TRPG General Chat

daze413

14:34

That was really something. Took him about 6 months to answer but it was great. Now I lie to my players all the time :D

doppelgreener

> NCIS hacking. Any number of people can help you use the same computer, as long as they can fit around it.

nitsua60

@Ben In my experience CR is useful for calculating expected encounter difficulty ahead of time, so that my descriptions are fair to the players. Other than that, it's overwhelmed by player tactics, GM tactics, and GM setup (terrain, lighting, &c.)

doppelgreener

reference:

NCIS 2 IDIOTS 1 KEYBOARD

►

for those unfamiliar with computer keyboards: it's generally not helpful for two people to be using the same one. also, congratulations on using chat so effectively, that's remarkable!

nitsua60

@LegendaryDude "Our own daze413"... is that "our very own @Magician"'s cousin? Or were they just both named for the same celebrity?

LegendaryDude

@nitsua60 Yep. A bandit captain is a deadly encounter for a party of level 1 PCs but in practice it's... really not.

nitsua60

14:38

@doppelgreener false: they're using a Dvorak keyboard. Makes all the difference.

=D

Miniman

@nitsua60 Did you know that if you type randomly on a Dvorak keyboard you get accurate predictions of the future?

nitsua60

@LegendaryDude Whereas I'll pit a dozen CR1 and a battlefield of my own design against four L8 PCs any time.

Aaron

Dvorak keyboard?

nitsua60

@Miniman I didn't! And I only type randomly on Dvorak! [rummages for .asv files]

Dvorak Simplified Keyboard

The Dvorak Simplified Keyboard (/ˈdvɔːræk, dəˈvɔː-/ d-VOR-ak) is a keyboard layout patented in 1936 by Dr. August Dvorak and his brother-in-law, Dr. William Dealey. Several modifications have since been designed by the team led by Dvorak or by ANSI. These variations have been collectively or individually called the Simplified Keyboard or American Simplified Keyboard, but they all have come to be commonly known as the Dvorak keyboard or Dvorak layout. Dvorak proponents claim the layout requires less finger motion and reduces errors compared to the standard layout, the QWERTY keyboard. It is claimed...

doppelgreener

> DVORAK hacking. You can do inexplicable techno-wizardry with any device as long as you're using a DVORAK keyboard layout to control it.

Miniman

14:41

@Aaron An ancient tool of the occult, used by mystic sages to perform otherwise impossible feats.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener +1 if humming a task-appropriate Dvorak tune.

@Miniman Like a reverse-Polish-notation calculator.

Erik

Ugh. Hollywood hacking, so ridiculous.

Magician

@nitsua60 The old man OVO, we call him.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Or a VCR recorder.

nitsua60

@Miniman Or an optical drive.

LegendaryDude

14:42

@Miniman Sounds like technomancy to me.

nitsua60

(dating myself, here)

Aaron

Interesting.

nitsua60

re: questions like this... can we just implement a custom close-reason: "light just doesn't work in D&D--never has--so stop asking about it"?

Miniman

@nitsua60 Is there a meaning to that I'm not aware of? I wouldn't have said it was a dated reference.

Erik

We could start by closing the question for being unclear.

nitsua60

14:44

@Miniman No, just that I teach high school and have gotten to the point where my students no longer have the hardware to give me large amounts of files in the medium I requested... =\

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 In D&D, light is magical in a whole other sense of the word.

Erik

You still request physical copies of their files?

Miniman

@nitsua60 Ah, I remember the terrible time between floppy drives and thumb drives. Rewritable CDs were just the worst.

nitsua60

@Erik I ask each class to create me a "mix-tape."

3

@Miniman C'mon, who didn't love ZIP disks?

Miniman

@nitsua60 See, that's a dated reference :P

LegendaryDude

14:47

I had a teacher in college who required 5 different physical copies of every assignment. A CD, a back-up CD, a ZIP disk (hahahahaha), a flash drive, and a printed hard-copy (this was for a graphic design course).

doppelgreener

in the future, children will see a floppy disk and say "hey, that looks like the save icon!"

Erik

Hahaha

You think that hasn't happened yet.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener "Save," "open," "paste," ...

Miniman

@nitsua60 This is totally a thing I have heard of before >.>

LegendaryDude

The 'paste' icon is literally a jar of paste.

But, like, an old style jar of paste that isn't common anymore.

diego

14:49

@doppelgreener I've seen images of a floppy disk with a caption along the lines of 'Look, someone 3D printed a save icon'

doppelgreener

@diego haaaa, fabulous

nitsua60

@Miniman I do have to explain the idea to them, then they make up a list that's, like, two-hundred songs long and come back to me asking what to do, and I explain again. "Ohhh... we have to pick fifteen that'll fit!"

diego

I think they were joking, but I'm not 100% sure...

