TRPG General Chat

Skyler

00:01

the barbarian lit his cloak on fire to get rid of the shadows, the lion crit failed moving into other shadows and popped out, proceeding to get ripped apart by the barbarian as the rest of the party moved to help the wizard

in this turn they wrecked the two close shades while the wizard counterspelled the wizard shade

and they picked those two apart with malice

Shalvenay

nice

Skyler

as the bird brigade came barelling to the wizard he waited until they were out of range of the wizards counterspelling and let out a storm sphere on the loaded bird

Shalvenay

my personal idea of giant bird form shenanigans is to find a way to get a ranged spell or attack that works while in bird form

Skyler

dropping the rogue, but the paladin came in wrecked all hell thanks to their saving throws

Miniman

@Shalvenay cough Sun Soul Monk cough

Skyler

00:05

yea, since my teams druid is phoenix worshipping (with blood of a phoenix pumping through her veins) i let her one off a firebolt cantrip in a fit of fiery inspiration, but I'm not sure if I should allow that as a general ability

Shalvenay

@Miniman oooh. once I get a SCAG I'll have to look much closer into that

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Is that what you were trying to do in DW? [/gentle tease]

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 eventually, yes

nitsua60

=)

Skyler

you guys think just letting her cast firebolt while wildshaped into a bird-type form is reasonable? He Druid circle options werent that great a fit for her characters flavor as it is

Miniman

00:07

@Shalvenay Not a spell, doesn't require a weapon, it's a class feature so you still have it. Only problem is, it's Dex-based :(

@Skyler I wouldn't, personally.

nitsua60

@Skyler Most important, I think, is the impact to other players.

Personally, I don't care if my PCs trample all over the world. But if one player tramples over another, that starts to get problematic.

Skyler

@nitsua60 I think a land druid is locked to CR1 creatures and never gets higher, so the wildshapes drop off in efficacy really fast dont they (party is level 9 now)

Miniman

@Skyler Yep - if a land druid wants to fly, he should probably cast Fly.

nitsua60

@Skyler right, but presumably the WS has lots of utility in non-combat situations.

Skyler

@Miniman a giant eagle is cr1

Miniman

00:11

@Skyler Ah, right.

nitsua60

If that's now their go-to for combat, then they've probably "surpassed" someone.

Skyler

player handbooks example of a cr1 creature actually

nitsua60

At least, that's what I'd worry about/examine/talk with the players about.

Miniman

Another point to consider is that the Druid class design forces players to make meaningful choices.

So by allowing your player to cast spells while Wild Shaped, you're removing that element.

It's up to you to decide whether that's a good thing or not.

Skyler

mhmm, that was mainly why i was thinking of limiting to that single cantrip, not all spells in general

still too strong though?

LegendaryDude

00:13

@Miniman And makes wild spells redundant.

Or natural spell.

Whichever.

Beast spells.*

Miniman

@Skyler Hmmm. That's a bit different.

I guess my first question would be - if she just wants a basic attack, why not use the eagle's?

LegendaryDude

@Miniman Esp. since giant eagle has multiattack, 1d6+3 and 2d6+3

nitsua60

@Miniman range was specified, IIRC

Miniman

@LegendaryDude Yeah, exactly.

Skyler

she probably could, she kind of just asked cuz of character, this is the second day of dnd this person has played

Miniman

00:18

@nitsua60 So, if a player is looking for resource-free flight + ranged attack, personally, I'm not going to just give that away.

nitsua60

@Miniman no argument from me =)

Skyler

we made a policy of levelling up players so they dont die right away earlier in the campaign

Miniman

@Skyler Good policy :)

Skyler

but this is their first experience in tabletop all together so i dont get the impression of min maxing

Miniman

@nitsua60 I've actually been a player in a similar situation - we found about 100 zombies, so the Druid Wild Shaped into the Giant Eagle and took the Warlock on his back. We got through about 20 rounds of "I Eldritch Blast another zombie" before we fast-forwarded.

It was incredibly dull.

