TRPG General Chat

wax eagle

00:08

@C.Ross it's nightlies which explicitly aren't supported

Metool

00:23

Oh whoops, what's going on?

BESW

01:18

@AlexP It's a rather specific quest narrative structure that clearly provides the blanks to be filled in.

Problematic

01:32

My other idea was "[quest narrative]"

I think it has merit.

BESW

Fudge Dice for Fate Games update: second prototype shipment has arrived, and so far everything is still on schedule.

Metool

01:47

[Round] [Encounter] [Scene] [Quest]

Problematic

It pays better to be a taxicab chauffeur in New York than a professor in most universities. MN1910

Tweeted by TweetsofOld on July 24, 2013 at 1:47 AM

Oh how far we've fallen.

Metool

What.

BESW

@Metool TweetsofOld consists of sentences lifted from turn-of-the-last-century newspapers.

Metool

Oh, that is some much-needed context, thanks.

BESW

MN1910 is the state and year.

Metool

01:51

Oh, so US only?

BESW

So far as I've seen.

Probably something to do with the databases the poster has available.

Alex P

02:21

@BESW I use "quest narrative" more specifically than most RPGers do, I guess.

BESW

@AlexP Unless you're using that to mean something much more specific than I'm familiar with, it's a very broad term.

Alex P

It's a journey to a "forbidden" place, where you face some kind of moral tests to attain (an object, knowledge, &c.) and bring it back home, to solve a problem or bring about some kind of great change.

I guess the return doesn't always happen.

Alex P

03:32

Oh boy. We're fighting a bit on B&CG.

0

Q: Is the focus on Magic a problem? Is there anything to do about it?

Disclaimer - I'm the founder of Draw3Cards, originally a Stack Exchange 1.0 site. I'm not an avid user of Boardgames SE, and have recently stopped paying attention to Draw3Cards as well, in favor of other projects. magic-the-gathering has as many questions as the next 6 tags combined. Is this a ...

It's for a good cause, sorta.

Magician

04:00

Morning!

Metool

It's 11 at night central.

Magician

Always a morning somewhere

Metool

why do people always turn to that argument?

Magician

Because the world is round :)

Alex P

@Magician Kinda. It's annoyingly lumpy.

Though at least for almost all practical purposes you can get away with modeling it as an ellipsoid.

I'm reading Bankuei's old rewrites of Forge-y stuff. They are so much more appealing than the actual old Forge-y stuff.

doppelgreener

04:52

Don't know if @BESW has already posted this one, but

Black bugs, millions of them, came from somewhere Monday night, and they haven't all gone away yet. OH1913 h/t @arjadi

Tweeted by TweetsofOld on July 23, 2013 at 12:43 PM

trogdor

I do not recall it, if he did

BESW

> Most of your “problem players” are just people who want to play a different game and are either under the illusion that you were playing a different game to begin with, or that different games could be mixed.

4

QFT.

@AlexP I'm going to be quoting/linking this, too now. When I'm done reading, it'll probably go into my Useful Links.

(Also, Fate Update: still nothing.)

Alex P

I'd say like 3% of "problem players" are maybe more than that. In the sense that they're just awful people to do anything with, or their desired approach to fun in RPG is inherently parasitic (the guy who's obsessed with screwing other PCs but doesn't actually want to play a game where they will legitimately do that as well).

BESW

05:07

Aye.

It happens, but it's not likely enough to happen at any given table that it should be a major element of the RPG community ethos like it is.

Problematic

@JonathanHobbs Bugs, Mr. Rico! Zillions of 'em!

Alex P

Indeed.

Alex P

05:20

@BESW It's kinda amazing how sometimes 'problem' behaviors evaporate once you've established some trust together.

which can take many sessions, granted

if the habits are well-entrenched

One of the other posts along that vein has a thing about oddball characters as a way to avoid gaming trouble. (Short version: when you can't trust that your character won't appear foolish or that the game won't undercut or sideline everything he stands for, you can default to quirky behavioral traits and lots of minor in-party interaction.)

