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01:00 - 16:0016:00 - 23:00

4:00 PM
I'm allergic to airships.
@Golkopitenko I think your guys should be invited if they posess some unique trait or insight, but if not, maybe it's time for some hasty promotions.
 
N'aw, what's wrong with airships?
 
Well, nothing, as long as they are not boat-shaped and not ridiculously steampunky and... you know what, I just don't like them.
I like the idea of a sailing ship, a plane, blimp or spacecraft, but to put a literal ship out of the water and airborne it just feels wrong.
 
@eimyr what do you think it sounds better, to have them invited to report what they did on the enemy camp, or to have that exposure I want in a feast and they see the high ranks from afar?
 
@Golokopitenko I honestly don't know. You're the best judge of your own campaign.
 
hmmm yeah, but I mean, it could be a horribly bad idea
I honestly like the both equally... or maybe MASH them together
see, they are at the feast and see the high ranks, hear some comments by low ranks around them, and see the high ranks go into a room to discuss important matters
so the characters might try to sneak around or devise a plot to get their ears in
but if I see my players are not doing any of that, I could just have them called to report the camp thing to have them in
 
4:11 PM
OK. they are brought in to report. They enter in medias res, while the higher ups are discussing important matters. Then they get to report and if they are sneaky they might linger on. They may interrupt to contribute if they have something of value to say.
OK, I have a tip. If you REALLY REALLY need the players to do X, don't try to goad them to do X or wait until they do X on their own. Just come out clean, say, "blah blah blah and then you did X, so now blah blah blah".
 
oh hell no!
 
Otherwise you're taking away a chunk of their agency.
 
my players hate being told what they do
I just mean to have a way to get them in anyway if they don't do what I expect
 
Ok, imagine it's a dungeon, ok?
 
4:14 PM
you want to have a fork, left to the treasure, right to the dragon
you want the party to get to the dragon
if you give them no info at all and it's a random choice, it's railroading
 
ah yes, I've read about that
 
if you give them a choice but no matter where they go, it's the dragon, it's railroading
and this is your situation
 
I see
you're right
hahaha I had no clue, but I was railroading
 
I'd say - you reached a fork and there was nothing to see, so you chose a random path, was it left or right? OK. Now there's a dragon.
Try this: they are asked to report at the meeting. they may go or not. if they do, they're in. if they don't the effect of this meeting they hear announced on the street
then, if they went, they may go around to snoop. if they do, they get extra info. if not, this info is used against them later
etc.
 
that's good
 
4:19 PM
how do you like it?
 
I do!
better to have freedom than the false sense of freedom
 
(credit to Justin Alexander)
 
Praise be unto Him.
Is that the nodal progress?
 
One of the versions
 
Oooo what is this
 
4:21 PM
the funnel version
 
you're going to give me a link, eimyr
/me waves hand before eimyr
 
I think it's on page 6 of this guide
You seem to have this: players can do stuff around the city and then they have to report at the meeting
 
ah I entirely missed that there were more parts on this!
 
and after the meeting they can totally go do other sutff
 
yeah
I was thinking about creating another city for the other stuff... but now I'm thinking about just putting all the stuff in one
 
4:23 PM
I like this one the most:
 
ooh...
it seems like the hardest
 
but I'm thinking more connections between layers
 
how do you build your games @eimyr? do you write stuff down or do you make diagrams like this?
 
I make diagrams
 
diagrams only?
 
4:24 PM
I prep 1 scene per node, write it all down on a page, with its own ID number
the page has everything I need, including all inks in or out of the scene
 
Oh wow, do you have such a sheet anywhere?
 
then I have a "master" diagram where I show pages in a structure like that
not at the moment
 
the thing is
 
However, I have some funnel - like stuff too. I have a timeline of events that happen (unless prevented) which are also the points where I "update" the world
 
that diagram will soon become obsolete, as players advance through it
well it depends...
 
4:27 PM
@Golo, no, this seems WOW to me too, you're not alone if you're intimidated, I know I am
 
Well, i keep the diagram to show how they progressed, so later I can show them the path they took through the adventure
BUT I only prepare one layer per game.
 
to my group showing GM documents is haram
 
oh, always after the campaign is finished
 
even with finished games
 
"look at all the cool stuff!"
 
4:28 PM
Oh, by the way, one thing I've found Fate lets me do well is PLAY my characters as a GM
 
we've voted and they've said no
 
rather than pretend "not to be the goblins"
 
huh
 
they want to keep the prestige unknown
although we do talk about HOW we work our stuff, between GMs
 
well, if they don't want to, they don't have to do that
but I want to see my GM's notes!
 
