TRPG General Chat

KorvinStarmast

3:03 PM

@Miniman Tempest Clerics have martial weapons and cantrips. What am I missing about your comment?

ShadowKras

@MadMAxJr you mean 10 feet? or is this 3.5?

Miniman

@KorvinStarmast I didn't say it was unheard of, just rare. Particularly when you consider that it's wizard cantrips.

MadMAxJr

I think that was 3.5 shenanigans.

KorvinStarmast

@MadMAxJr Last year's RAW flail included at least one of us remarking "someone has a solution in search of a problem" but I think that comment may have died.

@Miniman Ah, I see, got it.

MadMAxJr

large creature for reach, spiked chain for reach, whirlwind attack, disarm/trip as attack replacement per attack.

ShadowKras

3:07 PM

PF's spiked chain lost reach.

KorvinStarmast

@MadMAxJr 3.5 or PF?

MadMAxJr

This was 3.5 as it was a decade ago.

NautArch

@MadMAxJr I tend to analyze on RAW but go with fun judgements at the table. But if I think someone is pushing the limits, i'll bring out the RAW hammer. I'm currently a bit frustrated at my table with overuse of the hide tactic in situations where they shouldn't be able to. But they're rogues and if they can't hide, their damage is minimal.

ShadowKras

Still can be done with whips though.

MadMAxJr

That was another fun one. ".... Can I two-hand a whip for the STR bonus?"

ShadowKras

3:08 PM

No need for enlarge then.

MadMAxJr

Occasionally I need RAW to protect me as the GM from cheesewagon players.

KorvinStarmast

I understand 5e's authorial intent about hide/surprise once combat starts, but it has raised a lot of weird questions about useful tactics that people have been using for years. To me, the only way to run it is with copious DM rulings that account for what's happening, and recalling that Disadv/Adv are always available as DM adjudicated circumstance benefits or banes. I think it encourages creativity ...

NautArch

@MadMAxJr And my answers to SE questions are always on the RAW side - although I have added Rule of Cool options to some of htem.

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, but advantage for a rogue is the same thing generally. That's what they're looking for when Hiding.

Unless they've got a very good reason as to why they think they can hide, I would prefer them not to. But that leads to player frustration. Which leads to DM frustration. Which leads to the dark side.

ShadowKras

Smoke bomb!

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch I don't advocate Easy Button, DM needs to judge what's going on at a given time. As Arneson used to observe, you can basically try anything. Whether or not you succeed is going to vary with circumstance. (My snarky comments about video game poison will be avoided)

MadMAxJr

3:12 PM

Goblin solution. "If all shadows are on fire all the time, heroes can't hide in shadows."

KorvinStarmast

Sounds like Belkar's solution ...

MadMAxJr

Goblins proceed to burn down the dungeon as they've tried to burn each others shadows.

ShadowKras

Goblins see in the dark.

KorvinStarmast

If Peter Pan's shadow had been burned, would he have had to stay with Wendy and raise a family?

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, and that's how I generally rule. Explain how you're hiding - if it isn't a reasonable way to hide,then you ain't hidden.

ask the bard to use faerie fire if you need advantage :)

MadMAxJr

3:19 PM

I hide in the space between lines of narrative.

ShadowKras

How does one pull the "hide behind" trick?

NautArch

@ShadowKras hide behind trick?

KorvinStarmast

It usually helps to be one size smaller than the creature you are hiding behind.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Isn't that really just available to certain races?

KorvinStarmast

You then roll your stealth roll, and the DM has to make a ruling. Or, DM makes a ruling without a roll.

@NauthArch: not at my table, though it is a specific mechanic for halflings in the book. You Can Try Anything. you are not guaranteed to succeed.

d20

Dice Service

3:24 PM

19

KorvinStarmast

Cool, I made my hide check. Now what?

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast gotcha. I'm closer to @MadMAxJr on how i run my tables :) I try to allow for fun, but keep it within the rules. Letting everyone do it, makes those features granted to certain classes less impactful. But I see how it's totally reasonable, too.

@KorvinStarmast duh, attack with advantage!

sneak attack!

KorvinStarmast

But I'm a Dragonborn Sorcerer 8^D

As a lightfoot halfling, you can easily hide from notice, even using other people as cover. You’re inclined to be affable and get along well with others.

NautArch

easily

hadn't really read it like that before.

but a good point!

would you give disadvantage to do it for others?

KorvinStarmast

You can attempt to hide even when you are obscured only by a creature that is at
least one size larger than you.

So for my dragon born, I might allow the attempt with Disadvantage ... since it's hard but in a given circumstance, like an elephant, Not So Hard.

I mean, a human fighter can hide behind an elephant, yes?

NautArch

3:30 PM

@KorvinStarmast ...maybe? I mean, I can see under the elephant. I'll see your legs.

but it hink given a certain situation, anything is possible. Just explain it to me during the encounter and if it's reasonable i'll giv eit.

