Root Access

bwDraco

00:01

Ars Technica: Windows 10 S to become an OS mode rather than a distinct edition; new OEM pricing

Journeyman Geek

00:12

@bwDraco not everyone wants or needs bleeding edge hardware

Bob

@bwDraco Hm. Not bad.

Journeyman Geek

@MichaelFrank eh, those are good cards. Amusingly, didn't they replace the 8800s as the base recommended spec?

Bob

@JourneymanGeek tbf, there's ... quite a gap between a 560 and bleeding edge :P

bwDraco

I think a lot of newer games call for a GTX 660 as baseline.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob eh, it outputs video. It accelerates. For an older system, its good enough.

Bob

00:13

@bwDraco the storage distinction between entry and value is bad though

bwDraco

32 GB of eMMC... is going to have really bad endurance under typical consumer use conditions.

Agreed.

Michael Frank

OMG! Apparently I've been running my ReadyNAS that has a 1Gbit NIC off a 2pair patch cable... D:

Bob

@bwDraco endurance isn't the biggest issue, imo. performance is.

and capacity of course

bwDraco

Actually, with SLC buffers, performance is not unreasonably low.

Journeyman Geek

@MichaelFrank you monster

Michael Frank

00:19

I didn't even realise... It's been like... 4 years. T___T

Journeyman Geek

00:43

spacex's CG team is pretty damned good

Falcon Heavy Animation

►

Michael Frank

01:12

@bwDraco I know you use PHPSysInfo, but have you seen Linux Dash???

Bob

01:52

@JourneymanGeek the growl thing is simultaneously fun and terrifying :P

(...people commenting on issues. issues that are ... not easy ... to fix)

Journeyman Geek

;p

SORRY!

Journeyman Geek

02:09

(also, if there's so much popularity, and the old growl API is open source... why are there no forks/alternatives 0_0)

Bob

02:33

@JourneymanGeek tbf it's not that popular in the grand scheme of things

but I don't have telemetry so idk the actual counts

current version (1 week ago) has 14 downloads... previous one has 573 O_O

Journeyman Geek

@Bob or everyone's kinda mildly technically like me ;p

Bob

03:11

@JourneymanGeek ahhh internet archaeology

Huh. Searching for his name yields some more interesting results that support your sequence: groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.programming/rlG9slB8hI4/…, groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.msdos.programmer/DZsCeZVm8IY/…, groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.programming/TnP5J2U5zcA/…, groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.linux/eW3K1b_0by0/aS4Z6vmzwu0J (last one is a different email address but the timeline matches). So likely a very short-lived OS that might have existed on one person's computer. — Bob 55 secs ago

rahuldottech

04:00

@Bob That is so interesting!

This appears to be his (unused) MySpace account, and this is his Linkedin profile. A website containing downloads to his game can be found here, the source code to which can be found on the Google code page which his Stack Overflow profile links to. This appears to be his Google+ Profile. — rahuldottech 35 secs ago

@Bob

Bob

04:23

@rahuldottech Careful. There's multiple people with that name.

Even in Groups alone.

rahuldottech

04:39

@Bob I cross-checked information on each of those pages and what is written on his website

Bob

Ah.

@rahuldottech I only mention that cause while searching Groups the @dezine.net guy (the one we're looking for?) was writing an assembler in early 97, but some other guy with the same name @arrow-something) was asking for an intro to assembly in late 97 :P

rahuldottech

@Bob weird

Also, I'd hoped Geocities Archives would turn something up, as they almost always do in cases of teens from the late ninties-mid 2000s, but that was not the case

rahuldottech

05:02

PALS

rahuldottech

05:18

SLAP

bwDraco

06:10

soundexpert.org/home

TIL SBC at 328 Kbps (Bluetooth standard audio encoding, high quality) performs at about the same level as MP3 at 192 Kbps, which is generally indistinguishable from uncompressed audio.

Bob

06:34

@bwDraco I've been saying that for years.

chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=sbc&user=35822&room=118

That said, if you squint, you might be able to tell side-by-side.

Unlikely in a blind test.

bwDraco

There may be a faint difference in edge cases, but I doubt it would be audible under normal conditions.

well... is the aptX codec actually built into Windows 10 (making it hardware-independent), or does it still need a capable Bluetooth adapter?

I was not able to find any information on whether the Realtek RTL8822BE has aptX support.

The only device from which I can be reasonably sure I'm getting aptX is my phone.

