TRPG General Chat

BESW

00:00

Whenever you hear a bell, an angel is getting wings. Whenever you hear screaming and crunching, an angel is getting lunch.

Tweeted by NightValeRadio on March 20, 2014 at 5:03 PM

2048: Doctor Who edition

Phil

Don't you love it when your computer has a spasm for no reason, and it takes an hour to sort out :o/

Metool

[yawn]

Yup.

Phil

@Metool You've actually made me start yawning too :p

BESW

00:16

TV says that means you're not a sociopath.

Phil

Phew, I was worried for a minute

BESW

00:43

@Phil As were we all.

Phil

[shifty] was it that obvious?

BESW

[back-pedalling] No, not at all!

Today, I have three songs competing to get stuck in my brain.

The Kolchak theme, Popcorn (video unrelated), and Night on Bald Mountain.

doppelgreener

01:15

FYI, from Meta Stack Overflow, our profile pages are going to change a lot.

3

40

Q: The profile page is getting a makeover

The Big Idea Create a page on the network that summarizes who I am as a developer, and lets me show off the stuff I am most proud of. Some of this information is only available by creating a Careers profile, but we want to open it up to everybody, even if you don’t have one. Background: The Pro...

One thing of particular concern to me is that a project section is being added for Stack Overflow for github projects, but other sites won't receive the project section. Someone's suggested the project section be extended to every site, and preferably allow us to link to arbitrary pages, like blogs and whatnot.

This is particularly relevant to those of us who have ongoing projects - I'm working on a tabletop simulator, some of us are working on our own RPG systems!

15

A: The profile page is getting a makeover

There won't be an Apps and Projects section [for other sites] What about other technical/programming sites, like Code Golf or Programmers? What if I want my projects to be there? A possible solution is a site-specific section there. It could be GitHub for programming-related sites, a recipe...

This is that request

doppelgreener

05:13

@MC_Hambone for further reading on why it can be pretty bad to answer an unclear question...

5

Q: What do we do with answers made obsolete by a question change?

There's a current case of an infrequent problem: Why is Donjon offline? Dakeyras's answer was a response to a question that was once there. It was made in good faith, and is a helpful answer. The part of the question it was responding to no longer exists, and if the question were asked in this ...

support questions answers editing

good answer (to a question they might be asking), but if people start answering an unclear question before it gets clarified, messy situations happen

doppelgreener

05:27

Could someone with time and - importantly - a D&D 4e book handy take a look at our new enchantment property question?

I'm asking about the 'Property', some magical items have a bonus called Property, its generally a Passive bonus, I've always thought that these passives were active as long as you (in this case) wield the weapons, but according to the AV properties of two different weapon items isn't in effect at the same time, only the weapon your hitting with is. I'm wondering whether I've missed something or if I got it right. — Lucifer 14 mins ago

it's a little unclear, I think, or warrants a good answer

doppelgreener

05:44

Just occurred to me: What if, in a world where everyone has at least a little bit of magic, and spells can be invented, a wizard provides a charm spell for his name?

Every time someone says it or writes it, they're casting a tiny charm spell on themselves.

BESW

That makes some very interesting assumptions about the nature of magic in the setting.

Magician

This is very much related to gods (and other powerful entities) hearing whenever someone calls their name, resulting in titles being used instead.

doppelgreener

06:11

I imagine it could work if words in that setting were like fire. They say that if you light a candle with a match, the candle's fire is the same fire the match has, but now split. Light a second match fresh, and it's a different fire. (In reality, since it's all just fire, the question of which fire is which is meaningless, but I digress)

When the Wizard says his name is Peter, he says it with a particular meaning - the meaning of a spell. When someone uses his name, they say the same word, carrying the same meaning and same spell.

This is different to the Peter someone else may call themselves.

Thus, saying Peter to say the Wizard's name is different to saying Peter to say the Mayor's name.

But each person thus passes on the Wizard's name and its spell when talking about him.

BESW

In the Young Wizards series, language is magic: every promise made, every description spoken, is like programming code that re-defines reality.

doppelgreener

@Magician (and so nobody refers to wizards by their name, for suspicion they've put a spell on it, haha!)

BESW

If you can fully describe a thing, you can control it and change it.

