Root Access

Michael Frank

00:00

he tried to die it at one point.

allquixotic

I think I need to make that a non-community command, so only room owners can use it

we have enough room owners and mods here that there wouldn't be a time where the bot is out of control and nobody here can stop it

barlop

00:12

maybe have the bot in another room for people that are keen on playing with it so they can do so without disturbing the room

perhaps such that if it 'breaks' it's not a main one.

TheDoctor

Cool bot

barlop

00:28

@TheDoctor it will need cooling after that!

TheDoctor

heheh

Journeyman Geek

00:52

@Bob bigger screen (Which oddly is a negative for me) with lower pixel density, and mediatek chips are often not as good.

though if my dad or mom replaced their phones, I'd probably consider that or a redmi

KronoS

@JourneymanGeek do you know if this is true?

I'm assuming you have an old win vm lying around somewhere

Journeyman Geek

@KronoS: I apparently don't have that utility ;p

I have a windows 98se vm I think

with a copy of display doctor I googled the key for ;p

barlop

01:09

@KronoS what that there's a support chat hidden in help. They didn't mention the windows version "an old windows utility has an undocumented feature". they're not even trying to fool anybody. It's like a spam scam email wording.. except to an xkcd audience it's not even a pretence. and it's just intended to set up a joke.

It says "if you click on the background" give me a break.. you can't seriously have thought that was serious.

you know wwe/wwf wrestling's fake, right ;-)

KronoS

It's been a long day

allquixotic

01:50

thetravelalmanac.com/lists/fish-speed.htm

Lol that's one fast fish!

We could learn something about fluid dynamics from that fish's design

Pauska Sock

02:20

!!sockittome

ChatBot John Cavil

@PauskaSock That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.

TheDoctor

I wish you could grep for physiacl objects

allquixotic

02:43

@TheDoctor you can. it's called ask a woman where it is

Michael Frank

@allquixotic Poseidon's blow darts.

My friend recently moved to Canada and he just sent me this:

:<

allquixotic

@MichaelFrank I hate him for that downstream, but I have about the same (or slightly better) upstream

Michael Frank

@allquixotic I hate him for both. I'm getting 40/10 at the moment.

HackToHell

I win ! :P

allquixotic

not getting great speeds tonight, but a couple months ago I was hitting about 30 Mbps down, 15 Mbps up

the network is probably congested

TheDoctor

03:08

allquixotic

03:38

@TheDoctor wow, that's horrible :(

TheDoctor

i know

MikeyB

@MichaelFrank Kitchener, eh? Me too. :D And considering I'm paying for 45Mbps down/4Mbps up:

Talk About IT!

04:01

Talk about IT!: The delays…

posted on May 07, 2014 by LukeB

Hi everyone… It’s been an interesting month so far! I’m sorry for the lack of posts, but life is really starting to pick up! The girlfriend and I are still settling into our new home, and preparing for an addition to the family! As well, my volunteer activities have been dragging a lot of my […]

Sathya

04:54

morning folks

Bob

06:05

@JourneymanGeek Ya, but more RAM. And, really, for what I do on a smartphone RAM is more important than the CPU (after a certain point) - less apps being closed in the background.

Journeyman Geek

06:30

falls over

Human puppies are a lot of work

Journeyman Geek

06:41

@Bob: the one 'issue' I'd have is storage, but turns out I have a lot of options there ;p

Bob

@JourneymanGeek microsd :P

Journeyman Geek

@Bob: thats the one thing the moto G lacks ;p

(though, the USB drive or USB OTG connector with an external HDD is nice.)

Sathya

And while you're it, you're in freaking final year of your professional studies. Stop using txtspk and the train of periods. "....." — Sathya ♦ 7 secs ago

Journeyman Geek

lol

@Sathya: How do these people even get that far ><

Sathya

mind boggles

Journeyman Geek

06:54

Of course I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I didn't at least understand how what I did for my assignments worked ;p

none of this silly gimmethecodez shit

Sathya

ikr

Ash

what the **** ???

