TRPG General Chat

David Coffron

17:00

As is, I felt the need to get alert as an assassin just so i can get my attacks off

Sir Cinnamon

Huh - I guess i've been playing it a bit wrong. I considered a creature surprised until it takes it's first turn

first turn that it can act

But the rules don't exactly say when surprise ends... to be honest they kind of imply "surprised" lasts the whole combat

Mike Q

@goodguy5 That's what the surprise round is for. During the first round (the surprised round), only the non-surprised creatures get to take a turn.

goodguy5

well, 5e doesn't have a "surprise round", it has the "surprised condition", which ends after your turn

Sir Cinnamon

PHB doesnt clarify when surprise ends but Sage Advice does

"In effect, a surprised creature skips its first turn in a fight. Once that turn ends, the creature is no longer surprised."

dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-november-2015

goodguy5

yes that

assassin is the first thing that comes to mind as benefiting from this. there may be others

Sir Cinnamon

17:04

I still am going to play with "surprise round" i think

doppelgreener

surprise round: when the grid isn't using squares

David Coffron

@goodguy5 be careful calling surprised a condition. It doesn't work the same way as other conditions. I refer to it as "surprised stare"

goodguy5

@DavidCoffron what do you mean? it IS a condition.

David Coffron

@goodguy5 it's not on the condition appendix and no where do the rules call it a condition

It just says "If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends."

GreySage

@goodguy5 It is less formal than a condition

Rubiksmoose

17:12

dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/…

0xFFF1

@goodguy5 @SirCinnamon @DavidCoffron
well, it having a first turn, even if it must do nothing on it because of the "Surprised" condition that goes away at the end of a creature's turn, means it still took that turn. Thus rolling a higher initiative than the assassin rogue means the assassin rouge doesn't get advantage, nor do they auto-crit. And rolling lower means you get one chance advantage and autocrit

Having a surprise round means the assassin rogue always gets the advantage and autocrit, and then again if they have a higher initiative.

David Coffron

@0xFFF1 agreed. 5e has a surprise state that goes away after the surprised creatures first turn

Sir Cinnamon

@0xFFF1 Surprise round could be played that way, but it could also be played that all surprise goes away at the end of the round, so its impossible to ge tthe autocrit twice

But guaranteed to be possible once

Which yes, is a buff to Assassin Rogue undeniably

0xFFF1

I've honestly never heard of anything but the surprise round mechanics

David Coffron

There are 3 housrules suggest here with various levels of usefulness (I list in order) to the assassin. The surprise round, surprise goes away at the end of the 1st round, passive initiative for surprise

0xFFF1

17:18

grew up on 3.5e tho

GreySage

@0xFFF1 Assassin Rouge (Rare Magic Item): Any creature who inhales this red powder takes 6d12 poison damage (Con save for half)

0xFFF1

@GreySage did i really make that typo?

GreySage

@0xFFF1 Indeed

0xFFF1

@GreySage oof

David Coffron

15

Q: At which moment does the 'Surprised' state disappear?

I am trying to figure out if the surprised state ends on a creature after the first attack of a surprise round, or if the surprised state (which I would then see almost as an unofficial condition) ends only after the first round of combat. In the second case, I would believe that a character (ha...

Sir Cinnamon

17:19

The most paramount of embarassing typos in a dnd chatroom

0xFFF1

@SirCinnamon i got it 2/3 times

GreySage

Assassin Rouge can also be applied to the face, giving advantage to Perform (Acting) checks, and the user can poison a character by nuzzling.

Sir Cinnamon

@0xFFF1 3/4 I spot

0xFFF1

one at the end, quite.

goodguy5

(sorry, stepped away)

0xFFF1

17:22

don't worry, you probably forgot that you cast Time Stop

David Coffron

That spell. Ugh. My players were a nightmare

It was even the spell effect that was the problem. (With 9th level spells you effect ridiculous things). They just spent a good 15 minutes figuring out how best to use the free turns.

goodguy5

@DavidCoffron huh.... I'll be danged. I thought for sure it was a condition. Though, it does end after your turn.

David Coffron

It was a condition in 4e IIRC

Is* I guess

goodguy5

I like the surprised state over the surprised condition because I don't like things not getting "a turn", even a "turn" where they cannot do anything.

