TRPG General Chat

Zachiel

13:03

Or I need to find if there is a way to unobtrusively cast spells that also powers my character up.

BESW

I hear ya.

@MePo Hi!

lisardggY

@Zachiel Yup. Find a game where reskinning and coolness factor are appreciated, not penalized.

Zachiel

@lisardggY That assumes I want to play a character in any game, rather than finding a character I'd like to play in a set game I'm already interested in.

lisardggY

13:19

@Zachiel In which case, you have to adjust the expectations of what characters to play to the game where you're in.

BESW

You can play all of the characters in some of the games, and you can play some of the characters in all of the games, but you can't play all of the characters in all of the games.

Zachiel

@BESW The second part, I'm not so sure.

BESW

Well, no, but concessions must be made for form.

Zachiel

Anyway, now I need to understand if A) the characters I tried to figure out were just unfortunate cases or B) it's the general idea of "cool and unique" that clashes with D&D at large.

lisardggY

Not with D&D at large, just with tables/games where RAW is strictly enforced.

Combined with the mindset that mechanical inferiority is inexcusable.

BESW

13:30

There's also a certain GM/world style wherein the NPCs tend to be the real special snowflakes of the game.

@rosst Hi!

rosst

hello all

So I've got a bit of a concern with one of my players. Is this the right place to possibly get some advice?

BESW

We're happy to try to help.

rosst

We've been doing this campaign for 4 or 5 months now, the first D&D/RPG/tabletop-of-any-sort game for all of my players, and things are going well enough

I assumed they would hate it, they ended up enjoying it, it's now the staple of our hanging out on weekends when the kids aren't occupying our time. So... moral of that, the interest seems to be there

3 of the 4 have picked up the game rather well. They'll forget to use feats or class abilities at times, don't know all of the ins and outs of the rules.. not a big deal, all in all

the 4th, though, is struggling.

Zachiel

@BESW Well we don't have this in our play by chats since most of the game is spent interacting exclusively with other players, but at the same time the problem is having lots of special snowflake PCs, and sometimes it feels like that question about having 5 witchers in the same party.

Waterseas

13:46

@Rosst Struggling in what manner?

Zachiel

@lisardggY I basically want to be able to tackle harder enemies, in order to get more XP, in order to get on par with higher level character, because I want to have a good chance of saying my opionion out loud without getting met with "whatever, I'll do it my way and you can't stop me / and I will stop you".

This isn't a thing that happens too often in the game, it is just a thing I fear might happen.

rosst

@Waterseas It's a bit of a variety. The main issue seems to be catching on to the game mechanics. When we started, based on my blind assumption it'd be a one-off (or two), I didn't require them to read the books in any way. Make a character, let's play a silly little game, etc.

BESW

@Frezak ...is that an oracular slug?

rosst

That wasn't a problem, but after 4 months and leveling up significantly, I couldn't keep up with their evolving characters and the story as well. Told them they needed to read the rules surrounding their characters before I can continue so it's fun for me, also.

Even after reading the book, she still doesn't know what her character is even capable of (ranger/druid). I've sat with her alone and walked through every aspect

lisardggY

@Zachiel This is still the large-scale chat game we're talking about, right?

BESW

13:51

This might be relevant:

25

A: Dealing with players of vastly different skill levels?

Short Version: Maybe P is overwhelmed by bookkeeping and it's distracting him from situational awareness. Help him make a mechanically very simple character without fiddly bits or conditionals to keep track of, so he can focus on making good choices rather than having good bookkeeping. Invite th...

rosst

I take sooo much time in game to walk her through the decisions that are in front of her and have been met with a bit of, um, aggression?

BESW

What system are you using?

rosst

3.5

(going to check that post out shortly)

(thank you)

BESW

I'm poking through the backlog for other potentially useful questions/answers.

rosst

Also, on a side/similar note, any suggestion on how to help people in recognizing the dice?

BESW

13:54

You mean like telling a d8 and a d10 apart?

rosst

essentially

Waterseas

Difficult without looking at the numbers, mostly just inherently learned, through shape recognition typically

BESW

That... would make an excellent main-site question.

rosst

I don't remember it being this drawn out of an issue when I first started (oh so many years ago), but she's not the only one that will space out on what a d20 looks like, or what a percentile means

I can post one up

Zachiel

@lisardggY Yes. I don't roll characters for anything else, I think. (It's actually two different games with different constrains and style, but both 3.5 and within the same multiplayer format)

Aether

13:55

d8 and d10 are the two most similar I think...