Erik

I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years most people wouldn't even recognize a mouse anymore

Miniman

@Erik Yeah, I'm calling BS on that one - every other method of controlling a computer that we've come up with so far just sucks in comparison.

LegendaryDude

14:50

@Miniman Ordinarily I would agree but the glass touch pad on the Surface Pro keyboard is pretty amazing. And I really do hate touch pads.

Erik

Yeah - but who uses a computer anymore? I work in web-dev and we have to build everything for phones because the majority of visitors don't use a desktop anymore

nitsua60

@Erik Mechanical design isn't going away, and nothing beats SolidWorks/Autodesk with a seven-button mouse in one hand and 3d mouse in the other.

Erik

The actual computer is rapidly moving towards something that's used in the office and by copmuter nerds, not by regular dudes who just want to surf the web

I'm sure there'll still be mice, but I doubt most non-tech people will be very familiar with them.

doppelgreener

@Erik are they people who don't use a desktop, or are they just people who use a desktop but don't use it to access your site (proportionately)?

LegendaryDude

PCs will always have a place in business until there is a synergisitic paradigm shift buzzword soup.

Erik

14:53

It's not specific to our site; it's visible across the entire web

doppelgreener

there's a site i'm on where i spend 90% of my time there from my phone, simply because i'm not at home for that period. the fact i can do this contributes heavily to the reason i use the site at all.

(in fact if the site didn't support phones i suspect i would've barely even used it)

@Erik sure, but there's a difference between "doesn't use a desktop or know how to use one" and "uses other devices to access your site most/all of the time"

nitsua60

@LegendaryDude Mine's a depiction of a clipboard.

Erik

Sure there is, that's why I'm giving it a few more years before the desktop really fades.

We're currently at 50% of overall web traffic coming from phones
https://www.statista.com/statistics/241462/global-mobile-phone-website-traffic-share/

doppelgreener

i don't think the desktop will ever fade.

it can do things tablets and phones just won't do, or won't handle well.

LegendaryDude

@nitsua60 Ah, yeah, there's that version too. I guess I've seen both and now that I think of it the clipboard version is probably the more popular one.

Erik

14:56

I didn't think the DVD would fade quicklt either, but it seems to be dying anyway.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener yeah... given what ingenious things software developers can do with more and more horsepower...

Erik

The desktop won't vanish, but it'll be more and more a specialized tool for IT guys and not something everyone has and knows how to use. I think most people will just use a phone, tablet and/or smart tv instead.

nitsua60

It seems to me that the computer ecosystem is just finding its appropriate equilibrium: 50% of computer buyers are no longer buying something (desktop PC) that's designed to do 10x what they're going to ask of it.

@Erik s/"most people"/"people who just want to surf, watch, post, and communicate" and you'll have me.

I just don't have a good sense of what proportion that group I describe is.

doppelgreener

@Erik the DVD has reasons why it's losing market share to blu-rays, and there are also reasons why my local HMV stocks majority DVDs for its films and TV series. there are reasons for mobile phone usage to increase proportionate to desktops, but there's no reason for desktops to fade out of usage.

Erik

I didn't mean the DVD dying as in "being replaced" but as in really just "discs containing data going away entirely"

LegendaryDude

14:59

Desktops likely won't fade out of usage, they'll just come to more closely resemble tablets and phones.

nitsua60

@Erik I have a brother who's not a tech-guy at all, but running his own business means he's always going to keep a desktop because Excel and QuickBooks and tax software are so much easier with a monitor, with a keyboard, and are only used sitting at a desk with paperwork and phone handy anyway.

doppelgreener

@Erik but... it isn't?

"relative market share is lowering" is different to "fading out of usage"

in particular, because usage can stay the same while the market grows to include new things

LegendaryDude

Consider that NASA still uses 8086 chips in their rockets. Hardware never dies!

Erik

They aren't? I haven't bought a DVD or alternative in years. I explicitly added a DVD-reader to my new pc, but have never used it so far.

doppelgreener

@Erik observe your local DVD shop, and that it exists, and stocks a tremendous number of DVDs.

Erik

15:02

I mean; I'm sure you can still buy and use floppies if you REALLY want to, but I think we all agree they're dead.

Actually most of the DVD shops in my area are bankrupt.