4:29 PM
funny thing I remember that happened
 
I'm actually going to be writing one of these fairly soon for June session start
I can show you a clean one when I'm done.
 
we had a LAN party, and I had my GM papers in a pen drive, along with some games
@eimyr I would LOVE to see that!
 
Me too!
 
Alright. I'll try to remember to tag you both.
 
so I gave the pen drive to a friend of mine so he could download the games we were going to play in said LAN
he also downloaded my GM stuff!
 
4:30 PM
ooooh
 
intentionally might I add
and yes, he was a player
 
Guys, here's a hypothetical idea
Common complaint for D&D is the learning a huge amount of mechanics just for combat, right
 
and character progression... I just cannot grasp it
 
What would change if that was able to be represented well in a video game?
The combat happens in a Heroes *-like encounter
 
hmm I have also thought about that
 
4:34 PM
then after it's back to the table
 
and the rest is PnP
have combat in a computer program
 
I can see it being fictionally jarring, but is it really more so than number crunching?
 
the closest thing to that I did
is using a MapTool script which automated most of the characters combat actions
 
Especially if it's a text-based/minimalistically graphics'd game
 
and by automate I mean, calculate damage etc
 
4:36 PM
mhm
 
text-based... that'd be much better
the problem with maptool is that building maps for every encounter is a huge chore
at least to me
 
Maybe even a part of char-creation is setting up what your attacks... sound like?
 
heh that'd be fine
 
One mage might have "* throws a focused bolt of force at *" and another might have "I conjure up blades of ether that savagely rip at the *"
 
I like the minimalistic approach
that is... the program just tells you the raw data
and you as GM/player describe exactly what you've done
I think the point of such a... technique? would be to relieve clutter from combat
 
4:38 PM
@AlexMitan System needed to create these mechanics are non-trivial. I know, I design similar systems for a living.
There is also an issue of mode switching - imagine how immersion would suffer if suddenly everyone huddles around the pc
 
@eimyr Interrobang
True
 
then, people like to roll dice, typing them in is tedious
 
@eimyr we had a huge screen connected by HDMI
 
I was actually working on something Fate fans might see as profane... making Fate AIs fight each other to fine-tune balancing mobs
 
and virtual dice take away the fun
 
4:40 PM
the GM would input their decisions
 
finally, there WAS an attempt at that - dnd 4e
it was designed to be supported by a laptop app
we all know how it went
 
Yyyup
What do you design though?
 
Me?
Expert systems supporting non-statistical reasoning for geologists.
 
Yep
Ooh okay
Non-statistical reasoning?
 
what is non-...
what he asked
 
4:43 PM
The systems in question do not use statistical analysis of the data, but external knowledge embedded in it.
 
like a responsive database?
 
something like that
 
why would they prefer that over statistics?
I mean statistics are STRONG
 
basically it can answer the question "is X good" without having to compare it to Y
 
can you put a practical example?
 
4:44 PM
say you're looking for a red apple among lots of apples
statistical approach is to measure all apples and find the reddest ones
non-statistical approach would examine each apple on its own merit of redness
 
I'm still as puzzled, sorry
 
hmmm
ok, you see three animals of unknown species
you know the length of their necks
find a giraffe
if you say "oh, a giraffe has the longest neck" it's statistical
 
I like it
I've been messing with a bit of statistics lately
 
if you say "oh, a giraffe can have a neck between X and Y" it's non-statistical
 
is it not?
well it's raw data
statistical would be to analyze all the measurements to reach a conclusion
 
4:49 PM
no, because you don't give a damn about other animals, just this particular one neck
 
I see I see
 
And who inputs the thresholds? Human intelligence?
 
so, non statistical fails if there is a snake with a REALLY long neck.
statistical fails if there is no giraffe
@AlexMitan depends on the system :) most of the times that knowledge is part of the system
now, this is gross simplification, but an evocative one
I can't give you any particular work-related examples.
it should have went to Not A Bar anyway
 
"People think they need to try to prepare themselves for every conceivable action the PCs might take. But, in point of fact, that’s not situation-based prep. That’s plot-based prep juiced up on Choose Your Own Adventure steroids."
this made me laugh
 
@BESW Could you please move from chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/28803320#28803320 to here to NAB?
@Golokopitenko very true
 
4:52 PM
What tools do you use, eimyr?
 
it's how I thought pro-GMs did
 
Do you use a programming language or do you do hands-on research??
 
brb walking the dog
 
I have a very poor idea what a "brains" job is like outside of programming
 
@AlexMitan It involves programming, yes, and knowledge gathering too. Can't really say more at this point.
 