Maybe get different coloured dice?

lisardggY

@Zachiel Well, from what I remember you telling me before, this game has a very different dynamic from smaller party-based games. Basically, it's more of a sandbox game, not a game where the GM is invested in working with the players to get their personal stories across, right?

rosst

I tried that but it still turned into me having to say "No, the red die"

BESW

Off the top of my head, I'd suggest finding a one-shot game which uses a lot of different kinds of dice.

rosst

Possibly just persistence?

Waterseas

How often do you play @Rosst ?

rosst

13:57

Anywhere from twice a week to once every other week. It's a bit sporadic.

BESW

34

Q: How can I speed up D&D 3.5e combat?

I'm looking for ways to speed up the combat in my D&D 3.5 game. It seems that turns - both player and non-player - simply take too long. I have thought about giving everyone a 30 second timer, but I'm afraid that might inhibit their ability to come up with strategy and tactics.

rosst

4/5 of us have kid(s) so it's just when we can get together.

BESW

40

Q: Should I do something about slow pace in my inexperienced group?

Last night we played our first RPG (ever!) and I'm not sure if it went well. The game was Deathwatch and the basic story was to find someone. There were three possible places where he could be; then the players hot wire a truck and escape the area - a simple story for an intro game. Here's how ...

new-players new-gm pacing

rosst

You guys are awesome, by the way. I appreciate the input.

BESW

15

Q: How do you build rule mastery in your game?

No one likes the "rules lawyer." However, most GMs like players to know the rules. There is nothing more frustrating to have a player, or players, come to a table to play a game--that they are excited about--only to demonstrate little or no basic knowledge of skills, tests, stats, combat, &c. And...

system-agnostic players

lisardggY

13:59

@rosst For most people, I'd say "yeah, just play and dice familiarity will come", but some people might be specifically disinclined to recognize such differences.

Zachiel

@lisardggY Well, it depends. If a DM really likes the background story of a character, it might end up tied to some quest. I've seen people meeting the disembodied head of the father they killed before leaving their hometown, and now-vampire exes coming back to haunt the guy who rejected them and is now married to a "meaningless mortal".

BESW

26

Q: How to remember all the rules?

Do you have tricks or techniques to remember all the rules to the games you're playing? I would like to run my first game as a gamemaster, but I'm struggling with remembering all the feats and competency rules.

gm-techniques new-gm

rosst

I'm in constant communication with my members and I'm always asking if there are things I can do better to improve their experience or ways I can help them learn the mechanics.

BESW

@rosst Sounds like you're on the right track, then. I've found that often players have a hard time articulating what they like or what they want to see change, until they've had practice and been accompanied to do so.

Aether

BESW - RPG.SE Archivist :)

Zachiel

14:01

@Aether The shape. d20 has small triangular faces and look almors spheric. d8s have large triangular faces (while d10 has faces shaped like kites). d12 has pentagonal faces.

The hardest part is committing this information to mind.

Aether

Yep, I'm generally okay, but I have a friend who finds it hard to pick out a d10 or d8 from a pile of dice

rosst

@Zachiel Impressive... I have never once put verbiage towards the dice shapes

they just are what they are

d8 seems to be what fries them the most

Zachiel

d8 versus d10 I guess

BESW

15

Q: How can I reduce crunch for my players without putting all pressure on the GM?

I'm ramping up to play Pathfinder, a system with which my players are not familiar, although they have a little bit of experience with D&D (so Pathfinder won't be very shocking to them). One of my player's concerns is that the system is heavy on rules, and he's afraid that it will stall the natu...

pathfinder gm-techniques

rosst

For the most part, yeah

Zachiel

14:03

Their overall shape is similar

Aether

I've tried to keep then in separate piles, but it gets quite laborious

rosst

I tried lining them up for them by value.

Actually one of the more successful efforts

But still lead to downtime of running down the line looking for correct die, and then settling on the d10 instead of d8

Aether

It's not usually a problem for actual D&D play - you use the same ones over again usually... Pathfinder ACG is usually the difficulty.

Waterseas

Is this an issue with all the players or one in particular?

rosst

And the d% confusion gets me more than anything. To give the players more feel of influence in the game, I call for High/Low rolls quite often. They roll a d% and call high or low.

Aether

14:05

@rosst Do they actually need access to all the dice at once? Some of my friends leave the dice they rarely use in their bag/tray/box

BESW

My searches are turning up a lot of old game-recommendation questions that I'm flagging to close, which is one reason my search is kinda erratic.

rosst

The one that's struggling more than the others, but only one of the four is not having issues at all

BESW

13

Q: How to handle players who take a long time to take their turn?