Miniman

@doppelgreener Or just go to your parent's house.

doppelgreener

If i'm on my computer 1 hour a day, and then i get a phone, and i'm on that 2 hours a day while i'm out and about, computer market share has gone from 100% to 33%. i'm still not using my computer any less, I'm just using something else more. This kind of phenomena happening on a massive scale is what causes the mobile usage statistics we're observing on the 'net.

nitsua60

@LegendaryDude I had to re-learn FORTRAN to work at the Space Telescope Science Institute!

Erik

There's some bookstores that still have a few DVDs for sale

LegendaryDude

@Erik The Pentagon still uses 8" floppy disk drives.

nitsua60

15:03

@doppelgreener Same here: I don't own any fewer PCs than I have for the last twenty years. But I own a bunch of other stuff....

doppelgreener

Overall, an analogous comparison to DVDs and storage mediums is only an analogous comparison. As with all analogies, the analogy breaks down at some point. That various storage mediums have been replaced or gone into specialty usage or died out of usage doesn't necessarily indicate anything about a different phenomenon.

nitsua60

@LegendaryDude That's for security, though. When hacking from abroad you won't have access to pull the disk out and put it in the three or four times necessary for proper functionality =)

Erik

It seems though that right now, external storage mediums are being replaced mostly by just pulling things from the internet

I don't see any reason to buy a physical copy of something other than for it's collector value

nitsua60

In other news, dug about 20' of snow tunnels for the kids this morning. (Call it Minecraft 2.0.) Things learned:

Aaron

I think the thing you are missing @Erik is that people are indeed doing these other things more but that doesn't mean they are doing the original things any less. I think that is what the others are trying to say.

LegendaryDude

15:07

In general, early computers operated on a mainframe which you connected to via terminal. Then due to increased miniaturization and the popularity of the 8086 chip, computerization moved to discrete computer units while mainframes stayed popular with businesses, gov't applications, and universities.

doppelgreener

@Erik I can't buy a decent digital copy of Juno. I also can't bring it around to my friend's house. I can buy a DVD of it for £10 and bring it around to my friend's house to watch it with them.

@Aaron Yes.

LegendaryDude

I find it interesting the trend has switched back to a centralized sort of system but with processing now shared between "terminal" and "mainframe."

nitsua60

(1) Anyone who makes perfectly straight and square tunnels is putting way too much effort into it. (I'm looking at you, dwarves!)

Erik

@doppelgreener I could probably stream it directly from the web

nitsua60

(2) If your tunnels aren't perfectly straight and square, no way you'll get them to connect properly.

Erik

15:08

I might not be able to "buy" it, but that is a different issue.

Aaron

@Erik You have a desktop sitting connected to your livingroom TV?

doppelgreener

@Erik Sure. If you find the right service. And pay monthly for it. And they don't remove it. Or you pay a few pounds to "rent" a digital copy from the right service for a few days.

nitsua60

(3) (RL lesson) Anyone who digs their way out of prison, I say let them out. They've earned it.

Erik

I don't even own a tv anymore...

doppelgreener

I want a copy of it, to own, watch, and bring around with me in perpetuity. It's not a novelty or a collector's item to me.

GreySage

15:08

@doppelgreener You can bring digital copies to your friends house, on a usbdrive

Erik

Or you just connect to the piratebay

doppelgreener

@GreySage Sometimes. Maybe. If the digital copy lets me do that and they have the necessary facilities to read and play that particular file type on that particular form of storage.

nitsua60

@Erik You must live somewhere where power/data outages aren't a thing. That's nice.

diego

@Erik What happens if you don't have Internet access? Or the Internet isn't working well? (I know in my apartmen there are times when Netflix and YouTube become almost unwatchable)

nitsua60

@LegendaryDude Yeah, the "back" part is fun/interesting.

GreySage

15:09

@doppelgreener But thats no different than your friend not having a dvd player

Erik

I can't remember the last time the internet was being an issue for more than 5 minutes.

nitsua60

@Erik That's nice. For you.

doppelgreener

@Erik OK, but bringing up movie piracy is taking this conversation on an enormous tangent away from its original point, which was: "are people going to use desktop PCs less and their usage fade into technical speciality circles?"

Erik

Yeah - I might be a few years into the future in terms of stability; that just means it might take another 10 years for you guys to start experiencing the same things ;)

Aaron

@Erik You're still only comparing things for yourself and making claims based on that. You need to think of other situations instead of assuming you are the norm

nitsua60

15:11

@Erik By then I'll be so old and calcified I won't be able to handle the continuous bandwidth =)

doppelgreener

Hi I lived in Australia where we have significantly limited internet speeds and facilities and I use wifi and downloads are not unlimited unless we pay an awful lot for it. I presently live in an apartment in the UK with poor-ish internet over wifi, and internet speed is regularly an issue for me.

