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00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

00:05
morning
 
1 hour later…
02:06
@JourneymanGeek yup agreed :)
@Sathya thanks for clear it to me :)
03:06
@Sathya: could I have two of my chat posts deleted? ;p
sure, which ones
http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/118?m=6407569#6407569

http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/118?m=6219906#6219906
done :) all the best
lol
Once I grad. 8 months is gonna feel like an eternity ;p
hehe
need to hurry to office asap
03:10
tho in that period, I'm relearning key school stuff
gogo ;p
it:'s 8:40am, but looks like 8:40pm :o
laters
 
2 hours later…
05:32
> Cadbury India to be now known as Mondelez
wtf?!
0
Q: Add review queue for recent migrations

nhinkleIt's pretty well established that crappy migrations (mostly originating from Stack Overflow) are a recurring problem here on Stack Exchange. Some have suggested eliminating migrations completely, while others have suggested banning repeat-crap-migrators from voting to migrate in the future. For ...

06:27
@nhinkle +1 for the picture alone. I wonder why anyone would object to this. It makes perfect sense to have these migrations reviewed as well.
 
1 hour later…
07:54
It is appropriate to ask about suggested edits on meta?
are you here @jokerdino?
@msPeachy Yes, of course it is… or just ask here on chat.
What's the issue?
Just want to ask why my suggested edit on this was rejected, not that I'm complaining, I just want to know
@slhck hi, thank you
@msPeachy I believe it was rejected because I had also edited that post in the meantime.
So, nothing to worry about, just coincidence
@msPeachy Hiya
@slhck I see. Okay, thanks for responding.
08:00
@msPeachy Yeah, it was autorejected because of edit clash.
It happened to me at least once before.
@jokerdino yes, now I see it. but I wanted a clean record for suggested edits...:(((
lol
lol I have a clean record only on AU.
@msPeachy Don't worry about it, your edits are good.
The rest of the sites are tainted.
@slhck Okay, thank you again.
08:03
Good job editing!
@jokerdino now I don't! Well at least my flags are perfect, for now
Ah?
You got a perfect flag record? How awesome.
Yes, but I have so few.
On AU or on SU?
here
08:05
My record on any other site other than AU is laughable.
on SU, on AU I flag as I want, lol
lol
i only have 81 helpful flags on SU.
Should do more on SU.
I have got 10
lol
that's not bad since you only really joined last week or so.
I am the latest deputy onboard in SU.
they are so quick here on the Review, almost always nothing to review for me, once in a while I get one but by the time I'm done editing, it has been reviewed by another.
@jokerdino but I have 625 on AU
08:09
@msPeachy Hm, I guess because there are too many people in here ;p
@msPeachy Nice!
I used to farm flags in AU like mad. I stopped a while ago.
Like half a year ago.
lol, why?
Because you people clean up before I usually review o.O
I do not exactly farm flags but I do the review everyday, so I get to flag a lot.
Well, I am just trivializing the whole review thing.
@jokerdino Well yes, there are new comers to the review too, pen and maythux guy are always there
08:12
I am a bit critical of the last guy.
Yes, something fishy about him
I have a mini complaint list about him but that's another day.
lol
here comes the OCD in you?
not exactly. The plagiarism meta is written entirely because of him.
Oh that, he posted a meta too
08:17
from the depths of wtf suggested edits superuser.com/review-beta/suggested-edits/38504
hi Sathya
speaking of Ask Ubuntu, haven't dropped by AU since quite some time
@Sathya Sounds like Indonesian to me :P
hi @msPeachy :)
@msPeachy he did?
08:18
@jokerdino well not in response to your meta but he did about his answers being downvoted
@Sathya yes, you haven't, so we put the blame on poor Amith
Right. And that meta was downvoted itself.
OK, don't make me say anything more about him.
lol
he deleted it I guess
Change the topic!
it's funny that we're talking here, when we're both on the AU room
08:23
@msPeachy heh
@msPeachy heh we are just invading the SU room.
btw we'll be kicking off a webapps cleanathon soon.
they seem to talk less here
@msPeachy Yes.
participate & win! and help us keep webapps clean!
08:24
Sure thing!
win what?
Goodies.
goodies, subscriptions. Still working out the details
serious?
You get a free Amazon voucher ;P
08:25
yeah (I'm a Mod on webapps too)
/showoff
expect the content to start in another couple of weeks
@jokerdino pfft.
meta.askubuntu.com/questions/4220/… remind me again why Ask Ubuntu has only OT/Meta in migrations?
@Sathya Well, you were :P
08:26
@Sathya yes I know, someone told me all about that
@jokerdino :P
@jokerdino: better him than EC ;p
@Sathya Because we like to keep trash!
@msPeachy I probably did :P
@JourneymanGeek i guess I have to agree with that.
There simply weren't any better candidate.
What's EC?
@msPeachy Election commission.
08:27
@jokerdino yes
lol
@msPeachy: user who tends to annoy a lot of people
But I should also give credit to Sathya for what he is.
oh so not what but who?
yep.
He's a troll to say the least.
08:29
Well, if he's a troll and he annoys a lot of people then he certainly won't be a mod
He will be if he wins an election
he's stood in, ELU and webapps so far
did he stand here?
Not yet.
@JourneymanGeek I guess he didn't or haven't annoyed enough number of people to win a mod election
You probably don't know him.. at all.
I have no idea who he is, is he on AU too?
08:33
Yes.
-12
Q: Duplicate post or not? Why is the mod deleting questions that are clearly not duplicates?