Problem There is a player in my current group who takes a long time to take their turns. A painfully long time! Typical exchange Me: Okay John*, it's now your turn to act. The serpent is coiled around your friend, squeezing life from her, but they're on the other side of the pit. What do you ...

system-agnostic problem-players time

rosst

He's picked it up exceedingly quickly (he's my closest friend though and has dealt with my D&D based advances for years)

@Aether Valid point

BESW

You may find that D&D 3.5 isn't the right system for your group. I know that's hard to face because of the system's sunk costs; took me years to seriously consider another system.

rosst

14:07

But really only the d12 (and possibly d4) gets left out in standard practice

I've played and enjoyed multiple other systems, I don't have an issue with trying something different

BESW

41

Q: Techniques for making high level D&D play more manageable?

Many people complain about high level D&D 3.x play. It can become less enjoyable for both players and GMs because of the huge nest of rules and complexity required for every character, the prep pain of creating high level NPCs and monsters, super slow combats, and the increasingly huge differenti...

dnd-3.5e pathfinder dnd-3e

rosst

The main problem is the resistance I got when I told them they needed to read the book

3.5 is the only game I feel comfortable enough that I can wing it through rules I've forgotten and still have a coherent session

BESW

@rosst Oh, well if that's an issue...

[new search]

rosst

mmhmm

BESW

14

Q: How to play with friends who don't want to read the rules?

I want to play an RPG with my friends. However, they are a bit impatient, and I'd have to wait forever before they'd read the rule-book. I've read it all, because I found it interesting. They kind of like the idea, but just want to play. This brings two problems: How much of the mechanics do I ...

new-gm gm-preparation

Aether

14:08

Might be worth just having them put the d20 and whatever their weapon damage die is in front of them... and any others they commonly use. The rest can be put to the side.

rosst

You're filling my tab-bar with all kinds of goodies, thank you, BESW

@Aether Good call, I may give that a shot

Aether

@rosst Hmm, I see

BESW

@rosst We're happy to give advice here, but so often it's already been said much better on the main site!

rosst

I did get a bit of settling of the emotions after I thoroughly explained why I needed them to understand at least their portion of the game

BESW

If there's an existing mainsite question you think ought to be helpful but is lacking in good answers, let me know and I'll put a bounty on it.

10

Q: Minimum player knowledge of the rules

None of my group of players have read any of the rule books, not even the Player's Handbook. I find this isn't a problem when making rulings, as they all accept my word (and a quick lookup if I'm not sure). However, it does seem to limit their range of actions, as they don't know what's possible....

dungeons-and-dragons new-players

Zachiel

14:11

@rosst What kind of games / which other games, if I may ask? Beware, this is a trap question XD

BESW

6

Q: Reading material to present to completely new players

I'm about to start running a game for a completely new group. I've been playing DnD for over a decade, and have a lot of experience as a DM, but my group is completely green. I believe one person has played a little bit in the past, but not 4th edition, and the others have never played a tabletop...

dungeons-and-dragons new-players gm-preparation

13

Q: Introducing System Mechanics to new players

Context Hello, I'm assembling a DnD/Pathfinder group, and all the players are new to tabletop rpg. All they know is rpg is about storytelling, dice rolling [ and macabre rituals <- just kidding, ;) ] The thing is, I, as DM, find the D20 combat system pretty rich/interesting. I'm reading it all ...

system-agnostic new-players

rosst

@Zachiel SR4, GURPS, various d20 systems

Aether

I'm also reminded of some of the FFG games (e.g. Star Wars), which colour-codes dice... your skills written on the sheet are the same shape and colour as the dice you roll for it

rosst

@Zachiel Multiple homebrew systems back in my OpenRPG days

BESW

18

Q: How can I get my players to do extra “homework”?

I've noticed a problem with my PC's lacking rich backgrounds, or players lacking knowledge of the mechanics of their own characters. This has lead to me giving the players "homework", which I have even set aside time every other week to do. The type of "homework" includes, fill out this "PC Quest...

gm-techniques problem-players problem-gm

rosst

14:13

@BESW The "troubled player" actually specifically said "This was supposed to be a fun thing, I didn't want homework"

BESW

@rosst That may be a flag to try a simpler system; D&D 3.5 is a game where system mastery can drastically alter one's fun.

It sounds like your experience with other systems is mostly in relatively complex engines.

rosst

@BESW Very much so lol

Suggestions on simpler?

Outside of like Munchkin

BESW

There are much simpler, less fiddly systems available. For free. With entire rulesets that range from 72 pages to "fits on an index card."

Brian

Dungeon World might satisfy this person

Is she happy with her character? Seems strange that she doesn't know what it can do.

rosst

She loves her character

BESW

14:16

Hmm. Free, low-fiddly rule systems I've personally had success with:

rosst

Animal companion is her reincarnated murdered brother

(they actually just found the killer)

(who didn't even remember the brother in any way... bit of a dagger to the heart for her that he was so meaningless)

BESW

....focusing on stuff that's easily customisable for (or already features) a D&D-like setting and possibly even porting characters...