Bob

@bwDraco It's part of the Windows BT/audio stack.

Nothing to do with the driver though.

If you install an alternative stack like the CSR Harmony one you'd use that one instead.

bwDraco

So you're saying it's hardware-independent, and I'm getting aptX through my PXC 550 when it's connected to my desktop?

allquixotic

@bwDraco only if you use the Microsoft user-mode Bluetooth stack, which only certain hardware can

Bob

You should be.

bwDraco

06:46

(AFAICT, stock Bluetooth stack, OEM driver)

allquixotic

especially old BT hardware is likely to require some third party BT stack which completely undercuts Microsoft's BT framework, and there you wouldn't necessarily get AptX (at least, not from Microsoft)

with the Microsoft stack on v1709+ (or v1703? I can't recall which build they released it in) you get regular (not Low Latency or HD) aptX

Bob

@allquixotic much earlier than that

1511 iirc

maybe even earlier

allquixotic

the third party ones I'm aware of that exist and at least run on Windows 10 are: Broadcom Widcomm (sucks), BlueSoleil (proprietary third-party mostly-trashware), and CSR Harmony

Bob

@allquixotic microsoft-guy said 1507

allquixotic

huh.

I'm sad but not surprised that none of my Feedback Hub requests have made it into even a fast ring build yet

Bob

06:50

@allquixotic do they have a status?

allquixotic

since my requests are all about hardware, and I don't want to upgrade my desktop to the fast ring, I either need to do Bluetooth passthrough in a VM to test it (not sure if a VM'ed BT would even use Microsoft's stack, but one can hope) or find a beater laptop and stick one of my CSR8510 A10s in it

@Bob none of them have any official Microsoft response, and <10 upvotes

Bob

@allquixotic you're in luck; since BT is attached via USB it'd be trivial to pass through

allquixotic

people generally either don't care, or figure it's just the way it is and feel powerless to improve it

@Bob heh, yeah, probably wouldn't be able to pass through my Intel PCIe card easily but I could pass through the CSR dongle that works just as well (including Class 1) on the Microsoft stack

wonder what latency the hypervisor would add in VMware

Bob

@allquixotic your "Intel PCIe card" uses USB for BT

allquixotic

O.o

Bob

06:52

xD

@allquixotic It actually goes back to MiniPCIe too

allquixotic

Bob

Both MiniPCIe and M.2 A-key/E-key slots provide PCIe and USB 2.0

Wireless cards provide Wi-Fi over PCIe and BT over USB

@allquixotic If you buy a PCIe => Mini-PCIe adapter (card), it also comes with a cable that connects to a USB 2.0 header.

allquixotic

does the USB have a separate conductor/pins or does it carry USB over the PCIe connector? I assume it has traces on the motherboard that go straight to the XHCI controller, since my mobo has exactly one XHCI controller and it's connected to the BT as well as my hubs

I need Louis Rossmann's board view software and a schematic of the Z370M now :P

Bob

@allquixotic There's a D+ and D- pin

Journeyman Geek

lol

Bob

07:03

Which makes sense, considering my card came with a USB cable. If it went through PCIe then that wouldn't be necessary (or even possible).

allquixotic

interesting

Bob

The on-board slot probably routes it internally to the EHCI controller.

allquixotic

spotted that in device manager randomly

1. desktop, not Xeon (never had a Xeon installed on this Windows instance, ever) 2. v8, not v5/v6 :P 3. wtf is a Gaussian Mixture Model

Bob

o.O

@allquixotic answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfbook-surfdrivers/…

>

I do not really understand, what a driver pertinent to Intel Xeon Processors should end up on the surface book (Skylake i7).

The Gaussian Mixture Model is basically a probabilistic model used to increase speed in cloud based applicationd such as cortana (Cloud based speech models and patterns). Will it work on the Skylakes too?

Compare 'Nuance' that works on Xeon.

> For Information on the Intel Xeon Driver- Gaussian Mixture - check out oem39.inf, open with editor. You will see in the comments section, that these drivers seem to be 'Dummy Driver' or Null-Objects.

