TRPG General Chat

kviiri

13:00

For punches, they're obviously weaker than a proper melee weapon, while a newcomer to DnD probably won't know enough about the combat dynamics or "slog" to determine how much the game slows down when people start taking and dealing less damage.

goodguy5

You're removing a learning experience.

Jimmy has this "great idea" to wear full plate, take the defense style, and wield two shields.

Fear his 23 AC.

He will quickly realize that he can't do anything in combat and isn't having fun.

Jimmy sells his spare shield and swings a longsword. problem solved.

kviiri

@goodguy5 I'm all in for removing unneeded learning experiences, yes.

goodguy5

Ah, that's a fundamental difference, then

say no more ^_^

NautArch

@goodguy5 Friendly reminder about the Barbarian in my group with his unarmored AC of 27 :)

goodguy5

@NautArch uh.........

kviiri

13:01

@BESW Even for system mastery games, I think good trap options should be properly bad, not just "about as powerful but boring".

NautArch

@goodguy5 Yup. GOod rolled stats, manual of bodily health increase and a +3 shield.

BESW

@kviiri Agreed, though "boring" is subjective enough that it starts to become a designer manifesto choice.

goodguy5

24 con, 20 dex gets you to 22.

Then shield? for 24

Then some magic shenannigans.

@NautArch ah, that'll do it.

NautArch

@goodguy5 Great for him, sucks for me. My AC20 is meaningless when the DM is swinging for AC 27.

BESW

I think it's also important to remember that there are a great many RPGs where system mastery is a flat line.

NautArch

13:02

And why my paladin does his best to Kite now.

goodguy5

yea.... I'm not even sure what can regularly hit that.

BESW

The relative merits of different kinds of system mastery can be interesting, but that whole conversation is just one pocket of the RPG spectrum.

goodguy5

@NautArch you might as well see if you can get polymorphed into a celestial or something lol.

NautArch

@goodguy5 We're a level 16 party and the DM throws a lot of very tough fights our way. But as I said, it means I get hit a lot more than I probably should.

@goodguy5 nah, I just hit level 16 Vengeance Paladin and am rolling with GWM, GWF, Sentinel, and PAM. On top of my Pegasus whenever possible.

goodguy5

@NautArch christ. I forgot how silly high levels get.

NautArch

13:05

When I use my reaction to for PAM, i'll probably not go with GWM so i can guarantee the hit and stop their movement and Vengeance pally lets me move half my speed further away.

Rubiksmoose

Quick question, is it fair to say that we generally don't want people to cite whole spells etc. when not necessary partially due to copyright concerns?

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 You are invited to review this answer on armor class using an unarmored barbarian and the answer above it that exploits medium armor mastery.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose I think that's generally the case. We cite what's necessary, not entirety.

@KorvinStarmast btw, love the rust monster answer. Freaking hilarious and getting upvotes as it deserves :)

But no love for the rustmonsters overcoming the odds?

goodguy5

not to self....
Make a wizard with a topiary of statues purposefully carved with lifelike faces in looks of horror and surprise

Rubiksmoose

also good morning

NautArch

13:15

@Rubiksmoose and good morning to you

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 congrats on that pirate answer btw. I thought yours was indeed more helpful for OP(you had my updoot a long time ago). I am afraid that OP is just going to go ahead with the more complicated route. But, live and learn eh?

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Well, the dice are fickle, maybe they don't turn into statues. I still get the idea that they mostly annoy the Gorgon, and if they keep at it the Gorgon's may just lay a beat down on them.

goodguy5

thanks ^_^
Yea. I am concerned for the same, but they'll figure it out. Hell, maybe his party will enjoy it, who knows?

@KorvinStarmast looking it over.

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 Weirder things have certainly happened.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Heh, definitely. But still no way they affect the gorgon with their rust.

Ryan

13:17

morning all

NautArch

I read the description of the Gorgon as an organic metal.

@Ryan morning!