Evan CarrollI just self answered two questions that I see get asked a ton. They both follow the same template. How do you remap Caps Lock to Control in Xubuntu? How do you swap Control and CAPS Lock in Xubuntu? Both of these two involve the same objects, Control and Caps Lock but they're totally differen...

> I AM AWESOME
ehehehe
I'd rather have other people think so
he probably thinks he is
I am happy
I... am too darned busy XD
08:37
lol
darn, same here :(
@jokerdino lol. I should send more trash towards you then.
he's on a lot of SE sites
lunch time
@Sathya We probably won't complain anyway. ;p
@Sathya cya
@msPeachy Not much of a surprise.
08:38
@Sathya enjoy your lunch
Bob
Bob
Could someone (with access to Adobe Reader X) check this?
0
A: Is there a way to open a pdf automatically in a specific page?

Bob(Screenshots from Adobe Reader 9) You can set Adobe Reader to always restore the last view, which includes the last page, when opening documents: Open the preferences window (Edit => Preferences). Go to the Documents category on the left. Tick Restore last view settings when reopening document...

thanks - back later
Bob
Bob
@Bob Apparently it doesn't work for the OP... :S
@Bob ->
Bob
Bob
08:39
@Sathya ?
> automatically open them in a specific page
@jokerdino Even you can reply to your post. Not just @Bob.
still not sure if OP wants to open in specific page or last page.
Bob
Bob
> I read pdf-books and wanted to ask if there is a way to automatically open them in a specific page (so as not to have to navigate to the last page I read every single time).
alas no Reader X here. Probably at home
@Bob yes, that's why I mention
36 secs ago, by Sathya
still not sure if OP wants to open in specific page or last page.
08:40
@jokerdino In the formatting alone, I'm guessing he didn't get it.
he mentions both :)
Bob
Bob
:S
anyway, bbl
@msPeachy If you check the history, you know what sort of a problem he was.
Bob
Bob
@Sathya cya
08:43
@jokerdino who's jeff atwood?
@msPeachy Co founder of Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange.
he had 1 helpful flag and 1 question at the time of the election
/me blames @JourneymanGeek for bringing EC into the convo :P
lol
well at least now I know him
He is a good example of how you shouldn't be online.
2
09:05
@jokerdino have to go, nap time
catch you later
 
3 hours later…
12:23
finally got to it.
The wrench is not dead, it just moved
The tab icon switches between sections
Aww. Apparently I missed a question about someone frying their motherboard?
12:30
@tombull89 Did he fry it due to a given answer?
yesterday, by Bob
Oh yea, whatever happened to that guy who fried his HDD circuit board?
HDD board, sorry, not motherboard
His account got suspended because he was underage.
Oh...question should still be around then. poke's search
Oh that
@tombull89 I can't track it down. The user was hard-deleted :P
ouch. i thought he was just suspended.
12:37
@OliverSalzburg Oh, wow. That seems a little harsh, when we've had underage users before their account got dropped to 1 rep and they could carry on as normal when they turned the right age.
Data entered into the system by sub-13 year olds is serious business to my understanding
maybe they got stricter over the days.
It's one of those things that has to be escalated immediately
0
Q: Hard drive spark, can it be recovered?

user163558Alright, so I was going to install Source Film Maker but I didn't have any space, so I decided to connect an HDD via an USB converter(image below). I shut down the machine, turned the PSU off, and connected via a Molex connector & the USB converter. I turned back on the PSU, no sparks or anyt...

