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01:00 - 14:0014:00 - 00:00

01:41
@KRyan How does a level 1 barbarian outrun Usain Bolt?
I totally believe it, I'm just wondering how.
40 feet per 6 seconds
with two move actions, 80 feet
with a run action, 160 feet
you've got to get ~300 ft in <10 seconds though
call it 320 really
or maybe better 640ft in 3 turns
@shatterspike1 That's not quite there... Usain Bolt's record is 100m in 9.76 seconds, which is 33.62 feet/second - 160 feet in 6 seconds is only 26.67 feet/second.
Still very impressive.
yeah
And certainly well above the human norm - but not quite outrunning Usain Bolt.
01:46
Hmm... maybe it was an exaggeration
I dunno
If you could reach 202 feet/second in a turn, that would break his record. Maybe there are level 1 speed feets feats involved.
you can take feats for move speed
it wasn't lvl 1, but in 4E I made a character who could go 10 squares as a normal move
some of that was feats
some racial
stuff like that
I am not sure if 4E had a turn strictly labeled as 6 seconds or not
@trogdor You can go at double speed in a single move action, can't you?
uh
in 4E I believe the run action let you go 2 more squares
but you could use your whole turn to move double
@trogdor it is
01:51
and now that I think of it, that same character could use a minor to jump his speed too
a normal non heavy armored character's max speed is 80ft/6 seconds
so he could technically go 34 squares in a turn
my best attempt at a L1 and L2 speed build in 4e: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/15141/…
and yeah, that pixie is faster than Mr. Bolt
but she can't sustain it
yeah
Olympic runners are amazing people
one guy in our group was obsessed with movespeed
and Bolt is special even among olympic runners. His dominance in both the 100 and 200 is historic
01:55
I think the character he made could go 64 squares in a turn
@waxeagle yeah
but I am impressed enough by most Olympic runners anyway
and he is great, but I don't want to just glaze over these people who are behind him
cause they are still working hard and running faster than I can by far
anyway, he had items to get to 64 squares from using all his actions, running with extra bonuses, feats for extra move
and his ED gave him extra actions
just all the time
@waxeagle Apparently people from his region of Africa - and that region alone - have evolved different muscle fibers from other humans
02:01
so
like a mutation?
Yeah. Like a good mutation. Though that was from an article I read a couple of years ago, so I don't know if I can find it now.
well
I don't assume mutations are bad
automatically I mean
some are extra heads, and that is useually not a good thing
but a mutation isn't bad or good until you know exactly what it does
I can't remember the nature of it, but it was good for running xD
I imagine so
I seem to recall an anthropology lesson that said our leg muscles are more specialized for long distance movement than speed
partly because we whooped a lot of predators with tools and numbers rather than outrunning them
actually it's beyond that, even before we had tools our hunting methods were based on long distance running
02:09
mm
there are more factors than that yes
early humans hunted by chasing animals until their prey collapsed from heat exhaustion :D
which is hilarious
XD yes
have you heard about this before?
@JonathanHobbs about this?
it sounds familliar
can't say I clearly remember it though
O:
i learned about it last year i think
@BESW Hi!
02:20
[mumbles]
@JoshuaAslanSmith That game seems mostly dead, but I'd be happy to run a one-on-one FAE session or two some time.
@BESW It's not dead, it's waiting.
lol
it seemed dead to me
even my cats can't wait this long
@Problematic Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Enchanted Forest Fate Game Room wgah'nagl fhtagn!
The Elder Aspects?
02:33
I suppose the Fate Fractal is a kind of Alien Geometries.
03:09
I am intrigued
Alien Geometries is something I've always been curious about pulling off in-game
I'm being facetious; the Fate Fractal has nothing to do with geometry at all
But I have done some Alien Geometries in a 4e campaign.
I am now sad
also, this makes me want to design a system built for alien geometries
I once ran a combat with Far Realm creatures that could ignore normal movement unless they were within three squares of a sapient non-Far-Realm creature.
