Root Access

Hennes

00:40

Hello Chatbot John.
Why aren't you called Jane ?

Faheem Mitha

So, I was wondering if anyone can advise me about a suitable cheap choice of Win 7 or later. I don't actually use Windows, though.

Hennes

The last I bought was a this... (one sec. looking up)

Faheem Mitha

So, context. I bought the Fujitsu Scan Snap IX500, which runs on Linux, but the software is deficient.

I thought I could maybe install Win 7 or later in a virtual box, and use the software that way. It's a bit of a hassle, though.

Hennes

amazon.de/gp/product/…

I ordered that with the intention of upgrading to win10

Faheem Mitha

I found bonanza.com/listings/… and bonanza.com/listings/… for example.

@Hennes Amazon seems more expensive than some of the other alternatives out there, though.

Hennes

00:50

Aye.

I wanted a prof version though (or rather, anything but home)

Journeyman Geek

@FaheemMitha You know for certain its legit tho

Faheem Mitha

@JourneymanGeek That's true.

Hennes

The one I got was legit. I might order a second to play with

Faheem Mitha

@Hennes So, the prof versions are the ones you want to go for?

Hennes

Well, I want: yes

Prof or enterprise

Faheem Mitha

00:51

Two obvious questions. Will it work if I have to reinstall the virtualbox, or even on another computer?

Hennes

But for mere home usage, facebook, internet banking etc home is sufficient

Journeyman Geek

makeuseof.com/tag/…

@FaheemMitha if its for just scanner software and such, home

that said

Hennes

Win10 ties itself to hardware

Journeyman Geek

I'd suggest testing before you actually buy

Faheem Mitha

@JourneymanGeek Good point. If it's possible.

Journeyman Geek

00:52

yup

Anonymous

@Hennes have you tried shopping for the OEM versions as well?

Anonymous

they are dirt cheap too

Hennes

yes, but OEM does not seem to upgrade to win10

Journeyman Geek

dev.windows.com/en-us/microsoft-edge grab a VM here, test

@Hennes "retail" OEM will. Preinstall OEM will too

Faheem Mitha

@JourneymanGeek Ah, Ok. Thanks for the tip.

Hennes

00:53

MAR is sort of OEM

Journeyman Geek

@FaheemMitha that works for 30 days IIRC

you coooould rearm

(so 90 days)

Faheem Mitha

@JourneymanGeek That sounds like plenty.

@JourneymanGeek rearm?

Journeyman Geek

@FaheemMitha Yeah, there's a command which I never use that lets you reset the expiry date say 3 times

Faheem Mitha

@JourneymanGeek Oh, I see.

Journeyman Geek

anyway

grab the rough version od windows you want to buy

test first before you commit

I'd recommend trying 7 and 10. 7's likely to be available cheap (and get home) and upgrading to 10 is recommended

Hennes

00:55

I have been using a OEM (well, Dell) windows 7 iso to install. So far I have not seen anything about EFI.
Despite moving bootx64 to the right place and creating a GTP disk.
Not sure how to get to the EFI shell anyway on this rig

Faheem Mitha

It's currently saying expires after 90 days.

@JourneymanGeek Thanks. I was thinking of using 7. I confirmed that my scanner software is supported by 7. Also Vista, but I don't see Vista mentioned much.

Journeyman Geek

@FaheemMitha vista is somewhat of an unloved middle child ;p

(as is 8)

Faheem Mitha

dev.windows.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/vms/linux <- This one, right?

Hennes

As was ME

Faheem Mitha

@JourneymanGeek Oh.

Would the VB image work with pretty much any recent version of Virtualbox? Any idea?

Journeyman Geek

00:58

Try it

but yes

Faheem Mitha

@JourneymanGeek Ok.

Thanks for the assistance, everyone.

Journeyman Geek

that's the whole point

@Hennes ME was shit throughout its life

UNLESS it was an upgrade from 98SE

Faheem Mitha

I don't know anything about MS. I haven't used it since the late 90s.

Hennes

I run BSd on my servers, but for gamig I stiull have a windows 7 rig

Journeyman Geek

@FaheemMitha hence me suggesting trying before you buy

modern.ie is meant for browser testing but meh

Faheem Mitha

01:00

@JourneymanGeek Sure. Good call. Thanks again, I'll give it a whirl.

