TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

00:00

hey again @nitsua60

trogdor

@nitsua60 good to hear that

Miniman

@nitsua60 Hooray!

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 and good to hear the kidlet is feeling better

nitsua60

I wonder if the daylight there lies in the notion of godhood.
If I lived in a world where there were beings more powerful than I who could create life and even warp the fabric of existence (wizards), some of whom don't even live in a place physically accessible from my world and whose fingerprints can be interred around the place but who sometimes manifest more-directly (planar beings), some of whom seem a tier more-powerful than any of *those* (lesser deities) but can be killed, while some others (greater deities) occasionally manifest but cannot (seemingly) be killed...

Thanks, @Miniman @trogdor @Shalvenay.

This is the one I was talking about the other day: a six year-old with max CHA.

When she's sick, it seems like the whole world slows down a bit.

trogdor

I can only ineffectually imagine what that is like

nitsua60

00:08

(It may be that I'm over-sensitive to her discomfort/pain, as she's my "hospital buddy": I've had to take her for a double-fracture (look up "banana fracture if you want to toss your cookies), a head-wound that exposed skull-bone, Lyme disease that had her incapable of walking.... There's a lot of emotional resonance any time I see her physically unhappy.)

trogdor

the closest I have is when my brother was pretty sick a couple times when we were kids

@nitsua60 wow, that is a lot of stuff to go through already

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 ouch!

nitsua60

@trogdor I think before I had kids I wouldn't have even realized how ineffectual my emotional capacity was, so you're a leg up on me there =)

Miniman

@nitsua60 Ouch, that's rough. Especially for a 6-year-old.

BESW

@nitsua60 The context, I think, is that the people-of-the-book don't exist in D&D. Their culture lacks the concept of an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-encompassing, self-sufficient, etc., being.

trogdor

00:10

@nitsua60 i'm pretty introspective XD :P

Miniman

@BESW Well, depending on setting.

nitsua60

@trogdor Yeah, but it's also a reminder to be grateful: we live where we have easy access to modern health-care, we have stable employment and continuous health coverage, &c. FWP, all the way.

BESW

Consider Egyptian or Nordic mythology, in which gods squabble, get tricked, and die.

nitsua60

@trogdor You can't BURN that many people without getting pensive once or twice?

BESW

And not always at the hands of other gods, either.

trogdor

00:11

@nitsua60 this is true

@nitsua60 how many people do you think I have actually BURNINATED? because the answer may surprise you

BESW

@nitsua60 Do the ER folks know you by face and name yet?

Miniman

@trogdor 76.5?

trogdor

@Miniman that point 5 person is the least lucky of all :P

0 is the right answer

in fact, more people have actually BURNINATED me than the number of people I have BURNINATED

nitsua60

@trogdor Well, I was told when I was a kid that by this time we'd have to be colonizing other planets to find places to live. But there's still room, so I assume that's your doing.

(brb--bed-time)

trogdor

@nitsua60 no, I am not contributing to fix that particular problem, in pretty much any way whatsoever

especially not that way

BESW

00:54

→ 39 messages moved to Not a bar, but plays one on TV

Shalvenay

hey there @daze413

daze413

@Shalvenay heya! helluva rainy day here. pants and socks are soaked :p

Shalvenay

how're things going?

daze413

business is plummeting D: a few unlucky rolls and I'm falling way behind of the competition

which is indicative that it's prolly not a very good business to begin with

Shalvenay

awww :/

daze413

01:08

which reminds me, I have to delete my question on arqade

But I guess if its getting buried under so many other questions, it's not really a problem?

Shalvenay

tumbleweeds happen, man

daze413

hm, yeah, it's not hurting anyone. Who knows, I might get a hdden golden tumbleweed badge

Shalvenay

as to me? OK. got the mental image of my dragonborn princess walking into the royal ball with a gown on over her splintmail and a big warhammer at her hip...

(and that reminds me I need to toss a bounty out there :D)

daze413

@Shalvenay Why aren't the other ball attendees not worried that there will be a repeat of the Red Wedding?

Shalvenay

@daze413 probably because she's a regular guest, not even the guest of honor, and very much not hosting the occasion (her people prefer their diplomatic occasions more...low-key than fanciful, but sometimes you're in Rome and have to do as the Romans do)

daze413

01:22

@Shalvenay If some foreign guy came up to our hosh-posh party carrying an M4, I'd worry. Just saying :)

I'd kick her out... politely (as I get glimpse of the haft of her hammer beneath her dress)

Miniman

@daze413 Don't forget wearing a bullet-proof vest.