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 I still have an unorthodox Barbarian idea that starts with a dex build, and hopes to get later in life a belt of Giant Strength or gauntlets of ogre strength, and uses Shield Master as the only feat. However, I doubt I'll end up in a game with that build.

Ryan

@kviiri yeah we just experienced this for the first time last night as we've done things in a pretty strange order

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast That is kind of Bludfont's plan :)

goodguy5

that reminds me, does anyone have the text for gleaming armor on hand?
Is it actually immune to rust? (i.e. - immune to rust monsters)

KorvinStarmast

13:20

@NautArch Yeah, you might say that the Gorgon is made of stainless steel, or what is now known as CRS (Corrosion Resistant Steel) but which I always associate with my own CRS syndrome (Can't remember Stuff)

Ryan

Got a question that I'm not sure if there's a way to word it to remain open. Basically "What uses for Reactions are available to a College of Whispers Bard?"

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Yeah, a great idea IMO if we can find him gaunts or a belt later in life. Would be tres cool.

Rubiksmoose

@Ryan what feature specifically?

82

Q: Why is the D&D gorgon a metal bull?

In mythology, the gorgons were Medusa and her sisters; snake-like beings who petrified those who saw them. In Dungeons & Dragons, gorgons are bulls with metal scales and the ability to breathe petrifying gas as an attack (AD&D, 3.5): Is there any material (book or interview quotes, forum post...

this is the only reason I know what a D&D gorgon is btw

Ryan

@Rubiksmoose dont have one, thats what im trying to figure out. dawned on me last night that my Bard doesn't seem to have any spells or abilities to use on Reaction so wondering if I'm missing something or Whisper doesn't get any

NautArch

@goodguy5 "This armor never gets dirty."

Not sure if rust is dirt, but I'd think maybe not?

i dunno, DMs call.

ask the question!

goodguy5

13:22

@NautArch I thought there was more to it.

@NautArch and maybe I will, but I need to pull up the text for it. just a pain at work because my usual tools are blocked lol

Rubiksmoose

@Ryan so you definitely have some reactions

You can take opportunity attacks for example, and cast reaction spells

Ryan

I don't think Bard gets any reaction spells unless they're above Level 4 or I missed one

Rubiksmoose

@Ryan that I'm not 100% sure on offhand

NautArch

@Ryan counterspell via magical secrets

Ryan

(not including ones from other classes)

NautArch

13:24

@Ryan that's where it gets tricky. Spells that are reaction spells are all potentially available via magical secrets. If you give us your spell list, we can narrow it down to the reactions you have available.

Ryan

@NautArch yeah I'm 3 levels away from Magical Secrets so only looking at spells from within the Bard class

Rubiksmoose

@Ryan I'm having a bit of an issue understanding what the core of the question is here. You definitely have some things you can do as reactions (OAs) do you need more? Are you wanting a full list of every reaction-based action you can take?

NautArch

@Ryan Ok,cool. If you add your current level to provide that limitation, it's very easily answered. But also include No Feats as another way to limit possible reactions.

Ugh, hit the "must have word from Jeremy Crawford to accept an answer" wall.

Ryan

@Rubiksmoose yeah I need more. If you get for example Movement, Action, Bonus Action, and Reaction but have no way to use one of them the majority of the time its a big detriment.

NautArch

@Ryan not hard to list given the parameters I requested above.

Rubiksmoose

13:28

@Ryan Generally we don't really do questions that just ask for a list of things in response. It will likely get closed as written.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose @Ryan I dunno, i've seen those asked and answered. As long as the requirements are clear, it seems like a stack friendly question.

KorvinStarmast

@Ryan Reaction is built as a contingent piece of the action economy; something else has to happen first for a reaction to occur. The other bits are based on initiating an action, bonus action, move, or interaction with an object.

Not sure how that is a "big detriment" ... I'll review the question again.

Rubiksmoose

@Ryan Hmmm...I'm not sure I really understand this. Sure having more uses for your reaction is better, but reactions are based on things to trigger it. Additionally, some classes have more abilities that make use of it than others and that is just the way things are built.

