TRPG General Chat

KorvinStarmast

17:00

I keep getting invited to micro brew places for a meet up and end up with beer that is awful. I like the social meet ups, but the I don't pretend the beer is any good. Most of it isn't. Sturgeon's law applies doubly to beer in micro brews. My general feeling is "sorry, pal, you aren't the next Sam Adams." And now beer stores ...

Fill their shelves with pretentious and bad micro brew, making it harder to find drinkable beer. In the process, they stop carrying some nice imports like Sapporo, a variety of German beers and lagers, and some of the better English ales. I thank Texas for still having Shiner around ... but even t hey are falling prey to 'bad beer sells, let's make some!'

Rant over, and I count as a blessing the fact that rye whiskey has made a comeback.

GreySage

@KorvinStarmast Remember, almost all "microbrews" are actually owned by the same giant beer companies. They just realized that people think "Looks like a small business = good quality".

Adam

17:16

@KorvinStarmast There was a skit I remember seeing where a guy was talking about the beers he liked with one of his friends and his friend was a caricature beer snob, drinking nothing but double/triple/quadruple IPAs and bragging about how his favorite beers are all crazy bitter. I didn't realize that people had standard units for beer bitterness till I saw that skit.

godskook

17:27

@KorvinStarmast, as someone with an unusual pallette, I find the vast majority of "normal" beers to be sub-par swill that causes me to wonder why people drink them. And while my selection of micro-brews hasn't been much better, its at least been slightly better. In other words, put the Corona, Miller, Bud, and PBR away, and bring out the Micro Brews, at least they're trying to taste good.

NautArch

The whole IPA race to cover flavor with hops is bizarre

That I don't really get

But I've had a few sips/spits or gose and sours that are really yummy

Adam

@NautArch As I understood it, IPAs originally had more hops in them out of necessity. The extra hops and bittering agents helped act as a preservative while the beer was exported. Other beers would just spoil on the trip. How that turned into a race for the most bitter beer ever in modernity, I don't know.

godskook

17:47

Partially probably because some people(not me) actually like that kind of flavor.

Yuuki

18:05

I wonder how much watching movie analysis like Lessons From The Screenplay would help with DMing.

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, I'm not a fan of IPAs although I do like the occasional stout.

NautArch

@Adam that's exactly right. The trip to India was long and hot. Cover up that spoiled beer taste!

KorvinStarmast

18:21

@Yuuki Our local microbrew that I will now and again go to after work has a passable porter, and a decent stout. All else is rubbish, since the one drinkable lager they had they don't make anymore. On a hot day, I rarely care for a porter. On a cool afternoon, yeah.

On the bright side, all of these microbrews does mean more people are getting to live the dream of running their own business and making their own beer. So that's a plus.

@godskook godskook, I broke into beer drinking in the 70's with Bud, PBR, Old Milwaukee, and the occasional exotic like Carta Blanca. I discovered real ale in the UK in the 80's, and fell in love with a proper pint then. Plenty of time enjoying German beer purity laws in Germany drinking German beer.

Some days, a bud suffices. (Usually a hot day with a cold bud). If I am drinking a beer to sip and savor, Guinness and some of the richer, heavier concoctions suffice. (Boddington's is one such). Those beers don't try to do too much.

godskook

As one not familiar with German Purity Laws, huh?

Yuuki

Despite being similar shapes, the vuvuzela is the opposite of Gabriel's Horn: finite surface area but with infinite volume.

@godskook Basically WWII.

KorvinStarmast

if you don't meet certain standards, you are not permitted to make beer in Germany. They take their beer seriously, and the product shows. :)

godskook

@Yuuki, different set of laws, I'm sure :P

Yuuki

@godskook :P

nwp

18:27

@KorvinStarmast That's a very favorable interpretation. A less favorable interpretation is that it destroys competition and innovation by only allowing 4 ingredients.

KorvinStarmast

nwp, I am not sure if you are on board with the elegance of simplicity, but I appreciate it. Likewise with la pizza vera, a la Naples. only a very few places can qualify for the actual Pizzeria Napolitana mark, and there's a reason for it. Adherence to strict formula and quality standards.

One of the few that does that is Dough, in San Antonio. They do the real thing.

@nwp Further that point, the Germans are protecting their national reputation as quality beer makers. That was a hard earned rep, and IMO they are smart not to open that rep to any old "well, I am German and it's beer" enterprise. Good Reputation IRL is so easily lost, and so hard to earn.

With a lot of the micro brews, I feel like I am getting the alpha version of software. For the prices they charge, no thanks. Rather have a glass of water.

nwp

I'm not a fan of "national reputation". Way too many people to do any reasonable quality assurance. And the law doesn't even assure quality, it just limits the ingredients to what you are allowed to call beer. And you can brew some really bad stuff with those ingredients.

