Root Access

Canadian Luke

19:01

I'm going out, so ping me with your question, and I'll help the best I can

allquicatic

@bwDraco you'll save even more data by using Privoxy as your proxy, and you can have it compress images so much that you might actually be okay with viewing low-res images it sends you

wonder if there's a proxy or VPN transport that does LZMA2 compression

bwDraco

I'll need some time to configure a dedicated proxy server, but will look into it when I get a chance.

The primary goal is to reduce data usage. Privacy is a secondary benefit, appreciated but not strictly necessary.

Dog

19:18

ai.se makes me feel dumb.

@oldmud0 Last I checked Snapdragons don't even do zoom. It's a chipset, not a camera lens.

@Hennes Yes,

I've never come across any Windows 7 key in any environment that was tied to a specific bit-edition/architecture

Why do they do this?

Ben N

Why do people delete their posts, or why does the system show that banner?

Dog

The banner

Ben N

I suspect there's other bookkeeping (e.g. the number of answers) that's tricky to update on the fly

It's probably just easier to slap a banner on it and ask people to reload to clean it up

Dog

It's not effective at hiding the information, if that's what they're trying to do.

Ben N

I'm pretty sure it's not intended to hide the info, since they would just clear the text if that was the goal

Dog

19:28

Yeah, but they deliberately make it hard to read - though not impossible, just seems... pointless.

Ben N

I guess for the same reasons that very-low-voted posts are translucified?

Dog

Heck, they're changing the style of the div already to make it hard to read (opacity: 0.1) they could easily just do innerHTML="" to blank it completely

@BenN Yeah but they tend to be un-translucified when you try to read them IIRC (or mouseover?)

Ben N

Maybe it's to prevent the jarring effect of zapping the element out of existence and suddenly shifting everything else up

Dog

This sounds like something for meta :-P

Anyway, now that I've figured it's two clicks to un-hide, I'm gonna go read it, which is what I wanted to do to begin with

allquicatic

@Dog There are a lot of silly things about SE. Like the trusted user privilege page documentation that @BenN and I tried to get fixed. But the SE devs approach any such suggestion with a standoffish and extremely arrogant perspective, thinking they know more than people and not providing any solid justification for the way it is.

They'll do absolutely anything to avoid having to justify the way it is, or -- worse -- actually change something. If the site isn't outright down, don't expect much.

bwDraco

19:32

The real issue is that SE is understaffed.

They don't have the resources to seriously entertain every user request.

DavidPostill

Advanced Debugger

The advanced debugger adb is the standard UNIX debugger found on Solaris 1 and 2, HP-UX and SCO. It is the successor of a debugger called db. The initial version was written by Steve Bourne. ADB is the standard debugger on Solaris and the Solaris kernel debugger kadb that was introduced with SunOS-3.5 (1986) is a minor variant of adb. A version of ADB was integrated into the BSD kernel as a kernel debugger. On Solaris, ADB was replaced by the Modular Debugger mdb with Solaris 8 (2000) and the ADB command line interface now is emulated by mdb when it is called as adb. Mdb has become OpenSource with...

allquicatic

@bwDraco Is that really the issue, though? If they weren't arrogant, and weren't standoffish, then even if they are hopelessly understaffed so that nothing will ever get done, they would at least acknowledge that it's a problem, and add it to the backlog with status-pending or something.

DavidPostill

@BenN

Ben N

Ah, thanks. I should mention that

allquicatic

Trying to instead pretend like legitimate issues aren't actual issues is just lazy and tells your community that you don't want them to participate in helping make the site better.

bwDraco

19:34

10

A: Abrupt change in moderation staff?

I think the issue lies in the SE team's failure to communicate the issue properly. If a moderator appears to be acting without community consensus, there should be warnings stating clearly the nature of the issue and the correct course of action to take: HopelessN00b, I'm becoming very conce...

@allquicatic: Consider posting something on MSE if this is a serious problem.

allquicatic

19:46

@bwDraco lol, I'm done "contributing" to MSE and being stonewalled, and telling them that they're behaving that way will immediately draw a kneejerk "What?! What am I doing?!" -- people who have a problem are generally very, very bad at realizing they have a problem

Ben N

@DavidPostill I updated my answer

bwDraco

In the few times I've had to interact with Stack Exchange staff, it's been mostly problem-free.