Skyler

00:21

to be fair, when im not DM im probably the closest to min maxing

Shalvenay

@Miniman yeah -- close air support isn't exactly the sexiest job on the planet :P

Skyler

but more like utility min maxing

Miniman

@Shalvenay No, I was a different player, standing off to the side with nothing to do, waiting for the Warlock to kill off all the zombies one Eldritch Blast at a time.

Shalvenay

especially with dumb ol' zombies for the enemy.

@Miniman oh.

ACuriousMind

@Miniman ...I surely hope your GM didn't intend for you to fight 100 zombies in such a dull way

Skyler

00:24

btw guys, do versatile weapons count for great weapon master

Miniman

@ACuriousMind I suspect we were meant to avoid them - much more horror movie than combat encounter.

Shalvenay

@Miniman zombie plinking. :P

Miniman

@Skyler Sorry, I was thinking of Great Weapon Fighting. Great Weapon Master requires a Heavy weapon.

Skyler

he's a warlock, why didnt he just use a boomy spell he could regen after combat

Miniman

Although the cleave effect works with any weapon.

Shalvenay

00:26

@Skyler especially with an aerial platform to deploy it from

ACuriousMind

@Miniman Eh, unless you've set up a horror atmosphere, I'd never expect players to run instead of try and fight

Miniman

@Skyler We were shepherding resources pretty carefully, it was very much an endurance slog.

Shalvenay

ah.

"So this is what the First Gulf War must have been like..."

ACuriousMind

Especially not against something comparatively unthreatening like zombies

Skyler

btw guys, how good would you consider the weakest instrument of the bard, level-wise

Miniman

00:29

@Skyler Which one do you consider the weakest?

Skyler

i guess one of the least rare, let me bring the list up

lets say something like the fochlucan bandore

same question, but for the canaith mandolin as well

Miniman

Ok. And what does "level-wise" mean?

Skyler

what is the lowest level you could give a player one of those and its not really unbalanced

Karelzarath

@Miniman Someone who doesn't spend their levels foolishly.

Miniman

@Karelzarath Nice.

@Skyler 5th, pretty fundamentally.

Since it lets you cast 3rd level spells, it's really unbalanced if a player gets it before the party has access to 3rd-level spells.

But personally, I wouldn't actually give it to the party until 7th level.

Skyler

00:36

i wanted to give a slightly stripped down version of this to my bardarian

maybe remove invisibility and fly, but instead its unbreakable and serves as a d10 heavy weapon,
guitar of power (metal)

Miniman

When 3rd-level spells are the peak of power, giving them something that lets them cast them takes away from the impact. Once 4th level spells are in play, and 3rd level spells are no longer a big deal, an item that lets you cast 3rd level spells is just a slight resource boost.

Skyler

so he's not a high level bard

only a couple of levels

bard dropout basically

Miniman

It's not about his level - it's about the level of your spellcasters.

Skyler

@Miniman great, thats kind of what i was thinking too

just wanted to see if i was emphasizing the important thing

Shalvenay

hey there @daze413

Miniman

00:42

@Skyler It's worth pointing out, the exact opposite argument is also worth thinking about. Magic items are supposed to be a big deal, so giving one that only does stuff they can already do anyway means it doesn't have much impact.

daze413

@Shalvenay heya!

Shalvenay

how're things going?

daze413

@Skyler Make him helicopter headbang the whole duration while casting concentration spells.

nitsua60

@anang btw, you should know that
"The End of the Tour," "She's an Angel," "O, Do Not Forsake Me," "Spiraling Shape," "First Kiss," "New York City," "Women and Men," "They'll Need a Crane," "Dead," "She Was a Hotel Detective (Disco Remix)," "Experimental Film," "Man, It's So Loud in Here," "The Bells Are Ringing," "Birdhouse in Your Soul," "Exquisite Dead Guy," "Mrs. Train," "House at the Top of a Tree," "Sleeping in the Flowers," "Happy Doesn't Have to Have an Ending," and, oh, "Ana Ng"
are all in heavy rotation for bedtime songs in the nitsua-house.

ana ng

what is the nitsua house?

daze413

00:46

@Shalvenay So so. Looking forward to just chilling at home this evening. And tomorrow we play with IRL friends, another totally different group delves into the darkest dungeon

Skyler

I also gave my rogue an immovable rod just to see what he does with it

daze413

@anang Primarily made of sheep bone (mostly skulls) and wool, the nitsua-house is rumored to be haunted. I'll stop there, pick up tomorrow.