KorvinStarmast

The question is how hard is the hiding ... regular, advantage, disadvantage? Make a ruling and play on. You Can Try Anything. You are not guaranteed to succeed.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast "You can try anything" is always followed by "but this is your action - are you sure you want to try this?"

KorvinStarmast

As for Naturally Stealthy, I'd remove the word "attempt" from the rules text and simply say "you can hide" or 'you have advantage to hide when...' the way dwarfs have advantage versus poison.

With new players, yeah, the caveat. With veterans: no. Give 'em enough rope. and try whatever you want. You may pull it off.

No bubble wrap.

NautArch

but bubble wrap is fun! pop pop pop

KorvinStarmast

I've been playing this game on and off for about 40 years, and I suppose some of our early habits are ingrained in my brain with Grognard Brand(TM) glue.

Sniffing not recommended.

NautArch

3:34 PM

SNIFF

ohno

KorvinStarmast

You can try anything, but are not guaranteed to succeed. 8^D ...

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I'm still relatively new. I played AD&D when I was in middle/high school but then took a 25 year break.

KorvinStarmast

AD&D had its strengths and its weaknesses. There are complaints about the Schick influence and the over emphasis on stuff for cons/tournaments ... though if one actually read the DMG and gygax never ending stream of prose, one got the idea that changing stuff Was Expected for all campaigns.

NautArch

I remember very little - other than I had a rogue with I think a sword of backstabbing or something. And reading the monster manual.

nitsua60

May the fourth!!! (Be with you.)

NautArch

3:49 PM

@nitsua60 and also with you!

Yuuki

@NautArch Speaking of, I should be getting 5e's Monster Manual delivered today.

NautArch

@Yuuki oooooh.

Yuuki

Along with Storm King's Thunder.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 WOoooOoOo! Time to watch Stars of the Walaxy 2 tonight.

Yuuki

But now I'm getting conflicting opinions in that I should run Lost Mines of Phandelver as a first time DM instead of SKT.

nitsua60

3:57 PM

@Yuuki First time to 5e, or first time at all?

Yuuki

@nitsua60 I've run a few one-shots in PF.

But they were really short.

And mostly just puzzle + combat.

nitsua60

Without knowing you or your group at all, I'll throw out there what I know from running LMoP and playing SKT:
LMoP does a really nice job (in my opinion) of parceling out some of 5e's fiddly bits. When you run your first encounter where lighting might be a concern, it reminds you of visibility rules, for instance. It also does a nice job of setting up the central town as a "living location" and helping you think about how the PCs actions might redound positively or negatively.
SKT starts the "main" storyline assuming characters are level 4 or so. It's got a little side-piece designed to mov…

So it could be nice to stitch together LMoP with SKT, skipping over the optional early SKT stuff. But it's not like SKT is going to be unapproachable for newer players/group.

(It might also be nice to run LMoP with an eye toward SKT. Why is Cragmaw acting that way? They've been pushed around by hill giants. Why is Spider searching for...? Trying to make a deal/overture to some cloud giants.)

MadMAxJr

PF One-shots can be entertaining. I highly recommend the free 'We Be Goblins' series adventures.

doppelgreener

@MadMAxJr are the PCs goblins in those ones?

nitsua60

@eimyr That sounds like a nice set of curves, and pretty simple to implement. I may jot that onto my index card of "interesting distributions to consider."

MadMAxJr

4:08 PM

@doppelgreener Yes. Goblins of the Licktoad tribe.

doppelgreener

@eimyr this 404'd for me

MadMAxJr

Playing as pre-gen goblins allows you to have chaotic, less than heroic antics.

doppelgreener

@MadMAxJr beautiful. and licktoad tribe. lovely. good stuff. i like it already.

MadMAxJr

They all have a goblin song on each character sheet.

doppelgreener

@MadMAxJr that's adorable

MadMAxJr

4:09 PM

They are more or less the 1980s 'Gremlins'

nitsua60

@MadMAxJr I've got it on the shelf, but haven't turned the cover. Stupid question: does one have to know PF to run it, or is it self-contained?

MadMAxJr

You need the basic rules. You could play it with a copy of that and access to d20pfsrd.

The character sheets are in the back. The first book, there's no risk of level progression, so you just toss the sheets out and get running. You need stats for a horse at one point, which d20pfsrd can show you for free.

The characters fill the four goblin hero roles. Stabby, Sneaky, Healy, Explodey.

The goblins must complete a series of group challenges, then set out on a very short adventure.... TO RETRIEVE FIREWORKS.

I informed my table that since goblins are chaotic, hungry little buggers, occasional mild harm of your fellow PCs is fine, but outright slaughter is not.

So this allowed things like 'Well I need to throw a bomb, but an ally is in the way. But I'm pretty sure he'll survive this.'

nitsua60

@MadMAxJr So... pretend (just for posterity) that I've neither played nor witnessed PF. When you say "basic rules," is that the PHB? A subsection of the SRD? Something else?

MadMAxJr

@nitsua60 Basic d20 mechanics. How do I do a skill check? How does combat work? Those are the big two parts you need to have figured out to run it.

nitsua60

THAC0?