And that reminded me of a guy I played with. Who made oddball/treacherous characters continually. Like not so much schemey treacherous as FLIP OUT! treacherous. And I reacted to that by basically crapping on his PC. Which is exactly wrong because it drives the powerlessness that leads to doing that stuff in the first place.

BESW

Misunderstanding motive can be a powerful force for conflict.

Alex P

05:36

Honestly his creative agenda was kind of to be a jerk -- as a way to get other players to take notice, I guess -- but I could've done a lot to make it better instead of worse.

Partly I should have been way more active in helping him "powergame" so he didn't make characters that looked good at first glance but were lame in play.

(Like a mystic theurge in a level-6-ish game.)

BESW

I broke mystic theurge at level 9, but that's because the group was using a homebrew spell point system.

Divine and arcane spell points were tallied separately, and I could use either for any spell.

So I could cast divine fireballs and arcane heals.

Then they also had a spellpoint regen system to avoid the five-minute workday... every round of combat and three rounds thereafter, you regenerate your casting modifier's worth of spellpoints.

I had two casting mods.

At level 9 I couldn't spend spellpoints faster than I was regenning them unless I spammed top-level spells.

Alex P

Yowch.

BESW

(It helped that I'd rolled two 18s.)

This was the campaign where I was asked to help them RP, so I made him a 67-year-old human. Increased my casting stats and dropped my hp to the point where I had STRONG motive to engage in RP over combat.

I also stacked up on flaws for the same end.

Alex P

@BESW Ah, that guy.

I feel like D&D3's age rules really don't work well with the rest of the system.

BESW

So when combat DID happen, I was a glass cannon with massive healing potential.

trogdor

05:48

sounds like you house ruled the game into making casters more powerful

and broke it extra because you could cast arcane and divine

BESW

Not my houserule; I was joining another game.

But yes, it was... silly... but they hadn't figured out just how silly it was.

trogdor

well yeah

just saying

doppelgreener

@BESW ... and then you arrived? :P

BESW

They much preferred martial characters, probably because of the bookkeeping of being a caster.

trogdor

DND 3.5 needed no buffs to casters

BESW

05:50

@JonathanHobbs Yes.

This is the same group that didn't add racial HD to effective levels.

trogdor

if anything the opposite

lol

doppelgreener

@BESW and then they went: VOT HAFF VE DOOOOOOOOOONE!?, accompanied by gloomy lighting and flashes of lightning.

trogdor

with similarly hilarious effects

yes

BESW

@JonathanHobbs Nope! Totally "Oh, cool, that's a pretty nice build, man."

trogdor

lol

doppelgreener

05:51

@BESW :D!

trogdor

wow

that's just sad honestly

Alex P

Argh it's 2 am and my wife is asleep so I can't bother her about our gaming until tomorrow.

trogdor

lol

wake her up, I am sure it won't end badly

Alex P

There's sort of a big "Where to next?" question that we are both trying to address in director-stance, collaboratively.

Which is the worst because it's a lot of outside-of-session figuring-things-out.

And we have a commitment not to play stuff until we have a clear thing to do, so our game doesn't sputter out.

doppelgreener

@trogdor I think it's great.

It's broken but it's fun and pretty cool and that's all they care about.

Which is exactly how it should be!

BESW

06:19

This is the group I had to retire two characters because they reduced the fun of everyone else.

doppelgreener

One of the posts on the RPG Bloggers feed just concisely mentioned everything I find absolutely horribly disturbingly wrong with D&D 3e's cosmos (and 3.5e's, and Pathfinder's):

> Xorns are strange-looking critters that I inexplicably have three minis for. They spend their time "swimming" through the Plane of Earth, eating metal and gems. They can elect to leave tunnels when they burrow, which are somehow used by other creatures as living places even though they are only Medium-sized. I like how the article describes the Plane of Earth as "mountainous", as it means that it may not just be an endless expanse of dirt.

