TRPG General Chat

BESW

02:09

Suddenly I want to play a character in a Secrets of Cats game instead of run the game:

She snuck into houses to whisper "You are good" to unloved dogs. Her peers shunned her, saying no real cat would do that. "But we should."

Tweeted by MicroSFF on April 29, 2017 at 11:43 PM

nitsua60

02:35

Happy Int'l Tabletop Day!

Kerooker

Hi guys

BESW

[wave]

nitsua60

Hi @Kerooker

How's it going?

BESW

Also hi @PhiNotPi.

PhiNotPi

Allo

Kerooker

02:45

Things are great

I didn't know this kind of chat existed in SO until today lol

PhiNotPi

Also looking at the starboard, I didn't know 200WordRPG was a thing, seems pretty cool.

trogdor

it seems like a pretty cool thing, yeah

BESW

Proper link: the annual 200 Word RPG Challenge.

PhiNotPi

One of my friends has created an RPG before, his rulebook is like close to 100 pages long.

Shalvenay

hey there @Kerooker @PhiNotPi @nitsua60

BESW

03:10

@PhiNotPi Cool; that's a very nice upper limit page count for the sorts of games my group often plays.

nitsua60

03:41

@Kerooker This particular room tends to be pretty chatty during the work-week, quieter on weekends.

@Shalvenay heya--back from con? Was it a one-day thing, or more tomorrow?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 am back from con, will be more tomorrow

got to take an indie system called Against the Darkness for a spin, and also poked Numenera rather briefly since the local demo-guy for Monte Cook Games was there today

Chemus

@nitsua60 He's lying. This is a par-tay! ;)

Shalvenay

also, snagged a schedule slot for tomorrow for 5e DMing

trogdor

@nitsua60 noooo, that can't be it, that never happens here XD :P

nitsua60

@Shalvenay In three sentences, what was Against the Darkness like?

Chemus

03:46

@nitsua60 Shoop. :D

nitsua60

@trogdor charts are incapable of lying. One of these statements is true.

Shalvenay

It's a modern-set heroic/supernatural game (i.e. unlike a Mythos setting, the players are expected to win on the whole). The conceit is "demons are real, and the Catholic Church is tasked with kicking their rumpy tails"

hey there @LearnHowToBeTransparent

trogdor

@nitsua60 it's the second one, because it says nothing and therefore contains perfect truth

nitsua60

@trogdor mu

@Shalvenay running a module, or your own creation?

Shalvenay

The base resolution mechanic is quite simple (dice + attribute + skill, with possible opposed rolls, and a distinction between mundane skills and miraculous ones) -- each attribute has a die size set with it (d8/d6/d6/d4 as their are four attributes).

trogdor

03:49

@nitsua60 huh?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 it was a module (I was a player -- the publisher had a booth up there and had a demo-DM out running it)

nitsua60

Mu (negative)

The Japanese and Korean term mu (Japanese: 無; Korean: 무) or Chinese wú (traditional Chinese: 無; simplified Chinese: 无) meaning "not have; without" is a key word in Buddhism, especially Zen traditions. == The word == The Chinese word wú 無 "not; nothing" was borrowed by East Asian languages, particularly the Sino-Xenic "CJKV" languages of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese. === Pronunciations === The Standard Chinese pronunciation wú historically derives from (c. 7th century CE) Middle Chinese mju, (c. 3rd century CE) Late Han Chinese muɑ, and reconstructed (c. 6th century BCE) Old Chinese ...

trogdor

@nitsua60 ah, how zen of you

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Sorry--I meant your 5e slot tomorrow. Are you running something published or your own creation?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 oh, my own creation :) (it's the dungeon that I've been playtesting here)

nitsua60

03:52

Ah. Good luck.

Shalvenay

(already got at least one player signed up, too -- we'll see if more come :)

Yuuki

Ooo, what time?

Shalvenay

@Yuuki it's a 1PM/4h slot @ the con

@Yuuki (if you are not attending the con, though, I should be available-ish to run it that night for you)

Yuuki

Oh, it's a physical event? :(

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 (basically all the rest of the D&D @ the con is published modules, mostly AL material)

@Yuuki yeah, it's a physical event. as I said though, I should be around here tomorrow night and can run it then for you if you'll be around :)

Chemus

04:35

It's quiet... a little bit too quiet.

BESW

04:59

Fellow GMs, this is a really good thread. Don't do this. https://twitter.com/d20Blonde/status/858490728804225029

Tweeted by clarkvalentine on April 30, 2017 at 1:25 AM

godskook

05:10

I'm......not really sure she has any concept of why DMs actually use that phrase in practice.