NautArch

@Ryan In general, reactions won't come up all that often unless you've been building something to get more (like my 16th level paladin with Sentinel and Polearm Master.)

Rubiksmoose

@Ryan Feather fall is a 1st level Bard spell with a casting time of reaction btw.

And is, in fact, the only reaction spell Bards get to learn outside of Magical Secrets (as far as I can tell).

Ryan

13:36

@Rubiksmoose hey found one! thanks. that's unfortunate but guess thats the breaks :|

NautArch

@Ryan The Lore Bard has a more always-on option with their Cutting Words.

Ryan

@NautArch yeah I know that one. trying to find uses for it as a Whisper Bard and guess Im just stuck not really having any other than OA until I hit level 10 and only then if I take a spell that is on Reaction

Rubiksmoose

@Ryan oh were you only looking for reaction spells then?

Ryan

@Rubiksmoose are there other uses for reactions?

i mean for a Bard

like I know Monk gets Deflect Missiles for example on reaction but that hardly helps a Whisper Bard

NautArch

@Ryan I wouldn't worry about it too much. Reactions just aren't that common of a thing unless you're making a build where you can take advantage of more triggers (like my paladin because I want to hit things more)

Ryan

13:43

donjon.bin.sh/5e/spells

ah just found that page. guess there just aren't a lot of spells in general for reaction

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Yeah reactions are never something I am trying to use efficiently really (as a bard in my campaign). They are something that are always situational by definition.

NautArch

@Ryan just 6 official

@Rubiksmoose My lore bard uses it for Cutting Words most often.

Sir Cinnamon

@Ryan I would say reaction's are used maybe 1 in 5 turns (by a single person) - and 80% of the time thats an Opportunity attack or readied action

NautArch

my table is currently debating rogue sneak attack on an OA

they don't want to allow it (which is funny, because the guys who don't want it or the ones with rogues)

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch same, but there it comes with a resource cost (inspiration dice) as you know. So it is more about wise use of resources than efficient use of actions for me.

Sir Cinnamon

13:46

@NautArch I would allow it but only if you didnt sneak attack on your turn

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Yup, exactly. I like helping out my fellow players, but i often find that the cutting words is better than the inspiration die Bonus Action giving.

@SirCinnamon That's what they're asking for. But the rules seem pretty clear it's legit. I mean, in order to get it, the ROgue has to be next to someone (dangerous) AND have advantage. That's a lot of ifs for the rare OA opportunity to begin with.

Rubiksmoose

I personally don't see any issue with Rogues getting sneak attack on OAs at all.

@NautArch Same! I use cutting far more often.

Sir Cinnamon

@NautArch I suppose that's true - for the purpose of requiring an adjacent ally how does that work? An ally has to be a adjacent to the square the target leaves that triggers the OA?

kviiri

There's a known "exploit" where the rogue multiclasses as Fighter for the action surge, uses one action to sneak attack and the other action to Ready an attack against the same target with a trigger that fires as soon as possible after the Rogue's turn (the good old "anything perceptible happens" trigger works).

NautArch

@SirCinnamon Exactly.

Sir Cinnamon

13:50

@NautArch So an intelligent enemy could even skirt to avoid the sneak attack potentially? That seems alright then

NautArch

@kviiri that's an interesting exploit. I mean, they're giving up a bit to get that fighter dip, so I think that's somewhat legit.

Ryan

@Rubiksmoose @NautArch heh so both of you say Reactions aren't that common but admit you mostly use Cutting Words because it doesn't take up your Bonus Action :P

NautArch

@SirCinnamon or disengage first.

Ryan

@JohnB yooo! what you playing?

NautArch

@Ryan Right, I'd rather use the ability for my reaction because I don't use reactions that often. My BOnus action could be used for something else (like if I have Heat Metal going, or Bigby's Hand, etc.)