Magician

@JonathanHobbs Would you care to expand on that?

doppelgreener

The earth plane has nothing but dirt. The air plane is just air. The water plane is just water. How can anything leave a tunnel in the earth plane? That requires there being air. All the planes thus trade hugely with each other, with air and earth probably being among the most sought-after commodities: one to have solid ground, the other to have space above or around it. But prior to this trade, the planes were just solid chunks of useless stuff.

At some point they had to begin trading, and prior to that point the earth plane was just solid earth all the way.

BESW

You might find the interplanar conceit of The Death Gate Cycle interesting, then.

doppelgreener

The fire plane was just fire and the air plane was a void but for the breeze.

Magician

06:24

@JonathanHobbs I don't think that's how they ever were. They're 95% their element, sure, but they still have other stuff. That said, I like 4e cosmology much better.

doppelgreener

@Magician Then I may be very mistaken if so. 4e's cosmology is wonderful though, I agree. It just throws the elements together as they should be: everyone needs air and ground, so they are just there.

I guess if the plane of air has like, 1% earth and a bit of water, that would explain how there is anything there that cares to stand on stuff.

Magician

@JonathanHobbs Yeah, a plane that is entirely one element is incredibly boring.

doppelgreener

@Magician It is so boring.

BESW

New idea: Elemental planes have Auras of Tedium. Make a Will save vs the doldrums.

doppelgreener

4e's elemental chaos is exciting, and a plane that was pretty much entirely solid earth was never interesting to begin with.

I was never enchanted by D&D 3e's cosmology and that was before I learned about 4e's. I read about it and then... wanted to stop reading about it.

Magician

06:31

@BESW Shadowfell has aura of malaise ;)

BESW

I have a theory about pre-4e cosmologies re: alignment and design.

doppelgreener

There are such exciting ways cosmologies can exist and it's like D&D figured out the most boring cosmology possible.

[/3e cosmology rant]

@BESW Do tell!

Metool

Bah, I'm having too much fun with a friend and a Magic card generator.

BESW

Okay, so the fundamental planes are based on elements and alignments, right?

G/L/E/C, earth/air/fire/water.

doppelgreener

Right, yeah. And the positive/negative energy thing is in there too somehow.

BESW

06:34

There are two fundamental implications here: one, that ideas are inherently generative, and two, that the building blocks of the universe are drawn from pure repositories thereof.

Thus shadow/positive/negative must logically exist.

But now we look at alignments: there's neutral, and chaotic good, and lawful evil, and so forth.

Extrapolating, you can mix elements as well: earth + fire = magma, etc.

And what about elements in other cosmologies, like the element of "wood"?

Demons and devils are distinct, so we need two planes for them to come from. Angels should have similar diverse origin planes.

You see? By dividing the planes into such very discrete units, the number of them was necessarily made infinite.

Magician

@BESW they do. Just as there are demons and devils and yugoloths, there are angels and... other angels. Brauri, I think, and something else.

BESW

Because now planes aren't about extremes, or about fundamentals: they're representing the graduated spectrum as discrete units.

And every time you invent a new plane, you must also invent its opposite.

...and its counterpoint.

Planes proliferate at an exponential rate. The existence of a plane for demons DEMANDS the creation of a plane for devils. These two planes both demand corresponding angelic planes.

Magician

@BESW There are something like 16 alignment planes, so the spectrum's already there, if discrete.

BESW

@Magician But it's insufficient. The spectrum must be expanded; it's basically Xeno's Paradox.

Magician

@BESW You're talking about the Great Wheel - yes, everything on it has an opposite

BESW

06:42

This is great for releasing more books, but it dilutes the nature of each individual plane until each one is so small that it has no interest.

Magician

And I don't recall what they suggested to do with things like elemental plane of wood, that don't fit into the Wheel... Probably keep them as demiplanes, and therefore without a counterpart.