►

Journeyman Geek

oh that

internet equivalent of numbers stations ;p

slhck

07:22

Anyone want to help me craft a good question for the main site or troubleshoot something?

I have this Windows 7 machine that doesn't get an IP address unless I manually disable and enable the DHCP service.

No idea where to start looking for problems.

Oh wait, now it worked without doing that.

nvm then

Bob

lol

@slhck RA is magical like that ;)

slhck

I suppose so!

Also, you can stream live HD video from the ISS. Quite amazing.

Dave Rook

08:07

I have an electronics question, which is off topic at SU. If I were to hold a magnet (a 'normal' house hold magnet of 'average' strength) to an SSD drive, it could prevent the OS from loading. But, does it just corrupt the data or is it more likely to physically destroy it? Or is this really unanswerable

Sathya

2

A: Troggy's beefy arm of moderation needs a break

Troggy! One of the early, the few.. the proud... THE BURNINATED It's been an honor to serve with you. And Super User will always have a special place in my heart. A place reserved for plush things...

Jeff makes a meta post

Bob

@DaveRook If you hold a magnet to a SSD, nothing should happen...

Even a mechanical HDD is pretty well protected against such a weak magnet.

Sathya

SSDs don't contain magnetic platters, do they

Bob

But a SSD? You'd need a pretty strong or quickly changing magnetic field.

That could induce a current strong enough to damage it.

But using your hand to move a fridge magnet to it and hold it there? Nothing.

Dave Rook

erm... really? I've been told that's what has happened and the computer won't load

Bob

08:11

@Sathya They don't, but they can still be affected if the magnet induces a current strong enough to damage electronics.

@DaveRook ...what kind of magnet are we talking?

Maybe if it were a rare earth.

Dave Rook

What you would have at home - nothing special or specialist

Bob

But it's... unlikely. Highly unlikely.

As in, anyone with an understanding of physics wouldn't believe it unlikely.

Dave Rook

Right... I wonder what it killed then...

Thanks guys, have a great day, I'm going to try and answer questions now :)

Bob

26

Q: Is it possible to wipe SSD with strong magnetic force?

I know it is possible to wipe a hard disk, but I'm wondering if something similar can be done to SSD disks as well?

@DaveRook ^

> sufficiently strong, changing magnetic fields can damage any electronic equipment, including flash memory devices. This is due to electromagnetic induction producing electrical currents inside the circuitry that are strong enough to damage the hardware.

OTOH, moving a magnet next to the cable might be enough to cause corruption.

But there should be checksums that discard this data anyway.

And, again, a stationery magnet shouldn't do anything.

Journeyman Geek

@DaveRook: suprisingly enough, a normal magnet may do nothing to a HDD

the entire casing is basically a large magnetic shield

Dave Rook

08:46

How complicated this has become...

I think the magnet was being rubbed!!

Journeyman Geek

09:02

ugh, so lazy superuser.com/questions/751150/is-outguess-free-as-in-freedom

Oliver Salzburg

09:22

@JourneymanGeek Ugh, those tags!

mpower

0

Q: specify name without format of file in cmd

I want to convert some files with a program that needs CMD to run. It gets 2 arguments first input file name and second output. I used FOR %%f command to use it on all files in a folder like this: FOR %%f IN (*) DO xWMAEncode.exe %%f output but input and output have different file formats a...

windows command-line cmd.exe

Oliver Salzburg

09:35

@mpower Maybe you could use dir /B instead of *

Bob

09:57

@OliverSalzburg ewwwww

:P

This does not work if any of the filenames have spaces - a similar bug to a common Bash pitfall. You can get around it by fiddling with tokens, but the other answer is the better and correct way to do this. — Bob 31 secs ago

@JourneymanGeek ...I hate F/OSS purists. And until/unless a good reason is provided, I'll just assume it's another purist.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob: I don't even care about that. ITS RIGHT THERE ON THE FRONT PAGE.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek That too :P

But even if it wasn't, this wouldn't be a good question for SU.