KorvinStarmast

@nwp You can, but you'll go out of business. When I am in Germany and order a beer, I have a fair expectation of a good glass or stein of beer. (Same if I buy a case of Spaten).

nwp

@KorvinStarmast And the national reputation does nothing to stop you, hence it is every brewery on its own. So you may as well not have the law.

And then there is this stuff which I like much more than any beer. It would probably count as beer if it wasn't illegal to call it that.

KorvinStarmast

@nwp I'll suggest to you that the non performers are cooked in a stew of their own making rather quickly. ;)

Berliner Kindl and Schultheiss are the two beers I remember best from living in Germany as a kid; Was trinken wir? Schultheiss Bier!

nwp

18:43

I liked drinking kozel in czechia. Might have been a combination with the sweet food they have.

KorvinStarmast

My chance to travel there went "poof" back in 97, and the few times we have tried to travel to Europe again have all gone south. Some day, I'll visit Prague and various other places nearby. Bucket list, but for the moments, boycott airlines unless forced to travel.

Hmm, I'll see if my local high end alcohol/beer place (Specs) had Kozel. Not familiar, but I've come to enjoy Pilsners more over the years.

godskook

@nwp, technically, if the law doesn't prohibit the serving of "non-beer" beers, then all the law is doing is restricting language, not commerce.

SevenSidedDie

18:59

@godskook @nwp Note that it hasn't been the law for a while – it was repealed in 1987. (It no longer served its original purpose of preventing bidding wars between 16th century breweries and bakers for ingredients…)

godskook

@SevenSidedDie, that paragraph contains "quality assurance" as one of its(at least possible) original purposes.

SevenSidedDie

@godskook Yes, it's more complicated than just a bidding war. :) But you have to remember that back then, “quality assurance” was the difference between using random weird things people thought (but didn't) work as preservatives, and ensuring the use of hops (which did). Laws are generally made to solve real problems at the time; the modern discussions about what qualifies as “beer” are nearly unrelated to the law's motivation.

godskook

@SevenSidedDie, also, the changes in 1987 only affected imported beer, not german-made beer.

SevenSidedDie

@godskook Oh huh, I read elsewhere it was a full repeal.

godskook

@SevenSidedDie, was someone in this conversation saying anything that relied upon the law's -original- motivation? I was certainly not.

@SevenSidedDie, I only know cause of the link you posted, so....

SevenSidedDie

19:06

@godskook I was responding to the part of the conversation about quality assurance. The law doesn't really have anything to do with our modern notions of quality assurance.

nwp

According to this the law is still in effect. Foreign beers are allowed to be sold under the name "beer" even if they don't follow the restriction if they are called beer in the country of origin.

godskook

@SevenSidedDie, well, I think that the Law certainly serves the purpose of modern quality assurance, to some degree, regardless of its intent or original implementation.

nwp

So they could find some other city called Berlin (there are plenty in the US) where the law doesn't care what you call beer and import it to germany from there to circumvent the law.

Totally RAW and totally not RAI, that's the way it's supposed to be :P

godskook

We need more game designers to run for political office.

The gaming community will have to take that hit for society.

NautArch

@godskook no one who should run for office does. Those who shouldn't do.

unless there's a politician here...then my apologies :P

nwp

19:14

Let's elect the ~~God King~~ world GM.

godskook

Honestly, I do wonder how strong of a voting bloc a Gamer candidate could command.

Yuuki

Probably not much.

1) I don't think "gamers" as a group is one that would that would show up to the polls. 2) I don't think gamers are a group that would vote because the candidate is a gamer.

3) Good luck getting Xbox One users to vote for someone who only owns a PS4.

Although that's more of a video game thing than tabletop.

Adam

I think the stereotype of "gamers" being hesitant to vote is given too much credit. Though, I also think that "gamer" is a pretty useless demographic.

By which I mean, when you use "gamer" as a demographic, I don't think you get a lot of useful data from it outside of game related statistics.

Yuuki

Pretty much, it's such a broad demographic that there's nothing really unifying between one gamer and next.

SevenSidedDie

in Mathematics, 13 mins ago, by Akiva Weinberger

@SevenSidedDie Your username is messing with my brain a little

The hazards of dropping into chat rooms that aren't RPG-related…

Yuuki

19:26

Like it or not, there are demonstrable socioeconomic differences between various racial groups that allow some homogeneity to emerge.

SevenSidedDie

(Which then spawned an ongoing conversation about randomisers.)

Yuuki

So there are values that you can assume are core to each group.

I can't really think of a single value that's true for every gamer.

Other than "plays games".

NautArch

@Yuuki even that could be incomplete. DO all game designers play games?

