TRPG General Chat

doppelgreener

00:04

Could a mod unfreeze our dice playground?

@Emrakul Could you update the description of the room to describe our dice rules?

I'm about to post the Fudge dice script on Stackapps, so our chat rooms might be about to get some attention from people curious about our dice and I'd like to funnel that attention there.

BESW

And/or @waxeagle.

doppelgreener

Can waxeagle edit the description? I pinged Emrakul 'cause he owns the room.

BESW

I'm pretty sure he can at least grant you ownership.

Miniman

@doppelgreener Any mod can edit chat rooms, I think.

BESW

Mods are generally gods in chatrooms.

doppelgreener

00:11

Excellent

Miniman

(Since chat is site-agnostic, even if it looks like it's not.)

BESW

00:33

@Miniman Well, barring various fiddly bits like our dice roller.

doppelgreener

PSA: in addition to our [tag:thing] syntax, we have [meta-tag:thing] syntax. Behold its meta-tag referencing power: no-really-we-mean-it, versus the plebeian no-really-we-mean-it

Grubermensch

@Miniman While I agree for downvotes, I still believe that we should comment for non-trivial close votes, even though this can't be a site policy.

Miniman

@Grubermensch I definitely agree with you there.

@doppelgreener Woooaaaah.

Adeptus

grey-tag black-tag

Grubermensch

one-tag two-tag

BESW

00:41

i-would-not-tag-it-in-a-box

Adeptus

i-do-not-like-grey-tags-and-ham

BESW

horton-hears-a-bad-subjective-question?

meta-tag-sneetches and main-site-tag-sneetches

Grubermensch

oh-the-things-you-will-tag

Miniman

00:57

hunchtags-in-bunchtags

Grubermensch

i-speak-for-the-tags

doppelgreener

0

Q: RPG.SE Chat Fudge dice: a userscript for Fate & Fudge games

Available on Greasy Fork: RPG.SE Chat Fudge Dice RPG.SE's chat rooms support dice rolls as an easter egg. This script will convert d6 rolls into Fudge dice, using the ordinary conversion rules: 1–2 = minus, 3–4 = blank, 5–6 = plus You can enable or disable these dice on a per-room basis. It wil...

there we go, posted

Miniman

@doppelgreener That's pretty cool. Entirely useless as far as I'm concerned, but definitely cool.

doppelgreener

@Miniman thanks :)

Shalvenay

o/ @Emrakul

user61230

01:09

ello, @Shalvenay

Shalvenay

how's it going?

user61230

goes okay, you?

Shalvenay

muttering things about just how close Locate City is to the functionality provided by a real life VOR/DME system -- but just how far away it is in being tightly specified enough to function in place of one

(or -- how to navigate in cloudy skies in 3.5e)

Find the Path is insufficient (as I suspect you can't get holding fixes, procedure turns, and such out of it)

BESW

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[GameMechanics.SE](http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/80264 "in the Definition stage");
[ScaleModeling.SE](http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/82797/scale-modeling "in the Definition stage");
[Coffee.SE](http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/61013/coffee "in private beta!");
[Up to 4 Players](http://www.uptofourplayers.com/ "an autobiographical comic about Israeli gamers living in London");

3

Shalvenay

btw -- do you think a question about getting people to not read false emotional meanings into your character's expressions would be good for this site?

user61230

01:21

I'm not entirely sure it would be productive. The answer is ultimately "you need to write so that other people don't read things that aren't there," honestly.

user61230

also, I have not heard of these things above

Shalvenay

@Emrakul -- which things?

user61230

@Shalvenay the false emotional meanings, or anything else

Shalvenay

@Emrakul -- people thinking that your character's smile is creepy when you don't specify it, or assuming that your character is raising their voice when you never said so

user61230

same answer

user61230

01:25

you can't force people to read your writing differently, so you need to write differently

Shalvenay

I suppose I need a textbook on how to describe emotions :P because when you can't read your own, or other folks', bodies and faces for emotional cues, it becomes very hard to describe what emotions look like

user61230

This is a serious piece of advice. If you can't read your own emotions, or any on other people, or faces/emotional cues, and/or can't easily communicate how you or your character feel, it may be time to talk to a professional psychologist.

JohnP

@Emrakul I wondered how long that suggestion would take to arise.

BESW

@JohnP This is not the first time it's been made, nor the third.

Trying to change other peoples' responses to your actions, instead of analysing and changing your own actions, is generally going to fail. Most of your questions start "Other people are doing things wrong, how do I change them?" and that's usually a non-starter. You can change your actions, not other peoples', and if you don't know how to do that effectively--then seeking expert support is a good idea.