ACuriousMind

@Skyler lol, that's on par with "I wonder what this big red button does" ;)

Adeptus

@Shalvenay "Mounting the bird" sounds like a euphemism...

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind don't you know that big red buttons are reserved for e-stops?

Skyler

00:48

@Adeptus oh god

that came up yesterday

nitsua60

@anang Well, if my name were Smith I'd say "the Smith house" to refer to my home. My name's not "nitsua," but that's as close as most of you'll get. IOW, when I sing bedtime-songs to my kids (like I just did), often one of those ^^ is chosen.

Skyler

the druid (a female) said to the rest of group right after turning into a giant eagle, "alright, who is ready to mount me and do some damage"

ಠ_ಠ

Shalvenay

harhar

ana ng

@Skyler rofl

Skyler

unironically, and then realized why everybody was laughing

Karelzarath

00:52

@nitsua60 Is it... Austin?

nitsua60

@Karelzarath [shhhhh... no one'll ever figure out that code]

daze413

@Skyler If I were to DM this, I'd point out that you can't speak while wild shaped. All you hear is a slightly lewd squawk

2

ACuriousMind

@daze413 ...which would then trigger a lengthy debate about how, exactly, a squawk can be lewd

At least at my tables :P

Karelzarath

It's all about tone.

daze413

an insight check reveals that the eagle is winking

ACuriousMind

00:54

nice

nitsua60

@daze413 passive insight, you mean.

=)

ACuriousMind

Well, maybe the squawk sounded odd so they're actively...investigating the eagle?

daze413

@nitsua60 oh, no no, my players will actively look for hidden double-meanings in all my lady NPCs

Karelzarath

I figure the eagle just looked like this

nitsua60

@daze413 touché.

Shalvenay

00:56

@daze413 it sounds like they need a salty old half-orc (or full-orc, even, in my 'verse) knightess-turned-lawyer to straighten them up

daze413

The ones who fail the insight check becomes 'that guy' in the group who just doesn't get it, and you have to explain it to him.

Karelzarath

@daze413 "Oooooh, I get it! French class!"

nitsua60

(didn't at the time, though)

(and by "the time" I mean "when I saw it on the big screen", not "twenty seconds ago")

trogdor

when did you see what on the big screen?

Karelzarath

At a guess, 1989

nitsua60

01:03

@Karelzarath Yeah, some time around then. Lets see, Rick Moranis was bankable, the boyfriend had a button-down shirt tucked into tight jeans with a popped collar... certainly the right decade =)

(Or was that the daughter? They get a little fuzzy in memory.)

@trogdor the referent of "Oooooh, I get it! French class!"

trogdor

@nitsua60 ooooh

nitsua60

French class!

trogdor

see, I was half expecting you were getting meta and mentioning like, the reference in "The Avengers"

ACuriousMind

@nitsua60 ...you confuse your boyfriend with your daughter in your memories?

Karelzarath

@ACuriousMind Don't be hating on femboys.

trogdor

01:06

@ACuriousMind I think he is talking about characters in a movie

ACuriousMind

@Karelzarath I'm more worried about the incestuous implication there :P

ana ng

@ACuriousMind LOL

Karelzarath

Also, for the curious, here's the scene in question.

nitsua60

@ACuriousMind I'm mixed up. I blame it on this girl being the cute one in French class. (cc:@Karelzarath, cause this joke's making some pretty-big circuits at this point.)

ana ng

@Karelzarath I watched that movie and I do not remember it ending with that ridiculous scene.

daze413

01:07

@nitsua60 Dem eyes though

Karelzarath

@anang Yep. It's a callback to the very beginning of the movie.

nitsua60

@Karelzarath That kid still got the joke years before I did =\

Karelzarath

@nitsua60 In fairness, they did write it out for him.