Journeyman Geek

lol

I run linux on my servers, windows on my desktop and laptops

Faheem Mitha

@Hennes BSD?

FreeBSD?

Hennes

FreeBSD on Dell R300's

Faheem Mitha

@Hennes Oh. Does it work well?

Hennes

Much better than linux at the time I moved from slackware to FreeBSD 5

Journeyman Geek

01:01

Yeah.

Hennes

I've stuck to FreeBSD since

Faheem Mitha

Apparently MS also has server editions of Windows. I once met someone who used them.

Journeyman Geek

lol

loooool

@FaheemMitha you're using it now

Faheem Mitha

@JourneymanGeek Hmm? You mean SE?

Journeyman Geek

and its pretty common in big companies.

Hennes

01:02

Nothing wrong with MS server editions. Except price

Journeyman Geek

@FaheemMitha yup

Faheem Mitha

@JourneymanGeek Oh.

Journeyman Geek

they're a windows shop

@FaheemMitha oh, also, if you're a CS student, or have an edu account, see if you have dreamspark access

Faheem Mitha

@Hennes Yes, I imagine it must be expensive.

@JourneymanGeek No, neither. But thanks for the suggestion. I'll try the VB image.

Journeyman Geek

alas

Faheem Mitha

01:04

No biggie.

I've never used FreeBSD, but I've heard good things about it.

Hennes

Oh. EUR 20 now

amazon.de/Windows-Professiona-Lizenzkey-Bit-Vollversion/dp/…

Anonymous

@Hennes wow slackware, old

Hennes

Lets get older. Kernels 1.2.8 and 1.2.13 were the stable ones.
And networking (N) was 18 floppy disks

Anonymous

@Hennes ze über legitzen windows licensei

Faheem Mitha

@Hennes I wonder if I could download from a German site.

Hennes

01:07

Why not.

All you need is a valid CoA

Anonymous

Das license

Hennes

(Certificate of Authority. Aka the key)

The iso you download from a known source. Even if they ship you a CD

Not sure what these ship you though. The EUR 35 one was a DVD (ignored), a key for english windows 7 prof x64, and a german language pack (also ignored)

Faheem Mitha

So the ISO and the CA can be obtained from different places?

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha yea

Hennes

Aye

Anonymous

01:08

Microsoft provides public Windows downloads

Faheem Mitha

Ah, Ok. Good to know.

Hennes

157

Q: Where can I download Windows 7 (legally from Microsoft)?

I just bought a serial for Windows 7 on-line from the Microsoft store (the most painful shopping experience EVER!). I selected that I wanted to download my version of Windows 7 after purchase. After payment I was listed a Product Key but no download link in sight. Where do I download my Windows...

Anonymous

which you athorize with your key

Faheem Mitha

I see.

Sorry if I missed that above, but if I switch to a different computer for example, could I reinstall using the same key?

Hennes

It depends on yopur windows version

OEM: Often no.
Ultimate: Allways

Faheem Mitha

01:11

@Hennes The professional option?

Hennes

OEM XP was usually tied to one specifiec piece of hardware

OEM windows viata/7 was not

Upgrade to windows 10 is

Anonymous

I don't say it with pride but I'm one of those lucky ones who upgraded from a Pirated W8.1 to 10 and got a valid license key generated

Faheem Mitha

Win 7 professional, to be precise.

Hennes

even if started from Ultimate (which is why I am NOT upgrading my win7 ultimate)

Up to 3 yeats ago I was in IT. I want to go back to an IT job. And playing in a home lab is easier with the prof version

Anonymous

@Hennes yea, there a lots of reasons why I wouldn't stand to use anything other than Pro (or Ultimate in the case of W7)

Anonymous

01:14

The Group Policy Editor is bloody useful even when you don't have a domain to manage

Hennes

Ultimate is to expensive for me. Though I got a free copy in a MS show when they introduced win 7

Faheem Mitha

So Win 7 professional can be reinstalled on a different machine?

Hennes

I think it can. If you wipe the older one

Faheem Mitha

@Hennes I don't have an "older" one.

Hennes

windows licensing is almost as bad as Oracle licensing though

Faheem Mitha

01:15

As of now, I just have one machine. But I might have another one later.