Rubiksmoose

13:51

@Ryan it is not actually because of the action cost, but because the reaction ability is just more useful to me than the bonus action one.

kviiri

@NautArch Yeah, I think it's rather good though if one wants fighter for other reasons.

Rubiksmoose

But overall I don't use it that often and can only use it 5 times a day with a 20 CHA

kviiri

Action surge is limited though

Ryan

Dimension Door would be so nice to use on Reaction! Probably broken but would be fun!

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose refreshes on short rest after 5th level

Rubiksmoose

13:56

@NautArch doh, you are right.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose More inspiration for you!

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Luckily I have been playing that way. Just slipped my mind when I said that. I need more tea lol

Time to go learn so more Japanese. Ttyl.

Ryan

yeah we've been short a lot of players the last two weeks which has actually been nice. Yesterday it was just me, Rogue/Hunter, and Cleric. Me and the Cleric took short rests while the Rogue/Hunter went about his stealthing...

usually the party with Paladin and Fighter present just want to keep pushing forward borderline murder hoboing

goodguy5

I love the term murder hobo

NautArch

I prefer Freelance Itinerant Problem Solver

goodguy5

14:09

ugh, I know that new question is a dupe...... can't find it

Sir Cinnamon

"Ritual Caster Feet"

calloused from all the dancing required

goodguy5

yea. I saw that and chuckled

Sir Cinnamon

13

Q: Can a pact of the tome warlock get a pact of the chain familiar?

I am having trouble with a friend's warlock character. At level 3, a warlock gets pact boon. Pact of the chain lets you learn find familiar and get the additional forms (imp, pseudo dragon, quasit, and sprite) as well as allowing you to forgo one of your attacks to let the familiar attack. My...

dnd-5e spells class-feature warlock

goodguy5

yes that

Sir Cinnamon

I flagged as well

goodguy5

14:12

thank you

Sir Cinnamon

That question is only a couple weeks old so I had the same feeling

NautArch

I'll dupe it, but not before getting confirmation on 5e.

goodguy5

I will bet you money it's 5e

nitsua60

I had a player tweet Crawford during my AL game last night to "confirm" my claim that they couldn't *mage hand* something that's beyond a (transparent) crystal window.
"I just tweeted that question at Crawford and he answered-"
"I don't care. Don't even tell me what he said, because the only acceptable answer to me is 'what's the solution you and the six other people at your table came up with?' And we already know that one."

NautArch

@goodguy5 we don't make assumptions here.

@nitsua60 arggghhh

goodguy5

14:14

@NautArch Yea yea... when you assume you make an ass out of someone named "Ume", got it.

nitsua60

I think the message got across. "I've got no problem with you tweeting the question, I have a problem with the way he answers."

NautArch

I"m totally doing that to you on Saturday night @nitsua60. Well, after I set up a twitter account.

goodguy5

ugh, I just want to edit this question so that it's legible

nitsua60

@NautArch [note to self: look up "boot player" on R20 wiki]

=D

Sir Cinnamon

Confirmed 5e

KorvinStarmast

14:18

I think this one's a dupe

kviiri

tv.eenet.ee/merikotkas.html if you want to watch a live stream of a brooding eagle, look no further.

Sir Cinnamon

@KorvinStarmast And now its marked as one :)

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 You get an A for DM Has a Backbone. Advance to the head of the class. Standing Ovation

goodguy5

oh, I don't get a flag mention because I'm not good enough or whatever

NautArch

@nitsua60 DId you say they could or couldn't?

Sir Cinnamon

14:22

@goodguy5 Same :(

@kviiri Where is this?

kviiri

@SirCinnamon Estonia, I'd assume from the URL

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri Timestamp matches Estonia so I'll call that likely correct

nitsua60

@NautArch I asked them to remind me the target of mage hand, when they reminded me it was a point in space I said "sorry, but you don't have a 'clear path to the target' despite the clear window between you and the thing you want to grab."

kviiri

@SirCinnamon The pine tree is a beaut, too.

nitsua60

Then I reminded them that if they try fireballing on the other side of a window it'll detonate at the window, instead. I figure that's one everyone hears in wizard-school, doesn't believe, and tries out on their own once they get fireball.

