TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

12:02 AM

hey there @Yuuki

Yuuki

Hi.

Shalvenay

hey as well @ACuriousMind

nitsua60

1:03 AM

@Szega I've got to say, I don't find I agree with your numbers in the first section. Attack bonuses can be assumed +7 at L5 (+4 stat, +3 prof) so AC 20 is hit ~2/3 of the time--that's my default "normal" through the editions. Likewise proficient skills will likely range from +5 (proficient but in a secondary stat) to +10 (expertise and a primary stat) so I'd (personally) bump your DC numbers by 5.

Shalvenay

hey again @nitsua60

nitsua60

hiya

Shalvenay

I was kinda wondering if you had a chance to read through the logs with the pastoralist-Orcs...

nitsua60

That said, @Szega I largely agree with your presentation. A rule of thumb for setting difficulties, a couple of big combat differences, perhaps a pointer to Kobold Fight Club was exactly what I was thinking of putting together.

@Shalvenay Nope.

Szega

@nitsua60 AFAIR not many monsters are above AC20. Even a DC20 check is only reasonable for someone with serious investment in the skill.

Shalvenay

1:06 AM

@nitsua60 Kobold Fight Club?

nitsua60

(Crap--just violated the first rule.)

@Shalvenay kobold.club/fight/#/encounter-builder

Szega

Almost no PC can make a DC25 check

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 neato

nitsua60

@Szega Level 5 means +3 prof, suppose +4 primary stat, and you're already at 15% success. Guidance pushes that above 25%. Advantage (perhaps from being helped) puts it... I dunno, higher =)

Sure, only the person who's made that skill a focus is likely to make it, but that's the way it goes.

Szega

@nitsua60 And the problem is what exactly? 15% is crap

you can prepare high DC things, but if you wing it you should keep to 10/15/20 IMHO

nitsua60

1:10 AM

I'm saying that a DC of 20 has a L5 character proficient in that skill succeeding 2/3 of the time which I (personally) wouldn't call "hard." And that's with no bonuses (adv, guidance, bardic insp.) being brought to bear.

Szega

40% is far from 2/3 and that is assuming a +4 in the stat

nitsua60

A DC of 25 has a L5 succeeding only 15% of the time, and can only be brought up to 50% "with a little help from my friends." Which (again, my personal way of scaling it) makes sense to call hard.

Szega

if you need proficiency and a dceent stat to have a real chance, that is a hard check

nitsua60

@Szega +7 in the skill at L5 means a 13 is needed... wait, I reversed my numbers. That's not 65% success, that's 40% success.

Szega

@nitsua60 yup

nitsua60

1:12 AM

So you're absolutely right on the numbers--sorry.

Szega

np

BESW

My daughter evolved the idea last night that, when Batman's ill, all the bats in the Batcave take it upon themselves to fill in by cramming themselves into a Batsuit, wobbling themselves over to the Batmobile, and fighting crime, all the while hoping no one notices the imposture.

Tweeted by JonathanLHoward on December 30, 2017 at 2:11 PM

nitsua60

(That said, I still disagree with "if you need proficiency and a decent stat to have a chance, that's hard." I expect parties to have most skills covered in that manner.)

(Except Nature.)

Szega

@nitsua60 When properly prepared, they should be able to take on "hard" challanges. The scale should also work if they cannot choose the best PC to do it or cannot help each other.

If they succeed 50% when in their element, they can just give up if something comes to muddy the waters

nitsua60

That's a really embarrassing mistake for a math teacher who's been playing D&D over 30 years to have just made. I'm feeling a bit... sheepish.

BESW

1:20 AM

BTW, @nitsua60, I figured out what kind of sheep your avatar is.

nitsua60

Do they have two ears on each side?

BESW

The Walliser Schwarznasenschaf, or Valais Blacknose.

nitsua60

I am the forefather of other dual-colored breeds!

Shalvenay

@BESW needs a border collie sitting on the back of one of the sheep

BESW

strange watchdog flock of sheep

►

Close enough.

