TRPG General Chat

Szega

16:03

@kviiri Actually, quicken couldn't do it, as you can only cast cantrips if you cast with your bonus action. This sounds more like homebrew.

NautArch

@Szega what's odd is he also only did that double spell once. I dunno. The other times he only cast one spell.

either way, given that i was down to 38hp and disadvantage on my attacks, I got out of there. The goal wasn't fighting in this place, it was retrieval ofs omething. So I just moved on.

Szega

@NautArch Once you get into homebrew territory, it is anyone's guess. 1/encounter ability?

NautArch

but i'm sure there will be an XP loss for that

Szega

@NautArch Remind me, why are you playing under that GM?

NautArch

@Szega i like the group. and they're close (sorry @nitsua60)

I just don't like this GM. BUt his campaign is almost over.

kviiri

16:09

@Szega I remembered there being something like twin spell, but I guess that only allows casting the same spell twice or something.

Szega

@kviiri twinned lets you target 2 with a single-target spell

kviiri

@Szega Ah, right.

I don't remember sorcerer abilities as well as most classes because none of my parties ever had a sorcerer.

sevenbrokenbricks

@doppelgreener yeah, probably best to remove the comments at this point. I probably should have made that edit as soon as the first comment popped up

doppelgreener

@kviiri In a world with wizards in towers devoted to figuring out the minutae of the universe, someone would eventually notice that precisely 1 in 20 attacks fail with some horrible consequence

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener hahaha :P

doppelgreener

16:12

@sevenbrokenbricks cool beans! blammo. just didn't want to remove them if you were still doing something with them. :)

kviiri

@doppelgreener And 1 in 20 attacks succeeds with horrible consequences.

doppelgreener

From what I've read though, the most weighty argument I've seen against critical fumbles is this:
- most NPCs won't be around to experience even one of them.
- the player characters will experience tons of them.
This means critical fumbles penalise the players more than help them. It also means that critical fumbles with any long-term consequence (like a character losing a limb or a weapon) exclusively impacts the players -- the NPCs won't be around long enough to care about the long-term consequences, so exclusively only the players actually suffer from them.

Szega

@doppelgreener That is not really a problem in and of itself.

kviiri

I think the after-edit version captures it.

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener that's actually not the only argument against crit fumbles in at least some corners

doppelgreener

16:17

@Shalvenay whoops. i ... didn't mean to write "single" at all. brain malfunction.

@kviiri most especially captures why to not have long-term consequences in a fumble table

Szega

@kviiri My statement still stands. Making things really hard for the players is not a bad thing inherently. The problem arises when there is a dissonance between player and GM expectations.

Shalvenay

(D&D 3.x is particularly bad for them. the multiple-attacks system in 3.x interacts really badly with crit fumbles to cause P(fumble) to go up as you level your char, which is rather paradoxical if you ask me)

kviiri

That's the balance point of view - and from simulationist point of view, a super-capable fighter debilitating themselves roughly every 20 strikes doesn't make much sense.

doppelgreener

@Szega Yeah, making things harder for the players is not necessarily bad.

Shalvenay

@kviiri and getting more likely to do so on any given turn as they increase in level in D&D 3.x

kviiri

16:18

@Szega Weeeell, it can also create a dissonance between GM rulings and GM expectations. By my experiences, not every GM thinks as far as doppel just did, and could naively think that a critical fumble rule is equal :)

doppelgreener

@kviiri Right, which gets at one of the other avenues of argument for having fumbles: that they're theoretically simulationist. But they're not! A trained expert doesn't experience horrible self-inflicted mistakes like that.

Szega

Note: I am not advocating the 1-in-20 fumbles we spoke of earlier, just trying to clear up the argument.

kviiri

@Szega Yep, I understand :)

And I see what you mean.

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener which is an implementation problem, not a conceptual problem. something like a Reflex save to confirm, then having them choose between losing the weapon or taking an OA, is much more realistic consequence-wise it seems

doppelgreener

@kviiri Yeah, it's a subtle trap to fall into. "Man, imagine that combat where an enemy gets an arm chopped off!" turns into Gandalf the Limbless, with Aragorn Lackhand, and Frodo carried on Samwise's back not because he's exhausted but because Frodo's got no legs left.