JohnP

It's the first time I've seen it, so in my worldview it's the first time it's been made. kind of like old stories aren't old if you've never heard them.

user61230

01:30

@Shalvenay While we genuinely do want you to enjoy your games as best as possible, what you've been describing isn't a localized problem. From what you've said, this is prevalent - and continuously interferes with - your life. A trained psychologist needs to be your first resource for that - we can't fill the role.

user61230

We can only try to help you play role-playing games better. There's some stuff we just can't do here.

Shalvenay

yeah -- well, the professional help I've received in the past (as well as family support) has gotten me to the point where I can function acceptably in face-to-face contact situations, but it's going from there to the world of the written word where it all falls over.

user61230

That makes sense. The world of written word is its own beast, and it can be complex to navigate. I'm glad you have support, though, and someone you've been (and hopefully still are?) working with.

user61230

I mean, I'd be happy to help how I can, but I'm just not sure what we can do. Broad questions are just that - broad, and will receive broad answers. It's hard to succinctly answer why these things are, because, as you know, there's no rooted logical basis for much of them.

Shalvenay

moving and college scrambled my schedulator badly, sadly -- I know I probably should get back to working with a professional on this, but it's a matter of getting my schedulator back on track and dealing with the limitations imposed by the rather pants public transit system around here

BESW

01:40

I hear you on the public transit problems.

user61230

Ahh, yeah, that makes sense.

user61230

Still, it sounds important, at least to me.

Shalvenay

@Emrakul -- important doesn't help practical

also -- insurance. nuff said.

(I have it; it's just that it'd probably be a whole song and dance routine to actually use it)

user61230

That's fair, and unfortunate. It's hard to give advice when I'm this far removed, but there's a way that will work, even if it's not simple to find.

Shalvenay

yeah. it's just a matter of finding it, and getting pieces into place...

user61230

01:46

It can be done.

BESW

01:58

Historical people of colour who fit classic adventuring tropes: pirates, knights, cowboys, explorers, romans and Egyptians and flying aces.

JohnP

Norse gods making a comeback: theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/02/…

I'd be partial to Heimdallr or Kvasir.

Miniman

02:31

@Shalvenay Incidentally, have you read the text of the actual Locate City spell?

Shalvenay

@Miniman -- BBS quoted at least part of it in his answer...

Miniman

@Shalvenay So...that's a no, then?

Shalvenay

although I googled for it, and didn't get a SRD link o.O

and that's a no, since I don't have Races of Destiny

Miniman

@Shalvenay There's your answer for why people are downvoting those questions, then.

No idea why there's a VTC on them though.

Shalvenay

OK -- just saw the spell text, and it's useless. "Locate City: find nearest city"

well, I mean -- it's just not well-defined enough for the purpose I want to put it to -- finding the nearest city well enough to plop a gryphon's feet in the town square without being able to see said town square until my char breaks out of a solid overcast 800' above said town square

user61230

02:40

@Shalvenay I think the device you are looking for is called a "map." :]

Shalvenay

@Emrakul -- a map is helpful as well, but you still need the navaid to link that map to ground reference when you can't see the ground!

[drops a VOR on @Emrakul]

BESW

@Emrakul Context is trying to find a magical equivalent to real-world instrument-only airplane flight navigation, suitable for use by a dragon.

Shalvenay

@BESW -- or whatever other fantasy flyer you wish to grab :) but yes.

Miniman

Given the number of RL species of birds that can migrate halfway across the world with near-perfect accuracy, why not just assume other flying species can do the same?

Better yet, why not just Enlarge a pigeon and use that?

BESW

mmm. The goal is instrument landings--which require much more precise feedback than just getting to the general area and then looking around.

Miniman

02:46

Ok, now I'm confused. Is this about navigation, or landing?

BESW

Basically, he wants a spell that lets a dragon fly normally in total white-out conditions.

Both.

But especially landing.

Jan 31 at 0:51, by Shalvenay

pondering dragons shooting ILS approaches :P

Miniman

Once again I'm forced to fall back on: But @Shalvenay, why?

BESW

Because he values extremely detailed simulation. For him, the fun of the game is in figuring this stuff out and then using that information to discover and solve problems. For you, I suspect, the fun is elsewhere and simply saying "The dragon hired a wizard to design a set of spells that make it work" is enough because the story, for you, is not in the mechanics of flight but in what you do with the ability to fly.

He's playing a game about how a dragon can fly with regulations and standards like aircraft have.