MadMAxJr

4:15 PM

Which, d20pfsrd or the official SRD can tell you about those.

nitsua60

=D

MadMAxJr

They're pretty basic adventures, not too hard to run. The only real map you need is provided on the inside cover.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener re epic-tier in 5e, I probably wouldn't apply it, since that's not quite a defined thing in 5e, but I wouldn't remove it either, since it's a well-understood concept that doesn't clash with what's going on in 5e....

doppelgreener

@MadMAxJr Your table would enjoy Great Ork Gods.

Yuuki

@MadMAxJr And because they're goblins, I feel like players are more like to take physically disfiguring though advantageous feats and traits if they want to make their own goblin.

eimyr

4:24 PM

@doppelgreener humanae.tumblr.com

also, as a mod, can you replace the link in the starboard with this one?

@nitsua60 it's nice and it makes a cool mechanic that is super-easy to remember

"I suck at X. I roll 5d10 and get the lowest. but I am awesome at Y so I roll the same and get highest"

MadMAxJr

@Yuuki The module even gives you a few of the disfiguring feats built in. It also recommends the 'Goblins of Golarion' splat book if you want to make your own with more oddity feats.

I believe there's one goblin feat that lets you try to beat an attack roll against you with your own attack roll. Instead of taking damage you're instead thrown a distance based on how much damage you would have taken.

At least that's what one of my players was describing...

Yuuki

I do remember there was a trait or something that gave you +1 to AC because you're so flabby and whatnot.

MadMAxJr

There's another one that gives you a tradeoff for the unusual flat oval head size.

doppelgreener

@eimyr i've cancelled the stars on the old message

Yuuki

We Be Goblins makes me want to run a general Evil campaign but more like henchmen stupid Evil rather than the Legion of Doom that most players seem to want from an Evil campaign.

Wacky hijinks over plans to conquer the world.

MadMAxJr

4:40 PM

I believe they're mostly chaotic neutral in We Be Goblins. They're michevious, chaotic, rude, and hurtful, but they aren't compelled in any way to be evil. They just want food. then a snack. Then second snack. Then something that explodes. Then some fire. Then to set Jeb's house on fire, because that's funny.

LegendaryDude

5:11 PM

@MadMAxJr and to kill all horses because gobbos hateses horsies

Karelzarath

And also dogs.

Yuuki

@Karelzarath theyre good dogs, gobb

MadMAxJr

Any goblin will tell you, wolves are not dogs. Goblin dogs are also not dogs

Karelzarath

Goblins chew and goblins bite,
Goblins cut and goblins fight.
Stab the dog and cut the horse,
Goblins eat and take by force!
Goblins race and goblins jump.
Goblins slash and goblins bump.
Burn the skin and mash the head,
Goblins here and you be dead!
Chase the baby, catch the pup.
Bonk the head to shut it up.
Bones be cracked, flesh be stewed,
We be goblins! You be food!

The best part about playing a goblin is the singing.

ShadowKras

We Be Goblins are actually a set of free adventures We Be Goblins, We Be Goblins Too, We Be Goblins Free, and finally, We B4 Goblins.

7

Karelzarath

5:19 PM

Highly recommend the series. They seem to go over really well with younger players, as well.

SPavel

2Fast2Goblins

NautArch

5:43 PM

@SevenSidedDie for the passive/active perception question. DOes the earlier question become the original? The answer in it nets the same, but doesn't have the Developer support behind it. I don't think it really matters, but I"m guessing earliest becomes original (no matter the quality of the answer) and the latter dupes to thta one?

I believe someone had sent WaxEagle isn't ative anymore so can't update their answer?

ShadowKras

So, we have like...over 10 answers saying how passive perception works?

NautArch

@ShadowKras sortakinda

Yuuki

6:01 PM

Monster Manual get, although now I'm severely tempted to bring it to work and read it at my desk,

NautArch

@Yuuki dooo ittttt

Yuuki

But I like having a job!

NautArch

your job is okay with you spending lots of time on SE, though :) why not some light MM reading, too?

Yuuki

I can pass SE off as talking with other programmers though.

ShadowKras

Which isnt a lie.

diego

6:06 PM

@Yuuki Obviously what you need to do then is read this to make it looks like you are reading programming related things (just hope nobody looks too closely at your screen) : )

The Oracle

2

Q: Can I just say thank you to those of RPG SE?

This may not stay open for long; but I am unsure how to give thanks where I feel thanks is due. My question is, since I have been here for 2+ years now and several questions and answers, can I give thanks to those few who stand out and the many others who participate in this website who do not s...

SevenSidedDie

Transport Canada just released a recall on Imperial AT-AT Walker drivetrains due to poor performance in cold-weather conditions.

NautArch

hahahaha

THat is amazing

O Canada? GO CANADA!

SevenSidedDie

Someone at TC has a sense of humour and noticed it's May 4th. :D

ShadowKras

6:32 PM

nice

KorvinStarmast

@SevenSidedDie How is May 4 significant?

diego

@KorvinStarmast May the Fourth be with you

SevenSidedDie

@KorvinStarmast It's a Star Wars–related play on words: “May the 4th be with you”.