Szega

16:21

@doppelgreener There is also the problem of injecting limb loss into a system that is not designed to handle it.

like 5e

Shalvenay

@Szega or other such debilitation, for that matter

kviiri

@doppelgreener Frodo the Quarterling, at your service.

@doppelgreener On a more serious note, this also works in reverse: buffing crits tends to work in the monsters' favor.

Szega

@Shalvenay There are only optional rules for them for a reason. That being that DnD is usually used for high fantasy games with big heroes.

Shalvenay

@Szega aye, and even if you're using the option of having critical failures -- ascribing horrific consequences to them is no good

losing limbs is out of proportion to the frequency they occur at even with a confirmation roll

Szega

@Shalvenay Actually even the optional rules do not include such things on nat-1s. They give them as a consequence of nat-20 on attacks.

Shalvenay

16:24

@Szega aye. I'm speaking from experience here not just what the rules provide

Szega

you cannot self-inflict by accident

NautArch

@Shalvenay yup. as shown by our percentil confirmation roll. Really only 95% or above creates longstanding problems (or something needing greater restoration to fix.)

kviiri

I'm not a big fan of the "optional rules" paradigm. Relies too much on the GM making only good calls. Then again, it's better than having every GM homebrew something of their own...

@NautArch Oh, you had a confirmation roll at least... I thought the 95% meant the chance to not fumble at all and all fumbles are like that.

Szega

@NautArch Oh that was the 95%! I thought only a 1 would have missed. This is marginally more reasonable.

NautArch

@Szega first it's the fumble, then it's percentile. Closer to 100 is bad. 100 is instadeath.

kviiri

16:26

What.

Szega

@NautArch Damn

NautArch

@Szega yeah, when i was DMing one guy fumbled and rolled 100

that sucked

Szega

@kviiri Optional does not mean "optional every time", but optional in the game, but then consistent. It is not a ruling.

never really had a problem with it

kviiri

@Szega I would consider the choice to use or not use it a ruling anyway.

@Szega I don't really doubt that, but I think you're likely to be a very good GM. You probably wouldn't make many or even any bad calls when picking rules to use and rules to ignore.

Szega

@kviiri Well, it is similar. But codifying it make is better than "regular" ruling that slip into table rules.

kviiri

16:29

@Szega Okay, that's true.

Szega

@kviiri I am honored :)

kviiri

But in more general audiences, I think the heavy emphasis on rulings, optional rules and GM fiat reeks of "System designed for experienced GMs". That's problematic as the current edition of DnD is a very common system for beginner play.

doppelgreener

@kviiri Hmm. Across the course of a battle, players tend to experience more actions than monsters individually (because the monsters die), but in combats with more monsters than player characters, the monsters as a group will experience more actions. More actions = more chances of critical success/fumbles.

Short-term benefits become long-term consequences when inflicted on the opposite side, such as via death.

Thus critical success tables that involve, say, "the target dies instantly" will have more impact on players than monsters. That trigger on a monster just kills it 1-2 turns early, that trigger on a player is a huge impact on the story and a potential plot derailment.

kviiri

It's likely to be a less pronounced problem for those who play published adventures, but at least I, upon first starting to GM, was more interested in making my own stuff than following a story set out in a book.

It's not a bad way to feel, until one realizes that sometimes the enjoyability of an RPG can be quite fickle.

nitsua60

@NautArch Isn't there a theory in ~~psychology~~ parenting that we can endure anything as long as we can see an endpoint approaching?

NautArch

16:39

@nitsua60 absolutely. and i'm living proof right now. HAHAHAHAAH on the update.

kviiri

@NautArch Have you told the GM how you feel about his game? How has he responded to feedback?

NautArch

@kviiri I've attempted to. It didn't go well.

but i won't do another campaign with him

kviiri

That's probably wise, especially if they have a strong conviction towards their unusual playstyle.

I would recommend playing something else to broaden their horizons but if I recall correctly you're DnD all the way

NautArch

@kviiri kinda. we did try iron kingdoms (and liked it, until the same GM started pulling the same stuff) and paranoia.

kviiri

@NautArch You need a contending GM to disrupt his monopoly :)

NautArch

16:56

@kviiri We've got one starting up as soon as this ends. We also run our alternate campaign which is rotating GMs.

