TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

00:20

hey there @Hippalectryon

Shalvenay

00:47

hey there @daze413

daze413

asdajghdfffa! Does anyone know why some whiteboard markers can be used on plastic and safely erased, but some can't? :(

Papayaman1000

[somewhere along the way] hey @doppelgreener

doppelgreener

Hi!

daze413

@Shalvenay ohai! :D whats up?

Papayaman1000

@daze413 what's the uh-oh

Shalvenay

00:49

@daze413 how're things going?

and hey again @Papayaman1000

Papayaman1000

SE Chat User Conspiracy Theory: Shalvenay has a keybind for "hey there @"

6

daze413

@Papayaman1000 I use this battlemat, basically just whiteboard gridded with permanent marker, then wrapped in plastic so I can write all over it with whiteboard marker with impunity

I used to have this one brand of whiteboard (i think is equivalent to your dry erase markers?) markers, and it could be erased totally fine. But it ran out of ink and I had to buy another brand. That marker, could not be erased, and was like, whuuutt..

Now my battle mat has a permanent hastily drawn room on it

Papayaman1000

Well I would suggest Goo-Gone or turpentine but I don't know how well plastic films hold up to that stuff

daze413

even alcohol doesnt work :/

doppelgreener

alcohol usually cleans off marker pretty well but also might stain/damage the plastic

oh

Shalvenay

00:54

@daze413 mechanical erase technique? remove plastic wrap and replace with fresh?

hey there @ShadowKras

daze413

but I used the same marker on glass and it erased fine

Shalvenay

@daze413 glass is like the be-all, end-all of whiteboard surfaces, haha

Papayaman1000

@daze413 Wait. It might be the sort of waxy "marker"/chalk that people use on cafe signs and stuff

very easy to mistake for normal Expos and such

daze413

@Papayaman1000 do you mean the first marker, or the second one I bought?

Papayaman1000

I know I've had way too much trouble in the past with those

(your new stuff)

but those kinds of marker use a somewhat different kind of ink

neon colors are usually a good warning sign

and I'm not referring to encounter design or a nature documentary on that note

daze413

01:06

idk. The new stuff I bought was the most common brand here, the first one was another weird brand.

Papayaman1000

I dunno.

daze413

@Shalvenay I could. But it's not a permanent solution. :/

Papayaman1000

@daze413 Buy different markers?

daze413

@Papayaman1000 Yeah, I'll do just that. But I don't know what to look for so I can be sure it's not the same kind taht won't erase

Papayaman1000

It could also be you just left the marker on too long. Apparently WD-40 is good for that (and literally everything else -- it's like liquid duct tape, in a MacGyvering sense).

daze413

01:17

that's not possible, I just drew the room ~20 minutes before erasing it

alternative work around: make the room a recurring feature in all my games haha

Papayaman1000

"...and what is that sorta half-faded room?"
"The goblin is a sorcerer. It's an illusory, ethereal, magic-blocking room. Or something."

daze413

"OK, so you're in a tavern."
"can you draw the tavern, I like to get an image in my head"
*points at the half faded room

aaanyway, cant stick around for long

ttfn :D

Papayaman1000

"And then, the Infernal Archmage creates massive gouts of flame! They linger continuously, burning sweltering hot!"
"In what shape"
"That shape."

@daze413 later

I'd love to see the players start to build strategies around that room in particular to give them maximum combative edge against foes

You could scream "metagaming!", but then any and all small-unit tactics would be thrown under scrutiny

godskook

@SevenSidedDie, what was that guy wanting, a 6-book tome on this stuff?

nitsua60

@godskook language

Papayaman1000

01:29

Tonight's meal: Bacon and Sriracha pizza
What could possibly go wrong

nitsua60

@daze413 one trick that'll sometimes work is to take the same marker, scribble so as to completely cover the lingering image, then erase that.

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 For ancient unerased marker? I believe he brought that up in relation to permanent marker.

(it does work though)

nitsua60

(whoops!)

But daze's talking about ancient dry-erase not coming off, right?