Compare with oem19.inf. This is the earlier version and will show up if you restore the 'previous version' of this Driver.

hmmmm

whatsnext.nuance.com/connected-living/…

@allquixotic maybe some cortana thing?

certification.ubuntu.com/catalog/component/pci/8086%3A1911 O_O

allquixotic

I think it's a hardware dataset or some set of functionality that can be accessed by opcode or something that provides hardware accelerated natural language processing... who knows if Cortana actually uses it but that's what it's for, presumably

Bob

07:10

@allquixotic well, the v6 makes sense... v7 and v8 so far aren't new arches

gotta wait till ice lake for that

also arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/…

allquixotic

oh sweet, Unigine released a new version of their GPU-hungry engine now and a new benchmark called Superposition in 2017 apparently. I didn't discover it til just now and had been using Unigine Heaven/Valley for my benchmarking / load-driving purposes

going to run Superposition in a window and see if GPU-Z will detect getting all 16 PCIe lanes under load

Bob

@allquixotic I'm still using furmark for psu & fan tests :P

allquixotic

yaaaaay MicroATX -_- though it seems I don't need it:

bus load of 2-3%... when would it be higher? just GPGPU, video capture / encoding, that kind of thing, right?

wonder if AotS pushes the bus any harder because of the ridiculous number of draw calls it makes

@JourneymanGeek @Bob "Secret Missions DLC" for AotS just came out. For multiplayer, these are the only changes, but noteworthy:

> PHC Atlas - This anti-air, anti-drone frigate is an excellent line of defense against Drone Hives. Since it only costs metal and doesn’t require radioactives, the Atlas is a less powerful, but inexpensive, alternative to the Apollo cruiser.

Substrate Tormentor - This indirect fire frigate is capable of saturating an area with artillery shells, causing damage to anything in its radius of attack. Although it lacks accuracy and direct single target damage, the Tormentor is at its most powerful against groups of units rather than structures.

oh and 8 new maps which can be used in skirmish/multi

> Nashira - Enormous symmetrical 14 player map designed for standard 7v7 games

sweeeeet

$4 US right now, price jumps to $6 tomorrow

bwDraco

I need to get back to playing RTS games. Exercising my mind can only help me behave better.

Bob

@allquixotic I have enough trouble with too many unit options -_-

bwDraco

07:23

Perhaps we can play a match? I don't expect to have any chance of winning, but maybe you can help point out mistakes?

allquixotic

huh, 24% bus load and massive VRAM consumption spike (though low memory controller usage) as AotS starts up :P 50% VRAM gone off the bat, 25% of TDP

Bob

@allquixotic Negligible difference: techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GTX_980_PCI-Express_Scaling/…

Oh here's an updated one: techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/…

And here's one including AotS, but not quite as large a range: gamersnexus.net/guides/…

@bwDraco We don't play against each other; so far all our gaming has been strictly co-op

that said, I still prefer SoaSE... it feels like on the easier AIs there's not much opportunity for actually helping each other in AotS, and on the harder AIs we just ... die :P (cc @allquixotic, @JourneymanGeek)

allquixotic

Bob

oh crap I should probably go home

bwDraco

@allquixotic Try raising the power limit?

Bob

07:28

bbiab

allquixotic

Q: Does a GTX 1080 on a Micro ATX Z370M, where it can only get 8 lanes of PCIe 3.0 (due to the other x16 slot having an x8 RAID card in it), bottleneck on the PCIe bus?
A: No.

An unqualified, flat, definite No (as in, not ever) unless perhaps you're GPGPU'ing, but even then, you'll probably bottleneck on the CUDA cores first

bwDraco

You're clearly not saturating the bus.

allquixotic

forums.evga.com/…

bwDraco

VRel means you're hitting the maximum voltage. That's the card's natural limit. However, I'm seeing some degree of power limiting in your screenshot.

allquixotic

yeah it occasionally flashes up power as the limiting factor

bwDraco

07:32

Raising the power target will increase your performance. AotS uses more GPU resources than most games.

allquixotic

when I increased power max using MSI Afterburner with FFXV benchmark my score didn't change at all measurably

it was within measuring error of before

bwDraco

I have not seen the FFXV benchmark push my GTX 1080 Ti beyond 100% TDP on my card. AotS does cause more power usage on my card.

allquixotic

@bwDraco I was seeing 109% TDP in AotS regularly, with stock settings

and that's only 1080p

Bob

back

bwDraco

So... does playing these sorts of strategy games help you think better in your experience?

Bob

07:36

nup

they're fun

games are fun, not a chore

bwDraco

(see this research journal article for relevant info)

Bob

whoops, there goes my backup train

allquixotic

oh shit... how long is it gonna take you to get home now?

Bob

@allquixotic about 2 mins longer lol

not counting the leaving late and missing the first few, but today's a pretty normal day... no delays, cancellations, etc.