This is somewhat useful for spell effects.

Wizard cast flaming sphere on a surprised enemy.
A surprise-round negates a round of damage

unless you also tack on more house rules that "well, they automatically take the damage"

0xFFF1

which reminds me.
assuming you crafted a magic item beforehand that can create a permanent Gate spell when activated, you can kill all of psionics in your DM's universe in just a few turns by teleporting to the place in the Astral Plane where arcane power funnels into the material plane for use by psions, place the gate there and point it to the Abyss.

or something like that

mind flayers get sexxed hard

David Coffron

17:30

If that's how it works in your DMs universe...

0xFFF1

yes

blocked by DM Fiat

SPavel

requires DM fiat to work*

Why are you assuming that "arcane power" would just flow right into your gate

goodguy5

oh yea

0xFFF1

you put the gate over the funnel

goodguy5

Yea, but then some devil just puts up another gate from the abyss. OR you get a bunch of devil psions

SPavel

17:31

If you put a portal to the abyss into the Nile, like 0.001% of the Nile at best will go in, the rest will go on as always

GreySage

@0xFFF1 related: "49. Reformed illithid working as hair stylist falls under suspicion."

SPavel

And that's a physical thing (water). You are assuming that a metaphysical thing (arcane power) works the same way.

GreySage

How do you do quote blocks in chat?

goodguy5

> it might be the same as the oversite. indeed it is. use ' >'

0xFFF1

@goodguy5 i don't believe in the existence of expletives. Are you really saying that your belief system trumps mine?

GreySage

17:33

>Does this work?
> Does this work?

David Coffron

> test

goodguy5

@0xFFF1 wat

GreySage

@0xFFF1 If people can believe the Earth is flat, then this doesn't surprise me.

0xFFF1

apples and oranges, my dude

SPavel

The Earth is flat, but it's flat in a curved space-time so it looks round

0xFFF1

17:35

kek

SPavel

The eagle is asleep

0xFFF1

has it landed?

David Coffron

If the universe is flat, as some physicists think, why isn't everything on it flat... (obviously in jest, I know the difference of the terms)

0xFFF1

Geodesics are fun

David Coffron

Btw for the longest time I was so confused about what all the random eagle messages were about. It was a bit scary

SPavel

17:37

@DavidCoffron Because we are paying for a 3rd dimension so it would be a waste not to use it

goodguy5

Has anyone read flatland?

0xFFF1

okay, riddle me this, if space is curved, where does it curve into?

David Coffron

Nothing

SPavel

@0xFFF1 Itself

@goodguy5 Yes

goodguy5

@SPavel that's what the "we're paying for a third" reminded me of

0xFFF1

17:39

@goodguy5 out of all of everyone everywhere everytime, probably.

David Coffron

Space isn't curved in the conventional sense. It just has the effect of what a 4d curve would be. We can't look at the universe from outside to know exactly what that looks like

0xFFF1

i mean, we invented planes submarines and spaceships for that purpose

having 3D movement is pretty valuable

Rubiksmoose

@0xFFF1 don't you mean planes trains and automobiles?

0xFFF1

no

trains and automobiles are 2D movement

Rubiksmoose

@0xFFF1 Maybe your trains are.

0xFFF1

17:41

maglev doesnt count because the leviatation is still bound to geodesics

Rubiksmoose

fwiw I was joking

goodguy5

@0xFFF1 yea.... with THAT attitude

0xFFF1

fwiw I was also joking

Rubiksmoose

:thumbs up: :)

insert backtothefuturetrain.jpg

0xFFF1

me_irl

goodguy5

17:43

@Rubiksmoose as you asked

Rubiksmoose

Thank you kindly good sir

(so fast too well done)

goodguy5

tbh, I was already searching before you mentioned it

0xFFF1

@Rubiksmoose has anyone solved you yet?

SPavel

@0xFFF1 Isn't that just being a PC

Rubiksmoose

@0xFFF1 No, all the moose parts keep getting in the way.

0xFFF1

17:45

that's awkward

Rubiksmoose

Right?

