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04:00 - 16:0016:00 - 00:00

16:04
before people start answering a clear not-a-question
@Zachiel too late
that answer has 2 delete votes already if you guys have them in your pockets somewhere
@mpdc solid, sad they have a 100$ free shipping threshold
@Zachiel: Do you think it is good to comment on a answer to a nonquestion?
(I'm conflicted, is a wrong answer still wrong if it stops being an answer, do to the question not existing (This seems like a Magic The Gathering Situation, "In responce to you declaring blockers I sacrifice the attacker, so you miss because they are already dead")
Pong.
@Oxinabox Fizzing!
If the question ceases to exist, there's no answers. No visible to the crowd ones, I mean.
16:18
Subjectivity of reality is not a state of affairs that most human languages were made to accommodate.
Someone just gave an answer with links to PDF copies of the 3.5 DMG and Epic Level Handbook. Sheesh.
there is no 3.5 Epic Level Handbook
:-P
(it was never updated from 3.0 right?)
@Metool Ping.
As far as I know, no,.
@mpdc - I've played Dungeon! with my 4 year old, she has fun & likes the dice rolling, rules are not too complex.
16:21
I removed the links, in any case.
Link to question?
2
Q: How is treasure determined randomly for CR 21 or higher creatures?

Hey I Can ChanThe Magic Item Compendium says Step 1: Roll on Table A-1: Treasure, using the monster's CR to determine which row you will use. (265) Table A-1: Treasure only goes to Challenge Rating 20. The six level-17-plus PCs in my campaign have begun encountering CR 21+ creatures. How can I continue t...

@Oxinabox Does that mean it's still a valid source as written?
Article on D&D in New York Times: nytimes.com/2014/07/14/books/…
I honestly don't know. It has been years since ip layed dnd and only random factoids remain from 3.5 rules. (Such as Epic Handbook never being released for 3.5) Not useful information about what that means.
---
Anyone online from when I had that discussion about making a tool for generating Angels in nWoD GMC?\
16:26
"As a D&D player, “you have to convince other players that your version of the story is interesting and valid,” said Jennifer Grouling, an assistant professor of English at Ball State University..."

This is not exactly how I would describe it.
@mpdc I picked it up, played it once, came to the conclusion that it is a very 80s boardgame, then sold it. The cut-down 4e games (Ravenloft et al) are good though.
@Oxinabox I believe I was.
Ended up using dart
wow dart2js makes alot of files, and big ones too
16:30
@RobertF This article suffers quite a bit from the conflation of "D&D" with "tabletop rpgs"
@Oxinabox You might want to check how much stuff you're importing. You might be able to reduce that.
mmm, it is apparently 10Mb...
I am using YAML which brings in alot of dependancies
Seems to be working.
http://oxinabox.ucc.asn.au/rpg/eegen/eegen.html
Jennifer Grouling states "plotlines are decided as a group..." I suppose everyone has to agree on an adventure theme prior to playing, unless you're playing something like Microscope.
Last paragraph of the article is funny: As for Mr. Díaz, “Once girls entered the equation in a serious way,” he said, “gaming went right out the window.”
@Grubermensch You should read the article about the boy with autism who learned social interaction through D&D
@RobertF Which is one of the ways in which this article fits the character of the Bad D&D Article.
@GMNoob Where?
@RobertF Even at the table while playing. "Never split the party"
16:39
kind of interesting how different my experience is from those highlighted in the article. I came to table top gaming as an adult, after I was married and had kids...
it's characterized almost completely as a game for outcast adolescents
Has the game become more mainstream now? I don't know.
I didn't feel incredibly outcaste when I played DnD with my friends in high school. It wasn't popular, but I didn't feel marginalized either.
When I was growing up, there was a phase (right after red-box D&D was translated) that that was a big swell in elementary/secondary school gamers, though most didn't keep at it past a few months.
The thing that I learned the most from the salon article, was that things I took for granted, were actually collabrative efforts where you try to convince other players and the DM about the plot in general.