I think the one after is 15 mins though

allquixotic

at 1080p in a window. My framerate stability was fantastic, sitting around exactly 30 fps almost the entire time, and the benchmark is freaking beautiful and basically photorealistic

looks like they tuned the perf of that benchmark to hit 30 fps exactly on a GTX 1080 at 1080p

(on the most extreme quality preset, anyway)

VRel is the only reason I hit a perf bottleneck, constant bottlenecking on the GPU... 25-45% memory bandwidth utilization which is fine for GDDR5X, 0-1% PCIe bus utilization (just sending commands to manipulate the existing data in VRAM and shove it out to the display I guess)

Journeyman Geek

07:45

._.

allquixotic

99-100% GPU load entire time, 95-110% TDP

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic I thought there's practically almost always PCIe headroom

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek there is; I was just trying to confirm that experientially for my own system running at x8

Journeyman Geek

ah ;p

allquixotic

I think my Z370M is doing a bit better than the Z170M I had before, because I am still getting more PCIe lanes for my addon cards: previously I had x8 on the GPU and x4 on the RAID card; now I have x8 on the RAID card (not that I have enough SSDs to bottleneck x4 even)

gonna try 3440x1440 full screen in "game" mode for the visual experience. should be fun even at 30 fps with Gsync

Journeyman Geek

07:50

roomie is feeling a bit unwell

allquixotic

Oh. OH. 11-12 fps :(

also the motion blur is nauseating; turning that off

@JourneymanGeek :( hug him tight!

Journeyman Geek

I THINK something my parents fed him disagrees with him ._. . I keep telling him not to feed him people food.

@allquixotic gave him an extra walk + he's asleep on my foot

allquixotic

@bwDraco so that superposition benchmark is really cool... I turned the shader quality down from extreme to high, and it's perfectly within the wheelhouse of the GTX 1080 at 3440x1440... framerate stable in the 48-60 range, which looks fantastic on G-Sync and is good enough for interactive gaming

some of the effects they have are quite stunning, like erasing chalk on a blackboard with an eraser... looks really cool... and the gravity effects are amazing

bwDraco

Was wondering if I should get it (possibly the paid version)...

allquixotic

doing that stuff gave me mostly a "Pwr" perf limit reason though, even with a 10% increase in max power with Afterburner

bwDraco

07:56

This isn't really the time, though - I have work to do.

allquixotic

hehe, that Superposition benchmark (or if it becomes a game? yes please) feels like it will be a Volta Ti (1180 Ti?) game if you want solid 60 fps with their "extreme" shader preset + a resolution higher than 1080p... I really like how you get such predictable and stable FPS on it in nice round numbers, must be carefully optimized for that

it's pretty light on the CPU too, as mostly a pure GPU benchmark that isn't doing a whole lot of thinking, just pushing pixels

bwDraco

Are you planning to upgrade your graphics card to Volta?

allquixotic

@bwDraco as I've said before (you probably were away when I said it last) I'm realistically planning to grab the Volta base model, which might be something like GV104 if we follow part number trends... basically the GTX "1180" "Non-Ti"

it's a great balance between cost-effectiveness and perf, plus that card will land about 3-6 months before the Ti, so I'll still enjoy a short-lived reign as king

and hopefully the TDP will be more 1080-ish than Ti-ish

bwDraco

If I'm upgrading, it'll probably be GV100 or GV102. The card needs to be a meaningful improvement over my GTX 1080 Ti. I'm not replacing an $850 graphics card without a good justification.

allquixotic

I don't think my little Micro ATX case can dissipate a full 250-300W card's heat right next to that hot RAID card that runs at 90 C on a good day

bwDraco

08:01

@allquixotic Why isn't it actively cooled? It's supposed to have constant airflow.