David Coffron

You look pretty solved from.this angle so they got pretty close

0xFFF1

@SPavel personal computer? Politically Correct? that's all the expansions of that acronym i tend to use.

goodguy5

@0xFFF1 Player Character

0xFFF1

@DavidCoffron actually, from that configuration, there's no way he isn't solved.

@goodguy5 oh yeah duh

Mike Q

17:47

PC

PC or pc may refer to: == Arts and entertainment == Player character or playable character, a fictional character controlled by a human player, usually in role-playing games or computer games Port Charles, an American daytime TV soap opera Production code number, a designation used to identify television episodes == Organizations == === Government agencies === Peace Corps, a volunteer program run by the United States government Philippine Constabulary, a defunct police force Libyan Presidential Council Privy council, a body that advises the head of state of a nation Queen's Privy Coun...

David Coffron

@0xFFF1 you are assuming he is a 3d cube

Rubiksmoose

Technically if you created a very polite windows-based robot for a character it would be a PC PC PC

David Coffron

@Rubiksmoose my next character. Mark my words

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron Consider them marked

@0xFFF1 jokes on you, the antlers are rotated wrong. it is the secret last step. don't tell anybody.

Mike Q

@Rubiksmoose If you dip into the Police Commissioner prestige class, then you get a PC PC PC PC PC

nitsua60

17:55

@DavidCoffron If it's actually a question of yours go ahead and ask it. I'll say, though, that "I'm curious" tends not to lead to great Q&A--it's not verboten but experience tells us they tend to be lower quality than "actual" questions that arise when trying to accomplish something.

goodguy5

@MikeQ is that compatible with the time weasel?

David Coffron

@nitsua60 i had that thought. I just decided to do some research and run it by a few friends of mine

0xFFF1

@Rubiksmoose polite =/= political correctness.
The former is a technique of social interaction when it is more desirable to acquire or maintain another person's positive disposition towards you than to optimize for any other factors during the stage in which the level of familiarity and other social factors with each other are most strongly dominated by recency and / or mutual neutral dispositions.

The latter is an ideological stance and method of behaviour meant to signal that you have as many nonnegative traits as possible to as many people or groups of people as possible, as a means of …

SPavel

It is polite to be PC though

Rubiksmoose

@0xFFF1 yup, but it is pretty hard to fit that into a pithy one-liner.

0xFFF1

18:01

@SPavel depends on who you ask

@Rubiksmoose it's fun for me to try to be verbose

and overly lingusitically specific

GreySage

@0xFFF1 Are you aware that you can link chat messages to other specific messages? You might be doing this already, but if you hover over a message you can see a little arrow on the right side.

Mike Q

@SPavel Not necessarily. It's possible to be very PC and come off as pretentious or condescending

David Coffron

@GreySage I find that fairly tedious (especially on mpbile). It autolinks to the most recent message sometimes

SPavel

@MikeQ PC can also stand for "pretentious and condescending"

0xFFF1

politeness is implicitly not required when the level of positive or negative familiarity is sufficiently high, or when it is not advantageous nor disadvantageous to acquire a significant nonzero disposition with a specific person.

whereas being PC has to be an always on sort of thing or don't bother

David Coffron

18:12

@0xFFF1 I think PC has the same factor as politeness. I make non-PC jokes more with my close friends then I would with strangers in the same way that I don't feel the need to always be polite.

0xFFF1

The major difference between the two is that politeness is for when dealing with individuals, whereas Political correctness is for dealing with groups of people; Being polite or not only affects individual relationships.

Being Politically Correct only ever works because a person you're not being PC with could threaten to alert their social group in order to shun you en masse. If you don't care about being PC, you don't care about being shunned. You still have the potential to form relationships with people who also don't care about being PC, which is honestly plenty of people.

NautArch

18:44

Warning: this conversation may veer into violation of Be Nice.

Rubiksmoose

Though it seems that the conversation has died there. Which is fine by me. Good warning though.

David Coffron

@NautArch thanks. I was trying my best to avoid that direction, focusing on the implementation of PC rather than examples. It's an easy topic to get directed towards unfriendly discourse

David Coffron

19:08

I love the birds-apparently tag here. Thank ypu

Rubiksmoose

birds-apparently

@DavidCoffron oh man I didn't notice that! :D

GreySage

Did the eaglecam shut down for the night?