Their minds imposed order on the nothingness, even when no order was there
Although I'm thinking more "upper-dimensional geometry projected into three dimensions"
The MM3 has a minion that is removed from the board when it rolls initiative or is missed in combat, and at the start of the minion's next turn it could be placed anywhere in 10 squares of where it vanished.
@shatterspike1 Have you read Flatland?
03:22
Never actually read it, but heard about it on TV Tropes
Upper-dimensional geometry in three dimensions is going to look like three-dimensional geometry, but will be able to "move" in amusing ways. What is the fourth dimension for you? time?
In Flatland, a sphere comes to Flatland.
Only a single cross-section of the sphere could interact with Flatland at a time, because Flatland is two-dimensional.
So the sphere appeared to be a point which widened into an ever-larger circle before shrinking to a point again and vanishing.
"Projected," you say?
When I think "upper-dimensional geometry" I think "tesserect"
Each cube being one of the tesserects "sides"
@AlexP Am I viewing the same creature at the same time from two different angles?
@shatterspike1 No, you are looking at "fingers."
You see, humans are many bubbles. Whereas the Orz are fingers. From below.
Well. I'll never sleep again.
03:32
The whole time you're talking to them, the translator can't actually figure out what they are saying.
My typically assumption is just that they exist in many places at once, some cross planar, when presented with this sort of thing
So they have another species from "above"?
@shatterspike1 Yeah, they're basically benevolent greys.
Orz do not like them because they are always * jumping in front * which interferes with * parties *
So the Orz are hostile?
Not to you.
Because you are * happy campers *
As long as you don't ask them about certain things, at least
Star Control 2 is primarily an exploration game. You recruit a bunch of alien species kinda like how people recruit party members in CRPGs.
If you bug them too much about why you are meeting them in the ruins of a civilization whose last surviving texts describe reality-melting Cthulhoid horror, the Orz become * frumple *
So they stomp you into oblivion?
03:41
I think you just have to fight them normal-like. Their ships aren't that bad, IIRC.
Ah
Very odd
That's Star Control 2. ;)
I do like how well they did comical-creepy.
ooh Star Control 2
and even my favorite race
@AlexP you can kill their ships pretty easy with starter human ships
but they are useful against certain other aliens
if you make them happy instead of * frumple *
heck, * Happy * probably is more accurate
My opinion of alien geometries in most RPGs is that they're best left narrative, with the occasional rule-ignoring.
Although if you ever want to really mess with your players, force them to use a hex grid in a square-grid game or vice versa.
03:56
lol
Or just impose movement rules from a different system, like 3.5 in a 4e game.
Star Control 2 did it well I think, you get a half explanaiton that you can't fully understand from * Fingers * of the race that lives there
and the other race who knows, who doesn't have trouble communicating to you in your language, litterally does not want to tell you because not telling you is protecting you
it's enough to tease you into wanting to know, without actually trying to explain how it works
Alternatively, you could go all House of Leaves with your alien geometries. Really break that fourth wall, you know? I suggest covertly remodeling your house between each session.
lol
that works too
I personally prefer not trying to explain it
Imagine the payoff when someone goes to the bathroom and then turns a corner to find themselves in an exact copy of your gaming room.
04:00
in a meta way I mean
Except maybe all of the furniture is on the ceiling, for good measure.
lol
except then why are you not on the ceiling too?
Because you are in the first game room. No one is in the other room, except your one lost friend.
Also maybe a minotaur.
04:23
Omigoshomigoshomigoshomigosh! People are getting their Fate dice already!
Based on previous showing, I expect mine in three and a half weeks.
@JonathanHobbs Fast Movement from barbarian, Run and Dash feats (1st level and Human, respectively), and Quick trait for 55 ft. move speed, and run action for 5x move speed as a full-round action, so 275 ft. moved in a round, or 6 seconds, for a speed of 45.833 ft/s, or just shy of 14 m/s. Usain Bolt's record 100 m dash lasted 9.58 s, for a 10.4 m/s speed.