Journeyman Geek

I think he means, its small and dosen't really have awesome airflow.

allquixotic

@bwDraco it's a single slot card with a small form factor square heatsink on the RAID-On-Chip processor, and it gets its cooling from the case; it's designed with the server mindset where individual chips don't have their own cooling (even GPUs; see Tesla cards) and you put aircraft turbine sounding fans on your case to provide huge positive airflow for all your hot components

my case has airflow, but not at the levels that would keep my 81605ZQ comfortable, so I can either (1) try to mod a fan on it (not comfortable without a guide) or (2) crank up the impeller RPM on my 1080 to provide a bit more cooling on the RAID card that's right next to it

bwDraco

I know how rackmount servers are cooled. I thought it would be a good idea to get one (or a few) at some point, but I don't think my parents will like the power usage or noise...

allquixotic

(2) drops the temps on the 81605ZQ from 105 C to 75 at idle and 90 C when doing significant I/O

bwDraco

(advanced soundproofing plus active noise cancellation would be necessary to keep noise levels within reason; this can cost tens of thousands)

allquixotic

08:05

I got the Micro ATX case so I could just lug it out of the house on short notice, like going on another extended business trip

it's light enough (26 lbs?) that I could just go "urgh!", pick it up and carry it outside to my car pretty comfortably with about 5 minutes notice

nearly broke my fingers/wrists carrying a full ATX tower on my last trip (lasted a full month)

damn thing was over 50 lbs

my arms aren't really the problem... I didn't have a great grip, ended up grabbing corners and stuff, and resting it on my stomach which was pretty painful

bwDraco

@allquixotic I'm... starting to seriously regret building a full tower with an EATX board.

allquixotic

I can pick up a 50 lb dumbell easily. I can't pick up a 50 lb awkward bulky case easily

@bwDraco why? unless you have any reasonable expectation of needing to move your rig on short notice, it's not a common use case

it's just possible enough for me that I made a compromise and went for it, but that's not to say everyone would need to

bwDraco

Heh.

allquixotic

if I needed even more mobility I'd get a 17" mobile workstation, but I'd be sacrificing a ton of performance (or at least some performance even in the best case) and paying a LOT more money for top-end performance vs. a desktop

so I have a 15.6" rig that's thin and light enough to hold, only a couple pounds, with a mobile 1060 and it's fine, in a pinch, for gaming on medium detail 1080p

Journeyman Geek

you build the box you need. Not the box @allquixotic needs. Unless you're @allquixotic, or are building it for him ;p

allquixotic

08:09

@JourneymanGeek basically :P

my strategy for "gaming continuity" is based on the duration I'll be out of my bedroom (lol)

bwDraco

As for rackmount servers at home... it would probably require extensive electrical upgrades and renovations as well, including the installation of a dedicated 240V circuit, an operation which would involve tearing down walls, as well as making massive modifications to the building layout to accommodate the server racks and HVAC system. This can easily go into six figures and possibly even seven figures.

Journeyman Geek

(that said, I might go for a smaller case next build)

allquixotic

if I'll be out for less than 1 day and completely or almost completely occupied the entire time, I'll just bring my smartphone and potentially my Macbook Pro in my leather bag

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco and what good would that do? ;p

djsmiley2k

@JourneymanGeek he isn't the only one :/

in other news.

Disneyland paris on friday :O

allquixotic

08:12

if I'll be out for a weekend trip or something where I have downtime at a hotel after daytime fun, I'll just take my Alienware 13R3 which will tide me over to continue to play my games albeit not at the best detail level ever (so what, it's a weekend)

Bob

heh. it's funny when people think 240 V is something special :P

allquixotic

if I'm going away for a month or more, and will be regularly idle in the evenings, I'll haul my desktop

bwDraco

I'm not sure if this is even legally possible because such a setup may not comply with residential building code.

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco why do you need a rack?

@Bob eh. *merica

allquixotic

@Bob I think, instead of 240V, most setups for stuff in US homes that needs more juice, just gets more juice (amperage), not higher voltages

our hungrier appliances get 20 to 30 amperes but still 110-120V

Journeyman Geek

08:14

@allquixotic I think we do 13 or 15A at the plug ;p

bwDraco

@allquixotic NEMA 5-20 sockets are sometimes found in kitchens. Electric dryers may use 220V (often NEMA 10-30).

Journeyman Geek

but but.

allquixotic

huh; didn't know that about dryers

Bob

10 A @ 230 V is standard here

Journeyman Geek

very few people need a full rack at home

Bob

08:15

then it goes 15 and 20 and higher, but iirc those need to be on a dedicated circuit

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek if anyone did, it'd be me, but even I can't justify that... what I would do if I wanted to drop all my dedi hosting stuff and go 100% off of FiOS (which I still don't trust to be reliable enough) is to get something like a Threadripper ATX tower and shove a bunch of disks, SSDs and maybe a Vega 64 in it for GPGPU workloads

Bob

if you're tearing down walls you're probably doing it wrong

allquixotic

and all that could run on a standard 15A socket

and then my room would be 90+ Fahrenheit year-round :/ our central cooling really doesn't help me much

Bob

any decent electrician should be able to run cables without ripping ripping everything apart

bwDraco

At that point... I might as well buy a plot of land and design and build my own house.

allquixotic

08:18

lol

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic hah. that's roughly what I'm pre-designing my next PC around

bwDraco

(and I may have to buy commercially-zoned land to do this - I'm not a millionaire!)