Wizards are people who have learned the language of pure and accurate description, the base code of the universe.

In that setting, a person's True Name is a constantly-changing description of them. Speaking it defines them, and if a wizard mis-speaks his own name when casting a spell... part of the spell's effect is to re-define the wizard according to his mistake.

doppelgreener

@BESW Oh, wow. That sounds quite incredible.

I expect people for the most part cannot be changed, as it is difficult to fully describe someone.

BESW

You have to know someone very very well.

doppelgreener

06:18

Except, maybe, Hodor, whose True Name might just be Hodor.

BESW

Young wizards have insane raw power because they don't know what they can't do, so they just do it anyway, but older wizards have more control because they are more self-aware and can describe things (including themselves) more accurately.

I highly recommend the first four books in the series, starting with So You Want to Be a Wizard.

doppelgreener

@BESW so you don't know what you can't do until you decide "I cannot do this thing" and then it is so?

BESW

I can't find my copy of the first book... argh.

doppelgreener

Oh no!

BESW

Or the second, or the fourth!

My shelves aren't really well-organised, but there are only three places it could be.

Anyway, yes, young people are more likely to think of outside-the-box solutions to problems and ignore "common sense" boundaries.

Each Wizard is called because she is the solution to a particular problem. If they accept the call (by reading the Oath), they get a trial-by-fire Ordeal which is solving that problem.

(That's not my favourite version of the Oath, but the idea's the same. The Manual adjusts itself to fit the needs of each wizard.)

Getting back to the names thing, in Young Wizards words themselves have power.

In Dresden Files, by contrast, words are spoken by wizards to limit power.

MC_Hambone

06:41

@JonathanHobbs That actually is really helpful. I know sometimes I am quick to answer, but it really is out a want to be helpful... I guess from now on i just need to cool my jets and not jump right to answering before making sure the question is explicit in it's meaning

doppelgreener

@BESW Explain this calling a little bit?

BESW

In DF magic is formed through raw intent. Gestures and words are the structure a wizard uses to control their intent. Wordless magic is dangerous because you don't have the focusing rituals which serve to keep your brain on task.

doppelgreener

@MC_Hambone I'm glad it was; it was a good answer too, but you do need to make sure the question's clear enough before answering! (It is pretty tempting to just dive in there when you have an answer though, I agree!)

A good answer for a question asking about that stuff, specifically!

BESW

@JonathanHobbs The form of the calling depends on the person being called. Most human wizards get a book that explains wizardry to them, and offers the Oath. If they take the Oath, the book is their manual and reference guide for magic. If they refuse the call, they just remember the book as a weird fantasy story.

Is that what you were wondering?

@MC_Hambone Hi!

BESW

07:03

My mother did a writing exercise with her composition students last week, and suddenly it became a possible pony RPG element.

doppelgreener

07:17

@BESW The book just appears?

BESW

@JonathanHobbs One character found it on a library shelf she knew intimately and had never noticed before. Another had it fall off a supermarket paperback rack.

One got a new laptop that turned out to be a brand-new digital version of the manual.

Cetacean wizards feel the Ocean speak to them, offering them the Oath.

MC_Hambone

oh Hey @BESW! Didn't see you message me... working on a history paper at the moment and am only glancing at the screen lol

BESW

@MC_Hambone Fair enough. Have fun with that paper.

MC_Hambone

...what are you guys talking about with the whole wizarding manual? is this a D&D thing? I have my doubts due to the supermarket comment, but i do like the concept of the book becoming a "fiction" is you ignore the calling. My interest=peaked.

BESW

@MC_Hambone It's from the book series Young Wizards.

Conversation about that particular series starts here:

1 hour ago, by BESW

In the Young Wizards series, language is magic: every promise made, every description spoken, is like programming code that re-defines reality.

MC_Hambone

07:30

I really like Young Wizards concept of magic.... know of any RPG systems that implement magic in a similar way?

BESW

It'd be really easy for Fate to do it...

A quick Google turns up several threads on the subject.

Ars Magica might work if it weren't so firmly tied to its setting.

Mage is recommended, but I'm not sure it's the right fit.

DFRPG is not the right system, for sure.

Wow. I just found a 2003 thread saying "Hey, WotC has made d20 System open-source, so let's make a YW game!"