Also:

Meet Bella and Hank. They have a commensal relationship in which Bella benefits and Hank neither benefits nor is harmed. 13/10 for both

Tweeted by dog_rates on December 25, 2017 at 12:54 AM

BESW

1:48 AM

@nitsua60 It's even less AL-legal, but I like doing initiative by having the person who started the conflict go first, and then they pick who goes next, and that person picks who goes next, and so on.

No rolling at all, we just slide right into it.

nitsua60

2:09 AM

@BESW Certainly not AL-legal, but is mentioned in the DMG as a variant worth trying out.

Shalvenay

2:40 AM

thoughts re: D&D -- what would be the absolute bare minimum that would make a workable set of thieves' tools?

BESW

A wizard friend?

nitsua60

2:58 AM

@Shalvenay google.com/patents/…

even as of 1880s a torsion device and some picks are what you're looking for to deal with the world's best (at the time) lock

I think it's really just a selection of lengths, strengths, jogs, and notches...

Wait, you said thieves' tools, not just lockpicks.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 yeah, I'm actually kind of wondering what you'd need besides your tensioner and pick, because you can get away with 2 tensioners at most (1 top of keyway 1 bottom of keyway) and a "hybrid" pick/rake such as the Sparrows Medusa

sparrowslockpicks.com/product_p/med.htm

BESW

I don't think it's possible to answer without knowing the character's goals and the setting's conceits.

Like, depending on your target there may not be any non-magical objects which would help at all but a scroll of dispel magic may be indispensable.

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah, I"m talking about the physical stuff here -- magic items are above and beyond anything that'd go in this set

(the other assumption would be that this would be an EDC (everyday carry) sort of thing for the char carrying it)

BESW

Then... even within a single setting, D&D tends to run the gamut from Babylonian to Renaissance technologies depending on where in the world you are.

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah, i'm talking something closer to a medium-magic Faerun (as that's kind of the "stock" assumptions 5e makes)

nitsua60

3:05 AM

Arm sling and fake arm and miniblade for pickpocketing. Picks and chisels for B&E. Silenced armor for wetwork. Weaponblack and facepaint, ditto. Short lines and hardware for second-story work. (Think what climbers call dogbones and quickdraws, with one good multi-nut.) Some dog-confounding pepper.

BESW

Also: are you a second-story cat burglar? A bank robber? A con artist? etc.

nitsua60

And a face anyone'd trust.

BESW

What are the laws in your area like? When any murder carried the death penalty in Britain, thieves carried deliberately hard-to-kill-with weapons like blackjacks, more than knives or guns.

@Ash The Verge: The best science fiction, fantasy, and horror novels of 2017

user15026

@BESW this is a great list. I've read quite a number of these!

BESW

Cool. Any you particularly recommend?

trogdor

4:03 AM

@BESW nice, glad you manged it without me :)

Shalvenay

hey there @Acts7Seven

Acts7Seven

@Shalvenay hey how's it going?

Shalvenay

@Acts7Seven alright here, as for you?

user15026

4:34 AM

@BESW I liked Bear and the Nightingale, The Wanderers, I found the Stars are Legion rather boring (the internet massively disagrees with me on that one though), I absolutely loved All Systems Red. I will recommend the Binti series endlessly. (her Akata Witch stuff is also stellar).

BESW

Have you read Who Fears Death?

I loved Lagoon but found Who Fears Death nearly unreadable --nothing against the author, just a writing style I couldn't push through. So I'm a bit wary of anything else by Okorafor.

Acts7Seven

5:00 AM

@Shalvenay going well. Prepping for a new years party. Unfortunately no game time tho. So I get an off week as GM

Shalvenay

@Acts7Seven ah. not much prep to be had here :)

user15026

@BESW yes, I have. I did not like it's style much. But I loved her other stuff.

Acts7Seven

@Shalvenay which side of the pond are you on?

Shalvenay

@Acts7Seven Western Hemisphere

Acts7Seven

@Shalvenay ahh. Well hope it's good regardless

Shalvenay

5:11 AM

@Acts7Seven aye, should be alright :)

BESW

New season of The Librarians. New villainous group is dedicated to eradicating knowledge and learning. Their leader recites things that sound like classical quotations, but they're all stuff he just makes up. Well played.

