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00:31
-2
A: Google Chrome Developer Tools not displaying

oijoijoijwell, that didn't work... lol.

lol
> well, that didn't work... lol.
Exactly 30 characters long.
01:05
hah
@bwDraco Sometimes I think my users are too efficient ;)
 
1 hour later…
02:08
iirc, xkcd #2020 is going to be another xkcd phone.
 
6 hours later…
08:07
I can't access Dropbox.
08:21
derrrrrrrrrrp
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
08:47
It works on other browsers, it works on a smartphone. It does not work in Chrome.
Cleared cache, cookies, vegetables.
09:03
am i crazy or is this a bug
Bob
Bob
09:37
@user2476549 welcome to floating point. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
that's why you should never == two floating point numbers resulting from calculations
SpeedCrunch (my replacement for the W10 calculator that takes entirely too long to start) says it's 0.29 as expected
Bob
Bob
and why you use an epsilon to check for equality of floats => c-faq.com/fp/fpequal.html
@GDPR calculators often use fixed-point arithmetic or otherwise round the result so it looks alright
heh, the iOS calculator actually had weird floating point results being exposed to the UI for a while until they patched it to give the obvious fixed value when it makes sense to do it
especially with decimals and mult/division like that
09:52
@user2476549 it's not a bug, so you must be crazy.
 
1 hour later…
Bob
Bob
11:03
hm
I found my AS5
there's like half a tube left
Jan 16 '17 at 0:01, by Bob
hm... still have half a tube of AS5 in a drawer somewhere, I think
Feb 15 at 9:31, by Bob
I have no idea where I put my old tube of AS5
:P
That's something I think most of us have no problems with...
11:37
monitor question
I'd like to get into the 144hz life
goddamn clippy not now!
there's no tag
I'm trying to figure out whether IPS is worth the price, and also if ~VA is fine too or not
ffs clippy
and then there comes the aspect of freesync/gsync
max res I think I'm comfortable with is 2560x1440 but then the diagonal size gotta be right to feel like an extension of my current fullhd 24" display coz I've been on that for a veeeery long time
so it's gotta be ~30" to retain the same pixel saze
@Hakase IPS is usually very very much nicer in terms of colour quality
and viewing angle
than VA?
compared to TN it's obvious
@ADHDCat might be able to tell you I think
they have a VA screen
11:50
but I'm seeing 70% high framerate displays with VA panels so idk what to do
I have a pair of UHD monitors one TN one IPS in front of me ;)
ah
I don't do the high refresh rate ones
oh ok
why not?
Just that I do a lot of text
and the high res was more important to me at the time
you have a multimonitor setup or just one large?
2x +1
27, 28 and one 7 inch monitor for the linux box
11:56
fullhd 2560 or 3840 (or 5120)
damn boi these prices
MG279Q costs as much as an entire pc without a gpu
Bob
Bob
12:18
@Hakase tbh 1080p on 24" is suboptimal
higher res with DPI scaling looks nicer
12:53
this is cool
also a little sad that it took 40 years to see those pictures in their full glory
 
2 hours later…
14:33
@Bob I'm a special snowflake who doesn't like antialiasing and smoothed text so it's just right for me
 
