TRPG General Chat

Tritium21

00:09

>.> is mine the only group that will spend 10 minutes role playing ordering at a diner?

BESW

I've had groups that do that.

Tritium21

00:33

...We literally take less time really ordering at a real diner.

welp, sorry for double posting, it kept 'retrying'

wax eagle

00:53

woot, WOTC's new app is now on android

BESW

What does it do?

wax eagle

appears to be a dragon magazine app, mostly serves articles

Tritium21

3.5 is now on drivethru ... last week PHB, this week MM (PHBII and all the sequal MMs have already been there). If i were to guess, DMG next week

wax eagle

@BESW yeah, serving up dragon magazine and WOTC blog content. looks like it might have dragon as a pay per issue service at some point, first one is free (naturally)

Miniman

@waxeagle Finally!

wax eagle

00:57

@Miniman yeah, I was sad last week when it was IOS only

Miniman

@waxeagle Me too. Even though I have an Android phone, I'm still hoping for a PC release too.

@waxeagle Just installed, thanks for the headsup!

Tritium21

cheat...use an android emulator!

Miniman

@Tritium21 Heh, kinda breaks the point though.

BESW

Adeptus

01:20

@BESW I had to Google Image Search to see why that image was relevant...

BESW

I would've thought Hot Fuzz had done a little to refresh the popular culture's awareness of Point Break.

Adeptus

I don't remember the reference in Hot Fuzz. I did watch Point Break, but that was 20+ years ago

BESW

Point Break was a major touchstone of Danny's life. It's the first film he showed Nick Angel, and the scene of shooting in the air rather than shooting someone you love, which he referenced--and then re-enacted with his father--is from Point Break.

doppelgreener

01:46

@BESW i suggest we should only request close votes and reopens and other moderation actions here when they absolutely need urgent decisive action

a regular question not needing any faster attention than usual should just progress through the reopen queue

Miniman

@doppelgreener Does that include VTCs? Because often a question just isn't getting any when it needs them.

doppelgreener

otherwise that is the point where chat begins to override site processes, and other less active users feel like they were not given sufficient opportunity to respond

@Miniman edited, yes

"when it needs them" is when it should be brought here

BESW

@doppelgreener In this particular case, the question had already been subject to so many votes that I was unsure if it would find enough people to re-open it in the natural way of things.

doppelgreener

02:07

@BESW I might be missing something, but with the question i'm talking about, it only went through three votes in the review queue

and between revision and reopening there was only about an hour

BESW

I could have mis-read it.

doppelgreener

it did not seem to need extra attention yet

i think you might have!

BESW

[shrug]

I also put my thoughts on why it should be re-opened, more eloquently, in a comment.

So it's not like chat-exclusive decisions were made.

And it was being actively edited, so it stayed in sight on the main queue.

doppelgreener

02:23

Sure. I am poking at this because it is one of the issues that might make non-chat users unhappy with chat users. But also you have a fever, you may have misread, etc. I will leave this to you to revisit later when you've pulled through your fever.

BESW

I get where you're coming from, but I think this is an edge case at most.

The big concern is when main-site actions occur that don't make sense without chat context.

wax eagle

02:46

@doppelgreener I'll be honest, whatever gets something closed the fastest is what we should do

if posting something in here gets it closed quicker, then it should get put in here.

BESW

I have this vision where Thanos and Nick Fury get together to talk about the importance of post-credit sequences.

Tweeted by UrsulaV on May 6, 2015 at 2:42 AM

doppelgreener

03:21

@waxeagle closing when it's very clear it should be closed: yes. reopening when there's no danger of anything timing out yet: not so much. closing when it's not clear if should be closed: also not so much.

@BESW The other big concern is when "the chat gang" goes around doing moderation like a unanimous strike squad before anyone else can have a say. There are people who precisely do not like people coming to chat with a close vote request, for instance. I think it's good we do that when we absolutely unambiguously need something closed rapidly, but that is where part of the sentiments are.

I recall someone complaining the site would be run by whoever happened to be the most active, and that's how it works anyway, but that's also one of the sentiments: people from chat rushing things through in minutes when there would be time for others checking in every hour or so to get involved otherwise.

Miniman

@doppelgreener The Chat Gang, wanted dead or alive for multiple cases of chatting both on- and off-topic.

detly

Quick Q: Is there a widely accepted guide for starting "wealth" (eg. gold or value of equipment or minimum necessary stuff) by level in 5e? I know 5e's economy is quite different from previous systems, but I'm building a character who isn't starting at level 1, and it would be nice to make sure I don't accidentally miss something vital.

