@Yuuki I'm sick of angsty vengeance paladins - they've been everywhere since the PHB was released, and they're kind of annoying to begin with. Whereas your second idea I haven't seen anyone do before, and it sounds pretty cool.

@daze413 actually, I decided to go with something more classical in combat style for my NE bard

@Miniman Fair enough. I wanted to take advantage of the deva guide that aasimar have and have a kind of greater good vs. "look out for the little guy" conflict.

@Yuuki I mean, that's just me. You should do whichever you prefer.

@Miniman Well, that's what I was thinking for the Devotion build. Vengeance probably did seem kinda edgy.

VtC tool rec

@doppelgreener hmm... interesting colloquy going on there. I took a deep breath and stepped back.

@nitsua60 same

@nitsua60 somehow we worked our way back to sensible grounds.

A habit of BESW's has rubbed off on me: even if someone appears to be behaving badly, sometimes it works very well to respond to them as if they're making their best efforts to engage constructively, and engage constructively in kind. If they are trying to engage that way, things will soon clear up. If they are behaving badly, it'll stand out; if they're trying to be a troll, it flusters and confuses them.

how often has it seemed like someone was behaving badly?

or has it just happened too many times to count?

@trogdor [gestures to the vast fortifications of The Stack, littered as they are with the corpses of hundreds of trolls]

more than fair yeah

if you mean to ask how many times we've had well-intentioned people only seeming to behave badly, i've only seen a few times, but it's worth doing. especially because it is an equally valid tool for dealing with trolls. :D

@doppelgreener yeah I didn't clarify that well

as I was typing I was specifically thinking of that kind of misunderstanding

XD

gotcha ;D

It doesn't work well in the sense that a troll's goal is usually to waste our time and this approach does take a lot of time.

But if you're okay with that, it's a great way to get practice in reasonable dialog, it shows the community we don't have to immediately default to "he started it" jerk-fights, and if somebody is actually sincere but having a hard time communicating I think that's definitely worth it.

yeah, it still sucks that anyone has ever decided to troll

And considering the number of times that someone responding impatiently has given fuel to somebody else's paranoia and conspiracy theories about site management here, I think it's an actively useful defensive mechanism.

(Gosh, being extra polite and assuming good faith means people are less likely to assume we're biased, tyrannical, or mean-spirited. [shock])

lol

I've been recently reminded of just how frustrating online conversations can be. I posted a message in several board game design communities amounting to "there's this problem I'm having, and others must have it too, so I thought of an interesting solution. Would anyone be willing to participate in it, to make it work?" Got plenty of well-meaning people advising me on the problem. It's like their eyes glaze over half way through the post; or they just really want to contribute.

@daze413 I've got a sick girl at home (strep)--if she's needy in the night I may not make it up for tomorrow morning's shenanigans. @Shalvenay would you mind picking up a second character in that case? (Either HO Ftr or E Wz?) (cc: @Miniman)

@nitsua60 I could roll the half-orc fighter I suppose

thanks

do you have them statted already ,or do you want me to stat the HO fighter?

I hadn't done so. I was just thinking of a gu swinging a maul really hard. But you be you, man =)

@nitsua60 haha -- Jherala could probably keep up with most any orcblood out there when it comes to pounding stuff with a maul ;)

are these games all scheduled at this same time every week?

or is the next one in a few days or something?

@trogdor the stuff Nitsua's DMing is on a regular schedule

Daze's game is a one-off on a totally different sched due to timezones

yeah, but is it all only this day?

ooooh ok

that clears that up then

I mean, I'd point-buy Str and Con up to 14 & 15, taking 16 at creation. Cha isn't a bad third-highest stat, as HO gets intimidation. Maul, either GWF or defense, chain; I like BM for ftrs, but Champion is nice if you don't want to worry too much about two complex characters, and the expanded crit synergizes nicely with HO savage attacks. Then at L4 it's either bump str up to 18 or take a feat; depending on your preferences GWM (again, look at the crit-synergies) or HAM aren't bad.

(If HAM, worth point-buying Str up to 15, so you have 17 at creation and still end up at 18 at L4.)