BESW

I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt that the managing editor for Illuminerdy whose handle includes "d20" is speaking from experience, but why doesn't have anything to do with her point anyway.

I can say from my experience that I've been the GM she's describing, with all the best intention in the world, and it's driven people from my table.

Erik

06:13

A flat "Are you sure?" is not a very good idea, but new players DO need to occasionally need to hear what will happen if they do "that action" before it resolves and be given the option to rethink.

Because they might not be familiar with tropes, rules, or just simply the fact that they CAN do that thing and the game won't stop them, even if it's instantly fatal or campaign derailing.

BESW

Yeah. The thread talks about more constructive, effective strategies for addressing the motives and goals which prompt that behaviour.

Erik

I don't know, I'm not seeing much of that. I don't believe that 'The Best Action is the one the player invents for their character." when it comes to actions that will get them killed because they don't understand the consequences of their choice due to lack of experience with the game.

2

BESW

It's definitely gonna very depending on playstyle, group dynamics, game choice, etc.

But, for example, I've had a lot of success with this one:

@d20Blonde @GeekyLyndsay ime a better question is "what does that look like"

Tweeted by teeterpyg on April 30, 2017 at 1:39 AM in reply to d20Blonde

Erik

That works, some of the time.

BESW

It invites the same reflection on the interaction of declaration with narrative, with the added bonus of encouraging evocative detail, and without positioning the GM in a position of superior judgement.

Erik

06:27

And without showing them that they are misjudging some hidden variables that would heavily influence their choice.

It won't help a low level character who just stated "I stab the vampire lord in the face", because they can explain very well what that looks like; they just don't know it's too powerful an enemy to attack like that.

BESW

If you think they're missing some information, don't mess around with a coy leading hints. It's not a Socratic exploration of the truth.

Just tell 'em what about the scenario makes you puzzled by their action, and ask them to explain why they're doing it.

Erik

Right, that's why I said above "tell them what will happen, then let them rethink"

BESW

There's no one-size-fits-all catchphrase for every situation--which is one of the things that thread's talking about with "are you sure."

Erik

"If you stab it, it will simply kill you. It's immensely powerful and you won't be able to kill it. Are you sure this is what you want to do?"

BESW

(And personally, that kind of mechanical shutdown is one reason I stopped playing 4e even though I loved what 4e was doing.)

I had a new player with amazing, dramatic, interesting ideas which would've made sense with the narrative and created excellent story--but would've trashed 4e's mechanical balance, so I spent the whole night telling her "no."

Erik

06:32

Yeah, 4e would not be my system of choice for such a player.

BESW

It was a threshold moment for me, and re-framed all my struggles and challenges over nearly 10 years of D&D.

I'd been thinking about trying DFRPG, and that night was what cemented in my mind that we needed a dramatic system change. Turned out DFRPG wasn't the right system for us, but it was a good gateway because the group was excited about the franchise--which helped bridge reticence about sunk costs.

Yuuki

07:23

Does 5e have any mechanics that rely on alignment?

Chemus

07:36

@Yuuki Besides detect [alignment] and protection from [same]?

Yuuki

Detect <Alignment> has been combined into a single Detect Evil and Good spell and it functions off of monster subtype rather than alignment.

I think.

And I think Protection From <Alignment> is the same.

Chemus

Yes; I merely looked at the spell list...

So: lair effects of the silver dragon (MM p118) has: Within 1 mile of the lair, winds buoy non-evil creatures that fall due to no act of the dragon's or its allies. Such creatures descend at a rate of 60 feet per round and take no falling damage. For example.

@Yuuki Healing spells cast by good creatures on good creatures near a Unicorn's lair can be maximized.

Yuuki

07:55

Okay, seems like mostly small things.

Or very situational things.

Which I can probably retune.

I don't like the Good-Evil nomenclature and was wondering if there were any mechanics that would be messed up if I retooled it for my homebrew setting.

Chemus

Looks like it's pretty open, then. Even those things I found were open. Alignment is talked about quite a bit in PHB, but it's mostly RP stuff (as it 'should' be)

doppelgreener

13:11

Some awesome & terrifying gifs of natural weather. (And remember, in a world with Magic, you can do at least that extreme!)

Shalvenay

13:48

hey there @PhiNotPi

Shalvenay

14:10

hey @Ash

NautArch

Howdy @Shalvenay @Yuuki

Shalvenay

hey there @NautArch

how're things going?

NautArch

And @doppelgreener!

Not bad. At my son's swim lesson. 3 hours to gameday!

Gameday during spring/summer is tough. Weather is so nice outside and hard to justify being indoors.

Shalvenay

well...it kinda depends. we're in the thick of the weather over here xD

NautArch

Where's here?

