@Shalvenay hello Shal, Happy New year to you. Momma has me working in the kitchen to support the food items at the party. Yes, goodness ...

@KorvinStarmast ah. thx :) I take it things are all clean and dry over there now?

@AaronHall [wave]

@BESW hi

Welcome! What brings you here?

In Dragon Warrior 3 you could have a fool/goof-off classed character which would do oddball stuff in a fight but would later be able to change classes to a sage, basically getting all the spells of both a wizard and a cleric. Anything like that in other RPG's?

[quick Google] Do you mean the Square Enix video game?

If so, I think you'll find more help in the Bridge, which is the Arqade chat room. This is the chat room for Role-playing Games, which is dedicated to tabletop games--the kind that tend to use dice, and pen and paper, maybe some miniatures on a grid.

I don't play much in the way of video games, especially not RPGs, but I do think of Wizardry 8 when you describe multiclassing to get lots of different features.

Nah, I want RPGs, not video games.

I mostly just like to read about it though...

anyways, happy new years!

ooh, okay. [thinks]

@AaronHall Happy new year!

Many D&D-like RPGs allow some sort of multiclassing conceit, where you can just switch out the kinds of things you learn as you level up.

Games like Fate, where there's no "class" concept at all and your character's capacity is defined narratively, have plenty of room to just do that kind of thing, and may be more amenable to letting "goof off" be a consistently valid conflict-resolution strategy.

Neat.

Are you looking at this more in terms of "manipulating the system to get a more powerful character than intended," or "it's really cool to tell a story about someone who can operate in all these different modes"?

'cause a game like Fate is happy to let you just say you can do all those things, but it won't be especially more "powerful" than any other character--just perhaps more versatile.

While a D&D-like game, including D&D itself, is more likely to work in a paradigm where more options are directly equal to more power and agency, and someone with system mastery to works to optimize their options will overshadow fellow players who don't.

@doppelgreener tvguide.co.uk/titlesearch.asp?title=The+Librarians

@BESW hrm, i don't have syfy...

@nitsua60 thanks, this was a good read.

@doppelgreener amazon.co.uk/dp/B017WS2MSK

@BESW yeah! :D that will do, or a DVD.

In my opinion, each season gets better.

Kinda Stargate-SG-1-y, with the first season being a "find your feet" season.

Nowhere near as much cringe as season one SG-1, though.

\o/

I think season two is where they get into the power/focus/effect thing.

And that's a good example of it being like our campaigns, too: they just add new stuff as they go.

the return of the BURNINATOR approaches, you have but one day left to hide yourselves in fear and anticipation of my glorious arrival. or you can also just not do anything that works too

\o/!!!

it's really up to you, I can't tell you what to do after all

@doppelgreener once again your hat buys the mortal realm another day of my amusement

@trogdor woo!

XD

@trogdor I gotta be honest, the Peri hats have been really fun -- but your reactions to them have made it for me. :D

They're delightful.

And yes, it's twice as fun when people enjoy the hats.

Current mood:

:D

(A few strips later the goldfish is drinking uranium-laced energy drink and turning into a giant tentacle monster.)

oh dear

(I do not have similar plans, but the night is young.)

meanwhile i can just imagine Doctor Light watching on and writing notes

@Shalvenay precisely

hey there @Szega and @Zachiel

Prosit neujahr!

Buon anno!

Gått nytt år!

hey there @kviiri

@Shalvenay Hiya!

@kviiri how're things going?

@Shalvenay Pretty good, recovering from New Year's parties and recuperating before getting back to the office tomorrow :)

@kviiri alright over here

@Shalvenay hi all! sup?

@Szega not a whole lot, really. hoping to catch up to a few folks later on today...

hey there @nitsua60

@Shalvenay hiya. Do you know what "ditching" specifies in an aviation context? I'm listening to an NTSB hearing and the Airbus witness is discussing their inclusion of "planned ditching with engine thrust" and "planned ditching without engine thrust" as two separate checklists; it's making me realize that "ditching" is probably a term of art meant to convey a lot more than I'm getting from it.

@nitsua60 ditching is basically "landing a plane on water when that plane's not designed to land on water"

@nitsua60 I presume it's the hearing from Flight 1549 from the context you're giving?

Ok. So ditching vs. crashing == water vs. land?