ACuriousMind

@Karelzarath Ohhh, I fear that movie is a bit too old for my cultural reference frame :)

nitsua60

@Miniman (or other 5e experts) can you sanity-check my rejection of this edit? It seemed to me that the suggester didn't grok the distinction being made between attack and Attack.

ACuriousMind

01:30

I have to ask - why is this room tagged jeff?

7

trogdor

someone was making a joke

one I assume required some context

ACuriousMind

Very good assumption you've got there! :)

Karelzarath

@ACuriousMind I'm kinda surprised you didn't hear. Huh.

trogdor

@ACuriousMind I may have been privy to said context at one point

Adeptus

Dec 1 '16 at 10:35, by doppelgreener

something is weird with my site shortcuts in my browser:

trogdor

01:32

I have seen the tag mentioned before but cannot remember the story I might have heard about it

Adeptus

Dec 1 '16 at 10:36, by doppelgreener

trogdor

@Adeptus ah, yes there we go

memory jogged now

ACuriousMind

@Adeptus Ahaha, I see

Miniman

01:49

@nitsua60 Definitely the right call.

nitsua60

@Miniman thx. I rarely reject, so I just wanted to be sure.

Joel Harmon

@nitsua60 popular ones around here is "Diggy Diggy Hole" from dad and "Bohemian Rhapsody" from mom

nitsua60

@JoelHarmon Yay, Joel! How's your... what're we... about 2 mo. in?

"Waltzing Matilda" was my go-to for infants.

ana ng

"There's continuing ground for serious concern and the situation remains serious. The longer it remains serious, the more ground there is for serious concern." - Defense Secretary Casper Weinberger 1984

Joel Harmon

@nitsua60 Ah, a bit more than that. Suffice to say, time flies.

and everyone around here is healthy, but currently there is growing dissent around the Bottle situation

nitsua60

02:03

(hmm... this is starting to get personal) I'll just wish you luck with that! Glad to hear everyone's healthy. Is day care in your near future, or are one/both of you able to take a long time at home?

Miniman

@nitsua60 I usually reject, so I might be a biased opinion.

Ben

Hey guys, I asked this question a while ago (I actually forgot all about it) but it was closed for being unclear, which is fair. I have since edited it. Does it sound better? I.e. more like a question?

2

Q: Player cheating to stay alive

Ok... I understand that question title seems like it's a bit harmless, and I'm sure others have asked similar questions but I'm not entirely sure if this fits the same bill, or if it even a problem. So: to the matter at hand. One of our players is cheating - but to make it interesting, it's only...

problem-players

ana ng

@Ben I don't know anything about if the question is good or not. I would however advise you to ask yourself if you really are the only one to notice. Do you think the DM noticed too?

Ben

@anang If he has, he hasn't done anything about it. The issue is still happening 6 months later, and the tone of the game has not changed at all (we have actually had one PC death, and the player in question has not fallen below 5hp, due to some "miraculous" rolls).

ana ng

@Ben how did the group react to the PC death?

Miniman

02:13

@Ben First suggestion: put a system tag on it. Seriously, this makes a difference.

ana ng

@Ben Why do you think this is a problem? Im not asking you to list reasons why this could be a problem. What are YOUR concerns with this? Why does this bother you? Understanding why you feel that this should stop is essential to finding a good resolution.

Ben

@anang The PC was mine. It was upsetting, but couldn't be helped due to some terrible rolls. It was a trapped floor - I failed a check to jump away, then failed multiple rolls to try and save myself, and even other players attempted, but it was still not enough, and finally fell into the pit of ravenous beasts.

The general reaction on the other hand was more a reaction to the rolls - no one got above a 4 on the dice.