@MC_Hambone Could be a good question for the rpg.se site, actually.

Maybe model it on this question:

8

Q: I want to run an RPG inspired by Monáe's 'Metropolis' concept series

Janelle Monáe has created a compelling --if lightly-defined-- science fiction future setting: In the dystopian world of The Metropolis Suite, an android is condemned to death for falling in love with a human and flees to the underground, where she becomes a prophet and heroine to the oppresse...

game-recommendation science-fiction

MC_Hambone

@BESW "Since concept albums have never been famous for their detailed and internally-consistent renderings of fictional worlds" LOL! As a guitarist (going on 13 years playing) and amateur composer... CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!

BESW

I look forward to it.

MC_Hambone

can it be my own Fictional world? A really easy method to make a coherent concept album would be turning a D&D campaign into a Rock Opera or something

BESW

07:46

> Incidentally, you will find that this "What The Hell" factor is pretty common in science fiction concept albums, actually, because if the whole thing were totally plot-based and coherent throughout, you'd call it a "Rock Opera." Sci-fi concept albums tend to set up a world, a character, a conflict, and then go, "and then, um, Rock!" This is one of the reasons that I love these albums so.

> (source)

MC_Hambone

I guess that is the delineation, isn't it? A rock opera is quite plot driven and a concept album is left open to interpretation... hmmm I still think it is possible to set of a concept album that doesn't contradict itself.

Also, I am kinda surprised at the lists on that site and the number of bands on there that I know, have listened to and like.... yet never knew made concept albums

BESW

I assume you knew Bowie and Monae did.

(I generally figure that if I know something about pop culture, it's probably fairly common knowledge.)

MC_Hambone

yeah (tho haven't heard of Monae) ELO, Styx, Yes, The Kinks and Parliment were the ones that I didnt know made concept albums, although ELO and Styx dont surprise me

BESW

I highly recommend Monae. She's talented and good-hearted, and she's doing very interesting things with genre and convention.

MC_Hambone

I will definitely check it out. I am always up for new music

BESW

08:00

And check out the music videos too. She's a good dancer and does interesting things with visuals and ethnicity.

MC_Hambone

any song in particular?

BESW

For dancing, Tightrope. For atmosphere and casting, Many Moons.

Both are linked in my rpg question.

In Monae's future ethnic and gender-based diversity is casual and unremarked. She deliberately chose to create a world where androids are the unprivileged, because the android becomes a cipher for all such peoples.

She wants to talk about important real-life Issues without singling out one group's struggles at the expense of another, and the android is the blank slate on which she can do that.

MC_Hambone

in Many Moons.... is the "Voo Doo doo doo doo" the melody from the song on the magic school bus that counts from 1-12?

because its like super familiar

BESW

This, yes.

MC_Hambone

and I am having flashbacks to like 1st grade

BESW

08:05

It was first made for Sesame Street.

MC_Hambone

Hahaha right on, still pretty awesom ei can remember that after 20 years or so hahahah

BESW

@MC_Hambone Talk about successfully catchy.

She's got one other music video, Cold War, in which she just sings to the camera. It's very powerful.

MC_Hambone

Many Moons had me thinking she was French, but Tightrope is making me think she is from the USA

but i really, really, reallydig this

modern music really needs more funky swing beats and a brass section

BESW

She has a very, very small bit in We Are Young but is otherwise not really on the pop radar yet, alas.

@MC_Hambone Yeah: Kanas , New England, Atlanta.

MC_Hambone

I really need to find a reliable way to find good new music. I hate top 40 radio as most of it is garbage, but every once in a while something good does pop up there and I miss it XD

BESW

08:16

afk dinner

@MC_Hambone Lately most of my contemporary music additions to my library have been found via PMVs.

Well, that and tracks for background music in my RPGs.

...and it goes without saying that Dylan's newest albums get snapped up.

MC_Hambone

08:31

i have just been clicking on related videos of Monae's

finally found Cold War

it's brilliant

also, she is exeedingly beautiful

like, i almost think it's not fair for someone to be that good looking and also that talented lol

BESW

Listening to that song on its own, it gets a bit repetitive. But she makes it in that video.

@MC_Hambone And she has Hair.

Like, "The 70s called, you stole all their good taste" Hair.

