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00:27
I thin people overestimate the advantages of IPv6 for IoT
think*
Doing away with NAT and port forwarding is as much a disadvantage as an advantage.
@qasdfdsaq NAT and port forwarding are workarounds tho
(that said, I do suppose an IOT device wouldn't have a firewall)
IoT devices are notoriously full of security vulnerabilities. Consider the [unfortunate fate](http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/02/password-leak-in-wemo-devices-makes-home-appliances-susceptible-to-hijacks/) of the Belkin WeMo home automation device. There are many devices out there that have similar issues.
If these devices are taken over by hackers, there is typically no way for the average person to find this out. These devices have no display or “typical” user interface, and they won’t necessarily exhibit behavior that people will find problematic. It’s possible that an IoT device co
Yet another vulnerability in WeMo products involves the way they use the session traversal utilities for NAT and traversal using relay NAT protocols to connect to the Internet. A lack of entropy generates globally unique identifiers that are easy to predict. The advisories come a few months after a separate researcher uncovered vulnerabilities in the WeMo baby monitor that could be exploited to turn it into an Internet-controlled bugging device.
Exactly, what @DavidPostill said.
Opening IoT devices up to internet access is just going to expose a ton of insecure, poorly maintained devices to attackers
Not opening IoT devices up to the internet is going to require users/ISPs/network administrators to actually learn to implement robust firewall policies, instead of the lazy "secure by default" you get with everything behind a NAT
...because with NAT, you'd need to explicitly port-forward to get an inbound connection to a particular device behind the router.
Ideally for functionality and security they'll mostly be making outbound connections anyway, at which point inbound connectivity becomes moot (again)
There's no inherent need for IoT devices to have inbound connectivity, in fact they do better without it.
There's two families of IoT devices: Business/M2M/commercial, and consumer stuff
00:41
@qasdfdsaq Surely the whole point is that you can make inbound connections - for example use your smartphone to turn on the heating 1 hour before you plan on arriving home
The business class ones might benefit from IPv6 just from having more flexible addressing, but will all be on a secure private network to begin with, preferably airgapped
@DavidPostill Pretty much all such devices function by making an outbound connection to an external hub/cloud service, which is far superior than inbound connectivity
We have IPv6 on Time Warner Cable but it's a bit glitchy.
First problem with using inbound access is dynamic IPs, second being security, third being requiring each device to have it's own internet-facing daemon, certificates, and so forth.
(TWC was among the first to deploy IPv6 on a large scale.)
@qasdfdsaq So my phone sends a message to the hub and the heating system polls the hub for messages?
00:43
@qasdfdsaq: heh. The real problem is most consumer routers don't do ipv6 firewalling (well?)
It can poll but it's better to get a push message
@JourneymanGeek Most network administrators don't do IPv6 firewalling (well) either.
But a push message is an inbound connection surely?
@qasdfdsaq: I wouldn't mind it if everything ipv6/outgoing was blocked by default and I could open them up as needed
No, messages are just pushed over an existing outbound connection.
Ah. I'm so out of date with all this new technology :/
00:44
@JourneymanGeek That would require you or the device to manually set up rules for each allow, which doesn't make it any easier than a NAT forward rule
@DavidPostill Mobile phones these days use the same system for "push email"
Basically a connection is opened to the server and kept open (with keepalives if neccessary), the server just sends data down to the client when needed.
Firstly it's robust against IP and even network changes, secondly it's more secure
If you want to see the pitfalls of lazy security implementations, just look at the many websites that compile lists of publicly viewable compromised CCTV cameras
@DavidPostill Incidentally, "Find my iPhone" and similar features use the same thing.
I understand. Thanks for the summary. I will read more about it tomorrow - it's past my bedtime ;)
NP.
It's a lot easier for everything to just connect to one static server than to have every device of yours have to keep track of the location and IP of every other device of yours.
(Not to mention changing the password!)
