Root Access

Oliver Salzburg

16:02

@allquixotic the video I'm watching right now gave me an idea. Chrome can save HAR files from the developer tools

Maybe you can replay those directly with that http-replay tool

plus.google.com/u/0/111395306401981598462/posts/gZTmgnZPnUR

Good stuff

Also this: ericduran.github.com/chromeHAR

I'm really liking this new web where everyone puts everything on GitHub :D

barlop

do most people nowadays have 64bit processors?

and if I have this processor, ark.intel.com/products/43517/… do I need a 64-bit version of Windows?

Oliver Salzburg

@barlop Tough to judge without proper stats, but, me personally, I'm always somewhat confused when seeing a 32bit system :P

tombull89

@OliverSalzburg All our work desktops and laptops have 4GB ram and 32-bit windows grumpyface

Oliver Salzburg

@tombull89 Yeah, I'm probably very biased in that regard

@barlop You can install 32bit Windows on a 64bit CPU just fine

barlop

would you recommend I install 64-bit?

tombull89

16:13

If you've got a 64-bit capable CPU doesn't mean you have to install a 64 bit OS. If you've got a 64 bit install with 4GB you'll be fine but bear in mind 64 bit Windows 7 has a slighty larger RAM overhead than that of 32.

Oliver Salzburg

31

Q: Should I install 64-bit versions of operating systems?

With the release of Windows 7 coming up, 64-bit operating systems have caught my attention. What are the main advantages and disadvantages of installing 64-bit Windows 7? What type of compatibility issues will I face and would i have to install 64-bit software, or will all the applications I hav...

8

Q: Windows 7: Should I Install 64-bit or 32-bit Version? (x64 vs x86)

Deciding which Windows 7 version to install can be a difficult decision and can really limit what you can do with your system. Do you have any practical hints which could help decide which version to install? With the gaining popularity of 64-bit chipsets/processors, many users now have the abi...

windows-7 64-bit operating-systems

There's a couple more, but those should get you started :D

allquixotic

16:26

@OliverSalzburg me too :D

barlop

would a 32-bit OS be fine with 4GB too?

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic Already following :)

allquixotic

hehehe

Oliver Salzburg

plus.google.com/u/0/114552443805676710515/posts/H2pJByxR5Ky

Damn... extending Developer Tools with own stuff

That dude can explain really well

barlop

I can't find the exact ram limit. 3 point what? GB

or is it a 4GB limit with 32-bit?

allquixotic

16:29

@barlop after a certain amount of RAM, PAE mode kicks in, which adds a layer of PTEs and slows down performance

Oliver Salzburg

12

Q: Is there way to enable 4 GB RAM in 32-bit Windows OS?

I upgraded my PC to 4 GB RAM and I get only 3 GB. Windows 7 32-Bit consider that I've 4 GB RAM but didn't use more than 3 GB. Someone told me that MS Windows 32-bit doesn't support RAM larger than 3 GB. So please is there any way to make my OS "Windows 7 32-Bit" support more than 3 GB RAM ? *`...

windows-7 memory 32-bit

allquixotic

the exact amount depends on the user/kernel split

bbl

Oliver Salzburg

Just in case...

0

Q: Is there a technical reason why 32-bit windows is limited to 4Gb of RAM?

Possible Duplicate: Why does Windows only show about 3.5GB of my 4GB+ of RAM? can a 32-bit OS machine use up all 8GB RAM + 20GB page file? As you can see in this table, all versions of x86 Win 7 max out at 4Gb. Is there a technical reason for this or is this just a marketing strateg...

windows-7 memory 64-bit

github.com/xajler/chrome-devtools-dark-theme

I'm speechless :D

allquixotic

@OliverSalzburg Are you Batman? Is there a reason why you have to darktheme all the things?

<<Just curious

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic This came up accidentally :D

allquixotic

16:37

Explain :D

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic In that video of the Google I'm watching

He said he dark themed his dev tools, so naturally I had to investigate further :D

Doesn't work for me though :\

allquixotic

@OliverSalzburg Oh... I was asking you to explain the root cause for why you want to darktheme all the things :D

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic Oh. I just always liked light-on-dark themes in general

And flat look :P

:D

That is an application I wrote in 2000

Manishearth

@OliverSalzburg Nor for me :(

(Chromium on Ubuntu)

allquixotic

wow :)

you wrote Dr Mp3? I think I used that a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away

Oliver Salzburg

16:51

@Manishearth I can paste any theme I want in the Custom.css, restart Chrome, no change :\

@allquixotic Well, I wrote that Dr MP3

Manishearth

@Oliver package it into an extension

Oliver Salzburg

It's one of the first programs I ever wrote

Visual Basic 6 all the way... O__o

allquixotic

Put Settings Window Back

I need to use that in an app of my own

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic IIRC that would simply move the settings window onto the screen

Which was needed (in my mind) because all Dr MP3 windows docked onto each other

And that way you could move docked windows off screen

allquixotic

hehe :D

Oliver Salzburg

16:55

Something along those lines

allquixotic

cute

the thing I'm most proud of so far, aside from rbpitch is my design of this :D

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic Sweet. What did you use?