Shalvenay

hrm...well, she probably wouldn't take the warhammer if the invite said for everyone to leave their dress weapons at home -- but most of the other guests have court-swords and such with them in this case

daze413

@Miniman meh, these days, you can wear em over a suit. Just not the ones with metal plates, maybe if its just kevlar.

Miniman

@daze413 That's the point - splintmail isn't like a low-key, concealed bullet-proof vest a "diplomat" might wear if they thought things were going bad. We're talking more on the level of a tactical vest complete with helmet.

Shalvenay

...or would they? would the royal ball be a "leave the court-swords and such at home" occasion in your book @daze413?

trogdor

01:27

pretty sure that would indeed cause some concern to the other people around you when you walk in with a weapon and armor

XD

daze413

I have trouble remembering if PCs smelled or are otherwise unpresentable to the public- like if they had giant bat wings sewn on their leather armor or something

I should just write down the weird things my PCs do

trogdor

the weapon itself might fly if everyone else is wearing dress weapons, but the armor would at least raise eyebrows if nothing else

daze413

@Shalvenay that depends on the setting, I guess. I could imagine a culture that can allow that, yes. I wonder what sort of history they've had, though. And how does one deter people killing other people with their dress swords

Miniman

@daze413 Alternatively, just assume they're always looking weird in some way and you probably won't be wrong.

Shalvenay

@daze413 heheheh.

trogdor

01:29

@daze413 I think it definitely depends on the group, and how long they have been in the field without the chance to freshen up

some PC characters would indeed take advantage of a chance to wash all the adventuring crud off of themselves

Shalvenay

Yeah -- Jherala definitely would clean up before such an occasion, polish up whatever she's taking for a dress piece if that's called for, etal

daze413

@trogdor sounds kindy fly-GM-ish, though. "Oh, you were going to the ball? You didnt say you took a bath the day before, so everyone here is giving you a wide berth because you smell."

Shalvenay

(although the other interesting thing is I've always imagined her as going barefoot as that'd be the norm for D'born)

trogdor

@daze413 no, it's just an attempt to point out that you could certainly allow the PC's the chance to get ready for the event

or if you are just cruel, you could also not XD

daze413

@trogdor I once ran a game where the PCs had to dishonor the prospective next head of the guard in a ball. I gave them 3 days to prepare- do anything they can think of... I also made the mistake of giving them another quest to go to a dungeon that is a day away. Guess what they did

trogdor

01:34

went to the dang dungeon, I am guessing

Shalvenay

@trogdor yeah, main reason for the splint mail is that she doesn't have a light chain shirt or what-have-you handy for finer occasions (although that is something she probably would snag in an environment that delicate about things)

Miniman

@daze413 Alternatively, "Oh, you are a giant humanoid bird/person who looks like a demon/drow/ratman/etc? Yeah, people are looking at you funny." IME, any party will always contain at least one completely outrageous-looking member.

Shalvenay

@Miniman Gnoll. xD

Miniman

(Anthropomorphic baleen whale?)

Shalvenay

Gnoll with a big ol' quarterstaff/walking-stick and monk's robes on looking all the part of a big, fluffy Friar Tuck, even, haha

daze413

01:36

Once had a PC wear the skin of an orc, and impaled a severed orc head on her shoulder so she looked like she had two heads.

trogdor

@Shalvenay this is one reason I like Fate, in a Fate game the distinction between what your character would think to do and what they wouldn't can be used to create reasonable problems for them that make sense, and you can be mechanically rewarded for it XD

Shalvenay

@daze413 wow, sheesh xD

daze413

Oddly enough, that's the same player with the bat wings. Im beginning to wonder...

Miniman

@daze413 That brings a new meaning to the term "half-orc".

Shalvenay

@trogdor yeah -- I wonder what sort of ensemble would even be appropriate for someone Jherala's size in a delicate, courtly-intrigue environment

Miniman

01:38

@Shalvenay ...the same sort of ensemble as everyone else?

Shalvenay

(I mean -- seriously -- 6'8" and a lean 260lbs, that'd probably raise eyebrows on the spot even without a warhammer or splint mail to add to it)

Adeptus

@daze413 In a world where an unarmed, harmless-looking person can fireball the entire room, I think potential violence with dress swords is a minor concern...

Miniman

Big people don't wear different clothes, just bigger clothes.

Shalvenay

true to some degree, but I'd think you'd want to downplay the height and bulk some in that environment all the same

trogdor

@Miniman no, because everyone else is trying to wear something different from everyone else XD

Shalvenay

01:39

@Adeptus you do have a point.

daze413

@Adeptus well-said.

