Root Access

Bob

08:00

@JourneymanGeek I dunno... on one hand, you don't really need yearly releases (as far as processing power goes, anyway... peripherals and connectivity is a different matter). On the other... the specs are aging and you're still paying full price (?).

Journeyman Geek

Gave the cupcake vouchers to a random bank employee...

Bob

Really, the desktop world is where piecemeal upgrades make the most sense.

Except the pieces often aren't compatible past a couple generations these days -_-

Journeyman Geek

@Bob Apple dosen't make desktops.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek oh, I thought you entered with a cupcake voucher

@JourneymanGeek Mac Pro?

Journeyman Geek

Technically a workstation.

Practically not designed to be maintained.

allquicatic

08:02

This Video Will CRASH ANY iPhone!

►

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Eh... true enough, but not all that different in functionality.

In fact, the biggest difference might be the ECC RAM.

@allquicatic o.O

I wonder if that's software/firmware or hardware.

Could be a hardware decoder bug.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob and different psu standards and thermal design and...

Bob

@allquicatic Oh wait, delayed effect. Memory leak?

@JourneymanGeek Hm, how so?

Journeyman Geek

I mean, if it's something like a Dell or HP workstation maybe standardish PSUs...

Bob

Apart from the obvious form factor differences.

@JourneymanGeek Then that's not really a workstation vs consumer desktop thing. That's just an Apple vs ATX thing.

Journeyman Geek

08:08

Err. Trust me. Workstations have wierd shit.

Like CPU sleds.

And I don't think the motherboard form factors are necessarily standard.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Yea, technically it might more resemble server hardware someone chucked under a desk. But I'm more concerned about differences in functionality here.

Presumably some reliability differences too, but that's really hard to quantify.

The bigger difference with other higher-end workstations might be dual-socket support, but that's not on the Mac Pro either.

Journeyman Geek

Yuo

Bob

@JourneymanGeek There's also a problem wit hclaiming a distinction for workstations... e.g. Dell has a Precision line that they market as workstations. That contain consumer Intel CPUs. That look to be a slim ATX variant. That have non-ECC RAM.

The only thing workstation-ery about them is the GPU (Quadro, FirePro).

So basically a "workstation GPU" slapped into a consumer desktop, by the looks of it.

Journeyman Geek

Eh. True. Maybe hotswap HDDs and maaaaybe built in raid?

Bob

So... how what makes something a workstation? The presence of an entirely removeable GPU? :\

@JourneymanGeek Not on these‌...

Journeyman Geek

08:16

I suppose role? :P

Bob

@JourneymanGeek I kinda think of them as a cross between server and desktop, but there isn't really a clear boundary

Journeyman Geek

Heh. I don't consider those real workstations :p

Yup.

Bob

But when you actually use one - what's different about them?

A single-socket Xeon isn't necessarily different from an enthusiast i7. Or sometimes even a consumer i7.

ECC RAM is a difference, I mentioned earlier.

The workstation GPU could work equally well in either build.

So... chipset? Mobo design? But there's nothing obvious there.

Maybe enterprisey stuff on the mobo (vPro, etc.)?

Journeyman Geek

@Bob ecc, thermal design, and built in raid I suppose. But the Apple has none of those.

Andy K

08:30

question

is it slow to set a remote desktop connection on win server 2003, please?

I meant is it easy?

not slow

Bob

@AndyK it's about as safe as driving without brakes, that's what it is...

Andy K

Hi @Bob I want to reach remote servers based in China

issue is now, we are using team viewer to do that

so the best way would probably to set some kind of other solution

I'm thinking about using remote desktop

but if you have other solutions, I'm more than glad to hear

Burgi

morning

Andy K

\o

Bob

@AndyK At a minimum? A VPN or a remote desktop gateway (running on Server 2008/2012/2016). Server 2003 is no longer receiving security patches and should not be connected to the public internet.

Journeyman Geek

08:44

@AndyK the problem really is that win2k3 is old and insecure.

Bob

Once you have a properly secured connection into the local network (e.g. via VPN), then you can worry about remote desktop.

I don't think 2003 even supported NLA.

Andy K

so basically except team viewer (and even if it is definitely not advised here), the best solution would be to upgrade the server and set a vpn. right?

Journeyman Geek

Easy. Probably. Also easy for someone to hack you.

@AndyK upgrading the server would be a good idea anyway.

Bob

@AndyK The best solution would be to upgrade, yes. If that's not feasible (old software, money, etc.), then the next best solution would be to set up a VPN, then set up remote desktop behind a firewall so it's not reachable from the public internet. Then you remote desktop via the VPN.

Burgi

did that guy actually post a post question in the end?

Bob

08:47

You can also use Remote Desktop Gateway (running on Server 2008/2012) instead of a generic VPN, if you prefer.