I get the idea that L1 starting equipment will actually be perfectly adequate up to about L7/8, because of 5e's flattish nature, so maybe it's just something I need to ask the DM and other players about

Like, maybe it's a group-specific thing

*D&D 5e, sorry, I've been shortening it all day

Miniman

@detly Not really, but it doesn't matter - mundane equipment is cheap, and magic equipment can only be found, not bought, so starting wealth is basically a matter of "as much mundane equipment as seems reasonable and no magic equipment".

detly

Okay, that's what I though, thanks :)

Miniman

That said, if most of your players have X magic items, giving a new player X magic items might be a good idea so they don't feel excluded

wax eagle

03:35

@detly the DMG has a starting wealth table

detly

Oh really? I have the DMG at home, I must have missed it

good catch

wax eagle

page 38

it's broad strokes, basically 1 category per tier

detly

I was way off, I was looking at treasure tables trying to figure out the cumulative effect

Miniman

@MagRoader I was writing a comment about your meta post when you deleted it: I didn't downvote, but I don't feel that this answer really answers this question - this is a good answer to a meta about trivial or obvious (RTFM) questions, but this meta is about questions asking for the rules on something, not about the rules on something.

detly

too much 4e holdover I guess

wax eagle

03:37

@detly yeah, definitely a very different wealth paradigm

Miniman

@detly Apparently I missed (or possibly just forgot) it too, and I've spent an embarassing amount of time reading the DMG, so don't feel bad

detly

hah :P

Miniman

@MagRoader Note also that we do answer trivial questions, we just tend to downvote them as well; there's lots of examples of this around, such as this.

Tritium21

One more vote and purple monkey gets a gold badge

Mag Roader

03:54

@Miniman From reading @SevenSidedDie's comments it became clear that I had misinterpreted the question itself. At his/her suggestion I opened up a new meta question here: meta.rpg.stackexchange.com/q/5554/84

The Oracle

0

Q: Are basic questions frowned upon here?

Via several comments and meta posts such as this one, I get the impression that people would rather not be answering basic questions on this site, especially ones that can be answered directly by quoting source material. Complicated questions certainly get the most play, discussion, and longest-w...

discussion

Mag Roader

@Miniman Yeah, I noticed that they do get answered, and the answers are highly upvoted. But the questions themselves are slammed, and I find that sad.

BESW

15

Q: Is this site for experts, or not?

On the one hand, this question here about what RPG.SE is, and this answer here about answering FATE questions, specify "[this site] is a collection of expert knowledge" and "Expert questions to be answered by Experts". On the other hand, the help page states Anybody can ask a question An...

discussion faq

Specifically:

27

A: Is this site for experts, or not?

If you play RPGs, you're an expert and welcome. The line "Asking Expert questions, getting expert answers" has a particular history dating to when it was just the original three sites. "Expert questions" was important because they didn't want to teach askers the basics of how to program. Being a...

There's a difference between "I read the manual and I need help understanding it" and "I don't appear to have read the rules, so I want you to tell me about them."

2

BESW

04:41

@ursulav The underlying logic of Norse myths really suffers when you make the central figures sober, yeah.

Tweeted by PhilSandifer on May 6, 2015 at 4:34 AM in reply to UrsulaV

Also, Ms. Vernon has analysed the behaviour of Thor's Hammer in the films and concluded:

If Stark was really as smart as he thinks he is, he'd tie Mjollnir to a golden retriever.

Tweeted by UrsulaV on May 6, 2015 at 4:38 AM

Miniman

@MagRoader I'm actually really glad you asked that meta question; it allowed me to scavenge the best bits out of my answer to a subsequently closed question.

BESW

Aye, it's a good question to have answered.

Tritium21

05:14

is our rate of questions accelerating? we crossed 10k not too terribly long ago, and we are now close to 12k

Axoren

06:10

Anyone got a quick answer about a Shadowrun 5e question? If you have Cyber Eyes and Cyber Ears, do you need a comm link to do comm link things?

If not, I'll post a question on the site.

Wibbs

07:06

that sys-rec question is attract really, really poor answers :/

BESW

If I were feeling up to it, I'd go through saying "can you update your answer based on the querent's new info?" and so forth on each one.

Wibbs

@BESW consider it done

Adeptus

@Axoren In 1e/2e, yes. Not sure about 5e.

Axoren

@Adeptus Is the reason for that that without the comm link you have nothing to connect the sound link and image link to?