@qasdfdsaq One more question if I may. If all the (IoT) devices in my house have public (IPv6) addresses then theoretically I wouldn't need a router? I could plug some kind of WAP into my internet connection and the WAP wouldn't need a router component?
Or a firewall component? But I can see why that would a BAD thing.
@DavidPostill Well, depends how your ISP offers their service. They can indeed just hand out IPv6 addresses to each of your devices and have their own edge router as the DHCP gateway, so you wouldn't need a "router" per se
On the other hand I don't see any benefits of doing it that way, given the "router" component is just a bunch of code running on a $2 embedded CPU, there's not much to be saved.
@qasdfdsaq: Other than each IPv6 device has its own set of ports.
00:56
@JourneymanGeek That's not really any different whether the router is at your end or theirs.
@qasdfdsaq Got it.
I suspect the standard method is going to be IPv6 delegation.
@DavidPostill: With my ISP/Router I just plug in the SLAAC or IPv6 RD config, and it just works (tm)
The ISP router gives your router a range of addresses, and you control how they're handed out to each device in your household.
That way you can have addresses for every device, but you control how they're handed out. You'll also need a router for firewalling anyway, as well as QoS/rate control.
And again with the move towards FTTx there's going to be a lot of CPEs with VOIP ports and so on, which would require the same CPU as a router anyway.
(To be fair, the term "Router" has been a misnomer for quite a while)
- 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1
01:00
!! s/1/penis/g
@qasdfdsaq - penis - penis - penis - penis - penis - penis - penis - penis - penis (source)
Ah FUCK
Should have done it this way
!!/help
@qasdfdsaq Information on interacting with me can be found at this page
01:02
@RecycleBin @qasdfdsaq Surely the whole point is that you can make inbound connections - for example use your smartphone to turn on the heating penis hour before you plan on arriving home (source)
Err... that did not work as expected
!!tell 25069019 listen s/wtf/test/
I think I broke it
!!no
!! tell qasdfdsaq s/broke/foo/
01:04
@qasdfdsaq Command s/broke/foo/ does not exist. (note that /tell works on commands, it's not an echo.)
!! tell qasdfdsaq listen s/broke/foo/
@qasdfdsaq @qasdfdsaq Command s/foo/foo/ does not exist. (note that /tell works on commands, it's not an echo.) (source)
!!doge this,is,annoying
         wow
                  very this
                         much is
so annoying
!!urban doge
01:08
@qasdfdsaq This command has been removed due to an excessive number of risqué results. It can be readded after some sanitisation is added. Feel free to do so here.
my panties are on fire
!! s/.+/$& and they smell like toast/
@qasdfdsaq my panties are on fire and they smell like toast (source)
asdf
!! s/.+/$& and they smell like toast/
@qasdfdsaq asdf and they smell like toast (source)
God I hate regexp
01:11
@qasdfdsaq I'm about to die laughing ;)
@DavidPostill Now you're making me laugh.
@qasdfdsaq and @RecycleBin now have all the starred messages ;)
Why the fuck do people keep starring dots?!
!!lick
@qasdfdsaq That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
!!give god a lick
01:15
@qasdfdsaq Mmmm! god tastes just like raisin
!!give me a lick
@qasdfdsaq Mmmm! you taste just like raisin
!!give DavidPostill a lick
@qasdfdsaq Mmmm! DavidPostill tastes just like raisin
!!tell DavidPostill listen give I a lick
01:16
@qasdfdsaq Command give does not exist. Did you mean: live (note that /tell works on commands, it's not an echo.)
@DavidPostill Mmmm! I tastes just like raisin
!!tell test listen give I a lick
@test Mmmm! I tastes just like raisin
!!tell test listen s/.+/$& and they smell like toast/
@test @test Mmmm! I tastes just like raisin and they smell like toast (source)
!!tell 25069019 listen s/@test//
01:19
@test @test @test Mmmm! I tastes just like potato and they smell like toast (source) (source)
!!tell 25069019 listen s/@test//
!!tell 25069249 listen s/listen/what am I doing wrong/
@ChatBotJohnCavil !!tell 25069019 what am I doing wrong s/@test// (source)
ffs.