MC_Hambone

haha yes! I actually dig that pushed forward pompadour look she has goin on

BESW

And she rocks the tux. Seriously classy lady.

MC_Hambone

I just had to google her as I was afraid she was my age or younger... but i lucked out she is actually like 3.5 years older than me

BESW

Speaking of hair, I have to go photograph some.

MC_Hambone

08:36

I hate that I am at the age shere famous people are starting to be my age or younger. it makes me feel old haha

.... that's mysterious

Lord_Gareth

[Massive claw breaks earth on edge of infernal pit, drags self out of the blazing abyss with a mighty roar.]

Mornin'

BESW

@MC_Hambone Heh. She's about my age.

MC_Hambone

'ello!

and at the mention of morning i realize it is almost 5AM for me and I am still awake XD

BESW

@MC_Hambone I'm a graphic designer and I'm working on the local university's production posters. I need luxuriant thick black hair for the foundation of this poster concept.

MC_Hambone

NO REGRETS! also... I really should be doing this history paper...

BESW

08:39

ttfn

MC_Hambone

@BESW i'd offer but I just cut all of mine off

$&have fun photographin' that hair!

BESW

@MC_Hambone It's probably not quite the right texture anyway--the play's topic is local culture and contact zones, so it has to be Chamorro hair.

Lord_Gareth

Bah, just meet new person and he flees.

I see how it is.

MC_Hambone

I take it that is not the hair of a white person decended from a mix of English and French?

BESW

@MC_Hambone Philippine/Pacific/Spanish mix.

With a smattering of Japanese for good measure.

MC_Hambone

08:41

...also my hair is brown not black and kinda unruly in its curls when it gets long lol

@Lord_Gareth

I am here for you

BESW

Okay, leaving for realsies.

Lord_Gareth

Nah 'scoo' if you gotta go, I'm just a drama llama

MC_Hambone

adios

Lord_Gareth

You will get used to this rapidly.

MC_Hambone

I'll be around for a bit, I am just listening to Janelle Monae songs with Archer on pause on netflix... also I am intermittantly reading and highlighting information for a history paper i have due once srping break ends

aka Monday

Lord_Gareth

08:46

What's the subject?

MC_Hambone

it's just a short little thing about how Columbus was basically a huge dick and murdered all the indigenous peoples of the carribean

the tag line we are supposed to write about is, and i quote, "What kind of genocide and terror did Columbus and his murdering hordes bring upon the people of the New World?"

Lord_Gareth

Well, he did encourage all the other white people to show up.

MC_Hambone

and then my professor gave us a short article to read

Lord_Gareth

<-Sowhiteheglows.png

Also imgur.com/gallery/x3gmYHT

MC_Hambone

did you know the spanish were into performing vivisection on human babies?

Lord_Gareth

08:54

@MC_Hambone I didn't know this specifically, but yet I am utterly unsurprised.

You can pretty much sum up a giant portion of European history as, "The West held a competition to see who the biggest, most murderous jerk was."

MC_Hambone

pretty messed up shit in this article, certainly never heard this side of Columbus' adventures when i was in highschool... and was probably skipping class the day they taught it to me the first time I tried out this thing called "college" :D

Lord_Gareth

(Incidentally I think we can agree that the Finns won that competition's Cavalry Division. Hakaa Palle, my friend.)

MC_Hambone

i'll take your word for it :D we white people apparently have an affinity for rampant violence

Lord_Gareth

Well, we did at least.

Generally speaking we've cleaned up our act as societies. That whole 'tolerance' and 'multiculturalism' idea really helped.

Murch

@MC_Hambone If you get around to it, pick up A People's History of the United States, I believe the first chapter covers the Spanish incursion and genocide in the Americas pretty well

Lord_Gareth

09:09

Though the Finns never did stop being raging badasses.

Check out what happened during the Winter War

MC_Hambone

i just may do that, I am not normally interested in history too much, but I am so flabbergasted as to the creativity of the horrendous acts the spanish commited that I am morbidly curious as to what else they might ahve done

Lord_Gareth

During the Thirty Years' War, though, Finnish cavalry may have been the scariest horse-related thing to ever happen to a person, including being drawn and quartered.