Then L5 brings second attack and you're likely to land one of those super-bad crit-hits most combats =)

I'm liking the idea of grabbing persuasion as another skill, and taking the "two martial weapons" option from starting equipment. Take two mauls, painting one rainbows and unikitties, the other black with slavering fangs and a racing stripe. Call one "the persuader" and the other "the intimidator."

Hell, at that point I might go with Angry's recent advice and just make that character's intimidation and persuasion checks STR-based.

@nitsua60 which is funny, because I plan to make him actually a rather lanky sort of guy

@nitsua60 I've always felt an important part of those skills was knowing how to use your physical impressiveness to your advantage: if you don't have the charisma to back it up, your muscles will just make you look like a dumb ox or scare people you want to reassure, etc.

cool. you be you =)

Lately, when considering skill/ability combos, I've been leaning toward the twofer.

the half-orc pats his knee, inviting the hin priest up onto his lap and wrapping part of his cloak around the shivering hin

@BESW Right--physical intimidation seems (to me) as much a social awareness and body-positioning thing as it is a matter of what (physical frame) you have to work with.

That said, being 6'3" and in decent shape, I know that the physicality isn't nothing.

For example, there are systems where instead of having a skill, you'd pick the two stats which, combined, define your action.

@BESW cool!

To persuade with physicality, CHA + STR.

To persuade with reason, CHA + INT.

To persuade with rhetoric, CHA + WIS.

this is actually rather lulzy -- the half-elf bard is heavier than the half-orc fighter

but that's because the half-elf bard is a round glutton :P

@nitsua60 that's not a problem, man. Hope that ray of sunshine gets better!

@trogdor wanna join? I currently have @Miniman, @Shalvenay and @nitsua60 joining with multiple characters each

well, I think my schedule isn't going to permit it

I was asking because I thought shalv was talking about nitsua's campaign

and I figured if the next game he was talking about was at the same time a week from today that I could jump in as a one shot character to fill the gap

but none of what I assumed was what was being talked about XD

@trogdor I don't know how late you run your nights, but it's about 9pm tonight, our time.

not here

@trogdor That's a shame.

besides which, if you mean right now in relation to what I said, when they started that game today it was around 11:30

and they stopped around 2

@Miniman it's still late afternoon here

@trogdor No, I mean the game is at 9pm according to the timezone you and I share.

It is also afternoon here.

oooooh

I was confused as to how it could be so late in ANY Austrailian timezone,...... xD

I mean, if it is literally today, I am inclined towards a no

I do want to try out a 5e game, but I was not planning on doing much of anything today

and also,... starting a game at 9pm would be taxing considering the late hour I stayed up last night

if this were next week, I would probably at least say maybe,.. but today I don't think I can do

I do sincerely appreciate the apparent offer though

there is a general plan to try out a 5e game at some point, so that is a thing I will be wanting to do

@trogdor At some point in the near future I might be starting a new online game - I'll let you know.

mk

@nitsua60 has also made an offer to run something with BESW and I at some point, maybe the summer or something I think he said

but something that might fit my schedule before that could also work

both could even, I mean

Sorry, I got pulled away.

As a curiosity, what sort of campaign do you enjoy?

@Miniman (Dave Chappelle meme) hey man, got any more room in there? :D

@daze413 Probably, although scheduling might be an issue.

You're 3 hours behind, right?

@Miniman it's 2:09 here. We're at +8

Cool - I'll ping you when I'm getting started.

@Miniman whats the schedule?

@daze413 Don't know yet.

ah, I thought you meant starting the game.

So what it is is, I have one session left on a campaign, and I'm not sure when I'll get to finish it.

After that, I want to set something new up.

@Miniman uh mostly in D&D I just like any kind of game that allows for role play but has combat in it

my main reason for trying out 5e is to see how it works mechanically

I don't have any reason to believe I will like it better than even 4e, and I don't play too much 4e even partly because it had it's own issues

Fair enough!

Any campaign of mine will have combat aplenty.

mk, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a "political intrigue with little to no combat" thing XD

Nah, that's not me.

it isn't even like I wouldn't necessarily like that kind of game,.... but one of those being run in any D&D system doesn't make too much sense to me when I could be playing one in , say, Fate

@trogdor Am interested in a game like this just because I haven't tried it.