Wibbs

07:21

I'd be wary of assuming things from 1/2e apply in 5e as there are a lot of difference, at least partly because of the advanced timeframe

Adeptus

@Axoren Yep. The eyes & ears just replace the natural functions unless you add other bits (eg, amplification, thermo/lowlight, commlink, etc). Like I said, this is based on 1e/2e, no idea if it's changed since.

Axoren

Alright, thanks guys.

Got a couple of people on Skype and we're making characters at each other.

So some things didn't seem right

Players wanting to be deckers without any cyberware, etc

And then were got to this one and it was borderline

BESW

08:01

Tonight in Cooking Feverishly, I'm turning leftover garbanzo-and-tuna curry sandwich spread into a tomatoey sauce for capellini noodles.

This is accomplished mostly by throwing it in a pan, doubling down on the appropriate spices that I already put into the sandwich spread last night, and adding a giant squirt of organic ketchup, then simmering for a while.

trogdor

lol

this sounds like a bad idea to me somehow

BESW

My mother was very surprised that it tasted good.

trogdor

08:19

hehe

I would be too

Aaron

12:23

Good morning

Wibbs

afternoon

BESW

Evenin'.

sillyputty

hullo

David Reeve

16:03

quiet today, huh?

MadMAxJr

16:24

Anybody with experience in 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder have any DM tips/insight on handling a player taking the Leadership feat?

David Reeve

well for one they don't just get cohorts and followers out of thin air

they have to seek out followers and cohorts and convince them to join up

MadMAxJr

That part isn't a huge issue. For the cohort, they're going to acquire one of the influential NPCs of the campaign. For followers, they're aware they have to basically attract, fund, and equip however many they try to get.

Seems to be a lot of paperwork management and that's a lot more bodies in combat.

David Reeve

i ban leadership in my games because it leads to a lot of headaches

MadMAxJr

The only thing I banned is cohorts taking the leadership feat.

Pureferret

18:29

I'm starting to get the hang of Labrynth

BESW

20:48

@MadMAxJr Well, a lot of it depends on why they took the feat.

MadMAxJr

20:59

@BESW To nab a story NPC they really like as a cohort.

BESW

Hmm. Interesting.

MadMAxJr

The player in question isn't likely to abuse it, but I'm concerned about the sheer amount of paperwork they have to manage to have a cohort and followers in a fight

BESW

Welp. Followers shouldn't be mechanically useful in fights. They're designed not to be.

Followers are very handy and ego-boosting, but in a fight they're little more than roadbumps.

Screaming, squishy roadbumps that try to flee.

2

MadMAxJr

Yeah, figured I'd use the NPC codex for various level 1s and a level 2.

They're probably going to pull multiple level 1 clerics to have a healing battery.

BESW

Consider followers to be out-of-combat, role-playing benefits. I'd usually say they follow similar rules to hirelings, except for being free and slightly more likely to do something dangerous.

Cohorts.... well, yeah, in 3.5 that's a serious bump to combat mechanics.

MadMAxJr

21:05

Yeah. The main thing I stressed is that a cohort comes with gear, followers do not. All of them are likely going to expect pay. A cohort clearly expects loot equal to at least half a players take.

BESW

My usual strategy is to make 'em as simple as possible.

MadMAxJr

The party has considered starting a guildhouse, so I suggested some of the follower slots be people in service to you to start construction while you're out on quest.

BESW

That's pretty good! And once the guildhouse is built, they can man it.

MadMAxJr

Her leadership rating gets her 10 level 1s and a level 2 follower.

She's pondered contracting a mercenary company to tend to some smaller affairs, or look for information on quest hooks they can't follow right away. I stressed to her that while she can command these people and I'll let her dictate their actions in combat, I will remain in control of their motives, agenda, and reactions.

The cohort is closer in her zone of control, so I'll let her take more control there in combat and in roleplay.

Still, building a guildhouse is just cost of labor, materials, and lodging. Builders are mere silvers a day, gold if you want quality.

It's just going to increase overhead on table management.

BESW

Yeah. Leadership is... not a feat to be taken lightly.

MadMAxJr

21:09

The other factor I made clear is they will not pop up overnight for taking the feat.

She can acquire the cohort immediately, but she'll need to actively recruit followers. And in their location, that'll bias how many and what kinds of backgrounds will be available.

BESW

I've seen it used to increase the combat effectiveness of an exceptionally small party, and as part of a frankly appalling plan for one PC to turn into the leader of an NPC army.

MadMAxJr

That's what I'm afraid of. This party is a group of 5 (technically 6, one is a summoner w/eidolon)

Level 9, so the cohort is a solid ranger that'll be level 7...