4:53 PM
Is it ssseeeeecret?
 
Not secret, but my boss might not like me leaking any details that are not public as of today.
So I'd rather say less than more.
 
ok, I'm just going to ask, is it R or Python by any chance?
Okay, okay
 
@AlexMitan roll Motive
 
@Golokopitenko What I prepare for using the Layer Cake of nodes is that I set up "event triggers". E.g. "the Huns attack when the players a) leave the city, b) it's past 24th April c) are provoked d) the players made Investigation plotline irrelevant
 
I'm honestly looking forward your GM stuff
and now I'm really off, cya guys
 
4:55 PM
@AlexMitan I couldn't possibly confirm or deny such accusations.
 
Okay, I respect that, sorry, I just get really excited about stuff like this
 
no worries
 
I gotta go for a bit, I'm really tired and too plugged-in
Have a good night everyone!
 
Unfortunately my techniques for GM prep are paper-heavy
I end up with lots of notes
Cheers!
 
0
Q: RPG moderators behavior standards

SimanosI'm not sure if this is the proper area to post this question. Please inform me to move it where appropriate. Is it proper for a moderator to tell a user "we're not your shrinks."? In a "discussion" about politeness ("Be Nice" principle) no less... Do we need better and clearer standards in re...

 
 
1 hour later…
6:10 PM
what does it mean we are not your shrinks, I'm not familiar with this expression
 
@Sejanus According to Google:

nouninformal
1.
a psychiatrist.
"you should see a shrink"
 
geez
I wonder what was the conversation about that a mod felt a need to say this to someone :))
 
@waxeagle how is tomorrow night looking?
 
6:34 PM
@JoshuaAslanSmith unfortunately probably a no-go
 
7:29 PM
@eimyr what program do you use to make the node thingies?
 
none at the moment
I used to draw it by hand and it worked reasonably well
 
ohhh... I'm more a digital guy
I have all my stuff on Drive
 
man
I've had a site with a program I wanted to use for that
I can't find it now.
I can't remember anything baout it
 
7:47 PM
OK, I'd like to use Scalar for the next campaign.
@Golokopitenko mostly because for me prepping means producing LOTS of papers and in the heat of the game it's hard to keep track of my notes unless I give them a lot of structure
I've been looking for something like a book-writing software but I"m too miserly to shell out for Scrivener, so I'm going to try to use this instead.
 
8:12 PM
@Nitsua60 I have a new task for you and your kid: youtube.com/watch?v=GzLvqCTvOQY
 
@eimyr hey you know... piracy is a thing nowadays
 
Nah.
 
I'm trying to watch a video about Scalar but my <1mbps connection is not having it
what does it do?
 
it's a book writing software
 
is it better than google drive?
 
8:22 PM
I'm not too familiar with it, but in general it allows you to do everything from writing to idea retention to organisation to simplistic paging
Depends what you want.
Google drive is a cloud storage + office suite
this is a more specialised organiser/writer/layout designer
How are you doing with your prep?
 
9:02 PM
@eimyr Interesting take on it. My three year-old, at 1:55: "he's definitely going to have to wash his hands!"
 
Absolutely.
There is one where he makes a wood shed and finds a broken wild bee hive.
Then proceeds to eat the honey with a random straw
I think Nitsua3 might object.
 
Sound of Cylons http://atomic-chronoscaph.tumblr.com/post/142343984733/scottpatrick-hello-baltar-my-old-friend https://t.co/mWWw6Oi9lk
 
@BESW Actual audible LOL
 
:28812283 That's Cybermen. Or possibly Movellans. Easy mistake.
 
They looked Whovian, but it says Cylons.
 
9:09 PM
Original BSG had a lower budget than some Classic Who.
 
I only watched the reboot.
They still recycled lots of shots. CGI is expensive.
 
book writing soft?
in what ways is it better than i.e. ms word? :/
 
OH BOY
MS word is a word processor
 
For a straight-up alternative to MS Word, try LibreOffice. What with it being free and all.
 
I mean I dont get it what book writing is so special that ms word is not enough ;) genuinely curious
 
9:12 PM
it's OK, but it doesn't do layouts very well. It can't handle huge documents well. It's also mixing writing and editing.
 
@BESW that was just an example. I use open office myself
 
But for actual book-writing software, check out Scrivener videos to see what features it's offering.
 
dedicated book writing software is much, much simpler and compartmentalised
 
hm I guess I will. I might very well find it useful
 
you have writing interface where you don't care about editing. editing interface where you don't write etc.
 