Oh NOW I figured out what's wrong.
The bot found this! "Surely the whole point is that you can make inbound connections - for example use your smartphone to turn on the heating penis hour before you plan on arriving home"
!!bitch
@qasdfdsaq What's there to bitch about, as long as I have you...
!!sorry
01:31
@qasdfdsaq What for?
01:47
you might get plonked for overusing the bot u know
idk
Bob
Bob
@bwDraco Put it this way: if he really wants the starring to stop it's a simple matter of "ok, seriously, stop starring me".
(just checking, @qasdfdsaq, you don't really care do you?)
I say this because most of those messages are more star-fishing, and we've done that many times before in this chat -- I've done it myself several times.
!!/help sorry
@bwDraco Command sorry does not exist.
What???
!!/sorry
@bwDraco That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
Bob
Bob
01:53
It's a joke. It's for fun. Jumping to "it's harassment" is a very harsh way of putting things.
What on earth is star fishing
!!sorry
@bwDraco What for?
Bob
Bob
@qasdfdsaq We do it sometimes just to get more stars :P
!!sorry seems to be a hard-coded Easter egg :P
01:54
I don't. Unless there's an achievement for it or something.
But I can hardly call "." star fishing
I seriously don't get why the fuck people actually star a message that just says "."
At least one of mine and two of Recycle Bin's got starred for saying "."
Bob
Bob
@qasdfdsaq In all seriousness -- do you actually want people to stop starring your messages?
I don't care
Bob
Bob
'specially the ones that explicitly refer to the 'chmod incident'?
In all seriousness I'm more confused why people seem to star such absurd things.
Bob
Bob
(because, usually, there wouldn't be much point mentioning it unless you were looking for stars)
01:55
I mean the button says "Star as interesting". WTF is interesting about "."
Bob
Bob
@qasdfdsaq because chat here is usually fairly light-hearted
so stars are usually used for amusing things, or as a source of amusement themselves
we've had starring sprees with completely pointless messages before
heck, that's happened in probably half the SE chatrooms so far.
It seems anytime anyone says "." it gets starred, and anytime anyone mentions starring it gets starred, regardless of if it's a completely mundane statement.
I mean I get it, when I fucked up, it's funny. But "."? C'mon.
"my panties are on fire and they smell like toast". Now that's funny.
But nooo, people prefer to star a dot.
Bob
Bob
@qasdfdsaq Eh, I was asleep that time. But sometimes we just have random stars.
e.g. click through here
@Bob LOL
02:02
where can I learn about windows NT like from a computer science point of view
Bob
Bob
Windows Internals books
ill get some for xmas
thanks
Bob
Bob
Though that's not exactly computer science...
It does go into a fair bit of detail about the design.
!!tell 25069632 listen s/windows NT/using the recycle bin/
Bob
Bob
There's also some good info on the oldnewthing blog
02:03
ffs.
!!tell RecycleBin listen s/windows NT/using the recycle bin/
@RecycleBin !!tell 25069632 listen s/using the recycle bin/using the recycle bin/ (source)
GRRRR.
Bob
Bob
hehe
ONE DAY
I will figure out this damn bot
can I change the firefox shortcut to zoom from shift + mouse wheel to ctrl + mouse wheel
windows explorer uses the shift too
02:07
I thought it already was ctrl
@qasdfdsaq You can't use regex in a tell.
I mean vice versa sorry
Yes you can, I'm just doing it wrong
!!tell allquixotic listen s/wrong/like I'm on fire/
@allquixotic Yes you can, I'm just doing it like I'm on fire (source)
Bob
Bob
02:09
Apr 14 '14 at 2:29, by allquixotic
GOOBY PLS
When JMG says "ahh" he gets starred. When allq says "GOOBY PLS" he gets starred.