...well, Dungeon World is a bit crunchier for the GM than I usually like, but it's very un-crunchy for players.

rosst

@BESW Might be worth it

BESW

Compared to the stuff you're used to, DW won't feel onerous.

rosst

Personally, I do a very free-form game. Sandbox world and all that

BESW

14:18

Fate Accelerated and the somewhat crunchier Fate Core are my group's go-to systems.

Accelerated is just a stripped-down-to-the-bones version of Core.

rosst

Sweet

BESW

Core expands the mechanics a bit more and talks a lot about the philosophy of the system to make it easier to hack successfully.

And Fate is setting-agnostic; you get to invent your own setting (collaboratively with the players if you like) or pick up any of the many published settings/modules.

rosst

Ah, sweet

Super sweet

I really enjoyed Unisystem

BESW

So long as your campaign is about PCs who are competent, proactive, and dramatic, Fate is usually pretty good at supporting the story. You may even be able to port your existing characters and campaigns.

rosst

(and shadowrun, but not going to try and run that ever again...)

Brian

14:21

I have d8's with pips. That would solve your problem

BESW

Fate's mechanics are largely narrative: instead of abilities like Str and Dex and Int, PCs have aspects, pithy statements describing something about the character that's important to the story.

Brian

your other problem

BESW

You get game currency when an aspect makes things complicated or dramatic for the character, and you spend game currency when an aspect can make things go better for the character. eg, if you have an Enormous flaming sword, you can spend currency to get bonuses to attack with it or scare people--but you can earn currency when your sword attracts undue attention or makes you clumsy or sets things on fire that you'd rather not burn.

rosst

Crap. I've got a meeting to attend shortly

Fate sounds quite fun, BESW

I'll definitely look into all of this stuff you guys have mentioned. I 100% appreciate the suggestions and wisdom

BESW

@rosst ttfn! We'll see you again soon, I hope.

rosst

14:24

Definitely

Zachiel

@rosst As I suspected. Nothing really out of the same (briar) patch. All those games, to my knowledge, do the same thing, even if the mechanics are different. Expect that some players in this chat talk about really different things when suggesting (or just talking about) "different games". ;)

BESW

@rosst As an example of what @Zachiel means by "really different," take a look at Roll For Shoes, Lasers & Feelings, and Great Ork Gods. None are really suitable for long-form campaigns, but they're great fun (free!) one-shots and palette cleansers.

Zachiel

@BESW Well I was thinking more on the lines of Don't Rest Your Head, My Life With Master or Do:PotFT (even if it's not probably what rosst might use.)

BESW

True. Those aren't free though.

Brian

:::Writing all these down. :)

Zachiel

14:35

I have problems distinguishing free games from paid ones (save for the majors) since I'm not the one that usually buys them.

I don't recall, @BESW, is Dog Eats Dog free?

BESW

Well, if people are taking notes... here's a dump of every game I've ever enjoyed at least one session of:

Zachiel

Mine is in my profile.

BESW

...bah, so's mine, though less curated than "have enjoyed."

But the list's too long to fit in a comment box formatted, so link. Scroll down a bit in my profile.

@Zachiel Nope. It's also very hard to get.

Brian

I typically play RoleMaster (2e or Classic). I like the heavy critical aspect (anyone can get lucky) and wealth of character classes

Thanks, I am checking out profiles for ideas.

Zachiel

@Brian I feel like there's a n entire swath of games born directly from D&D, Gurps and x: the y-ing rulesets that all absically behave the same way, including focusing on combat, in-game resource management and rules that emulate the physics of a fictional world.

BESW

14:40

Agreed.

Zachiel

Then there's games who have rules that care less about trying to emulate physics (you need to roll this to do that) and focus more on the story, or on the feel of narration, with rules that go that way.

BESW

My group is currently focused on games that have little interest in resource management, provide equal focus for physical and non-physical (social, psychological) conflict modes, and use rules to encourage/enforce particular styles of story.

Brian

Yes, I guess I'm more of a physics guy but with a beer and pretzel mentality

Zachiel

There also are games whose rules go towards tactical challehnges, but they look more like the first group, despite being classified with the second in the focused/unfocused distinction (game rules are called focused when they push in a specific direction, trying to ease playing a game with some specific priority, at the expense of other, clashing priorities)

Brian

I don't sweat the small stuff. Many of my party members who came from D&D 2e (I think) are a little too paranoid (checking every door before going through) I'm learning a lot about this site (i.e. speeding up periods where the party is mapping)

BESW

14:45

An easy-to-link extreme example of focused rules with a totally non-physical direction is my entry to the 200 Word RPG Challenge.