BESW

(Small in the narrative, interesting, meaningful sense, not the physical size; in fact, they get BIGGER to compensate.)

trogdor

@JonathanHobbs eh, wtv floats your boat

I personally like my games to be a little more balanced than that

BESW

@Magician Yeah, but it's not just the Great Wheel.

It's the philosophy behind it.

The idea of counterbalanced planes influences the entire cosmology, beyond the mandated balance of the Wheel.

The Wheel itself encourages infinite spokes, though.

doppelgreener

@trogdor To me the concept of balance is kind of a distraction. You can have a fighter and a cleric in the same party, and so long as they both have fun and are okay with what they and others do, then it's perfect. Part of that requires the DM to provide challenges that make both feel useful (keeping most of the enemies on the ground, for instance).

BESW

06:51

@JonathanHobbs I think @trogdor finds it easier to have fun if he doesn't feel like the GM has to make extra effort for his character to be useful.

doppelgreener

@BESW Okay, I follow.

BESW

I mean, think about it.

If your character choice is the limiting factor on the options the party has available, and is making extra work for your friend the GM in order to make you feel useful...

doppelgreener

I suppose so! I don't consider that necessarily extra work for myself I guess.

BESW

@trogdor has seen it be a LOT of extra work.

You're lucky because you're in 4e--and early-level 4e, at that.

doppelgreener

Dang. :(

Unless I'm underestimating how troublesome being a fighter can be in later levels, I could still imagine, say, throwing the players off a cliff then having them fight a lesser demigod of fire on the way to the bottom (however far away that might be). Even if one's a fighter.

BESW

07:03

It's more about mechanics than that.

In our last 3.5 game, I had to design encounters for a party with these requirements:

- Low normal AC
- High touch defense
- High grapple or otherwise able to defend against high grapple
- Low Fort
- High Ref

- PCs must be able to engage in ground-level melee
- NPCs must be able to attack flying characters

doppelgreener

Oh wow.

BESW

If I wasn't able to make all those true in most battles, someone would mop the floor and make everyone else useless, or someone would be unable to participate at all, or someone would get shanked.

Troggy was playing a monk, and was the one most likely to be unable to participate effectively.

His damage wasn't bad, but he was the only one targeting AC instead of Touch.

And monk attack rolls are bad.

So if I dropped the defenses to where he could regularly hit something, everyone else laughed and steamrollered.

I had to come up with increasingly inventive ways for the others to still be challenged while I was making Troggy feel useful.

doppelgreener

Ouch, I see. :(

BESW

I've told you about Sham, the doppelganger who could be anything.

How would you design an encounter to make others feel useful without sidelining me entirely?

trogdor

mm

quite so

BESW

07:15

Or more basically: Gordian, the rogue who always succeeded on Hide checks.

I retired him because the only way he could be effective was to have everyone else sit around while the GM did one-on-one stealth encounters with me.

In 4e, we had the ranger who made everything prone/immobilized/slowed/couldn't teleport.

Any power or feature anyone else in the party had that related to NPC movement--taking advantage of it or punishing it--was rendered pointless.

doppelgreener

Ouch. Okay, this is what I did consider bad: where one character undermines others.

One that would make another PC wonder "why am I even here?"

BESW

Right.

And when one character is having a hard time contributing, the GM's efforts to make them useful often undermines the effectiveness of others.

doppelgreener

This is serious food for thought as my friends and I prepare for entering Fate and creating our own magic system.

That one player I thought wouldn't like it? The next night he told me he was already thinking what aspects he'd want his character to have.

(I pointed him to the download page for the Core and Accelerated manuals)

BESW

So a character being hypereffective or ineffective will undermine the other characters, even if it's just because the GM is spending more of his time and creative power compensating.

doppelgreener

Hm :(

BESW

07:23

This is a fundamental argument against "A good GM can compensate" for anything.

doppelgreener

One thing I was wondering about is whether it'd be fun to have an AOE specialist, and how they could work.

BESW

Oh, easy. There are two ways to do it.

doppelgreener

@BESW Something I agree on.