I'd prefer not to have to buy another license then.

Anonymous

slmgr is sometimes your friend

Faheem Mitha

Well, I don't really use Windows. I had XP on my laptop - I guess it's still there, actually, but GRUB seems to have forgotten about it. But I only ever used it once a year, to run my tax software. Turbo Tax I think it was.

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha btw

Anonymous

> OEM versions of Windows 7 are identical to Full License Retail versions except for the following:

- OEM versions do not offer any free Microsoft direct support from Microsoft support personnel

- OEM licenses are tied to the very first computer you install and activate it on

- OEM versions allow all hardware upgrades except for an upgrade to a different model motherboard

- OEM versions cannot be used to directly upgrade from an older Windows operating system

Faheem Mitha

@PatoSáinz Sounds like a lousy deal.

But this does not apply to Professional, right?

Anonymous

01:18

modulo the last "used to directly upgrade" because that answer was from the Pre W10 era

Hennes

OEM is OEM

Which differs from (soemthing lite, started IIRC) / home / prof / enterprise / ultimate

Anonymous

@Hennes there's OEM Ultimate, OEM Prof, etc. (afaik)

Hennes

I am not even suyre where MAR stands for.
Though it allowed myself to install a win 7 prof mar (and a new SSD) to my sisters old XP laptop

Anonymous

@Hennes Microsoft Authorised Refurbisher

Faheem Mitha

How wonderfully confusing.

So, beware of the dreaded OEM, in a nutshell?

Anonymous

01:28

nah OEM is very cheap too

Anonymous

it has its downsides

Faheem Mitha

Ok

Oh, and I also used to use Win XP to watch Netflix streaming, I think. At the time I wasn't possible to do it on Linux.

Christopher Hawker

Hi All, just earned my Chat priviledge overnight, thought I should come and say hello...

Hennes

I keer copying info from SF to SU

Time to make my own canonical question

nc4pk

01:44

@ChristopherHawker welcome!

Christopher Hawker

Thanks nc4pk, I used to frequent a lot of IRC chats but no time anymore...

Hennes

Copied a question from Server Fault to Super User so we can VTC it

0

Q: What are the different widely used RAID levels and when should I consider them?

This is a copy from [this question on serverfault in order to have a very good question to which to can VTC other duplicates. This is a Canonical Question about RAID levels. What are: the RAID levels typically used (including the RAID-Z family)? deployments are they commonly found in?...

raid

nc4pk

@Hennes link is broken

Hennes

How long until I can preliminary copy the SF answer?

Broken how ?

nc4pk

@Hennes the link to the SF answer... isn't linked

Hennes

01:48

Weird. I cut an pasted to regular. Not meta

Fixed now though

I'll bounty it in 2 days to see if anyone will improve on it

nc4pk

fixed it (extra markdown bracket)

Christopher Hawker

Anyone here good with CentOS 7 FirewallD?

Anonymous

@Hennes VTC? vote to close?

Hennes

Yes

Journeyman Geek

@ChristopherHawker I've messed with it before....

Hennes

02:00

Several times I have seen good answers on other Stack Exchange sites

But I can only copy those.

Not VTC as a duplicate of another site

Christopher Hawker

@JourneymanGeek superuser.com/questions/1023938/…

Hennes

I've been answering lots of SU question wth 'al see this post on SF'

Where I wanted to VTC is

But if I do not get that option I will copy the question and answer, and VTC to that

Anonymous

42

A: What are the different widely used RAID levels and when should I consider them?

Also RAID ONE MILLION!!!! 128 Disks so reads would be fast, horrible writes but very reliable I'd imagine, oh and you'd get 1/128th the available space, so not great from a budgetary perspective. Don't do this with flash drives, I tried and set fire to the atmosphere...

Journeyman Geek

@ChristopherHawker ahh. I mostly use the front ends

Christopher Hawker

I'm tossing up whether to stick with CentOS (which I happen to know and love - it's just this one question that has me stumped) or switching to pfSense.

Anonymous

02:10

@ChristopherHawker for network equipment? pfSense

Anonymous

I'd bet on it in terms of performance and security-by-default-and-design

Anonymous

(I also like CentOS (even though I prefer Fedora for everything))

Christopher Hawker

So you think I should use pfSense?