And, OMG, I just found extremely old fragments of my web presence

allquixotic

@OliverSalzburg for what? the drawing?

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic Yeah, the drawing

allquixotic

don't hurt me ducks

V i s i o

Oliver Salzburg

16:59

@allquixotic That element in the top left looked very Visioy

allquixotic

I actually ended up implementing that thing

it works

basically I use pulseaudio to do software mixing of mumble clients and mpd music output so that I can have other DJs and guests on my music show

and for my own microphone input I just join the mumble chat on my computer

I replaced the "Gstreamer Pipeline Script" with tribblify, on my github

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic You're running a stream or something?

allquixotic

used to

had the music on my dedicated server, and a mumble server, and routed mumble and mpd through pulseaudio to mix them together then use a gstreamer script on the other end to pipe the mixed samples to the icecast server

control the playlist with Ario or RelaXX

host guests on my show by inviting them to join my mumble voice chatroom

Oliver Salzburg

I hardly know all the components involved but it sounds/looks like a pretty sweet setup

tiyukquellmalz.org is the Hetzner box, I assume?

allquixotic

even had it so the mumble client would limit the volume of the music while people talk

yeah it is

i still haven't replaced it with a more modern server, it's an EQ10, i need to update it to the more recent generation

if you don't understand the diagram, i can explain it in Tamarian (Star Trek race who spoke only in metaphor; the Children of Tama)

Darmok on the ocean. Jhalad on the ocean. Darmok and Jhalad at Tanagra. The mixer of Tanagra. Darmok and Jhalad on the ocean.

Oliver Salzburg

17:09

@allquixotic Thanks. I'm fine :D

I wish I could open-source my "best" projects. But our clients would most likely be very pissed :P

allquixotic

a job offer that wouldn't let me open source my best projects would have to be pretty daggone generous in the $$$$ category if they wanted me to accept not open sourcing everything

or, you know, just boring line of business software that isn't generally useful anyway

Oliver Salzburg

Well we write software for other clients. Demanding that I could open source that software wouldn't get me very far :(

allquixotic

i don't write software at all

ha ha

people who know me well are like, why are you here and why do i make more than you instead of you making 3 times more than me

Luke

@sidran32 superuser.com/questions/506176/vpn-not-working-on-wireless

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic lol

@allquixotic I feel like it's a very valuable thing when people ask you for advice and believe/follow your advice because they trust you. That can be even more powerful than a big paycheck

allquixotic

17:21

@OliverSalzburg yeah... I have a bit of a reality distortion field, and have a way to make people think i'm waaaaaaay more knowledgable than ia m

schneierfacts.com (unrelated)

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic :D

@allquixotic I read through all of those a few years ago

allquixotic

17:33

dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet/samples.html

@____________@

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic I still prefer whitespace :P

Malbolge

Malbolge is a public domain esoteric programming language invented by Ben Olmstead in 1998, named after the eighth circle of hell in Dante's Inferno, the Malebolge. The peculiarity of Malbolge is that it was specifically designed to be impossible to write useful programs in. However, weaknesses in this design have been found that make it possible (though still very difficult) to write Malbolge programs in an organized fashion. Programming in Malbolge Malbolge was so difficult to understand when it arrived that it took two years for the first Malbolge program to appear. The program wa...

This goes with that article: 99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-malbolge-995.html

Hennes

18:04

Whores for rep with an answer which should have been 'open your eyes' or 'read the fine manual'

But I guess that we still need answers which come down to 'file, open, browse, browse to file, click OK'

Sathya

does anyone know how much space the a Win 8 refresh require? Esp one where you've changed the baseline using recimg?