Shalvenay

besides, I suspect a gentleman of the stature expected at such occasions would be quite red-cheeked if he was caught out unprepared for a duel, no?

daze413

@Shalvenay I'm sure a good host would lend him a spare rapier and some armor, if needed

Shalvenay

@daze413 haha, I think you have a point there

Miniman

@Shalvenay Traditionally a duel doesn't take place on the spot, once a challenge is issued participants are given some time to prepare, as well as a venue better-suited for it.

Shalvenay

01:41

that is a point, yes

daze413

@Miniman But don't all courtly-houses have decent duel arenas? And if a magistrate is in attendance and willing to approve the duel on the spot.

trogdor

yeah, I think at least in most western cultures, and quite possibly in many non-Western ones but citation needed, it would likely be considered crude to challenge someone to a duel and then just immediately charge them with your weapon even if they have nothing on them. likely more than crude even, downright evil or extra-illegal (because dueling was often illegal anyway in many places and times)

Miniman

@daze413 I was talking about our world - I don't presume to speak for every possible D&D setting.

Well, not usually, anyway.

Shalvenay

so yeah -- how would you downplay a Dragonborn's bulk and height for the purposes of delicate courtly intrigue?

daze413

@Shalvenay a dress that makes her look small?

trogdor

01:44

@daze413 so oversized?

daze413

@Miniman Ah, right. Yeah, isn't the whole slap-with-a-white-glove thing also only in the movies?

Miniman

@Shalvenay I wouldn't - it shouldn't really have much bearing on that kind of scenario. She's not going to be able to blend into a crowd anyway, so why bother?

daze413

@trogdor no, no, like... i donn know maan, fashion is weird, but I'm sure they can do that

Shalvenay

@Miniman true -- I was thinking less "blend in" and more "not spook people" but I suspect she's charismatic enough that she shouldn't have too much trouble with that

daze413

maybe horizontal stripes?

Shalvenay

01:45

@daze413 you could probably pull that off on her with some sort of ocean-wave motif actually

Miniman

@daze413 By my understanding, it wasn't exclusive to fiction, but certainly massively overplayed there.

trogdor

@daze413 I don't know that they easily could just for,... the size of a person's entire body,......

like, individual features, yeah sure

Miniman

@Shalvenay I guess what we should be asking is, what's the goal here? If you just like the image of a dragonborn princess with a ballgown stretched over armour and a weapon at her side, you can make the scenario to fit that rather than the other way around.

daze413

@Shalvenay Come to think of it, wouldn't a dragonborn be OK with not wearing armor under her dress? Coz she has unarmored defense anyway?

Miniman

@daze413 Dragonborn don't have that.

You might be thinking of draconic sorcerers.

Shalvenay

01:49

@daze413 yeah, you're thinking of Draconic ANcestry on the Sorc :P

daze413

@Miniman :o I always get them confused

Miniman

Alternatively, lizardmen have that. Cos lizardmen are better than dragonmen.

@trogdor Oh yeah, did you ever get around to trying Wizardry 8?

Shalvenay

@Miniman haha. I actually have lizardfolk characters that'd do better on Capitol Hill than some of the current denizens :P

daze413

@Miniman hissss!

trogdor

@Miniman oh yeah, even finished it

Miniman

01:51

@trogdor Nice! What'd you think?

trogdor

saw all the endings and everything

Miniman

Oooh, maybe in the bar?

Shalvenay

@Miniman that is true -- I'm sure that courtly occasions in most D&D settings have gotten stranger before

daze413

Adeptus does have a point. How do lords and ladies ensure that their ball is protected from a renegade mage disguised as an invitee

or invitees that have struck up a deal with a fiend since the last time they were invited?

jeez, DnD balls are really dangerous

Miniman

@daze413 The D&D setting kinda requires either that there are no high-level spellcasters, or that every important location is blanketed in antimagic.

Shalvenay

02:02

@daze413 yeah... the Red Wedding is but the beginning

@daze413 Jherala would rather deal with an unexpected fiendish guest than some potential uninvited guests (cough mind flayers hack)

daze413

Given the number of balls and how fiendishly dangerous they are, its a wonder kingdoms dont just outlaw it.

Shalvenay

haha

daze413

Then posh lords and ladies would have their balls in secret, I guess.

Shalvenay

@daze413 hahahaha xD

daze413

"Have balls at your own risk! The crown hereby outlaws any and all balls, gatherings, parties, debuts and the like. The crown shall not be responsible for a thieves guild ruining it, a group of adventurers fireballing the punch because they thought they saw a giant spider in it, animated ice sculpture fiascos. You have been warned."