Anonymous

@ChristopherHawker yes IMO

Christopher Hawker

pfSense it is then...

nc4pk

02:16

hooray for EMET and limited user accounts

probably just saved me several hours of wiping and reimaging my grandparents' PC

Christopher Hawker

I also have a NAS to build, HP ProLiant MicroServer Gen8 with Rockstor...

Uses BRTFS with (I think) RAID-Z, speaking of RAID arrays...

Bob

@JourneymanGeek oh you're allowed your phone?

Journeyman Geek

@Bob yes.

It's a recent thing. I had a dumb phone.

Since camera phones were banned.

Christopher Hawker

02:36

@JourneymanGeek Where are camera phones banned?

Question about SU: If you want to ask for clarification on a question so you can answer it, but you have less than 50 rep and cant ask a clarification question in an answer, what's the best way to do it? Give multiple options in the answer?

Anonymous

@nc4pk finally Windows security measures work

nc4pk

@ChristopherHawker the most ideal solution would be to get 50 rep ;)

if you can't find any questions to answer a great way to earn rep is to edit other questions/answers

that's kind of how i got my start here

it's not a lot (2 rep/edit) but it certainly adds up

just make substantial edits (fix all the issues w/a post) and don't make a ton of edits at once

Christopher Hawker

02:52

@nc4pk So pretty much just trawl through the questions, answer those that I can, and edit those that need it that I can't answer, right?

nc4pk

@ChristopherHawker that's my advice

Christopher Hawker

@nc4pk It's a start at the least...

nc4pk

it takes time. don't get discouraged :)

Anonymous

Just finished setting up Google's 2FA

Anonymous

kinda painful process, really

Christopher Hawker

02:58

@PatoSáinz Isn't it still in beta? Or have they released it to the public?

Faheem Mitha

3.5 GB for a Virtualbox image is insanely bloated.

Christopher Hawker

@nc4pk Yeah, I know. Takes a lot to get me down. If anything, gives me something to do while my new NAS does it initial song-and-dance and builds it array (4 x 2TB in a RAID 5 will take a while)...

Anonymous

@ChristopherHawker it has not been in beta for years now

nc4pk

@FaheemMitha for what guest OS though?

Faheem Mitha

@nc4pk Win 7.

Christopher Hawker

03:00

@PatoSáinz I thought I saw something in the media about using your mobile phone for 2FA.

Journeyman Geek

@ChristopherHawker military bases.

Christopher Hawker

@JourneymanGeek Military bases?

nc4pk

@FaheemMitha that's way smaller than a bone-stock Win7 install is on a real PC

Anonymous

@ChristopherHawker ah yeah they are thinking of revamping the whole thing, but 2FA has been in Google for a looot of a time

Anonymous

first in the form of SMS/Voice call

Anonymous

03:01

now in the form of Google Authenticator

Faheem Mitha

@nc4pk Yikes.

What is bone-stock?

nc4pk

@FaheemMitha right around 8 GB iirc

and that's before running any sort of updates

Faheem Mitha

@nc4pk Ah. I meant, the term "bone-stock".

8 GB? That's terrifying.

Anonymous

@ChristopherHawker in my third day of using StackOverflow seriously I rep-capped (200 points)

Anonymous

it's easy actually, just find the niche knowledge you are an expert at

Christopher Hawker

03:03

My monitor looks like a game of Space Invaders with all the +s and .s for the DH keys it is generating.

2

@PatoSáinz Yeah am going to start the hunt...

Who just starred my post? :p

nc4pk

@FaheemMitha ah... bone-stock is like when you first install the OS without doing anything to it

Faheem Mitha

@nc4pk Oh, ok. I've not heard that term before. Thanks.

Journeyman Geek

@ChristopherHawker yeah. I've got a reservist call up next week.

Had to mention it here since I'm usually the easy to find mod :p

Christopher Hawker

@JourneymanGeek You in the military? Or as us Aussies call it, the Defence Force?

nc4pk

np! I tend to use weird idioms without thinking about it

Bob

03:05

@JourneymanGeek wait, do they allow smartphones now?

Journeyman Geek

@Bob yeah.

Faheem Mitha

@PatoSáinz It doesn't work so well if nobody cares about your niche knowledge.

Journeyman Geek

We have some areas where such phones aren't allowed... Like cookhouses.