BESW

First and most obvious: a stunt that lets them divide their shifts of attack among multiple targets.

doppelgreener

@BESW Oh! I thought that was standard!

BESW

07:25

...maybe it is?

If it is, give them a stunt to enhance it.

doppelgreener

I don't know; I've only heard about it from you.

BESW

It's something that DFRPG wizards could do.

trogdor

yeah

DFRPG has it standard

but I dunno about the rest of the FATE system

BESW

I'll check.

I'm not seeing it.

Wait, here.

FC 205-207.

But basically it says "Sure, figure out how that works in your game."

So, for DFRPG-like sprays.

> Because Vera is an automatic, when I roll an attack I can divide the shifts among any number of targets in the same zone. Each target rolls defense against the number of shifts I assigned to him.

> Because I am a fearless pyrokinetic, I can choose for my fire attacks to target everyone in my zone--including myself and my friends. I must reduce the attack roll's shifts by 2 to do this, and every target rolls defense against my full attack roll as if I were targeting him individually.

trogdor

yeah, so in DFRPG, you could likely take, or make, a stunt that gave you a bonus to stuff like that

to mitigate the cost of splitting your roll against multiple people

BESW

07:32

There. I think that's basically how DFRPG does those two features.

doppelgreener

@BESW This is the second way?

BESW

Yes.

The first is more controlled, the second is more powerful.

trogdor

yeah,... but that kind of uncontrolled power gets out of hand fast

doppelgreener

Okay, that's useful. My concern was that AOEs are nice and allies can appreciate them, but an attack that targets just 2 or 3 people suddenly becomes... much less impressive.

So I was thinking an AOE caster would have to spend some of their turns creating advantages, others using up free invokes to pile on a +12 attack and divide that up among three people.

Unless we just go ahead and somehow just make them very powerful against multiple targets, which that second method would do.

BESW

Right, but at cost.

-2 shifts, and friendly fire.

doppelgreener

07:37

Yes. I think it may be a good idea to leave AOE attacks out until they know what they're dealing with.

And perhaps introduce them in relatively disposable style by giving some NPCs AOE stunts.

Not to introduce the idea of them to the players, but so we can all see how they might work out.

BESW

Don't forget that you can provide them with temporary extras which grant stunts.

"Here, have a bomb."

doppelgreener

o: Oh yeah.

user61230

Hmm. What kind of game is Fate?

BESW

@EmrakultheAeonsTorn ...in what sense?

Magician

@BESW One of the best things about 4e for me as GM was its cavalier attitude to monster building. "Here are the expected stats for this level, go nuts with abilities". Because following those requirements in 3.5 when you use character creation rules to fulfill them, each time? Gods no.

BESW

07:44

@Magician [shudder]

Yes, 4e's monster building was a bit daunting at first, but rather freeing.

user61230

From both a high-level mechanics and a functional gameplay usage perspective.

Magician

That's why my "epic" (level 17-ish) 3.5 campaign died: I've literally spent a day statting up an NPC wizard, only to have him die in the first round without going once.

BESW

@EmrakultheAeonsTorn Let me think about how to answer that usefully while I finish up this thing I'm doing.

If anyone else wants to talk about it, please do.

I'm just not sure how to answer it simply, without just talking about the game until you feel you have an answer.

doppelgreener

I'm not sure how to answer that either really. It's an RPG where you play characters and roll dice and engage in conflict and tell stories.

user61230

True. It's a pretty broad question.

doppelgreener

07:50

Which is pretty much just describing RPGs!

trogdor

yeah

there are many small differentiating details

BESW

High-level mechanics: instead of ability stats, a character is defined by a set of short, pithy phrases that describe something about his nature, ability, gear, or relationships. These are called "aspects," and can be used to justify actions and make his life easier or harder.

trogdor

I wouldn't know where to begin

user61230

Alright, bad question. I'll renege on this, and think again when I have more info and more sleep xD

user61230

Interesting...