@JonathanHobbs With the typical array (i.e. Con 11), while Raging the barbarian can run at this speed for a minute and a half straight, and then start to make Constitution checks that start at DC 10 and increase by 1 each round
@JonathanHobbs Failure on any check prevents him from continuing to run (for a minute), but has no other effect on him
I did something similar with a catfolk ranger, giving him one level in Barb and a handful of feats/traits.
@BESW yeah, but the context is modeling actual people in D&D, so using human as the race was compulsory
Fair enough.
I think using a human probably actually increased the potential speed at level 1.
even without Dash and Quick, you still get very close to Usain Bolt's speed, and the endurance stuff stays
@BESW with two feats, quite possible
04:32
true
but later, the one extra feat will eventually not mean anything
@trogdor noooope
that feat means you get the next feat sooner
qualify for prestige classes sooner or more easily
etc.
there aren't infinite amounts of speed feats
it's just cumulative
@trogdor oh, speed specifically
well assuming we are only talking about movespeed
yes
jeez, I am not talking bout 3.5 all the way around, I don't have 2 weeks to dedicate to talking about this
lol :P
that extra feat from being human is useful, we can leave it at that
I just mean that if a racial speed bonus exists, at some point, for specifically speeds sake, that extra human feat will eventually only mean the same or less for movespeed
04:58
@KRyan That is impressive.
Hello
Hey.
Hey
What's been happening?
People looking for online 3.5 and Fate games.
Speculation on RPG implementation of Alien Geometries.
Fudge Dice for Fate Games are showing up in mailboxes that aren't mine.
05:03
mmm, nice digest
 
2 hours later…
06:56
Too quiet. Allow me to note that there's a Bunkers & Badasses module DLC campaign for Borderlands 2 that offers such grenades as Magic Missile, a homing grenade that spawns two to four child grenades.
Sleep time now.
Oh, also, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Fireball, and Fire Storm.
 
3 hours later…
10:17
Too quiet again.
10:33
Hey Trog'.
What's up?
not much
mostly waiting for tomorrow I guess
listening to the awesome Overmind voice
11:00
Heya @Leokhorn
Hi there!
@AlexP Ohhh, another * camper * who likes to * play * :D
@Zachiel Chat is pretty quiet at this time of day eh?
Yeah.
By the way, I'm organizing a D&D 3.5e level 1 game with Aaron, it will take place... in the afternoon, UTC time, is someone interested?
@Zachiel On chat?
on roll20
@leokhorn lol
so I see there are at least 3 of us then
11:10
not -this- afternoon, unless I get all three players ready, character sheets et al
@Zachiel Is this meant to be a one-shot? What's the setting? Other tidbits of import you can give? :)
@trogdor Ah yes, it's been a while but I loved the aliens in that game. Not so much the gameplay, though.
Also, is UTC currently 11:13am?
It's gonna be an adventure. I've chosen Expedition to Undermountain since it's modular and I always wanted to try it and never got the occasion. Forgotten Realms setting, core manuals and I must make my mind up on some completes and how much of PGtF to allow - Aaron was looking for something not optimized and not requiring him to read lots of things (or at least that's my understanding)

I'm GMT+1 so here is 01:13 PM (legal time), I usually end lunch at 2:45 or 1:45 depending on the weekday
we're running it on roll20 because Aaron can't install things on his at-work PC
@Zachiel I'm GMT+1 too, so that much would be good. I guess I'm trying to get a sense of how long this could be, both per session and number of sessions to expect. Wouldn't want to say "yes!" if I'm not going to be available most of the time ^^;
@leokhorn It's my first try at this so I have absolutely no idea. But as I said it's modular so we could easily drop after the first part and who wants to continue can. If I find a job, bye bye everybody, and so on.
and I keep having disconnections, NGGGGGHHHHHHHRRRRRRHHH
@Zachiel Yeah, I also have some job-search related things happening next week, thus the question.