I've already been artifically inflating monster HP values and sometimes tossing a few more monsters into encounters.

The party is a little weak on healing. A multiclassed cleric and another a multiclassed paladin, neither with more than 3 levels in it.

Potions like crazy.

BESW

(The "NPC army" idea involved being a necromancer with Leadership and Undead Leadership to boost the number of soldiers above what could be controlled with magic. Wound up with something like 125 HD of NPC at level 12, I think.)

MadMAxJr

Way back in Sandpoint, their actions indirectly got the leader of the church there killed, so several faiths see this party with scorn or guilt. So I'm using that as justification that it will be hard to get follower clerics.

But after reading Q&A on here about Leadership, I agreed with a comment and banned the practice of a cohort taking Leadership.

Not that she'd do that, but I wanted to slam that door shut before they were aware it was there.

BESW

By the same token: no vampire cohorts.

MadMAxJr

21:15

I also asked that she keep them to core classes or NPC classes.

That isn't a hard requirement, but those are the ones I can cough up quickly thanks to the NPC Codex.

Pureferret

No?

BESW

That's a vampire's cohort. Totally different.

MadMAxJr

No Dhampir cohorts or followers either. You don't wanna be the guy who killed a bunch of minions by trying to use healing.

I may however ask the party that I would like to limit the party and suggest nobody else take leadership or the game will lose scope of them being adventurers and becoming guildhouse management.

Though I am amused by the idea, that in the event of a TPK, we can pan the story camera over to the minions and have them start over from there.

BESW

Yeah, talk to 'em about the potential benefits and pitfalls of this.

And remember, Leadership says, right there in the text, that it's a "GM Approval Only" option.

MadMAxJr

It's okay. This is a way easier topic to handle than the other one that popped up in our group. A fighter with the Archer archetype getting 'trick shot' allowing them to use melee combat tricks that rely on a weapon (trip, sunder), with a ranged weapon. CMB works off STR. Ranged weapons work off DEX.

Weapon Finesse FAQ sets a precedent that if a weapon uses a DEX bonus as the attack modifier, it should work on the CMB too. But I spent a ton of time trying to look up a RAW clarification. None exists. Then hunted Paizo boards till I found the author commenting on a related topic but not exact, and tried to determine intent.

The author clarified that if a Fighter with this Archer ability uses a range attack to feint, they also benefit from the feint at range (as feint itself implies it is a melee benefit). I used that to reason that the author would intend that they meant for ranged weapon tricks to benefit from being based on ranged statistics.

Not a RAW, but the best I could do.

Dyndrilliac

21:43

Hey guys, I'm interested in posting a question involving the optimization of a D&D Deep Gnome Illusionist Wizard. However, given the subjective nature of illusions, I'm having a tough time coming up with reasonably answerable reqs. What are some good metrics for comparison between Illusionists for determining an optimization specializing in Charms, Illusions/Trickery, and general Crowd Control?

Specifically I'm looking to compare multiclassing options: pure Wizard vs Wizard 18/Warlock 2 for example, and how to best achieve maximum acquisition of Intelligence related feats and at-will illusion spells while also maximizing Intelligence.

MadMAxJr

Which edition?

Dyndrilliac

Sorry, 5th edition.

MadMAxJr

Can't help there. Haven't looked at that one beyond the starter box.

Been a quiet day in here, someone else might have ideas.

Pureferret

@Dyndrilliac Spell DCs, number of targets, length of time removed from combat

Dyndrilliac

@Pureferret Are those likely to change based on limited multiclassing though? For example, 2 different illusionists, both with 20 in Intelligence and access to 9th-level Wizard spells, will likely have an equivalent spell save DC, their spells can effect the same number of targets due to having access the the same spell levels. When I cast Hypnotic Pattern, I am subject to the same duration limits as any other creature casting that spell.

Pureferret

21:53

@Dyndrilliac That might be your answer then

Dyndrilliac

@Pureferret You mean that there is no optimal configuration?

Pureferret

@Dyndrilliac Maybe...? I'm not an optimizer really

MadMAxJr

9th level wizard spells are the answer to TONS of things.

Dyndrilliac

I'm trying to decide whether I want to go Illusionist Wizard all 20 levels for my last Ability Score Improvement (which I would spend on a feat) and the Signature Spells Wizard capstone ability; or dip two levels of Warlock for light armor, more cantrips, at-will Disguise Self, at-will Silent Image, and at-will 30 foot telepathy.

MadMAxJr

I would weigh in the pros/cons of how the two builds would synergize with builds planned by other PCs

If the splash of Warlock grants more synergy/usefulness with multiple players, it may outweigh the loss of the full 20 stack.