2
There we go
Ooh dear. Poor kid, although I'd be interested to see what he actually wanted to achieve with it.
@tombull89 I guess he was just trying to offload some of the data. So many safer ways to do this.
13:04
For those who care ;P
Bob
Bob
1
A: Replace a CSS of one site to a similar CSS of another one

SathyaThere are couple of a Chrome Extensions, Stylish and StyleBot which allow for designing of themes and style individual elements. While Stylish relies on userstyles for custom styles, Stylebot has a an inbuilt sharing tool for share and fetch custom style sheets for most sites. For this speci...

@Bob evil muffins.
13:25
@tombull89 no, deleted
@tombull89 per legal, SE's not allowed to store any PII of a person less than 13yrs
@Bob lol, fixed
@jokerdino Benny comes to my mind, but recent protocol seems to be remove such info
I see. I know that Benny!
He is an aussie.
Bob
Bob
@Sathya It looks like the closing parenthesis should be just before the ampersand... bleh.
@Bob well no, the parenthesis offers the other way - or not.
Bob
Bob
lol
Sorry if I'm being too pedantic :P
You are being too pedantic.
13:31
luckily for @Bob this is chat :P
heheh
Apparently Google.ie's DNS is hijacked news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4631184
woah.
I'm still getting the right one though
Bob
Bob
@Sathya Yay caching...
...which is usually a pain in the arse.
13:36
hehe
@Sathya Yeah, Benny was who I was thinking about - guess things have become a bit more strict now.
@tombull89 yeah.
2 days ago, by Sathya
welp, there it goes. cc @jou @Nifle
didn't want to do that >_>
I really think trying to get sympathy cause you're a kid is silly ;p
13:44
@Bob Take note --^
A technical problem is a technical problem, I don't care if you're a 9 year old boy, or someone's great grand mother.
(Just kidding).
Bob
Bob
@jokerdino ?
Nvr mind.
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Could make a difference in how you explain it to them, though, in the same way 'homework' questions might.
13:47
I think I should have tagged Hack instead.
Bob
Bob
??
@Bob: I picked those examples for a reason ;p
 