It's a puzzle.

(I wouldn't want to play that game, but I can see what he gets from it.)

Shalvenay

@Miniman -- landing in instrument conditions is a kind of navigation exercise (in fact, the ILS localizer is frequency and modulation compatible with VOR receivers, and there are also non-precision approaches based on such things as VORs and NDBs)

it just takes more precise navigation than enroute flying

if you're 2 miles off track in enroute flying, who gives a whoop? (sometimes, pilots in some areas will do that on purpose for safety reasons, even)

if you're 2 miles off track during landing though -- you can easily wind up bonking your head on a mountainside or twoer

*tower

@Miniman -- show me a pidgeon landing on a marked spot in 300' or even 1200' RVR conditions, and then I will be suitably impressed with your proposed solution :)

Miniman

@Shalvenay The point I guess I'm trying to make here is the "You should only ask practical, answerable questions based on actual problems that you face." Trying to build this system as a theoretical exercise is fun, and I completely understand that. But are you actually trying to implement this system in a game? If so, why?

Shalvenay

03:02

@Miniman -- I will be implementing something of this ilk, yes

doppelgreener

@Shalvenay I edited your question to ramble way less about our superior modern flight systems, and just say the thing you're doing.

BESW

@Miniman Yeah, that's the thing--the puzzle is the game: Figuring out the rules for the situation and then exploring their implications and complications in play.

Shalvenay

besides -- "the dragon hired a wizard to create a spell that emulates a RL ILS" would be a perfectly fine answer if I had a good way to explain to my DM what an ILS is and does and how it's used without the DM and the rest of the party trying to change the topic on me

BESW

It's a similar urge to armchair optimisation, but with the added interest of seeing it through in action.

Shalvenay

@BESW -- exactly -- it's an engineering game, if you will

(likewise, charopt is another manifestation of that game-engineering)

Miniman

03:05

@Shalvenay Ok, it sounds (again) as though your DM and the rest of your party aren't actually particularly interested in this.

Shalvenay

@Miniman -- which is why I'm trying to simplify and use existing tools as much as possible

but there are only certain degrees of simplification I can make before I can no longer reason about the system I'm working on

*working in

BESW

@Shalvenay If they aren't interested in the concept, perhaps you don't need to explain it to them OR adopt existing mechanics, for the simple reason that it won't come up in play unless you force it to.

Shalvenay

@BESW -- then I ask them "is it sunny all the time?" and they aren't interested in answering that either

Miniman

@BESW I was typing something similar, but you (once again) said it much more diplomatically than I did.

doppelgreener

@Shalvenay I wonder if "I hire a dragon and a wizard with Locate City to fly between places" would actually do enough for them. I'd be fine with it. I sure wouldn't ask for precise calculations and engineering solutions and so on: you have a dragon, it can be flown places, the guy won't get lost, great!

BESW

03:09

@doppelgreener Yeah, again, it comes down to Shalvenay needing more mechanical detail than the rest of the group does.

doppelgreener

I wouldn't begin to care about wind, altitude, heat and so on even if you mentioned to me.

Sure, but if this is for satisfying the rest of the group, they don't need any of this stuff to be satisfied, and they would probably be dissatisfied with it.

Miniman

@doppelgreener They might even be happy just with "I hire a dragon to fly between places."

BESW

The rest of the group would be fine with ignoring that, but he finds it almost impossible to be so blasé about handwaving something he knows so well in real-life.

It's kinda like... um... ahah. I know programmers who can't watch hacker films because the films don't care about detail and accuracy enough to explain how what they're showing works, and it bugs the programmer all to heck.

2

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener -- that's 95% of what I want, thanks to BBS's answers -- but I need that other 5% myself in order to say "hey, will this work with existing procedural tools"? (I wouldn't be surprised if the answer was yes -- VOR and DME aren't uber-accurate by any means, so Locate City doing better would be completely unastonishing :)

@BESW -- pilots don't watch airplane movies partly for that reason (although oddly enough, Disney's Planes got a lot of the details right, down to the firetruck being able to cite which FAR the airport was violating, I hear)

BESW

Or, imagine a game about typographers that gets everything it shows right... but ignores leading and kerning and tracking entirely.

Shalvenay

03:13

@Miniman and then it fogs up, and you're left wondering where your dragon is..."did he fly off somewhere else to rest and wait for the fog to lift? is he above you making circles? did he land nearby, just in a place you don't see? did he bonk his head?"