@nitsua60 well, ditching vs. forced landing

(or "outlanding" if you're a glider pilot)

Yeah. I finally got around to watching "Sully" last night, and now I've got ~24 hrs of non-fiction to accompany my 2 hrs dramatization =)

@nitsua60 yeah, the NTSB investigation was quite in-depth

(FWIH, the movie wasn't all that fair to the NTSB either)

speaking of getting around to things, I take it you haven't had the chance to read over the logs from the D&D session I ran with the pastoralist Orcs?

@Shalvenay The writers were open about that: they basically said that they needed something (other than the forced water landing in January with zero loss of life) to inject some dramatic tension, so made NTSB out to be more hostile than they certainly appear in the public hearing.

@nitsua60 yeah, I see where the writers were going, and you could see it almost as an alternate-history flick in that regard

One example is that they present the NTSB as having pilots in the simulators making successful landings at both LaGuardia and Teeterboro; Sullenberger (in the film) challenges them to add in some reasonable delay factor for the pilots to experience the bird strike, try the prescribed engine restart, call it in, and get the new heading instruction from ATC.

But in reality NTSB did run sims with zero delay, in their words, "to establish a range of what might have been possible." And those zero-delay sims resulted in ~50% successful landings. Then the NTSB was the one who ran it with reasonable delays; those sims were never successful at reaching either airport.

So the film could have just had them present the successful sims, have the crowd react, give some of the "historically-correct" Sully-reflections second-guessing himself, then have NTSB present the "realistic" sims confirming that Sully's choice was the safest one.

For my money you'd get the tension without the ahistoricity.

@Shalvenay I'm not too interested in reading play-logs, sorry.

OTOH I am seeing a scandal in the NTSB hearing: board of inquiry uses IE as its browser.

@nitsua60 :P blame the Federal gov't as a whole for that, probably gov't-wide policy :P

OMG it looks like they're using WinXP.

In 2009.

I think I was using WinXP back then too, because Vista wasn't too good and Windows 7 only came out later in the year.

My first Vista machine was bought in a hurry and had weird issues with the installation, which was the reason I became a Linux user back then.

Yeah, I'm looking back at release dates and realizing my memory is off by a few years.

@nitsua60 heheheh

@Miniman seems to me this question has an easy answer: "yes it's fair, because all participants know the rules and can make informed choices." Somehow, though, I don't think that's quite what the querent's actually asking, though =|

@nitsua60 I think the problem with that is that it's pretty clear from the context that's not the answer the querent is looking for, yeah.

hey there @sevenbrokenbricks

hello

how're things going?

sloooooooow

@sevenbrokenbricks pretty slow here as well

did get to use my pastoralist Orcs though, and they were a success :)

yeah?

@sevenbrokenbricks basically, I took the classic Orc traits of being short-tempered and physically capable and laid them onto a different background -- because, yanno, that'd make sense in the context of a nomadic herding society

Oh nice

basically "Mongol cowboys"

it gives a lot more room for them to have civilization if you will :)

they are somewhat savvy at trade, and are hospitable folks to those who come in peace as that's how they wish to be treated. just don't start a fight with them!

Haha I love that mental image

@sevenbrokenbricks xD the "Mongol cowboys" one?

Yeah

@sevenbrokenbricks xD

I do want to give them a whirl with someone steeped in AD&D/2e tradition though

That was the tail end of when I got in on D&D

er, rather, the tail end of that is when I got in

@sevenbrokenbricks yeah. my first try with them was as part of a custom short-form adventure I made for them to intro them to D&D

fetch-quest with some plot twists basically

how'd they take it?

@Shalvenay Yeah, all cleaned up, and now all sobered up. :)

@sevenbrokenbricks quite nicely

@KorvinStarmast cool, good to hear :) got any big plans for today?

Football and painting the kitchen. The some D&D later with my usual group. Bring in the new year in a varied way. You?

@KorvinStarmast not a whole lot over here. poking at REing a dead furnace control board for funsies

Sounds like fun, your furnace or someone else's?

@KorvinStarmast came off my furnace, yeah

Best wishes. We don't usually get 30 degree weather here in Corpus, got down to 34 last night. Chilly. :)

@KorvinStarmast we got it replaced a while ago, I've had the dead board as a trophy ever since

@Shalvenay Then you can play mad scientist ... :)

hey there @ACuriousMind

heya

how're things going?