Shalvenay

14:19

(midwest US)

NautArch

Ah, I'm northeast. It's pretty perfect today. If you ignore the pollen.

Looking forward to unleashing my bard today.

Hoping dm uses a humanoid so I can try out dominate person.

Shalvenay

xD what system?

NautArch

5e

Right now, that's our main focus. We've dropped into Iron Kingdoms, though.

Shalvenay

ah

NautArch

But haven't played it awhile. And our dm likes to take away our gear, so we're currently without anything. So that's annoying.

Have you played IK?

Shalvenay

14:25

I have not

also...does your DM say why they like to jack your gear?

NautArch

It's a very cool game. Entirely d6 based.

Base 2d6 with opportunities to get an extra die or two.

Sort of a magic/steam punk world.

doppelgreener

@NautArch Hi!

I am finally mostly recovered from a flu that has dogged me all week.

NautArch

14:48

@doppelgreener ugh, but glad to hear you're on the mend

Yuuki

15:17

The best thing about being a tiefling with an STD is that you have resistance to fire damage.

Shalvenay

hey there @Yuuki

Yuuki

Hello.

Working on completely unnecessary details for my homebrew setting, I decided to fix the one problem I've been having with other fantasy pantheons: the death god is always the bad guy.

So the death god in my setting is both the "leader" of the gods, lawful good (or lawful altruistic), and a god of nature.

doppelgreener

@Yuuki The Raven Queen's a nice alternative in Points of Light.

There was a god of death, undeath, and several other things -- and he became drunk with power, so a few other gods and minor gods decided to bring deicide down upon him. After he died they split up his portfolio (because they figured this much power shouldn't be given to any one deity), and the "death and afterlife" part of it went to The Raven Queen, who was previously said corrupt god's consort (by force; she didn't want it).

Shalvenay

@Yuuki ...last I checked, Kelemvor was LN...

Yuuki

Well, death gods in modern pop culture tend to be either lawful evil, chaotic evil, or lawful neutral.

doppelgreener

15:26

That's reasonable, yeah. (With affordance for where the two-axis system doesn't accurately describe stuff, but they are frequently evil or neutral.)

Yuuki

At least, the stuff that I encounter.

So I'm going to make a lawful good death god and a chaotic evil life god.

Both are also deities of nature.

In this case, good is "altruistic" and evil is "egocentric".

I feel like chaotic egocentric makes the most sense with a god of life and nature as that represents wild animals the best. Nature doesn't care much for rules, only survival which is innately self-centered.

Shalvenay

@Yuuki reminds me a bit of Malar actually

@Yuuki will you be around tonight btw? if so, I'd be more than happy to run my dungeon for you then as a one-on-one

Yuuki

@Shalvenay I don't think I'll be available tonight, I have previous engagements. :(

Shalvenay

@Yuuki drat. I could do a mini-run for you now, but 2hours would make for a bit of a rush. I should have time sometime this week though...

Shalvenay

15:41

@Yuuki would a weekday evening this week work better for you?

Yuuki

Hmm... Wednesdays and Thursdays are typically right out. I have D&D on Tuesday nights, but that ends at 8pm CST.

Shalvenay

@Yuuki so Monday or Friday then?

Yuuki

Yeah, I think I can do that.

Shalvenay

@Yuuki which evening do you think'd work better?

Yuuki

Hmm... Mondays are usually quieter days so I won't get pulled into random activities with friends.

But I also tend to stay later at work on Mondays.

Shalvenay

15:57

I should be on a good chunk of the night Monday evening -- so when do you get off work?

Tom Dacre

What tag should I use if I'm looking for the article that a rule or statistic is found in?

@Yuuki It's easier than most people think to write a death god as being good. All you need to do is make immortality an evil, corrupting force and you're good to go. (Hell, lots of fantasy already does that, especially with undead being almost 100% evil).

nitsua60

@TomDacre You mean something like "I know $SYSTEM had a rule for $EDGE_MECHANIC, but I can't seem to find it... where is it?"

Yuuki

@Shalvenay Well, I usually leave around 6-6:30 CST.

Shalvenay

@Yuuki that's not a problem

Yuuki

And it's anywhere from 15-30 minutes to get home, depending on traffic.

nitsua60

16:02

@Shalvenay your slot start up in 2 hours or so?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 yeah

Tom Dacre

@nitsua60 Well, a monster's statistics block, but basically, yeah.

nitsua60

@TomDacre I'd think tag:$SYSTEM, tag:monster, tag:product-identification should cover it....

Tom Dacre

@nitsua60 Thanks.

nitsua60

It's sort of a nuanced PID question, but I think it's a useful usage.

Hmm... PID tag-wiki could use a little care....

doppelgreener

16:38

@nitsua60 in that there isn't one?

i like the wiki excerpt

what's on your mind about updating it?