KorvinStarmast

And also with you.

Hmm, 4 May is my dad's birthday, so I guess I never quite got on board with that pun. PS: transport Canada's aircraft accident reports are some of the best in that business.

Yuuki

@KorvinStarmast They changed it, it's "and with your spirit" now.

NautArch

6:37 PM

@Yuuki change is bad, mmmk?

Yuuki

@NautArch Only a Sith deals in absolutes?

NautArch

They 'changed' a lot...i do not accept those changes.

HARMY FTW

SevenSidedDie

@NautArch Normally the earlier becomes the master question, though that's not a rule, just how it generally goes. (The principle is that the best question be the master, which can sometimes be the newer one.) I've switched the master for the new question to that older one, since it's a nice, cleanly-worded version.

NautArch

@SevenSidedDie I'm good with that - although I do wish WaxEagle was around to add the Crawford interview to his answer. Mostly because I don't think it's the right answer without Crawford saying such in the interview. ALthough waxeagles upvotes say otherwise :)

Yuuki

@NautArch I mean, you could always add the link yourself. That's what the edit button is for.

NautArch

6:49 PM

@Yuuki I dunno. Editing someone else's answer with that level of information seems...wrong?

Yuuki

I personally wouldn't consider that "drastically changing the intent of the answer".

NautArch

@SevenSidedDie what's your take?

Yuuki

Eh, I feel like every SE site has this problem with having such a close relationship between the poster and the post.

I wouldn't mind it if other people edited my answers on Arqade because some recent patch invalidated my answers.

Karelzarath

What do you do in that instance? Just add a header that says "Invalid as of Version 1.2.3"?

Yuuki

Or provided a more official link.

@Karelzarath Pretty much.

SevenSidedDie

6:51 PM

@NautArch Generally edits that don't change the author's answer are okay, but we shy from ones that reverse answers' meaning. In the long run, a new answer will get the votes to surpass an older answer that's become out of date, so we tend to do it that way and trust in our patience. :)

Yuuki

@SevenSidedDie Eh, I'm not so sure about the second statement.

NautArch

@SevenSidedDie Sounds gouda. I'll wait a bit and then make the change to WaxEagles answer and flag that duplicate.

Yuuki

I haven't looked over some of my old league-of-legends answers in awhile but I'm pretty sure that a good number of them are out-of-date but still have far more upvotes than the other answers some that might be more up-to-date.

SevenSidedDie

This was talked about a bit on Meta in the context of the DMG coming out and invalidating a bunch of older “well, until we see the DMG, the answer seems to be…” type answers: rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5339/…

@Yuuki Arqade moves in different rhythms than RPG too, though.

Karelzarath

Movies.SE moves without rhythm to not attract the worm

godskook

6:55 PM

I'm honestly not a big fan of questions that don't retire over time. Its nice that they're more curated and long-lasting than other places, but it feels shitty to be directed to long-dead answers for a question that really does require a fresh take.

Yuuki

But the underlying mechanics of the system are the same. The reason why out-of-date answers stay above newer answers is three-fold: 1) Users aren't likely to view older questions especially if the question already has an accepted answer. 2) Askers rarely go back to older questions to accept more up-to-date answers. 3) If you have upvoted an answer, I don't think you can revoke your upvote (or even downvote) just because time has passed and the answer is now out-of-date.

You have to wait for the answerer to edit their answer.

Which they might not do (see me and constantly forgetting to go back over my older league-of-legends answers).

SevenSidedDie

@godskook There are no dead questions.

Yuuki

@SevenSidedDie Only Zuul?

SevenSidedDie

@Yuuki These are interesting points, but since chat << meta when it comes to setting policy, it isn't going to move anything talking about it in chat without turning it into a meta proposal.

godskook

@SevenSidedDie, then one of us is delusional.

Yuuki

7:02 PM

I don't know if there's anything to propose. By my understanding of the rules, anyone should be free to add a link to that podcast to WaxEagle's answer as it is. It's not like anyone's trying to change any rules.

SevenSidedDie

@Yuuki Well you're proposing stuff up there about handling duplicates and stuff differently. That's a conversation to have on meta, especially since meta has already had these conversations. If something needs to change in that consensus, it should be re-broached on meta.

NautArch

@Yuuki going back to the crawford conversation earlier. THe more I read his rulings, the less I'm agreeing with many of them.

MadMAxJr

@SevenSidedDie So did Hoth outsource transportation management to Canada as a cost reduction measure?

Or is Hoth actually a lesser known province of Canada?

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki I am aware of the liturgy change in 2011, I used to teach that stuff. The joke predates the RCC liturgy change by about 40 years. :-P I will also point out that it is only changed formally Within The Liturgy; nobody can stop me from saying "and also with you" outside of a liturgical context. I dare the (censored) clergy to try.

Yuuki

@KorvinStarmast Watch out, the Pope has 9th-level spell slots.