Slowly recovering from greeting the new year :P

@ACuriousMind OK here. got to take my pastoralist orcs for a whirl late last week :)

Ah, nice

@ACuriousMind went rather nicely, which is nice, although I still want to run them for a grognard type and see what they think

@ACuriousMind -- what's your schedule look like for the new year? we have a nice window here in January to get this DW stuff wrapped before Nits' ToA game starts up

@Shalvenay During the week won't work due to time zones I think, but my weekends are still largely available

@ACuriousMind alrighty. we can see about tomorrow BTW since I'm off tomorrow

hey there @Asteria :D

@Shalvenay heey heeyyy

@Asteria how're things going? got a bunch to share with you on Discord re: the questions that came up last we chatted

@Shalvenay things are crazy hectic, what with christmas and newyears and going back to work after a break and what not. I'm happy to jump on discord if you'd like, but I can't promise consistency with my presence (RE: craziness)

@Asteria nods to Discord we go then

hello

hey hey @eimyr

oo, @Asteria what's up?

@eimyr the ceiling, sky, expectations to fail new years resolutions. whats up with chu

[insert a thousand yard stare gif]

I didn't make any NY resolutions, because I've never been to New York

Nor have I.....guess my resolution of "don't die this year" is useless. dang

@Asteria I have a 2018 RPG playlist though!

Nice! starting the year off strong

well, it's more like a wishlist

but by making one I can try and treat it as a goal list, with timelines, methods etc.

plus.google.com/+S%C5%82awomirW%C3%B3jcikTT/posts/BLysX4Wko8v

@eimyr Ohhh there some new ones on there

some that will be released this year or ones that only exists as drafts or playtests

2017 finally got me to back something on KS

Nice nice. hopefully you have a chance to play them all this year!

We'll see how it goes, but I'm hopeful

I'm starting the mage/fate game next week

How about you, @Asteria? Do you have such a list?

@eimyr unfortunately my hopes and dreams extend as far as [convincing my stupid groups to actually play another game gosh darn it]

@Asteria yeah, sorry, I forgot about that

@eimyr haha NP. I have a few groups I'm playing with (and one I'm DMing), but theres always that problem child player that can never make any sessions. Makes it hard to play :(

@Asteria tell me about it. do you still play if you have one no-show?

that's what I started doing with my recent games

though admittedly, when you're playing Dogs in the Vineyard or something like that, you can't really have a game without\ full attendance

@eimyr sigh I wish. Both DM's just cancel the game because "it's too hard to explain why he's not there anymore"

when, it's really not. Heck, it could be a plot device. say he was kidnapped or something. bleh

@Asteria yeah, we don't seem to have problems accommodating the occasional missing player at the tables I play in, although I admit to having a bit more trouble with that as a DM, albeit mostly because I'm DMing for smaller groups in smaller-scale things where missing a session will leave you totally lost

@Asteria that appears to be a really stupid way of dealing with it, one that I only ever saw used by inexperienced GMs or ones obsessed with perceived game consistency

if we cancel a game because of absence it's because all players start explaining, in unison, that it won't be the same without the missing player and the game is about relationships so everyone being there is kinda why we play

@eimyr see, I don't really know anyone I play with that well (bar obviously my partner) so I don't really mind if people aren't there. I just want to play the game and enjoy it

@Asteria I don't think I've ever had this situation myself. I had two games where I genuinely didn't care about other people and they both sucked and fell apart quickly.

@eimyr yeah, my experience with Rp isn't exactly "normal", haha. I have no problem playing with people I don't know/don't care about. I've only ever played one game with people I would consider "friends"

@Asteria if you don't mind me asking, if that's the case, whence does the enjoyment come?

@eimyr while I might be going into a bit of personal detail, the best way to explain it is that I'm horribly, horribly introverted and socially anxious. I haven't really had anyone I would call a "friend" for about a year now, as I struggle to meet new people and keep up old relationships, unless it's online or if I'm not "me"

@Asteria I see, and I think I kinda understand, though I have no right to say I fully comprehend how you feel. Apologies for being inquisitive.

Role-playing, for me, is a chance to not be me. Being me sucks, I'm boring. I have an easier time talking to people and expressing feelings when there not my own. I adore being in a different world, being something more. It's the world that pulls me, not the people

I'm pretty sure you're not as boring as you say, but I do sympathise with your reasons to roleplay.

@eimyr I'm a fantasy lover :P everything is boring compared to dragons

@Asteria haha, no one can compete with dragons!

Witchers, maybe, but they refuse to do so.