@AndyK The easy solution would be to just enable remote desktop directly, but that's... not really secure.

Andy K

the RTT to our chinese site takes 456ms ...

let's not use the remote desktop directly then. Slow is better than hacked :)

Bob

@AndyK If you're wondering: NLA means you get the login popup before the session is created. Without NLA, you're dumped into the standard (local) login screen immediately.

Andy K

What means NLA, @Bob?

Bob

There have been some vulns in the past that would not have been exploitable if NLA was used. It also prevents some DoS attacks (because the NLA auth is much lighter than having to create a full session every time).

@AndyK Network Level Authentication.

Andy K

most peep here have no understanding of basic sec

Bob

08:51

@AndyK If you really want, you can just go enable RDP. I think it's the same way you do it in Win7, Win10, etc.. It's easy. And insecure.

Then again, running Server 2003 years after support ended was insecure in the first place.

This is the NLA login prompt:

Andy K

maybe we wait, at least for now

Bob

Without NLA you end up getting a full desktop session before user login, which opens up interesting vulnerabilities...

Andy K

grrrmmbbblmhhh

Bob

@AndyK It's a balance between security and ease of use/setup.

Burgi

wtf... they are ending firebug support

Bob

08:54

The fully correct thing to do is upgrade to a supported version. The quicker patchy solution is to use a VPN so it's not directly exposed. The really quick and easy and kinda wrong thing to do is enable RDP directly.

@Burgi They're trying to incorporate everything into native devtools *shrug*

I've not touched firebug in five years.

It hasn't really offered much useful since native devtools took off.

And native devtools are so much faster.

Burgi

the FF native ones were terrible when they launched

Bob

@Burgi were. they're not so bad now.

chrome devtools are pretty good

Andy K

Many thanks @Bob

Bob

but they have this realy annoying bug of not updating the canvas when stepping through a breakpoint that happens in the middle of a resize

Blog bot

Stack Overflow - Counting Developers with Providence

Kevin Troy on November 22, 2016

Our data platform, Providence, has evolved over the last two years. We look at how and why it has changed, and the effects on our counts of developers.

Burgi

09:10

@Blogbot i read that as "dating platform" for a moment

Journeyman Geek

hm

Gorilla glue is odd

and potentially useful

Bob

@JourneymanGeek odd how?

Journeyman Geek

@Bob it expands and foams

Bob

o.O

Journeyman Geek

which is potentially annoying if you don't know its going to do that

potentially awesome if you need to fill a gap while glueing

Rahul2001

09:43

This glue gun melts glue too fast :/

They should have a variable resistor or something in case the user wants less glue...

@Bob hah, I tried three different players, and my phone didn't crash!

Stops playing after about 4.5 seconds though

Andy K

quick question

if you could migrate an old windows server (2003), would you choose the 2016 version or a rather older (and implicitly) more stable version e.g 2012?

Burgi

is 2016 available to buy?

iirc they have changed the licensing model for 2016 and its a per core license rather than per cpu

so that might be a consideration for you

@AndyK microsoft.com/en-gb/cloud-platform/windows-server-pricing

Journeyman Geek

10:01

@AndyK depends on what you're running

the right way to do it is to fire up a test server, get a test environment on it, and make sure everything works

and which you upgrade to depends on your appitite for risk, and how soon you want to do it again. 2012r2 seems to be the 'safe' bet tho

Bob

@AndyK depends what the server is running and what the hardware is

Andy K

thanks guys

Bob

running modern Server on really old hardware also doesn't work too well

you're stuck in a nasty position :/

Journeyman Geek

or you can upgrade all the things at once ;p

Bob

@JourneymanGeek money

Journeyman Geek

10:05

@Bob yeah

Bob

@Rahul2001 ...or just squeeze less through

@AndyK if I were in your position I'd get things working with a vpn (e.g. run openvpn on the server) and plan an upgrade soon

don't put everything else on hold for an upgrade

business continuity takes precedence

Andy K

@Bob would setting up a vpn, creates some undesirable latency? I've already have a rtt of 400ms

I'd rather not add extra burden to the poor bandwith, if I can

as you said, business continuity takes precedence

I'd rather act with care than being too gung ho and being shown the door

Burgi

i have to say my memory footprint has vastly reduced since removing firebug...

Burgi

10:27

ugh! minions!

Rahul2001

@Bob it comes out without me squeezing :/

Burgi

see a doctor....

Anna duh

11:01

@allquicatic: server business: dead as a dodo, ipod business: dead as a dodo, smart watch business: meh.

Yeah phones are the one area they're still doing well in, but it lacks innovation and if they move production to the US as is rumoured, either the prices have to go up or profitability will go down

Burgi

its £600 for a basic iphone

that is a LOT of money

Bob

11:20

@AndyK I don't mean some random VPN service. I mean setting up your own VPN server either on a different machine in the same network, or on the Windows Server itself.