Yuuki

17:31

So I just realized that I'm spending waaay too much time writing out greater-scope lore when I'm probably starting at 1st level where characters wouldn't interact with that at all.

doppelgreener

17:46

@Yuuki I've heard it described that lore should be written like an inverse donut: the players need detail about what's immediately around them, and detail about the big picture of the world, and don't need detail about the intermediate stuff.

Yuuki

Well, there's some outer-level stuff like deities that need to be fleshed out, but I think I was starting to get too into the weeds.

doppelgreener

I think for deities, players would care about a brief summary of the major deities, because that's important to establishing the big picture, but the intimate details of a deity doesn't matter until they are directly doing business with that deity.

Zachiel

19:09

@Yuuki Also, a general political overview of the setting would be appropriate. What's the big news everybody in the area got to know about?

This can easily tie into local situations like gropus of soldiers relocating, political unrest, tax raises or other things that the players will recognize as symptoms of a consistent world.

(Wow, it looks like I could build a campaign in a custom setting, if I only would...)

KorvinStarmast

19:28

@Yuuki A sprite can know a creature's alignment via the ability called "heart sight" so if you have a Sprite Familiar, you can learn alignment. There is a DC 10 for all except fiends, celestials, and undead whose alignment is known without a save

Papayaman1000

19:55

FREEDOM

doppelgreener

20:14

Cortex Prime Kickstarter: the next generation of Cortex after Cortex Plus. It's already funded, and it's still got a month to go!

4

Zachiel

20:29

@Papayaman1000 Pharrel Williams?

@BESW I'd ~~like~~ love to hear some examples of that.

Papayaman1000

@Zachiel I learned about a new person today

and I still don't get it

Hipster Opinion: Blockly [Google's block-based cross-language-(so-long-as-someone-codes-it-in) learning tool] is a legitimately good way to pick up a new language or tool even for experienced programmers.

Zachiel

@Papayaman1000 from the official youtube channel

Papayaman1000

@Zachiel ahhh ok

Zachiel

I just learned that it was actually Pharrel who "taught me how to spell _bananas-" - He's the author of Hollaback Girl, ssang by Gwen Stefani

nitsua60

20:51

@doppelgreener It seemed to me that PID would be reasonable to put on the question @TomDacre was asking about, but the wiki excerpt didn't really support it. I figured since I can edit the wiki and not vice-versa, perhaps it should change =)

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 there is content-identification for material inside books, including rules within games

if that's what we're getting at

nitsua60

@doppelgreener ahh... that's more like it, then.

SirTechSpec

Quick heads up - I know I'm late to the party, but I've just added my thoughts on moderation style to the "how are we doing" question, and I'd appreciate any feedback. I mention it because it's relevant to the ongoing elections.

doppelgreener

21:21

@SirTechSpec Seems sensible. I know BESW's identified a few things that help his communications seem welcoming, but there's a lot of parts to it as well and it's taken me a while of being around him to pick up on how he does what he does.

SirTechSpec

@doppelgreener Yeah, I mean, obviously a lot of it comes down to extensive training and/or attitude, but there are some parts that should be more easily reproducible by those of us who are willing. KS linked to part of that, but I know there's more already written somewhere.

BESW

22:09

@SirTechSpec I don't have the time/energy to write up a coherent post right now, but here are the resources I'd use to do so:

> We could use some more pro-forma comments; Pre-made comments: A resource-gathering & workshopping thread; Could we have a [tour] short link in comments?; How to make the community's Nice Actions more visible?;

> When should I comment?; A chart of comments per user; Who should make welcoming comments?; Well-intentioned help-piles are occasionally problematic.

Shalvenay

23:23

hey there @SirTechSpec

hey as well @nitsua60 and @Papayaman1000

Papayaman1000

@Shalvenay mnyaah I forgot I had headphones on

ow

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Papayaman1000

Today's project (after a hellish weekend): Making a font out of a single pixel art .png

Shalvenay

ah. got to run my dungeon at the con I was at :)

Papayaman1000

@Shalvenay /*Lucky*/

Chemus

23:31

@Shalvenay How'd that go?

Shalvenay

alright -- got a couple players

Chemus

Finish the adventure?

Shalvenay

we did finish the dungeon, yes :)

Chemus

Good. They left no turn un-stoned?

Adeptus

23:54

Hi all

Chemus

Hi @Adeptus this room is too busy. Can you slow things down please?

:D

Adeptus

o

k

trogdor

lol

Chemus

anyone else notice how 'lol' looks like a ref noting a goal?

or a TIE fighter...

trogdor

gooooaaal

Chemus

23:59

or rreeeerrrhhhhh

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