@eimyr hahaha. I so want to see Drogon's reaction to a retelling of the Sled Driver Speed Check story. heck, it'd have been absolutely priceless to watch his reaction if he was listening on frequency at the time

@Shalvenay any easy way to find a ballpark (or exact) number on how many passenger flights there are daily in the US? Maybe with durations, too. I just heard testimony from a lobbyist who's saying "blah blah blah because there's a pilot shortage" and a separate panelist said "there's no shortage: there are 110,000 pilots in the US today with passenger certification." I'm wondering how to figure out if that's enough.

@nitsua60 I suspect DOT has that statistic out somewhere, probably not hard to find with a bit of Googling

@eimyr that, and I also want him to watch some fighter solo kinematic demos

@eimyr "dragons don't do dirty double Immelmanns"

hey there btw @Zachiel

@Shalvenay Dragons, if they fly anything like perching birds, mostly land by employing post stall aerodynamics.

@eimyr yeah,they basically go way onto the backside of their power curve to bleed off airspeed to land

Hmm... FAA says ~25K passenger flights per day. Ignoring the lengths of those that makes for 175K passenger flights per week. One would think (naively) that a cohort of 110K pilots is "enough" to handle that.

the dirty double Immelmann is basically an E-M maneuver though, relying on high thrust, not high-AoA/post-stall capabilities

@nitsua60 yeah

@Shalvenay are you seriously discussing aerodynamics of fantastic beasts?

because AFAIK, unless they've eaten a decoy sheep, dragons have no thrust.

@eimyr hahaha xD a dragon is a biomaterials problem, not an aerodynamics problem. once you get them the biomaterials needed for structrual strength and thrust (their T-W ratio would be like a max-gross KC-135A with busted water injection on a hot, sticky day in Honolulu :P), the aerodynamics of something that size are basically a solved problem :P

@Shalvenay 2d10 flight speed

@eimyr Nobody trusts drow. Nobody thrusts dragons.

Hmm, forgot that you probably put an average of two full-on passenger-certified "pilots" on each flight. So that's 350K pilot-flights needed per week, off a cohort of 110K. Still seems eminently doable. For every trio (quad?) doing a transpacific run and getting a day on either end for recuperation--I'm guessing, but that seems reasonable--you've got people like the guy I know who runs four flights Logan<-->ACK every day he's working.

@eimyr Waaaatch it, tentacle-boy...

=D

@nitsua60 yeah, a lot of it is that the hiring situation got a bit messy with Congress rushing through stuff in the wake of the Colgan Air crash and whatnot

there's also quite a bit of competition for pilots from military and corporate/charter work

@nitsua60 what you need to find is the number of flight hours per week a pilot can work and compare it to the average flight + prep time per pilot.

@Zachiel "You'll have to thrust me. Wait! ... Don't tell the elf?"

@eimyr gets out, pushes

@Asteria so um, I've been looking for asynchronous (play by post or something, textual) gaming opportunities. Any ideas?

@eimyr as in campaigns to play, or mediums to play them by?

@eimyr Yeah, but I don't feel like digging that deep. Just wanted to do a two-minute BS-check on these two witnesses.

@Asteria campaigns, but not trad game ones.

@eimyr ah, then I might not be much help in that department, 90% of the PBP's I play/GM are freeform

@Asteria freeform can be interesting, if it has a good premise

@eimyr mhm. I love a good freeform

hey there @Papayaman1000

@Asteria It's certainly useful for async games.

@eimyr indeed, they're a lot more comfortable then something like DnD in that kind of environment.

@doppelgreener well I am glad you enjoyed my reactions because I really enjoyed these avatar hat combos

@Zachiel eewww

@BESW this guy writes about layout and design in the presentation of RPG books/rules--thought of you: denaghdesign.com/section-specific-table-contents-navigation/…

Oooh, thanks!

(New detective.)

I found it in this ENWorld list of RPG writers you can support on Patreon

Or as I titled the bookmark, "stuff to check out some time."

@eromod, @PeterCooperJr. Hi!

@BESW Uh, hello!

lookin for a dude that knows physics

Acuriousmind

hi

@eromod o/

Personally, I've most enjoyed I'll See It When I Believe It which seems to be a collection of two-page systemless FRPG scenarios.

ah yes, he pops in and out.

@eromod Oh, you're looking for ACM, not just some dude what knows physics.

@eromod why him specifically though, and not just asking in the physics.SE chat or on the mainsite there?

@eromod ACM's pingable both here and in the h bar right now.

@nitsua60 I'm assuming you've already seen it, but there's a bit of information on flights per day on the Aviation SE: aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/46358/…

thanks for the headsup