Adeptus

02:15

> I actually have lizardfolk characters that'd do better on Capitol Hill than some of the current ~~denizens~~ reptile overlords

daze413

then there would be posters all over the city... "Every ball has an assassin in it. Just don't."

Shalvenay

@Adeptus it's a bad sign when you can come up with reptilian overlords who are more fit to lead than the people who were duly elected to office :/

Adeptus

Can I post a political meme here?

Shalvenay

@daze413 complete with the masked, black-suited man lowering a bleeding, pale-faced maiden in a white ballgown to the ground gently after shanking her...

Adeptus

(well, twitter screenshot)

Shalvenay

02:19

@Adeptus just drop it in the NAB?

daze413

@Shalvenay security supervisor, furiously screaming at their lord: "You were having a masquerade! You might as well just have committed a suicide!"

Shalvenay

@daze413 hahaha

there's always the mistake of inviting a high-level druid to the ball and having him turn up in the form of a fire elemental....;)

daze413

Herald, at town square: *"Lord Thorburn, stabbed to death last night at his party."*
People: _Gasp!_
Herlad: *"He was having a masquerade"*
People: _"Oh."_ (walks away)

Adeptus

@daze413 "Lord Thorburn, stabbed to death last night at his party, but now fully recovered, has made a generous donation to the Temple of Pelor"

2

nitsua60

02:49

@Adeptus Plot twist: Temple of Pelor secretly sponsors balls.

Shalvenay

hey again @nitsua60

nitsua60

hiya

Shalvenay

a mind flayer tadpole is an aberration, correct? (just checking an assumption here)

nitsua60

[rummages]

Miniman

@Shalvenay Random side note: the Neothelid is totally awesome, and I really want to use one.

nitsua60

02:53

@Shalvenay I'm going to assume so. I don't see them statted up, but they hatch from something that is an abberation, and they grow into something that's an abberation....

Miniman

@nitsua60 They're statted in Volo's, I think.

nitsua60

@Miniman I'm not seeing the tadpoles there... but Volo's organization is tricky to say the least.

Miniman

@nitsua60 As a side note, does anyone understand in what crazy universe Cranium Rats are <beast> instead of <aberration>?

Even <monstrosity> I could understand.

Shalvenay

@Miniman they are mentioned in Volo's but not statted (at least not statted with the rest of the mind flayers)

Miniman

@Shalvenay Huh, that's my bad.

Shalvenay

02:57

(I suspect the reason they go un-statted is they don't have enough basic capability to be stattable -- it'd be akin to statting a large garden slug)

Miniman

Yeah, if you get the opportunity to kill them , you probably just succeed, no questions asked.

BESW

> Implausibly super computer. Once per session your supercomputer can automatically overcome one obstacle that would normally be impossible to even attempt to overcome.

Magician

BESW

04:23

> New powers as the plot demands. Once per adventure you may spend a Fate point to turn this stunt into a stunt of your choice until the end of the current adventure.

Magician

04:38

> Continuity nod Gain a fate point the first time you use a stunt in a story arc, if you've used this stunt before.

A companion stunt

BESW

05:03

> Ridiculously overpowered. Pick a skill. When you succeed with style using that skill, you can get a fate point instead of a boost.

trogdor

lol

BESW

Aaaand...

> Underdog. Pick a skill. When you fail by three or more when using that skill, gain a fate point.

trogdor

just always steal all fate points

just take em

XD

BESW

> One trick pony. Pick a skill you've already chosen for both Ridiculously overpowered and Underdog. When you tie with that skill, you can gain a fate point instead of a boost.

trogdor

lol

BESW

05:10

> Min/max. Pick a skill. Gain +1 to that skill for each other stunt you have which improves that skill.

trogdor

like I said before, just start taking them, just take all the fate points and run away with them

Miniman

> Author's favourite. When you use your New powers as the plot demands stunt, you automatically succeed with style.

trogdor

ugh, XD

Miniman

@trogdor Not recommended for use in actual play. May contain nuts.

trogdor

no, obviously not XD

Magician

05:13

> Pun-Pun. Whenever Ridiculously Overpowered, Underdog or One Trick Pony grants you a fate point, regain all fate points used in that skill check.

Speaking of things not recommended ever :P

trogdor

lol

win all things, doesn't matter if you have to roll it or not

BESW

> May contain nuts. You gain the Squirrels! skill at +3. It does nothing. Whenever you use Squirrels!, spend a fate point to define its trapping for that roll and that roll alone.