I need a catchphrase :P
WTF is gooby please?!
All you and your in-jokes
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin Hm... an AHK button remap is probably not a good idea since those buttons are used for other things.
Bob
Bob
I wonder if AHK can handle button + scrollwheel combos.
looks like alt ctrl and shift are in use
Bob
Bob
02:11
Oh you can change it in the configs.
Well that works :P
im in about:config
Bob
Bob
@qasdfdsaq I'll leave @allquixotic to explain that to you :P
!!urban gooby
@qasdfdsaq This command has been removed due to an excessive number of risqué results. It can be readded after some sanitisation is added. Feel free to do so here.
!!define gooby
02:12
@qasdfdsaq No definition found.
!!google gooby
@Bob yours is !!foxno in response to "What does the fox say?"
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic But that needs prompting! :P
!!foxno
@qasdfdsaq there's nothing especially special about Uncle Dolan Show except that (1) it's rather hilarious in its own demented way; (2) gooby pls apparently has a similar effect to sudo on GNU/Linux (assuming no password / cached password)
@allquixotic (2) Huh what
Now I'm more confused
mousewheel.with_shift.action;2
looks like it
@qasdfdsaq Gooby doesn't really want to kill Spoderman. Dolan wants him to. So he says, gooby pls, and then Gooby is like, ok, fine I'll do it.
Ah right
02:18
I could just swap this with mousewheel.with_control.action
Sudo make me a sandwich
Or equivalently: "Make me a sandwich." ==> "No!" ==> "gooby pls" (alternately capitalized "GOOBY PLS") ==> "K."
@Bob there are actually a few hundred JMG "Ahh"s that haven't been starred.
You guys have too much time on your hands.
yup that did it, now shift + mouse wheel zooms instead of ctrl + mousewheel
replaced
mousewheel.with_shift.action;2
mousewheel.with_ctrl.action;3
with
mousewheel.with_shift.action;3
mousewheel.with_ctrl.action;2
03:06
superuser.com/questions/994135/… AKA "why are so many web pages done so crappily and with extensive junk that 1/2 the time people cant even view them as intended" :-P All that work and it only works on your own configuration, makes you wonder, Why you didnt make it simple, which would have been easy.
wow windows 10 takes up 20 gigabytes
is this a joke or what
windows is meant to be getting less bloated
lol like that never happened, they even removed a lot of really big and good stuff and it did not get smaller.
microsoft these days just havn't got a clue
ya think that the original programmers are dead , along with any original intent.
trip to the garage to on some barly operational computer , and zero budget , might case them to rethink it. say 1 year garage sabbatical
im installing win 10 now and im gonna make a list of all the faults it has
yes im sad but im also right
03:15
@RecycleBin you could just count them :-) give people a number instead.
Anyone here watching the World Series?
nobody seems to agree that it sucks
@RecycleBin it is perfect for chatting getting e-mail, and wandering around the interwebs. like who really wanted to work anyways , or play the games that for 10 years you still have not got around to playing.
Course any linux or embedded or even internet appliance , or heck even my phone would do all that.
there are some positives ive seen so far but ive only had it for a few seconds and theres likr 5 negatives and 1 neutural
its in the windows setup stage
03:40
oh gosh
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin If you go into anything thinking like that, all you're going to find are issues.
And I say this as someone who doesn't particularly like 10. Don't really hate it either, though.
Quirks of new OSes always take some time to get used to.
Im noting positive things too
I just find there is too many text links instead of buttons, and it in general is very hard to use especically for people with visual problems
Bob
Bob
Hm. Can't say I've noticed that myself.
im not sure what there exactually called, they are lines of text which you click to perform actions
Bob
Bob
Unless you mean the flat style doesn't look like a traditional button.