@BESW -- yeah

BESW

For most people, they wouldn't notice or they'd be willing to assume it's just dealt with so that mechanics aren't necessary. But for a typographer, that'd be hard to suspend disbelief about.

doppelgreener

@BESW I know exactly what you mean (I watched transcendence and it bugged me) but I am suggesting exercising some self control in this situation and not going for the detail: I happily watch the film anyway, I happily accept low detail plans, I work on things not 100% to my satisfaction when there's reasons not to go the rest of the way.

BESW

Right, and I'm right there with ya.

but @Shalvenay isn't. He hasn't figured out how to do that yet.

This is probably something else we aren't equipped and trained to help him with.

But since people are challenging his motives for working out these mechanics.... I've laid them out.

doppelgreener

@BESW This could be that grit-teeth-and-do-it-anyway learning exercise.

There's no learning how, there's "that thing you're doing? try not doing that thing you're doing."

Miniman

@doppelgreener In this case it might be more along the lines of "What's the best way to hammer in a nail using a banana? Buy a hammer."

Shalvenay

03:20

@Miniman -- what do you do when you are talking to someone who has no idea what a hammer is, and needs to approve the tool you're using?

Miniman

@Shalvenay In this scenario, D&D is the banana, the ILS is the nail. You can't hammer this nail with D&D, because it's fundamentally incapable of doing what you want it to. You need a hammer.

doppelgreener

@Shalvenay what I'm suggesting is: if you want your group's approval, just tell them you're using {flying creature of your choice} plus a wizard who can cast Locate City (or other type of pilot of your choice) to ride it.

see if they want more detail.

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener -- understood -- that's a good starting point, yes :)

@Miniman -- then how does a dragon land in fog you can only see a quarter mile in?

doppelgreener

if you then try to hunt down more detail, we both probably understand you're trying to stretch far more out of this spell and D&D than they provide.

(remember D&D does not actually even have a concept of low oxygen at high altitudes, or air pressure, or nitrogen bubbles in the brain as a result of changes in pressure, or etc)

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener -- little planes use ILS too :)

doppelgreener

03:23

so?

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener the problem I'm talking about is independent of any of the challenges of high-altitude flying you metnioned

doppelgreener

@Shalvenay It flies in carefully. How do you navigate on a foggy day you can't see very far in?

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener -- slowing down -- but aerodynamics put a hard lower limit on that for basically all things that fly, and some obstacles (strung or tensed wires) are notoriously hard to spot and flying-thing-hazardous, even in severe clear!

doppelgreener

Are you building aeroplanes or using flying creatures?

Shalvenay

either way -- seeing wires from a long way off is hard.

doppelgreener

03:26

and is midair generally full of strung wires in this setting?

Shalvenay

you do have a point there...the low altitude environs is more hospitable -- but the same point holds for a tower or rock looming at you out of fog and thick cloud

BESW

→ 1 message moved to Dice roller & formatting tests

doppelgreener

@Shalvenay so are we using aeroplanes or dragons?

@BESW whoops, ta

BESW

@Shalvenay He's not talking about high-altitude flying. He's using it as an example to showcase how you're looking for a level of detail the system doesn't care about, in an arena of action the system doesn't care about.

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener -- it can be any flying thing at that level of maneuverability...

BESW

03:30

You're using a set of rules to model something the rules weren't intended to model. It's like trying to make a thirty-story brick building without any metal scaffolding to support the weight.

Shalvenay

you have a point there...

Miniman

@BESW I liked my metaphor better :P (Although it clearly wasn't understood.)

BESW

[BESW used Engineering Metaphor! It's moderately effective.]

@Miniman You gotta tailor the metaphor to the audience.

Miniman

Ah, but I can do something else with mine:

11 mins ago, by Miniman

@Shalvenay In this scenario, D&D is the banana, the ILS is the nail. You can't hammer this nail with D&D, because it's fundamentally incapable of doing what you want it to. You need a hammer.

More importantly, the rest of your group is trying to eat fruit salad and has no interest in hammering nails into walls.

doppelgreener

@Shalvenay no, the reason I'm asking is that dragons are animals. Animals generally have really advanced built-in flight navigation assistance, and really advanced flying mechanisms. Thinking, breathing animals can fly really well! Birds flying into rocks on a foggy day is not, generally, a problem - much less if they're a variety of bird that's smart enough to slow down and go carefully!

Shalvenay

03:35

@doppelgreener -- at the low speeds a bird flies at, sure! (they also have the advantage that they can just park on the rock they see looming)

doppelgreener

A lot of flight navigation systems exist because planes can't do the same thing. They can't maneuver like a bird can: a bird can go "oh shit, I'm flying toward a rock!", hurriedly flap to a halt, turn around, and fly away. A jet pilot can't do the same thing.