I'd like to start suggesting alternate RPGs for the alternate campaign

kviiri

@NautArch Sounds cool!

NautArch

One of my buddy's not in this group has been wanting to GM Savage Worlds

kviiri

We had some fun with rotating GMs except well, we didn't have the usual level of playstyle consensus. That's a bit of a bummer.

I would like to try rotating GMs with a deliberately simple on-the-rails playstyle

NautArch

we've had good luck with it

kviiri

I'm going to teach a handful of people to play RPGs this year, if for nothing else, because I've found that my current friends are so resistant to change that it's best I have a separate group of players to do my more experimental stuff with :)

nitsua60

17:36

@NautArch Legendary/Lair Action? If it's a biiig boss I could imagine a nova of six "things," but they'd be blowing their wad on it. Also, as a GM I'd probably be spreading things out a bit more.... But time stop or a legendary multiattack at the end of the turn immediately preceding yours... I suppose it could happen. (More likely, though, just struggling to keep up.)

NautArch

@nitsua60 not a big boss. just a guy in the way after the 2nd puzzle.

and before the final fight/puzzle before we go back to the material plane

nitsua60

Welp, to quote one of my favorite shows:

> "Mmm, boy. I don't know."

NautArch

yeah, i'm sadly just looking for this campaign to end. in whatever way it does.

i'm going to miss my character, but i am so unbelievably done with this GM

but i'm really going to miss my paladin

kviiri

Just out of curiosity, is this GM a relatively fresh one or one of those elder sages who has been playing since the 1970's? Or something in between?

NautArch

'elder sage', but younger than me :) He's been playing for a long time.

kviiri

17:44

I guess at some point what started as a choice becomes an unviolable tradition.

NautArch

quite possibly. the table also does seem to like the fumble rules (although not all of the table enjoys this DM.)

kviiri

18:39

By my experience, many of the people who like fumble rules have no more reason for liking them than just "it's the way it's supposed to be".

Then again, that's not a bad reason if that's what they need to enjoy their game... I have my share of "things I enjoy but can't really explain" too.

NautArch

19:12

is this a dupe of this

i'm wary about marking things in 5e as dupes because last time i did it it automatically closed it as a dupe

is that a new function of 20k?

Szega

@NautArch gold badge i think

NautArch

@Szega it's the same answer, but a different question. In the past that's been not a dupe but it feels like it should be :)

Szega

@NautArch I think it is not. Alarm targets an area, while hut does not

NautArch

Gotcha. I was just looking at it as "Spell on moving thing"

Szega

@NautArch The issue is similar

so the answer might be the same...

NautArch

19:18

i'll just plop the related down

Szega

@NautArch I can mark it as duplicate if we wanna leave it to the voters

btw, does it auto-close if you flag it? or can you not flag after you get close-vote rights?

NautArch

@Szega I'm honestly not sure. Over the weekend I flagged something and it was auto-closed. Have been scared to try again since :)

Szega

@NautArch Oh, I just noticed it is abour glyph of warding

my eyes slipped

it is not a dupe then, away to answer :)

NautArch

@Szega I'm not sure the wall of a house (stationary) is equivalent to the wall of a ship (moving)

they also state a "table" is a surface. But I think if you move that table, it becomes an object.

ah, @Rubiksmoose got it :)

Szega

@NautArch It is clearly separated into surface or object that can be closed

a table cannot be closed

usually

A door would be an interesting case, though

probably a surface though, as far as I can glean the intent

kviiri

19:33

This reminds me of a debate I had with my roommates in the army... which are there more of, windows or doors?

Of course, we could debate the actual issue for barely twenty seconds before it (d)evolved into semantics of "window" and "door".

NautArch

@Szega yes, but the moose goes on to add the relevant bit that should the surface OR object be moved.

kviiri

That continued for an awesome 30 minutes or so.

Rubiksmoose

ok I know this is already answered, but should we split this into two questions? rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/112695/…

Szega

@NautArch They must have updated after the PHB release

as mine does not say that

nitsua60

@NautArch your gold dnd-5e badge means that any time you vote to close-as-duplicate a question with that tag, it'll immediately close as duplicate. (Sometimes affectionately referred to as the "dupe-hammer.")

doppelgreener

19:44

@nitsua60 One exception: this is contingent on the tag being either in the original revision, or added by someone else. Someone's gold badge dupehammer won't work if the question only has the tag because because they added it themselves.