9:13 PM
And for book layout software, InDesign and Scribus are common standards.
 
thanks I will check it, sounds interesting
 
I use InDesign for my professional layout work.
 
@BESW Do you know Scribus too?
 
I'm aware of it, but haven't used it.
Its reputation is that it has most of the features of InDesign, but is notably clunkier, particularly in its learning curve.
 
Have you used Publisher?
 
9:15 PM
Scribus is used by many indie RPG publishers because it's free, so there are RPG-specific tutorials out there.
 
I only used regular word processors :)
ms word, libre, open office writer, and whatever mac has
 
@eimyr Not since the accident.
 
It's a great response to every question.
Now, what is the accident, I beg your pardon?
 
@Sejanus A client once insisted I design and layout an anthology textbook in MS Word. [shudder] Word has a tendency to re-build its layout from the ground up every time you re-open the file, and if two commands interact with each other sequentially, it may randomly switch up the sequence.
@eimyr The first and last time I used Publisher was in high school when the main office had me help them with a layers problem.
 
... I just learned my morning commute pick-me-up sing-a-long song has an OR instead of AND in the most essential line of lyrics, which completely changes its message
 
9:26 PM
lol
 
Studio Killers - Ode to the Bouncer
 
A very catchy song.
 
I would link it here, but it's very NSFW, especially the music video
 
But, yes, that's a very important conjunction.
#ARRPG has been OGL-ified! http://spiritoftheblank.blogspot.com/2016/04/atomic-robo-ogl-rules-now-availableyes.html
 
Indeed. My former understanding implies promiscuity, my current - violence. Also, the bouncer in question appears as less immoral with an OR.
@BESW BESW oh BESW, thank you! wonderful news!
 
9:31 PM
@eimyr Yeah. I kinda feel the mondegreen fits the overall tone of the piece better.
 
@eimyr isn't that an animation?
 
@Sejanus it is, but it's quite NSFW both in video and audio
 
Noted. So, RPGs, huh?
 
oh cool, it was an interesting conversation so of course it should be moved somewhere else
 
9:40 PM
Yeah, to an appropriate place where we can continue without disturbing other people.
 
I would like to gush about ARRPG's OGL. Should I do that in a side room instead?
 
I am terribly sorry for disturbing you, good people
would you forgive me please
 
@BESW no this is the propper place
 
@Sejanus You seem to take it personally.
 
I just don't want to disturb anybody :(
 
9:41 PM
The ARRPG OGL includes mechanics from the upcoming Majestic 12 release.
 
have a good night guys
 
And no one wants to disturb you, I assure you. Let's go to NAB
 
Mission briefing as a brainstorming-like mechanic looks pretty awesome.
 
What is Majestic 12 again?
 
It's a top secret post-WWII American weapons and defence program.
It's so top secret, not even most of the people working for it know what it's doing.
 
user15026
9:44 PM
@BESW That does sound pretty great.
 
user15026
I wish I could get a group of people together to run...well, just about anything really
 
So, a mission briefing is a pretty typical "Here's what you know, some it is wrong" type deal and you make an aspect out of the mission's code name.
 
@AshleyNunn well,... our main campaign has not gone forward in several weeks XD
 
user15026
@trogdor I just don't have any local people really interested whose schedules also match mine :P
 
@BESW I assume you don't immediately decide what the some of it that is wrong is?
 
9:46 PM
Then the GM asks each player to tell: an obstacle the party can expect to encounter, and a skill that will be vital for the mission's success;
 
@AshleyNunn well,.... the schedule thing is a problem for us sometimes, though we don't have the people problem
 
@trogdor Yeah, no. It's mostly just that mission intel is often inaccurate, so don't sweat getting everything perfect or if the story veers away from the intel.
 
ah ok
 
user15026
If I could find people, I'm sure we could make scheduling work, but I've not had much luck. Wonder if I could find people for some sort of online group.
 
to be fair, we had trouble getting people together for a while too
that just isn't our main problem anymore
 
9:49 PM
Then each player rolls for resources (exactly what skill depends on the context). Successes stack fate points on the mission aspect; they can be used by the PCs during the mission to invoke any aspect, but only to improve or re-roll a mission-critical skill.
I really like this, and think it'll help a lot with some of the things our group's been struggling with.
There's also some Majestic 12 variants for invention that make it a bit simpler and faster.
 
10:18 PM
I'm trying to figure whether or not I should use a mission briefing structure for our first session, despite the mission being rather nebulous. I think not.
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it doesn't seem like the right time for it
 
Yeah. I think I'll go with a bit more free-form to start.
 
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