Dyndrilliac

22:05

I'm sure my team-mates would prefer I get Signature Spells so I can have Haste always prepared and cast it once per day for free.

Particularly the martial team-mates.

Pureferret

@Dyndrilliac I don't think 5th edition is so built around the idea that the martial player need haste and similar spells to function attheir level

Dyndrilliac

22:20

@Pureferret That's true but whether they need it or not, I'm sure if they were given the choice, they would pick Haste as one of my signature spells. I will most likely choose Major Image and Hypnotic Pattern though. So my dilemma is basically which is better: getting a feat and casting Major Image and Hypnotic Pattern each once per day for free, or utility cantrips and at-will Disguise Self/Silent Image/Telepathy.

Pureferret

@Dyndrilliac Which is more in character?

Dyndrilliac

Both, which is what makes this such a difficult choice. I can envision many situations in which both would be not only useful but also excellent RP material.

I'm leaning toward the Warlock dip though.

Pureferret

@Dyndrilliac Come to the warlock side, we have r'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

wax eagle

22:45

grrr first IRL game in almost a year and it's cancelled because 1/3 of the group got called in to work...sewage explosion...

Pureferret

@waxeagle Blame those ninjas

Miniman

@Dyndrilliac Don't forget, you're also missing out on an ability score increase, and a 5th and a 6th level spell slot.

Not to mention 4 spells for your spellbook.

wax eagle

yeah...sadly half of the third is my wife so home with kids :|

Grubermensch

23:08

@waxeagle We on to play tomorrow?

wax eagle

@Grubermensch yes! let me hang up an event after I get the kids in bed

doppelgreener

23:21

@BESW Hey, how're you holding up today?

BESW

Today the chipmunks in my sinuses have been reduced to fuzzy caterpillars.

doppelgreener

Oh good!

BESW

How is your Internets?

doppelgreener

We applied last night with a provider who actually is showing a high degree of professionality so far and has a high probability of not screwing us over completely!

BESW

Percentages of screwed with fewer than three digits before the decimal are better than the other way round.

Shalvenay

23:37

@doppelgreener -- who? :D

doppelgreener

@Shalvenay Optus.

Shalvenay

aaah, haven't heard of 'em for much

cable, DSL, or some other technology?

doppelgreener

They are one of Australia's primary providers of... anything in communications.

Shalvenay

aaah

Adeptus

@Shalvenay I'm guessing that's cos you're not in Australia ;)

Shalvenay

23:40

that sounds...heartening to hear ;)

doppelgreener

DSL, our house can't get cable without mucking around for even longer.

Shalvenay

that one of your major telcos has a high probability of not screwing you over completely!

doppelgreener

@BESW Yes! This provider has so far had a 0% screwing us over rate. They did not even want up-front payment; they are content to take our first payment whenever later on after service has started.

Shalvenay

(OTOH: we are gifted in our city with one of the rare few cable companies that has a high probability of not screwing you over completely)

Adeptus

We've got Telstra/Bigpond cable. And NBN is rolling out around the neighbourhood - not sure if/when we'll get it though.

Knowing our luck, they'll stop a block away from us :P

DuckTapeAl

23:44

Is there a way to see stuff that's been posted to the chat feed? I'm looking for something to read while a game patches, and I figure there's probably interesting stuff there.

Miniman

NBN isn't all it's cracked up to be, though. I have ADSL2+ from Telstra, and it beats the hell out of my parent's NBN from Optus.

@DuckTapeAl Sort of.

DuckTapeAl

Aha. So there isn't like, an RSS that you can point to?

Damn.

Miniman

Not that I know of, but I'm quite definitely a rank amateur on this sort of thing.

BESW

This is our list of feeds.

It's not really very comprehensive if you're looking to scroll through individual items.

DuckTapeAl

@BESW Aww. It's especially disheartening to hear that from you. If anyone would know, it would be you.

Oh, well.

Dyndrilliac

23:49

@Miniman True, but the spell picks I lose via levelling Wizard can be regained during play by finding scrolls and raiding other Wizard's spell books. The feat is more significant, but all of my crucial choices [Svirfneblin Magic and Resilient (CON)] are already accounted for. I only need two ASI's to max out Intelligence, so I could stand to lose the last one if it provided enough incentive.

BESW

@DuckTapeAl Yar. If chat is second-class for Stack, the chat ticker is, like, fourth-class.

Miniman

@Dyndrilliac Yeah, I didn't think it would change your mind, just figured I'd point it out.

Transcript for