2 hours later…
16:04
#cloudme @tweetcloudbot wat
lol
 
1 hour later…
17:17
I trust that I am not the only one who finds this rather sudden: Microsoft declares Windows 10 April 2018 Update ready for businesses
Essentially, there were only six weeks between RTM and ready-for-business. That seems to be much faster than the last two Feature Updates! Right now my home network machines are configured to use the Semi-Annual Channel with an extra 30-day deferral, but I may need to bump that up to 60 days.
17:46
@Run5k yeah it does seem fast
not that i take that much notice
I tend to be very conservative with my home network machines, and there isn't really anything compelling within version 1803 that I want to use as soon as possible. Ultimately, I was hoping to see more than two or three "Patch Tuesday" cycles before version 1803 was automatically installed, especially with a noticeably larger amount of problems related to this Feature Update.
still, at work, we have machines that are updating/rebooting, even when the guys tell us they shouldn't :/
18:30
@JourneymanGeek I have TN, VA, IPS, and OLED screens. I guess all I'm missing is plasma?
@Hakase TN is fastest and lowest quality. VA is medium speed and medium quality. IPS is slowest and highest quality.
Gross oversimplification there, but w/e.
Also, gotta love when this shit happens:
> [1901950.956716] Add. Sense: Unrecovered read error - auto reallocate failed
[1901950.956725] end_request: I/O error, dev sdd, sector 5128026225
18:53
gloss oversimplification :p
@ADHDCat is TN still faster than IPS in some way if both monitors are 165hz?
like are there ghost frames which remain for a couple frames at a fraction of intensity or something
I've read a bit about it a long time ago and I bet technologies have changed over the years and something had been done after the high framerate craze started
do you have any 120/144/165/200hz monitors on different matrices to compare
19:20
> Firmly say "No!" to authorities abusing their powers. Every accused has the right to be properly charged with tangible material evidence.
lol
19:40
lol
I'm woindering why you're looking at their profilke tho
As it happens he deleted himself from Super User a few days ago ...
His posts are (mostly) still there, but with a generic username.
20:04
meh
lets not talk about him
Anyone upto anything fun this weekend@?
@djsmiley2k Well I'm drinking a nice bottle of red wine - that's the nearest I get to fun these days ... :/
:D
Cokes and Vodka here
And a brand new, sealed pack of 1.44MB floppy disks
:D
My bro found em. I think I brought them when I was in college
making them ~12 years old
They come in 5 colours
@djsmiley2k You still have a floppy drive?
Hahah no.
I thought they would be more expensive, but you can still get them for UKP 2 per disk :)
So they are not yet collectors items ...
20:19
...and my desktop just bluescreened.
Nothing displayed, but system stopped responding and a lot of data was written to disk.
@bwDraco dmp file with luck :)
Microsoft (R) Windows Debugger Version 10.0.17674.1000 AMD64
Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


Loading Dump File [C:\WINDOWS\MEMORY.DMP]
Kernel Bitmap Dump File: Kernel address space is available, User address space may not be available.


************* Path validation summary **************
Response                         Time (ms)     Location
Deferred                                       SRV*D:\sysdebug\symbols*msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols
Symbol search path is: SRV*D:\sysdebug\symbols*msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols
> PROCESS_NAME: PrecisionX_x64.exe
> DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL (d1)
An attempt was made to access a pageable (or completely invalid) address at an
interrupt request level (IRQL) that is too high. This is usually
caused by drivers using improper addresses.
If kernel debugger is available get stack backtrace.
Arguments:
Arg1: 0000000000000000, memory referenced
Arg2: 0000000000000002, IRQL
Arg3: 0000000000000008, value 0 = read operation, 1 = write operation
Arg4: 0000000000000000, address which referenced memory
Arg1: 0000000000000000, memory referenced
Precision XOC caused a kernel null pointer dereference?
Bleh. Software bug. I guess I'll have to wait for an update from EVGA.
20:36
@Hakase TN is like a million times faster
Fleet Command ragequit?
@ADHDCat so… like a thousandth of a millisecond delay?
@Hakase The refresh rate may be the same, but TN displays still have faster response times. Although the latest IPS panels are a significant improvement, they're still slower than TN.
how is that slowness perceived
@ADHDCat FC had decided to delete his account.
I don't get that part
20:39
@Hakase Ghosting. Slow response time. Blurriness. All the usual.
Think back to laptop screens in the 1990's...
is fleet command the guy who trolled and got tempbanned in chat rather frequently?
@Hakase No, that was me
@ADHDCat never had a laptop until 2009 so :p
@Hakase Faster response times mean that you'll see the action appear faster and get less motion blur.
I had a tft dumbphone and in the winter the ghosting/frosting was tremendous lol
20:40
I once tried to use a cheap IPS display for gaming. It was far, far worse than even a regular TN panel, despite the fact that both panels were 60 Hz.
@Hakase Think of it this way, a monitor with 1ms response time and 1000Hz can display 1000 different images per second. A monitor with 10ms response time and 1000Hz can display 1000 different images per second, but each image will overlap with the previous 10 as they slowly fade away
Higher refresh rates mean you'll get smoother motion, but blur is a different story.
I've seen high framerate vids of 60hz monitors back in the day broken into frames and showing examples of ghosting but I've been looking today and couldn't find any recent ones about 120hz+ monitors
I couldn't have said it better than @ADHDCat.
High refresh rate means you can send it more images in a given time, but response time is how long the monitor takes to actually show that image.
20:41
@ADHDCat oh shit that seems bad
Like I said, the action will appear on screen faster with shorter response times.
so it's not exactly "response time" but "complete pixel change time"
Increasing the refresh rate from 60 Hz to 144 Hz will reduce latency between frames, but this will not reduce the time the panel needs to change the pixels.
from what I understand most tech specs mean input lag by "response time"
like the internal processing of the monitor might take a couple ms
2
A: Does my monitor's GTG response time matter if it's faster than my refresh rate?