Miniman

@BESW I don't know what "trapping" means in Fate, but I suspect this is a reference to Squirrel Girl.

BESW

"Trapping" is one of the technical terms used for a specific function of a skill, like "make physical attacks with your body" or "improve your situation by talking in a scary way."

Most skills have at least two trappings, often one for overcoming obstacles and one for creating advantages.

Miniman

Ah, so this is a skill that can be applied to anything, albeit at the cost of a fate point.

BESW

05:17

Yup. Hence the Squirrel Girl reference.

Miniman

@BESW Nice!

BESW

She has a special ability that should really never be useful. And yet, somehow it's always useful.

trogdor

lol

Miniman

> Offscreen victory. When describing a scene that was not actually played, you can determine the outcome of the scene regardless of the verisimilitude of that outcome.

(I suspect none of ^^ makes any sense in Fate, I just wanted something for Squirrel Girl's most important battles.)

trogdor

does she get into a lot of fights where you don't see her winning the fight but she does win regardless?

BESW

05:24

> Give the artist a break. Once per adventure when a conflict begins and only if the other players agree, you may spend a fate point to skip straight to the aftermath of your astonishing victory.

2

Miniman

@trogdor Yep. She beat Thanos (one of the most powerful beings in the Marvel Universe). This is...interesting, given that her abilities are "has a lot of squirrels who do what she says".

@BESW Nice!

trogdor

lol

BESW

It's a bit overpowered, but--Squirrel Girl.

trogdor

so is Squirrel Girl just an unapologetic joke character?

Magician

Light-hearted, I'd say.

Miniman

05:26

@BESW Well, if the players agree (and the GM in Fate is a player, right?) then why not?

trogdor

I figured she was just like really strong, but it's weird that they don't actually show some of her astonishing victories

BESW

@Miniman Exactly!

Magician

@trogdor She does fight Dr Doom on page in her current book, teamed up with her older self.

trogdor

@Miniman I actually don't see why you need a stunt for that honestly XD

@Magician fair enough

Magician

Which apparently wasn't the first time

trogdor

05:28

poor Dr Doom

except he is a huge jerk

plus he has robot doubles everywhere, so not so sorry

XD

BESW

Yes, that is Squirrel Girl gossiping with Galactus about how pathetic Thanos is.

trogdor

yeah, I mean, who wouldn't say Thanos is a tool? especially Galactus

BESW

That particular comic has the previous issue conclude with her engaging Galactus in battle, then the next issue opens with her having defeated him, but it's a fake-out because then she does a self-aware flashback about the conflict. The above panel is part of the... "conflict."

trogdor

they don't seem to be fighting at all though?

they even seem to be having pretty friendly banter

BESW

Well, yeah. Galactus likes Squirrel Girl 'cause she's the only person who can see past his terrifying power and treat him like a peer.

That won't stop him from chowing down on Earth though. "A dude's gotta eat."

trogdor

05:41

@BESW well to be fair, if the only time anyone sees him, he is only there to eat the planet,....

even notwithstanding the fact that that will tend to kill everyone on the planet, it makes one feel like he isn't even interested in making any freinds

Miniman

@trogdor So, he should starve to death, just because his only food source sometimes has people living on it?

trogdor

@Miniman no, actually, he should visit some planets when he isn't hungry, is my point

2

XD

Miniman

@trogdor Oh, right.

trogdor

the implication would be that he just came from eating a planet but,... he has to do that anyway right?

Miniman

Wait...can he actually do that? Visit a planet without catastrophic consequences on that planet?

trogdor

05:44

I have no idea

Magician

@Miniman Considering the number of times he's come to Earth only to be repelled, yeah, absolutely

trogdor

I assume he doesn't constantly need to eat immediately after a planet eating session, but what do I know

@Magician oh yeah, fair point

Miniman

@Magician Oh yeah, good point.

Magician

:D

trogdor

makes too much sense

BESW

05:45

@Magician This is actually what Squirrel Girl figures: she realises that the way Earth keeps getting Galactus to not eat it is to find another planet for him.

trogdor

@BESW this must be why he keeps coming back

win-win for him either way

BESW

Miniman

Wait, so Earth replaced the Silver Surfer?

trogdor

that can't be right,.....

that's like, his whole freaking job isn't it?

BESW

See, Galactus doesn't like eating populated planets.

Magician

05:47

Galactus has had many heralds. Right now Silver Surfer is having adventures in a delightful book of his own.

trogdor

@BESW doesn't he have to?