BESW

07:51

Characters also have "skills," which are added to a roll of four Fudge dice in order to determine the result of actions they take.

Each character also has at least one "stunt," which either provides a bonus to a skill roll in a specific circumstance or in some way alters the rules for that character (like letting you block Shoot attacks with Fists, or automatically succeeding on one Lore check each session).

The only other primary mechanic (and Fate has no real subsystems at all except what stunts provide) is a game currency called "Fate points."

doppelgreener

Dice rolls in Fate are also on a tight bell curve. The highest roll is +4, the lowest is -4, and both are extremely uncommon. +0 is the most likely roll, with most rolls likely to be between +2 and -2. This makes the fact you have +3 in a particular skill very significant, compared to how swingy and random a d20 roll can be (until you start having modifiers of 30 points or so).

BESW

You gain Fate points when something complicates your life or makes things harder for you, and you spend them for advantages--it can be as simple as a bonus to a roll, or you can use Fate points to declare things to be true which will help your character.

Between the use of Fate points and some interesting applications of skills, players in Fate have a level of game-building agency which is unusual in most traditional RPGs; the GM is more like "first among equals" than the absolute creator of the game world and plot.

user61230

Interesting.

BESW

Fate is designed to tell collaborative stories about people who are dramatic, competent, and proactive. It aims for narrative authenticity rather than realism, and assumes that the group wants to work together to tell interesting stories.

user61230

Hmm. It sounds like something I'd have to play once or twice to get the feel of.

user61230

07:57

Seems straightforward, though

BESW

It is setting-agnostic, and the Fate Core manual has indepth discussions about how to represent worlds and the things in them at a level appropriate to the story you're trying to tell.

Fate has been used as a basal engine for other games, probably most notably the Dresden Files RPG.

The Fate Core manual is available here for Pay-What-You-Like, including free.

There's a casual Fate Accelerated game room here:

Fate chat and game room

Good questions raised here should hit the main site too! Fudge...

user61230

Huh. Thank you so much!

BESW

Its conversation tab has the Actual Play of the games we've run there.

user61230

The system is intriguing. I'm definitely looking into this!

BESW

We'd be happy to talk to you about it.

Although the engine has been around for about a decade, Fate Core is very recent and we're pretty excited.

The game room was put together for us to learn more about the system.

user61230

08:05

Sweet! I'm going to learn the system first.

BESW

That seems reasonable.

user61230

Sorry again for such a broad question, but thank you all for such a fantastic answer!

BESW

No problem. It just kinda threw me for a loop.

BESW

08:16

Gotta go make dinner.

ttfn

doppelgreener

08:41

@EmrakultheAeonsTorn If you're using Firefox or Google Chrome, we have a user script that turns the d6 rolls into Fudge dice rolls.

If you're on Google Chrome, I think you'll be able to install it right away. If you're on Firefox like me, you'll need to install the Greasemonkey extension first.

That will apply to the Fate game room and its transcripts - and thus the conversations in there.

@waxeagle This is one of the most wonderful things I have ever read.

doppelgreener

10:01

@StuperUser I've personally noticed that sometimes, unless another system is specified, people will often respond to a question assuming the asker is playing D&D.

There are a dozen other very popular RPGs that have nothing at all to do with D&D, so I don't tend to like that kind of answer. :(

Like in this answer I made: I got comments from people talking about how Bards work in D&D, when the question never specified any system at all.

It's like people default to thinking it's the One And Only System sometimes.

(I did so myself from time to time, until recently, since I've been spending so much time thinking about Fate and almost none about D&D)

trogdor

it's the only one I knew anything about for a while

Zachiel

@Magician Usual D&D 3.5 stuff. That's why I almost never restat NPCs from modules.

BESW

10:20

Back.

doppelgreener

@BESW Hi!

BESW

So, in order to cast fireball or throw three daggers at once, a character needs an aspect that justifies being able to do it, and a stunt that lets them change the attack rules in such a way.

doppelgreener

Like being a Mage of the Fog Tower?