NautArch

@nitsua60 oh, man. that's some heavy responsibility.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener Sooth. Wisely, wisely.

@Szega There are some places where at low rep you have a "flag" option but once you gain the privilege/responsibility to vote you can no longer flag, just vote. IIRC.

kviiri

@NautArch The gold badge isn't common either! You're one of the eight people who have it for 5e, and other systems have only very small numbers of them.

nitsua60

Sep 22 '16 at 21:23, by nitsua60

Whoa. First dupehammer.
Think I'm gonna feel it tomorrow. I probably should've stretched.

NautArch

@nitsua60 haha! ALthough at the time of my first dupehammer, it was a dupe.

kviiri

19:49

@nitsua60 At least I get the normal dialog for flagging "Should be closed" despite having had the closing privilege for quite a while now. Which reminds me - should I both flag and vote to close, or is the flag superfluous at that point?

Peter Cooper Jr.

@kviiri When you have the rep to vote-to-close, flagging-to-close is actually a vote-to-close.

SPavel

Isn't there some badge that only fires when X flags to close are acted on by empowered users

NautArch

@Szega is it bad that i didn't realize the question i marked as related was my own :)

SPavel

So when you get the privilege to vote, you lose an easy access to progress on that badge

Szega

@NautArch dw, I didn't either :)

Shalvenay

19:56

hey there @SPavel

SPavel

@NautArch This is a community website, you don't own content once you have submitted it. Much like a mind flayer being fed to the Elder Brain, it becomes one with the source.

NautArch

@SPavel ha. truth.

SPavel

Also like the mind flayer, only its memories live on; its soul is irrevocably erased and its individual existence ends, despite the insistence of the elder brains that those mind flayers become one with its consciousness.

The Oracle

0

Q: Stance on using paywall shielded websites as references?

With the release of dndbeyond, and seeing it used a few times around the site, I wanted to ask if we have (or should have) a policy regarding using direct links to a paywall shielded website, instead of referring to physical books. Naturally, we encourage pasting in the relevant text in case of ...

Shalvenay

20:24

hey there @ACuriousMind

ACuriousMind

@Shalvenay Ahoi

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind how're things going?

ACuriousMind

I'm afraid I didn't get as much sleep as I'd have liked today so I'm not in good condition if you wanted to play today

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind yeah, well, it seems Pixie isn't around today anyway

SPavel

@ACuriousMind Have you considered intense and excessive caffeination

Shalvenay

20:26

and I'll have to see what my schedule on the weekends this month looks like. how many more sessions were you figuring this'd run for btw?

SPavel

Rush-order a crate of Black Blood of the Earth, Death Wish edition

And do shots until your eyes won't close

ACuriousMind

@Shalvenay Ah, alright. I dunno, I'd figure we could get to "closure" within 1-2 sessions, but there's no hard end point#

@SPavel Yes, that's how I survived the day in the first place :P

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind yeah, there should be enough time for that before Nits' game starts up then

SPavel

@ACuriousMind Good, consume additional caffeine until condition improves

Advantage may not stack, but espresso does!

ACuriousMind

Alas, I'm home now and no longer have access to free coffee :P

kviiri

20:35

@nitsua60 Another user guessed the system tag in this recent question, I'm not sure what's the appropriate response.

SPavel

@ACuriousMind Hence the BBotE plan outlined above

Shalvenay

hey there @SPavel and @eimyr

eimyr

hi @Shalvenay

Shalvenay

how're things going?

eimyr

urrrgh

uhh

wanna talk RPGs instead?

ACuriousMind

20:42

@SPavel I think I'm gonna try this magical thing called "sleep" instead ;)

My sleep schedule just has to adjust from "lazy student" to "productive member of society" :P

SPavel

@ACuriousMind I can't find this thing on Amazon or Seamless, where do I buy it?