MadMAxJr

7:12 PM

I'm positive the pope hat is a +5 hat, but I have no idea what the bonus applies to.

Also, based on my play of Assassins Creed, the Pope has several items enhancing his survivability against assassination.

diego

@MadMAxJr I would guess law

NautArch

really not sure what to do with this question: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/99321/…

SevenSidedDie

@MadMAxJr Most of Canada is actually on Hoth as an Overseas Territory. That's how we managed to stay 2nd-largest nation even after those back-stabbing cartographers stopped using Mercator.

KorvinStarmast

JP II had nice resistance to Bulgarian Assassin's bullets, to be sure

NautArch

J.A. Streich found a great piece of support and I think our answers work nicely together - but i feel one of us should subsume the other.

@KorvinStarmast New pope refuses to cast Shield.

KorvinStarmast

7:15 PM

@NautArch Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. 8^D

@NautArch The New Pope, while he's got his heart in the right place mostly, is giving the sedevacantists massive grist for their mill.

MadMAxJr

@NautArch What about it? There's an answer that cites a ruling and there's one that cites the book. Both have validity.

NautArch

@MadMAxJr Mostly because I think one of us should combine the answer to have one that answers it entirety. I'm fine letting Streich take my piece, but I don't know if he'd be okay with me doing the same to him. I know improving answers is okay, but I'm still learning here and taking the legwork someone did and adding it to mine doesn't feel right.

MadMAxJr

Both are answered from separate sources. It could be argued they have merit separately or merged.

NautArch

Maybe I should put it another way: is it wrong to take someone else's answer and put in your own

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch I'll offer my guiding principle in mod election platform Don't Rush as the best way ahead.

Let it gestate a bit.

MadMAxJr

7:20 PM

Adjust the question oven to low heat, let it simmer for a bit.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Hmm, to me the best thing to do there is summarize the key point, and link to that answer. Molot and I did that in "use a rolling tray" answer regarding people messing with dice

MadMAxJr

This gets a nice reduction going, then you can apply the answer sauce to the question noodles.

NautArch

er...how do i link to answer?

diego

@NautArch Click the 'share' link at the bottom of the answer

KorvinStarmast

Click on "share" and then copy that link.

NautArch

7:24 PM

d'oh @diego @KorvinStarmast that was pretty obvious :)

KorvinStarmast

We all had to learn that eventually on our first SE site ... all is well.

SevenSidedDie

@NautArch In retrospect, yeah! But when you're used to being able to just go to the browser bar to get a link, you don't necessarily look for a second way to do the same thing. The share button is still not the first thing I think of when trying to get a link to something.

NautArch

@SevenSidedDie Yeah, but i'm pretty good with workarounds most of the time - didn't think of that one.

updated my answer

but voted for Streich's :)

KorvinStarmast

**Does the warlock’s Awakened Mind feature allow two-way telepathic communication?** (SA) Version 1.14 @2016 Wizards
*The feature is intended to provide one-way communication. The warlock can use the feature to speak telepathically to a creature, but the feature doesn’t give that creature the ability to telepathically reply. In contrast, the telepathy ability that some monsters have (MM, 9) does make two-way communication possible*

@NautArch That's from sage advice, if that's helpful.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Thanks! I'll update that. I had thought it was one-way. but then the SE questions I related in the comments said otherwise.

KorvinStarmast

7:35 PM

Sage Advice Compendium has its moments.

PhiNotPi

Totally different topic, but here's a question: My sister really wants to play a game of D&D, is there something that I can do given that there's only the 2 of us?

Adam

@PhiNotPi Play one on one. It's doable

Could be some nice sibling bonding experience

MadMAxJr

I'm going to get rich off selling ioun stones of Caller ID.

ShadowKras

@PhiNotPi why not invite some friends?

Yuuki

@Adam If you're good at balancing the combat (or even just playing 3 NPCs with her), it's arguably better.

It feels like it'd be a lot easier to control narrative flow in a one-on-one game.

NautArch

7:40 PM

Seeing this issue regarding the SA and the Awakened Mind question - I'll probably go and update WaxEagles answer on Passive perception.

Adam

Yeah, but it can also be a challenge to set up encounters. I would recommend you both play 2 chars instead of you DMing 3 NPCs, just to even out the amount you both get to play. Asking if friends want to play too is also a good option

You could also call up local comic and games shops to see if they have any public games or events that you could join. And in the very worst case, you can check out an online forum/online table-top, like roll 20, to try and get people together, but playing over the internet with strangers can be...intimidating. Though it's also intimidating to play with strangers in real life at a card shop somewhere.

PhiNotPi

@ShadowKras I don't think anyone else is available right now, but I'll look into it.

ShadowKras

@PhiNotPi from my experience, you can totally do it, just dont focus on combat unless her character is clearly combat-focused. Even so, you might have to be careful with their challenge rating.

Yuuki

@Adam I dunno, I would treat it like most recent party-based RPGs with social elements like Mass Effect or Dragon Age. Give the party NPCs their own personalities but have character development be dependent on the sister's actions.