Dog

@allquicatic TBH that sounds like a lot of online communities, not just SE. Plenty of place/forums/sites/developers/project managers tend to respond to the slightest criticism with "That's not a valid problem". Or bugs being closed as "won'tfixbecauseIdon'tcare" or "not a bug". etc.

allquicatic

I'll use their bandwidth as a convenient chat site, but they've made it very clear to me that they don't want my contributions, so I'll be happy not to make them :)

Ben N

@allquicatic True. I can't really think of a way to express that kind of concern without producing anger

bwDraco

19:48

The problem is, someone with a different, better personality may be less effective at running stable communities.

It's really, really hard to run a community and not get frustrated by the problems that come up.

Dog

Heck I'm probably guilty of it myself.

No, I know I'm guilty of it myself.

bwDraco

It's just like being a sysadmin.

Ben N

People always douse community/product creators in feedback, and a lot of it sounds good but is just not worth the effort

The change allquicatic and I asked for would be super easy to make, and I still think it's worthwhile, but I do understand their viewpoint

allquicatic

@bwDraco The funny thing is, even a comment like "I can't be arsed to fix it" acknowledges that there's a problem. Huge difference. I'm okay with someone saying they can't be bothered to fix a minor issue. Trying to act like they're on some higher intellectual plane and mysteriously they know that it's not an issue, now that's just arrogance.

Hell, I've pulled the CBA card multiple times with Cavil, but at no point have I said "you're wrong, nothing's actually the matter, your concerns are invalid". Valid concerns. No time to work on them.

bwDraco

It's all too easy to get burned out. Even the most enthusiastic developer can very well degenerate to this point.

No matter your intentions, it's a trap that's incredibly hard to avoid, especially when you're at the top of a community. There's a reason they say "absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Dog

19:53

Ouch. I just remembered how many times in the past I've responded to a customer with "No, that's not a problem, you're just doing it wrong. RTFM".

Mokubai

@bwDraco Power attracts the corruptible.

bwDraco

While I have no reason to believe that it's literally impossible to avoid doing the wrong thing, it takes an absurd amount of willpower to remain truly benevolent as one moves up the ladder.

Ben N

I think I'd say it's impossible to always avoid doing the wrong thing

"To err is human" &c

bwDraco

The difficulty of avoiding corruption scales with the amount of power one has access to.

Of course, mistakes are not always avoidable, but otherwise avoidable wrongdoing can become effectively (but not theoretically!) impossible to avoid by a weak-willed person in power.

Ben N

Transparency helps a lot with that, and fortunately the SE platform has a good deal of transparency built in

Also, almost all things are reversible (I can't think of a noteworthy irreversible thing a non-mod can do), which is definitely a good thing

Dog

20:28

Well crap

I just read through all the Shog9/Hopelessn00b drama on SF...

allquicatic

another power hiccup during a storm, lasted about 15 seconds

djsmiley2k

20:41

@allquicatic oyou get many?

bwDraco

Just wish I had the skills for a good job like you do, @allquicatic...

I'm busy doing household work right now.

I'll start by brushing up on HTML and CSS

A lot of studying and learning to do...

allquicatic

@djsmiley2k storms? daily

djsmiley2k

21:10

:/

bwDraco

21:41

To go a step further: I've installed iftop on my server to get a better sense of just how much data I'm saving using the SOCKS proxy.

iftop is a nifty little tool for monitoring bandwidth usage on the server, per socket and going in and out of the system.

This isn't my main server (the one that hosts my website). This is my secondary, experimental server, normally used to host a Linux cloud desktop but also used for this kind of proxying.

djsmiley2k

iftop is funky indeed

bwDraco

Curious? I'm using Linode 2GB servers. Affiliate code available upon request (I'm not spamming it unless someone wants it :) )

djsmiley2k

hehe i already setup something at home but thx

i litterally have no money to play :/

bwDraco

@djsmiley2k Ouch. Although I'm currently not on a job (employed as a sports photographer at my alma mater but currently off-season), I get a fairly large allowance that lets me do stuff like this.

It certainly isn't enough for really big projects, though.

djsmiley2k

i have 2 kids :D

im employed but contractor, so not paid when not there

son just spent 4 days in hospital

bwDraco

21:53

iftop says cumulative Tx 4.62 MB Rx 4.96 MB. Not much but even kilobytes can make all the difference.