Brian

I have played with individuals who are more into role playing and don't want to know the rules ("just tell me which dice to roll") and I don't have a problem with that.

@BESW, thanks. I am checking that out

BESW

@Brian Dungeon World is basically set up to make that work.

As you can see, Colonypunk doesn't give two figs about the physicality of a character's action; it's focused on how the social context of that action shapes the character's positionality and that of those around him.

Brian

@BESW, Yes, it looks interesting

BESW

Cthulhu Dark is another (free, small) game where every rule and mechanic is clearly bent toward achieving a single game-experience objective.

In that game, you almost always succeed on whatever you try to do, but because of the challenges you're facing that hardly helps. It's a game about the desperate struggle of competent people to be effective in the face of mind-shattering experiences.

The only character stats in that game are the category of thing you're most effective at, and your inexorably increasing Insanity score.

Because those are the only two things which matter enough to mechanise: can you be effective enough to beat back the horrors before they permanently warp your mind?

Anyway, I must sleep now. ttfn

Brian

15:00

I have an idea for a coming campaign. It's analogous to a being on a cruise ship where you visit multiple destinations and, later, if you like one, you can return to it. The group is currently carrying a mysterious artifact (a cobalt blue box). It's a dimension hopping device which they will need to return to it's rightful owner. With each dimension hop, they will find themselves in a new system. The animist (RoleMaster character) might be a druid.

Waterseas

Is it a blue telephone box?

Brian

Magician (rolemaster) might be a professor (Cthulhu)

Zachiel

@Waterseas BESW just said he needs sleep, let's let him go XD

Brian

@Waterseas. LOL no much smaller. They have no idea what it is.

::removing shackles from BESW:::::

It's going to take a lot of setup time though. Luckily, the group is currently low level and isn't actively trying to solve the mystery of the blue box.

nitsua60

@rosst stupid question, but it's something I do out of habit... when your player is done rolling a die, can they place it back with the highest number face-up? I habitually line up my dice this way for... luck?

Waterseas

15:13

I find it insane how many people do that

Zachiel

> An upper limit to epic shield, armor and weapon enchanting has been set.

YES! YES!

HELL YES!

nitsua60

@Waterseas why?

Zachiel

[goes around hugging D&D players in the room]

Brian

I think Rosst has stepped away (real world calling)

Waterseas

Because it doesn't do anything, and because it takes unnecessary time

nitsua60

15:16

@Waterseas It satisfies one of my gaming urges, which is moving little things around. And it definitely takes no time away from play. Come to my table with a stopwatch if you disagree. In my "off-time" I fiddle with dice.

Line them up in different patterns, rotate their pip-lines to be parallel, &c.

Zachiel

@nitsua60 Some say that, since dice slowly melt, the face on the lower side grows larger and heavier, making it easier to get the favourable outcome if the dice is stored with that outcome up.

nitsua60

Okay, then I've achieved two things =)

Waterseas

A. The chance increase is incredibly minute. B. Tabletops aren't supposed to be about trying to gain an unfair advantage

Brian

Some say the dice gods are chaotic, others say they like patterns

Zachiel

@nitsua60 If I'm doing that (or playing tetris with cluster of d6, or building dice towers) it means I'm losing my attention on the game.

@Waterseas yet someone likes humiliating the opposition.

Waterseas

15:18

Hmm?

Zachiel

You know when you're fighting the orcs and boom! critical! Critical again! Wooooo! - it's exciting. And it keeps feeling exciting even if you cheat, as long as you're not a remorseful person (I am).

nitsua60

@Zachiel I've never actually heard that before. It strikes me as the sort of thing that's got to be orders of magnitude smaller than manufacturing defects/inconsistencies. (At least, given that I'm storing them randomly, and it's only the two hours a week at the table that they dis in any particular orientation.)

Waterseas

Why would it be exciting if you know the expected outcome though?

Zachiel

@nitsua60 probably, it is just an urban legend and it doesn't really work, for the reasons you stated. Yet people sometimes do it.

@Waterseas because you would be winning.

Brian

I agree, the variability would be infinitesimal and statistically wouldn't make any difference whatsoever. It's a "fact" that's been touted so those players can feel they have some sort of control over the dice.

Zachiel

15:27

And it would be a proof of you being able to successfully cheat, I guess.

Waterseas

Meh, winning when you have an unfair advantage doesn't seem exciting

Brian

It's like people who track lottery numbers thinking the balls have some sort of memory

Zachiel

That's just poor understanding of how probability works

Brian

or craps players who line up 7 or 11 before rolling

Zachiel

Specifically, the law of large numbers (or what the correct English name is)

Have you ever had players insist in using that other player's dice, that appears to roll higher numbers, especially after their own had a bad streak? It is not that winning is exciting per se, it is that missing (at least in D&D) is a waste of time.