MC_Hambone

So much White guilt have I

:(

hahaha

Lord_Gareth

The Finns worked as mercenaries, generally for the kings of Sweden. During a time when everyone's excuse for war was religious, where battle cries were things like "Jesu Maria!" and "God with us!", the Finnish battle cry was "Hack them down!"

2

MC_Hambone

At least they were honest

Lord_Gareth

09:11

They could not be bribed. They did not steal, loot, or pillage. They did not take prisoners, accept surrenders, or spare lives. They showed up, burnt everything to the ground, killed the runners and rode off before the bodies were even cool.

If Finns showed up where you lived it was because Sweden had decided it didn't care about you any more.

And all you could really do was pray.

MC_Hambone

O.O

That's pretty harsh

I would at least take supplies... no need for good food and other materials to go to waste

Lord_Gareth

You mean the food and material they were being supplied from Sweden? That food and material?

Finns didn't care. They had everything they needed provided for them. They did just one job, and they did it frighteningly well.

Even today Finland considers it to be cowardly to fight with your fists; real men pull knives.

(As a result, there are very few bar fights in Finland)

MC_Hambone

Yikes! Note to self, don't get drunk in Finland

Admittedly I would prefer a knife fight that gunfire... I always thought it was more "honorable" to dual via sword fight that by dueling pistols

than gunfire*

Lord_Gareth

Also the birthplace of Simo Haya, called the White Death, who killed an average of eight men a day for the 100 day duration of the Winter War.

Dude killed infantry, tanks, snipers, countersnipers - he held a five mile stretch against Russia by himself with a hunting rifle, a snow suit, and an improbable amount of canned beans.

MC_Hambone

how did no one stop him?

Murch

09:17

@MC_Hambone Short version is: They were wiping out whole peoples, enslaving lots of Natives, many of which died on the trip back to Europe, they even used sick people as carriers in biological warfare to spread flu, measles and smallpox among the natives when they had trouble advancing into the jungles of Central America in plate armor and chain mail.

Lord_Gareth

@MC_Hambone Russia is still asking itself that question in cold terror.

MC_Hambone

@Murch yes indeed, that was covered very well in this article

I am rethinking celebrating COlumbus day

Murch

On the other hand, it is being theorized that the expedition brought back Syphilis to Europe as well.

Lord_Gareth

I mean, some of his techniques are known. For example, he kept snow in his mouth - for days at a time - to hide his breath from Russian troops

Murch

@Lord_Gareth That guy was really badass.

MC_Hambone

09:21

I liked the bit in the article that said Columbus got sick and the men under his command just went crazy killing, pillaging and other horrible things and wehn columbus got well, he basically threw his hands up in the air and said "f*** it" and just told them where to concentrate the depravity

I am also surprised that Simo Haya didnt suffer from hypothermia

Lord_Gareth

@MC_Hambone Hey, ah, I realize you're new, so lemme clue you in - this chat is permanent, can be Google searched, and does have a general PG-13 rating.

We don't technically have a filter but the mods will send angry men to your door, and these angry men will break down in tears so that the whole neighborhood sees how much of a mean meanyface you are.

MC_Hambone

Sorry 'bout that, I shall reign in the language :D

and on that note, we should probably switch the topic off the atrocities of ol' Chris Columbus...

so..... any one heard of a PRG called Spaceship Zero?? :D

Murch

@Lord_Gareth there, I took care of the "f-word" ;)

Lord_Gareth

'Fraid not, Master of the Hambone.

@Murch Pfft, I wasn't offended, I've just been yelled at for it and thought I'd spare him the pain.

'm one of those people who curses just because he's excited or enthusiastic

And I've got this tendency to stop cussin' when I'm angry in favor of inventive, yet not physically possible, threats.

MC_Hambone

I honestly dont normally curse to any significant volume, but admittedly it's like 5:30 Am, I am a bit sleepy and things fly fast and loose when I am pounding Mt Dews to stay awake

Murch

09:27

@Lord_Gareth I agreed, that is why I edited it. Yet, it is good that you tell him

MC_Hambone

And I do appreciate the heads up! :)

Lord_Gareth

Ah, excellent. Brian came to the rescue on this fighter question

Aaand there's my ride to work.

Remember kids, send me money or I'll destroy the world.

doppelgreener

Which one?

