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12:01 AM
... excluding the costs. Someone has to pay for the upkeep of the lines, those should be minimal
 
for a long time in the uk your ISP was 'BT or Bust'
then it was 'You can choose anyone, but it's still coming via BT'
eventually the goverment broke up what they had handed BT and it's a lot fairer now
 
Well atleast that is what the big ISPs are trying to do in the US anyway. I don't know much about BT, but you are saying they broke it up to other smaller companies?
 
12:31 AM
@El8tedN8te no, they were an effective Monopoly
They also owned most of the lines to homes.
I mean if you were big enough you could do this...
 
@djsmiley2k @JourneymanGeek, I was referring to this line where he said they broke up the lines.
 
Bob
@djsmiley2k Telstra (when it was privatised) was forced to sell access to its copper at gov-set rates. Which is actually pretty fair, as far as competition goes.
Makes it easier for small ISPs to start up when you don't have to build your own last mile.
That said, it didn't exactly help the aging network situation... not much incentive to upgrade the physical network.
 
@Bob A monopoly would not have incentive to upgrade their lines, but when the copper lines are at market then there is incentive. Are you saying this was not the case?
 
Bob
1:01 AM
@El8tedN8te We're apparently trying to treat network access as a proper utility. More recently, see nbn - which has its own pile of issues, but the original idea was sound.
Basically, the physical distribution should be independent of the company that provides the service. And all companies should have equal access to the physical network.
Think electricity, water, ...
... granted, I don't think that's actually the case with water here at the moment
As a practical matter, it does make sense that the physical network is one uniform thing rather than a mess of bits and pieces from different providers.
But that makes upgrading the network much harder too.
 
nn all
 
Some competitive market has to exist somewhere so that proper and well maintained lines can be used effectively. If everything was monopolized or put in the hands of the government, the maintenance of those lines would drastically decrease (you don't see the govt installing electrical lines, that's the distributor's role), the lines would quickly become outdated for internet need and prices would not matter. Incentive has to exist to keep the lines maintained.
@Bob I'd agree it would have to be like a utility in a sense like electricity.
 
Bob
1:24 AM
@El8tedN8te That's from a purely laissez-faire point of view.
That a government will do nothing to improve infrastructure while private companies will.
IMO, that's not an obvious conclusion at all.
In fact, looking at history, you might say the exact opposite has happened in many cases.
Thing is, infrastructure improvements require a huge capital investment.
 
Yeah, the government may very well take good care of it. It's just that it is never been done in most capital-socialist societies (like the US or many in Europe) to assume the entire control of the internet.
 
Bob
That's a lot of risk for a private company.
@El8tedN8te It's not about control.
 
It is very well possible that putting the internet and lines in the hands of the government may work well...
 
Bob
@El8tedN8te Also, think about what you're saying. You were arguing for net neutrality earlier, no?
Net neutrality is the government stepping in.
The very idea that net neutrality is considered an issue tells you that the ISPs involved cannot be trusted, by a fairly large subset of the population, to put society over (short-term?) profits.
 
@Bob Yes I'd agree, the government should have complete oversight in direction while it is controlled directly by a party that wants to improve it state. Whether or not the government is capable of that is up in opinion
@Bob A party with complete itself will only cause mishap. That is why a net neutrality check is absolutely necessary in my opinion.
It doesn't matter who has physical control of the lines as long as they intend to maintain and keep up with modern technologies to meet with societal demands, in my opinion.
@Bob Do I seem less contradicting now?
 
1:35 AM
You see, it's not all black and white. Net neutrality is great, but there are technological constraints involved (especially with cellular networks). Look at the performance issues Verizon and AT&T ran into once they launched unlimited data plans.
Aug 3 at 17:04, by bwDraco
> The most likely explanation for this sudden drop in average speeds compared to peak speeds is that Verizon’s network is experiencing more congestion due to its new unlimited plans. By opening up the data spigot, customers start consuming more data more often, forcing them to vie against one another for more capacity on each cell site. The more data demand there is on a network, the more average speeds will drop, regardless of the network’s technological capabilities.
 
Bob
@El8tedN8te Also, funny thing about that, IIRC the US government gave Verizon (et al.?) a rather large monetary incentive to install FTTP. Which lead to them ... not doing as they'd promised. You can ask @allquixotic about that :P
 
With wireline, however, there's not much of a reason to discriminate.
 