BESW

Right.

trogdor

I thought someone said he sorta has to eat populated planets to get any benifit

Magician

As for Galactus, he's recently been transformed into a Lifebringer:

Miniman

@Magician I actually did know that - I just hadn't realised we'd taken on the job XD

BESW

05:48

@trogdor No, he needs life energy on a massive scale. It doesn't have to be intelligent life.

Magician

Which may not last, unfortunately for everyone

BESW

But he gets hungry too often to make searching for uninhabited planets a reasonable solution; hence the Silver Surfer.

trogdor

@BESW ooooh

BESW

But he's had a horrible history with Silver Surfers.

trogdor

I imagine there can be issues with that job description

either the person with the job doesn't want to do it because jeez, that's horrible, or on the other end of the scale, major power trip "I can destroy an entire planet just by bringing my boss over" XD

Miniman

05:51

Alternatively "Hey I've got this sweet surfboard that gives me a smorgasboard of cool tricks!"

trogdor

yeah the carefree, irresponsible, and therefore useless option XD

none of those sound too great honestly

for Gallactus or anyone else

@Magician so, does he take over the job from someone else?

Magician

@trogdor As a Lifebringer? No, it's essentially his repentance, recreating the worlds he's destroyed.

trogdor

I thought he was a balancing element? some worlds have to be destroyed and then more are made by some other force?

Magician

Except cosmic powers are jerks, and have seemingly already reversed it

Miniman

@trogdor Nah, just a snackaholic.

Magician

05:55

@trogdor There's that too, there's various justifications for his necessity. Read Ultimates to find out :)

trogdor

@Magician nah, not really a rabbit hole I actually truly want to go down

I imagine they will just keep changing how stuff works

Magician

Undoubtedly

trogdor

seems especially expencive in the long run to actually get commited to being up to date with comic book story explanations

Miniman

What? As if that would ever happen in a long-running comic book universe.

trogdor

yeah, what am I thinking, just silly ideas today

Magician

05:58

The Ultimates actually presented a great explanation for in-universe shifting timelines.

trogdor

eh, but that still like, means they are just making license to change stuff later

Magician

It's inevitable stuff will change

trogdor

I get that they at the very least feel like they have to, but that also means I don't have to ever get invested in it

I do like hearing stuff about it, but I don't have the urge to pick up any comics myself

Magician

"Continuity holds the best writer hostage of the worst." -Marv Wolfman

trogdor

@Magician I prefer my reading not to change

Adeptus

06:03

This could be part of the reason why comic-book movies keep rebooting back to origin story - because the comics they are based on keep doing the same

trogdor

I can still like, stop reading the stuff that seems badly written, or just not my cup of tea

Magician

Mainstream comics are weird. An ongoing story by hundreds of writers told across decades, all featuring the ostensibly same characters.

trogdor

yeah, and part of the problem, as I understand it, is that even the new writers feel the need to include a lot of the ideas of the past anyway

sometimes the same thing happens again

BESW

I'd like to see comics that actually do embrace change, rather than using "change" as an excuse to re-do the same stuff over and over. That way stories can have endings.

trogdor

and even when it doesn't, they are still the same characters again

Miniman

06:06

Yeah, it would be nice to see new characters, rather than "new takes" on existing characters.

Adeptus

@Magician Similar to James Bond movies. All (until recently) written by the same author, but spread across decades and different actors as the same characters

Magician

@BESW That's not going to happen with the Big Two main universes. Too much money involved.

BESW

Alas, it will also spell their doom.

Magician

But individual stories within those ongoing universes can have endings. Even if a month later a different writer will come along and start afresh.

Miniman

@BESW I'm not sure that's an alas moment - they're big enough and ugly enough to take care of themselves.

trogdor

06:08

I don't expect the same powers to never be used, obviously eventually you would paint yourself into a corner there, but different characters with different stories and personalities would be great

@Magician but that is kinda the problem, no closure on the story of a particular character, and alternate reality versions of that character start to feel like an excuse

at the very least eventually

Magician

Honestly, that's not a big problem. You accept the way it works and stop midning very quickly. And if you dislike a particular interpretation of the character, that's fine, soon someone else will do it differently.

New characters appear all the time. Most of them lack staying power.

It woud be interesting to see a comic book universe which grows and changes in a meaningful way. But for that to be successful, the universe itself would have to be the selling point, the main attraction, not the impermanent characters.

I suppose expanded universes of other franchises qualify, e.g. Star Wars.

BESW

Astro City does it. Atomic Robo does it with a single central character and a rotating cast of extras by keeping its timeline untethered.

Magician

@BESW Haven't read Astro City, but Atomic Robo is not a "universe", it's a single ongoing book.