Sir Cinnamon

14:28

@kviiri I saw an egg!

kviiri

@SirCinnamon Me too!

Exciting times

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri Eggciting

Frezak

You also can't teleport through a window, use psychic magic through a window or shoot a crossbow at the guy on the other side of the window without first directly attacking the window.
I guess it's all that medieval-glass, huh. Thick as bricks! Thick bricks!

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Or Freelance Occasional Problem Solver ... FOPS. :) Or Freelance Associate Problem Solver, FAPS,

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri My wikipedia research says its a white tailed eagle

Mike Q

14:32

@Frezak Teleport and Dimension Door should work through windows

Frezak

@MikeQ Without Line Of Effect?

NautArch

@nitsua60 Yup, legit. And crawford should have agreed with you :)

it's the weird issue of total cover including transparent things

kviiri

@SirCinnamon Yeah, seems so

Mike Q

@Frezak Yeah, because you're not targeting the destination. You're targeting yourself (and anyone or anything you bring along).

kviiri

"Merikotkas" is almost he same as the Finnish name for the bird

NautArch

14:35

Which makes me wonder how much casters know about limitations. Could my gnome make do a minor illusion window and the caster will say "well, crap, can't target him now!"

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri in estonian: Kotkas = Eagle, Merikotkas = ..gooseberry...

meri=the sea

Sea eagle = bird of prey in the genus Haliaeetus, of which the whit etailed eagle is a member

Frezak

Guess it depends on the editions. I know you can't in 4E.
Reading the 5E version... and, it looks like things can horribly wrong if you're merely using it to cross a valley or enter a room? man.

nitsua60

@NautArch I don't know if he did or not. I suppose I could check, but the only important thing I think comes out of that conversation is the notion (which I said using these words): "the only things that matter is that we at the table can quickly address and resolve questions like this with everyone feeling like they're able to be part of it, and that it happens quickly."

kviiri

@SirCinnamon In Finnish, eagle is kotka, meri is sea, and that bird is merikotka. We don't have that gooseberry nonsense though :)

But one marine bird of prey is literally called "fish thread-horn"

NautArch

@nitsua60 Oh, absolutely. GOtta rule and move on. Can always do it differently after more research.

kviiri

14:41

"Fish mosquito" I guess

Seems to be osprey in English

Sir Cinnamon

Its starting to rain

goodguy5

@kviiri oh, Ospreys are great ^_^

nitsua60

@NautArch Yeah. Or decide "actually, this is the way our D&D works." I've got a separate notecard (color-coded) where all the house-rules live for just that reason. (But not for AL, 'cause AL.)

kviiri

Oh boy, the hubby showed up :3

nitsua60

@kviiri Is this where I get to say "hubba hubba" and it's not creepy?

No?

Didn't think so.

kviiri

14:51

I'm not actually sure which one is it, I think they brood in turns.

nitsua60

(Oh, we're talking about the eagles. I don't know if that's more or less creepy, now.)

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri She started calling and I knew what was about to happen

He swooped in so majestically

NautArch

@nitsua60 I like the separate note card to keep track of on-the-fly rules changes.

that's a good idea, i know we don't keep track.

nitsua60

I throw it in the center of the table, next to the X card. They're both there for everyone.

NautArch

X card?

nitsua60

14:54

(I've got to run--I won't be around if that spiked-shield question gets an edit, so I'd appreciate if a collective eye were kept on it.)

NautArch

@nitsua60 on it like rust on a gorgon. Oh wait, not like that.

i'm wondering if they're getting the Spiked Shield from the Lizardfolk monster.

but then that brings up allowing players to pick up monster weapons and use them.