Oliver Salzburg

New Chrome URLs for me O__O chrome://predictors/ chrome://net-internals/ chrome://histograms/ chrome://dns/

I just love Chrome...

allquixotic

@OliverSalzburg next it'll have built-in email, and an entire OS implemented in Chrome... oh wait, ChromeOS

Hennes

No, that is Emacs

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic Those two videos really showcased a few new aspects I wasn't aware of. Nice

I should definitely try out the remote debugging finally

KronoS

18:24

0

A: How do I animate only one word in a row?

I've just found a way to do this: Type the words so that they are in different paragraphs - if you only want to animate the one word then you'll need three paragraphs with the one word isolated from the rest Line up the words, using spaces, as if they were on a single line eg Line up the words...

Interesting.. I can't seem to format the stuff correctly

sidran32

18:50

@Luke I posted an "answer" but it's really more of an explanation of the issue. Perhaps someone else can comment/edit it to provide a fix.

A coworker just posted this to me in Skype...

If your answer to 'What's your favourite 12 year-old Port?' is 'USB 2.0', you need to get out more.

2

Zach

19:23

Please

I have to be doing something wrong

Excel can't be this obscene

allquixotic

@Zach wasn't I helping you with another big WTF moment in Excel on Mac?

didn't you learn your lesson?!!?!! Excel on Mac is insane!

@Zach actually, looking at that....

what is that character sequence, 0x0A 0xC2?! 0xC2 is ASCII character #194, Â

0x0A is a newline

per your hex editor, Excel is reading the CSV literally: a c character, then a new line, then an Â character, then a ® character

is your CSV file Â-delimited?

Hennes

UTF-8-16-21-32 ?

allquixotic

assuming ASCII

the real wtf is the 0xC2 character... without it, it'd be fine

Hennes

Just asking before the (R) sign in unicode would be (U+00AE). That AE looks in place. The rest is confuzling me

Windows UTF-8 would be 0xC2 0xAE

Zach

@allquixotic Indeed you were haha

That was wonderful

It's not just on macs though I don't think

Let me check

allquixotic

19:41

@Hennes why the 0xC2?

looks like Calc is interpreting 0xC2 0xAE as UTF-8, and Excel is interpreting it as ASCII

doesn't it ask the character set when you import?

Hennes

Not sure. I know UTF is usually 16 bit, but windows 'embraced' it as 8 bit-ish, andometimes with or without BOM

So I googled and found this

fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/ae/index.htm

I am currenlty trying to figure out of the C is anything. or if that is a BOM. And if it is a Byte Order, then in which sequence

But, rendered as ASCII a small c would be char 99 (0x63)

allquixotic

@Hennes it's not a BOM

fileformat.info/info/unicode/utf8.htm

Detail

For any character equal to or below 127 (hex 0x7F), the UTF-8 representation is one byte. It is just the lowest 7 bits of the full unicode value. This is also the same as the ASCII value.

For characters equal to or below 2047 (hex 0x07FF), the UTF-8 representation is spread across two bytes. The first byte will have the two high bits set and the third bit clear (i.e. 0xC2 to 0xDF). The second byte will have the top bit set and the second bit clear (i.e. 0x80 to 0xBF).

Hennes

How did you expand that?

allquixotic

expand what

i pasted some text...

Hennes

Ah.

allquixotic

19:46

The value of each individual byte indicates its UTF-8 function, as follows:

00 to 7F hex (0 to 127): first and only byte of a sequence.
80 to BF hex (128 to 191): continuing byte in a multi-byte sequence.
C2 to DF hex (194 to 223): first byte of a two-byte sequence.
E0 to EF hex (224 to 239): first byte of a three-byte sequence.

so basically if you are trying to input an ASCII character in UTF-8 and the value is 128 or higher, you have to prepend it with C2 ~ DF

194 > 128, so

Hennes

so. 1 byte c, then 0A which is in 80-BF, then the C2 AE

allquixotic

no, 0x0a is a newline character

Hennes

Ah, grok

allquixotic

it's not a multibyte sequence because it's just one character

Hennes

a (newline) (R) Which matches 3 out of 4 screens

But not in excel

allquixotic

19:49

well yeah... as I said, if you interpret the CSV bytestream in ASCII, you get c newline Â ®

Hennes

Right. Now I am up to speed, but why isn't excel parsing that?

allquixotic

the newline separates the elements in the CSV, the c is the first element, and Â® is the second element

if Excel knew that the file were in UTF-8 then it'd parse the 0xC2 0xAE sequence as a single UTF-8 character, ®

it's just reading it in with the wrong encoding, and absolutely nothing about the file itself tells you what encoding is right

hell it could be 7-bit EBCDIC and the delimiter could be the » character for all we know