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha heh scarcity is where value grows

Anonymous

my niche is Perl

Anonymous

03:06

it's scarcer and scarcer

Faheem Mitha

@PatoSáinz That's like the world's number 3 programming language.

Bob

@ChristopherHawker oh hi :P

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha it's not hip and cool

Faheem Mitha

@PatoSáinz What, Perl?

Anonymous

and it's been in an almost constant decline (according to TIOBE at least)

Anonymous

03:07

and it's a slow tag in SO

Faheem Mitha

@PatoSáinz Well, maybe it's my Unix background, but doesn't everyone use it?

Christopher Hawker

ohai @Bob, you in OZ too?

nc4pk

4

Q: Which way should I put pens in a container: pointing up, or down?

On my desk, I have a ceramic container with pens in it. I would like to know which way is more appropriate, pointing the pens up or down. If the pens are pointed down, it would be "safer", but it would risk ruining the pens and damage the container. If the pens are pointed up, it wouldn't ruin t...

office-layout

Anonymous

yes, perl

Faheem Mitha

Sometimes it sure seems like it.

nc4pk

03:07

meanwhile on HNQ

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha in some way, yes

Bob

@ChristopherHawker yup. I think that makes three now

Christopher Hawker

:D

@Bob Where you at? I'm in Sydney...

Faheem Mitha

If you want an example of a niche language, consider Common Lisp. Or better yet, Scheme.

Bob

Same! :D

Faheem Mitha

03:08

By the way, hello everyone. I didn't introduce myself. I'm Faheem.

Bob

'lo Faheem

Anonymous

@nc4pk max inanity

Faheem Mitha

@Bob Hi Bob

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha sup. also yeah, Perl is still very widely used but it's not Go/Ruby/Python/JS/etc.

Anonymous

there are no "rockstar perl lean agile developers"

Faheem Mitha

03:10

@PatoSáinz I can't believe that. Looking now.

Christopher Hawker

@Bob Damn, what a small world...

Next thing we know, you could be my neighbour XD

Bob

@ChristopherHawker Heh, we seem to be overrepresented in this room :P

Faheem Mitha

Hmm, yes, less activity than I would have expected.

Bob

@ChristopherHawker ...y'know, that's entirely possible O_O

Anonymous

Faheem Mitha

03:11

I'm a Python user myself.

Anonymous

TIOBE for this month

Christopher Hawker

@Bob Unless you are in the Fairfield area, it is highly unlikely...

Faheem Mitha

Hmm, Python is surprisingly high.

nc4pk

Java gained 6 percent o.O

Anonymous

also assembly ranking higher than ruby, yeah

Bob

03:12

@ChristopherHawker Ah... nah, I'm down the other end.

Faheem Mitha

I don't know how useful those numbers are. Python more popular than PHP? Seriously?

Christopher Hawker

@Bob Which corner of Sydney?

nc4pk

those numbers look really suspicious... VB.NET at #7?

Bob

@ChristopherHawker North of the harbour

Journeyman Geek

@ChristopherHawker I'm male and singaporean

Faheem Mitha

03:13

And I'd bet money there are still more people on the planet using Perl than Python.

Journeyman Geek

so I end up getting an annual paid vacation to the arse end of singapore or other various scenic parts of the singaporean military industrial complex

National service in Singapore

National Service in Singapore, (commonly known as NS), is a statutory requirement for all male Singaporean citizens and second-generation permanent residents to undergo a period of compulsory service in the uniformed services. Depending on physical and medical fitness, they serve a two-year period as Full Time National Servicemen (NSFs), either in the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF), Singapore Police Force (SPF), or the Singapore Civil Defence Force (SCDF). A 2-month reduction in full-time National Service is given for pre-enlistees who are able to pass their National Physical Fitness Award (NAPFA...

nc4pk

@FaheemMitha define "using"

like for real applications probably

Faheem Mitha

@nc4pk write code in.

nc4pk

Python is the New Hotness in the education sector (at least in my experience)

Faheem Mitha

Perl got a lot of early traction. At least in the Unix world, everyone past a certain age seems to know it.

I don't personally, but I came to computers quite late.

Christopher Hawker

03:15

@JourneymanGeek Ahh, yes. I remember when I was there, was talking to a young guy in Geylang about it when I was there for 3 weeks going back in August last year.