bwDracoDifferent sources of input lag add up. The limited refresh rate is but one source of latency, and the LCD's response time only adds to it. As you've pointed out, a typical 60 Hz monitor can take up to 16.667ms to update its contents. However, even after it updates its internal buffer, it still n...

@Hakase That's another few extra ms of delay.
Delay is cumulative.
20:43
oh yea the GTG thing… doesn't that mean nothing?
@Hakase Complete pixel change time varies drastically across technologies as well as what you are changing the pixel from and to.
like you wanna compare the black to white, not grey to grey (which means no change???)
Which is why there's a huge amount of confusion and mismarketing over these things.
or does gtg mean something else
GTG is the typical response time you'll encounter. It's not worst-case, but going from black to white will be slower than this number.
0
Q: difference between gtg and btw response time estimation of displays

user2543574What's the difference between grey-to-gray (GtG) and black-to-white (BtW) response time estimation of displays? Why would I like to know both of them? When (why) would they vary?

20:45
A monitor might take 2ms to change a pixel from 10% grey to 20% grey, but take 10ms to change from 10% grey to 60% grey.
oh so it's about shades of gray
This is why I like OLED... the response time is pretty much dependant on how fast you can switch a transistor, and on standard monitor tests, literally too low to be measurable.
which means it's not very descriptive coz difference is unknown
There's sorta standards, but yes. Going from 20% to 40% is quicker than going from 20% to 100% or 0% to 100%. Depending on technology.
are there even oled monitors?
wouldn't the taskbar burn in horrifically after a bit of using
20:47
And since going from 20% to 40% is so much quicker than going from 0% to 100%, they quote the former figure to make things look faster on paper
It's like "Hey this car can go from 30 to 60 in 2 seconds!" but they don't tell you how long it takes to get from 0 to 60. Or 0 to 100.
thankfully I'm not into cars
or paper
Aaanyway. TN = fast. MVA = medium. IPS = slow. That's pretty much it. There's plenty of tricks used on each and every technology to make things react faster, or appear faster without actually reacting faster, making slower technologies more competitive. Similarly, there's tricks used on poorer quality panel types (e.g. TN) to improve colour and viewing angles, so they are both fast, and reasonably accurate.
It just comes down to reading individual monitor reviews and comparing what they say to what you need.
ok so if I'm looking to buy a 165hz display I should be looking for a curved TN
One of the fastest 1440p monitors out there is the Dell S2417DG. It's the monitor I personally use and I can't say I've ever been disappointed with it.
Course, you can get a shitty IPS that's worse than a good TN, or a slow TN that's slower than a highly optimised fast IPS.
@Hakase Ask yourself what you need 165Hz for, what you need a curved display for, and what you need a display for full stop.
20:51
HAMMERTIME!
STAHP
HAMMAHTIME!
halt
HALT
HAMMERZEIT!
20:52
no no no no no
lol what's with the blocking in this room
@bwDraco if you can't stop obcessing over it, it'll never get any less annoying
@Hakase just ignore it.
last time someone blocked me they deleted their account >.>
also what's with the stahp hammertime meme
Colour critical professional photo/video work - get a professional IPS, end of story. Time critical competitive fast action gaming, get a gaming optimized TN, end of story. Movies, general pictures, web, non-professional gaming... you get to choose from the whole gamut of 50000 different types.
I get that it's the default functionality of zirak's bot but why do people keep it enabled
20:54
Because cats!
!!caaaaaaaaaat
@ADHDCat That didn't make much sense. Maybe you meant: caaaaaaaaaat, caaaaaaaaat, caaaaaaaat
Did someone change my caaaaaaaaaat command or are these drugs messing with my brain
I see Samsung C32HG70QQI for 600 usd with 1ms of response time allegedly
but it's *VA
most of these big ones are VA
some are IPS but yea
Read a review, see if it meets your needs
well, if I had unlimited money, I'd just order all of the best and compare them at home