Hennes

Exel is a MS product. MS and unicode have their own way. (I am trying very hard not to say MS has embraced and extended unicode since that is too close to embrace, extend, exterminate)

allquixotic

encoding detection (without having it TOLD to you a priori by some metadata) is an imprecise field by definition

lots of things, try to do encoding detection, but it's not possible to build an accurate statistical model to detect the encoding without about a kilobyte of text

look at the Apache Portable Runtime, it has routines for encoding detection

but it's very inaccurate for small files like this

Hennes

What happens if you add 0xEF,0xBB,0xBF to beginning of the file an then open it in excel. (no excel here to test that with, just open office)

allquixotic

19:53

the real limitation is that, while more robust file formats like ZIP, XLS, XLSX, etc. all specify a priori a rigid file format that then goes on to define the encoding of any text in the file, plain CSV files or other text files don't actually have any standard for what encoding they have to be in

i'm betting that if he removed 0xC2 then excel would parse it correctly, and so would openoffice

Zach

@allquixotic you're right

allquixotic

the fix is to somehow "force" Excel to interpret the file as UTF-8, if you want to leave that 0xC2 in because they're in your source data or something

CSV import asks you like 10 questions, i could swear one of them is, what encoding is this in

Zach

output:
ï»¿c
Â®

allquixotic

if you're just hitting "Finish", you get whatever Excel decides

Hennes

Scary. I now recognise that ï»¿c

allquixotic

20:45

tech.slashdot.org/story/12/11/14/2220221/the-empire-in-decline :-(

Suddenly I love Microsoft again... ONLY for the Surface Pro, but still, I don't want them to decline now :( Burn in heck, evil OS and DRM and secure boot. Lurve that Surface though, grud darnit

Tom Wijsman

20:59

Well, they focused their shift from "what they were good at" to "let's have some things for everyone" so they can only hope their market sales are good on "some things for everyone".

Hennes

Well, windows 7 was good. So we already knew 8 would be bad.

Tom Wijsman

@Hennes: And 9 will be bad too, because it's 6 upside down (Vista); so, we have to wait for Windows X.

Hennes

I wonder if X is different enough from 10 so that they would use it.

After all, keeping logic in your product naming never lasts

allquixotic

Adobe went from Acrobat 6, 7, 8, 9, ... X

so, yep

Matthew Wong

hey is anyone here knowledgable in php?

KronoS

21:14

@MatthewWong I know enough to stay away from it

Matthew Wong

oh why did i say php. i meant to say javascript

Tom Wijsman

@MatthewWong: Feel free to share your problem.

allquixotic

I don't know or like PHP, but JavaScript is fun... provide your problem description

Matthew Wong

this is probably too localized hence why im not posting in SO (and for the fact that im banned from asking questions :P)

but right now im using a javascript library called PolyMaps

to generate a map

and right now i just want to make circles pulsate whenever json is passed through an ajax call. the problem here is that when multiple data is passed only one circle pulsates and the other circle just sits there when it should disappear after pulsating

demo: onx.im/maps2/examples/cloudmade

allquixotic

@MatthewWong why are you banned from asking questions?!

Matthew Wong

21:27

because the questions i asked were low quality :P

allquixotic

they must ban people for looking at a moderator the wrong way over there... very unforgiving

that's stupid... you're smarter now, right? you know more now, right? you have a lot of rep on other sites and everything

there's a spectrum between being too permissive and being too restrictive... Atwood (I think) blogged about this before and it's very true

Matthew Wong

well now im starter. i just have to prove it

*smarter

allquixotic

sounds like permanently banning someone even long after they've gained respect in the community is FAR too restrictive, and the sad part is the community doesn't even seem to be aware of just how restrictive they are

all in the name of progress and maintaining a high SNR, right?

Matthew Wong

SNR?

allquixotic

signal to noise ratio

the argument has traditionally gone that textbooks have too strict an SNR because everything within them is pure "signal" (good information), but the breadth and freshness of that information is easily outclassed by interactive media like forums, chat, wikipedia, etc

so you can sacrifice a slightly lower SNR for much more volume of information and are thus more likely to find what you're looking for - on sites like wikipedia, online encyclopedias that are updated frequently, etc

then you can sacrifice even more SNR if you use something like SO, where questions and answers aren't verified before they're posted, and you're relying on the goodwill of others to trust their information

at the lowest end of the spectrum is obviously random forums, chat or IM, because it isn't even really moderated or policed to ensure that things are on topic and at least minimally addressing the question

so the good old boys think that SO is a good compromise between SNR and volume of information

but we can obsess over SNR to the point that we're no better than a textbook because the volume of information is lost due to over-strict policies and rules, banning people for looking at you the wrong way, whatever

Matthew Wong

21:38

back then i was just beginning to learn about js and php but still i will probably need access just in case anyways.

so @allquixotic did you look at the js file on my site?