BESW

Orly?

Magician

Ah, a spin-off. Haven't checked on AR in a while.

Still, it's obviously a very different beast from the way MU or DCU function.

BESW

06:25

I'm curious to see what happens in the next... oh, ten years to twenty years. We're already seeing the movie franchises planting seeds for the idea of torch-passing rather than rebooting.

Magician

Yeah, as actors grow older/out of their contracts...

BESW

Actors get old in ways characters don't, and we've seen from Spider-Man and Hulk that rebooting probably isn't the way to go.

Magician

Thanos may yet reboot the MCU in Avengers Infinity War.

BESW

Chances are good the superhero movie franchises are watching Star Wars and Star Trek VERY carefully.

Magician

That, I would love to see. And considering the Real Money are in the movies, the comics would follow suit.

Adeptus

06:33

@BESW I prefer Star Wars' way of doing it - filling in the gaps in the timeline, rather than rebooting & retconning. (Though arguably, Star Trek isn't a reboot exactly, since it is explicitly a separate timeline/dimension/whatever to the originals - which is a long-established trope in the ST universe)

Miniman

@Adeptus Me too, although Star Wars did have to throw out many years worth of content to be able to do this.

Magician

Hah, yeah, all the expanded universe got axed

BESW

Star Trek is functionally a reboot for the purpose of pop culture, not unlike the X-Men cast change.

Magician

And now they're producing a new version of the SW expanded universe, presumably with more oversight to keep it self-consistent.

BESW

Star Wars is going forward to the next generation and introducing new characters from the period of the older generation, without replacing any existing characters (and going to such lengths to keep that continuity that we have some rather unsettling CGI).

I think the key lies in recognising there's no single magical formula; each franchise/medium/story combination has different challenges and needs.

Miniman

06:36

@BESW Yeah, that last bit I did have some issues with. If nothing else, it seems disrespectful to the actor.

Magician

@Miniman I believe the actor's family approved it.

BESW

A big problem lies in thinking that there IS a single solution for everyone or for always. What worked to keep comics from going out of business 20 years ago doesn't work now, what works for Star Trek probably won't work for the MCU, what works for FX doesn't work for Netflix.

Magician

Agreed. Different audiences, different mediums.

Miniman

@Magician Huh, I didn't know that. It's cool both that they were approached and that they agreed.

Magician

@Miniman Don't quote me on this, though, it's just something I saw mentioned in passing myself.

BESW

06:39

Even within the DC movie franchise, they keep trying to copy other successes (the Marvel Experiment and the Nolan Batman, specifically) without much thought about how that approach needs to change for the new context.

Magician

...I keep hoping the next DC movie will be a good one.

BESW

And it's increasingly clear neither Marvel nor DC have any sense of what the comics audience looks like or looks for now.

Or at least, that Diamond Comic Distributors doesn't.

Which is functionally the same thing.

Magician

The whole physical monthly comics thing is just... horrible. Too bad so many people still want it.

BESW

I'm not sure how many people actually DO still want it.

It's kinda hard to tell.

Magician

There are several platforms of digital comics available, people still buy paper ones.

Adeptus

06:43

@Magician Is that any different to ebooks vs paper books? Many people still prefer the physical item

Magician

I'd love a program along the lines of "subscribe to this series for $1per digital issue, with an option to buy a hardback collection discounted by $1 per issue it collects"

@Adeptus New books don't get churned out every month like comics do. Well, they do, but different ones. You get what I mean :P

Too much shipping-storing-discarding overhead.

Adeptus

@Magician Maybe they need to go print-on-demand?

BESW

So, here's the thing.

Adeptus

(though that tends to cost more per item)

BESW

DCD has an effective monopoly on physical printing and delivery of comic books. They NEED monthly issues.

Magician

06:47

@Adeptus Economies of scale, yeah.

BESW

Nobody except DCD makes money off monthly comic books; physical print money is in the trade collections.

But without DCD, no physical print comics happen and comic book stores die.

They've got a strong enough hold on the industry that they can prevent anybody from changing publication to larger volumes once or twice a year (which would probably increase quality because there's more time to polish 'em).

And they also have enough influence that digital sales of comics aren't counted as sales for purposes of determining popularity.

Magician

@BESW Curious. Though... Shirley if digital sales made publishers enough money, they'd still know and act accoringly.

BESW

I don't get all the details of it, but... yeah, it's weird.

DCD plays fancy with the numbers somehow.

It's been explained to me, but I didn't get it. Something about how they deal with comic book stores.