Shalvenay

@eimyr sure. it's too bad we don't have a guinea-pig-grognard hanging around though :p (got something I want to try running with them)

SPavel

@ACuriousMind Graduated straight into a job?

eimyr

@ACuriousMind Tried that, didn't work. Turns out I'm most productive 5 p.m. onwards

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind hahaha, still on a swing shift sleep schedule eh?

eimyr

20:44

@Shalvenay reaaaaally?

SPavel

@eimyr 5pm is a great time, it's when you go "oh man it's already 5, I better do some work" and knock out a bunch of good results

ACuriousMind

@SPavel You have to make a pact with a demon, paying with hours of your remaining life

Shalvenay

@eimyr well, not at the moment at least :) Korvs or Nits would probably be good

SPavel

Now that I work 8-5, my productivity has fallen a lot

ACuriousMind

@SPavel Aye, had my first day today

Shalvenay

20:45

@eimyr work swings man ;)

(and be glad you aren't TE&Y, where your life is run by the crew desk's ringtone)

SPavel

@ACuriousMind Congrats! May your work-life balance exist, and may your student debt be low-interest.

ACuriousMind

@SPavel I'm not American, I don't have student debt ;P But thanks anyway! :)

eimyr

@Shalvenay te&y? what's that? (sorry, I'm terrible with TLAs)

Shalvenay

@eimyr oh, train, engine, & yard service (aka being someone who runs trains for a living)

SPavel

@ACuriousMind Dang, you probably get things like vacation days too

eimyr

20:47

@Shalvenay oh, right

ACuriousMind

@SPavel aye, living the dream, man

SPavel

You mean this guy?

GreySage

@SPavel I get vacation days AND student dept, so there :p

SPavel

Nice

I am down to 4 digits on mine

Shalvenay

hey there @EduardoMendonça, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

eimyr

20:48

I used to work as an ambulance driver briefly. Since we were a standby service (for an industrial plant) rather than a rescue one, we had 12 hour shifts, during which 8-10 hours was just doing nothing and being on call.

GreySage

@eimyr So you played DnD while waiting?

eimyr

So in that line of work you can get paid to have good 8 hours of sleep, but if you don't you really don't.

@GreySage it was so long ago I didn't.

SPavel

I've done some case studies on EMTs, apparently they keep reducing the driver's space because fat people need more space in the back, so all ambulance drivers stationed in their vehicles have horrible back pain

eimyr

@SPavel not fat people, tall people. Also, you need room for a paramedic to sit with the patient's head between the knees. I was lucky to have had a tiny room in which I could sleep or read.

SPavel

@eimyr Nice, a double-decker ambulance?

eimyr

20:51

@SPavel not saying your studies are wrong or anything, it's a different time & location, but yeah, it was the tall folks who were a hassle

BESW

@trogdor You may recognize today's detective, too.

doppelgreener

I thought that was Detective Terry Jeffords for a moment

nitsua60

@kviiri Generally revert with an edit summary "don't guess at systems" and a comment saying "I'v ereverted the edit that quessed at the system; see [this meta discussion] for our policy on supplying system info that the original querent didn't" or the like. Looks like it's already there in this case.

doppelgreener

SPavel

doppelgreener

20:57

@nitsua60 @kviiri Ooer... yeah, people should not be guessing system.

2

SPavel

On the one hand, sometimes it's very obvious, but on the other, it's a good policy in general

doppelgreener

Don't do that ever, and if you see someone do that, roll it back.

@SPavel Even when it's obvious we shouldn't -- we want people to learn they have to be clear, and there are times it's been obvious but we've been wrong.

There's those times someone's said "yeah this is from D&D 5e but I'm playing an AD&D 2e / D&D 3.5e hybrid and really I guess it's pretty much a homebrew system at this point."

kviiri

@doppelgreener What an intergenerational romance!

doppelgreener

20

Q: What to do when an edit guesses a system tag rather than waiting for the querent to clarify?

When the question does not specify a system, but an educated guess can be made, other users often edit the tags themselves without waiting for the querent to confirm the system they are interested in. Is this appropriate? If not then is it OK to roll-back the edit and comment? At what point is ...

discussion faq tags questions editing

BESW

Especially when it's obvious it's a particular edition of D&D--so many things crib off D&D, including other editions of D&D, that it's rarely actually obvious even if the user isn't doing something homebrewed--which isn't as uncommon as we'd think.

kviiri

21:02

@doppelgreener I actually left a comment on the accepted answers just a few minutes ago... because it doesn't explicitly answer the title question.