03:50
theres too many of them I think
Bob
Bob
(normally when I hear "links" I think "like a hyperlink", i.e. underlined but otherwise normal text font)
its sort of like a hyperlink
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin I think the ones you're talking about are buttons, it's just the flat visual style...
Could you get a screenshot?
hold on
uh sure
Bob
Bob
btw, if you hit Win+printscr it'll save a (full screen) screenshot to your pictures library
they introduced that with Win8 I think
Bob
Bob
(I still use Snagit/Greenshot to take partial screenshots)
some get underlined when you mouseover them
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin ah. those are links
on the other hand, they're kinda intended to be hard to see
not good
Bob
Bob
there's some design guidelines somewhere... basically the "go forward" route is emphasised and the "advanced" route stands out less
03:53
but there everywhere
even in control panel
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin on the setup, yea. setup is mostly designed to be click-through for most people
otherwise you'll have a bunch of complaints about too many options
personally, I like the options
but even then a whole list of them scares me at times
XP does use them usually for opening help documents or hypertext
but not as often
Bob
Bob
43
A: What are the differences between buttons and links?

luna1999Rule of thumb: a link takes you to other place, a button does something. That said, things can be flexible in this regard. Links are sometimes seen as low priority buttons, and buttons, almost always take you to other place. [edit 2013] Things have changed a bit since I wrote this answer. I now...

> [edit 2013] Things have changed a bit since I wrote this answer. I now use big buttons as clear "call to action" and try to avoid using more than two of them on any screen. Then I use smallish, tag-like buttons or links as low priority options.
Yea. It's a fairly new design philosophy.
I'm pretty sure it's in the Microsoft design docs. I think it's also in Apple and Google design docs.
sometimes in Windows XP and prior versions they are used for actual functionality
Bob
Bob
They don't use "links" as such but they have the concept of "flat buttons" that mostly look like normal text.
03:58
those are fine for menus
those have been around for decades
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin Sorry, wrong link.
Bob
Bob
(I didn't notice I scrolled down before copying)
> Only use hyperlinks for navigation; don't use them for other actions.
Heh. They don't exactly follow their own guidelines.
(I think @OliverSalzburg had a few examples of that)
> Expose only one or two buttons to the user at a time, for example, Accept and Cancel. If you need to expose more actions to the user, consider using checkboxes or radio buttons from which the user can select actions, with a single command button to trigger those actions.
I would say only two buttons is not always enough
what if you need 'add' 'edit' and 'remove'
or 'advanced'
or even more so 'dont save' 'save' and 'cancel'
Bob
Bob
Hmm. Apple either doesn't address this directly or are recommending to always use raised buttons: developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/UserExperience/…
04:03
too many buttons is probably bad though
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin Yea, that's why they're guidelines.
on one dialog that is
Bob
Bob
Also depends what kind of interaction you're looking for.
A menu is conceptually just a whole bunch of buttons (or links) under a tab.
there can be child dialogs such as 'advanced' for further buttons, or radio buttons/checkboxes etc
yes
and a submenu is like a button that opnes a new dialog with more buttons
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin It's a bit of a hard argument there. Major vendors are trying to move away from needing an "advanced" section at all, but that sometimes means functionality/configurability is lost -- and some options just don't really fit elsewhere.
04:06
having visual elements certain ways effects ease of use, thats why the close button is in the corner, because you can move the mouse as much as you want but the pointer will always be static at that point
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin Heh. That might've been the idea in the early days, and I still expect that, but with multiple monitors it really isn't the case.
I've lost count of how many times I've overshot.
text links dont really tell the user that he is mousing over them, or that he has clicked them, unlike buttons that usually do
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin Well, you do get the cursor changing to a hand normally. But that doesn't work for touch interfaces.
you can double click on the left hand side of a dialog box like in OSX to close a window too
Bob
Bob
Links might actually be easier for visually impaired people, if they use a screen reader. But harder for those with somewhat-poor vision or even good vision.
