@C.Ross ^_°

@agradine Unfortunately, it's also when they're gonna crash.

@Zachiel ??

hey maaan, play FATE and you can be AAAAANYTHIIING

I really need to check FATE out myself

The only pictures I get of it are that it's either the second coming of our lord and savior in tabletop roleplaying form, or that its basically the rpg for hippies

Well, both a bit as well, in some sense.

I imagine the reality lies where it always does, somewhere in the middle

It's not really the hardcore of RPG hippiedom, though.

@AlexP not at all

@agradine it's a well design narrative game

@agradine You know, you want to be the badass fighter who does not fear magic and... nope, you can't. Or the shapeshifting wizard who can trick everyone and... not enough charisma or bluff ranks, I'm sorry.

@AlexP What game would you classify like that? Sea Dracula maybe?

Or maybe In Spaaace?

Shall it be Clover?

🍌

unknown character

I feared as much

Depending on your font, it is also a banana.

@Zachiel Well, it depends on what you mean by "hippie," really. I think of RPG hippieness as being radical rather than soft. So the hippie games are more like, erm...

These days Doomed Pilgrim.

More generally, anything by Emily Care Boss, for example.

@AlexP Is Valiant Girl hippy enough for you? I'm not familiar with Care Boss's titles.

@Zachiel Probably, if it's the game I'm thinking of.

The one talking about being a female in Somalia, by Meguey Baker.

TBH I think Fate isn't very indie/hippie at all in its overall sensibility. It's not a game that fights you.

@AlexP Which was that one about guys rebelling against invasors...?

@Zachiel Grey Ranks, you mean?

About the Polish children?

No. It's a game where the GM is the new government and players take turns at introducing new laws while they play scenes...

@Zachiel so your basic assumption is that all of my players will eventually rebel against 3.5 because it's too limiting?

@agradine I certainly don't think that's true, even though I'd totally encourage people to do that. ;)

@agradine No, not at all. My theory is that they will adapt to 3.5 or d... uhm, or rebel. People usually adapts.

Well, we'll see. I'm slowly starting to branch out and check out other systems, but I'm not going to throw an entirely new set of rules at a group until they've grown tired of the old one

There was a game system I remember reading about is a popular non-D&D game to keep set in Eberron, which my players are loving so far

Savage Worlds, I think it was called?

Ah, the webmaster of one of my play by chat sites plays it. As far as I know it's still very traditional in scope

I also think it's a simpler version of GURPS but I'm not sure about that

Oof. That's discouraging.

If it's true, anyway

My suggestion, Agradine, would be to play some short, one-session games when your D&D group can't show up full numbers, if you want to try something new. Most "new" games have really simple rules.

I usually get to play 4 to 10 new games per year with one shots like that (usually during gaming conventions, since I organize one)

@Zachiel it's definitely not a simpler version of GURPS

it is a traditional game

I'm mostly just looking learn new systems for my own edification right now. I'll wait for my players to d... err, rebel (or at least demonstrate incredible stress in adapting) to D&D's... pecularities before trying to push a new system on them.

For now they're having fun with what we've got, and seem interested in exploring new ways to have fun within the system.

@C.Ross What was the name of that one then?... [goes around, wondering]

@agradine as long as they're having fun, everything goes

@agradine That's a good insight.

@Zachiel not sure which one you mean

Savage Worlds is a simple traditional system, perhaps best known for it's "exploding dice"

I... I've already discussed many, many reasons because D&D-like games do not satisfy me anymore, while having some elements I'm not willing to abandon.

@C.Ross Oh it wasn't meant to be answered.

For what it's worth I feel like I've got a fair amount of skill in pummeling D&D into a shape more appealing to my players, to borrow and mangle a metaphor from @BESW

I do second @Zachiel's suggestion to take advantage of unusual circumstances, like extra-short sessions or only having a couple players, to run some one-shot games in other simple systems. Just to give people a taste for what's out there--it'll expand their D&D capacity, if nothing else.

Roll for Shoes, Everyone is John, Fate Accelerated, Dawn of Worlds, etc.

I've got one this weekend actually, my wife and a friend in the group are both out of town. I was planning on using the weekend for board games with the rest of the group

I'm not sure my D&Dcapacity has been expanded, really. Now that I'm aware of what I could get from different games I have -more- problems with D&D.

True. Fate seems particularly suited for that. We created a setting, characters, and played an adventure (albiet a simple one) in Fate Core in less than three hours.

... Og ...

I do want to get everyone to try a game of Dread at some point, but most because I'm evil

@Zachiel give it time ...

@BESW Og is traditional

@Zachiel And?

It's a mind-bending experience nonetheless, for a group largely experienced in D&D.

@BESW Well, I'd like them to try something completely different

@C.Ross Isn't 6 years enough?

My goal would be to stretch the party's RPG experience in various directions. That may require moving slowly at first so they don't balk, and it doesn't have to be dramatic or only in one direction.

@Zachiel Took me nine.

@Zachiel and me eleven or so

Heh, I've been playing D&D in some form or another since I was... what, 7 or 8?

@Zachiel I have a similar experience. That said, now that I have knowledge of other games, I also know what I could have in D&D through modifications that I otherwise wouldn't have - but I could just go play other games instead. :)

I still remember my first character... a kender. /shudder/

@C.Ross as an insight, the problem I have with this specific thing is more a problem about realizing how D&D works, in comparison to the other games. I am happy when I don't know the rules because I can't recognize when the DM is helping me to achieve something. As soon as I can see all the little spots where he uses rule 0 to fix the balance of combat, I feel useless

@agradine WRYYYYY

@Zachiel You'd have that just from being a DM.

@JonathanHobbs Can you imagine a seven-year-old playing a kender? I must've been a nightmare

@agradine You probably also role-played that kender perfectly.

@JonathanHobbs No, I had not. Because I sometimes helped the monsters in the beginning, letting them live another turn or having their buffs all start from one second before the door got opened but I never voluntarily forgot to roll for some damage, save them if I rolled a critical or similar things

@BESW .... yes, this

In other words, I soon decided to never use rule 0 to the point of saying "if it's not on the book you can't do it". (A really different problem. As everybody knows I'm not confident inmy own decisions so I try to avoid needing to make choices.) - When I make NPCs I try to build them as good as I can - luckily I stopped doing NPCs before discovering uberchargers and easy metamagic wizards

Tweets to Campaign By reflects on the possible motives behind this dastardly, yet esoteric, long-term scheme.