Journeyman Geek

oh and I almost gave the edit reason as "We are not your friends" superuser.com/posts/751161/revisions here

@Bob: Yeah ;p

Bob

@JourneymanGeek hcl me? ??

Journeyman Geek

and probably should get a lot of closevotes

Bob

10:03

hydrochloric acid with Windows ME?

Journeyman Geek

@Bob: hence the comments. google says its a tablet

hcl is a brand of electronics. I think its chinese, but they sell in india mainly

hclstore.in/categories/… You know they are great systems when the best processor they offer is a core i3

Bob

@JourneymanGeek I see a couple of i5s...

Journeyman Geek

@Bob: details details ;p

Bob

xD

Sathya

@JourneymanGeek Indian brand

Journeyman Geek

10:07

@Sathya: ahh.

oh. I just realised what the H stands for ;p

Sathya

:p

Journeyman Geek

;p

HCL Enterprise

HCL is a global technology and IT enterprise that operates in 31 countries. Its headquarters is in Noida, India. The company comprises two publicly listed companies, HCL Technologies and HCL Infosystems. HCL was focused on addressing the IT hardware market in India for the first two decades of its existence with some activity in the global market. On termination of the joint venture with HP in 1996, HCL became an enterprise comprising HCL Technologies and HCL Infosystems. HCL Technologies focuses on the global IT services market, whereas HCL Infosystems focuses on the IT hardware mark...

ooh

Sathya

→ 9 messages moved to Recycle Bin

Journeyman Geek

oops

→ 1 message moved to Recycle Bin

wait what?

Sathya

?

Journeyman Geek

10:15

apparently one of the guys who started HCL might own a computer store I know of here ;p

smallish universe.

Sathya

Oo

Journeyman Geek

OH, I got the name confused

never mind.

Stack Exchange

10:53

0

Q: How to filter election vote alerts from the inbox?

I'm getting a whole bunch of inbox messages about elections even on sites where I only have a few hundred points. Would it be possible to add a preference to filter all election vote alerts from the inbox on the top of every page?

feature-request

allquixotic

12:26

open.spotify.com/track/1Mpz68H0J3Yo3Bnx0g7KUu

Bob

13:35

@allquixotic heh, all my new rocket designs with higher tech stuff are barely making it into kerbin orbit

allquixotic

@Bob it takes... more "creative" design to successfully launch higher tech stuff

Bob

@allquixotic urk

that's gonna be fun

allquixotic

a lot of the higher tech propulsion stuff may SEEM awesome because high thrust and/or high efficiency, but the main problem is, it requires ridiculous amounts of fuel to power such hungry engines

and to break that fuel out of a suborbital trajectory (going up into space then crashing back down) you need a hilarious amount of thrust from SRBs

Bob

@allquixotic Heh, I'm not even trying to ship the fuel out

I'm trying to use the higher tech stuff to boost a small orbiter out

...do you play KSP, Clippy?

allquixotic

lol

@Bob such as what?

Bob

13:41

@allquixotic mainsail engine, jumbo fuel tank...

played round a bit with that giant two-thruster engine+fuel tank assembly I forgot the name of

and the SRBs that go with it

allquixotic

wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Kerbodyne_S3-14400_Tank

that fuel tank? or the rockomax one?

Bob

@allquixotic rockomax

the one with "jumbo" literally in the name

allquixotic

@Bob ah. the rockomax one is considerably smaller than the one i linked. not that that's a bad thing :P if you're having trouble lifting that one into orbit, imagine how hard it'd be to lift a tank 2.25x heavier :D

a mainsail engine can just barely lift one of those S3-14400s :D

Bob

@allquixotic I'm not even trying to lift it into orbit! I'm trying to use it to get into orbit!

allquixotic

@Bob I understand that. but getting into orbit and lifting it into orbit are basically the same thing for this thought process :P

Bob

13:44

Stacked two of them and I can barely make it out with a tiny bit of fuel left.

allquixotic

@Bob are you using SRBs?