Faheem Mitha

@nc4pk Python is popular, sure.

Journeyman Geek

@FaheemMitha and a lot of core tools are based off it

Faheem Mitha

@JourneymanGeek Python? Which core tools?

Journeyman Geek

@FaheemMitha perl.

Most package managers these days are python based I suspect

Faheem Mitha

@JourneymanGeek Oh. Yes. True. For Debian, even. Probably due to Joey Hess, in part.

Notably debhelper. (I'm a Debian user.)

Bob

03:18

@ChristopherHawker @FaheemMitha So, what brings you two around here?

Just looking for a place to chat? :)

Faheem Mitha

@Bob I was asking for help for doing a Windows install (in Virtualbox). See the transcript.

I was directed here by terdon (from U&L). He said you guys would know.

Christopher Hawker

@Bob I logged in to check on an answer to my question and I saw that someone +1'ed an answer I posted a question which gave me enough rep to join the chat. And here I am ;)

Faheem Mitha

I didn't realise SU chat was so active. I've not been here before. Our chat isn't, generally.

Anonymous

Bob

Well, nice to have you two!

Anonymous

03:20

haha the SO survey for this year asks "how many pennies are in this piggy bank"

Bob

@FaheemMitha We tend to talk about ... almost everything in here.

Faheem Mitha

@Bob Thanks.

Journeyman Geek

Speaking of esoteric knowledge...

0

Q: A key on my keyboard isn't working that well

I have a (mechanical) razer blackwidow ultimate, probably 2013, doesn't say on the box really. I have had it for around a year, and my S key has sstopped working that well. Sometimess it put 2 SSs, sometimes it doesnst put any Ss at all. I have tried to fix thiss typing but forget it, it would ta...

keyboard

Anonymous

@FaheemMitha yea the SU room is really entertaining and sometimes informative: The Comms Room (server fault) used to be too until they emigrated

Faheem Mitha

@Bob Ah. Well, I've been in such rooms. Notably the Frying Pan.

Journeyman Geek

03:20

I'm suprised I know remember razer's custom chinese switches

Bob

> Soldering is required.

Faheem Mitha

U&L chat tends to stay on topic most of the time. It's the gravitational pull of Unix.

Bob

That's always a scary sentence when talking about computers :P

Faheem Mitha

@PatoSáinz Emigrated?

Oh, I remember hearing something about that.

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek dnf and yum (fedora) too

Faheem Mitha

03:21

They decided they didn't want to talk to "ordinary" people?

Journeyman Geek

Naw

there's a few factors

Anonymous

be-nice chat policy et al, google index, site-wide mods, too broad of an audience, etc

Journeyman Geek

firstly, there's stuff people want to talk about that they'd rather not have google indexed

secondly, there's a wierd love-hate relationship between some users and the network

Anonymous

what a shame, they were really fun and in between all their messages with expletives I got to learn a ton about server & networking stuff (sometimes it feels it's another world compared to desktop pc)

Faheem Mitha

So what happened? They went off into some private room?

Anonymous

03:24

yes, Slack

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Heh, can fully understand that sentiment.

Faheem Mitha

@nc4pk Ah, I see you're near RTP. I used to live in the Triangle.

Are you at NC State?

Bob

Hm. Crap, temps should hit 36 this Thursday :\

Journeyman Geek

@FaheemMitha they moved to slack

@Bob we kinda did that too with gitter

Bob

@JourneymanGeek ya

Faheem Mitha

03:30

@JourneymanGeek A room called Slack?

Journeyman Geek

._.

How does anyone not know slack? ;p

its a hosted chat service

Bob

I don't like Slack much... the formatting is funny :P

Faheem Mitha

@JourneymanGeek Oh, it's a chat service separate from SE?

And no, I don't know it.

Journeyman Geek

@FaheemMitha correct

VERY popular nowadays

nc4pk

@FaheemMitha yep! majoring in computer engineering

i'm from the area (Durham)

Faheem Mitha

03:34

@nc4pk Oh! Hmm. That's a nice town. Used to live there. Briefly.

I used to work at Duke.

nc4pk

ah! went to some of Duke's summer camps and have friends whose parents still work there

what did you do at Duke?

Transcript for