@anang That's a good point. My concern is that it can open up the avenue to other cheating - fudging rolls in other ways to make the character better. Always passing checks, always dealing damage, never taking damage, etc. I want to try and address this before it develops.

ana ng

@Ben the group did not suffer emotionally due to the PC death?

@Ben so you are worried about an escalation in cheating that will make the game suffer in terms of enjoyment?

Joel Harmon

@Miniman a character death in D&D is not at all the same as one in Paranoia or Great Ork Gods, wherein multiple deaths per session is totally expected, or Phoenix: Dawn Command, where death is how you level and players can request it if they didn't die in session

Ben

I think I was the only one that was sad about it. Everyone else thought it was a bit of a bummer, but a lot of the players see it as an opportunity to play something else.

And yes.

ana ng

02:21

@Ben Do you understand that if you bring this up you run the risk of being accused of jealousy because your character died while the cheater's didn't? And do you understand that others may think this is an act of revenge because the cheater didn't cheat to save you?

Ben

As for the system - it's numenera.

Shalvenay

@JoelHarmon mind telling me more about the latter game btw?

Joel Harmon

@nitsua60 the dissent was more of the "why isn't this happening yet" variety, and very vocal expression of the sentiment

@Shalvenay about Phoenix?

Shalvenay

@JoelHarmon yes

Ben

@anang Yes, I do realise that this has become even more delicate because of that. I'll edit the question to include this, because it is important info.

Joel Harmon

02:24

it's a kickstarter game that @Reibello got. It's a deck builder rpg; your character sheet is your deck, and you have some limited options to add/remove from it through the game. In the world, sometimes when people die they can come back as a Phoenix. The in-game saying is "Your first life is yours. The rest belong to the Empire." Any time you die again, you come back stronger, until the seventh (final) death.

ana ng

@Ben Some people think rules should be followed because of principle. Others think rules should be followed as a means to a better end. You seem to be the second kind of person. You are worried about the fun of the game, not its integrity/fairness. Keep this in mind when pursuing a resolution.

@Ben I suggest you edit your question to reflect this. Your concern is not fairness. It is fun for the group including yourself (unless I'm mistaken).

Joel Harmon

Interesting world building includes one-way teleportation from the Phoenix command center to its various outposts, a song-plague that spreads by hearing it and causes you to rampage violently, and an innate psychic connection to the other people in your Wing (the team)

ana ng

@Ben Still there?

Ben

@anang Yep, just added the things we spoke about.

ana ng

@Ben Now I don't do tabletop games so I have to ask are you sure the game's fun will suffer if cheating escalates?

ACuriousMind

02:33

I'd think players cheating in an RPG always is a symptom that something is dysfunctional. The players shouldn't feel the need to cheat

nitsua60

@ACuriousMind I.e. cheating doesn't mean that fun will suffer, but cheating means that fun already suffers?

Ben

@anang Personally, yes. I have known the whole party for many years, even before we started playing RP games together, and we all do feel the same way about cheats. It spoils the challenge, and ruins the game.

ACuriousMind

@nitsua60 Exactly

Ben

@ACuriousMind hence why I mentioned the DM's practice as well.

ana ng

@Ben You think the cheating friend feels the same way but is still compelled to cheat?

Ben

02:35

I do understand why he does it, and he does it well. He has no intention of killing PCs - if a PC dies, it's up to the dice. He's very good at managing challenges and such, which is why he likes to "play to the edge" as it were.

Joel Harmon

@Ben Apparently one of you doesn't, or doesn't feel it that strongly

Ben

@JoelHarmon An opponent that cheats is one, thing, but turning on a cheat saying that you don't die - but can still have deteriorating effects applied, its a bit of a different situation.

ACuriousMind

@Ben There's two types of "pushing players to the edge": Pushing them there because you want to see them succeed, eventually, and have an awesome story to tell, or because you want them to fail, out of a "It's the players vs. the GM" mantality. And the third type, "we just do exactly what the dice say", which just strikes me as boring, but if everyone's on board with that, okay :P

ana ng

@Ben @JoelHarmon emotional attachment can make people do these they believe are wrong. Which is why it is important to ask if the cheating friend has previously exhibited an attitude that cheating harms fun or not.