BESW

Right, that'd nicely allow, say, chain lightning.

The mechanics I suggest are "divide the shifts among the targets and have them defend against the shifts that are allotted to them," and "-2 shifts to have your full attack target everyone in the zone."

Zachiel

@JonathanHobbs Often those questions have strong hints about which game is being played. A game with a bard, a sorcerer, a knight and a ranger? Wasn't it for the knight, which exists in D&D but is not core, I'd say D&D too. How many RPGs has bards as a trope?

BESW

10:25

@Zachiel That's not the issue.

It's not a case of "the question doesn't say which system the person is using."

It's a case of "the user is asking for non-system-specific answers, and is getting D&D answers."

doppelgreener

^ That, pretty much!

BESW

(Not in the StuperUser case; he's edited that so it's very clear he's just giving it as a common example.)

Zachiel

@BESW In such cases I'd ask the querent what system he's using and why he thinks non-system-specific answers are better for him.

BESW

@Zachiel And that would be a much better response than giving him a D&D-assumptive answer.

Zachiel

@BESW I had that in mind

BESW

10:27

Which is what Hobbs is talking about as a trend he's seen.

Zachiel

Well, I am a much better answerer, ain't it? U_u (XD)

j/k

However

StuperUser

@JonathanHobbs Indeed, when I was writing it I did feel like it was "every problem looks like a nail and D&D is my hammer". Without the question giving reference to particular system, I assumed that D&D as an example is going to be safe enough for anyone involved/switched on enough to homebrew a setting, knows what Ebberon is, will be able to make the relevant changes implicitly.

also, morning all!

BESW

Hi!

Zachiel

Yeah, Eberron was kinda revealing of his gaming history, I tought that as well

@BESW I told you I had to tell you something about that old discussion you made with someone in my absence. I really liked the polo in a swimsuit thing XD Is got right to the target (not hitting it for 100 points but pretty close)

doppelgreener

@Zachiel Me too. It certainly suggests a decent likelihood they're playing D&D, but there's nothing at all stopping them from playing Eberron in Burning wheel, and at that point a D&D answer is of very limited use. However, the question itself certainly has issues. My own answer could only respond in vague terms and ask a lot of questions.

@StuperUser If your answer pointed out lamp oil was quite flammable, commonly held and carried, and was in fact used as an explosive weapon in D&D, that would almost entirely remove any assumption of anything D&D-related other than the Alchemist's Fire which probably but not necessarily exists in his setting - or at least exists in Eberron, and he may choose to say it exists in his or doesn't.

In fact I suspect it would remove everything that makes an assumption of D&D.

Zachiel

10:33

@BESW I wanted to know how did you think epic level quest works in there... I guess you got it quite wrong but I'm not sure about it

StuperUser

0

Q: Is using D&D as an example when no system is specified acceptable?

Based on this implicitly system agnostic question, I answered using D&D as an example since it's a fairly vanilla, often gateway system to RPGs. Is the assumption that an answer using D&D variants as an example for implicitly or explicitly system agnostic question good practice?

discussion answers

BESW

Just a bit of contrariness: D&D is not "vanilla" by any meaning of the word I know.

It's got a very aggressively murder-hobo ethos, among other things, and the only reason it seems generic is that so many other RPGs have taken its model as their own.

2

@Zachiel I'm not sure what you're asking.

Zachiel

10:47

@BESW you told whoever it was that the fact that in my game a quest is needed to get an intelligent item or lots of money and epic levels was bad... I got the impression you believe that if you don't manage to get such a quest you're screwed but... everybody who reaches lvl 20 is -given- such a tailored quest

BESW

Well, aside from the fact that you've made it clear not all quests were created equal in that game, the issue isn't whether or not you get one.

StuperUser

@BESW updated to "very common, often gateway system to RPGs"

BESW

I just have a hard time reconciling the idea of adding level gateways like that, especially in the context of the rest of that game's attitudes and quirks.