@El8tedN8te What I said here was bit of a jump, saying exactly the government could be incompetent.
 
Bob
@bwDraco Then you're not capable of actually selling unlimited, and should stop doing so.
Throttling based on the type of data transmitted is not the solution.
 
Also, we must be careful here: if any discrimination is to be done, it must be based on broad classes of traffic, not on the service provider. No streaming service provider should be at an advantage or disadvantage.
 
Bob
1:36 AM
@bwDraco That's a step better than looking at the specific destination, but it's also technically impossible.
There's no way to tell for sure what any given encrypted stream is.
You can use heuristics and maybe guess right, with a fair bit of risk.
Unless the idea is to downrate all encryption, which is an even bigger no-no.
 
Yeah, that's the really hard part. T-Mobile, in my experience, has not had any serious discrimination issues with the 480p (1.5 Mbps) limit for streaming video. (My plan allows high-bitrate HD video but I haven't enabled it in the interest of trying to stay within 2 GB for KickBack rebates.)
 
Bob
@bwDraco And how do they know what is video?
Oh, oh, by looking at the service provider!
 
Right now, telcos try to remain neutral in this regard, but the regulatory framework we have doesn't really enforce that.
Yeah. It's a hard problem.
 
@Bob Such an assumption by them is incorrect, but statistically to the website it is correct.
@Bob Very interesting. Never thought about that before now about how they knew
 
Bob
@El8tedN8te You can possibly analyse traffic patterns, but doing so on the fly is quite expensive.
 
1:43 AM
@Bob, well they could sneak it into their EULA.
 
Bob
You can probably look at headers if it's unencrypted, but that's a lot of assumptions and can't be guaranteed.
And these days most of it is encrypted. So you can't een do that much.
@El8tedN8te What EULA? We're talking about the carrier here.
 
@Bob What? The packet header or protocol headercan't be encrypted? you mean a sub-header to the actual data?header
@Bob I mean the Privacy and Terms agreement with the carrier... I am not quite sure how that works however.
 
Aug 23 at 3:15, by bwDraco
How on Earth can Verizon make this claim when these new plans clearly indicate that they do not have the data capacity to support it?
(see context; claim is "best network")
Verizon no longer offers video streaming at higher than 720p on phones or 1080p on tablets and PCs, not even as a paid option.
Why? Most likely because Verizon is trying to correct the speed regression it's been experiencing since March.
 
Bob
@El8tedN8te I mean if the stream is unencrypted you can possibly try to detect that it's a stream.
@bwDraco That's not a given conclusion.
In fact, that's a fairly pointless conclusion.
What is "the data capacity to support it"?
 
Data capacity per customer to support said claim of "the best network".
 
Bob
1:52 AM
No ISP in the world has the 'capacity' to handle every single one of their customers at full utilisation at the same time.
"best network" is marketing
all marketing speak is useless and should be ignored
I don't care what company it comes from
Anyway. An acceptable solution, and one commonly used by hosting ISPs actually, and also used by Verizon in the past: some quota of 'normal' data, and then unlimited deprioritised data.
There, done.
 
That's precisely what everyone has been doing.
 
Bob
Then none of this should be an issue at all.
 
@Bob OTOH, with servers, those that guarantee you will always get a pipe that you can fully utilize 24/7 (i.e., their network and their immediate peering partners will never be so saturated that your promised throughput isn't available) just set their prices high enough that they can't oversell their capacity
they can predict ahead of time how much bandwidth they need by the amount of floorspace they have
 
Bob
@allquixotic That's when you start paying per-Mbps
 
T-Mobile's soft cap is at 32 GB. Verizon and AT&T top out at 22 GB. Sprint deprioritizes at 23 GB.
Speeds are generally not degraded unless the tower is congested.
 
Bob
1:59 AM
@allquixotic I'm having trouble finding the name for it, but you pay depending on your 90% max usage ... and each Mbps is incredibly expensive
 
(tethering right now due to my HFC connection having suddenly stopped working)
 
Bob
Transit. You pay for transit. That's the word.
 
Yup.
Transit pricing, in $/Mbps.
 