Journeyman Geek

if I wanted a home serverfarm I'd just buy a stack of cheap industrial PCs

allquixotic

if I were to get a new house in some far-flung future, I would ask for an upgraded HVAC to dissipate about 1-2 kW of extra heat coming from things in each of the upstairs rooms, so it isn't always miserable in the summer for desktop PC users

basically take the heat exchange ratings of the base model house and add 1-2 KW extra per room and give me an HVAC to match that new goal and increased ventilation

Bob

@allquixotic pretty easy solution, actually: per-room split systems

central air is ... bleh

bwDraco

08:23

More realistically...

Dec 22 '17 at 9:48, by bwDraco

When I move out... I might choose a LEED-certified building, possibly even a Passivhaus.

allquixotic

also, server racks always belong in the basement where it's naturally cooler anyway

@Bob the best system imo is multi zone central air with independent per room control, rather than having a separate heater/cooler in each room

keeps the noise down in the rooms :P

Bob

@allquixotic eh, split system indoor units are very quiet

allquixotic

@bwDraco while we're dreaming, my dream would be a Tesla solar roof, a Tesla Model S and a PowerWall :P

bwDraco

(previous discussion about Astaroth's power consumption and heat output should make it clear why I want an energy-efficient house)

djsmiley2k

While we're dreaming, I would like to sleep

bwDraco

08:25

FWIW, NY has incentives for energy-efficient housing.

allquixotic

realistically, energy-consuming geeks like us should live in the coldest possible climate so that our electronics hardware helps heat the house rather than making the cooling system's work harder

Bob

you can still have a single outdoor unit if you really wanted

just run the coolant pipes to multiple indoor

IMO better than ducting air around

multi-head, that's the name => mitsubishielectric.com.au/…

allquixotic

I need to find a place on earth with the best tradeoff between the amount of solar they get and the climate (cold as possible)

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic my old military quarters had the air conditioner compressors for the office airconditioners in a drying room...

if you could just pump in all the computer heat where its needed

allquixotic

@Bob pretty cool idea

get it? haha

Journeyman Geek

08:27

@allquixotic wait, those are not a thing there?

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek heck no! maybe on special purpose buildings or something, but in terms of standard residences? nope, regardless of age

Journeyman Geek

._.

those are kinda standard here. Those or window units

allquixotic

old, new, doesn't matter, that's just not how it's done in the US

Bob

split systems are typical here

multi-head is rarer but exists

Journeyman Geek

... culture shock.

allquixotic

08:28

we have centralized compressor and heat exchanger on a concrete pad outside the structure and duct air through the building

Bob

no one has room for ducted lol

pretty sure split is higher efficiency than ducted too

and has much better per-room control

Journeyman Geek

yup

and is fairly quick/easy to install

Bob

ducted you would see in office buildings and larger supermarkets

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek window units are standard for apartments and most hotels here, but are seen as a terrible eyesore, and somewhat rare on "upscale" houses (they certainly wouldn't be installed by default)

Bob

@allquixotic window units are terrible and can't be compared to split at all

bwDraco

08:30

We have ducted HVAC here.

Bob

like, window vs split is possibly more different than ducted vs split

allquixotic

well IMO what we have here (single zone central HVAC) is the worst, because it gets really hot upstairs and really cold downstairs pretty much year round

Bob

@allquixotic multi-head split avoids that by design

ducted you'd need to install individual controls + some way of restricting airflow

multi-head does that by default

allquixotic

it's 25 F outside and 74 F in my room, which is comfortable, but if the outside ambient air temp is about 38 F or higher, it's probably 80+ in my room unless my desktop is off

oh and I have the heat vent in my room blocked off as much as possible with a heavy duty magnetic sticker (laminated with some kind of 3M film and with a flexible metal back) so heat basically doesn't come into my room from the HVAC unless I open my door, but the heat dissipation of my electronics is enough to keep my room hot

in summer I open the vent as much as possible to allow every last bit of cool air in and it's still roasting 85 F up here

Journeyman Geek

... dude, you really need to find some place with split aircon ;p

djsmiley2k

08:34

we have rain here.