@RobertF at least slightly, RPGs is still a small market though. I think there is certainly way more cultural awareness of the themes and tropes though thanks to the movie and video game sectors who share the same roots
16:43
@waxeagle And for writers/actors
(tolkien/medieval fantasy)
@GMNoob yes, but generally only as formative experience rather than an ongoing activity
the only person mentioned that was characterized as a current gamer was Martin
Movies like Zero Charisma do tend to portray rpg gamers as marginalized, although the film also featured a "hipster gamer" - you know, drinks PBR, eats kale, plays D&D to fill out his geek credentials. :)
@waxeagle I found this a very annoying sentence. Like it was aberrent for a real adult to be still playing.
@waxeagle The game is advertised towards children. :)
@Grubermensch yes
16:46
Yes, D&D is advertised to kids (not that I care). There are other RPGs aimed mainly towards the adult market.
@waxeagle I guess this is a problem with media portrayals of all kinds of gaming though. How often do we see anybody out of college playing computer games in mass media either?
@Grubermensch sadly not often, even though it's incredibly common now (at least in our generation)
@Grubermensch - No, there are examples. Steve Carroll in The Forty Year Old Virgin.
@RobertF Please reread the sentence you have just typed.
@Grubermensch The Playstation, around 2000, made a big cultural switch in video games.
It's not a totally mainstream pastime for stoners and college students.
True, it's still not something that respectable adults do, but it's not much different than a couch potato sitting for hours in front of the TV.
It's not a nerdy thing anymore.
16:52
@lisardggY I'm not sure what you're saying...
@Grubermensch - Right, I know. Carroll's character is portrayed as a loser. Same with Vince Vaughn in The Breakup. Adults playing games are either man-childs or losers in mass media. But there may be a few positive examples.
The last one.
@lisardggY My point is that the media portrayal is lagging behind the cultural reality.
@Grubermensch Yeah, I kinda missed your original point and countered one that you weren't really making. Sorry about that. :)
happens
16:55
But yeah, mass media, especially mainstream media like network TV or Hollywood films, will always go for a safe, wide common denominator, which usually means being several years out of date.
Remember that Tom Hanks movie Mazes and Monsters from the 1980s?
That was the 80's, though. The whole Dark Dungeons/satanic D&D panic was pretty much over by the early 90's, possibly due to TSR's evasive maneuvers.
@RobertF haven't seen it
There was a good question about it on the site a few months ago.
It's fun in an Mystery Science sort of way.
Mystery Science Theater 3K I meant to write. Lots of awful dialogue
Didn't TSR remove references to devils in the Monster Manual 2nd ed?
@RobertF Yup. Those are the evasive maneuvers I mentioned. All devils were renamed "baatezu", all demons renamed "tana'ari". Or the other way around. I forget.
@lisardggY I actually did have a player in my first campaign whose parents kinda believed that. Their (in my opinion very curious) strategy to evaluate was to require that we play the game in their house, and they ultimately saw no problem with the game.
@Grubermensch Remarkably sane of them. :)
(This was around 2006, by the way)
17:06
2006? Wow
@lisardggY But ya gotta marvel at the logic of saying "We'll I think you might be summoning demons, so you'd best do it at my house so I can keep my eye on ya."
@RobertF trust me, even today there is a lot of distrust among conservative Christians
@Grubermensch Where, presumably, they have a respectable stock of crosses, holy water, silver swords, wooden stakes and slivers of the true cross.
Come to think of it, when one of my friends tried to start a game, he had the same exact thing happen with one of his players.
Actually, considering how many rpgs are on the market, I'm surprised there isn't a conservative, Christian rpg.
17:09
@RobertF First Google: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DragonRaid
I think the last sentence pretty much sums up why that hasn't taken off: "DragonRaid became a victim of some well-meaning but mistaken Christian organizations that condemned it as having evil content."
@Grubermensch !!! I've had a copy of a brilliant review of this game, in a text file, downloaded from god knows where over 10 years ago. But I lost it, and forgot the name of the game.
@Grubermensch pretty much...
I've been looking for it for years!
Thanks!
Occasionally I have been known to be awesome.
@Grubermensch - Thanks for the link. Very inteersting. Apparently it still has a small following.
17:13
Now that I have the name, I can find the review as well. From a Usenet post in 1995. groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.games.frp.misc/lin_IasO3C0/…
There is a stat called "Righteously Mingle with Evil". I am tickled.