Bob
Committed data rate.
In a Frame Relay network, committed information rate (CIR) is the bandwidth for a virtual circuit guaranteed by an internet service provider to work under normal conditions. Committed data rate (CDR) is the payload portion of the CIR. At any given time, the available bandwidth should not fall below this committed figure. The bandwidth is usually expressed in kilobits per second (kbit/s). Above the CIR, an allowance of burstable bandwidth is often given, whose value can be expressed in terms of additional rate, known as the excess information rate (EIR), or as its absolute value, peak information...
 
...we're back to normal. This doesn't happen often.
 
Bob
2:03 AM
It's something like $2/Mbps in LA, and $18/Mbps in Sydney :\
But even at $2/Mbps that's $200 for a guaranteed 100Mbps
 
@bwDraco How is it normal if it doesn't happen often???
 
@El8tedN8te I was talking about our cable Internet drop.
 
Bob
Most hosts, dedi providers, colos, etc., will give you a 100Mbps port or even a 1Gbit port but you aren't getting any specific transit guarantee.
 
@bwDraco ik, i was joking
 
Spectrum cable Internet service is generally very stable, but we do get occasional drops.
lol
 
Bob
2:06 AM
@allquixotic Which costs far more than many server operators are willing to pay, let alone home users :P
he bigger ones have their own peering arrangements though, so they can offer more for cheaper.
 
We're talking, like, $10/Mbps.
 
Bob
@bwDraco Nah, not in the US or most of Europe.
In APAC, sure. Actually, try double that :P
Actually, it might be below $1/Mbps now
 
Well, I think you're right. It's somewhere around $0.50/Mbps these days.
 
Bob
@bwDraco If you buy enough at once, yea
At $50/100Mbps that's actually ... I'd pay that, easy.
Except in Sydney it's still probably 10x that.
Apparently nbn CVC charges are something like $15/Mbps, and that's before it even reaches the ISP network (where they have to connect to the wider internet)
So currently ISPs are only buying something like 1-3Mbps per user (per 12/1 service)
@JourneymanGeek I wonder if Dell's updated their P2715Q yet
UP2718Q? That's UltraSharp and $2k though
ah, the U2718Q looks like the direct replacement. $1k
 
2:53 AM
@DavidPostill Thing is... they don't remain babies for very long... :P
 
@rahuldottech, yay your back on.
 
@El8tedN8te Hi!
I'm at school right now
Have like 10 minutes till classes start...
 
Ahh, what classes are you taking rn?
 
@El8tedN8te System is very different here
We aren't given much choice to choose subjects, only the stream
In science, PCM is compulsory
And for the fourth subject you choose between CSc and Bio
 
Mhmmm. So what are you learning right now or about to learn when class starts?
 
2:58 AM
@El8tedN8te Maths
Inequalities and stuff
 
applied in functions?
on the coordinate plane?
 
@El8tedN8te No idea, tbh. Haven't started yet
But equations, I think
Also, coordinate plane
 
Ah. Just checking out the chat to see what is up?
 
@El8tedN8te Yeah
 
3:29 AM
@Bob lol. Not been looking at hardware lately
 
Bob
3:55 AM
I ran reboot and a VPS went down :(
 
oops?
2
 
Bob
oops.
2
 
4:23 AM
@Bob looks about right - same price and new shiny feature set.
Dell didn't do monitors Online here last I checked
 
4:35 AM
my first FiOS outage... lasted all of 10 minutes
the FTTP was working, as I still had TV, but no internet for a while
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek O_O they've done that for over a decade
maybe different in Sg
 
@Bob they did when I got mine
Now it's all call for price
 
Bob
5:12 AM
odd
 
Bob
5:27 AM
turns out it's really hard to concentrate with a crying baby in the office
 
Bob
5:44 AM
> If your program still has a bug, obtain a rubber duck. Or if a rubber duck is unavailable, get another computer science undergraduate, it’s much the same.
 
Bob
5:55 AM
@JourneymanGeek Norwegian Lovesong - Leaves' Eyes (music)
(I don't have emoji on this keyboard :P)
 
6:24 AM
@JourneymanGeek Oddly enough my new dress code doesn't mention sleeve length at all ...
 
Bob
7:00 AM
TIL we have a bus museum
 
7:26 AM
@DavidPostill eh, I feel this is just a power-trip
I'm also debating switching to aibobot at work
 
7:44 AM
(well and quitting)
@DavidPostill nor did mine.
 