Brian

15:30

It's all about people looking for some sort of edge. Lots of my players have superstitions (some say pre-game roll out the bad numbers, others say don't). Some have to have specific colored dice. It's all just feel good mumbo jumbo

@Zachiel, exactly!

or switching dice when they're on a bad streak

In RoleMaster, missing is fun because there are open ended rolls.

nitsua60

15:49

@Zachiel So I'm not always sure it's a sign of poor probability understanding... perhaps it's really good understanding of probability. I.e. Either the dice respond to superstitions, or they don't. If the don't then I'm no worse off for switching to "hot" dice. If they do, then I am better off for switching. So, as Pascal himself tells us, we'd be fools not to succumb to the superstition!

Waterseas

If it weren't guided by emotions, sure

Zachiel

> We'd better believe in God, in the chance that it exists

Brian

It's a question of cost, what does it take to accept this action? If all I have to do is switch dice to get better numbers, it's simple. If I have to take the time to set up each die on it's highest number each time, or sleep with them under my pillow, the cost in time is higher. If I have to go to church on Sunday's, the cost is still higher (though the rewards might be worth it).

Zachiel

17:15

Ok, so my playing site decided to limit magic weapons to +12 enhancement, +20 total

Time to decide which enchantments I want in it. Before, buying one at 80% price just to sell it later at 75% to buy a better one at 80% again was a 5% loss at each step. Now I can just wait for the one I really want to buy, then buy it.

Brian

17:42

Sounds like a plan

Zachiel

@Brian Too many manuals to wade through in order to find which pieces I have at my disposal for building this weapon means I'll probably go on with my regular weapon, enchanted with superior magic weapon...

Which is a pity because I charge a lot and that +1 enhancement that doubles my attack on a charge is probably going to lose me almost half of my damage output

Waterseas

Just weaponize a deck of many things

Brian

Doubles your attack as in "to hit" as opposed to damage?

nitsua60

@SevenSidedDie just commented on the meta CW about implementing LaTeX, but I'm not sure if it'll ping you. So... <PING!>

The Oracle

18:03

0

Q: Stop repeating answers, please

I am sorry in advance if this comes off as harsh. I assure you I do not intend it this way, but my English is not so good to get all the nuances and so on, especially when I am tired after work I just try and speak matter of factly. Which sometimes people interpret as rude. So, a certain kind of...

discussion

Brian

Hmmm, I have mixed feelings about that one. There is such a large gray area. Sometimes clarifications, examples and rewording can make all the difference too.

nitsua60

If you just want to say "leave this DM" please vote for an existing answer, don't add another. There's more than enough. — mxyzplk ♦ 20 hours ago

I think the key is there: if you just want to say the thing that's already been said, use your votes to do so.

Brian

I agree with that

nitsua60

If you believe you really are adding something, go ahead and add it. And I'll Assume Good Faith and look for what really is new in your answer.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle @kmallory @Grubermensch Wax, game tonight?

Sejanus

18:18

@nitsua60 I was thinking maybe people finish writing their answers while others post theirs, or just don't read other answers carefully. Also it's easier with strict rules questions since you can immediately see whether the question was already answered or not, but problematic with kind of open ended questions that can be answered in different ways.

nitsua60

Yeah, rules-questions have let me to an interesting new observational science: often @Miniman and I will answer a simple 5e question almost exactly simultaneously, with substantially similar content. Then I get to watch which garners votes and wonder how much presentation/wording/formatting has to do with it =)

Brian

If you see aspects of the original question that have not been answered, when should you post a new answer and when should you edit a previous answer and merge your imput with the other answerer?

nitsua60

So I think there are two answers, because of the two "camps" of questions that I'm thinking of: "simple/rules" vs. "social dynamics."

In the first case I usually throw a comment onto an existing one, wait a bit for the OP to see/respond, and if I feel that issue really needs airing I'll post an independent answer.

In the second case the answers are usually opinion/personal experience-based and I wouldn't expect many authors to incorporate someone else's suggestion/experience into their own presentation. In that case the slightly-different answer seems like the only route.

But that's just my individual take on it--one user's thoughts.

Zachiel

19:32

@Brian No, as in doubles the damage output in a charge. I can't remember the english name (valiant?) but it's from Shining South.

Brian

I just made an Excel file with a Sortable List of all 857 RPG Tags with definitions and times used. Good tool for posting. Anywhere it can be uploaded?

Zachiel

@Sejanus Or maybe they want some rep too.

@Brian I think google Drive is a good place(?)

Brian

See some duplicates like "XP" and "experience-points", "armor" and "armour", "battlemap" and "battle-map" etc.