Bob

@allquixotic ya

allquixotic

which ones?

Bob

these wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/S1_SRB-KD25k

allquixotic

how many?

Bob

13:46

@allquixotic six in the latest design, two stages

first stage fires four, second stage fires the other two

it works decently? :P

allquixotic

@Bob hmm. not too bad. though personally I'd try firing all six at once, and stack two separate stages of SRBs on top of one another, and fire the first six, then separate them, then fire the next six.

Bob

@allquixotic Hm. I haven't tried stacking SRBs like that since my early disasters :P

allquixotic

also, do not fire your liquid engine until you leave the atmosphere, and make sure to get your horizontal velocity going ASAP once you break out of the thick atmosphere

@Bob if you have unlocked struts and the launch stabilizers, you should be able to safely launch with such a monstrosity now

Bob

@allquixotic I've started going higher before going horizontal

allquixotic

just attach struts (they'll break away when you decouple) to the SRBs to remove the wobble

Bob

13:50

Tried going horizontal early, and ended up not making it far enough up

@allquixotic ohhhh

allquixotic

@Bob Scott Manley said the most efficient way is to gradually ease your way to horizontal

Bob

damn it

here I was thinking struts weren't decouplable

allquixotic

struts don't decouple by themselves, but the force exerted by the decoupler overcomes the ability of the struts to remain intact, so they break off of whatever they're attached to

it doesn't damage your ship, don't worry

Bob

@allquixotic I've been considering launching an orbiter up and shipping more fuel to it, before I remembered I haven't unlocked any parts to transfer fuel with :P

allquixotic

@Bob a lot of people end up going that route once they unlock docking ports and some kind of way to regenerate electricity in space (solar panels, RTGs, etc)

Bob

13:52

@allquixotic I'd need docking ports before I could land anywhere (minmus) wouldn't I?

Hm, maybe not.

allquixotic

@Bob no, definitely not -- you can land on Minmus without docking ports

which liquid engine are you using?

Bob

@allquixotic mainsail at the moment

with the last stage using the 30kN thrust ones

allquixotic

to land on Minmus (which is the easiest planet besides Kerbin to land on, assuming you also want to leave; I'm excluding Eve from this discussion because it's also ridiculously easy to land on, but you will never escape its heavy gravity with your current tech) you'll need an efficient engine, but not necessarily ridiculous thrust

Bob

but those don't generate power, and I don't have panels yet, so I'm considering swapping for the 50kN ones

allquixotic

if I were you I'd use the "Poodle" liquid engine or one of the other, much smaller thrust engines with high efficiency, and carry A LOT less liquid fuel with you, and rely on your SRBs entirely to get you into orbit

so in summary, I'd ship enough fuel to do extended (long periods of time) full burns with a small liquid engine, rather than short burns with a super heavy engine; and I'd let SRBs do 90% of the work to get me into kerbin orbit

and I wouldn't use anything like a mainsail or a clipper or anything that big at all, not even in the first stage

if you have it, the LV-909 is great for landing

Bob

14:00

@allquixotic I've been using that one. Might have to switch to Poodle

allquixotic

@Bob according to the wiki, using several LV-909s is the same as using one Poodle except that the four LV-909s weigh less and have less thrust vectoring (harder to steer)

it says 5 LV-909s but I don't know how you'd even use that many, I've only ever seen a quad adapter

I guess you could try to stick them on modular girders coming out of the bottom of your vessel but that seems weird

and you'd need hella struts attached to them to keep them from flying off when you go to full thrust -- engines on girders are almost always a recipe for disaster because girders aren't designed to handle that amount of torque without major strut support