Joel Harmon

also, Ben, it may help you to explicitly address Korvin's comment to avoid duplicate answers

Ben

02:39

For example, in Numenera, there are 3 stat pools that make up your health. If one is depleted the player is "Impaired" meaning they cannot Crit, movment is slowed, etc. If another stat pool is depleted, they are "debilitated", effectively leaving them at the mercy of the dice (all they can do is crawl, effectively).

The player is still willing to accept these effects - they just don't want to die

ACuriousMind

The awesome story can also be one where the character died, btw. I had a player fail a crucial roll, and I declared he dropped the Awesome Sword of Doom (TM) but made it through the portal to safety. He declined, asking to stumble and fall, barely getting the sword through the portal to the rest of the group, then being devoured by the pursuing demons.

One of the most satisfying PC deaths I've had.

ana ng

@Ben you said the cheating got more aggressive. Why is that? Is it because the PC just happened to fall into risky situations again and again? Or do you think your friend got more gutsy and intentionally took on bigger risks because he/she could just cheat his/her way out of it?

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind -- or you can have characters for which dying is pretty much purely an economic choice :P

Joel Harmon

I'd first suggest looking into things in the vein of Angy's 8 kinds of fun, so you can better empathize with the player. Second involves an open discussion with all its implicit social awkwardness. Third would be to suggest , depending on how #1 went, switching to a system like Fate wherein the PC can only die with the player's consent.

ACuriousMind

@Shalvenay Not sure I'm getting you - because you're playing somewhere where raising the dead is just an economic hit?

Shalvenay

02:43

@ACuriousMind yeah, or at least can be seen that way

ACuriousMind

I have no experience playing in such a setting

Joel Harmon

@ACuriousMind alternately, your character didn't die, it was just some kind of avatar. I believe some systems in the cyberpunk theme use things like that.

Shalvenay

I think the bigger problem with me and character attachment is not characters that simply don't die, its characters for which death is at most an economic matter and can even be almost entirely...insignificant

Ben

@anang The first one - they are not being risky at all, and are only cheating when they are in danger of falling low on HP.

ACuriousMind

@Shalvenay Then what's their stake? Do they have anything that makes adventuring actually exciting?

ana ng

02:46

@Ben So there is no reason to think the issue will escalate other than that it might.

Ben

@ACuriousMind Death makes life exciting for some.

@anang yes. I don't know if it would, I just don't want it to.

ana ng

@Ben How much do you think the game's fun is suffering as a result of the current amount and type of cheating

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind do you mean "why do they adventure?"

ACuriousMind

@JoelHarmon Ah, I've played in a homebrew (fantasy, not cyberpunk) system where dying was the only way to progress in certain character areas - but it also has drawbacks, of course. I think the point is less whether you really "die" or not but that it has to be some stake - what's risky about risky actions if death is insignificant?

Joel Harmon

@ACuriousMind you can do things that are socially or economically risky, certainly

ACuriousMind

02:50

@Shalvenay Yeah. I tend to see most player characters inherently as thrill-seekers and danger-defyers - they do risky, dangerous stuff that most others couldn't and wouldn't do. If death is cheap, then what makes them exceptional?

Ben

@anang Currently, not a lot. I mean, personally right now it's just bugging me, because of the potential, but if it develops, it's going to go downhill pretty fast

Shalvenay

@ACuriousMind capability and mindset

ana ng

@Ben do you think resolving the issue with a desirable outcome will become more difficult if the cheating escalates?

Joel Harmon

@ACuriousMind let me put on my BESW hat and recommend you look into Bubblegumshoe, a system about teen detectives wherein relationships are among the strongest mechanics in the game (disclaimer: I haven't actually played, only perused the rules and heard it talked about, so any errors are of course my own)

ACuriousMind

@JoelHarmon Ah, yes, you can - but that generates very different games from the "standard" fare

nitsua60

02:52

@Shalvenay this

ACuriousMind

I agree that you can run interesting games where the major danger is not death or being maimed, no question there

Ben

@anang I'm not sure what you mean - could you rephrase the question?

ana ng

@Ben let's suppose you don't do anything and let this slide. let's also suppose the problem "goes downhill pretty fast" as you put it. If you decide to deal with this problem after it escalates do you think fixing it without damaging friendship will be harder (in relation to trying to fix it before it escalates).

