Was talking this morning(maybe?) about how I think my group hands out magic items too much.

@ColinGross what do you mean?

regen? Like the L7 spell as an ability?

Well, I am trying to make a custom race to add flavor to my world...

@nitsua60 Lemme find it.

@Slagmoth like how some monsters can regen HP each round if not taken damage of a certain type (usually fire?)

I was liking Trundle's backstory from LOL and was trying to figure out a way to give a Troll PC (medium) some sort of regen.

@Slagmoth compare with heavy armor master: taking a 3-pt haircut on damage is not, mathematically, too dissimilar to many regeneration ideas.

@Slagmoth Woot, Trundle goodness! :)

Hit points are, in 5e, a fundamentally limited resource that one can truly regain only through consumable items, long rests or resources expended per long rest (or some interesting multiclasses). So any regen ability I'd make would similarly be limited to a certain amount or range of HP between long rests.

That is an option... one i was thinking is that HD usage was always at least half... or maybe even double value and used as a bonus action per short rest.

Or maybe like Second Wind for free.

@Slagmoth Just learned about this today: Detect Balance: a 5e Homebrew Race Guide maybe you can find it helpful.

This looks like the point balance thing from 3.X/PF

Is that accurate?

@nitsua60 keith-baker.com/qbarra-campaign

@Slagmoth from what I understand, yes. Though I've only breifly gone over it. I cannot attest to anything beyond that I've seen it referenced.

I will take a closer look when I am at home, thanks.

@Slagmoth careful replicating feats or class abilities for free. Those tend to make any players of the class slighted. Like someone got their shiny thing for free.

Obviously the regen can't happen exactly like Trundle... can't just do it on enemy death :P

@Rubiksmoose personally, I find it is slightly off in some places but it's a good ballpark

@Slagmoth For attacks with melee weapons, use your Strength modifier for attack and damage rolls. A weapon that has the finesse property, such as a rapier, can use your Dexterity modifier instead Dex is an option, not a requirement. The default is to use strength. Page 9 basic rules. Also in PHB.

@ColinGross Indeed. It would be a slightly weaker version.

@ColinGross what's that have to do with AL?

I thought you were asking about the wild west campaign keith baker was running.

Lemme see if I can dig up a DM's rant on reddit about the magic item point buy system with AL

No, I asked in response to your:

(If you mouse over a message that's in reply to something--that has an arrow at the left end--you'll see the referent highlighted.)

@nitsua60 Comment clean up in aisle SA?

@Slagmoth Good buddy of mine was a collegiate level fencer at William and Mary in college. he plays eldritch knight in D&D 5e. uses his str mod for attack with rapier. Sees no problem with it. FWIW, and the old verisimilitude thing.

I prefer to keep the treasure organic they find what the find... if they can't use it they can barter or find a buyer or something... gives them ample opportunity to interact and find other hooks.

@ColinGross Let me stop you there: "magic item point buy system" already has nothing to do with AL.

@Slagmoth Yeah, I like that approach. It opens up so many adventure hooks ...

I am trying to find a way to keep Schemas from being abused though, but can't find a plausible solution. What I mean by that is Player A finds a schema/recipe for a Cloak of the Bat... what way is there to prevent them simply making dozens of copies and selling them? Having trouble with that.

@Slagmoth treat it like a scroll?

and not like a Witcher 3 formula :D

@NautArch Spell Scroll? That means it is only usable once... unless I implement like a recipe book similar to spellbooks but then you can copy out of that as well.

@Slagmoth exactly. THey get something neat they can use to make something. Once.

I still have to finish Witcher 3 :(

that removes abuse AND gives them the item.

I'm part way through the Blood and Wine expansion (finished Hearts of Stone)

Loving the game while my cheap self waits for the Fallout 4 DLC to hit 75% off on steam :P

I don't have time... been trying to finish my Weather Simulation API for RPGs and design my VTT.

@Slagmoth Me too! Such a good game...

And I have a 6-month old that is teething :(

@Slagmoth Great age, though. Personality development. I somehow have time to run a business, play games, play D&D about 1/week. read and sleep. I honestly have no idea how I do it. Maybe that explains my migraines.

@NautArch Well, wife and kid's are gone next weekend... maybe I can reacquaint myself with that 5 letter 's' word.

He is great though.

Huge and needy but great.

Do any of you use Weather to significant effect in you games?

@Slagmoth hahahaha. Time to stay up late :)

we have not really. There was some difficult terrain use from snowfall and marshland we had to deal with, but the frigid cold was mollified by an opportunity to get winter gear.

@Slagmoth Not really. Though we are in the underdark right now.

@NautArch yeah, I have never played in a game that utilized it much, and I always forgot in my own games. I started automating an old set of tables from 1981 AD&D and will shamelessly plug it when I find hosting.

Seems such an integral part of the setting.

I am running a tweaked version of the Sinister Secret of the Salt Marsh during Winter... which changes half the encounters in the house.

Can't have spiders in the Winter obviously.

@Slagmoth will there be mechanical consequences? will players be able to prepare for them? Do you use encumbrance rules?

Yes, Yes and Yes.

Then go for it!

Snow shoes, winter clothing, mounts.

it turns things into a bit of a minigame, but that can be fun if the table wants that.

And memorable.

Possibly even reusable... during the summer the other animals move back in :)

Thanks for the help guys... getting ready to head out form work. Have a good evening.

and girls...

if applicable.

@Slagmoth I played a Pathfinder game where the GM suddenly took away our magic and threw us from a temperate climate to an Ice Age. It became kind of a slog that I didn't appreciate.

@GreySage Ugh. I am not a fan of taking away stuff.

@NautArch Nope. Taking away things is only ever at most fun for the DM.

@Rubiksmoose Especially when it's presented like "do it or TPK"

not that i'm speaking from experience(s) or anything. nope, not me.

@NautArch Definitely.

@NautArch No of course not, why would you be?

@nitsua60 there is an AL magic item buy with DM rewards.... But I don't think that's what he meant7

Oh hey, someone mentioned LoL?

Actually, if you want to make a Trundle-ish character, I would actually look more into replicating his ult rather than his passive.

Outside of personal preference, Trundle is picked because of his ability to steal tankiness from other characters rather than any sort of regeneration ability.