Oblivious Sage

Can someone with 2k+ rep approve the pending edit on this question? The asker tried to edit in an edition tag from an anonymous account, then posted an answer saying what edition it should be when the edit didn't go through automatically.

goodguy5

@ObliviousSage done

Mike Q

Were there any joke posts for April 1? I didn't notice any.

like "How many sides does a d20 have?" or "How do I build a DM?"

Rubiksmoose

15:10

@NautArch now it is a totally different question?

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose that's what i'm trying to clarify

Rubiksmoose

5

Q: Would dual wielding a sword and shield as an improvised weapon count for dual wielding perks?

Let's say I am wielding a dagger and shield, and I am using the shield as an improvised weapon. Would feats like Dual-Wielder and the Dual Wielding fighting style be in effect while I am using these as improvised weapons?

dnd-5e shield improvised-weaponry

NautArch

that's a dupe ( thought it was)

related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/103188/…

kviiri

Whoa, bird left egg unattended

Yuuki

@Rubiksmoose I don't think you can choose to wield a shield as an improvised weapon.

kviiri

15:14

@SirCinnamon Quickly, we must commence with operation eggsnatch

Oh shoot it's back

Act casual

Yuuki

Can you?

kviiri

@Yuuki IIRC the rules say something along the lines of "anything that isn't meant to be a weapon is an improvised weapon when attacking with it"

Rubiksmoose

@Yuuki Not RAI at least

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri I think that may have been a shift change, is this a different eagle? I think its the male

kviiri

Quite possibly

I never was very good with faces

Yuuki

15:17

@kviiri I would imagine that choosing to use it as an improvised weapon would remove the +2 AC bonus until your next turn then.

Rubiksmoose

Uhhh maybe my comment was not the best idea

goodguy5

@Yuuki meh. If you want to take a feat and get to do 1d4 damage as a bonus action, so be it.

But then again, I'm also okay with people using an "off hand" unarmed attack if they make a primary attack with a light weapon

NautArch

@goodguy5 Would you still give them the +2AC once it's no longer a shield and now an improvised weapon?

goodguy5

@NautArch yes. Because it's still a shield.

NautArch

Would like to reopen that question so we can close it as a dupe :)

@goodguy5 So you're cool with a free bonus action attack AND the AC advantage. That's not insignificant.

goodguy5

15:21

When you're using two weapons with the dual wielder feat, you get +1 AC from occasionally blocking attacks with your weapon(s). They still function as weapons. No reason the inverse shouldn't be true.

Though, I'd be reluctant to give sword and board using Dual Wielder the extra +1AC

(sorry for the multiping)

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Hmm, latest comment has me rethinking the dupe

Simon H.

Thats interesting

So shields + dual wield?

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch I think mainly it is because the top answer to the question does not seem to answer the question as asked and also that the question as asked before was probably too broad

I think that the second answer does answer it though...

3

A: Would dual wielding a sword and shield as an improvised weapon count for dual wielding perks?

Requires Feat A shield is not a light weapon, even when improvised as a weapon, so if this is allowed, it needs the Dual Wielder feat. Not Rules As Intended Jeremy Crawford says it wasn't intended to work with anything that isn't an actual weapon. Dual Wielder is intended to work with actu...

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Yeah, and the questions are identical. Just that the accepted answer was not quite answering it.

Simon H.

The only difference are the spikes, and that shouldn't really change much

NautArch

15:36

@SimonH. spikes are gone now

I put my own answer up for the one we're about to mark as a dupe.

Rubiksmoose

if someone can, can you put the last vote in to open the question back up? I know it shouldn't matter why the question is closed in the end, but I think it will be helpful for discussion if the closure reason now is dupe and not unclear.

Rubiksmoose

15:52

For fighting style they are referring to Two-Weapon Fighting right?

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose ha, literally just made that edit

@Rubiksmoose sadly, this twitter chain never finished.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch :'( Also, I hate the writers for how they named all this stuff

I just spent forever cleaning up that other answer: Two-Weapon Fighting (the fighting style), two-weapon fighting (the general rules), Dual Wielder (the feat). Very easy to get mixed up.