8:30 AM
@Bob Try having two in your bedroom... Really difficult to do anything. :|
 
@Bob MCA, ISA. PCI, PCIe.... ;p
My mind's not really on work
until it is.
 
8:54 AM
I got into a physical fight in school just now :(
It wasn't my fault, and there were witnesses so I'm not in any trouble
But I'd rather have avoided the whole thing
@JourneymanGeek ow. Got something else planned?
 
@rahuldottech not yet no
 
@JourneymanGeek shouldn't you hold on till you do?
I think writing SE an email about getting hired as a CM is probably worth a shot
That's what you wanted to do, right?
 
@rahuldottech What was the fight about? If you do not mind my asking.
@rahuldottech What is a CM? Not quite in tune with the abbreviations on SE.
 
Community Manager
 
@rahuldottech I might get fired.
 
9:08 AM
Aaah
@JourneymanGeek porque? why?
 
@El8tedN8te currently having major issues with my director. Lots of minor things impacting my general quality of work life.
 
Enough said.
That's unfortunate.
 
@El8tedN8te I went over to this friend of mine to discuss something about the computer club
He was with a friend of his, and apparently this fella has never liked me for whatever reason, but I've hardly ever spoken with him
So he decides to act cool (he's a part of this group of bullies) and he pushes me to the ground randomly.
This caught me super off guard, so I kinda get pissed since I don't been know the guy
 
@rahuldottech I'm debating that
I'd like to be in a slightly better frame of mind tho
 
@rahuldottech Were you hurt at all?
 
9:13 AM
So I get up and run to him and uh, kinda slam him (not very hard) on the bus parked right behind him
@El8tedN8te yeah, got a pretty bad cut
Anyway apparently a few teachers saw it as well as a lot of students, so I didn't get into any trouble since I didn't start any of it
Yeah, that happened
The other fella wasn't hurt at all except that his glasses kinda flew off (they didn't break, neither did mine, luckily)
 
@rahuldottech That was fortunate that you didn't get in trouble. The bully thing is always complicated, hope he starts looking at things more abstractly to figure out that his actions are morally wrong.
 
@El8tedN8te eh. Or they go from physical bullying to... Management
 
That would be good as well.
 
Not sure about that :p
 
@El8tedN8te this fella is friends with a few people who tend to cuss at me a lot. I don't know why they do so, but apparently it's because I don't react back. I think that's what made this guy think it was okay to hit me
 
9:22 AM
If it is ever right to hit someone....
 
Well the problem with violence is the only response is to escalate.
 
Just break into his house and cut his throat while he's asleep
 
Ummmm no.
 
@OliverSalzburg tempting, but nah...
 
9:25 AM
Just an idea
 
Look
If you attack back, it'll turn into a small battle
That's not worth it
If you don't defend though, he'll also continue
So… stay alert, be ready to defend yourself, don't hurt unless necessary.
 
Do you speak from experience @Avery?
 
If you're bullied, it will continue until you make the bully realize that other targets are more fun to bully than you :P
 
Bullies lack self-esteem, they feel like the need to bully or belittle others so they have the pleasure of feeling like they are better than someone to gain self-worth, just like racism. My opinion anyway.
 
Yes. And it's perfectly normal for young men to try and find their place in the hierarchy by means of dominating others :P
You don't let people fuck with you if you can do something about it. Not in school or any other time in life
And it's actually a lot easier to handle bullies in school than any later time in life
 
9:33 AM
@OliverSalzburg o_O Never heard of anyone saying that before.
@OliverSalzburg I'd agree.
 
@El8tedN8te i've been bullied for most of my life
I know what increases intensity and what stops it
 
Tis a sad truth about this world.
 
If you go and report, they'll call you a snitch
But if you make a dent on them, they'll fly to administration and report you
Double standards.
 
9:48 AM
Just photoshop his face onto some porn images, hi-jack his mobile number and send the image to half the school. Or continuously order those used panties from Japan to his dad's address until the entire family breaks apart
You know, good old fun
 
That's quite sadistic
 
@El8tedN8te some just like to hurt others. Just simply that.
 