SPavel

Ah, I remember the "3.x" guy

kviiri

@SPavel What's that?

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

SPavel

@kviiri It was a question that the asker tagged "3.x" and had some kind of mix between 3e and 3.5e that took rules from both

nitsua60

@Shalvenay hiya

Shalvenay

21:04

@nitsua60 how're things going?

BESW

And 3.0/3.5 is a subtle but significant distinction that most users won't pick up from narrow examples.

kviiri

@SPavel Oh, my. Well, I guess the term is quite intuitive... after you know the meaning :D

Shalvenay

@BESW quite.

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Good. Kids wanted to "do a project" today so we're 70% through a 2.5-D model of the fabled city of Omu. (Location where the remaining 4-5 months of my current AL game will occur.)

BESW

But most folks who use "3.x" around here tend to use it to include that whole family, potentially out into Pathfinder, d20 Modern, etc, and to describe the general commonalities shared by those systems rather than a hybrid of them used for a specific campaign.

Shalvenay

21:06

@nitsua60 nice. :)

nitsua60

(Unfortunately, I'm about 120% through my patience....)

kviiri

It took me quite long to realize that 3.5 is the actual edition number of 3.5e. For my first few years of playing and discussing RPGs I thought it was just a fan nickname that had gotten popular.

ACuriousMind

@nitsua60 "2.5D"? You already doing fractal dimensions with them? ;)

kviiri

@nitsua60 That sounds awesome. How old are they?

nitsua60

@ACuriousMind actually, yes. But that's a different topic. (When we take down trees we make piles of the parts at different scales and talk about the self-similarity, and about how much space is filled by leaves, &c.)

In this case I'm saying 2.5D in that it's a model that both uses 2d perspective techniques and 3d elements to create the effect. I'll post a photo when it's done.

@kviiri 9, 7, 5. The 5y.o. with the big squeezy-bottle of wood glue is ~~maddening~~ adorable.

(I suppose that ^^ is a classic 'false dichotomy.')

kviiri

21:11

@nitsua60 Hopefully with good practice they'll grow to be good with arts and crafts. Sometimes I wish I had practiced more as a kid so I could do stuff now without being an absolute disaster!

Luckily my SO's father is an old-skool engineer and always was eager to teach her. So at least I have someone to do the construction and decoration work for me.

SPavel

I practiced crafts as a kid, did a lot of crafty stuff through college, and I'm still an absolute disaster

I'm handy with a scalpel, but give me glue and everything within arm's reach slowly becomes sticky

ACuriousMind

"I'm handy with a scalpel" - words to slowly back away from

2

kviiri

In my more adult years I've made two craft projects I'm rather proud of, and both feature the cardboard boxes Powerking energy drink is shipped in.

nitsua60

Qualities to ask for in a surgeon: "handy."

SPavel

@nitsua60 Don't worry, I'm not a surgeon

nitsua60

21:14

...anymore.

SPavel

Not since the accident

BESW

Because of The Reason.

ACuriousMind

I think the only "crafts project" I've done in recent years was "fixing" a tent with copious amounts of duct tape :P

kviiri

First one was constructing a convenient storage for the disease cubes in Pandemic out of a Powerking box and a Scho-Ka-Kola tin. The second one was constructing encryption/decryption disks from Powerking boxes, sticky tape and thumbtacks for teaching purposes.

nitsua60

@kviiri those're both laudable projects, IMO.

GreySage

21:17

@SPavel Better than everything becoming sticky while you're holding the scalpel

kviiri

@nitsua60 The Pandemic cube container didn't turn out so well, because Scho-Ka-Kola tins are rather small. Basically I made a plus-shape out of cardboard so I could store the four different colors of cubes in their own compartments without mixing :)

Sadly, this resulted in the compartments being rather small - they held the cubes with ease, but picking the cubes was hard.

SPavel

@kviiri We use a combination of plastic lidded cups and ziploc bags

Also you can rinse out the sauce containers you get from Indian takeout, and use those for smaller pieces

kviiri

The encryption disk project was much more successful. Our student organization had a tradition for having really lazy demos for highschool students coming to see what Computer Science is like, so we made them one night to make for a more exciting show. It worked!