Zachiel

@Brian those should be passed to a mod so that they can be turned into synonims

Brian

LOL, if I only knew how to do that. ;)

Zachiel

19:45

I have no idea which privileges are needed to tacke this, but it looks like there's been synonyms set by Gomad, BESW, Miniman, Jadasc and doppelgreener, plus some other people who's less frequently in chat nowadays, and the mods. Let's go the surefire way.

@mxyzplk, could you take a look at this? It looks like Brian found some duplicates that might be turned into synonyms. Where should he post them? (Of course, ping him, not me.)

I had to edit that message like 4 times. 4 pings for him. Whooooops.

trogdor

whoops

indeed

Aether

Create tag synonyms is available to anyone with 2,500 rep or more...

Brian

Thanks Zachiel

@Aether, LOL Thanks, I'll get back to them in 2020

Zachiel

@Aether then I have no idea how to do it, since I'm way over that limit but I see no "add a synonym" button.

Oh, I need votes in the tag.

Let's see what I can do, then.

Aether

@Zachiel Yeah, you need a score of 5 or more on the tag, then you can propose a synonym. Other users who have a score of 5 or more on the tag can then vote. When/if the votes on the synonym reach +4, the synonym goes live.

Zachiel

19:57

It looks like some of those you found are already synonyms, and I wonder where you got your data, @Brian

Brian

I didn't know synonyms existed. I will review for them. I'm not sure why you'd make duplicates synonyms rather than just deleting one of them (i.e. house-rules and houserules)

Aether

@Zachiel Actually, true. All of the examples given are already synonyms. battlemap and battle-map, xp and experience-points, and armor and armour.

Zachiel

@Brian because people can still manually type the one you did delete, and it gets created again. This way, instead, when they use the deprecated one it will be automatically changed into the other.

Aether

Wait, can we not do tags in chat anymore?

Brian

Ahhh, I didn't know it was that easy to make a tag

Aether

20:00

Oh, I see...

Zachiel

test

Aether

[ tag : ... ]

Zachiel

without the spaces

Aether

Yup, got it. Thanks. :)

Zachiel

@mxyzplk false alarm

Brian

20:02

I will add a column for my table for synonyms

Aether

@Brian Just need 300 rep or more to create tags

Brian

I thought you had to actually set up to make a tag, not that it was as easy as typing it in with different spelling or hyphens.

I want to get rid of tags, not make more ! LOL

Aether

You are not alone! There are people who discuss and help to look after tags, including removing unnecessary tags, merging tags, and creating synonyms.

Brian

Does a synonym (in the context of linking here) always work both ways? If "armour" was linked as a synonym to "armor" is it automatic that "armor" is a synonym for "armour" or does it need to be linked in reverse?

Ahhh, to have GameMaster powers in the real world....

Aether

I believe, in this case, the actual tag is armor, and armour is its synonym (not an actual tag, and not linked both ways). That is, all references to armour are automatically replaced with armor.

If you click armour, it actually takes you to armor.

So it's a one-way directed relationship - there is a "primary" tag, and the synonyms are "secondary"

eimyr

20:14

@Brian but it works alright. If you search for any of the synonyms, you'll also find the primary and searching for primary tag will give you synonyms too.

Zachiel

I recently saw someone in chat link to a blog article by the SE network authors that says that AM English is the standard for the site. So, Armor is correct, Armour is a synonym.

Aether

@Zachiel Even as a BrE speaker, I appreciate the consistency.

eimyr

@Zachiel AmEnglish is a standard, but not to the extent that BrEng has to be reverted. While consistency within one's post is appreciated I constantly post USENglish mixed with UKENglish and BROKENglish

No one has ever said anything.

Brian

Okay, it's all becoming clearer. I'll play with it a bit

Aether

@eimyr That's fine for individual posts, but for site-wide things, it's good to have a baseline of consistency

Zachiel

20:18

@eimyr I mean for tags. Since one of thwo versions is going to be a synonym of the other, we shall have the AmE as main.

eimyr

Yeah, I think that's the idea (to both of your comments).

Still, I like to feel the smugness of typing in "focussing" or some similarly archaic Br spelling.

Zachiel

Anyway, I translate technical manuals and we sell to England, but not to the US (yet), so everything has to be BrE. I fear the day when we will swap markets. XD

"dialler"

Brian

so that's why the synonyms have no numbers next to them because they are not actually used. The fog is clearing

eimyr

@Zachiel "Y'All Welcum to teh Mawnwal. Of beginnings press start thingy..." I could totally write a MemEnglish

Aether

@Zachiel Can't you just keep it BrE, and then have all your AmE customers think you're really quaint?