If you don't really understand that, then perhaps it's better to not do it. Especially on an aged production server... who knows what might break.

Anna duh

@Burgi Erf, Samsung's Galaxy S series is hardly any cheaper

And yes it's a lot of money, yet stupidly I spend it every year on unnecessary new phones, and break them 3 months later.

Burgi

get a £20 android phone :)

Anna duh

:-(

I'm quite liking my Galaxy S4 still

It's probably my favourite one of the Galaxy S series

Andy K

@Bob it is very tedious

indeed

Journeyman Geek

@Annaduh Not sure anyone's really got a killer smartwatch app

Anna duh

11:33

@Rahul2001 That's what she said!

@Bob Eh, it's just the CPU and mobo that don't go past a few generations these days. RAM, GPU, disks, audio, wireless, etc. all still do

Bob

@Annaduh Tell that to my DDR3 :\

(yea, yea, I know, half a decade)

Anna duh

@JourneymanGeek Workstations also have normal CPU sockets.

Journeyman Geek

@Annaduh vahuely

when they don't have sleds.

I've seen workstations where your second processor and ram was on a seperate sled/daughterboard

Anna duh

@Bob Except when you get ECC in a consumer i3 or Pentium

Bob

@Annaduh ...those are just plain weird :P

Anna duh

11:39

@Bob Yeah but the weird thing about NLA is the username and password is transmitted before TLS is initiated :-/

Bob

@Annaduh ... fail

microsoft. wat r u doin

Anna duh

@AndyK 2ms extra on top of 400ms isn't going to make any difference.

@Bob Hi there Bob's DDR3, you were useful for half a decade!

plz don't feel bad

@JourneymanGeek Yeah maybe in the 90's... find one today that isn't just a regular LGA socket and I'll eat my bra

The only machines that still have CPU sleds are Xeon E7-8xxx series and they are hardly "workstation"

E7-4xxx have RAM sleds though

Andy K

@Annaduh fair enough, we are not at a second (or 2) close loool

Anna duh

> This November is the Wikipedia Asian Month. Come join us.

ASIANS OF THE WORLD UNITE

Dammit Bob I want that Transformer

DavidPostill

@Annaduh It's also movember. Surely a better cause?

Anna duh

11:48

I feel like impulse buying a laptop today

Bob

@Annaduh :(

Anna duh

Holy crap my laptop looks insanely chunky compared to a modern Ultrabook

Journeyman Geek

lol

Anna duh

November 25th ends in 00:00:00? Someone fails worse at math than me

Journeyman Geek

12:08

whoa

WHAT THE WHAT

Apparently windows 10 has built in miracast/screen casting support

Anna duh

Err, yeah, that's been there since Windows 8

Journeyman Geek

which is pretty nice since I can actually cast my android phone?

and I just discovered this messing around

Anna duh

Oh

I thought you meant casting your Windows desktop to a Miracast screen

Journeyman Geek

oh, windows acts as a miracast reciever

its super janky on my desktoip

Anna duh

Oh

Bob

12:25

@JourneymanGeek soooo when'd you realise? :P

Journeyman Geek

@Bob while messing with the stealth

Bob

@JourneymanGeek it would be, except Google is dropping Miracast in favour of Chromecast

Anna duh

Hmm

Anyone had a Clevo W230SS?

Journeyman Geek

@Bob my phone seems to have support ;p

Anna duh

> barf

And I thought my laptop was chunky

Journeyman Geek

12:38

@Annaduh complete and utter pail

Anna duh

@JourneymanGeek Hmm?\

Clevo or Alienware?

Journeyman Geek

the link you were trying to post

Clevo, I can give a pass

those things have almost desktop level configurability/maintainability no?

Anna duh

Well I'm looking at a cheapo second hand one

Off Ebay

Journeyman Geek

gaming laptop?

Anna duh

@JourneymanGeek Yes, well Chat seems to barf at URLs with a $ in them

@JourneymanGeek Yeah

Journeyman Geek

12:41

ah. I have utterly no clue then

Anna duh

> Clevo W230SS 13.3" Gaming Laptop: i7-4710MQ, Nvidia GTX 860M, 3K display
520 quid

Journeyman Geek

eh dosen't look too bad

Anna duh

12:52

Lol, laptop centre listing a 920M as a "gaming laptop"

Bob

@Annaduh I have one.

Anna duh

@Bob You likey?

Bob

@Annaduh chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=w230ss&room=118

@Annaduh Eh... I think the monitor upgrade to 3200x1800 was a bad idea :P

Otherwise, it's nice hardware.