04:09
there just isnt a button there - doesnt mean theres no hotspot
Bob
Bob
Bit of a tradeoff though.
Going back to the setup screen example -- the point there is so the user doesn't have to make a decision unless they really want to.
and to maximize or restore m double click the title bar
Bob
Bob
If you give them two buttons then they need to go think about which option they want.
@RecycleBin Heh. I know some people who do that. I don't do it much myself.
I usually use Ctrl+W (works in most programs I use) or Alt+F4.
Keyboard shortcuts! :D
so that sort of solves the multiple monitors thing and there is many other ways to close and manipulate windows too
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin Alternative: use the snapping feature by dragging to the top. Or to the sides. Another alternative: Win+arrowkey.
04:11
OSX does not put the close button right in the corner and it is too small
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin Yea, I know the shortcuts and use them often. But I still try to use the buttons now and then just to find I missed it -_-
im not a fan of the autosnap feature as it gets in the way of resizing and moving a window
I have the same problem with mutiple monitors
but there isnt a lot you can do there really
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin Ah... I find it alright with a mouse on a desktop, or touchpad on a laptop.
With a touchscreen, especially on a small tablet, I have had it get in the way of resizing a few times.
The "shake" one is annoying though. I think they removed it in Win8?
(shake left and right and it'll minimise everything but the one you're holding)
ah that
OSX has that I think
wacky gestures
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin Win8 actually made it a bit better with the "hot corners" -- now you can't move to a different monitor within 6 (?) pixels of a corner
04:14
I better get back to work, in a bit
Bob
Bob
(though, instead you get that charms bar, which might be considered equally annoying. at least you can disable that if you want)
im ok with the charms bar
last time I tested win10 it was still beta so lets see
04:31
YES they brought back the ability to resize the start menu
big +
04:56
wow no switch user button
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin there is one on the bottom left
where?
my windows 7 desktop wont refresh when manipulating files on it
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin from the login screen
05:11
nothing at all on the bottom left
or on the start menu
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin you might need multiple users first
definitely there on bottom left of lock screen
oh dear
ok well net user /add failed
Bob
Bob
o.O
how so?
UAC I bet
anyhow this is just testing, I dont need to add several users
well I am done, I obvioustly cant go into too much detail as id be testing it until I die
Bob
Bob
@RecycleBin ah... run cmd as admin?
05:25
ah its cause im not an admin user
thats fair enough
despite UAC and command prompt as admin
well it got 22 positive and 21 negative and 5 neutral
I should go to bed now :}
05:42
afk
 
1 hour later…
06:50
@Bob shake it like a polaroid picture, the stupidest gesture anyone could have possibly dreampt up, not only is it about 50 times more activity to engage it than a simple stupid button by the minimise would be, but you can be assured (and it did) it will go off when you are just arranging pictures.
3rd party programs have added monitor switch, and special function buttons next to the minimise close stuff for years, MS having poorly used that space already with assanine ribbons and bars, but a big empty white DumFluck bar there that could have arrays of fuctional buttons. like having the menu there like my (maxthon) browser allows, or an audio slider , or arrays of other things. but what did the geniuses think up to put there ??? Friggen tard system.
the reasons why there are "links" not "buttons" is because todays MS programmer didnt get beyond coding in html. they cant make a real assembler program, or C or whatever would be proper coding for a "OS" they might be able to squeese out a crappy .NET program or do something in Java , as if the OS is a web page. All the real tight right clean fast programmers died.
Billion doller company making The Most used software in the world, and thier programming skill reaches to a 14 year old making a blog.
The advantage here (of course) is if you ever wanted a job there :-) you have to ask yourself why you did not apply .