MC_Hambone

hahaha!

hopefully Earth 2

hmmm well if no one has heard of Spaceship Zero, what about an easier one? Gamma World!

i just got the pdfs for Gamma World's newest edition, the one apparently built on D&D 4e rules.... anyone know if you can just copy-paste D&D characters into the post apoc Gamma world setting?

I only ask because currently my 4e group has 9 players from my university, and only 4 of them are locals so for game nights over the summer I thought I might send the local player's characters through some kind of time travel portal and make them try to get back to their own time by the time fall semester rolls around... i figured Gamma World would be good for that.

Trajan

09:54

Didn't know Simo Haya was finnish. Wow, that man didn't even use telescopic sight.

BESW

10:41

@MC_Hambone Someday you should look into 1700s-1800s Persia.

> Nothing is more shocking to the European reader, in pursuing his way through the crime-stained and bloody pages of Persian history during the last and, in a happily less degree, during the present century, than the record of savage punishments and abominable tortures, testifying alternately to the callousness of the brute and the ingenuity of the fiend.

> The Persian character has ever been fertile in device and indifferent to suffering; and in the field of judicial executions it has found ample scope for the exercise of both attainments. Up till quite a recent period, well within the borders of the present reign, condemned criminals have been...

> ...crucified, blown from guns, buried alive, impaled, shod like horses, torn asunder by being bound to the heads of two trees bent together and then allowed to spring back to their natural position, converted into human torches, flayed while living.

> (From Lord Curzon's Persia and the Persian Question, 1892.)

And that's the lawful punishment of criminals among their own people.

Nobody's got a monopoly on creative cruelty.

@MC_Hambone Some other SE chats are more lax about the language (ignoring the PG-13 thing), but we try to keep this one classy.

MC_Hambone

@BESW to quote velma Dinkley, "Jeepers!"

that's some pretty hardcore stuff

BESW

@MC_Hambone Indeed. I belong to a religion that started in mid-1800s Persia, so studying that history involves a lot of such things.

@MC_Hambone On a lighter note, a few nights ago we made Fate Core aspects for the Scooby Gang.

Zachiel

10:57

@Trajan being the usual multi-DM game I'd play in if I could choose my feats and be happy with it (which I apparently can't), I'd just avoid that DM. Which is a pity because I like how he narrates and the situations he usually creates.

@JonathanHobbs I think there's a D&D feat called "name of the mage" that puts a fear effect upon you if you say a name, that's usually the feat taker's name but can be changed once a year (or something like that)

MC_Hambone

awww man, thats pretty sweet. Scooby was a favorite cartoon of mine as a kid

Trajan

@BESW was the founder of your religion opposed to such cruelty or was he abiding with the Zeitgeist ?

BESW

@MC_Hambone (I don't know if you're familiar with fate-core or not.)

MC_Hambone

I actually have at least the first season of the original show downloaded to my itunes

Trajan

@Zachiel what do you like in those situations?

BESW

11:00

@Trajan Very much opposed. Thousands of His followers were martyred in truly awful ways because they refused to recant their Faith.

MC_Hambone

only very breifly, I downloaded the Core rulebook and skimmed while researching this answer rpg.stackexchange.com/a/33464/10263

BESW

Fate is currently my RPG of Choice.

MC_Hambone

if i remember correctly it's fairly unrestrictive

BESW

It's... Narrative gaming for the traditional gamer, in a sense.

Trajan

lunch time, ttfn

MC_Hambone

11:07

@Trajan have a good one!

@BESW I think I would like it, I am more of a story driven "player" (mostly I GM tho...) but unfortuneately like 75% of my player base prefers combat to the "RP"

i guess you'd call the roll players

them*

Zachiel

@Lord_Gareth "You can't unstab someone", right?

@Trajan It's hard to define. I like my GMs to provide me a challenging fight and let my character shine through it. If a player wants to do something that's obviously stupid to someone the solution shouldn't be "and I punish you for this" but "these would be the consequences, more or less. Do you still want to do it? What if you did this instead?"

I think I realized I have this hate for uninformed decisions when I was looking at this movie where a bank robber went out of the bank with a group of hostages and he had one of them wear his mask so the police sniper killed an innocent. I kicked into the air out of frustration, unwillingly throwing my slipper against the wall, leaving a footprint in mid-air.

doppelgreener

@Zachiel oh my. Are we talking about a Voldemort feat?