Yuuki

@NautArch Judging by some games I've seen, some designers might not have played a single game in their life. :P

Adam

@NautArch Also, what constitutes a game? Are table top games, games? Are we only talking about video games? Only console games? Do sports count as games? Games can be sports after all.

SevenSidedDie

19:32

@Adam "Gamer" in popular currency (i.e., outside of the many actual gamer subcultures) appears to be nearly exclusively used for videogamers.

NautArch

@Adam sports players are generally referred to as "athletes". While in America, Sportsmen are typically those who hunt/fish.

Adam

I am well versed in the typical lingo and usage. I was only noting questions that I feel demonstrate how useless the term really is as a demographic.

SevenSidedDie

@Adam It is fairly useless, aye.

NautArch

@SevenSidedDie sorry, feeling pedantic today I guess :/

SevenSidedDie

@NautArch *gasp* Pedantry? In an RPG chat?! :D

NautArch

19:37

@SevenSidedDie NEVER!

SevenSidedDie

Pedantry might as well be the cultural sport. (But we don't get called “athletes”…)

NautArch

@SevenSidedDie but sometimes "mathletes"

godskook

@SevenSidedDie, his brain is WEAK, :P

Adam

@godskook The elder brain is accepting to all...

godskook

@Adam, only if he's hungry

SevenSidedDie

19:41

@godskook Is he ever not?

doppelgreener

KorvinStarmast

@SevenSidedDie If someone called you a "pedalete" I think you'd get concerned, as there are other "ped" prefixes that cause concern.

SevenSidedDie

@KorvinStarmast My first thought is “that's probably a walking athlete”, but point: that's a prefix on shaky ground.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch In re: "no one who should run for office does. Those who shouldn't do. nless there's a politician here...then my apologies :P" There are/were moderators who ran for office, in the conversation at the time. 8^D

@SevenSidedDie I have been trying to come up with a good joke that folds in the old kid's game of "freeze tag" with my (doomed) proposal for a cheese tag, and can't get it to scan. Blah, comedy writing ain't for the feint of heart.

SevenSidedDie

SE does try to avoid having modding be a political position though. (It's why nominees who run on a political “platform” or “issue” are often controversial.)

@KorvinStarmast Well dodged. ;)

KorvinStarmast

19:57

If I came from across the pond you could call it the British evasion, per the Beatles, but it's home groan.

someone stop him before he puns again ...

Here's an idea inspired by Kinky Friedman, who I voted for in the 2006 gubernatorial election in Texas (on the basis that most politicians are funny by accident, he's funny on purpose). To win votes, you have to make the best word play so that all of the candidates will be punning for office.

Get that hook away from me!

SevenSidedDie

@KorvinStarmast Good puns are like fine wines and single-origin coffees: an acquired taste but very appreciated by devotees.

KorvinStarmast

Yeah, I must sign off but will doubtless be back in due course. Best wishes.

doppelgreener

@KorvinStarmast [homing groan]

@KorvinStarmast damn that's good

@SevenSidedDie come to think of it, one of the measures of being a good moderator i hadn't considered might be flexibility: stacks change over time, and it's valuable to have moderators who are happy to adapt.

and who can determine when it's good to go with the flow, versus when the change should be pushed back on as something compromising the site's value.

SevenSidedDie

@doppelgreener Yeah. I think that's a pretty tough line to find and walk, too.

doppelgreener

@SevenSidedDie for sure

NautArch

20:05

@KorvinStarmast not entirely equating Mod-hood with office. But loved Kinky Friedman! I had just left texas in 2006.

doppelgreener

were it possible i would vote for vermin supreme

Adam

20:21

@KorvinStarmast ignore my comment! I cannot read today

doppelgreener

@Adam you are ban

bye

Adam

@doppelgreener Please do! Thank you!

SevenSidedDie

@Adam (Verdict!)

… And now we have to strike up fresh conversation to push that up off the page.

godskook

@doppelgreener I wanna see a run-off between Vermin Supreme and Lord Buckethead

doppelgreener

@godskook me too

@SevenSidedDie [de-gifs it?]

NautArch

20:31

@godskook Should we include Waldo?

godskook

Where?

SevenSidedDie

@doppelgreener Hm, too bad we can't have cake and eat it too, with a oneboxed still that clicks through to the animated one.

NautArch

@godskook who

godskook

@NautArch, has this Waldo ever participated in an actual election?

Cause....the others have.

NautArch

@godskook an actual fictional election :( Maybe just this guy, then

AND he has amazing facial hair

godskook

20:37

Jimmy McMillan

James McMillan III (born December 1, 1946) is an American political activist, perennial candidate, karate expert, and Vietnam War veteran, as well as a former postal worker, stripper and private investigator from Brooklyn, New York. McMillan is best known as the founder of the Rent Is Too Damn High Party, a New York-based political party. McMillan has run for office at least six times since 1993, most notably in the 2010 gubernatorial election. He declared in December 2010 that he would run in the 2012 U.S. presidential election as a Republican. He did not appear on the ballot in any state and...