Shalvenay

yeah -- kinetic energy is a bit of a #%$!@%*

doppelgreener

yeah, so a flying dragon and its wizard pilot have the common sense to be able to do this:

Wizard: It's foggy, and I think we're near this spot that the map says has a bunch of rocky outcrops. Slow down a little, let's take this carefully.
Dragon: Okay.

(packages/passengers arrive a few minutes late due to weather delay.)

Just like you would if you were meant to go for a run in the dark or in a thick fog to deliver something.

What I'm suggesting is that you're trying to solve a bunch of aviation problems that don't generally apply to thinking flying animals.

Adeptus

@Shalvenay Presumably a dragon (or other fantasy flying creature) could avoid any object large enough to be a problem, in the same way.

BESW

For a D&D 3.5-compliant generic solution, try this: The dragon is enchanted so that his precise position appears at the centre of a map that is magically updated to be geographically accurate around him (such maps exist, and the spell linking the dragon to the map is a pretty trivial variant on the scry family). The dragon has a telepathic link (via spell or magic item, there are a ton of options) to the ground control specialist who is watching the map.

The dragon also has spell/feat/item enhancements to its blindsight which expand it out to a range that make its near-object dynamic awareness useful when normal sight is compromised.

Adeptus

03:40

> A creature with a fly speed can move through the air at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load. (Note that medium armor does not necessarily constitute a medium load.) All fly speeds include a parenthetical note indicating maneuverability, as follows:
Perfect: The creature can perform almost any aerial maneuver it wishes. It moves through the air as well as a human moves over smooth ground.
Good: The creature is very agile in the air (like a housefly or a hummingbird), but cannot change direction as readily as those with perfect maneuverability.

Shalvenay

@BESW -- that works too :)

BESW

That should give the dragon, in combination with its natural senses, sufficient input to make smart decisions about its flying in time to enact them.

Shalvenay

basically, it's the equivalent of a terrain matching mapping radar overlaid with chart data :)

doppelgreener

@Adeptus links don't work in multiline messages

Shalvenay

@BESW -- dragon blindsight always struck me as terribly short anyway

10' is nothing when you're in the air!

BESW

03:46

Again: D&D 3.5 doesn't care about air travel.

Dragon stats are modified for (near-/under-)ground interactions because that's all it cares about. Same reason the economy only makes sense if gold values are directly equivalent to adventuring utility: that's all the system cares about.

Shalvenay

yeah...

Miniman

@BESW I was trying to come up with a good banana-related comment here, but nothing really comes to mind.

BESW

@Miniman ...pricing bananas purely on their value for making people slip and fall?

Shalvenay

on a different note -- what makes folks queasy about taking things completely out of their alignment norms? (many of the objections I got to playing a natural-lycanthrope paladin in 3.5 were alignment-related)

Miniman

@Shalvenay No idea - I can't see an alignment reason to object to that.

BESW

03:55

@Shalvenay The four-axis alignment system is extremely problematic for a wide variety of mechanical and real-life social reasons that have led to discussions about it being suppressed in this chat.

@Miniman In-game, lycanthropes have strict alignment restrictions based on their associated animal. Out of game, cultural associations with lycanthropes may conflict with those in-game rules.

Miniman

@BESW My bad - I forgot/didn't realise those applied to natural lycanthropes as well.

BESW

Pretty sure they do, but not quite as strictly. It's been a while.

doppelgreener

Apr 2 '13 at 2:56, by Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@BESW I suggest an annual Don't mention Monks, Vow of Poverty, or physics... year.

alignment probably related

BESW

But even beyond that--the idea of a werewolf as a role model and champion for Good and Law might create real-life dissonance for the players at the table. If it's a campaign world where paladinnery is institutionalised rather than handed down and curated solely by divine fiat, there'd be in-game cultural resistance as well.

So... yeah, I can see it being a major problem on many levels even before we get into the unLawful unGood mess that is the 3.5 alignment system itself.

The idea of animals embodying "lawful" traits is contrary to most representations of them in our current media.

doppelgreener

I find this highly racist

And prejudiced against werewolves

these people are werewolfist

Shalvenay

04:03

@BESW -- first off -- the way I see alignment applying to animals is that they'd vary along the lawful-chaotic axis depending on if they're pack animals or loners, but would always be neutral on the good-evil axis

doppelgreener

actually that's a terrible name for a social othering term

werewolfist should be a martial arts move

3

BESW

@doppelgreener Starring Cynthia Rothrock?