Magician

I should catch up on Librarians. Though it's just a bit too campy for my tastes.

Shalvenay

@BESW hahahaha :D

BESW

5:31 AM

@Magician Sooo campy. They make National Treasure look sober and serious.

BESW

5:55 AM

> Perfect math. Once per session, pick a specific thing that's too complicated or random to predict. For the rest of that session, you automatically succeed at all attempts to predict that thing, provided no human choice is directly involved except your own. (You should still roll as appropriate, to check if you succeed with style.)

Acts7Seven

7:41 AM

Where can I ask a question that doesn't have an answer but would have many responses?

Hers my question

Do you have a Pegasus in your adventure?

Meaning... Do you have a constantly reoccurring monster or feature that frequently toys with your playyers?

Miniman

8:21 AM

@Acts7Seven If you want a wide range of responses, maybe reddit?

Zachiel

9:00 AM

@Shalvenay we don't have darkstalkers in our game.

Miatog

10:34 AM

@Magician But the camp is the best part!

BESW

10:50 AM

@Miatog One of the things I like about The Librarians is that it feels exactly like the sort of campaign my group would play.

2

(This isn't entirely incidental; one of the show's lead writers uses a character/relationship notation inspired by the RPG system we default to.)

BESW

11:12 AM

Seriously though, @doppelgreener, @trogdor, if/when we revise the Amaterasu game, I think The Librarians may provide a model we can trace around.

trogdor

12:34 PM

@BESW ok cool

Shalvenay

2:59 PM

@Zachiel huh, as in "that book is banned"?

Shalvenay

3:55 PM

hey there @Erics

kviiri

5:17 PM

Hiya

Shalvenay

5:47 PM

hey there @kviiri and @Acts7Seven

kviiri

6:01 PM

Yay, new gold badge ^^

Shalvenay

@kviiri oh? which one?

kviiri

@Shalvenay Populist

Shalvenay

@kviiri ah, fun

kviiri

I guess that's easier to earn here than on many other sites because many questions are a bit subjective here.

doppelgreener

6:44 PM

Could someone who has read Curse of Strahd, and doesn't mind spoilers, check out this question -> curse of strahd spoilers! <- and tell me whether the content in the quote is describing game material, and whether it's spoilery?

@BESW Could you tell me about it from your perspective, and what appeals to you about doing that?

I've heard you mention it but I'm not sure what it's like, so I'll have to find a way to watch some of it.

Shalvenay

hey there @inthemanual

DuckTapeAl

8:23 PM

Hey, so, do I get a badge for the first time someone calls me a mod?

:P

Shalvenay

hey there @DuckTapeAl, how've things been? sure has been a while

DuckTapeAl

Hi @Shalvenay! Things are okay. I think since the last time I've been on here I've been unemployed and reemployed once each.

How about you?

Shalvenay

@DuckTapeAl fine, fine. managed to get a 2nd DW game as well as bunch more D&D in (even have an in-person table slated to start back up in January sometime), still no opportunity re: GURPS tho

@DuckTapeAl been playing around with some race-redefinition stuff too. sadly, don't have a campaign premise yet I feel comfortable running

DuckTapeAl

Race redefinition? Like, changing around what elves and dwarves are and stuff?

Shalvenay

@DuckTapeAl Orcs were my target of choice, actually

@DuckTapeAl finally got to take my pastoralist-Orcs for a whirl in a 1on1 I ran for a friend, and it came out quite nicely

DuckTapeAl

8:38 PM

Cool!

Shalvenay

@DuckTapeAl want me to tell you more about them btw?

DuckTapeAl

Sure!

Shalvenay

it's basically a "Mongol cowboy" theme -- skilled riders and archers, nomadic or mostly nomadic (caravans stopping at what basically are trading-posts/settlements)

a bit short-tempered and quick to arms, but because "who's going to do your dirty work for you when someone's trying to eat or steal your livelihood out on the open range?"

DuckTapeAl

Sounds pretty cool.