I lived in washington (state) and trust me when i tell you the pool of available technical persons would not be that huge :-)
Bob
Bob
07:07
@Psycogeek You have no idea what you're talking about.
i know how it used to be, and i know the diff between a EXE and a XML
I wouldnt be surprised if the Kernel used XML :-)
ATI/AMD couldnt manage to hire a descent programmer for thier interface either, being in .net, and pretty much being more cute than functional, it is slow fat, and buggy. here is a group of people who have to accomplish the most sofisticated driver interaction and hardware processing , and compatability, who went back to the worst programming method to create the user interface.
By the time MS gets all thier top bars and added bars, and the menu that has to be turned on again anyways, because not all functions are in the moran bars, then add the charming bar and the modo status bar, and there is about 2 lines left for (what the f-- do you use an explorer for) the file and folder items, the thousands of them.
I started using Q-Dir over thier "windows" and i instead have access to 4X the file items in the same spaces, all better use of space, and my cool color coding. MS gives us what Butterfies and Clouds
Who even know just how Internet dependant the system really is, if it should ever go down, instead of people screaming about how net dependant it was, they will have a fit about the sharks :-)
I expected the internet dependancies in many things to come back and bite the whole economy in the butt, and cripple 1/2 of everything people are doing. But the interwebs are Freeking amazing non-stop never fail systems. fires floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, civil unrest, bombings, war, and the internet doesnt go down :-) how does that happen.
Used to be (xp) a start menu could be organised with folders, made the nicest cleanest start menu ever, but that only works in the "all programs" which in 7 and beyond is one extra (bullcrap) layer down.
The pop-out on-top toolbars could be used to not only organise all your programs so they are not stuffed all over the (inaccessable when you have 15 windows open) desktop. as if there is anything organised about plopping 150 programs AND even file items on the friggen desktop. Unless they are the same people with 150 pages of crap strewn about thier desk :-)
Gone . . .
Media center program, which millions were using for TVPCs gone
07:32
In short. It's new and you hate it :)
unfortunatly the people who were making freeware and 3rd party versions of the same, began to abandon thier projects, so MS MC pushed out its competition, then decided to abandon it themselves.
@JourneymanGeek it is new, and there is ZERO anything better this time.
XP was new, and it was cool, 7 was new and i went with it, and just lost 7 things, and ended up with 70 bugs and 700 security risks with 400 of them patched :-)
I am not against new, i use LEDs :-) but i dont use Crappy ones.
I would buy a hybrid car, but not one that costs 20K every 2-3 years to replace the batteries.
I use a lot of New Solar :-) but i wouldnt buy cheaply made plastic short term crappy solar products.
There is a differeence between new and New Crap that has zero actual advantages.
Is there more speed? NO!
Is there tighter programming NO!
Are there good features removed YES!
are there bad features put in YES!
My mobile devices (touch screen) use android, the other half of the world seems to be fascinated by Iphone things. so the point in converting the desktop to Touch ? is for what? people are not buying touch screens for desktops.
According to the stats, people with laptops , rarely go mobile with them :-) and the majority of them will not even view outside , so they are just portable desktops, and bed computers
The cool new tiles interface, which could be "gadgety" like The desktop gadgets were, also GONE!. it virtually un-customisable. on a system that had much and much customisability before.
If there was any actual cool new stuff, the tiles interface could have temp monitors, cpu guages, drive size and disk churn speeds etc, have customisable colors, allow for pictures. but what do we get that is "live Tile" ? a weather gadget , because you cant look outside :-).
And MS weather here uses the worst most unreliable weather service around, making it wrong 90% of the time anyways .
The most downloaded 3rd party themes ever on themes sites are Dark themes, when people want to change the stock, they want dark, but MS , appealing to the masses instead makes even more stuff stark white.
a feature of adjusting the colors of things . . . Gone! again, although you can hack it.
the list of "new" things they would eventually have to support, high res, dual monitors of odd sizes, and many other very important things to many many people, were a complete Flop. why the heck would anyone take a system that previously worked, and BLUR stuff up with nasty interpolations, and bad size controls?

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