Tom Wijsman

@MatthewWong Javascript is synchroneous as far as I know, you'd have to pulsate them bit by bit one by one. Unless I'm imagining too much about your code. :D

Matthew Wong

@TomWijsman not possible to pulsate them at once? another problem is that second circle just sits there when it should be hidden after pulsating (which it doesn't do as well).

allquixotic

39

Q: JavaScript and Threads

Is there some way to do multi-threading in JavaScript?

javascript multithreading

pulsating them "at once" is a separate concept from concurrency though

technically all you need to do is finish the necessary rendering to perform the pulsation by the frame rendering deadline, determined by the browser's FPS

you basically just need to work with javascript's event model, rather than worrying about worker threads

Hennes

man, sometimes I love random tweets.

It is a common mistake. Fahrenheit is the name of the creator. The temperature scale is "Fahrenheit's monster."

allquixotic

@Hennes yeah, but with Fahrenheit, we get to specify things like boiling temperature at a blistering 212 degrees, whereas it's only a boring 100 in Celsius ;-)

Hennes

21:50

We shold just dump both and move to Kelvin

Matthew Wong

@allquixotic i understood none of that lol

allquixotic

in fact, I'd like to invent my own temperature system that uses Fahrenheit as the exponent in the equation 2^x

2^212 = 6.5820182292848241686198767302294e+63

now THAT's boiling!

brings a whole new meaning to freezing temperature (32 F) though... 32-bit systems running 2^32 address size should be right at home at 2^32 degrees quixigrade ;-)

hmmmm coincidence? 32

4294967296 degrees quixigrade .. the ideal operating temperature for computers addressing 4294967295 bytes of memory

Hennes

22:06

It does not matter how many degrees quixigrade it is. Cthulhu shall rise from the sunken city of R'yLeh and simply devour your 32 bits.

allquixotic

I once defined a math system called "ansal" which held that the answer to life, the universe and everything -- that is, 42 -- was the result of every computation, and any reference to any quantity other than 42 was essentially just a syntactical synonym for 42

so, 1 + 2 = 42; 42 ^ 2 = 42; 42 ^ 42 = 42; 0 / 0 = 42; etc.

Hennes

But then 42-42 equals 42. But 42/42 is also 42, so translated 0 is 1

allquixotic

"ansal" was a sort of play on the word "answer" combined with something like the -al suffix of "decimal", etc

ah-ah! not so fast! there is no real 0 and 1 -- they're both 42 :P of course 42 is 42!

Hennes

But 42 is also not equal to 42, so Falsum.

allquixotic

in fact, 17000 == -1 in ansal

because 17000 is the math equivalent of a hard symbolic link to 42

so is -1

also, 42-42 = 42 works out because you could say in your head that 42-42=0, which is trivially true because 0 is 42

I know you could say "reductio ad absurdum" if you could show that 42==42 and 42!=42 within ansal, but I haven't decided if boolean logic has to be altered in any way to accommodate the ansal universe; if we represented true and false as 0 and 1, then boolean logic collapses into a single-valued system, where everything is the same value, since 0 and 1 are the same -- 42

"0" is just another way to write "42" in the syntax of ansal

Matthew Wong

22:26

ughhh still stumped...

Tom Wijsman

23:24

@MatthewWong CSS animations? Dunno...

Hennes

23:35

Sniggers

0

Q: large monitor shakes when I type

I recently bought a new HDMI 23" monitor from Asus. The only problem with it: whenever I type the movement of my hands on the keyboard causes a slight audible shake in the monitor stand. I don't have a slide out keyboard shelf for this desk, so the keyboard and monitor stand are on the same plane...

monitor

I guess his table is hardware, but ....

Oliver Salzburg

@Hennes I answered it! :D

Tom Wijsman

http://www.news24.com/Technology/News/Microsoft-sued-over-Surface-storage-20121115

Wonder how far he'll get it.

Hennes

Did you suggest a laptop and RDP? Then his monitor would not shake.