@daze413 I would play a game like this, but not in any D&D system

it's even what I half picture @BESW 's eventual Magical Eqypt campaign to be like

that's fair :)

though to be fair there may be more combat also interspersed in that as well

I've only run premades in the past, but I've been thinking about running my own Planescape campaign.

@trogdor I'm imagining that most of the combat we might see would be opposing assasination attempts, maybe some highway robbery during travel, and maybe eventually overseeing/participating in international warfare.

yeah, I didn't figure it would like, just randomly happen a lot

But yeah, primarily court intrigue, political jockeying, the sort of stuff Chrisjen Avasarala would be comfortable with.

though you might classify bandits attacking while you travel as such

No less bloodthirsty, but less actual blood.

@BESW lol

she is still the scariest character in that whole story, and there are some muerderey terrorists in it

hey there @daze413

@Shalvenay heyy, just came from dinner. You joining later?

I suppose it depends if nitsua can make it or not

if he can, I'm OK with joining -- if he can't -- I'm running on short rest and would rather not deal with 2 chars at once while doing so, come to think of it...so, it'd be better to postpone it to next week at the same time and have me trade out with @trogdor

did he say definitively if he could make it or not?

Nah

hrm...it seems like we have no nitsua...

seems like it

aww... my builtin laptop speakers got broke :(

hrm...did you still want to go for it @daze413?

@Shalvenay nah, we're short too many. unless you and @Miniman are still up for running 2 PCs each?

@daze413 I'm up for it, although it's getting very late.

it is :/

mah, we'll pick it up some other time :)

When are you planning to run it? It's been put off so many times, you must be beginning to run out of testing time?

nah, our RL game also got postponed, and this boss is pretty far away.

its a quantum encounter, to my optional shame (not really ashamed)

@daze413 XD

are all simple weapons also considered martial weapons?

For what purpose?

@Yuuki 1) proficiencies and 2) starting equipment

@Shalvenay No.

Weapons are either simple or martial.

@Shalvenay I think all classes have proficiency with simple weapons, no?

As for starting equipment, I'm guessing you're asking if you can take a simple weapon instead of a martial weapon?

@Yuuki Not all, but most.

And everyone that has proficiency in martial weapons has proficiency in simple weapons.

@Yuuki yeah

@Miniman the question re: proficiency was a bit of a lark (all the WoTC stuff I know of is the way you describe, but you never know when you'll run into some buggy 3PP/homebrew thing)

Hmm... by RAW, I don't think you can, but I think that's something you can convince your DM on.

@daze413 -- is it OK if I swap one of my char's starting martial weapons for a simple weapon?

@Shalvenay knock yourself out :)

like, really, take that simple weapon... and..

... put it to good use

srsly tho, wut

didn't need the extra martial weapon slot and wanted a 3rd handaxe for tossin'

ah, I see. also, i'll bring up magic weapons just right before we start.

I wish the DMG had treasure hoard tables for low/mid/high magic campaigns each :(

it sucks when you roll two +2 weapon at 5th level, PCs too OP... have to ramp up the difficulty

@daze413 Ahh... sorry, everyone. I thought it'd work out with @Shalvenay and @Miniman each running two. (Daughter was pretty uncomfortable through the night, and when she finally settled fro some good sleep I needed to try and grab a few hours, too.)

@nitsua60 np

If I'm multiclassing Paladin and Warlock, how should I progress? Should I do Paladin 3/Warlock 3/Paladin X or Paladin 4/Warlock 3/Paladin X so I can get that ability score improvement?

@Yuuki I'm thinking Pal 4/War 4/... on my Palalock (for ASI/feat reasons)

Yeah, maybe 4 levels in Warlock. It's not like there's much difference between Paladin 16 vs. Paladin 17.

@daze413 My DM just rolled a +3 weapon the other day, and all my other party members like their magic weapons better; he really wasn't looking to give me a +3 longbow. (Already having archery fighting style, bracers of archery, +5 dex and +4 prof.)

But now I've got it. With precision dice hanging around in my pocket.

oh dear

@nitsua60 -- do you want me to export a copy of the H-O Fighter I rolled up?