Basic attributes are described in the review: "In DragonRaid, the character's
basic attributes are: Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness,
Faithfulness, Gentleness, and Self-Control. [A note explains that
these are the fruit of the spirit, per Galatians 5:22-23.]"
Oh jeez orc racism.
I think I read this review in a text file I downloaded from a BBS.
 
1 hour later…
18:46
1
Q: When can I make opportunity attacks?

Oblivious SageWhat provokes an opportunity attack? In 3.X moving out of a threatened square, standing up from prone, casting a spell (unless cast defensively), or making a ranged attack provoked, while in 4e moving out of a threatened square or making a ranged/area attack provoked.

So glad that spellcasting and ranged attacks don't provoke.
That was such a painful restriction.
@Grubermensch definitely, disadvantage seems entirely fair
It's especially important now that there's no five foot step.
@Grubermensch yeah, you have to burn your action to step away
(well to disengage and then move)
but you can have your full movement
tbf though, both Rogues and Fighters have a way to salvage a turn in that case (Fighter via Action Surge and Rogue via Cunning Action)
The action surge hardly counts, as it's one-and-done
@Grubermensch true (but then why is a fighter disengaging anyways :))
18:58
It's also nice to see that moving around inside reach doesn't provoke, which means that the spirit of most five-foot-steps is still possible and you can still have a swordfight with constant moving around.
I think it would be really nice to see something that encourages that style of fighting, rather than everybody standing still during battles as is often the case.
@Grubermensch it would be, and moving around inside reach probably doesn't provoke in no small part because they were designing to be gridless and the difference between being in front and beside is irrelevant in the system they created (no flanking, rogue gets adjacent SA from being next to the same creature another ally is next to)
@waxeagle It's not quite irrelevant, as you might orbit around the opponent you're actively fighting in order to get into adjacency with someone else.
Or to give the wizard a clean shot with lightning bolt =D
@Grubermensch too true, that and the cone powers are going to be a bit of a challenge to adjudicate. I'm probably going to use a grid at least informally
that is an annoying angle for the cones...
53 degrees
19:14
@Grubermensch yeah, I was just pondering what to do about cones on the grid. I'm thinking, 1 square in front, two squares in the next layer, and 3 in the third. Basically which of the 2 square get affected is a coin flip.
it's easier off a corner square
actually no. I've got it. Let me draw it.
shoot, can't upload here anyways. but I think I'll requier the cone to always go in a 1/2/3 square patter in a diagonal
diagonal gets kinda dumb
@Grubermensch yeah. I'm thinking the corner of a square though.
I dunno if there's an easy way to do this without drawing during play.
or guesstimating, which is kinda more in the spirit anyway
@Grubermensch yeah, guestimating is probably what they want you to do...someone suggested rolling dice to see how many and which targets you get, seems reasonable if you're going fully gridless
Rolling for it seems too arbitrary for me. Even without a grid I usually have rough combat maps, which should be more than sufficient.
I suppose you could cut cone templates out of cardboard or something, hollow-like so you can see what's inside.
19:28
@Grubermensch that would work fine for gridless play, becomes very odd on a grid (no rules for how squares are affected yet)
20:12
[reads backlog]
Last year's film G.I. Joe: Retaliation has its macho military protagonists (portrayed by The Rock and Channing Tatum) playing video games with each other. The scene is meant to humanise them by showing their normal civilian lives.
@BESW is that at least some measure of a sign that times are changing?
(and that young adult men relate well to men who play video games)
I think so.
(Critics generally panned the film, some comparing it to a video game itself, but it did well with audiences and got a sequel greenlit.)
 
1 hour later…
21:32
hello hello
hello
you guys talking about cone powers?
@tablesalt hello, dont think Ive chatted with you before
got any questions or concerns with any of your games?
Yeah, lately I've just been lurking on chat.
Hey.
@JoshuaAslanSmith not really, thanks for asking though.
Just ran my first 5e game with a group of semi-roleplayers. Forgot that they weren't familiar with the mechanics, tried to do chargen on the fly, didn't go very well.