Anna duh

@Bob Lol why? The one I'm looking at has a "3K" display which I presume is that one

Bob

@Annaduh Apparently it's RGBW?

Anna duh

12:55

@Bob Oh

No overheating? Noise? etc?

Worth paying $900 AUD for?

Bob

@Annaduh Heat perfectly fine. Fan actually off during normal use, but I have a HDD in mine so that's a fair amount of noise.

@Annaduh ...I got mine for like $2k :(

Anna duh

@Bob :-o

New or used?

I'm just going to stick my current 1TB SSD in there if I get it

Bob

@Annaduh 2x mSATA

@Annaduh New. Was... uh. early 2014?

Anna duh

@Bob Oh. No 2.5"? :-o

Bob

@Annaduh 2015*

Anna duh

12:58

Bob has one. I'm sold.

Bob

@Annaduh I'm a tad busy right now, will give you more info in a bit.

Mostly like it, couple complaints.

Anna duh

Thanks :)

Bob

@Annaduh One 2.5" bay, I have my HDD in there.

Anna duh

@Bob That'll do. I've got a 1TB 850 Evo

Bob

@Annaduh Oh, fan is quite noisy under full (GPU) load.

It's fairly thick for a laptop, but not too bad

Anna duh

13:06

@Bob Did you see the picture of mine I posted earlier? -P

Huh CEX actually seem pretty cool

£23 voucher? I might finally get some value out of those 16 I have sitting around

Bob

@Annaduh I don't know if it throttles. Played Terraria, Sins of a Solar Empire, Stellaris. Haven't really played full 3D/FPS games on it. I usually play at 1600x900.

Anna duh

@Bob Eh, STO, as I mentioned, runs on a Sandy Bridge mobile iGP, so tbh anything would be good

Bob

It does get quite warm on the chest/lap if the fan needs to spin up.

Anna duh

Looks like 860M is about twice as fast as the 940M I "tested" for a bit

Bob

@Annaduh It's more or less the same as the 960M IIRC

Anna duh

13:10

@Bob About 20% slower I think,

But same chip basically, just clocked a bit lower

Burgi

Anna duh

GTX 970 - they buy for £136

Oh oh oooh

Oh :-(

> MSI GE62/i7 6700/16GB Ram/1TB HDD/GTX 970M/DVD-RW/15"/Windows 10/A

Computing / Generic Laptops

WeSell for £915.00
WeBuy for cash £430.00
WeBuy for voucher £610.00

I was looking at the webuy price instead of the wesell :-(

Bob

@Annaduh 10%

Anna duh

>
Alienware 17-R2 / i7-4710
8GB Ram / 1TB HDD / GTX 970M
DVD-RW / 17" / Windows 10
A
★★★★★
Write a review . This action will open a modal dialog.
WeSell for £630.00

Bob

but yea close

Burgi

13:13

you must be a millionaire @Annaduh, i have no idea how you can afford all this stuff while unemployed

Anna duh

@Burgi What, a £600 laptop? Well, by selling/exchanging £400 of hard drives and a £136 graphics card

And I'm a thousandaire, not a millionaire :-(

Burgi

still...

i'm in work and i have less money than you

Anna duh

You probably have more of a life

Burgi

either that or your last job was a sweet gig and you got paid far too much.... ;)

Anna duh

Ahem... it was a sweet gig, though I wouldn't say far too much

I'd say average-to-slightly-below-average based on the job function.

Slightly above average based on my age and qualifications though

Burgi

13:21

why did you leave again?

Anna duh

@Burgi I hated living in Aberdeen

Burgi

fair enough

Rahul2001

@Burgi talking about a glue gun xD

Burgi

arstechnica.co.uk/business/2016/10/…

Bob

@Annaduh Keyboard is decent, if you like chiclet

TKL though

uhh

speakers are meh, not terribad, not really good

Burgi

13:30

isn't mmWave close to the frequency of radar?

Anna duh

Asus EEE PC for 72 quid... might buy one just for laughs

@Burgi Radar uses all sorts of frequencies

(There's a reason WiFi has "radar detection")

Microwave, macrowave, millimeter wave...

DavidPostill

Radar

Radar is an object-detection system that uses radio waves to determine the range, angle, or velocity of objects. It can be used to detect aircraft, ships, spacecraft, guided missiles, motor vehicles, weather formations, and terrain. A radar system consists of a transmitter producing electromagnetic waves in the radio or microwaves domain, an emitting antenna, a receiving antenna (separate or the same as the previous one) to capture any returns from objects in the path of the emitted signal, a receiver and processor to determine properties of the object(s). Radar was secretly developed by several...

Bob

@Annaduh lemme know if you need more info

Anna duh

13:45

@Bob Thanks

Just found a Clevo with an 880M for £590 :-o

Bob

@Annaduh nice

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