Journeyman Geek

cause that's totally where it helps

bwDraco

@allquixotic Try running the air handler fan continuously.

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek I live at home and can't move due to economics (debt + low income + high cost of living + high discretionary spending)

bwDraco

Jul 20 '17 at 0:39, by bwDraco

The other part of the issue is that my bedroom faces west so it gets lots of heat from the sun, and that it traps heat and is inadequately cooled by the house's HVAC system. Part of the renovations involves replacing carpeting with hardwood flooring, which should alleviate these issues a bit as carpet tends to trap heat. My room will also be rearranged so that the bed doesn't block the only HVAC register in this room.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic not move out. Would install for you ;p

is it a tropics thing? Makes sense if its a tropics thing.

allquixotic

08:36

to move, I'd have to completely change my lifestyle re: electronics, cancel alllll my subscriptions and servers, sell alllll my hardware to pay off debt, downgrade to a single LG Gram laptop with no desktop and use it for 10 years, never buy another game, DLC or in-game currency...

oh and go from a 2015 car to a 1996 beater that will break down on me 32 times a year

Journeyman Geek

nu nu

not said move out. ;p

bwDraco

@JourneymanGeek Baltimore, Maryland.

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco I actually know where he lives ;p

allquixotic

MD is considered "sub-tropical" according to climatologists now

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic doggone climate change.

allquixotic

08:38

I think it changed sometime in the 20th or 21st century due to global climate change

it used to be "temperate"

Journeyman Geek

it just gets hotter and wetter.

allquixotic

Humid subtropical climate

A humid subtropical climate is a zone of climate characterized by hot and humid summers, and mild winters. These climates normally lie on the southeast side of all continents, generally between latitudes 25° and 35° and are located poleward from adjacent tropical climates. While many subtropical climates tend to be located at or near coastal locations, in some cases they extend inland, most notably in China and the United States. Under the Köppen climate classification, Cfa and Cwa climates are either described as humid subtropical climates or mild temperate climates. This climate features mean...

In theory the humidity in the air is high enough here in the summertime that using a "swamp cooler" (extremely, extremely efficient) would be a viable way of providing A/C, but I don't think it's sustainable unless you have a constant influx of fresh outside air, ... which is going to be hot

if you just circulate your inside air all the time with a swamp cooler, it will suck the humidity out of the air, and then you stop getting cooled off

swamp cooler is basically: take hot, humid air, dehumidify it, and it comes out magically cooler (and dryer) air, which is more comfortable

the thermodynamics of it make it way more efficient than a traditional heat exchanger that heats up a fluid to like 200 C (or is it 200 F?) in exchange for lowering the temperature on the other side to about 60 F - those don't really do too much in the way of humidity, and can cool off air that's already dry

Journeyman Geek

and you aren't raising the humidity

(much)

and quite a lot of varients let you use a block or bag of ice for an initial hit of cold.

allquixotic

> Direct evaporative cooling (open circuit) is used to lower the temperature and increase the humidity of air by using latent heat of evaporation, changing liquid water to water vapor. In this process, the energy in the air does not change. Warm dry air is changed to cool moist air. The heat of the outside air is used to evaporate water.

oh. I got it backwards

a swamp cooler would be pretty useless here, because the outside air humidity during hot months is usually 80% and above, if not basically saturated (100%) 24/7 some months

Journeyman Geek

what about one of those portable air conditioners?

not very efficient, but would let you push in more cold air into a room, and dump hot air out the window

or even a casement unit.

allquixotic

08:52

@JourneymanGeek I have one of those. In the heat of last summer, in my office, I connected the exhaust heat hose to a plastic blocker and put some weather stripping around it and connected it to my partially open window, and it was able to provide temporary relief, although it was pretty inefficient, and other than the air blowing right on me, the room stayed stupendously hot still

rahuldottech

@JourneymanGeek A windows AV, perhaps?

allquixotic

like, it was blowing cold air on me but the rest of the room was still bad

the weather stripping job wasn't very good, which was half the problem, and the other half is all the hot components in the A/C unit radiating their heat into the room

bwDraco

I'm working on photos contrary to my father's orders to go to bed. I will not go to bed until I'm finished.

IDGAF about my father's pessimistic assumptions about my behavior.

djsmiley2k

that's not the same responsible @bwDraco we know

as I tell everyone who lives with parents, their house, their rules.

bwDraco

Father disconnected the home Internet connection but I decided to continue by tethering from my phone, something I do not take lightly.