It also means that technically you have to say "I took the Two-Weapon Fighting fighting style" lol

The Oracle

3

Q: Is 'what is the rationale behind the design of X' a proper question for rpg.se?

The question: Is 'what is the rationale behind the design of X' a proper question for rpg.se? To elaborate: The question is motivated by my current predicament: D&D 3 and 3.5 have certainly shown that some features are better designed than others. Some are completely, obviously, irredeemably bro...

support questions

Simon H.

16:09

@TheOracle That's a good question, designer-reasons posts never get answered

Yuuki

16:20

@SimonH. Because they're kinda open-ended and because depending on the wording, it requires designer-only knowledge.

kviiri

And the current consensus is that "why" should be backed with designer knowledge, in many cases, or be unclear/too broad/opinion based.

Yuuki

And sometimes, you can get these situations:

> Q: "Why did <class> get this specific ability?"
> Site user: "Because it fills in a needed design space and it provides a counter against <strategy>."
> Designer: "lol because i thought it was cool."

3

kviiri

@Yuuki I have literally zero doubt about this often being the case.

Yuuki

@kviiri I'm pretty sure this is how Hexblade exists.

Like 95% sure.

kviiri

Hexblade is a cool concept, but I never quite got how it was supposed to play out

Yuuki

16:24

Yes, Pact of the Blade is problematic and yes, Hexblade provides a more spell-oriented gish option than Eldritch Knight.

Sir Cinnamon

@Yuuki Dev: "I wanted to play a warlock with a sword and it wasnt viable enough"

Yuuki

But if you read the articles Mearls put out, that is not why he made Hexblade.

tl;dr "lol shadows and warlocks and soul-draining swords"

kviiri

Pact of the Blade is weird in the sense that you get a cool weapon but it's still worse than your normal cantrips. Feels a bit underwhelming that one's special cool thing is mostly useful as a backup option

Yuuki

Followed up with "oh wait, that would be evil so I have to bend over backwards to make this work".

So now if you want to be a competent bladelock, you have to be a quasi-necromancer/dread knight.

Death knight?

:shrug:

kviiri

All DnD characters tend to be closely associated with death anyway.

I mean, death is one of those things you use to get rid of goblins

Yuuki

16:28

@kviiri I just use giant balls of candy.

Only a specific brand though: Gobstoppers.

kviiri

I've played Cuphead, those things are lethal.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose I think your first answer was probably right :)

Yuuki

CTWind

@Yuuki Exhibit A.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Yeah I was really distracted as I was writing that. Don't Q&A while distracted am I right?>

NautArch

16:31

@Rubiksmoose nono, i mean i don't think it's limited by Minor Illusion's 5' limitation.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch right yeah, but then I just got befuddled.

I'm on track now

@NautArch I think it may mean up to 8 doors each with an illusion actually

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose and it works likea minor illusion (with regard to saves to discover), but doesn't have the size requirement.

that's the equivalent bit

CTWind

@NautArch Read that as 'ikea minor illusion' on the first pass.

NautArch

@CTWind A 5' square full of swedish meatballs and lingonberry sauce

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch though it does say it is equivalent to the "illusory object function" of the spell

NautArch

16:38

@Rubiksmoose yeah, it's weird. I just can't see how they meant to cover a regular doorway if that's the case.

Simon H.

@CTWind Ikea is an illusion. It's just too big to tell.

Rubiksmoose

"The standard size for an exterior door is 6 ft, 8 inches by 3 ft. "

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Here's this 6th level spell that will only partially cover your doors.

Simon H.

You can't really get through a partial door, though.

NautArch

@SimonH. don't have to, it's just partially covered by an illusion. Which is a pretty crappy illusion, then.

Simon H.

16:50

@NautArch Oh, yeah, true. Unless you make it like one of those paintings from Wile E. Coyote

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch ok see how that looks to you

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Like it. have an upper.

goodguy5

why is digcoal's answer getting downvoted in this question

Simon H.