Magician

That's the other thing: comic book stores seem to barely make any profit, so can't afford to not stock monthly comics switching entirely to collections.

BESW

Aye. Comic book stores are the massive losers in the whole deal, and have been... pretty much since they first became a thing.

SF Debris' Comic History is a long watch, but relephant.

Adeptus

06:58

I've noticed local comic stores tend to also stock lots of graphic novels, and comic-related merch. One store still had comics in its name, but had long been a games-store-that-also-has-comics (before it closed).

Magician

07:10

Digital distribution and Amazon killing local stores is a whole 'nother issue.

Magician

07:35

ooooooh

BESW

07:45

Eagerly awaiting.

trogdor

certainly exciting to think of what they might do with that

Secespitus

11:04

Hey guys, new member here. I've got a question: I and my friends have never played DnD or anything similar before and want to start. I will probably try my best as the DM for the first sessions and we will see how things go. I've bought a starter set and some additional reference (like Volos Monster Guide) and I am reading some questions here on RPG.SE. Do you have something like a community wiki post for "Nooby DM 101: What to do and what not to do in your first sessions"?

Miniman

@Secespitus Not relly. There's some stuff here, but nothing like what you're talking about.

Secespitus

@Miniman Okay, thanks. I'll have a look through those questions.

Anaphory

@Secespitus Welcome! I can't think of one big resource either, but the tag @Miniman linked to is a good start, and there are several people here in chat quite often who have gone the path before and are observant and didactically apt enough to share their insights.

Secespitus

@Anaphory Thanks! I will probably look through the questions and when the time of my first session draws near I will probably be in this chat a bit more and ask about specific things. Currently it's just so much material that I thought: maybe someone has already written down the most common mistakes and how to avoid them.

BESW

@Secespitus In my experience, open communication with your group is the most important thing. So long as you're a bunch of friends playing a game together and talking about what you expect, what you enjoy, and what's maybe not working so hot, mistakes aren't a big deal.

Anaphory

11:19

I think to some extent it depends where you come from and what your and the other players' expectations are (and it may be good to make that explicit). I'm sure someone will have their core advice to the new GM written out somewhere and streamlined.

BESW

Everybody's D&D expectations are a little (or a lot) different, so one group's dos can be another group's don'ts.

Secespitus

Our idea was to play a few sessions to test out what works and what doesn't work. And who likes this type of game and who doesn't. The expectations are quite diverse in our group, which is why I am looking for some general tips for starters to tell them "This seems to work for a lot of people, let's try this first and see if it fits our group"

Anaphory

That sounds like a good starting point! What kinds of expectations are you aware of?

Secespitus

The first two people I talked to have a similar take on the whole concept as I have: "Every action should have consequences". Of course I won't be an asshole and kill everyone, but if they didn't listen mutliple times they can(!) get themselves killed. Two other people would like a game where you could die at any moment, even by a random dice-roll. One other person is a bit sensitive. That's why I am planning to go with the middle ground, while keeping an eye on the more sensitive one

Most like high fantasy and are used to computer RPGs in such settings. One often reads, but doesn't play too much.

Everyone has an IT-background and most of us thought "We should play DnD at least once to see how this works and what all the fuzz in other countries is about". The more I read the more I am fascinated and if we can get a group of ~4 people we will probably keep playing from time to time.

Some are reading the whole Players Handbook but most won't have the time to read everything and will just create a simple character for the first session.

BESW

11:35

Cool!

If you like the overall roleplaying thing but D&D doesn't seem to be a good fit, there are a lot of other RPGs out there too--and most of them aren't as expensive or time-consuming to learn.

Miniman

It certainly sounds like you've thought about most of the things that you should, and many that a lot of people miss going in.

Anaphory

In addition to what @BESW said about openness, feedback, communication and expectations [and other RPGs!], the thing GMs (even the most experienced ones) seem to be always getting wrong is time management. Get that sorted and listen extensively to feedback and take breaks, and you should be fine.

If you want to play three sessions or so, do not plan more than what feels like three quarters of a session. Probably even less, getting used to how everything works might be slow, but on top of that people's creativity is huge, and they will find fun in and take longer with things you didn't consider. And if it really only lasts ¾ of an evening, you will have seen what people found amazing and come up with new ideas for the future easily enough.

doppelgreener

@trogdor it's only a week later and d20pfsrd already has another full-page popover ;_;

Secespitus

Thanks guys!

doppelgreener

@Secespitus Hi and welcome!

doppelgreener

11:57

@BESW <--- @JuneShores click bendy arrow for some beautiful banter and even more beautiful stunts above.

Transcript for