@Ben If the cheating does go downhill will it be harder to fix it? Do you think it is easier to fix the problem now rather than later?

Ben

I think so. Right now, the issue is harmless, so there's a far lower level of "accusation". Just "not dying" is a far lighter issue than playing in "god mode", and ruining the game for everybody.

ana ng

@Ben Who would it be harder on? You or the cheater?

Ben

03:00

That is, I don't think they (the cheater) will feel as confronted if we talk about it now.

ana ng

@Ben What is more important to you? Avoiding trouble directed at yourself or trouble directed at the cheater?

Ben

I don't want to avoid any trouble. I know where I stand in all of this, and I understand what my position looks like.

ana ng

@Ben One thing is for absolute certain. It is a MISTAKE to confront anyone before confronting the cheater first (and without anybody else knowing).

@Ben so you are willing to put yourself at risk before the cheater then. Correct?

Ben

@anang If that's the best way to do it, yes.

ana ng

@Ben you owe it to your friend to confront him/her privately. Try to fix this without involving ANYBODY else.

Ben

03:06

I want everyone to be comfortable, not feel like it's unfair, or anything like that.

ana ng

@Ben Nobody will feel like anything was unfair if they don't ever find out. That is why it is important to confront the cheater first.

@Ben Outing your friend in front of anybody else has HUGE potential to damage friendship. You must first confront the cheating friend.

Joel Harmon

@Ben seems it's too late; you're uncomfortable and don't think this is fair.

Ben

So, after all this, should the question be re-opened?

ana ng

@Ben If you have the guts to confront your friend in front of everyone or even just the DM then you have the guts to confront your friend along.

@Ben there is no point in making plans for the future until you take this first step.

So I would advise you to keep the question closed. If the private meeting with your friend fails then reopen it. Your next plan of action will depend heavily on how this first step goes. We cannot predict the future. There is no point in fretting over "what next?" until the first step is taken.

Ben

Yeah. You have answered the question for me, and thankyou for the advice. I'll think about what I should say, because, with my involvement in this, as well as the issue of cheating, are very sensitive issues, so this still does need to be thought out a bit more.

ana ng

03:12

Do your absolute best to resolve the entire issue privately with your friend so you don't have to take any further steps.

I disagree with @JoelHarmon about it being too late. It will only be too late if you out him in front of everyone @Ben before trying better options.

@Ben PM me if you need further advice :)

Ben

However, the question I feel, while relevant to a very specific situation, could be useful to other people (I.e. the upvotes the question has already received). A question can still be answered with useful information, regardless of whether or not it helped me.

ana ng

@Ben you make a good point

@Ben In that case update your question. I will give you an answer containing my suggestion. Do not accept it until the issue is completely resolved.

Joel Harmon

@anang Ben said "I want everyone to be comfortable, not feel like it's unfair", after a half hour discussion of how someone's unfair actions are making him uncomfortable. It's too late for no one to be uncomfortable, and thus he should act to move the discomfort back to its source.

ana ng

@JoelHarmon his friendship is worth more than that. Temporary discomfort is nothing compared to friendship that is permanently damaged.

Ben

@JoelHarmon That's just semantics, I think. The issue has made me feel uncomfortable, yes. And the issue has been created due to the player being uncomfortable. But dealing with this is going to be a separate issue.

Joel Harmon

03:29

well, good luck with the whole thing. I'm heading out.

Adeptus

@Shalvenay This reminds me of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, where Hotblack Desiato spends a year dead for tax reasons

Shalvenay

@Adeptus LOL

ana ng

@Ben I'm going to head out for now. Be back later.