Because I'm getting sick and tired of Father saying "you can't do this".

Even if it would get me evicted.

allquixotic

09:04

careful man

!!tell bwDraco sleep

ChatBot John Cavil

@allquixotic Command sleep does not exist. Did you mean: rsleep, rweep (note that /tell works on commands, it's not an echo.)

allquixotic

!!rsleep

ChatBot John Cavil

Bob

@allquixotic mine support two connections so it works fine :P

djsmiley2k

@bwDraco ... but it's his house, his rules.

you go on yesterday about respecting your parents, not asking for somethiing you shouldn't ask for

Bob

09:12

@djsmiley2k that's not a particularly great reason to be unreasonable, though

djsmiley2k

@Bob I don't know the whole situation to decide if anyone is being unreasonable

Bob

just have to fame it more positively... "I believe I am mature enough to maintain my own sleep schedule ..." (though, of course, that depends a lot on what they're like and past interactions, idk)

@djsmiley2k "their house, their rules" is a rather absolute statement

djsmiley2k

@Bob It is, but until you've calmly decided something else, it stands

bwDraco

The dispute was over noise made while my parents were sleeping. My father refused to believe that I could work quietly. I decided to ignore the order to stop work and go to bed because it was made on the pessimistic and false belief that I was not capable of working quietly.

Bob

@djsmiley2k the way its phrased discourages even arguing otherwise

djsmiley2k

09:16

@Bob Has arguing, in a heated moment, ever worked for anyone ?

Bob

like... "their house, their rules, no discussion allowed" is the logical interpretation

rahuldottech

i was playing. tug of war. with the human. and they scratched my ear. this distraction. was my downfall. and should be. against the law

Tweeted by dog_feelings on December 28, 2017 at 12:54 AM

Bob

@djsmiley2k I don't think heated moment was implied there...

djsmiley2k

@Bob Maybe I read too much into it

bwDraco

It's rare for me to make a conscious decision to explicitly ignore orders.

rahuldottech

09:17

This recap of 2017's best good dogs is melting hearts

@JourneymanGeek

djsmiley2k

Moscow has the most snow it's had in 100 years o_O

tbh looking at the video it doesn't look like that much.

Burgi

morning

no snow in manchester despite the news claiming there would be apocalyptic levels of snow

djsmiley2k

09:41

yeah just bloody freezin here

tho i'm also got a cold and it's making me feel cold and gaaaaaaaaaaaah

Burgi

didn't you just get over a cold?

bertieb

o/

We had snow up here

Burgi

meh, scotland is a frozen wasteland anyway

bertieb

Politifact says: mostly true!

As an intersection, Randall came to this great frozen wasteland to do a talk; it was quite fun

I think he's the second author I've met at a book-type event

I'd love if he would do more 'What Ifs' tho

Burgi

agreed

bertieb

09:56

Unrelatedly, is SE chat data available via SEDE?

(if it is, my SEDE-fu is weak and I can't find it)

djsmiley2k

@Burgi that was proper flu

this is just a major annoyance so far

If I hadn't been off before, I'd go home now :/

the wonders of using algorithms to figure out who's off too much eh?

user226528

SEDE means "headquarters". Also it it the EU preliminary committee for security.

bertieb

@djsmiley2k Ooh, Bradford factor? I think that came up in a Workplace HNQ recently

I guess based on this QA, no API means no SEDE access

djsmiley2k

@bertieb Yeah I replied on that question I think

Burgi

10:13

@FleetCommand Stack Exchange Data Explorer

user226528

O.o

user226528

Mathematics is the #2 Stack Exchange website!

Burgi

THE SNOW! IT HAS ARRIVED!

user226528

Great! :)

user226528

... unless you are referring to Jon Snow. Not that I know exactly who he is. But I hear he is bad news.

djsmiley2k

10:31

@bertieb the stupid thing is, it in no way looks at your personal situation

bertieb

Sadly, I suspect that's the point

A 'neutral' 'unbiased' way to appraise someone's absences

And if it's unfavourable to the employee? Whelp, that's just the formula

djsmiley2k

nod.

djsmiley2k

12:02

omfg so tired

almost falling asleep

djsmiley2k

12:43

@Burgi u ded mon?

Burgi

nah, its turning to rain

djsmiley2k

12:56

hmmm

i'm finally warming up, sat here in my coat :/

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