Tx is the amount of data the server's sent, Rx is the amount of data the server's received.

djsmiley2k

now hes not sleeping so im stuckj between stay up and make sure he sleeps, or try sleep myself but hell likely start screaming again

but im leaving this job woooooooooooo

bwDraco

If I browse with image loading disabled, the difference would likely be much larger as images generally aren't compressible. I'm on Wi-Fi, though, and this is just for testing purposes.

djsmiley2k

thats a lot of tx

bwDraco

Testing with images disabled...

djsmiley2k

are you only looking at the outgoing interface?

wait actually u wanna just filer on the phones ip

bwDraco

21:57

@djsmiley2k That's the cumulative Tx. I'm on the server's main network interface.

djsmiley2k

yah u need to filter on the phone o really tell

bwDraco

Remember that this is a proxy server. It's passing traffic through an compressed SSH tunnel.

The main goal is to reduce data usage. Added privacy is a secondary benefit.

arda

from my experience, regular apps use more internet than regular browsing

bwDraco

Curious about whether LTE provides decent encryption...

Unfortunately, only Firefox is proxied. I don't want to break other apps. Besides, most data is used through web browsing.

Dog

!!caat

ChatBot John Cavil

22:01

bwDraco

This is on Wi-Fi a while back:

Feb 16 at 13:20, by bwDraco

djsmiley2k

yes but the tunnel terminates on the server right?

bwDraco

Yeah. The browsing happens through the server's IP address.

arda

(I just use an openvpn I host on my server, but well, it doesn't compress)

djsmiley2k

so in iftop you can filer by src/dst

hey @arda

:)

arda

22:03

@djsmiley2k hey :)

bwDraco

Firefox is configured to use a SOCKS proxy, which is managed by the SSH client app ConnectBot.

djsmiley2k

you can even do this iftop -F 10.0.0.0/255.0.0.0

bwDraco

4 hours ago, by bwDraco

Got a server with SSH access? Here's how to set up a SOCKS proxy for browsing on Android. Enable compression for the SSH connection in ConnectBot to reduce mobile data usage, especially when browsing with images disabled.

djsmiley2k

and itll monitor all interfaces

tho this will double/increase the traffic due to counting it twice

bwDraco

Only the main interface enp4s0 is relevant here.

iftop monitors this by default.

arda

22:05

reverse order

bwDraco

Hmm. What data plan do you have?

arda

@bwDraco LTE 12GB

I think the Android 6.0 update fixed the issue with extreme email checking. That used to several hundred megabytes a day

bwDraco

Huh. I'm on AT&T with an upgrade to take effect next billing cycle.

I haven't set up email on my phone, only my (non-LTE) tablet.

arda

Oh, I'm not in states. I'm in Turkey and am using Vodafone.

bwDraco

Right now, it's a mere 2 GB (and I don't use much on LTE). The upgrade bumps it to 3 GB while dropping the cost.

arda

22:10

You should consider switching to sprint

bwDraco

We're fine on the AT&T network. They just came out with new plans that are a better deal for us.

arda

I think I made a mistake upgrading to 12gb, now that the email thing is fixed

bwDraco

My parents are still on legacy feature phones (but plan to switch to smartphones by 1Q 2017 or so), which is why we can get away with this little data.

I have never exceeded 1 GB on LTE in any billing cycle.

But with this house move coming up, I will be without Wi-Fi for a while and will need more data...

AT&T has Rollover Data which gives me a bit more leeway, at least before the plan change takes effect...

(any Rollover Data is lost on a plan change, which is why the change isn't effective until next billing cycle)

Dog

@arda Last I checked the average person used like 1.5GB a month on 3G and 2.5GB a month on 4G. That was a while ago though

I can go through 25GB in a day. Did that by accident once. Otherwise it's usually 10-20GB a month 95% of which is on speedtests -_-

arda

@Dog I use over average though

@Dog I did 60

Dog

22:24

Our networks cap you when you reach your allowance so you can't "go over" without manually going to your online account and buying more data

bwDraco

Wow. If I'm on the field on the time, my parents are able to upgrade to a larger data plan, but it's presently not necessary.

Dog

Except in the case where I hit 25GB, that was on zero-rated data tho

Doing 60GB would have cost about $400

arda

when I use all my internet + use 3usd worth of internet that day, I don't pay for the rest I use that day

I used that when I wasn't home but had shows to download

Dog

One of our networks only allows you to buy each of the overage data packs once in a billing cycle, so the maximum you could ever do in a month was your allowance + 6GB + 3GB + 1GB +100M

bwDraco

On AT&T's new Mobile Share Advantage plans (like nearly everyone else, a change spearheaded by T-Mobile), running out of data results in your getting throttled for the rest of the billing cycle. There are no more overage charges.