Oliver Salzburg

@TomWijsman I hope they offer him to delete the contents of the surface to give him the space

Tom Wijsman

@OliverSalzburg: Not necessarily this one, but I actually want to see a big company needing to do something absurd because of a sue like this. :D

Journeyman Geek

23:42

the us is too suehappy

you don't like it, bloody vote with your dollars

Oliver Salzburg

Well, he's a lawyer

He's probably thinking "If I win this, they'll be all over my a$$"

allquixotic

IMPORTANT for Linux Desktop users, enthusiasts, developers, and enterprise customers: Please take the 2012 GNOME User Survey. Upstream GNOME developers read and carefully consider every response. Thanks. Link

Tom Wijsman

> Upstream GNOME developers read and carefully consider every response.

That'd be new.

> How are you answering this survey?

What... o_O

allquixotic

Hey, it's a fair question -- accessibility issues, etc

Tom Wijsman

@allquixotic: Well, it's an accessibility issue on its own if I need to figure out how to tell it I'm using a laptop with keyboard and mouse to fill it in. :P

allquixotic

23:51

obviously, not every gnome maintainer is going to read the survey responses, but I know personally at least a few maintainers who took a look at it and made some comments last year

Tom Wijsman

If you could change three things in GNOME, what would they be?
- Listen to users
- Reduce dependencies
- Developer attitude

@allquixotic: I see you've got flagged there, lol.

> What features of GNOME do you rely on, and would not like them to go away?

Small text box on that question, what the...

allquixotic

@TomWijsman I think Michael (of Phoronix, who designed the survey UI) is expecting you to write "nothing, take all the features away" :D

@TomWijsman I don't see dependencies as a problem, as long as they aren't pulling in all of KDE or something crazy like that. The thing is, if they reduce dependencies, then you either lose that functionality entirely, or the gnome project has to re-implement whatever that dependency did on their own, which means they can rehash all the bugs that have been fixed in the dependency as it was in development.

Tom Wijsman

@allquixotic I did

If there's something better (faster, less memory usage, efficient, ...), feel free to replace! But don't take away any features... :(

allquixotic

I picked: More configuration options, Add shutdown / restart / suspend options, and Listen to users

Tom Wijsman

@allquixotic Let's just say they shouldn't start to depend on systemd, that's a pretty wrong move.

allquixotic

23:55

I'm pretty sure their systemd dependency is optional, not a hard dependency -- like most dependencies in gnome, in fact

optional dependencies basically "compile down to nothing" if you disable the flags

more code, sure, but at runtime... nothing

Tom Wijsman

@allquixotic More confugiration options, oh god no, there are already so many of them that you can't find the right one (Look into gconf editor). Shutdown, restart and suspend options are present in latest versions.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: the systemd dependancy would be a pain if you run an older style distro, or ubuntu

allquixotic

you can disable samba client support in nautilus, for instance

Journeyman Geek

/me is annoyed he needs to learn that as well

Tom Wijsman

@allquixotic I can disable almost whatever in whatever, Gentoo USE flags. :D

allquixotic

23:56

@TomWijsman there are lots of configuration settings in gconf or gsettings that aren't exposed in the UI in any way; that's the problem

I don't care if they're in gconf/gsettings -- if they aren't tweakable by the user then they aren't configuration settings, they're just programmatic data

Tom Wijsman

As for optional, well, depends on how their discussions continue. Really hoping them to allow for vendor decisions to be taken.

allquixotic

gconf is not a user interface

Tom Wijsman

True, but a lot of what is configurable is only available there.

allquixotic

they've taken away a lot of user-visible options that i found useful in gnome2

Tom Wijsman

About anything you can come up with to be configurable probably has a configuration setting in gconf already and tons of articles on the internet telling you how to change it.

For instance, gdm's background, gdm's fade color, ...

allquixotic

23:58

@JourneymanGeek wouldn't mind if ubuntu got rid of upstart and went to systemd, though... I mean, systemd is the paragon of self-contained, efficient, small, fast, low-dependency, optimal software, so I laugh when people go "ewwww systemd why would I want that?"

basically every other init system but systemd is a bunch of hacky shell scripts thrown on top of one another in an arbitrary way

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: I'm familiar with upstart by now

allquixotic

systemd is the opposite

it has virtually no shell scripts

Tom Wijsman

@allquixotic My OpenRC runs around systemd. :P

Journeyman Geek

I'm more bitching at the point that I need to know 3

neither is upstart

allquixotic

@TomWijsman maybe if you disable enough of the functionality of systemd to be as minimal as your OpenRC, it would be as fast or faster... but as I understand it your OpenRC starts basically nothing at boot except the kernel and X

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