That's just an actual politician

SevenSidedDie

@godskook That is some impressive beardage.

KorvinStarmast

@Adam Whatever that was, no worries, I presume it was meant as banter. All good.

I like the "rent is too damn high" party and I don't even live in New York. Jimmy McMillan for President! Works for me.

Adam

@KorvinStarmast No, I made a comment on the fire bolt/sacred flame question, but then immediately realized it was based on me misreading the question. So I promptly deleted it

KorvinStarmast

Oh, cool. I think I got the right answer, mathjax skills need to be applied now.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I wasn't going anywhere near that question :)

SevenSidedDie

20:56

Hey hey, the OP finally got back to us… but very minimally:

2

Q: In Out of the Abyss, do the NPCs get a full share of XP?

This is my first time GMing. I am unsure as to whether the other NPCs could be leveling up with the PCs. I do not see any rules for it, but it doesn't make a great deal of sense for them not to if they are participating in defense, etc. EDIT: I was referring to the escapees.

NautArch

derp. and i'm guessing that may be a spoiler?

SevenSidedDie

I don't know OotA well enough to judge if the question is actually answerable now (do those escapees automatically join the party or are they wandering off elsewhere?), but maybe someone else here does.

@NautArch The question is vague enough that I don't think it's even near spoilers. :/

NautArch

@SevenSidedDie heh. probably. Just don't know anything about it and "escapees" sounds spoilerish.

Szega

AFAIK the whole thing starts with a prison break, so only spoiling the first 2 minutes :)

SevenSidedDie

@Szega @NautArch Yeah, it's one of those AFAIK.

KorvinStarmast

21:05

Slave Traders of the Undercity redux in the Underdark ...

doppelgreener

How many people here would be interested in our chat having a dark theme? I'm considering writing a script for it.

godskook

Do you have access to the CSS file?

nitsua60

OotA: first scene is "wake up in a prison cell, maybe you should get to know some of the others in the cell with you." And their default is to suggest moving all as a caravan, so unless there's a reason not to accept someone into the group, they're coming.

@SevenSidedDie That's an interesting room. I'd been hanging out there pretty consistently the last few weeks, trying to help where I could with some (self-)moderation issues. Got told I should "go solve some real problems" by a teenager, at which point a few regulars chimed in with "he's cool, be cool" (paraphrased). A serious improvement from where the room had been a month ago, best I can tell.

SevenSidedDie

21:22

@nitsua60 Ah. Hm, then do you think you could make a stab at painting a better picture in that question, based on text knowledge? (Assuming you've got the spare minutes.)

@nitsua60 It's good to see chat culture climbing the mountain. :D

nitsua60

@SevenSidedDie I think doppelgreener's edit gets it perfectly fine--if you've read even the first three pages of OotA, or played the first half-hour, you know exactly who OP's talking about.

SevenSidedDie

@nitsua60 Oh cool, I'm just lagging behind then. :)

nitsua60

@SevenSidedDie That's a busy room, too. Lots of chatter, no matter the day or time, it seems.

@KorvinStarmast did you say you want some MathJaxing on that sacred flame/firebolt question?

SevenSidedDie

21:42

Oh hey, I'm just going to leave this here…

16

Q: Increase tag length limit to 32 or 35

Before you go and close this as a duplicate, I'm posting this as a new feature request because a lot has changed since the last time this was requested. There are now no technical changes necessary anymore to increase the tag length in a certain range. And there is a precedent now on Literature.S...

feature-request tags

doppelgreener

@SevenSidedDie yeah! i think we're ok here for now though.

@godskook yes, it's easy enough to inspect.

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 yeah, it would look nicer I think

The Oracle

22:01

0

Q: Does "combat without dice" suffer from an XY problem?

Combat without dice/with minimal dice strikes me as, fundamentally, a desirable question. I know I'd like to see answers to it! But I wonder if it's an XY problem. OP seems to have a simply-identifiable problem: "We like playing 5e in lots of ways, but would like less rolling/time spent in combat...

discussion specific-question

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast Heading out for dinner now, may try to tackle it this evening after getting the kiddies to bed.

KorvinStarmast

thx

Shalvenay

22:15

hey there @KorvinStarmast

KorvinStarmast

22:32

@Shalvenay Hello Shal, I am about to log off. What's new in the zoo?

Sorry, what's gnu in the zoo

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast not a whole lot, catch you some other time?

KorvinStarmast

Yeah, momma has tasking. She Who Must Be obeyed!

Best wishes to you. :)

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