It's more an example of "not actually D&D despite thinking it is."

Zachiel

Only this time it's actually an improvemeent for you're granted a tailored quest that makes you cool :)

BESW

That's not how you explained it before.

You made it sound like you needed to pay gold to go above level 20.

(I'm basing this on the GDoc of rules & reqs you linked some time ago.)

wax eagle

10:59

Deep in our geek hearts we know that *all* RPG dice are shameful. http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/04/the_10_most_shameful_rpg_dice.php

Tweeted by codinghorror on July 24, 2013 at 5:07 AM

BESW

Hrm.

I think that calling non-cubical polyhedral dice "RPG dice" is pretty narrow-minded.

I mean, alignment dice--yeah, that's D&D dice. Still not RPG dice, though.

But d20s are older than Christiandom.

The Oracle

11:17

3

Q: Is using D&D as an example when no system is specified acceptable?

Based on this implicitly system agnostic question, I answered using D&D as an example since it's a very common, often gateway system to RPGs. Is the assumption that an answer using D&D variants as an example for implicitly or explicitly system agnostic question good practice?

discussion answers

doppelgreener

12:22

@AlexP Are you there?

Alex P

@JonathanHobbs Yes.

What's up?

doppelgreener

I'm thinking of asking a question on B&CG and would like to know if it would be constructive and on topic.

Alex P

@JonathanHobbs Sure thing. Also, we might as well talk about it here because their chat died. :o

doppelgreener

It's a MtG question. Basically: "When would I want to have Illusion cards in my deck?"

BESW

No, do it there.

Alex P

12:24

@BESW How do we revive a dead chat room?

BESW

Not because it's wrong to do it here, but because it's better for that site to have the life.

...the main chat got frozen?

Alex P

Yes.

BESW

@waxeagle [poke]

doppelgreener

I guess we could/should create it.

Alex P

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/49/board-and-card-games

wax eagle

12:25

@BESW just back, what's up?

doppelgreener

Yeah, we should do it over there. I'll create a room.

BESW

@waxeagle Please unfreeze the room linked above.

wax eagle

@BESW yeah I linked that before I read it (Jeff doesn't regularly link RPG related stuff)..and I only agreed with 1...maybe 2 and you're right that calling them "RPG dice" is really...narrowminded

Alex P

@JonathanHobbs Short answer: I think that's a fine question if you make sure to define Illusions to mean the new-fangled "sacrifice if targeted" mechanic (which is what I assume you mean).

doppelgreener

Magic: the Gathering discussion

MtG! Go! Discuss!

wax eagle

12:26

@BESW your wish is my command!

(at least in this instance)

BESW

@JonathanHobbs You now have a choice of rooms.

doppelgreener

@BESW Ta. :)

wax eagle

there's a protection designed to keep main rooms from thawing, but it will only protect the last open room for a site, so if if a site has an active side room it will let the main room die

Alex P

@waxeagle In other words, Bridge killed Main Chat. Gothca.

wax eagle

@AlexP yep

blame the foursomes

BESW

12:53

@JonathanHobbs Yes, my young apprentice. Your training is coming along well.

doppelgreener

@BESW What, why? xD

BESW

Hi, and welcome to the site! I've edited your email address out of your question - answers on this site take place in public and not private, and for good reason. Of course, once you have enough rep, you can come join us in chat to discuss anything RPG-related that wouldn't fit in Q&A. Take a look at the about page to get a feel for how this system works; and help if that doesn't answer all your questions. — Jonathan Hobbs 6 mins ago

doppelgreener

8)

I figured whilst I was at it I should post something helpful like you normally post. xD

BESW

It helps take the sting out of "No, you're doing it wrong!"

doppelgreener

I guess it does!

BESW

12:57

It provides places to further understanding, assumes that the OP is going to be staying around and getting rep by inviting them to chat, and of course it's a welcome to the site.

Fate chat and game room

Magic: the Gathering discussion

Transcript for