He Who Must Not Be Named?

or just if the wizard himself says it

or it's near the wizard

MC_Hambone

@Zachiel I couldn't agree with you more, I am really annoyed when my players make "uninformed descisions". I have one player inparticular that just says the first thing that comes to his mind and goes with it no matter what the consequences. For example we played Zll Flesh Must Be Eaten today (zombie apocalypse RPG) and he was wearing shorts and decided he wanted to storm a building with out trying to check for any geeks in there

...he got his ankle bitten, and we had to hack off his leg to prevent the spread of infection...

what annoyed me the most what that I offered to allow him to be wearing boots and jeans for protection and asked if he wanted to may throw some rocks into the building to alert and lurkers... he said "NOPE! I storm the building!!!"

Zachiel

11:24

@JonathanHobbs yes, a Voldemort feat. Requires arcane caster level 20. Seems legit (even if it's oh so weak)

@MC_Hambone Urgh. Was that some in-character decision? Was the player pissed off by the consequences?

MC_Hambone

it was and no

the funny part is that we were all playing versions of ourselves

I honestly dont think he would be that asinine if he was really in the Zombie Apoc... but who knows

doppelgreener

@Zachiel i don't think i'd need a feat at that level to inspire fear into the hearts of the people

Zachiel

@JonathanHobbs I think of it as an NPC feat.

doppelgreener

@Zachiel oh yeah good thinking

Zachiel

@JonathanHobbs I think some classes and feats were never intended to be played by PCs (like that horrible fallen druid thing that needs to consume nature to get spells)

MC_Hambone

11:35

@Zachiel why wouldnt a PC want to be a fallen druid? that sounds good for an Antihero or even a character in an 'evil' campaign

doppelgreener

@Zachiel What!? O_O I have never heard of this

Zachiel

@MC_Hambone It's not what the character is. It's what he needs to do to cast spells. It's not subtle at all, in a world where paladins are a thing.

@JonathanHobbs Masters of the Wild / Complete Divine, I think. Let me check

I can never remember the name of the class

MC_Hambone

You can be a ... what is it... a 'dark' paladin or something like that, i dont quite remember the name

but they arent the goody goody paladins most people think of

i wouldnt think a fallen druid would be a good fit in a party of good aligned characters for sure

Zachiel

You can be LE Paladin of Tyranny and go to the good guys' city and tell them "I'm building a fort. I will kill orcs that are harassing you. And yes, I'm going to proselitize for my dark lord since my deeds will benefit my followers. I'm not attacking you. I believe you have no reasons for attacking me."
That's a good way to be openly evil to me.

MC_Hambone

definitely sounds like a good Lawful Evil character

possibly pure neutral

Zachiel

11:41

But going there and just razing a forestedd area and killing all the animals every day is just going to get someone very willing to kill you ASAP

BESW

Sorry I vanished. Had to help my dad on something suddenly that flared out of control.

MC_Hambone

Again, I pretty much agree, but I have heard of people playing the villains in campaigns

@BESW sounds like things got... heated

[rim shot]

BESW

@MC_Hambone I stay with my folks and work out of the home so I can help with my dad's care and take over curating his stock photos.

MC_Hambone

I apologize for the pun

Zachiel

@MC_Hambone Oh, no. He's also enforcing laws and very explicitly going to kill whoever breaks them, and openly worships some devil and lure in people that wants more power. He's just being nice to the good town because it's convenient and it frustrates them by being perfectly legal and convenient, giving them no reason to eradicate the new fortress before it becomes a threat. Whic it's gonna become later (a schemer villain is no less a villain than a CE rampaging beast)

MC_Hambone

11:46

i have been watching a lot of Archer

doppelgreener

@MC_Hambone there's the ~~blackguard~~ antipaladin (whoops) in pathfinder!

those're cool

Zachiel

The Blighter, on the other hand... is just "oh, what? WHY? We must stop him now."-aborrhent.

doppelgreener

d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/antipaladin

MC_Hambone

That is a pretty sweet pic

BESW

@JonathanHobbs Systems like 3.PF, because they use the same rules for PC and NPC advancement, have a very hard time differentiating between features intended for only one or the other.