BESW

Does Winter Bash end in a few hours, or in a day?

kviiri

@SPavel My super awesome container was retired when we bought the first expansion kit, which includes petri-dish like containers for each cube color.

SPavel

21:20

The most major craft project I did was for a gift box a few years ago, which had to be custom-made to support a ruse

nitsua60

@kviiri I thought that'd be taken care of by

GreySage

You know what I just realized? It's 2018 today.

nitsua60

> give me glue and everything within arm's reach slowly becomes sticky

SPavel

@GreySage Kids born in the 21st century have started reaching the age of majority

Don't you feel old now

GreySage

@SPavel I've been feeling old since I was 13

(the fact that my wife is 4 years younger than me doesn't help)

SPavel

21:22

@GreySage My high school classmate is dating a man 10 years her senior

Puts things in perspective for me, haha

GreySage

@SPavel As long as they are out of highschool

SPavel

It's been a while since high school

The oldest old thing I remember is probably rotary phones

Although I do have a Soviet passport somewhere

But that doesn't count since there are still passports

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 what if I gave you a welder instead? :P some folks do call a stick welder a "metal hot glue gun"

GreySage

@SPavel I never had a rotary, but I remember how happy I (and my siblings) were when we finally got cable internet (as opposed to dial-up)

SPavel

@GreySage Ah yes, the awe-inspiring boost of speed switching from NetZero to AOL was a treat as well.

BESW

21:30

My generational markers tend to be a bit skewed. If I say we didn't go off dial-up until I was out of college, that'd imply to most people that I'm at least five years younger than I actually am.

GreySage

@SPavel And not getting booted off anytime our sister picked up the phone

SPavel

@BESW So...you went to college 5 years early? Or you got DSL five years before everyone else?

Look at us with our 56k while BESW is tapping directly into DARPANET

GreySage

@BESW My markers are skewed the other way, I was probably 9 when we got off dial-up.

BESW

Other way around. We live in a place that didn't get DSL access until later than most of mainland America.

doppelgreener

@BESW That would say to me you were in college in 2005.

BESW

21:33

@doppelgreener That's actually accurate.

nitsua60

@Shalvenay A welder has long been on my list. I hold it out in front of my robotics team as a carrot: "if you design a robot, I'll buy us a welder and teach you."

doppelgreener

I remember dialup still being normal around 2000, and it was still viable for a few years afterwards, so a remark like "it took us this long..." would put us around that time.

NautArch

56k? I remember helping a buddy put together a bbs and using his fancy new 14.4

SPavel

I definitely had dialup in 2000

BESW

Our 56k was functionally 28k, and we didn't upgrade to DSL until 2008.

...and DSL is still our only viable option.

doppelgreener

21:37

@nitsua60 Adult translation: "Please give me a legitimate budget reason to buy a welder. Pretty please."

BESW

I believe we stopped using our last rotary phone around the same time; around here it's good to have a phone that's completely independent of an electricity line, and took us a while to find a digital phone that also functioned when the power went out.

SPavel

@BESW My mother just kept the old rotary in the closet for power outages.

BESW

@SPavel Given the frequency of power outages, that would've been impractical for us.

I'm also about ten years behind the curve on many cultural touchstones that most people use as generational markers.

And, well, I know entire regions that skipped right from "have no phones" to "have cell phones" without any of the intervening technological steps.

SPavel

@BESW My childhood was Voltron, Tom & Jerry, Robocop, TMNT, and Biker Mice from Mars, how old would you say I am?

BESW

Mid to late 20s.

SPavel

21:44

Looks like we have similar cultural touchstones then

Most people would have put those in the 80s, I think.

BESW

I didn't grow up with any of those as touchstones, though I was aware of Tom & Jerry and TMNT.

SPavel

What did you have, Br'er Rabbit and H.C. Andersen?

BESW

But Biker Mice is from the early 90s and you identified it with "childhood" and also said you've been out of college for a while, so the range was pretty easy to pin down.

My childhood was... hard to pin down to popular culture references. lessee.