Ben

@anang No worries. Thanks again

Shalvenay

hey there @ThomasWard

The Oracle

05:41

1

Q: How can Community improve edit suggestions?

So, when looking as an edit review for a thing I posted I noticed this line: Community has approved 545 edit suggestions and rejected 123 edit suggestions and improved 1 edit suggestion This is referring to the Community bot account that's used to help out in various automatic ways around t...

discussion editing community

Skyler

06:28

hey guys, anybody ever run any cool plotlines where you had a dragon that had transformed into a humanoid and did stuff with the party

ideally ill reveal it at later point, though i want to make this dragon someone who they will be very unwilling to try and attack even prior to that.

First idea I'm coming up with is that the PCs get invited to an overnight stay at a curiosity shop/auction house with an anti-magic field that turns into a murder mystery, the dragon, having truesight for ~120ft or something like that knows who did it but cant/doesnt feel like they need to point out the real person responsible, maybe might provide the party with clues to find the right party responsible

Skyler

07:19

btw guys, really strong legalese in rules i just found for sorcerer
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which *you have spell slots*.
You can take a level as sorcerer, multiclass as something else, and then at lvl 19/20/whatever come back and do one more sorcerer level and replace those with much higher level spells

Patta

Yea, but is that worth it for one single spell?

Skyler

@Patta the way i was reading it is like you pick one, swap, pick one swap

like the one indicates its a one for one swap

rather than once per level

Miniman

@Skyler We have a question about this.

Skyler

@Miniman well theres always someone who thinks of whatever you are thinking of

link?

Miniman

Sorry, was just hunting it up. On mobile so it's tricky.

18

Q: Can a multiclass Wizard use any Wizard spell?

The Wizard includes the following feature: Copying a Spell into the Book. When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it. Does this mean that a Wiz...

spells dnd-5e wizard multi-classing

Patta

07:46

@Skyler "when you gain a level in this class, you can choose ONE of ..." - pretty clear for me

Adam

12:40

@Skyler If this is at all like the 5e multiclassing rules for the other classes, we could assume that "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class" applies here. That is, you would be swapping out the spell known as if you were only a level 2 sorcerer.

LegendaryDude

@Adam This.

I thought I could do the same thing with sorcerer until I asked here. My question ended up being a duplicate of the one @Miniman linked.

Miniman

@LegendaryDude Yeah, I was deeply saddened to discover I couldn't be a Cleric with full access to the Wizard spell list.

Adam

@Miniman Check out the Wizard unearthed arcana

With that, you can be

Miniman

Well, that would be a wizard with full access to the Cleric spell list. Very different.

Also, it's completely unbalanced and just kinda stupid.

Adam

Yeah, I absolutely hate the theurgist. One because it's totally uninspired. And two because Why the heck would a wizard get his capstone abilities faster than a full fledged cleric

Why they think "You're a wizard! except we'll just replace every arcane tradition feature with a cleric domain feature and give you a channel divinity to boot!" is a good model for a class, I'll never know

"his capstone" being "The same capstone as a full cleric"

Miniman

12:51

Well, it's the same thing as the Favored Soul.

They don't want to add new base classes, and they don't want to add prestige classes.

So they're trying to squeeze concepts in as subclasses that just don't work as subclasses.

Adam

The mystic is a new base class. Though, that was because it's psionic. I think they really want to avoid making separate classes that are effectively "wizard with undead minions, wizard with divine power, wizard who is also kind of a druid, wizard who is..."

Miniman

@Adam The mystic is another great example of the same thing, actually. "Let's add psionics!" "But we don't want to add new base classes if we can avoid it, so let's make one psionic base class and try to make it fit every possible concept using subclasses."

Don't get me wrong, btw - I actually really like subclasses.

Adam

I think that's a bit commendable actually. There are a lot of situations where that doesn't work, for sure. But it also prevents a lot of bloat with multiple base classes that are all basically the same thing, which then would've just been differentiated with sub-classes anyway

Miniman

I just think that they're trying to use them to do things that they just aren't suited for.

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