(also, in other good news -- I talked to a local bookbinder yesterday and it actually seems to be reasonable to get my 5e PHB's binding sewn

hey there @ThomasWard

Hello again!

hey there @Anaphory

how're things going?

Good, tired from a busy week, but back home now.

OK here. pondering some interesting twists that have come up in nitsua's game, and also musing to myself about a certain Dragonborn princess, a gown, a matching dress warhammer, and a royal ball :o

@Shalvenay Yeah, no question I'm a one-trick pony. (Except one time my GM wanted to throw me a curveball and got me surrounded by melee skirmishers in a small space. And discovered all my swashbuckling features that I'd never used =)

@Shalvenay Not necessary--if you made one up, I certainly don't mind if you go ahead and play it and the bard. I could just take Wizwiz whenever we get to do this little test.

@nitsua60 haha, too bad Wizwazzle was a rogue and not a wizard :P

Sometimes, I wonder if I should make female characters because it's just so much easier to find art.

I almost feel this Q&A needs the obligatory OOTS link.

@Yuuki heheh. not necessarily...

hey there @SirTechSpec

and hey again @nitsua60

Thought: atheist paladin.

@Yuuki I'd say that's strongly setting-dependent

the thought evokes a Dark Sun type setting though

I feel like atheism would mean something different in the D&D-verse though. Rather than believing that there's no such thing as gods, D&D atheists don't follow a god and believe that <race>-ity would be better off without god worship.

> A Paladin that's wearing the holy symbol of every God ever on his neck and he flips through them like a rolodex whenever he has to smite someone.

That would be interesting.

also, what sort of campaign are you looking at for your Aasimar Palalock?

I think it's going to be homebrew.

interesting -- do you know anything about what the DM is brewing up, or is that going to be a surprise?

Looks like a surprise.

hrm...I'm just glad that the Warlock in 5e is a much better thought out class than it was in 3.x

(3.x 'locks suffered from a terrible case of ambiguity regarding acceptable patronage, which was really annoying because I think it led DMs to pidgeonhole patrons more than they already did)

(not that that system lacked pidgeonholes, either. race/class/alignment interlocks drive me a bit nuts sometimes, and I was glad to see them jettisoned altogether)

but yeah -- I kinda feel ya on the art thing -- I'm caught in this strange gulf between "stick figure land" and "actually being able to sketch characters to a first order of reasonableness"

(it also doesn't help that my characters tend to be...somewhat oddly shaped and sized)

@nitsua60 All good, these things happen! Hope your daughter's OK.

(I mean, how dare you take care of your sick kid instead of playing D&D with us! What an outrage!)

lol

meatspace problems take precedence, especially sick children

(I mean, how dare you waste the time of people on the Interwebz!)

@Yuuki That's not atheism (disbelief in deities), that's misotheism (mistrust in deities).

All right, I guess atheism really isn't applicable in a D&D universe.

It's very very hard to be an atheist in most D&D-like settings, as there's ample empirical proof of beings indistinguishable from the setting's concept of godhood.

you could run a setting where it is less obvious

@BESW You mean belief in soup made from fermented soybeans?

@Miniman Miso is mother, miso is father.

It's also useful to remember that D&D's concept of polytheism is completely unlike any real-world pantheon I've ever heard of: it's a monotheist's misconception of polytheism.

and Jar Jar is dead XD

@BESW That one flew way over my head.

@BESW D&D pantheons are definitely freaking ridiculous

especially since they are actually basically all sub pantheons that add into a mega pantheon that acknowledges that all those gods exist XD

sure they don't all agree with each other, but they exist

@Miniman Babylon 5; the Psi Corps is a quasi-government group originally created to control the psionic members of the population, but now a mostly independent entity unto itself run by psionics with a cult-like level of devotion to the Corps itself: "The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father."

@BESW Ah, right. Babylon 5 is one of those cultural touchstones that I missed completely :)

@BESW Hmm... I'll definitely take that into consideration when RPing my Paladin.

@Yuuki These kinds of ideas are part of why I'm building up to running a campaign set in ancient Egypt, and I'll probably represent deity worship as a form of mechanised relationship web.

@BESW I would upvote that answer, but I did it a long time ago XD

@Miniman Thanks--she's actually perked up quite a bit through the day. Modern medicine... =)