Papayaman1000

and that's why the plastic is so important

no, the new brand of marker not dry-erasing off of plastic

nitsua60

40 mins ago, by daze413

I used to have this one brand of whiteboard (i think is equivalent to your dry erase markers?) markers, and it could be erased totally fine. But it ran out of ink and I had to buy another brand. That marker, could not be erased, and was like, whuuutt..

Papayaman1000

01:34

43 mins ago, by daze413

@Papayaman1000 I use this battlemat, basically just whiteboard gridded with permanent marker, then wrapped in plastic so I can write all over it with whiteboard marker with impunity

SevenSidedDie

@godskook Context? (You're almost certainly responding to something I touched, but it may have been five or six things back in my recent history. ;)

godskook

@SevenSidedDie, the guy who wanted to know all the class/race combinations that were:
A)OP
B)UP
C)Balanced

From both the DM and PC perspective.

Papayaman1000

oh jeebus

godskook

-2

Q: What D&D 4e classes / races combinations are OP, UP, balanced, popular, and easy/good to use?

I have collected many D&D 4e books (PHB, PHB2, HoS, HotEC, FRPG, and MP) and was thinking about possible PC combinations, either for being a PC or a DM. Does anyone know which ones are over-powered, under-powered, balanced, popular, and easy/good to use, based on stats (HP, damage, healing surges...

nitsua60

The only thing that annoys me more than "read the book to me" is "read all the books to me." Oh, and when neighbors borrow my hse and don't coil it back up.

godskook

01:38

Like....assuming a reasonable 20 races and 20 classes, he's wanting 400 evaluations

Papayaman1000

Oh, hey, I got a silver badge

nitsua60

@godskook That's why I recommend 0e: it's O(n), not O(n^2) evaluations.

godskook

0e?

SevenSidedDie

@godskook It feels like a classic XY problem. We're being asked something kinda random and vague with no obvious reason for asking, and buried some n layers deep is the real problem.

nitsua60

@Papayaman1000 I think that's because I just starred your "keybind" message =)

SevenSidedDie

01:41

@godskook (O)riginal (e)dition. :)

nitsua60

@godskook original D&D.

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 Yes it is

SevenSidedDie

(Often “zero” (0) (e)dition.)

nitsua60

@Papayaman1000 Which I considered seriously mod-abusing and pinning, just so I could be sure shalvey'd see it =D

Shalvenay

hey again @nitsua60

godskook

01:41

Ah, interesting.

I'm a 3.5-original player

nitsua60

@Shalvenay (see above)

godskook

And I've never left.

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 He was in the room at the time

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 I saw it :P

nitsua60

=)

Papayaman1000

01:43

That also means you've never starred any of my other RPG General messages. If I was really petty I'd hold it against you

SevenSidedDie

@godskook I started with 1e and went up through the editions until I fell off 4e, then explored older editions and metric truckloads of non-D&D RPGs. It's been a trip.

Papayaman1000

@SevenSidedDie 5e was less of a train wreck, btw

godskook

I've heard good things about 4e, under two assumptions: You wanted more rollplay than 3.5, and you didn't want to play D&D.

Papayaman1000

@godskook I've heard exactly one: "You want to play WoW but your internet is out and you have a life." Which is, of course, paradoxical.

SevenSidedDie

@Papayaman1000 More to the point, it's more to my taste. :) (I have made my peace with what 4e was trying to do and respect how well it does it.)

nitsua60

01:46

@Papayaman1000 I'm a stingy starrer. (Ignores the starboard, only one message of which I haven't starred.)

SevenSidedDie

(5e still has WotC-ism that I feel hold it back though.)

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 I star anything I find amusing (to an incredible extent)/important

@SevenSidedDie For example?

SevenSidedDie

@Papayaman1000 I think they missed on trying to simplify opportunity attack provoking. And they kept the concept of action economy while trying to prevent it from being an action economy, and there's a lot of friction points in the rules as a result. I am (possibly unfairly) comparing it to B/X D&D though, which has the most elegant combat/action system of any edition.

godskook

I'd try 5e, but at this point, I think that I can homebrew 3.5 into a better version of 5e then 5e. That might be arrogance talking, but I think one of the failings of the D&D 3.5/PF/4e/5e line that's easily fixed is the strict linearization of class growth, with regards to multiclassing and robust characters.