Aaron

Most people still have TVs in their living rooms, hooked up to Playstations, DVD/Blueray players, and or Xboxs that use disks

Erik

It's not just me; it's the entire country here. I'm actually behind everyone 'cause I don't actually use a phone. But I see it everywhere here that people are rapidly moving towards using phones for everything and using the desktop less and less

doppelgreener

@Aaron Yes, @Erik, this is a major issue with the rhetoric so far. "Well this is what I do, surely it's the same for everyone else" has been how most of your statements have been working so far.

Erik

And the whole world is trying to move towards better, more stable internet connections. I'm assuming they'll get there eventually.

doppelgreener

15:12

Those kinds of generalisations don't really work if you're trying to make assertions about how the entire world is changing.

Your personal usage and situation is only reflective of the broader situation insofar as you can demonstrate it is.

nitsua60

@Erik What country? Unless "rural India" or "rural China" is your answer, then it's still not terribly-representative of "people."

Erik

I'm from Western Europe. Rural India and Rural China are actually even MORE phone focussed as far as I know

Aaron

Eh. See again the phone thing, people are using phones MORE yes. Buuuut. that doesn't mean their use of desktops and other things are LESS.

Erik

It's hard to find good stats, but this for example already shows desktops going down over time; pewinternet.org/files/old-media/…

It caps out at 2012 though

It does show laptops going up to replace them.

nitsua60

Basically, it seems to me a few things are at play: the ever-present back-and-forth flow between centralization (server-terminal) vs. distribution (PCs), the ever-present back-and-forth flow between usage-standardization of one medium/format/technology ("everyone's got a DVD player!") vs. use-personalization ("I can get a gadget that fits my use-case better").

Aaron

15:15

When I'm home I spend about 6-10 hours on my computer. Compared to last year though I use my phone a few hours more in the day but my desktop use hasn't gone down any

nitsua60

They're all equilibrium-processes, because 90% of people don't have/devote the income to be early-adopters.

doppelgreener

@Erik Desktop ownership going down because people finally have other devices they can use to do the things they need is understandable. (Bear in mind the iphone came out in 2006, the ipad in 2010, only a few years prior to those statistics.) That doesn't indicate a long-term trend that desktop usage will evaporate from the common populace.

LegendaryDude

@nitsua60 Bingo. Also consider that there are people in the US who are still on dial-up because it is literally the only internet access available to them.

Erik

The graph I linked showed ownership going down, not use.

LegendaryDude

And I'm certain that's not unique to the United States.

nitsua60

15:18

So there'll always be flux. IME currently we're seeing higher rates of fluctuation, because of the speed of broadening access and the way we're on a pretty steep part of mobile-utility's logistic curve. But it's no new phenomenon, just in an additional new direction.

LegendaryDude

Just that it's an example of places even in the developed world where access is difficult.

doppelgreener

@Erik I saw that.

[edits post to say 'desktop ownership' in the only spot necessary]

what i'm taking to task here is that an extreme assertion is being made -- that the general populace will stop using computers -- without reason why that would actually happen.

Erik

And obviously it doesn't indicate a long-term trend. It's my prediction that they will do so

Aaron

I wonder where these stats come from? It could be if they are coming from people buying premade desktops they might not be completely accurate. At least in the area I live in more people are building their own computers instead of buying premade ones. It's cheaper and you can get a better machine

nitsua60

@doppelgreener I do see reason for a claim that PC/desktop usage will recede to its "proper" level, now that those who don't really need all that power have options....

Erik

15:21

I don't know exactly where the stats are from; I was just searching for them on google.

LegendaryDude

@Aaron I doubt that is the case. Is this a sampling from people you know who are tech enthusiasts? Most people are probably buying laptops if they have PC needs.

Aaron

@Erik Yea that was just a curiosity of mine.

nitsua60

@Aaron I've got to imagine that modders/builders are a pretty-small part of the desktop market. For everyone you know who builds theirs as a hobby, think of the company where they work cycling every desktop on a three- or four-year cycle.

Aaron

@LegendaryDude Partly. I know multiple friends who are not super tech saavy that built their own computers. It could have been influence from their more techy friends though.

LegendaryDude

Even as I sit here on my custom PC with all sorts of fancy bells and whistles, and knowing that my friends also build their own PCs, I know that most people would rather drive to Best Buy and buy a $400 internet box or $700 lap warmer rather than try to build their own.

nitsua60

15:24

@LegendaryDude And I think--thought I have absolutely no data to support this--that most desktops are probably bought by companies, not by people. (Yes, Citizens United, I know companies are people, too. But they're not.)