NautArch

@PhiNotPi combat/rp is a good question. Do you know what she's more interested in doing?

Adam

7:51 PM

I suppose I was thinking of it as 3 DMPCs and the 1 PC, rather than true NPCs

SevenSidedDie

@PhiNotPi We have a bunch of questions in our one-on-one tag that might help. In particular, take a look at

30

Q: How do you DM differently when it's for only one person?

I've just finished running my first session with only one player, and it felt pretty different from running a session for a group. Could someone with more experience in this talk about what one should do differently in that situation? I'm not referring to mechanics like encounter-building, but ...

gm-techniques one-on-one

33

Q: Is there a good way to have a party of adventurers with only one player?

My sister expressed interest in playing D&D, and I'm interested in DMing, so I decided to try and run The Caves of Chaos from the D&D Next playtest packet. Reading through the materials, I became worried that my sister's elf rogue wouldn't last very long by herself. None of her friends are intere...

dnd-5e one-on-one

17

Q: Playing Dnd 5e with two players

My girlfriend and I want to get into roleplaying games, we've both been interested in trying out Dungeons and Dragons. She has never played a pen and paper RPG before, I've played the Swedish Drakar och Demoner (DoD) once in school. We don't have a group yet, so we thought we'd start out with jus...

dnd-5e gm-techniques one-on-one

Yuuki

I have two friends that I really only watch movies every few weeks with. I should ask if they're interested in D&D.

PhiNotPi

Thanks for your suggestions, I'm gonna ask her what she thinks.

NautArch

8:34 PM

I love it when the DM that ruled on a User's question shows up: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/99310/…

:D

ShadowKras

Upvoted for being the correct answer, since "ask your gm" is raw for 5ed and the GM did answer.

NautArch

@ShadowKras Personally, I don't count any GM ruling as RAW. RAW allows for the GM to do what they want, but it doesn't make it RAW. (enters RAW argument room)

mostly because if you go there, then there are no rules. Just GM fiat.

Adam

@NautArch With the ultimate rule being "GMs can change all of the rules" Wouldn't that make the rules GM fiat anyway?

NautArch

@Adam Yes, then there is no need for stack exchange. Or asking questions.

what's the rep requirement for chat?

Adam

20 I think

NautArch

8:46 PM

invited the OP

Adam

@NautArch Confirmed. We can all go home now ladies and gentlemen. You may present your brains at the door.

ShadowKras

@NautArch it was a joke.

NautArch

@ShadowKras sorry :( My literal interpretations of most things often gets me.

ShadowKras

np

CM_Dayton

@Adam GM fiat... what if the GM prefers Maseratis to Fiats?

NautArch

8:49 PM

@CM_Dayton I would hope they would.

ACuriousMind

@NautArch You should've called that the message-as-written interpretation ;)

ShadowKras

@CM_Dayton then he won't be able to cast Light.

Zachiel

@NautArch Hey I preferi FIATs. At least they are affordable.

@ShadowKras Fiat lux XD Ba-dum tschhh

NautArch

@Zachiel Preference and Affordable are different things :D

ACuriousMind

"We decide everything by GM fiat" - "So the GM just tells you?" - "No, we take a drive in the GM's car and talk it out"

6

NautArch

8:51 PM

@Adam leaving shortly...where should I put my brain?

hey wait a second!

Zachiel

According to rule 0, deciding to follow RAW is GM fiat.

Yuuki

@ACuriousMind If your GM drives a Fiat, you need to find a new campaign.

Adam

@Zachiel GM Maserati, thank you ;P

Zachiel

@Yuuki I driveone, and I'm a DM

ACuriousMind

@Yuuki I'm...actually pretty sure one of my DMs drives a Fiat

And he's one of the good ones

Yuuki

8:53 PM

@Zachiel Well, that's different you're a DM. If GM is driving a Fiat, I'd be a bit worried about their product quality.

Zachiel

@Yuuki As in General Motors?

ShadowKras

oh, the puns

nitsua60

Okay, I'm catching up on that day's chatter and it seems a reminder to Be Nice is needed, sadly. Please remember that belittling language and vulgarity aren't part of Stack Exchange. That includes chat, and that includes language directed at people in the room, not in the room, groups, &c.

Adam

@nitsua60 Does that include my requests for brains and/or suggestions that we donate our brains to what may, or may not, be described as a giant squid brain in a jar?

ACuriousMind

You also have to be nice to giant squid brains, but I guess asking us to donate our brains to them is rather nice...for them.

Karelzarath

9:02 PM

Giant squid brains are heckin' dumb.

nitsua60

@NautArch I'll admit to being old enough that I find it strange anyone asks 50% of the questions we see. "Why are you asking anyone other than the people at your table" is my first-blush response to... well, lots of questions.

@Adam I think that probably needs its own meta.SE question =)

Karelzarath

@nitsua60 "I have this player who's... <long explanation>" "Have you talked to them?" "Well, no, but..."