1 hour later…
15:04
Herro :3
Bob
Bob
hi
Time to take my laptop apart again :\
Bob
Bob
15:34
@jokerdino What time is it over there?
@Bob why are you doing that?
@Bob 11.37 pm.
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Some keys on my keyboard were a little dodgy... turns out the ribbon cable wasn't properly connected :\
lol, in @jokerdino world, every time is leet time :D
11:37 is leet
I am serious :D
15:36
or rather 13:37 (24-hour clock)
It was 2337 at that time.
@Bob you have a fast fourier transform cable? crazy
oh.. FFC... fibre channel... for a keyboard?!
Bob
Bob
Ah screw it. I'll just call it a ribbon cable.
ah. "Flexible Flat Cable"
TIL
Bob
Bob
lol
15:39
(I don't know much about laptop internals except that they're miniaturized versions of desktop internals, and I know about LVDS as a typical connector for flat panel monitors on laptops)
Bob
Bob
it's essentially an extremely fragile and thin/compact ribbon cable.
They're used in phones (usually to connect the display to the board) too
And a whole lot of other places.
I've read a few phone teardown articles, and some guys who were hardware hacking at a place where I interned previously (developing smartphone OS) let me look at the internals
but I don't know the details other than that they are barely serviceable by hand, and you need lots of special tiny tools
Bob
Bob
The last time I took a phone apart was to replace the screen. That was an E65.
I also recall being woken from slumber on a couch at about 8 am (at that point I'd had about 3 hours of sleep over the past 2 days) and asked to use my "young and discerning eyes" to tell a UI engineer whether I could tell the difference between a display that was double buffered and one that was single buffered
in terms of smoothness of UI animations
my eyes were so shot that the screens were flickering (due to fatigue my eyes weren't operating at their native FPS / refresh rate) and I was like... uhhh... you're asking the wrong person
Bob
Bob
They really needed a second opinion?
15:43
these days the question is between double and triple buffering... funny that back in 2008 we were debating whether to use double buffering at all... nowadays I think Android is looking at triple buffering (or did Jelly Bean enable it by default?) and iDevices use it for a long time
well they were scrolling text in a browser and needed an opinion on whether it looked smoother... I guess they were kind of old and couldn't tell on the small screen? granted, in 2007/2008 they had much worse screens too
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Eh, VS2010/.NET4 still defaults to double buffering off
And I always forget to check that.
i mean they were backlit LCDs, but the Droid 1's LCD made these things look like ancient technology
64 meg of RAM
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic That's a hundred times more than you need!
we were working on a competitor to Android when Android was just a little (unreleased) side project at Google
actually as I recall our main competition at the time was iOS and we still thought Windows Phone was threatening to take over the market... ha ha
(we still called it Windows Mobile back then)
it's funny... I learned a lot by interning at PalmSource (which had just been acquired by ACCESS Systems). Learned a lot about how not to do things ;P
they kept turning the boat every year and never got a product to market AFAIK
2005: PalmOS Garnet is old and outdated... we need a new OS to replace it that's betterer and can work on new hardware, like these full color LCDs and 64MB of RAM!
2006: OK, we're working on a new version of PalmOS! Based on the old one (for which we own the IP) but with new features!
late-2006/early-2007: Crap, that won't work... old stuff is too old and it doesn't even allow multitasking, this sucks... I KNOW! Let's start all over and create a new platform based on Linux! Because Linux is cool
Bob
Bob
Palm...
15:51
mid-2007: Crap, people still want to run their old PalmOS Garnet apps! We need a Garnet virtual machine that runs within the memory budget of a smartphone with 64MB of RAM and no hardware floating point or virtualization instructions!
Bob
Bob
I remember when i had an eBook I wanted to read. It was in a format where the only program (at the time) that could open it was for Palm devices.
I vaguely recall getting an emulator for the Palm Pilot and reading it through there. That was a convoluted mess...
2008: OK, we're on our third revision of our Linux-based Palm-ish OS... our Garnet VM is still a memory hog and crashes our OS... and our customers hate our OS and keep wanting to make changes!
2009: Crap, our customers pulled funding. We're in a big hole now and with no products launched. Wut do?
2010: Ahhhh we're all getting fired! Help! No, screw that -- abandon ship!
2011: Let's start writing some apps for Android....
2012: Our apps for Android aren't gaining much traction. Welp, this sucks.
therein lies the history of PalmSource since ~2005 :)
@Bob And no, not "Palm"... the company named Palm got bought up by HP, after they separated from their software division, PalmSource, in like 2003 (or maybe a bit later, 2005 I think)
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic I know, you just reminded me of Palm :P
Possibly the most idiotic move in history: separating the software and hardware divisions of one unified platform into two separate companies
now both companies are small niche divisions of larger companies that are themselves beleaguered by becoming increasingly irrelevant in the market
it'd be like splitting Apple into AppleSoft, the developer and IP owner of iOS and Mac OS X, and Apple, the producer of hardware, and not maintaining any business ties or relationship between the two halves
they'd both be dead within 5 years
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic And then AppleSoft gets sued by Apple for trademark infringement...
15:59
When life gives you apples, make applesauce
16:13
0
Q: 'Preserve' State for keep real bad questions as reference

Holy SheetAs this comment shows, even bad questions have some value in serving as a reference for, well, bad questions. However questions with a lot of downvotes tend to be deleted, so the system lacks a final bad-question-keep-for-reference state (besides open and closed).