21:38
Ah, yes. I almost always start players in a new system with premades (or at least half-premades) for the first session, unless chargen is really short-form.
@tablesalt just using basic I take it?
I just got he starter kit, reading through, looks like a good adventure for newbies, especially with the included pre-gens
@JoshuaAslanSmith Yes. I used monster stats from the latest playtest, though.
yeah gotcha
Im also running the latest D&D encounters season, dead in thay, at my game shop
which has had at least 3 spells and or traps name dropped which are included nowhere in the playtest or the module
wish wizards had a better search for Daily DnD articles
How does it handle traps, out of curiosity? Does it do the 3.5 trap stat block thing, or are they more puzzle type things?
I have to believe they talked about the DC check difficulty level differences in a column but having issues finding it
22:10
@besw trying to decide if I should try to watch new who with the new doctor now
any advice lol
I have high hopes for Capaldi, but Moffat's still a big name in the show so his peccadilloes won't go away.
I guess it depends on what you like or dislike about the show as it's been running.
yeah
hmmm
I guess Ill just wait and ask you after the new season runs for a bit
my biggest issue with new who is emotional need/logic trumping actual story logic
Ah.
grumble grumble After all my disappointment at there not being a D&D Live Game last week, I got drafted into a last minute real world obligation that prevents me from watching this one...
At least I can catch up on Youtube in a few days...
whats going on right now
22:23
@JoshuaAslanSmith I'm watching this.
@besw so like I think that it only happens once in season 1, with the London bombing episode, but they hand a lantern on it by saying just this once it wall works out, and comparitively yeah, season 1 is really dark and there is a trail of bodies of all those he couldnt save (especially when alluding to the time war) which feels very real for the original who I grew up on
@JoshuaAslanSmith Old Who managed to be just about every genre and tone over its time, but one tone it did well and often was freaking dark.
true, the old who I have seen most and like most is tom baker and peter davidson
But then, there was that time the Doctor's companion decided to get him in shape and made him do exercise and drink carrot juice.
and tom baker is often lighter and funnier of the two but thats really just him thumbing his nose at incredible danger and dispair
hahaha
22:28
The promo photos for capaldi though give me hope that it could focus on a darker doctor
yeah
I try to forget about that doctor
Poor Colin Baker.
short sighted BBC execs, oh no, peter davidson's doctor took a ratings dip, lets just murder him (albeit in what is considered the best 4 parter of all doctor who)
He could have been such an awesome Doctor--and he was, in the later audio stories--but he had the bad luck to be saddled with an insane producer.
I believe it
expanded who universe, which Ive only dipped my toe in with a book for with tom baker's doctor, was quite good
22:31
@JoshuaAslanSmith The off-screen Who stuff is kind of a mixed bag, but most anything by Big Finish (the main audio-story studio for the franchise) is gold.
They got a lot of the original actors back to reprise their roles, they redeemed some parts of the show's history which were frankly embarrassing, and they delighted in exploring the holes and backstories and missing bits.
Heck, they re-did "Shada" as an Eighth Doctor story in continuity with the fact that "Shada" never got aired but footage from it was used in "The Five Doctors."
And I've used elements of the Zagreus storyline in several of my campaigns.
@TRiG That "Recent Entries" list, though.
@BESW very nice
@JoshuaAslanSmith It starts with the Eighth Doctor suddenly going "...wait. I think I forgot to do something."
23:05
near hit of lightning and power went out
Ooer. Everything okay?
yeah I mean I live inside one of americas 10 biggest cities
power redirected immediately
basically I only worry about a large scale societal collapse, roads are good and plentiful, if the city somehow went to hell Id just drive to my family's house in the burbs
@besw thank you for your concern though
@JoshuaAslanSmith Do you have any suggestions on which Old Who stories would be easiest/best to adapt for Cthulhuian horror games?
Like, if you have Investigators instead of the Doctor and his companion(s), you get a Mythos adventure.
23:23
oooh
thinking of the one with the paintings and the dude whose spaceship exploded supposedly causing life on earth
Last Saturday I ran "The Abominable Snowmen" as a game of Cthulhu Dark and it was awesome.
I'll probably run The Web of Fear for them next week (Trogdor's character survived Tibet, so he can be a recurring character!).