Shalvenay

but all in all, still good-natured folks who appreciate and share the virtues of hospitality, and are also reasonably savvy traders

has some nice room for range wars in there, too

DuckTapeAl

8:55 PM

That sounds close enough to standard orcs to be familiar, while being different enough to be interesting.

BESW

@doppelgreener The Librarians is very much like Warehouse 13, in that it's set in present day Earth with the twist that magical objects exist and their use always exacts a price. The main characters are a small team that identifies and neutralizes magic items when they cause trouble, and then brings the object back to their collection for safekeeping

But Librarians feels a lot more like a Fate game--especially one of ours--for a few reasons.

Shalvenay

@DuckTapeAl aye, that was kind of the idea :) take some of the standard orc traits (physicality, short temper) and really recontextualize them based on some of the things we know about the various kinds of human societies

BESW

First, it's about a small group of people who are each the very best in the world at a particular skill set --master thief, perfect mental math, world's greatest historian. If it were Fate, they'd probably each have an Atomic Robo style "absolutely better than a human" type stunt.

Second, there's structure to the stories which reminds me of brainstorming. Every magical problem has a source of power, a focus that controls the power, and an effect that's produced.

Often the Librarians arrive only knowing the effect, and have to track down the power and focus and figure out which is easier to interrupt in order to stop the effect.

Third, there's a lot of character growth going on and they can totally break the world if they give in to their troubles too much.

doppelgreener

9:11 PM

this sounds kinda neat.

and useful!

BESW

Like, one season ends with the entire world being infused with too much magic because they didn't stop the villain in time at the finale, so the whole next season is about running around after all the new magic stuff that's popping up.

And most importantly, I think, it really does feel like the whole thing is seat-of-the-pants improvisation that might shake apart at any moment.

Shalvenay

@DuckTapeAl -- although the game I used them in was kind of developed around a specific character, I could see about re-running it for you or we could come up with some other application for them

BESW

The power/focus/effect setup gives just enough structure to let brainstorming and improvisation hold the whole thing together and let their character arcs inform the themes of each episode at least as much as the logic of the mystery does.

The stories get very goofy.

doppelgreener

i'd probably need to watch it to get an idea of the narrative flow so that i can get what it takes to identify a source and stuff, and utilise those tropes the way i can utilise stargate's tropes

BESW

Yeah, it's just... very familiar-feeling.

A lot of the things we liked best about Amaterasu, seem to be reflected in Librarians.

Right down to stopping in the middle of a very tense moment to bicker, and getting caught because of it.

doppelgreener

9:28 PM

nice :D

BESW

Oh, and you know how we wanted to have a ridiculous cover story?

"Hi, we're the librarians" gets them into an improbable number of restricted areas.

If you're familiar with Leverage, a lot of the tone is similar.

doppelgreener

I'm not; nice.

That's the heist show, but I haven't watched it yet.

BESW

There's also a few The Librarian films, which came first and star just one guy.

They aren't quite the same tonally in terms of what I'm thinking would make good RPG fodder, but they're good fun.

nitsua60

Greetings, travelers from the future!!! When you have a moment, we cavemen would love a dispatch summarizing all the glorious developments from twenty-eighteen =D

BESW

Loud noises.

At first it was bangs and screaming, but around 6 in the morning it was mostly just 80s pop hits.

nitsua60

9:43 PM

Sounds a lot like me, trying to get up for work.

=)

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

nitsua60

hiya

doppelgreener

@BESW I found out today why my alarm clock wasn't working!! I bought a special one to help me wake up when the sun is up only after like, 9am -- it does it by lighting up my room -- but it turns out i have to switch on the alarm each night for the next morning or something, and I wasn't doing that.

BESW

Ooer.

That seems like a flaw.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 how're things going?

doppelgreener

9:47 PM

@BESW i'm inclined to agree... i'd want it on more mornings than not.

BESW

Does it maybe have a third setting that's not obvious?

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Good. Though running four sessions in three separate campaigns in five days is... challenging.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 heheheh.

doppelgreener

@BESW i'll give the instruction manual another read, and see if the setting "sticks" rather than having to be switched on each night

BESW

@doppelgreener Name? I could do some Googles.