11:25
Lenght per session, we need to decide it togheter
But if strict attendance is not a requirement, I could be interested.
I guess it's a "let's play when we can" - the less other things to do one has, the best but life happens, to everyone.
@Zachiel Fair enough :). Anything you have in mind for the party composition and depth of characters?
I'd rather have a good party (neutral at most) and characters with a personality, but I'd like some partecipationism on the players' side and no problematic character types.
Aaron is going to be a cleric (of Gond, mosst probably) so I think we're ok on the healing side. Since it'ss the low levels and there is not much splat I guess the tier thing won't be a problem right now (I'm eventually open to rebuilds if some character feels useless). I think it will be 3 players max because I want to ease players being there. I'm not this good with roleplaying in English so...
I don't know how deep characters could fare but keep in mind it's D&D, where the effective way to face adverssities is being murderhoboes
11:47
@Zachiel I'd prefer not-too-deep characters, so is fine :). Also a non-native speaker, so I understand.
Also, you mentioned roll20, but will it be text-chat or voice-chat?
text.
God I hate my connection
hello all
Friends don't let friends be murder hobos
I need to determine why it goes off so randomly some days
Hi there Joshua
12:19
Goodmorning.
12:38
Hello
Hey.
12:54
@Zachiel eh. Low-level helps but doesn't guarantee that there won't be a tier issue (particularly if others choose very low-tier options), and lack of supplements doesn't help much at all since all the best cleric spells are in the Player's Handbook anyway. Not saying there's likely to be a problem; you seem to be friends with Aaron so he's not likely to try to mess up your game. Just correcting some misstatements.
13:12
Is it bad that I find Breaking Bad inspirational for my current story?
@KRyan PHB has no Divine Insight, for example, and that hampers some of the versatility - the thing that, way more than sheer power, makes tier 1 classes what they are
They're really great at doing unexpected things. It's not like what you're used to from every other show.
As for the friends thing, we met here not long ago so... I don't know. Let time tell us how mutually reasonable we can get
And no Persistent clerics either, which makes them better than fighters -from round one-
As long as you're not going to have a Fighter and a Warblade in the same party. Poor fighter. :P
Baldur's Gate II taught me really much on the unbalance of spellcasters when they know they're going into trouble. Precast all, go in and destroy.
13:16
Yeah, video games really mess with balance in that aspect.
Adventurers are usually getting into trouble rather than letting trouble come at them, that's a problem
"Oh, I'm going to face Elementals? I better reload a prepare some banishments and protection spells."
You mean it doesn't happen even in your real games? It's the players that decide when to go in, not the NPCs
I'd say it's 50/50.
Oh no the specific preparation is not an issue
I've had the NPCs teleport in at night once, it was a fun battle. They eventually lost because they were surrounded and amassed in the middle of the room
13:18
Last time I had a werewolf using guerrilla tactics on my players.
Can work if he heals faster
@William'MindWorX'Mariager A man selling his soul one piece at a time in an effort to save his family all the while losing sight of both who he is and his goal in the process is a timeless, boundless story
13:37
@Zachiel it's missing spells but not the best ones. It's missing Divine Metamagic and Persistent Spell, but the cleric is still tier 1 without those. And non-full-casters are missing more without supplements. Basically my point is that supplements in 3.5 lead to greater, not worse, balance.
One of the problems is that if I allow martial supplements, the arcanists can still benefit from those
Like the divine feats, that were an idea to improve the Paladin
and ended up improving the cleric way more
not more, no
the cleric goes from "already overpowered" to "somewhat more overpowered"
the paladin goes from "well, two levels are good-ish; nice saves, anyway" to "hey, he's got some pretty nice spells, and he can cast them as a Swift action so it doesn't interfere with his fighting"
It'ss which spells a paladin can persist and which a cleric can persist
Oh, complete champion
Complete Champion does more for martial characters than any book save Tome of Battle
As you might already know, one of my problems is that more options = more power and my NPCs could suffer a lot from this
13:41
my point is that the cleric already has sufficient options
even with all books legal, most of a cleric's spells are going to come from the PHB because those are the best ones
Most of the cleric's power comes straight out of the PHB, and adding bits and pieces to it won't make his power skyrocket the way non-Core content can make a martial character's power increase.
divine power, heal, divine might, divine favor... then what?