Aaron

I need to build a new computer. Going to try formatting my current one to see if it's performance issues are fixed first though.

LegendaryDude

@nitsua60 I want to say the business cycle for new desktops is probably on a 5-year or 7-year depreciation schedule, sadly. :(

nitsua60

@LegendaryDude Whoops--I must work at a higher-cycle place, then.

CTWind

I like the process of picking out parts and stuff, but after building 3 or 4 I'm at the point where I'm more than happy to hand off said parts to a computer shop and have them assemble it & debug if there are hardware issues for a fee rather than going through the headache of doing that myself.

Aaron

If that doesn't work I have to convince the wife to let me drop some monies on a new desktop

GreySage

15:25

My wife very rarely needs a computer, when she does (for websites that don't work on mobil, or other things), I have the hardest time getting her to use my PC, even when it would objectively be better in every way.

So I can totally see a significant portion of the population moving away from 'real' computers

nitsua60

@LegendaryDude Still, even if it's seven years, that's 14% of employees' computers replaced every year. If your enthusiasts are building one every two years, they'd need to be >3% of the population to account for more than 10% of desktop purchase/existence.

GreySage

But they will never die out completely, mostly due to technical work and games

nitsua60

@GreySage this!!!

Erik

Yeah, I don't doubt that tech-work will always be done on a desktop/laptop device.

Games, I'm not so sure. I really WANT them to stay on the desktop, but they're also moving towards consoles and mobile devices a lot.

nitsua60

@GreySage (mine even has her own PC--doesn't have to use mine. But will try, frustrated, to shop on Amazon on the phone rather than open up the laptop.)

GreySage

15:27

Personally I find PCs the most comfortable, laptops and especially phones cause serious hand strain for me.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 i think that's reasonable

LegendaryDude

@nitsua60 That's true, and full "rebuild" PCs are done even less frequently. I built my current PC from all new high grade (not top of the line but close-ish) components 2 years ago; my next upgrade will extend the life of my PC at least another 2 years. I won't need to buy a "new" PC for at least 5 or 6.

GreySage

@Erik I would say that games are actually moving away from consoles to PCs, but my meta understanding of game culture is usually behind the norm

LegendaryDude

And by "buy new" I really just mean swap the motherboard and CPU for something newer.

The enthusiast market is a very different place than the generic consumer PC market.

nitsua60

@LegendaryDude Yeah, at some point you've got a computer of Theseus on your hands.

LegendaryDude

15:29

@GreySage I think the more accurate way of putting it is that game consoles and PCs are becoming more homogenized.

nitsua60

I suppose, in some sense, my PC is still the one I built in 2002.

LegendaryDude

Most indie games are developed for a PC and then are ported to one or more (all of the) consoles.

doppelgreener

LegendaryDude

Or on a console, then ported to the other consoles and PCs.

doppelgreener

(source: an nvidia survey at GDC)

nitsua60

15:30

I think the ATX cable, ribbon cables, and case might be the only original parts left.

Erik

That graph makes me happy :)

nitsua60

Some of the data's 2002, though...

Wow, ANIMORPHS-NOVEL.RTF? Just gonna, uh, go through and delete that from all my archives real quick.

doppelgreener

(note the graph is measuring absolute values from 0, not relative share of revenue. PC is earning $20b, not roughly half of a total $20b.)

Erik

At least it also shows that the gaming industry is pretty big.

LegendaryDude

@nitsua60 Glad I'm just old enough to understand every reference in that strip. gorilla.bas got me feelin' nostalgic.

nitsua60

15:39

@LegendaryDude I just want to know what the other 186MB on that ZIP disk is holding?

QBASIC is in there! I had to program my high school's robot in QBASIC =\

LegendaryDude

I would hope QBASIC is in there, or else GORILLA.BAS is useless!

nitsua60

@LegendaryDude Truey 'nuff =)

(Didn't know if any other flavors of BASIC would have used that extension.)

I used BASIC extensively on DOS2.1, but then QBASIC only for that one project during Win3.1 days.

LegendaryDude

It's possible, but gorilla.bas was a file distributed with QBASIC on MS-DOS as a demonstration of the language.

It was an artillery game (similar to Worms) where you threw explosive bananas at an enemy gorilla. The terrain was a city skyline. Bananas deformed the skyline. It was neat.

GreySage

Random tangent, any of you have experiece using x3dom?