Papayaman1000

@SevenSidedDie Ah, ok. Glad to have your opinion.

godskook

01:49

Otoh, from all I've read, its better balanced than 3.5 for someone who wants to just pick-up a system and DM a game.

nitsua60

It's great for people who'd been on twenty-year hiatuses.

Papayaman1000

@godskook I like it because it's not so damn convoluted, but at the same time isn't insultingly oversimplified.

SevenSidedDie

@Papayaman1000 I do like a lot of what 5e does, but I think it retains a lot of (to me) unnecessary complexity in places where I'd rather it didn't. The fundamental WotC-ism that I think underlies it all is their desire to have the rules be clear, yet Lego-like. I don't think that actually works for an RPG because there will always be corner cases. The clearest RPGs I've ever read don't try for building-block rules, but explain the rules and what they're for, so the group simply uses them as intended

@godskook Yeah, it's much better balanced that 3.5e. Still not perfectly balanced (far from it), but not as breakable.

Papayaman1000

@SevenSidedDie I think it rightly simplified in some areas, overshot in others (like Feats), and didn't even try in others still (where it would have been beyond welcome).

godskook

E6-variants do wonders for 3.5, from my experience. PCs can still access the archetypal concepts 3.5 always had, but all the broken (redacted) goes on the other side of a shiny line.

SevenSidedDie

01:54

@Papayaman1000 I think it's definitely a matter of taste what those are, too. For me, there's a lot of complexity in it to support lots of character-customisation options. For my tastes, I prefer a D&D that leaves character-development to in-game events, while keeping the actual class progression starkly simple. (Again, comparing unfairly with B/X here!) But again, that's totally taste talking. :)

godskook

B/X?

Basic D&D?

nitsua60

@SevenSidedDie I'm definitely with you on the character-progression front. The idea of "I'm going to get this character up to L15 and they'll still be a small-party adventurer" doesn't sit great with me.

SevenSidedDie

@godskook Basic D&D + Expert D&D. Specifically, Moldvay's edition, rather than Mentzer's. :)

godskook

@SevenSidedDie, how did that keep character-development on in-game events?

nitsua60

96

A: What are the big differences between the D&D editions?

OD&D - The original game had only three classes (Cleric, Fighter, Magic User). Cleric spells up to 5th level, Magic user spells up to 6th level. Every attack except for certain monster abilities did 1d6 damage if it hit. There wasn't a lot of difference between characters in terms of combat capab...

(take a look when you've a moment)

@godskook @godskook see my "historical reflection" here

SevenSidedDie

01:58

@godskook There's a stark lack of anything happening as you level up. Mostly a few more hit points, an extra +1 to hit (if you're lucky!), and for most classes that's it. Even spellcasters that get more spells per day don't get the spells — they have to go find them as treasure. As a result, a character becomes linearly more powerful from their class. To get more power, they have to go out and develop it entangled in the world, through status or treasure or wealth.

nitsua60

Followers, guilds, warbands, oh my!

Research new spells!

SevenSidedDie

@nitsua60 Exactly.

nitsua60

Carve a city out of the wilderness!

And all because of encumbrance rules =)

SevenSidedDie

Of course the degenerate form of that style of progression is playing “mother may I” with the DM, and that makes a lot of modern players leery of a game where their most significant power doesn't come directly from player-facing class abilities. But in terms of effect on the game system, it makes the game vastly simpler to play and run.

Papayaman1000

One thing I've always been looking for is a good spellcraft system. As in, create spells that can do everything plus be the kitchen sink. Anything.

I've yet to find a really good videogame or tabletop system that does that truly well.

godskook

02:02

@nitsua60, I've had similar experiences with introducing the idea of character-retirement. My longest-standing player atm is planning his 2nd character's retirement path as just a wealthy suburbanite.