It's incorrect, apparently, but is that grounds for downvoting?

goodguy5

I mean, he makes some good points, unless there's a crawford tweet/errata, etc

Simon H.

17:06

@goodguy5 Oh, he has a good point:

> The Weapons table shows the most common weapons used in the worlds of D&D... (PHB146)

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 yeah I'm not entirely sure... though I disagree with his interpretation I think he makes points validly enough.

Yuuki

I guess but, for example, a khopesh is basically a one-handed sword or axe so you could say they behave similarly.

Rubiksmoose

Yeah the problem with saying that things not listed in the table are weapons is that without being in the table there is nothing that defines the properties of that weapon.

GreySage

@SimonH. An incorrect answer is grounds for downvoting (in my personal voting protocol). I think many people think he is incorrect, although he has some good points.

Rubiksmoose

No rules on when you can downvote. I got downvoted once because the person disagreed with the way the rule was written.

NautArch

17:15

@SimonH. Right, so they don't list a Katana, but it's "like" something else.

Simon H.

@GreySage I should be in the negative, then.

@NautArch Yeah, I get what you mean. It would be nice if we had something definitive like designer reasons for that

Maybe we could make that a new question?

goodguy5

@SimonH. I think they've talked about that before.

The weapons list in 3.x was so big and cumbersome.

David Coffron

It wasn't much better in 4e either, the masterwork armor or whatever was even worse

Simon H.

Looking for that right now...

David Coffron

Like just look at this: dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Weapon

dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Armor#Masterwork_armor

It is a mess

goodguy5

17:28

that's terrifying

David Coffron

The system does have some good moments though. Not to mention it had one of the best online tools for character building I've ever seen

goodguy5

personally, I'd prefer if the weapons table looked more like:
1d4 Slashing - *some examples*
1d4 Piercing - *some examples*

etc

GreySage

You know what Dnd5e needs more of? d12 rolls

goodguy5

agreed

I bought some of those little twelve-sided d4s

Yuuki

@GreySage Dagger - 1d4 piercing, 0d12 bludgeoning

GreySage

17:40

@goodguy5 12sided d4s?

goodguy5

111,222,333,444

GreySage

What else could use a d12 roll? Right now there is Barb hit die, Poison spray, great axe and lance damage.

goodguy5

witchbolt (bleck) as well, but yea

Sir Cinnamon

d12's are so swingy

Yuuki

@SirCinnamon That is what you do with greataxes after all.

Can't really thrust them.

Sir Cinnamon

17:48

a good roll kills a level 1 PC and a bad roll doesnt kill a rat

GreySage

@Yuuki You can if you put a spike on the top

Yuuki

@GreySage Then it's a halberd, no?

Sir Cinnamon

Maybe they tried to apply d12s to things that can feasibly deal a lot or a little damage

GreySage

@Yuuki "a combined spear and battle-ax."

Sir Cinnamon

Lance makes sense to me - a low roll is a glancing blow, less harmful than a good stab with a dagger, a good roll is basically full impalement, extremely deadly

GreySage

17:49

so... yes

Sir Cinnamon

Greataxe is a little harder to imagine what a 1 roll represents

Yuuki

@GreySage Can you spear some time? I need to axe you a question.

@SirCinnamon You axed them a question but in the wrong language.

GreySage

@Yuuki I'm REALLY trying to think of a halberd pun, but I got nothing

Have you halberd of greataxes with spikes on top?

...I think thats the best I can do

Sir Cinnamon

@GreySage I'm an axe-spear weilding barbarian with 18 INT

just call me Halberd Einstein

That's the best I can do

Yuuki

@GreySage Do you know why there's so many bears in Eastern Europe? They're very partial to Pole arms.

GreySage

17:53

@SirCinnamon That's a good best

CTWind

All I've got is "You know what they call a flaxseed loaf at the end of a wooden pole? A hale bread."

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