16:37
What the...
Some process is changing my mouse cursor to the idle cursor... constantly
It just keeps switching back and forth, driving me crazy :P
It was the Print Spooler O__o
16:57
Hi everyone
Looks like it's a good thing Michael Dell didn't get to shut down Apple 15 years ago :-)
17:13
@DanielBeck What does that graph represent?
@allquixotic Share price comparison with 100%=Oct 1997 of AAPL vs. DELL from the day Michael Dell said about Apple "I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders" just over 15 years ago, to today. The stagnating one is Dell, the other, starting to increase around 2005, is Apple.
A very popular quote on some of the more Apple-centric web sites I read from time to time.
The unchecked exponential growth of a privately-held organization that does not have the public's best interest at heart can hardly be called a "good thing", but I can understand how someone can think this is a good thing if they hold stock in Apple.
Fortunately, today, there are alternatives. But their aggression to try and defeat their competition through the courts (hello, Samsung, HTC, et al) smacks of an attempted coup of the entire consumer electronics industry. Fascism at its best. Unchecked power.
Here's a very popular quote: Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely.
@allquixotic Microsoft, hp, and pretty much all other Android phone manufacturers showed that you can create a modern smartphone UI without needing to copy the most distinguishing elements of a competitor's.
It's not like they're a 5 person company without a legal research team. They bet against Apple and lost (for now).
@DanielBeck Ah, but it's all in the definition of "copy". Apple's singular goal is to increasingly expand the definition of what exactly it means to infringe on some form of Apple "intellectual property" (which basically comes down to copyright, patent, or trademark infringement, or some combination of the three), so that eventually even MSFT, HP and the Android guys become targets.
A lot of people in the tech community already see their accusations against Samsung to be pretty ludicrous. If that becomes the new precedent, then the next new precedent in a few years will be even more sweeping.
@allquixotic Have you actually looked at the patents?
17:30
No, because I'm not a patent lawyer; attempting to interpret them would be equivalent to my reading Chinese (in which I have no formal training). "Looking at the patents", even if that gave me some kind of magical insight into just how right Apple's claim was under the law, the point is that the law is trending towards favoring patent holders.
True, but even if the patents themselves were questionable it wouldn't be Apple to blame but the patent office that accepted them in the first place.
And it's not like they didn't try to get back at Apple. They however used essential patents for that. It's easily possible to build a smartphone that doesn't look like the iPhone. Pretty much all the others do. Building a phone without getting reasonable license terms for essential patents OTOH is pretty difficult.
You have a system (I'm making a reference to C++ here) that overloads the operator==() function to make A==B return true. The implementation of A==B in the courts continues to widen, until at some point it's practically going to be implemented as if(patent.holder == 'Apple') return true;
@allquixotic It was decided by a jury. Aren't they just basically random guys off the street?
Validating that, yes indeed, the patents as they stand do in fact result in a return true; for the current implementation of operator==() is not going to give me any new insight, though.
17:33
@slhck That's why I think we need to consider who the players here are. It's not a small independent software vendor against Apple, it's Samsung. They do have a legal team to figure this out.
So you're saying a company that doesn't do its research and gets slammed in a patent case for not finding an existing patent that they're infringing upon is somehow at fault?
The problem is that translating source code and feature descriptions into legalese and then doing a comprehensive search over the entire patent database for each feature, where each 'feature' can be defined at an arbitrary level of abstraction, is an impossibly hard problem... I can't even quantify it in terms of complexity.
@allquixotic If it's a large, international company with the legal resources, a large patent portfolio of their own, and design docs essential saying "we need to make our stuff more like Apple's", definitely.
Plus, licensing costs are huge. You don't start researching/designing something without looking if someone else already did it. Because that could be a PITA later on.
So, licensing costs are huge (and the patent holder has no obligation to even agree to license it to you in the first place); patent infringement litigation costs are huge; and the cost of exhaustively determining that every feature at every layer of abstraction in every line of source you write is not infringing is huge. What's a company of any size to do?
The system is clearly stifling innovation. A company would have to invest about 98% of its resources into its legal team to truly be a reasonable degree of "safe" from this type of issue.
@allquixotic Lobby against the existing insane patent politics. For some reason, the big players love being able to patent stupid shit. Samsung clearly plays the same game.
17:39