Sir Cinnamon

19:24

likely

doppelgreener

19:42

5

Q: Teams/Theme.css gives a 404, which causes notification and achievement boxes to not disappear after reading

When opening my inbox on on MSE, MSO, SU or SO I see a 404 resource not found for: https://meta.stackoverflow.com/teams/theme.css?v=10056:1520526728:10063:1520539764 Notice the /teams/ there. I'm part of the teams beta on Stack Overflow but this issues hunts me on every site. Due to this error...

bug design 404-not-found

Inbox & rep notifications aren't disappearing. They're looking into it.

NautArch

dupe with what's linked in the comments? I have a feeling it's different enough to NOT be a dupe.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Yeah I've been looking at this as well. Tough call, but technically different since the linked Q allows magic items. My inclination is to say that it is enough differentiation, but these are not my favorite types of questions.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose that's my hunch and putting up an answer.

goodguy5

quittin time. good weekend all

Rubiksmoose

19:57

@NautArch I'd be cautious about putting up an answer. I have no idea how many requirements are going to change from OP in response to my comment. Could be none, but could be a lot.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose yeah, i decided against and I think the other answer has it (even with the Unearthed Arcana background in it)

what's interseting is that a Barbarian at level 20 can have a permanent walking around AC of 30 with no magic items or buffs (or 24 if no defensive duellist reaction).

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Do you know what the highest AC you can get from True Polymorph is? Or Shapechange? I don't know, but I'm curious.

NautArch

Tarasque is highest AC monster in non-module options with 25.

Tiamat is also 25, i think

looks like @SevenSidedDie marked it as a dupe

Simon H.

20:17

that's not a dupe at all.

NautArch

@SimonH. i wasn't sure, but didn't think it really was either

Rubiksmoose

can always vote to reopen.

Simon H.

@NautArch the magic items change the answer completely

@Rubiksmoose please do

NautArch

20:37

Ugh. I'm sorry @SevenSidedDie I forgot that my gold badge can un-dupe hammer. I still think it should be closed as unclear, though.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch voted that way as well

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose was just reading an article about who might replace rosenstein if he's fired. And it's an ex-boyfriend of my sister.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch oh wow!

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose from quite a long time ago, but was still surprising to see his name.

David Coffron

@NautArch I thought Rachel Brand takes that position if rosenstein is fired. Shes the Associate Attorney General

SPavel

20:46

@DavidCoffron Interim perhaps, but they have to appoint someone

Or confirm her as permanent, I think

nitsua60

@GreySage Comes back within 5 or 6 hours. I've seen it up and running as early as 0530 local (Estonian), and the image is pretty good. Then as the sun rises the image sharpens up and one realizes how dark it must have been before.

NautArch

@DavidCoffron Apparently the Solicitor General is another possible option?

@nitsua60 is that what EST stands for? P

Sir Cinnamon

@NautArch Eagle Sleepy Time

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch @SirCinnamon XD

Axoren

21:36

@nitsua60 I definitely wouldn't say that so bluntly.

More like a juxtaposition of "These are the guidelines" and the fact that they're getting downvoted, allowing them to come to their own conclusion.

nitsua60

@Axoren I try to be polite, kind, and direct. Fluff doesn't help someone learn the site's ways--"I think this is too broad: it seems to me you're asking X, Y, and Z all in one and they're not obviously related. I suggest you ask them separately--there's no stigma against multiple, good questions around here!" &c. &c. &c.

Axoren

Is that a way to spell etcetera?

&c?

nitsua60

@Axoren I don't know--I think that speculating about how others are voting is noise. If you think something's a flaw and it might be why others are downvoting, just say you think it's a flaw and leave it at that.

@Axoren yeah. The "et" in et cetera is Latin: "and".

(Cetera = "other things")

Axoren

I've never seen someone short hand it by hitting just as many keyboard keys before.

lol

nitsua60

so "etc." and "&c." are both just abbreviation/conjunctions.

Axoren

21:41

Every time you edit a message with a mention of me, it re-thunks

nitsua60

Yeah, sorry.