MC_Hambone

11:48

i wouldnt want to meet him in a dark dungeon

doppelgreener

@BESW yes and naturally could do with something like 4e's idea of just having monsters

BESW

It's really obvious in 4e whether a feature is intended only for NPCs, and generally NPCs don't pick up a lot of PC features. But in 3.PF... a class is a class and a feat is a feat.

MC_Hambone

is it bad that I tend to make all of my major villians as fully fledged PCs in 4e?

BESW

Save-or-die in the hands of a PC may make some fights anticlimactic, but in the hands of an NPC it may become a horrible thing.

@MC_Hambone If you could keep track of that much stuff, more power to ya.

doppelgreener

@MC_Hambone it's not great

primarily because 4e players are given powers that are fun to use

whilst monsters are given powers that are fun to have used on you

2

BESW

11:51

This is a crucial distinction.

MC_Hambone

there never seems to be a good enough villian in the MMs tho...

doppelgreener

If you can do it and everyone's having fun with it, all objectives are met

MC_Hambone

hell there isnt even an Orc Warlock type character

doppelgreener

@MC_Hambone You roll your own. I did that constantly.

I would take a guy who was kinda like what I wanted, and reskin him, then mix and match to make up the difference, or invent my own stuff that'd be fun for my players to have used on them.

BESW

Starting around level 4 I started doing major revisions of NPCs, and by level 11 I was frequently throwing out everything except the basic concept and re-building from the ground up.

doppelgreener

11:53

I made a goblin into a rock wolf and some huge ugly thing into some huge rock golem thing.

BESW

By level 18ish I was making most everything from whole cloth, with a lot of inspiration from @Magician's blog.

MC_Hambone

kinda of related... is it strange to have a group of around 5 players at level 1 able to take on a level 5 monster with a few level 1 brutes and a handful of minions?

BESW

@MC_Hambone Not at all! One moment...

MC_Hambone

i only let my players start with 1 magic item (if they so chose) and they were usually just a generic +1

BESW

14

A: How do I balance an encounter for my party?

The DMG talks about how to do this, but I've found that it needs some tweaking to be really effective. What level should an encounter be? DMG 56 says: An easy encounter is one or two levels lower than the party’s level. A standard encounter is of the party’s level, or one level higher....

4e has a totally different approach to encounters and NPC challenge ratings.

While in 3.PF a CR 5 monster is supposed to challenge a level 5 party, in 4e a level 5 monster challenges a single level 5 PC.

doppelgreener

11:56

... I once gave my players a hard encounter.

Actually, two in a row.

BESW

4e is a game of combat tactics, so its NPC challenge budget is designed to support flooding the stage with creatures to make tactics more interesting.

doppelgreener

In our first campaign.

One or two came close to dying both times, but afterwards they basically just stood up and brushed some dust off themselves. They'd barely even lost healing surges.

MC_Hambone

yeah i did notice the part about higher level NPCs not being hittable, so i would adjust the AC down by 1 or 2 points, but thats about it

BESW

And yes, in 4e PCs are hardy hard-to-squish heroes from level 1. They don't have to earn their awesomeness like in 3.PF.

MC_Hambone

now i have 9 players and combatis rediculously simple or takes FOR-freaking -EVER

BESW

11:58

@MC_Hambone As I say in that question above, use the elite/solo options if you want a single monster to be more challenging. Keep all of them at the party's level, and ignore the DMG telling you to make them five levels higher.

doppelgreener

BESW once had an encounter following one of the adventures verbatim where the players had to fight... what was it, a brute a few levels higher?

The entire encounter was long and drawn out because they were never hitting him.

BESW

21

Q: What GM tasks can be delegated to players to speed up encounters?

My party's encounters (D&D4e - 13th level) take on average 3-4 hours. We chit chat a lot and are pretty easily distracted, and it's not a huge deal because we're all having fun. But lately we've been discussing strategies to push through encounters a little faster. Two ideas that came up were: ...

dnd-4e gm-techniques players

MC_Hambone

I knew this day would come... I guess it's finally time to learn how to create actual NPCs

doppelgreener

It's funner to have lower AC so they hit often, but giving them enough HP to last quite a while.

BESW

@JonathanHobbs Once? You flatter me. I don't learn my lessons that fast.

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