ACuriousMind

@nitsua60 I'm not very old and I have the same reaction

Adam

@nitsua60 Agreed, and I've only been playing for, like, a year.

NautArch

@nitsua60 Well, I come here to gather my resources so that I can intelligently ask the question at the table.

ACuriousMind

9:07 PM

I think it's a cultural/group dynamical difference - whether you feel comfortable just talking with your group or not. I can't fathom playing with people I don't feel comfortable just talking about stuff with, but apparently others feel differently

nitsua60

@NautArch Then you're definitely part of the 50% I'm not flabbergasted by =)

NautArch

@nitsua60 well, i may not be in because of THAT

Karelzarath

@nitsua60 Challenge accepted.

"Dear RPG.SE, for reasons I will never explain and refuse to even acknowledge, I will not talk to my group about this, but I have a problem..."

Yuuki

@Karelzarath Ew, people.

Apr 18 at 16:23, by Yuuki

Ew, communication. That's what I play D&D to get away from.

Karelzarath

@Yuuki I know, right?!

I hate talking to people. That's why I'm here!

NautArch

9:13 PM

howdy @KorvinStarmast @MatthewDaumen

@KorvinStarmast I understand rulings over rules - which is what my first comment to the DM said.

ACuriousMind

@Karelzarath Are you implying we're all AIs, and that AIs are not people?

NautArch

But I also think the rules are pretty clear that Channel Divinity doesn't break Sanctuary (unless it's the War cleric one that rqeuires an attack roll)

Karelzarath

@ACuriousMind I make no implications as to the actuality of your existence, merely that you do not qualify for personhood.

Matthew Daumen

I think it's always good to get outside perspective that is not colored by the specific game you're in and its personalities. I honestly felt like last night when the ruling happened re: sanctuary, it would be a 50/50 shot either way (and I was fine with it).

ACuriousMind

@Karelzarath That...sounds even worse, tbh

Zachiel

9:16 PM

@Yuuki I'm tempted to star that again.

NautArch

@MatthewDaumen and THAT is a great perspective. THe issue came up, your DM made a call (that had logic to it) and then you wanted to double check it.

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 If that's about my opinion on the pope, I stand by it, but will accept your reminder on the be nice thing as a global guideline.

Matthew Daumen

I thought the text was a bit weird especially around "affects" in that you could break sanctuary by healing an enemy.

NautArch

Rolling with it, was the right thing to do. Now you can look at the decision and decide if it's worth keeping on the table or if you want to treat it differently in the future.

Adam

I think JC sent out a tweet once lamenting how poorly they worded Sanctuary. Can't find it anymore. The intent was that doing anything harmful to another creature would end the spell I think.

Matthew Daumen

9:17 PM

Yeah. I've been playing a long time and I'm something of a rules lawyer at the table since a lot of our group are new to it. I try not to be overbearing.

Adam

What exactly "harmful" means is up to the DM though

KorvinStarmast

@MatthewDaumen Yeah, if we dig too deep into the pile of pepper, we also find a bit of fly poop. That's rules text for you. 8^D

NautArch

@MatthewDaumen ah - but the "effects" is tied to "makes an attack or casts a spell" and Channel Divinity is neither - and I posit that's intended. As shown by the Sage Advice link Seamus put in

Matthew Daumen

Oh good point. That did not come up in my searches. I was genuinely surprised nobody had found this loophole before.

NautArch

@Adam "harmful" isn't the key in the spell description. It's "makes an attack or casts a spell" Harmful is the associated piece of those activities - not the activity itself.

KorvinStarmast

9:19 PM

@NautArch Your interpretation is rational, and so is the ruling the DM made. Not Mutually Exclusive since there is ambiguity in the text. (If you really want to have some fun with interpretation, let's open our Bibles and talk about interpreting the text ... at Christianity.SE we have had to come up with good guidelines to prevent flame wars from erupting over that).

Matthew Daumen

@KorvinStarmast Yikes! Too many real wars to think arguments could be avoided.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Personally, I'm not seeing ambiguity. Especially with the Crawford ruling. The text is clear "makes an attack or casts a spell..." Channel Divinity is neither.

BUT

Adam

@NautArch exactly, that was what JC was lamenting. Though it appears he stands by the RAW interpretation

NautArch

I do agree that it seems like it should, and that ruling is reasonable. But it does open the door to potential other issues.

Matthew Daumen

Also as background, our party most definitely crushes much of what the DM puts in our path, so I figured I would not press it too hard.

KorvinStarmast

9:21 PM

@NautArch We each have our filters through which we see the world, and the rules text. That's why it's fun to discuss here. Get outside of our own little boxes.

NautArch

@Adam I still don't think it's really an issue (but would love to see that tweet.) Sanctuary is ONLY on the cleric domain. If they had wanted to bar Channel Divinity from it, they could easily have written that. Or made the Channel Divinities ways to cast spells without a slot.

KorvinStarmast

Matt, great to have you, and great to have your DM chime in.

WELCOME!

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I WILL NOT LEAVE MY BOX!