Like...he's made EXPLICIT and WEALTHY plans for this.

nitsua60

@godskook cool =)

My very favorite thing is when players get in on the worldbuilding.

Whether it's "we're designing a guildhouse" or "can I make up the history of this kingdom?"

godskook

Well, he's also been around long enough to remember a bunch of movers&shakers of my plots that I've got hanging atm.

Shalvenay

@Papayaman1000 yes, very much this -- spellcraft is hard but would be awesomely cool to see

Papayaman1000

@Shalvenay hence I'm working on my homebrew system

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 yeah -- that's awesome to see although I haven't really gotten to explore it that much myself

nitsua60

02:04

@Papayaman1000 I feel like @BESW often talks about DFRPG being decent with this.

godskook

He gamed with the Psion ex-PC the PCs are supposed to track down. He gamed with the Paladin-turned-god who wants them to kill a particular Necromancer. His ex-PC risked life and limb to protect a white dragon that's now a Pearl Dragon and in close with the Gold Dragon who's running a major nation-federation

nitsua60

Alright, Saul calls. Night, all.

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 Of course Dresden Files covers spellcraft

@nitsua60 Night.

SevenSidedDie

@Papayaman1000 In my experience a good craftable magic system is either complex and hard to design, or is simple and just “say what it does, and work with the GM out of game to figure out the numbers”.

@Papayaman1000 There are a couple good (in-depth) articles online about how DFRPG spellcrafting works, if you're interested?

Papayaman1000

@SevenSidedDie I've been working with something akin to this card game, wth things covered in simple categories and basically just pick-and-choose from a spreadsheet for the basic bits and beef it up however you please

@SevenSidedDie I'm familiar with DFRPG

SevenSidedDie

02:09

@Papayaman1000 Oh, okay! … But have you read Rick Neal's amazing articles about it? :D

godskook

@Papayaman1000, @SevenSidedDie, have you guys seen this? If not, I could still use some brainstorm-power if you got some to spare:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/comments/6fxxm9/building_a_sidequest_for_a_goblin/

Don't need to post it there if you prefer to post here instead.

Papayaman1000

@godskook Ooh, interesting. And now I can stalk you on Reddit, too!

(nah)

SevenSidedDie

@godskook Actually just killing time before serving dinner (…and I'm bad a pre-planned quest ideas…)

BESW

I actually think DFRPG's a bit too fiddly with its spellcrafting; it works, but the mechanics are so picky that it kinda takes the "spontaneous" out of spontaneous spellcrafting at the table level.

Papayaman1000

@SevenSidedDie I just did, hehe. Frozen cheese pizza with a handful of bacon bits and a blast of hot sauce. Wonderful.

BESW

02:13

Dresden Files Accelerated seems to be a bit better at it, and there are other games...

SevenSidedDie

@Papayaman1000 Mmm, that sounds surprisingly tasty.

Papayaman1000

@SevenSidedDie Until I mention the hot sauce was Sriracha, for most people. For whatever reason.

trogdor

02:30

@BESW this is more or less how I found it as well

SevenSidedDie

02:57

@Papayaman1000 I wonder why it gets a negative reaction? (Sriracha is one of the the best ketchups.)

Papayaman1000

@SevenSidedDie (My god, yes.) I think it's the aftertaste?

trogdor

I am lukewarm on Sriracha personally

SevenSidedDie

@Papayaman1000 Too garlic I guess? I was practically raised on Thai food and Rooster Sauce, so that would be a feature rather than a drawback.

trogdor

I don't hate it but I don't like it thaaat much

Papayaman1000

03:14

For the record I drink the stuff so if you're looking for an unbiased opinion I am not the person to ask

trogdor

ugh

ok that is disgusting to me XD

Ben

04:30

I finished Nil's story (though I did miss one of the meetings)

Captain Bohemian

05:22

sometimes keeping frequent contact with the internet annoys me.

because you just don't want to see some people that often.

or some message that often.

Are psychiatrists and physicians are so morbid that they like to diagnose people with any unusual symtoms or thoughts?

trogdor