Miniman

@Shalvenay In D&D 3.5, unintelligent animals are Unaligned, which is one of the few bits of the alignment system that makes sense.

doppelgreener

@BESW I just meant move, but now that you mention it it'd be an amazing movie, too.

or mover as the case may be.

BESW

On defending your thesis from snakes.

Miniman

04:10

@BESW Intriguing. A strong recommendation for writing as crappy a thesis as possible.

doppelgreener

@BESW what is the snake a metaphor for here?

BESW

@doppelgreener I assure you, the snakes are very real.

Miniman

It's not a metaphor. "Q: This whole snake thing is just a metaphor, right?
A: I assure you, the snakes are very real."

Dammit, ninja'ed again.

doppelgreener

XD

BESW

In all seriousness, it's just a parody of the extremely rigorous and often illogical challenges one must face in the process of writing and defending one's thesis.

doppelgreener

04:38

... one of my meta questions got faq'd. [wipes away a tear]

user61230

@doppelgreener Congratulations!

doppelgreener

04:58

@Emrakul thank you! :)

David Wilkins

A Yuan-Ti ate my thesis, and is now in my predictive dictionary

doppelgreener

@DavidWilkins this is a very satisfying cudgel-amalgamation of the star list

Miniman

@doppelgreener Huh?

doppelgreener

05:15

or, actually, i guess yuan-ti is not in the star list, but we've recently been talking about yuan-tis, theses, and predictive dictionaries

David Wilkins

:p

Miniman

@doppelgreener None of which currently appear in the star list :P

doppelgreener

@Miniman the predictive dictionary one does! (see: nyarlathotep)

Miniman

@doppelgreener Oop, my bad.

doppelgreener

objections overruled!

now don't make me show you the cudgel part of the amalgamation!

Miniman

05:18

[Cowers]

doppelgreener

[shows anyway!]

[it's painted with ponies and stuff]

[and looks real nice]

Miniman

[Sent into a berserk rage by the ponies, unleashes previously unknown arcane power and burns cudgel to ashes]

doppelgreener

oh dear

[casts Greater Cure PTSD]

David Wilkins

@greener there was another reference there too

Yuan-Ti are part human, part snake

doppelgreener

@DavidWilkins Oh!! :D

I completely forgot about this, because yuan-ti conjures yetis to my mind.

and then I have to remind myself that no, these are the snake-people who call their most admired form an Abomination, and other deeply problematic cultural things

BESW I think renamed those types of yuan-ti totally for a game he was planning to feature them in

IIRC the slightly snake-blooded humans are called some exceptionally wonderful name despite theoretically being the lowest among the yuan-ti?

David Wilkins

05:26

Problematic in other ways as well. I have to consider them for my run of HotDQ

In 5e they are Abomination, Pureblood and Maliason I think

Err malison. MM p 309

Miniman

@DavidWilkins They're pretty weak, although Suggestion is as hilarious as ever

Is this the random encounter in Episode 6?

David Wilkins

I havent read that far in yet, I just started studying for my DM debut

Hopefully I have two more weeks to get there. Tonights session ended in the middle of an in-character debate over what to do. Both options end in splitting theparty

Miniman

Well, yuan-ti don't really appear in HotDQ, so don't study them too hard!

They have a fairly major role in Episode 3 of RoT, but that's a long way off for you.

David Wilkins

Cool. Someone put them into the supplement

Miniman

Yep, cos they appear in 1 random encounter table.

Note: If you're like me, and use the ~~random~~ encounter tables, there's a much more awesome monster in that one. The Shambling Mound.

David Wilkins

05:37

I have a list of six or seven generic monsters I am focusing on for the start. Ambush Drakes, Kobolds, Winged Kobolds, Acolytes, Guards, Cultists, and Giant Lizards

Miniman

@DavidWilkins I refer to winged kobolds as urds whenever possible, because it sounds so much better.

David Wilkins

My group is level 6, and will be 7 by the time we start HotDQ

Miniman

It should be noted that level 7 characters probably won't even notice most of the creatures you just listed, then.

David Wilkins

I figure I will limit the rescues to one and give them one big opening encounter consisting of waves of the above.