Erik

No, but it looks quite cool.

doppelgreener

15:47

@Erik It's huge! Also, most indie game development is done for PC, and consoles either never or in addition. Since the GFC in ~2006-7, indie game development became a huge thing: lots of game studios closed (especially in Australia), leaving the world full of game developers suddenly with a lot of free time on their hands and need to earn income. Many of them just formed their own studios and started publishing games.

Nowadays as well there's an enormous number of free tools and platforms available. Unity is free and has quite affordable non-free editions, and Steam has Greenlight and other programs that allow you to sell to millions of people at a nearly negligible fee.

LegendaryDude

Unreal Engine is freemium now too.

Erik

Yeah :) I've seen the surge of Indie games. I didn't realize it was this big though, that's really awesome

doppelgreener

It really is!

There's also the Android/iPhone market, but naturally that'd grow because, yaknow, it only started to exist 10 years ago. That one also has plenty of affordable toolsets.

LegendaryDude

Just take a look at the Steam store if you want a small glimpse of what the indie game market looks like right now.

doppelgreener

Meanwhile console releases of games tend to cost at least six figures to the developer, because they have to buy licenses, development hardware, and pay the console manufacturer for the quallity assurance process.

Erik

15:50

Heh, I check it at least weekly. Some Indie games are quite excellent. (A lot are also crap, but that's to be expected)

Still waiting for the new Factorio version to be releaseed

Anne Aunyme

the fee is actually far from being negligible

but yeah, we can say it's not overpriced

doppelgreener

16:50

@AnneAunyme well i guess it can be a few hundred dollars for a relatively long project before you start making sales. but that's negligible compared to console development and release fees (which would be at least two orders of magnitude higher) and compared to, say, the sales revenue of a few hundred copies of the game.

user3450548

hello

Reibello

greetings!

user3450548

any d&d 5e players here?

Karelzarath

Tons

user3450548

:) can some skilled player suggest me if this approach is doable ? rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/96532/…

Reibello

16:55

Do you have a copy of the Basic Rules / Player's Handbook?

user3450548

Not really I mean, for some unknown reasons they don't translate it in my language

for a matter of license it seems

so I'm more playing with experienced users and learning by play

Karelzarath

Which language, out of curiosity?

user3450548

ita

Karelzarath

Ah, neat. :) My grandmother was Italian, so I have a soft spot for the language even if I can't speak a word.

user3450548

ah i see :D

ciao

any toughts on my question?

LegendaryDude

17:09

@user3450548 I'm not sure exactly what your question there is; it's not currently a good fit for the site.

Currently it's sitting at 4 close votes for being unclear.

user3450548

is pratically this

while being a rogue i can obtain a good stealth

then in the next turn i want to cast a spell

but because of the verbal and gesture content of the spell my player can be spotted

there are spells or tricks that allow me to prepare powerful arrow and shot them without being spotted during the cast ?

LegendaryDude

If you are a sorcerer you have access to the subtle spell metamagic

When you Cast a Spell, you can spend 1 sorcery point to cast it without any somatic or verbal Components.

user3450548

oh nice

my second question was.. is something that i can do being a lv5 character ?

LegendaryDude

There are no spells or classes that will give you access to magic arrows as a spell, though

user3450548

i've read a spell called flame arrows

where you can torch a quiver of arrows by contact

and the arrows do 1d6 extra damage

LegendaryDude

17:13

Oh yes, I guess there is that.

You would need to be at least level 5 in sorcerer to cast that.

user3450548

ouch

to be a sor lv 5 so i have to be at least lv 2-3 rogue and lv5 sor so i have to go up lv 8

:(

LegendaryDude

Yes, there is a cost associated with multiclassing

user3450548

i see

LegendaryDude

Any time you branch out to grab features from a class you are delaying your advancement in any other class

Opportunity cost

user3450548

instead there's a way where i can buy scrolls without have to be a lv5 sor ?

diego

17:15

That spell lasts for an hour, so what you should be doing is casting it before you need to be sneaky, and then you can use the arrows until they run out (which since you only get 1 attack/round should be 2-3 combats)

LegendaryDude

You might be able to get a scroll for that spell but it's entirely dependent on your DM.

user3450548

I see :) ok so is not that easy make a build like that

LegendaryDude

As far as I know it's the only spell that even lets you do something like that.

user3450548

I wanted to roleplay a rogue with weird arrow shooting ;p

LegendaryDude

@user3450548 Rangers get access to some combat benefits when using a bow.

Karelzarath

17:19

You might also be able to rely on a party member to cast that spell for you.

Reibello

another option that only req's sorc 3 is Acid Arrow - though you don't need a bow to fire it.

LegendaryDude

Fighters are probably the best archers though, fighter rogue MC might not be a bad choice unless you're really intent on casting spells, and even then you have the options of EK and AT archetypes.