I'm not excusing Samsung. I don't doubt that, given the amount of growth and the patent portfolio that Apple has, Samsung would probably be the bad guy. It's pointless to play favorites among a host of evils.
I do lobby against the existing patent system. But I don't excuse those who willingly play on the fallacy of the system, any more than I excuse those who run the system itself.
@allquixotic I don't play favorites. I hope Apple gets a kick in the balls for ripping off the Swiss train station clock design, for example. That's just not cool.
Blatantly obvious copy of someone else's design, only this time Apple infringes. And I do not try to play that down.
Aw, no stratosphere jump for today.
The mere existence of a potentially exploitable situation doesn't force one to exploit it. Would you take advantage of a prurient person {of a sex/gender which you selectively prefer} if you had them in an extremely advantageous situation, such as alone in an isolated area? Most people would say: no way, I wouldn't do that.
But that's exactly what Apple (and Samsung, in a parallel universe where they got the first jump) is doing / would do.
It's funny, because Google outwardly says they want to explicitly not do it, which is in essence, allying themselves with the common man's sense of morality. "Don't be evil". I don't know whether they are living up to that or not, but... the system makes it very difficult for any corp to live up to such an ideal, doesn't it?
@allquixotic They're competitors. They compete.
If you design something nice and someone else comes along and copies it, do you think that's OK?
Right. Like two robbers who stumble into the same house at the same time with the same goal. They both want all the money and valuables in the house, so they start sparring with knives.
Perfectly normal human behavior.
@DanielBeck Absolutely. Ideas are meant to be copied. It doesn't serve anyone except myself to pass some legislation that places me up on some pedestal and gives me some exclusive rights just for being the first to think of something. Who the hell cares who came first?
Ideas, designs, blueprints, concepts, whatever you want to call them -- they have this awfully convenient built-in feature that the cost of sharing them is excessively low. The information infrastructure of the internet has made that painfully obvious, where it was only partially obvious in the day of books.
It is truly counterproductive to introduce artificial walls to attempt to limit the spread and deployment of good ideas. The best results -- the best manufactured objects, physical items, and even the best ideas, emerge from the combination of diverse ideas from all corners of the earth.
17:49
@allquixotic Except that the most economical approach is to take what others come up with and clone it. Much cheaper than inventing stuff on your own. Which results in the most successful companies being those that excel at having no original ideas.
I've heard the argument that taking away the incentive of doing something different would cause us to become stagnant and not introduce any new ideas. The reality is that the creation/discovery/production of new ideas does not require an economic incentive. So many people will produce novel ideas regardless of whether it benefits them or not.
And, there are a few economic incentives to being the first to come up with something, even without the patent system. See, it takes time to develop products. In the day of consumer electronics, product development cycles, even when you have all the ideas squarely in your hands, are very expensive and take a long time.
So if you're first, you go ahead and use your ideas and develop a product, and -- hey! -- you're first to the market by 6 to 12 months. You've got a new killer feature, and you effectively have a monopoly on that feature until someone can copy it.
Even if the information travels at light speed from your brain conceiving the idea to someone trying to implement it, you've got the advantage because you can keep it a trade secret (which involves no law, just protecting your company's proprietary information) until it hits the market.
So if it's truly a remarkable new idea, it's going to have some tangible impact on the product, and that's going to drive your revenue. Boom. Financial incentive for the birth of ideas.
And those who don't make financial incentive a prerequisite for producing new ideas? They exist. Professors and grad students at universities are happy to produce new ideas and unleash them upon the public for a salary and a nice academic medal or award.
The system is so allergic to the possibility that some poor inventor could conceive an incredible new idea and be forced to live in poverty for the rest of his life because everyone else stole his ideas and productized them faster than he could. It's a corner case. The system optimizes to protect a corner case when the elephant in the room says the system is broken.
@allquixotic Do you have numbers to back that assertion? Given how many people are paid to have ideas, it's difficult to imagine it'd just continue as it does now. Especially the big innovations, not just incremental improvements.
@allquixotic To me it seems whatever university's doing — there's always a company who has been doing the same thing behind closed doors for longer, just because they have more money :)
@allquixotic Halloey! You seem to talk a lot recently. I bet you are a fast typer. "Think Different" is Apple's slogan and I agree with it.
00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

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