and it looks like our stores don't have the TN types available for cheaper than ~600 usd
the entire pc I'm planning to build will cost that much
20:57
If I had unlimited money I'd get Dell to re-release their 32" professional OLED display with a proper driver circuit.
and then people keep telling me "oh you can't have a 1030 in your pc just get a 1070 already"
which is gonna cost another 600 usd
@Hakase This for gaming?
@ADHDCat so you don't know a way to frankenstein a display panel with a driver board from another monitor?
or just 'normal' stuff?
it's for normal and gaming stuff
20:58
OLED is quite literally the best for everything, but exceedingly expensive, exceedingly difficult to do right, and exceedingly niche. At least in the desktop market. But consider nearly all the flagship phones from the biggest manufacturers use OLED, you get the idea.
hmmm then dunno
gonna say LMG were reviewing some monitor from china
which is as good as a lot of the expensive ones
@Hakase Not a $5000 monitor with a custom driver chip that took Dell contractors two years to develop.
And still couldn't get right
@ADHDCat idk man I've looked at a bunch of budget samsung phones and that purple/green tint you see at slight angle change is whack af to me
@Hakase That's because budget phones use shit displays.
That's why they're budget.
the phones with ips displays for the same price were perfect tho
so idk why they did it
@djsmiley2k what if I said "just gaming" or "just normal"
the most realistic purchase for me is a fullhd 120hz display 230 usd
but I'd also like higher res and diagonal of ~30" but it's like twice as much
21:03
@Hakase Have you tried a 120Hz gaming monitor? Do you have a graphics card that can drive your games at 120FPS?
1030 gt
I'll get a 1050ti at most coz these things are expensive and I don't play demanding games or at anything other than minimal graphics
The only thing a 1030GT will run at 120FPS is Tetris.
yea yea
I've been living on 9800 for 9 years tell me something I haven't heard
couldn't even play any dx11 games until this year
winning solitaire tho is gonna be fuckin amazing on 165hz
I mostly want smoother regular desktop experience but I guess I can't have actual smooth browser scroll and better colors if it can't be IPS
smoother games… I can dream
does freesync/gsync do anything?
should I consider amd cards if I'm getting a freesync monitor?
and will it be worth whatever fps downgrade that comes with it reportedly
omfg this script is gonna get complicated fast D:
check if a photo is of res 1600x1200 or 1200x1600
sound ezpz so far
"check if it contains any birds capable of lifting 2kg of mass"
21:16
Heck, even a 1080 Ti will not drive a 144 Hz monitor at full speed if your game is heavy.
heavy how
2kg?
@Hakase i missed out the bit about 'figure out if the photo is rotated
but I found now, that all the photos taken at the two res's given above, are always rotated correctly
oh nice
wanna see some spooky ghosts?
this is on top of phone camera weird shutter stuff
this one pic really makes you Think
weird, looks fine here
oh
21:30
I wonder what the vertical lines are about
they don't match the vertical lines on the screen
probably the way this phone does consecutive speed shots
haven't used that feature once until now
22:10
Sooooo yeah @Hakase u know python?
22:23
@djsmiley2k I only know cockroach
thankfully I also know spider so he'll be feasting on the roach soonish
turns out you gotta look out for dual link DVI support in gpus coz 1030 only supports single link and I wouldn't be able to get 144hz out of certain cheap monitors
which sucks
but for reals I don't know python
why do you use python tho
I could do probably anything with a c# console app and that's what I do
c# also comes with a very convenient debugger :p
good for home and work projects
but wait…
if my monitor's got 2ms response rate, then this kinda ghosting is to be expected on other TN monitors as well?
maybe it gets 2 times less prominent but then it's still hella prominent man
I thought I could get so much better…
Iiyama G-Master GB2760QSU-1 is the cheapest one TN 2560 with 27" size
I don't wanna get 2560 at the same 24" I've been using for so long, it's gonna mess with my eyes
also I want a bigger monitor coz that only makes sense

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