I'd somewhat disagree, there is always a psychiatric reason for any action the mind decides to do or why someone likes to do something.
 
@Avery lol some times yes
but once in sc hool, there was a guy abusing me
i kicked him in the balls, wearing my dads steel toe caps
after that, he had respect for me, and it was 'ok'
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek :S
 
10:04 AM
@JourneymanGeek are you finally finding out why everything is awesome there?
 
@djsmiley2k I'm figuring out why we have very few people who work there for more than a year
 
Police said an unknown “haze” coming from the sea had left people along the coast from Eastbourne to Birling Gap requiring assistance. They warned people in the area to keep doors and windows closed.
@JourneymanGeek yeah
Sucks
 
10:47 AM
 
11:00 AM
Hello
 
11:46 AM
i'm in compmgmt.msc I right clicked a user to set a password, i'm logged in as the default administrator, and I got this error. i.imgur.com/zO4a2k1.png
"error occurred while attempting to set the password" "the system is not authoritative for the specified account"
 
12:31 PM
wtf 1 GB?
And here I'm wondering why Windows Update takes so long to complete
 
@OliverSalzburg I wonder why drivers are 300-400Mb in sizer
when I enable them in the linux kernel, and they turn out to be 500k....
 
Even with i18n and whatnot, I'm having a hard time figuring out what constitutes a 1 GB OS patch, within one month :P
 
Bob
@djsmiley2k most drivers aren't.
graphics drivers are a bit of an exception, but they're highly complex and also contain a lot of game-specific optimisations
e.g. the linux nvidia drivers are 77 MB binaries
 
1:21 PM
@DavidPostill I hate shirts like this
@DavidPostill I don't think I've ever worked at a place that even had a dress code.
 
Bob
@ThatREDACTEDGuy maybe not formalised, but there's usually some kind of expectation
not many places would be happy with you showing up in speedos :P
speaking of, I should check if we have a dress code sometime
 
Ok, I've never worked at a place that had an explicitly set dresscode.
I usually wear like the "casual" example above.
On the hottest days of summer, I wear like the "streetwear" example but with casual shirts.
(By the way, suit-and-tie are informal? WHERE?!)
@Bob What if I had a side job as a stripper?
PAY ME OR I UNDRESS!
 
Bob
@ThatREDACTEDGuy I'd like to see their definition of formal...
 
@Bob Something like this?
 
Lol. People keep commenting I look stressed in sleeves
 
1:31 PM
Are you allergic to mangos?
 
yesterday, by That REDACTED Guy
Mango => Manga
yesterday, by That REDACTED Guy
Shirt sleeve => Manga
 
@JourneymanGeek OH MY GOD LOL
 
Or Brazilian Spanish
 
1:33 PM
O CÃO CHUPANDO MANGA
LOL
> What comes to your mind when you hear “the dog sucking on the mango” which is literal translation of the phrase?
> Sounds weird, right? But not for Brazilians. “O cão chupando manga” is one of Brazilian Portuguese Spanish expressions which has several meanings.
> Imagine if it is not a person but the devil? (“Cão” can be translated in English as a “dog” or “devil”). Quite an unpleasant picture. And here we are – we came to the meaning of the expression: “something or somebody very ugly”.
> Another meaning is completely the opposite and is used to say that the person is very good in something, very intelligent and skillful. Indeed to eat mango elegantly you need some special skill.
> Also can be used to express that the task is extremely difficult.
1 message moved to trash
@ThatREDACTEDGuy ...that joke only works in Brazilian Spanish. Duh.
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek I sense a story behind that description edit
 
@Bob some well meaning idiot somewhere was like "But HE COULD HAVE CHOKED"
Can't remember if it was a comment or IRC or FB, was a very long time ago
 
Bob
1:51 PM
lol
 
2:22 PM
An abridged list of actual HOLY SHIT TERRIFYING error messages from an early word processor (WPS) from 1976. https://t.co/Ia3QQ0VQNa
@Bob That was 9 years ago, so clearly we did something right ;p
 
Bob
2:41 PM
@JourneymanGeek tl;dr: data loss
:P
 
Bob
3:24 PM
idk why, but a question asking people to 'do the needful' always feels like they're demanding an answer
 
> Master Processor Overload
WTF.
 
probably a translation issue :D
 
3:48 PM
I've seen my first wild "do the needful".
0
Q: Restriction of GUI applications

user765743I want to restrict to users in ubuntu-14.04 to close and open in gui applications, Like;Firefox, Softphone (Twinkle) Etc, If it is opening or close it should ask root password. Kindly help me out from this and do the needful.