Karelzarath

@KorvinStarmast But I finally got mine just the way I liiiiike it! </whine>

NautArch

@Karelzarath hahaha

Yuuki

9:22 PM

> "I make a move action."
> "Okay, you lose Sanctuary."
> "... why?"
> "You're invading the goblin's personal space. That's harmful."

NautArch

:D

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki Rocks roll die, everyone falls

NautArch

@Yuuki That's the slippery slope I fear.

And I'm generally more okay with rulings that help the character have fun, not limit their actions.

this feels like the latter.

Karelzarath

@NautArch I will join you in box-contained solitude! Not actually, but in spirit. Apart, but together.

Adam

@NautArch If you look at the world with blinders maybe. But anybody who does that is just a jerk. And an application of common sense makes that clear. Not saying that you are a jerk or not using common sense. More that I don't think people can really get away with that in practice

KorvinStarmast

9:23 PM

I was discussing with Phil how I see Turn Undead as defensive, and he was coming back with a well reasoned PoV on a different view.

Yuuki

> "I drink a health potion."
> "You lose Sanctuary."
> "WHY?!"
> "You regaining health means you can fight better, which is harmful to the goblin."

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki You need to go and work for a political campaign somewhere ... 8^P

Adam

"You breathe and lose sanctuary because your being alive is harmful to the goblin!"

Yuuki

> "I kill myself because this DM fiat is annoying me."
> "You lose Sanctuary because the sight of your violent suicide has harmed the goblin's mental fortitude."

Karelzarath

"Your view of the goblin as a foe is harmful to his self-actualization and you lose sanctuary."

KorvinStarmast

9:24 PM

@Adam Falls rock and roll, die, and everyone dances on the ceiling.

(Sorry, had to slide in a Lionel Richie reference)

Karelzarath

@KorvinStarmast Oh, what a feeling

KorvinStarmast

I am glad we could share this 70's 80's nostalgia together before the goblins sue us for having the wrong musical taste, which harms his sanctuary.

And he doesn't even have class levels since he could not afford Volo's guide because we stole all of the goblin gold on the last adventure ...

NautArch

It seems like sanctuary worded as any action harmful would have done better. Just that given that design of channel divinity it seems it was intended to avoid that.

KorvinStarmast

Except is was all iron pyrite aka fools gold.

I like the idea of being able to turn undead (not the destroy one) as a non offensive action. It's a protection deal ... or can be seen as such.

NautArch

Which is another way of looking at it not ending sanctuary

KorvinStarmast

9:28 PM

And think about this: if you turn the undead, they are getting farther from you, their enemy, making you less likely to kill them. Turn Undead is Good For Them! It is Weal, not Woe! 8^D

Adam

@KorvinStarmast I know they are turned and not frightened, but I always imagined the undead running away in whatever terror their foul mockery of life can muster

Karelzarath

Given the "affects an enemy" bit, does a missed attack not drop sanctuary since it didn't affect them?

KorvinStarmast

And if you set up four clerics on a baseball field, one at each base, Undead at the pitcher's mound, they can keep turning undead and create a great big circular dance thing, like a reel. Hopefully with Lionel Richie singing in the background.

NautArch

@Karelzarath no, it's the attack that matters, not the harmful

Adam

@Karelzarath I think it's ((makes an attack) or (casts a spell that affects an enemy))

NautArch

9:30 PM

@KorvinStarmast Saving the undead from themselves

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Yeah! And throwing them an impromptu party at the same time!

What could possibly go wrong?

Karelzarath

@Adam Due to the delightful vagaries of language, it could just as easily be "(makes an attack or casts a spell) which affects..."

ShadowKras

We are discussing this topic over and over again, then comes a tweet saying that the rule is completely different and all is lost.

KorvinStarmast

@ShadowKras Which tweet?

Adam

@Karelzarath It very much could be.

Karelzarath

9:32 PM

@NautArch Stifling their right to self-expression, you mean! That's nothing less than The Man keeping them down!

NautArch

@ShadowKras right now the tweet supports it

KorvinStarmast

Outta here, ya'll be excellent to each other.

ShadowKras

oh i know, for now.

Karelzarath

@KorvinStarmast You're not my supervisor!

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast wyld stallions

Adam

9:36 PM

@ShadowKras remember when JC changed his stance on Leomund's Tiny Hut? That was fun

Karelzarath

This is why there's a [rules-as-written] tag.

hides

ShadowKras

@Adam i havent played 5ed in about 8 months now. But i remember the pain that was shuffling through tweets and blog posts.

or when a tweet outright changed what was written without any sort of errata published.

Yuuki

@KorvinStarmast I dunno, wouldn't Michael Jackson be singing for this scenario?

NautArch

@Adam the original floor less tiny hut made no sense to me

Karelzarath

@Yuuki If it's a reel, I'd imagine some sort of Irish music, like Gaelic Storm or the like.

Yuuki

9:45 PM

@Karelzarath I'm just imaging the zombie shuffling back and forth as it gets Turned with MJ singing Thriller in the background.

Zachiel

@Karelzarath high 5!

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