@BESW until he dies
@JonathanHobbs Travers got blown up by the exploding monastery (things don't go as well when the Doctor isn't around), so he'll probably take on the Travers role for "Web of Fear."
@JonathanHobbs or is so overwhelmed by the continuing emotional trauma that they bow out
23:26
But I'm looking for more material, partly for future games with that group and partly because @JonathanHobbs wants me to run a Cthulhu Dark game for him.
@JoshuaAslanSmith I'm not sure City of Death really has an entry point for non-Time-Lords.
I tried putting together something based on "Pyramids of Mars" but it would require too much tinkering--again--in order for the Investigators to get thrown into it rather than running into it.
it is very time travelly
So now I'm looking at "The Horror of Fang Rock" and that's very promising.
purely earth based or easilly earth based story lines I gotcha
23:28
@JoshuaAslanSmith I could also do spaceship stories, along the lines of films like Alien or Event Horizon.
The issue is less about the setting, and more about how proactive Investigators have to be in order to stay involved.
now lost in the story with adrics death
which reminds me of the cybermen being weak to gold, an extremely excellent conductor, very silly
I believe the original version was that their breathing filters couldn't handle gold dust so they suffocated.
Which is also silly, but a little less so.
there is a literal who cthulu storyline
yes you are correct
23:32
@BESW and no one is the Doctor
so again
things might go badly
But that's the other problem with converting Doctor Who stories to Mythos games: so often the progression or resolution of the story requires some knowledge or ability which Investigators just can't be expected to have.
"Pyramid of Mars" suffered from this; I'd've had to invent a brand-new set of resolution conditions in order to run it without Time Lords.
@JoshuaAslanSmith it's ok, maybe they have graphene instead
hmmm yes
sonic screwdriver-itus on the physical end and ridiculously advanced maths/anthropological skills on the metaphysical
also, I see no reason my character would not take an orb and a deactivated yeti with him
so the replacement role of Travers is an acceptable one to me
@JonathanHobbs Right, which I'm not assuming they use gold, but gold being a very common element compared to other conductors and very easy to purify Id imagine that as a cyborg race they just might value it. Also is gold dust that fine? I feel like its writers looking for a macguffin/Secret weakness that obviously didnt have real technical knowledge.
I can willfully suspend my disbelief when watching, hell i love that episode
23:38
@JoshuaAslanSmith Is it because Adric dies?
@JoshuaAslanSmith So I'm looking for stories where the challenge is "puzzle out the simple solution in the confusion before we all go mad," rather than "invent a clever solution."
Adric's inability to solve the math problem with the spaceship to save himself, the doctor unable to save him because the ship is the big bang which starts the universe, the doctor killing the lead cyberman with adric's star for mathematics
Im actually in the very small camp of adric fans
Like "Abominable Snowmen:" the solution was "smash stuff."
hes a bit of a ponce who thinks hes all that etc., but at heart hes a good kid who just wants to impress the doctor
right ill need to think on this my old who knowledge all merges into one (with exception of character introductions and departures as well as quite obvious douglas adams episodes)
hmmm tom baker episode
snake cult
with lela
Yeah. I keep thinking "ooh, this story will work!" but then I read/watch it and "Oh, never mind."
@JoshuaAslanSmith "Kinda"?
I haven't actually watched that yet.
let me go refresh my mind
23:42
Further suggestions should probably go in the Spoil-Lair.
Since both Troggy and Hobbs might be part of any game.
And I know Troggy's seen a decent amount of Old Who; I gave him a whistle-stop tour of the Doctors last summer.
haha
see now Im confusing the snake one with the one where leela is introduced
the snake one Im thinking of might be a peter davidson episode
@besw oh Kinda was the title lol, your ? threw me off
I enjoy the pun now that I have realized it
So yeah Im misremebering Kinda and the face of evil together
@besw ill join the spoil lair
HA now someone else is barred from that room
:P
@JoshuaAslanSmith oh, wait, then again, we're made of iron and water and so on, but if i were immersed in... most things my body's made of, i probably wouldn't fare very well
23:58
it doesn't even need to involve other things, water can kill us all by itself if we get stuck in it long enough to drown
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