 
4:39 PM
0
Q: Does Windows 10 have "Program Files" and "Program Files (x86)" folders?

Daniel WilliamsI have not installed Windows 10 yet, but I am curious if Microsoft has finally gotten rid of folders with spaces in their names, and if they have gotten rid of the split between x86 and 64-bit folders. Do these two separate folders still exist in Windows 10?

^^ This question should be protected. We have had a user submit a question as an answer, and another one, who answered that question
Neither answer actually answers the author's question.
 
@Ramhound Done. Flagged and voted to delete two answers.
 
:-)
 
@music2myear This might be doable with SELinux...
Got an appointment, so BRB.
 
@ThatREDACTEDGuy I still find it Hilarious how sexist dress codes are.
 
5:01 PM
My home ADSL is down so I'm piggibacking the open wifi from across the street to all my devices.
Open wifi -> Laptop -> VPN -> Ethernet -> AP -> All my devices
 
No cellular data?
 
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
I pay $10 per GB. And that's a 10x cheaper promo.
 
Yikes. Prepaid?
 
Yeah. Last time I checked, post-paid plans were somewhat less worse, but not interesting to my profile (very data intensive, sporadic voice use).
 
5:27 PM
Postpaid is much better
 
Meh. The "public" wifi network from across the street (wich I'm using legally, it's provided by my ISP and accepts my phone number as a username) kicks me if I use too much data.
And its speed seems to range from 128 kbps to 2 mbps
 
LEI
5:43 PM
Hello, is this one the right SE to do a comparison of Windows 7 and 10 (pros/cons for gaming and more)? Or should I head to Arqade to ask about "game-specific hardware and utilities"?
 
@LEI The way I see it, it's a bit of an overlap, but the wording of the question and the focus of the answer could vary a lot from one site to another
 
LEI
@ThatREDACTEDGuy I might do it here since my requirements are broader than just gaming thx
 
6:06 PM
sigh
seems VM updated their torrent site blocking -_-
oh there we go, got around it hahah
such efficent blocking.
 
Who's VM?
 
Virgin Media
 
@djsmiley2k this is good for getting around torrent site blocks: ipt-browser.com
 
6:28 PM
yeah errr linux :P
ii got tunnelbear
once i got the magnet url, I'm fine
 
tunnelbear is baaaaaaaad
I don't like them
bur yeah iirc that runs with wine
 
it's free, it works...
Annnnd done ;D
 
> baaaaaaaad
lol
aaaaaaaa
 
GHawwwg damn i'm having a hard time of everything atm
I litterally have no care about anything right now
 
6:57 PM
Somebody just managed to steal some merchandise at the local convenience store I was shopping in :/
First time I've seen shoplifting happen IRL.
*facepalm*
 
7:11 PM
not sure what the facepalm is
but crims be everywhere
 
@djsmiley2k Somebody stole the air between his face and his hand.
 
@MetaEd I, what?
;D
 
this is a facepalm
 
yas
 
oh
I misread
I thought you meant "what is a facepalm" and not "what is the facepalm for"
 
7:38 PM
@lei - Neither Superuser or Arcade would be appropriate for a question seeking a comparison between Windows 7 and Windows 10.
Besides those comparisons already exist just not on any SE website.
Although there might actually be a few questions that attempted to do that on Superuser. I just know a comparison like that would be highly opinionated.
 
yeah it'd be closed on Arqade
If you're going to ask me, go with windows 10.
It will be supported for longer than windows 7
after support ends you might get games that don't support it (in fact we already have those, the games that run only on DX12) or not get GPU driver updates, which might leave you with a lower performance in comparison to newest version
Your best chance to ask that is here (this chatroom) or arqade's main room, though game talk is banned there.
 
The disadvantages and advantages of Windows 7 and Windows 10 are well documented. I caution you that to many an advantage of Windows 10 might be a disadvantage which is the reason that type of question isn't out of scope at Superuser.
 
(actually it's not banned but it's an old meme that's still repeated quite often so)
 
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