The stuff I liked tended to be a bit older. The Boxcar Children, Benji, 101 Dalmatians, The Undersea World of Jacques Cousteau, Flatland, Star Trek IV...

NautArch

where have i been that i'e never heard of biker mice from mars?!

SPavel

@NautArch Venus?

NautArch

21:53

@SPavel close enough...high school.

kviiri

Does the original English audio of Biker Mice have double entendres slipped through here and there?

SPavel

Related articles on Wikipedia include en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avenger_Penguins

I can't believe "Avenger Penguins" ran for 2 seasons

BESW

But had as many episodes as Seabert.

kviiri

From my childhood, I remember Biker Mice from Mars, Around the world in 80 days (a Spanish funny animal rendition of the Jules Verne story), Dogtanian and Muskehounds (a Spanish funny animal rendition of the Alexandre Dumas story) and Moomin. But I only have real memories of the latter, mostly because Moomin are quite good for adult rewatching too and they keep being re-run frequently.

Oh, and Pat & Mat. I still watch those old ones every now and then.

Well, time for some video games before I head off to slumber. Nitey nite

BESW

22:10

Taiwan blue magpie. (Photo: Dajan Chiou)

Tweeted by Strange_Animals on October 28, 2017 at 9:45 AM

eimyr

@kviiri Moomins!

Also Smurfs, Spider-man and Captain Tsubasa.

BESW

3-2-1 Contact, Square One TV, The Eleventh Hour, Leo Lionni and Eric Carle, the Golden Mountain Chronicles.

Quentin

@kviiri Dogtanian and the Three Muskehounds is excellent. It's the most accurate screen adaptation of the book, and still holds up well when watching it as an adult.

BESW

22:32

> Captain Scarlet. You can concede after taking stress, by dying. You'll return at the beginning of the next adventure no questions asked. Obviously you can only do this once per adventure, so make it count.

doppelgreener

22:57

@BESW that's quite the proposition

BESW

@doppelgreener The TV show Captain Scarlet has a main character who, because of the Reason, cannot stay dead. He doesn't LIKE dying, but it's often the only way to win --or just break even-- against the Martians who have decided to slowly destroy the Earth.

doppelgreener

@BESW I recall you explaining, though "you can still concede -- by dying!!" is quite the proposition :D

BESW

[grin]

Dramatic, competent, proactive.

doppelgreener

we'll you're not wrong on any particular point...!!!

trogdor

23:13

lol

doppelgreener

LO, IT DOTH BE THE ONE WHO TROGS

trogdor

:)

Peter Cooper Jr.

@nitsua60 Is your robotics team FRC by any chance? Curious if I'd see you at a competition this year.

doppelgreener

HAIL, O TROG OF DOR.

BESW

Shalvenay

23:36

hey there @inthemanual

inthemanual

That was fast

Shalvenay

how're things going?

BESW

Ran this for friends at GenCon, what a great setting https://twitter.com/Fate_SRD/status/948192385120468993

Tweeted by restlesshead on January 2, 2018 at 2:52 PM

trogdor

@doppelgreener @BESW thanks, I feel great

except for the interrupted sleep pattern from the flight, but I will get over that

doppelgreener

hooray :)

welcome home!

trogdor

23:49

thanks

kviiri

@Quentin I've been meaning to watch it again at some point

inthemanual

I'm waiting at the doctors and really wishing I'd brought a book to read

BESW

800 Free eBooks for iPad, Kindle & Other Devices. We put together a library of classics for you. Enjoy. http://goo.gl/vt7v

Tweeted by openculture on June 17, 2017 at 8:31 PM

Or just read Summer in Orcus.

Or read Apex Magazine back issues?

nitsua60

@PeterCooperJr. Yes. I think we're doing WPI and north shore? How 'bout you?

inthemanual

@BESW I was hoping I'd brought one a little more specific: the BGS rules

nitsua60

23:56

@doppelgreener Actually, we were in a good budget position. I was trying to coax the kids into believing my oft-repeated admonition: "design is when you solve problems before they've happened."

BESW

Ah, can't help with a free online Bubblegumshoe I'm afraid.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 nice :)

@BESW clearly inthemanual was meaning the battlegar stalactica rules

BESW

Or possible the rules of the British Geological Society.

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