Zachiel

20:21

You must mean "to Le mawnwal".

eimyr

"le" is so 2012

Zachiel

@Aether I'll probably do. I'm gonna be the dappest.

eimyr

@Aether ... and that's how different spellings happen.

Zachiel

@eimyr I still recall when we called things "so 2006"

eimyr

Calling things "so 2006" is so 2010.

Brian

20:38

hmmm, sometimes the synonym has a number. i.e. Story x 60, plot x 29. So looks like you can use a synonym as a tag.

Aether

@Brian story and plot aren't classified as synonyms

Brian

rpg.stackexchange.com/tags/synonyms

Aether

@Brian I see... it looks like the synonym has been suggested, but hasn't received the required number of votes - it says "Pending (0)" next to it

Brian

Okay, so if it says Pending, then it's not yet. What's the magic number?

Aether

Having said that, I can see that game-aids is a synonym of tools, and even though game-aids links to tools, there are apparently 8 questions tagged game-aids...

@Brian A +4 vote score

Brian

20:44

Maybe they happened before they were linked?

Aether

@Brian Could be, but that throws my "all occurrences of the synonym are replaced by the master" thing out a bit :P

Brian

Alas, I must go. Always an education here. Until tomorrow. ~~

mxyzplk

@Zachiel word

Grubermensch

21:22

@JoshuaAslanSmith looks like @waxeagle posted on G+ that we won't have a game

Shalvenay

22:11

@Grubermensch did Tiamat eat his internet after all?

SevenSidedDie

We have MathJax support now!

17

Q: MathJax (LaTeX equations) for RPG.SE and Statistics Posts

The nature of tabletops overlaps a lot with statistics to the point where being able to simply write minor mathematical expressions would be beneficial to conveying simple mathematical explanations. For example, Math.SE has a plugin that allows for the direct in-line use of LaTeX math formatting ...

feature-request status-completed

eimyr

22:35

yay\

SevenSidedDie

@Brian @Aether Re story and plot:

7

Q: Do we need both [plot] and [story]?

We have the tags plot and story. Is there any value in having both, or should one be a synonym of the other? Previous inconclusive meta: How should the "story" and "plot" tags be used?

discussion tags

Momonga-sama

Could someone say, what should I improve in my answer, because I really don't know what people expect from it...

-4

A: DFRPG city creation via telepresence

Roll20 is good for playing, however if you'd like to create something in it and keep for further use, it is bad. It is not a good tool for development. I'd highly recommend you Deekit. It needs you to sign up, however you can simply do it with Facebook, Github, Google, Microsoft, Linkedin, Twitt...

BESW

22:50

You're trying to estimate a solution to a problem you don't have experience with by assuming it's similar to problems you've had. You might be right, but it's going to be very hard to show that.

Momonga-sama

"you don't have experience with"

Mostly creating content that was free, we primarily used freeware. We've used Google Docs most frequently and it went pretty well. It is a common thing for the creator to do lots of understatements. The commenting feature allowed to improve the content that was troublesome for the readers. For me it is the best possible tool.

The overall results of brainstorms were sketches and notes created with Deekit. (everybody wrote a few key words about their ideas, connections between them that were previously mentioned) Later, it was transformed into a legit map with a better graphic program mostly…

What the heck?

BESW

Yes, I've read that.

It says you collaborated on GDocs, and then did... something... on Deekit, and that means I should be able to use Deekit for my situation.

You go into a lot of detail about your experience with GDocs, but there's very little about what it's like to use the program you're actually suggesting.

Since I know you've never used Deekit for DFRPG city creation, I have no way of knowing if your Deekit experience is comparable because there's no description of it: you've described Deekit's tools, and the experience of using other programs to prepare for using Deekit, and you've shown the end result after it was modified in unknown ways by yet a third program.

Momonga-sama

So I should decribe Gdocs features?

BESW

I don't know how you can get "tell me more about GDocs" out of "you've told me more about using GDocs than about using the program you're actually suggesting."

Momonga-sama

Please tell me, what is the difference between DFRPG and a good setting?

BESW

22:58

DFRPG city creation is a specific procedure that I'm trying to support. You're just talking about end products like all setting design procedures are exactly the same.

nitsua60

@Momonga-sama Far be it for me to interject, but I think a good start would be for you to ask @BESW if they've got five or ten minutes to pop over to the NAB or Spoil-Lair to chat with you. You've got some experience with collaborative software that you believe may be useful, but don't know enough about DFRPG to really make the case. He's got needs that hinge both upon DFRPG's basics and the many -> 1 <-> 1 <- many setup he describes.

BESW

You didn't even mention that "the best possible solution would be if everybody had their own computer" until SSD explicitly prompted you, although that not being possible is a major factor in my setup.

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