Axoren

Never noticed it before

I think that's neat, actually

Because sometimes, someone will make a change that completely changes the message and if you don't catch it visually, you wouldn't know they continued with the thought

But yeah, I just don't feel right being too direct about stuff to a new user, because we've all been there.

I think if someone's willing to make an account to take part in the discussion, letting them come to their own conclusions that they're not meeting standards might be better than telling them and placing Negative GBPs on their answers.

But the direct method will definitely get the point across more efficiently.

David Coffron

@Axoren Here's how I see it (I was new fairly recently). The direct notices of how to behave on the site were extremely useful for site policies. If I only got downvotes, I would have no idea what I should do differently. Now I am firmly familiar with almost all of things to do and all of the things not to do. I never felt like people were attacking me for being new (in fact I probably would have felt that more if I just got a bunch of downvotes with no definitive reasons).

Axoren

@DavidCoffron You may have missed part of the discussion. We were discussing the difference between "Welcome, to the site. You may want to look at our posting guidelines." and "This question/answer has flaws and here are the flaws I find with it."

They aren't just getting downvotes in my case, they're getting pointed to resources.

I assume in nitsua's hypothetical, they would also get pointed to the same resources.

It's definitely a good perspective from a recently new user that those types of discussions don't feel antagonistic or anxious.

David Coffron

@Axoren Ah. Sorry to dive into the conversation on the wrong information. I usually direct people to the tour and the guidelines following up with specific reasons for what to change.

Axoren

21:52

I feel like anywhere in the middle ground between both sides is perfectly fine.

As long as they can figure out how to post good

David Coffron

Like "Welcome. Here's the tour. That will give you an idea as to how things work here, especially pay attention to [guideline]. For your question/answer, [specific suggestion]"

Axoren

Yeah

David Coffron

I think I've used that exact template multiple times before (incidentally)

Axoren

That's more nitsua's position, but I believe we were discussing at an earlier point whether or not to state that the person posting the guidelines would be saying "I'm downvoting you because of X, Y, and Z"

Like, telling someone "You're getting downvoted because your question has X flaw" is a bit much unless they ask why they're being downvoted.

It's a very egg-on-your-face situation when you think you were being helpful, I bet.

Whereas just being gently led to the guidelines would be less so

David Coffron

@Axoren My advice to anyone new would be, don't stress too much over downvotes. I know it can be annoying if you are trying to join the community, but everyone starts somewhere; your answers will improve with time.

Axoren

21:57

You only get so much room in a comment for the prep talk, though :P

David Coffron

I went back and edited a few of my first answers (formatting mostly, but also to make them more universal/helpful)

Shalvenay

22:16

hey there @Tiggerous, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

hey as well @MikeQ

BESW

@Rubiksmoose I first read that as Using the Creation spell to smash foes with a heavy block of meta, and I thought "Yeah, meta can be pretty lethal sometimes."

nitsua60

23:09

@Axoren Sorry, I'm not sure I was clear. I'm in no way advocating that one should always leave such a comment. I'm saying that when one leaves a comment trying to point out areas of improvement, I think it shouldn't be speculative: it should be things that you actually think are flaws.

(cc: @DavidCoffron ^^)

doppelgreener

23:24

If you're happy and you know it…

Tweeted by MumblingNerd on April 12, 2018 at 11:29 AM

BESW

David Coffron

I only clasp my ham when I have 4 arms and dyslexia (and for some reason ham instead of hands... I didn't think this through)

@Rubiksmoose I follow through with my marked words: drive.google.com/open?id=15Vww4y3K0UqCrIxxJ693vSMm_jsr4S6X | The Bauen race is just a reskinned Tiefling based on the Modron (all features the same mechanically) | The Windows Employee background is a custom background based on Guild Artisan | Replace Common with Modron (from background); I'm just gonna pretend I got Infernal from my background instead (flip them for roleplay purposes)

Now I just have to find someone who will let me play this character... :)

nitsua60

23:47

@Axoren (And I don't believe I mentioned listing X, Y, Z as downvote-reasons: I try to stick to the one or two really big things, so as not to overwhelm a new user with a checklist/to-do list. When I said "X, Y, Z" it was in a hypothetical situation when a user was asking a bunch of questions in one post.)

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