"skyrocket" might be a bit optimistic
but it helps far more than it hurts
@Zachiel righteous might, harm
and really, what more do you need?
I don't really play clerics, aside from 1-level dips
so I don't know their spell list super-well
I'm open to suggestions on how to balance characters against usual pre-made enemies
@Zachiel oh, well
that's not going to happen
pre-made enemies are almost always useless
13:44
I did enjoy the splatbook cheese which let me heal my party while standing on the other side of a solid rock wall ten feet thick.
@Zachiel When will we be starting that game? I think I am going to go for a Wood elf druid.
Ok, cleric is less of a problem now XD
heh, true
though he does you a favor by taking an elf race
I was thinking about cleric but decided against it. The crafting domain and metal domain would have been fun but I really like druids.
@KRyan Hows that?
@Aaron druids don't care anything about str/dex, but con is their second-most-important ability
because Wild Shape
it replaces Str and Dex, but not Con
13:46
@Aaron I'm trying to see if someone else wants to join (@Leokhorn has expressed interest) and I both want to try for some balanced character creation thanks to the insight of the guys (and gals) here and to get all on thee same boat before starting. Apart for that I think I could play right now.
ah. Hey which book has the descriptions for the feats needed for crafting magic items?
Wood elf is a non-optimal choice for a druid that isn't going to trade in wild shape for something else.
There was an elf with no con penalty
@BESW trading in wild shape is already already suboptimal ;)
Since their bonus stats are the ones replaced by wild shape.
13:47
@Zachiel there are several actually, but wood elf isn't one
@KRyan I did it for nearly every druid I ever ran, just because I didn't want the complexity.
is it wild elf?
@BESW same here, actually
@BESW I am not much for optimization I liked the wood elf backstory and demeanor. Do they take a con negative?
Yes, it was a power drop, but it was also a massively smaller headache.
13:47
@Aaron yeah, it's the reason why a lot of players ... don't really like taking elven races
@BESW I also make doing so compulsory in my games
Hrm.
let me crack the book open - it's one of the few books my group owns that's actually at my home
I ran a wood elf dragon shaman with a scythe and a feat build for jumping power attacks... he was entertaining.
13:48
I really dislike the dragon shaman class
it's weak but more importantly it just seems like really poor design
dragonfire adept, on the other hand, is pretty awesome
It did what I wanted for that particular character.
fair enough
DfA is just kind of like "dragon shaman as it should have been in the first place" in my mind
He was a mobile team buffer with high damage.
particularly since the DfA can get any draconic auras he might want
In a group of highly non-optimized characters, he shone.
13:50
anyway, gotta go
later all
Also, he had permanent spider climb from the class, which made his jumping even more amusing.
@Aaron, your character is going to be a wild one in the biggest town of the whole world. What's your idea for justifying that? (I also have a possible "he's forced to" hook but if you have some ideas I'd like your character to be yours as much as it can)
@Zachiel I was planning on playing on a curious nature. Wild elfs are also helpful.
Brb work meeting.))
@Zachiel: so ah, are things happening a bit faster than expected for the game?
no, I'm just saying that I am ready, meaning you won't have to wait for me. But I expect you all to take some more time to be ready too.
I'm starting to think we could really open a room here for discussing perceived and/or balance problems we meet while playing and getting hints from the other guys on how to solve them.
13:59
Any particular reason it should be a separate room?
Not being invadent I guess
I could also do it here and save it as conversations
Unless @Aaron is planning on taking Vow of Poverty. Then it gets its own room in less time than you can say "fight!"
01:00 - 14:0014:00 - 00:00

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