They might see one encroachment, or not, and should get to the meeting in the keep as quick as possible

My biggest challenge right off is one character who, according to the player, is familliar with the Forgotten Realms

Although, I suppose thats not abig issue at all really

Miniman

@DavidWilkins I'm guessing the real problem there is one ~~character~~ player who ~~, according to the player,~~ is familliar with the Forgotten Realms and bad at separating player knowledge from character knowledge

David Wilkins

05:53

Most likely, but he may not be familiar with the timeframe and I don't expect much metagaming from him

I can certainly fiat if I think he is

doppelgreener

06:54

@DavidWilkins That's it. So, from a wiki page:

> In general, the more serpentine features a yuan-ti possesses the higher its status in yuan-ti society. Abominations are at the top of their society, followed by halfblood, and finally purebloods.

Pureblood = mostly human, a very little bit serpentine.

Abomination = totally snakelike.

Malisons/half-bloods are in between.

In a society built on the idea that the more snakey you are the better you are, why are the mostly-human ones called purebloods? They're the hybrids. Their blood isn't pure at all! Shouldn't they be getting called abominations?

And why are the abominations, the highest in society, called such an abhorrent name? Shouldn't they be called the purebloods?

It's like the author chose words that repulsed outsiders might use, and then got confused and had yuan-ti society use the same words.

Miniman

Yuan-ti were originally human, so pureblood reflects that they are the closest to being, well, pureblood.

doppelgreener

@Miniman But in a society that revers snakeyness, wouldn't the super snakey people be considered the pure ones?

pure: free from anything of a different, inferior, or contaminating kind; free from extraneous matter

Miniman

@doppelgreener Yeah...I'm really not convinced that this is what they call themselves.

Or maybe they recognise that, regardless of their religious proclivities, being part snake just isn't natural?

doppelgreener

In this society, any non-snake blood is impure, so the so-called purebloods are like 5% pure at best.

@Miniman there is that angle, until you look up what abominable means

abomination: anything abominable; anything greatly disliked or abhorred. intense aversion or loathing; detestation. a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc

abominations are anything but abominations to these people; they are absolutely held in the highest of regard.

Miniman

At this point I'm going for: they have a twisted set of values,.

(Also, I have to go home.)

doppelgreener

07:05

@Miniman bye!

user61230

ugh, UI development

user61230

status-not-even-going-to-bother-right-now

doppelgreener

07:42

@Emrakul status-fun

i like UI design... development not necessarily as much

user61230

status-bane-of-my-existence

user61230

one of these days, I'm going to have to figure out how to make minimal UI

user61230

but ugh

doppelgreener

this question is at 4 close votes, and for some reason hasn't had any actions taken on it in the review queue except for an edit, so I'm posting it here for attention.

user61230

ehehe, chat crew strikes again

user61230

07:47

see, see you can do UI, @doppelgreener! you should join this thing!

doppelgreener

08:04

@Emrakul I have about 2 hours of free time each evening at present; me joining that thing won't be soon

doppelgreener

08:19

One clarification: what is the air-to-ground comms for? With flying ballistic metal tubes, we need that because speeds are high, collisions are fatal, vehicles have massive take-off/landing footprints, and evasive maneuvering is nigh impossible; making air-traffic control necessary. Griffins et al. have none of these problems, hence the pressure to create and use air-traffic control protocols doesn't exist. — SevenSidedDie 1 hour ago

@Shalvenay re: this above comment, which speaks truth, please remember that a lot of our flight infrastructure exists to solve problems uniquely experienced by trying to get giant pressurised metal tubes to go around the place. if we were using griffins, many of these problems would not exist, and others would exist instead: how to deal with all the poop, for instance.

consider, for instance, that cars need collision avoidance systems, horses have a brain. cars need careful designing to avoid impacts, horses can bump into things and heal. cars need massive mechanical maintenance, horses need good food, rest, and occasionally a doctor.

when we created cars, we introduced problems, and then needed to introduce more technology to solve those problems.

don't try to replicate infrastructure that was built to solve different problems, unless those problems actually exist.

(this ties into the earlier stuff I said about how a dragon could just slow down on a foggy day, a plane cannot and thus has a problem it needs extra support to solve)

trogdor

08:47

also, a dragon is magic

if it wasn't it would have issues even flying at it's size

or, like, not just dieing under its own weight

but the example is still good

a living creature who flies can slow down, a machine that flies, at least for now under our current tech, kinda needs to go a certain speed or it just won't stay in the air

user61230

09:05

@doppelgreener I'm much more important than whatever it is you're doing!

doppelgreener

09:27

@Emrakul relaxation and wellbeing! Though I'll admit UI design would help with that. ;)

user61230

@doppelgreener maybe I should learn how to use this... "UI design" thing...

doppelgreener

Though I'll be focusing that UI design energy on fate looms soon. Amid all the time spent moving house and worrying about moving house I've cracked where I need to begin on the interface. (All previous attempts were over-engineering, and my online games with my friend and BESW and his friends have been enlightening.)

user61230

There's a book I haven't read yet, but I've been recommended it many, many times, called "Don't Make Me Think‌"

user61230

Iunno if you'd find it useful, but it's a guide to UI design

doppelgreener

10:11

@Emrakul I've read it. It's great. Do read.