@Reibello And Melf's acid arrow is objectively terrible in 5e :P

Reibello

So are Rangers

also is Flame Arrow SCAG? I'm not finding it in my PHB

or maybe EE?

LegendaryDude

Elemental Evil Player's Guide

user3450548

Yes i saw some "arrow" spells but none of them are intended to be a bonus for bow attacks

I found it here: d20srd.org/srd/spells/flameArrow.htm

LegendaryDude

17:22

@user3450548 That is the 3.5 SRD, it doesn't have rules for 5e.

user3450548

A quiver of up 50 arrows

Reibello

that is not 5th edition

user3450548

I had no idea for this ^^ That's why I asked

LegendaryDude

The spell exists for 5e, it's in the EE guide

Roughly the same, except it ends after you use 12 pieces of ammo.

And it's a concentration spell with a duration of one hour.

Reibello

media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/EE_PlayersCompanion.pdf

diego

17:24

@user3450548 If your DM allows Unearthed Arcana there is an Arcane Archer archetype in the the Fighter one

LegendaryDude

@diego Ah, so there is an Arcane Archer in some form. I'm honestly surprised it wasn't in the PHB.

diego

@LegendaryDude I'm guessing they didn't want too much overlap with the Eldritch Knight in the magical Fighter category

user3450548

An user replied on my question suggesting a Arcane Trickester Rogue

LegendaryDude

@diego That's fair but I'd have assumed it'd be a ranger or rogue archetype.

user3450548

or multiclass into a ranger

LegendaryDude

17:27

Ranger could certainly use the help. :|

Reibello

yeeah

the UA one is a little better IIRC

LegendaryDude

The UA ranger doesn't do enough to make the ranger stand out.

The ranger needs a niche and it doesn't seem to have one in 5e.

diego

@user3450548 If you aren't set on Rogue you could even go single class Ranger. Or if you want sneaky mage type you could go warlock and re-fluff Eldritch Blast to be magical arrows.

LegendaryDude

It's not better at fighting than anything else (even fighters are better archers) and it's class features are underwhelming given that it isn't as good as fighting.,

Reibello

Yeah

the Beast Master UA makes it slightly more memorable

but if you go Hunter

/me shrugs

LegendaryDude

17:30

It's fighting-related features (colossus slayer, et al) are cool but they still don't outdo Battlemaster Fighter's maneuvers.

doppelgreener

17:46

Adam

Questions like these make want to facepalm myself at light speed rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/96539/…

Reibello

hey @doppelgreener - is linking in comments like this [word] (link) or [word](link) >

Adam is that the new VapeNation one?

doppelgreener

@Reibello second one

[text](http://example.com)

Adam

@Reibello yes, it is

Reibello

thanks!

@Adam yeeah I'mma point him at the Basic rules and search bar

he had one yesterday too

Adam

17:54

It's just that it's so obviously part of the basic class outline, that it just makes me wonder "are they really unable to understand it/access to the materials or are they just trolling us?"

LegendaryDude

It is very directly spelled out in the wizard class rules.

Reibello

Remember - obvious to US

have you ever tossed a PHB at someone new to RP?

it's quite the endeavour

not that you're wrong though

a little bit of effort goes a long way

like the section called "Spellcasting Ability"

doppelgreener

Jun 5 '13 at 3:51, by Jonathan Hobbs

@Lord_Gareth Seconding what @BESW said just before and @C.Ross said just after. Understanding those rules is hard, even when we now can see they mean exactly what they say or etc. You appear to have forgotten! I can still clearly remember looking at my character sheet, and having no idea how my companions knew what numbers I had to add together to fill this box in or that one. A lot of rules were very hard to understand. Thank goodness I was a Barbarian, not a magic user.

Jun 5 '13 at 3:53, by Jonathan Hobbs

The knowledge my companions had seemed arcane to me - they understood stuff and could tell me what it meant and it made sense but I had no idea how they actually knew the stuff they were telling me, and their interpretations of mechanics made sense once I heard it but it took them knowing stuff I didn't to arrive at that interpretation.

Jun 5 '13 at 3:54, by Jonathan Hobbs

Thinking "Wait, did that just leave out <this important thing>? It should apply there too, right?" sometimes, as in the case with that lay on hands question, confused me further sometimes, because I didn't understand in what way it made sense.