Dog

22:25

Then you're hard capped and need to use a different SIM

@arda Nice. We used to have plans like that ten years ago, back when you were lucky to get over 0.1Mbps though.

bwDraco

You can always call AT&T to buy more data or switch to a larger plan as needed.

arda

Ikno, I really wanted to get one of those

Dog

Everyone's ditched the unlimited plans now, at least for PC/laptop access. Some still have unlimited mobile access, but no tethering allowed, and often heavily throttled.

IOW as soon as people started using more, they got given less... -_-

arda

this is different though, they were unlimited on month while this is unlimited on that day

@Dog again, sprint

bwDraco

@Dog Yup. The problem is that if you try to do true unlimited, you will inevitably have users that use extremely large amounts of data (terabytes!) and that hurts service for everyone.

arda

22:28

You get throttled to speeds that are usable. 2G speeds I think

bwDraco

@arda 128 Kbps on AT&T.

Dog

We have something like that when we're abroad - "Unlimted data" for £2 a day, with a 150MB "fair use policy". In reality the speeds are so slow from the outset you'd be hard pressed to even use up 50MB.

arda

@bwDraco I meant sprint. Sorry, reddit keeps recommending sprint to everyone so I kinda know everything about it

bwDraco

Usable for light web browsing but not for anything intensive.

arda

worst time I had my internet allowance finish was 1) looking for something in SO 2) updating my smartwatch

bwDraco

22:29

Hence, T-Mobile will deprioritize traffic from users who use more than 26GB in a billing cycle, resulting in lower speeds if the user is on a congested tower.

arda

my internet back then used to stop when I reached the limit though.

Dog

Pretty much the only times I ever actually reach my limit is when I'm speedtesting. So the worst time my allowance ran out was... speedtesting.

The only one exception was when I was in Finland and got on a plane, only to find Spotify had deleted all its locally stored content, so I was frantically trying to redownload songs as the plane was speeding down the runway.

Managed to run out of data about halfway down the runway. Reasonably good timing... >_>

arda

spotify's mobile app is terrible

bwDraco

On the new T-Mobile One unlimited data plans, tethering is throttled unless you add a $15 option for 5GB of high-speed tethering (if you do a lot of tethering, you may need multiple such allotments). Streaming media is also limited to 480p unless you add a $25 option.

arda

> Streaming media is also limited to 480p

how do they enforce it

bwDraco

22:33

Using the existing infrastructure they used for zero-rating streaming media at reduced quality (Binge On).

arda

ah

can't you, idk, use a proxy or vpn to watch in 1080 or whatever?

bwDraco

Don't think this is allowed...

djsmiley2k

pretty sure fcc rules say somkething about limiting quality too but alas ameriika is facked

arda

@Dog why do you speedtest that much?

bwDraco

lol @ "facked"

bwDraco

22:52

Sorry, my Android tablet wasn't cooperating because it was running out of memory (and Firefox doesn't like making lots of connections through a SOCKS proxy at the same time)

Psycogeek

23:06

@bwDraco ok usable for light browsing. and assuming you have all day to do something, how long would you figure it would take to download 1 Gig ? without paying them microtransaction to do so?

Bob

@Dog weird that they would restrict the phone

Maybe regulatory reasons

arda

@Psycogeek I think 128kbps is max 16kb/s so 17 hours

Psycogeek

23:29

ok thanks, that , , , that sucks.

arda

not really

I live on 3mpbs and lately it is down to levels of even 0.5mbps

(I have 40mbps internet on phone though. yay lte)

Dog

23:45

@arda I agree

@arda Fun

@Bob The S7? Nah, I doubt it's a restriction. More likely they just didn't bother putting the required amount of hardware in. You need multiple receive paths, tuners, transmitters, etc. For each aggregated carrier you basically need a whole separate set of radios, amplifiers, filters, etc.

Moreso on the transmit side than receive side, which is why receive CA is far more common than TX CA

Bob

@Dog Ah.

Dog

I suspect it'll become more apparent as we go on that the more CA capability a manufacturer claims a phone has the more restrictions there'll actually be on its functionality

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