@nitsua60 Thought of you:

They’re off.🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑

Tweeted by AmandaOwen8 on December 30, 2017 at 9:39 PM

doppelgreener

9:53 PM

@BESW Lumie Bodyclock Starter 30

BESW

Ah, nope. "When you’re ready to go to sleep you need to explicitly activate the sunrise for the following morning."

(Page 7 of the English manual.)

Shalvenay

is it like a dedicated button, or like 5 layers deep in the menus? :P

BESW

It's pressing one button if you also want a sunset, pressing and holding a second button to make it just go dark immediately.

nitsua60

shalvey's practical solution, of course, is breaking off a toothpick in the activation mechanism =)

BESW

It's not exactly a dedicated button though.

> Shalvenay's Practical Solution. You get +2 when Forcefully overcoming mechanical problems.

nitsua60

10:02 PM

> Shalvenay's Impractical Solution. You get +2 when Forcefully overcoming electronic problems.

doppelgreener

@BESW i might buy a different wake-up clock <_<;

but i'll see how this one goes

BESW

Yeah, I mean, I have an alarm clock that needs to be set every night, but it's analog.

nitsua60

A 7 year-old's incisive observation: "daddy, are you trying to be nonchalant? 'Cause that's not it."

BESW

Were you whistling cheerfully and leaning against something with your hands in your pockets?

nitsua60

I was getting a large insect off the wall near my wife without trying to alert my wife to the presence of a large insect on the wall near my wife.

Shalvenay

10:15 PM

@nitsua60 what sort of large insect? XD

BESW

The kind on the wall near his wife.

Shalvenay

hey there @Acts7Seven

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Six legs, antennae, a flattish body about the size and shape of a guitar pick.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 kinda beetle-ish?

nitsua60

maybe?

Shalvenay

10:33 PM

@nitsua60 bio.se question maybe (although you'd probably need photos of the thing)?

doppelgreener

it is probably enough that it is (a) an insect (b) that was on the wall (c) near his wife (d) and no longer there, or at least i presume so

Papayaman1000

Hey all! I'm looking for willing guinea pigs to try out a "simultaneous initiative" idea I've been throwing around for D&D 5e.

BESW

What's the conceit?

Papayaman1000

10:52 PM

Gah, sorry.

So basically, as I dumped at Shal earlier:

"Everything happens more-or-less simultaneously, with a few exceptions (such as healing taking place last, and I've also considered making spells and/or ranged attacks take place later than melee attacks because martial classes just get no love anymore). You can also give special commands, such as staying engaged with a target, or moving in a certain direction in regards to where they go. This also leads to the complication that you may flee one enemy, only to run into another, or not notice in your heated duel with them that they're…

BESW

So, your goal is to change the game so that tactical choices are made simultaneously by everyone and then resolved concurrently so that there's less reaction and more prediction, to create less predictability about the outcome of one's choices?

Shalvenay

hey there @JuneShores

Hi hi.

how're things going?

Going alright.

11:03 PM

doin' fine here. got to take my pastoralist Orcs for a spin introducing a friend to D&D and they worked out quite nicely :)

JuneShores

Neeeat.

trogdor

@doppelgreener oh my god, XD your avatar

BESW

@Papayaman1000 Have you looked at non-D&D initiative systems which deal with similar play goals? Burning Wheel, Sorcerer, 3:16 Carnage Amongst the Stars, various declare/act variants from Shadowrun to White Wolf...

Papayaman1000

Not recently. Just sorta idle musing in between sessions so far.

BESW

Or the platonic ideal of the simultaneous choice/resolve game, En Garde!

(Don't copy En Garde. En Garde is awful except as a very patient play-by-email game.)

KorvinStarmast

11:35 PM

@nitsua60 Happy to move ToA to a month later, just keep me posted. :) Please send me an email at th email address I provided during previous discussion.

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast Of course--thanks for understanding.

@Papayaman1000 I'm always happy to try giving something a spin.

Papayaman1000

coolio

Shalvenay

hey there @KorvinStarmast

@Papayaman1000 btw: check Discord :)

trogdor

@BESW nice new detective there

BESW

@trogdor I thought you might like him.