Jun 5 '13 at 3:54, by Jonathan Hobbs

Surely they just missed something right? I didn't see in what way it applied or didn't apply (or didn't see the major balance implications behind decisions)

Jun 5 '13 at 3:56, by Jonathan Hobbs

Ultimately it takes understanding a lot of the system very well before you understand any of the system decently, or at least that was my experience. My early learning of D&D involved a lot of understanding almost nothing and stumbling around and doing what I understood well, then as bits began making sense, all the other bits started making sense.

Reibello

Yeah - it's complicated stuff

doppelgreener

(that's all the messages i'll link)

Reibello

17:58

I feel kinda bad for the downvote storm

doppelgreener

@Reibello well there is no evidence they did any research

Reibello

I mean

yeah

but the absence of evidence something something evidence of absence

doppelgreener

@Reibello still, a sentence about having looked suddenly makes the question look a whole lot better

GreySage

@Reibello Yes, and they complained about it hitting them in the face

2

Reibello

Indeed it does

I feel bad for not editing that in. Clearly I need more coffee.

doppelgreener

18:03

@Reibello i have a significant predisposition to editing

Reibello

indeed.

Adam

I get the "understand that new people can find this very hard" argument. And it makes sense. And in most circumstances, I wouldn't bat an eye at it. But something like this is separated into it's own distinct paragraph in the very middle of the class description.

I'm not saying that I facepalm because he doesn't understand it, I'm facepalming because he didn't even see the pretty obviously placed thing at all.

THiebert

I missed so many things distinguishing different spellcasting classes when i first started, because I assumed every "spellcasting"section was the same, other than the different ability scores used for casting

Reibello

I remember moving from Cleric to Sorcerer back in 3rd edition and being "wait what how many spells?"

Adam

You know what they say about assumptions ;)

Reibello

18:11

Quick efficient decision making?

Adam

You know what, thinking more about it, I'm not even annoyed that he couldnt find it. It's a big book. His first iteration made it seem like he didn't even try to find it in the first place. That's what really irks me

nitsua60

@Adeptus "play with advantage." Nice branding/marketing, there.

LegendaryDude

@nitsua60 I like it.

Adam

@Reibello "When you assume something you make an ass out of you and me" is how I've always heard it. (And I meant to imply that here in jest)

Reibello

@Adam Oh, I'm familiar, I was just being a jerk

Adam

18:17

Ah! It's so difficult to tell that here without vocal context. My apologies!

Reibello

:D

No worries

nitsua60

@LegendaryDude Fighter/Rogue multiclass archer is devastating. I'm playing one now in AL, that @Miniman helped me think through.

@Reibello @LegendaryDude what're you talking about, Ranger is underwhelming? It's the most-useful NPC to have with your party!

Oh, you meant playing one? Yeah, then.

@doppelgreener Wow, I've never noticed that list before. Would not have guessed I was anywhere up there. [Damn you, stack! Another ranking to ~~obsessively game out when I'll change spots in~~ notice.]

2

Karelzarath

Edit all the things!

doppelgreener

18:56

@nitsua60 You shall not pass [second place] [without some hard work and possibly me switching priorities away from editing] [but good luck to you if that's what you set your sights on]!

nitsua60

@doppelgreener Not at all. It looks like I might pass BBS this season, and maybe Jadasc someday. Past that I may have found my level. It's not like there are many inactive members in the top spots =)

And, honestly, I'm starting to get mixed feelings about Stack-points. I kinda don't want to pass the next one up in total rep, because I feel like the order will be wrong then.

(Lotsa bounties coming your way soon, Stack!)

@SevenSidedDie just out of curiosity, what's the meaning of "pear-shaped?" (Aside from the literal, of course.) I'm not familiar with the phrase/metaphor.

SevenSidedDie

19:25

@nitsua60 Oh! Yes, it's a viscerally-evocative metaphor that I quite like. Apparently its exact origin is in dispute, so its meaning as a bare metaphor's been lost to time, and it's become instead a set phrase meaning “gone terrible wrong somehow”. Which detail I only just learned myself when I went to find a nice reference for its actual metaphorical meaning.

So today we're both one of the lucky 10,000. :)

3

doppelgreener

@SevenSidedDie that was quite the answer! i admire the work that went into it.

good response too.

SevenSidedDie

(As a kid I always thought that it was a reference to a nuclear explosion, but of course kids think silly things and I didn't notice until much later that “pear-shaped” is obviously not “mushroom-shaped”.)

@doppelgreener Not the way I expected to spend my morning, but sometimes duty calls and I'm up for a research paper. It seems like it may be wasted on its intended audience though. :S At least it wasn't written only for them.

nitsua60

19:52

@SevenSidedDie ty

THiebert

What's this pear-shaped conversation in reference to?

Karelzarath

I, too, am curious about this.

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