Fudge dice stackapps page undeleted. Phew, I am glad the script isn't just 100% broken, and glad I put it through jsLint.

BESW

10:35

@doppelgreener Is it updated?

doppelgreener

@BESW Just now, yes!

4d

Dice Service

•

doppelgreener

whee

BESW

Ooer.

V. cool.

doppelgreener

Would you consider the script imps appeased?

BESW

10:39

I hope so!

[pokes around a bit]

Hmm. Loaded the Fate chat in a separate tab, and then had to refresh it before the 'fudge dice' line showed up.

...interesting.

If I load a chat room in a new tab from my "other rooms you're in" list, the script loads properly.

But if I get a new tab from the drop-down menu of rooms I'm in that I get by clicking my icon, I have to refresh before the script kicks in.

In the scheme of things this is trivial, but it may be interesting to debug.

doppelgreener

@BESW it does have to wait for the entire page to load before it shows up. i should change that.

aaaaaand updated.

BESW

10:57

Nice.

Tritium21

that moment you realize the GM just wants to write a book

sighs

BESW

Eeeyup.

I knew a GM whose players considered his stories interesting enough to endure the railroad, but...

Tritium21

The stories are all character dramas...of the NPCs

I know the backstory of one NPC better than my own character's

doppelgreener

Oh dang. :(

BESW

Sounds familiar, yes.

Tritium21

11:04

Oh, I just smirked... and i quote "dis is what I mean when I say I go really in depth in my world creation; I could make a series of books based on this shit :P"

doppelgreener

he probably should, and then join one of your games as a player ;)

Tritium21

She hates the games I run... very off the cuff

"Vampire, toronto, sabbat, go"

doppelgreener

clearly she is jealous

that you got to sabbat first

BESW

Aspect looking for a home (not sure if it's a character aspect, or a faction aspect, or what): It's always a trap.

Tritium21

Star Wars setting for a Mon Calmari

But never for an admrial

but the boatswain for the admiral

its a "rolling eyes" aspect. You tap it to correct your boss - its a social aspect

doppelgreener

11:18

Haha, great home for it.

Tritium21

Hmm... a star wars game with a futerama feel

trogdor

11:32

@doppelgreener thank you

the script I was using to do this before stopped working a bit ago, I couldn't get it to work

this one is working perfectly

doppelgreener

11:49

@trogdor hooray! \o/

trogdor

:)

BESW

@doppelgreener Have you had any thoughts about the nature of the Nibiru-1 blackbody object that you're particularly fond of? I'm polling everybody.

doppelgreener

@BESW giant cosmic raven (or something resembling one) tucked into a ball for interstellar travel, will unfold its wings later when we are there and it is a suitably built-up dramatic time for the thing to finally reveal itself.

BESW

That's pretty close to my "egg of a giant space dragon" idea.

doppelgreener

sorta!

except less egg, more eons-old, less scales more feathers.

(though I guess space dragons and cosmic ravens have no need of scales or feathers)

BESW

11:55

I'm sadly inclined to make it something more explore-around-inside-able, though.

Still, gathering all inputs before I make any decision.

trogdor

I would personally prefer it to be an object rather than a living thing

BESW

I'm thinking that I'll present a solid "what you encounter" without offering anything in the way explanations, leaving that for brainstorms.

trogdor

that doesn't mean it can't have something living in it

or several somethings even

BESW

Trogdor has suggested it might be a giant alien solar panel/battery.

Ben says it would be silly if it's just a group of scientists from another planet who want to look at our sun.

(I agree; obviously they'd have to be mirror universe scientists.)

(With goatees.)

trogdor

well just look at was not the suggestion I had

and the mostly benign plans they could possibly have don't mean they aren't actually doing something most people on earth won't like

BESW

12:12

Yeah, your idea and his are separate.

I have my own notions, which will doubtless change at least three times before they hit the table, but I want to draw on all your crazy disparate notions.

Mentioning space ravens has already shifted the visuals I'm going to use, though perhaps not in the direction you anticipate.

Aaron

13:10

Joshua Aslan Smith

13:50

what a mug

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