Bob

@allquixotic I just need to get struts ASAP :P

> Features a novel full-body crumple-zone technology.

hehehe

allquixotic

try this next launch (just navigational tip, irrespective of rocket design): at about 5 km up, tap the appropriate direction key to turn slightly in the direction of Kerbin's rotation. at 8 km, tap it again. at 10 km, give it a nice firm tap (10-15 degrees rotation). at 15, go 45 degrees or more. by 20 you should be totally horizontal and still burning your engines

and don't fire your liquid engines until you're around 10 km

Bob

@allquixotic horizontal at 20? O_O

I've been going up to 40 or higher...

allquixotic

@Bob the atmosphere is done by like 15 km, IIRC.

Kerbin's atmosphere is thinner than Earth's

one time I launched a tiny probe with an enormous engine on it at full thrust just to see where the atmosphere was; if you're going really fast, you start igniting the atmosphere (as you've probably seen at least once)

I still get a kick out of the RT-10's description

> While considered by some to be little more than "a trash bin full o' boom", The RT-10 is used in many space programs, whenever the need to save cash is greater than the need to keep astronauts alive. Use with caution, though. Once lit, solid fuel motors cannot be put out until the fuel runs out.

jackopen

14:21

have anyone used imacros firefox addon?

allquixotic

Altitude (m) 	Velocity (m/s)
75 	100.9
1000 	110.5
2000 	121.9
3000 	134.5
4000 	148.4
5000 	163.7
6000 	180.6
7000 	199.3
8000 	219.9
9000 	242.6
10000 	267.7
12500 	342.4
15000 	437.8
20000 	716
32000 	2332

@Bob according to the KSP wiki, that's the optimal velocity (with respect to Kerbin) at any given altitude

the most "fuel efficient" is what it says

Bob

@allquixotic Really? I thought it was 60 o.O

allquixotic

@Bob you're right, it is like 69, but the atmospheric pressure (and drag) drops off exponentially, and it's already basically nothing by like 15km

notice how the recommended velocity goes from 342.4 m/s at 12.5km to 437.8 m/s at 15km

and at 32km you're going close to orbital velocity

with still another 36km or so to go until the atmosphere is totally gone

in other words, going too fast at lower altitudes is exponentially more fuel-wasteful than going too fast at higher altitudes

your strategy of firing some boosters, then others, seems quite sound in that respect

Bob

@allquixotic it actually ends up going a little too slow :P

Hm. I may as well go try again now.

Bob

15:00

@allquixotic nope, not much use :P

time for a redesign

@allquixotic huh, it was an 8-SRB (6 + 2) design

eh, let's make it 16! :D

Journeyman Geek

WE NEED MOAR POWER!

Bob

@JourneymanGeek That was the name of my first three ships :P

The SRBs are actually overheating O_O

allquixotic

@Bob attach heat sinks to them or make your craft more aerodynamic. heat sinks are things such as struts, or anything metal that connects them to less hot things

adding wings and aerodynamic nose cone(s) helps too

Bob

15:19

@allquixotic A poodle can't take two jumbo tanks :P

I think I need to have a mainsail

allquixotic

@Bob don't use so many tanks then! O_o

Change your passwords!

Bob

15:34

@allquixotic I was going to say no, but then my attempt at adding more tanks and engines and SRBs tore itself apart :P

allquixotic

@Bob the solution isn't necessarily moar; it's efficiency...

Bob

note to self: don't try to turn too sharply with RCS O_O

allquixotic

email to me:

> son doctor's appointment

oh, so you attend your son's doctor's doctor appointments? how nice... or creepy

or maybe the doctor only takes care of people who are a son of someone

(males)

Bob

16:14

damn it

@allquixotic I just noticed minmus appears to be orbiting on a different plane

now I need to figure out how to adjust :P

sammyg

is there any simple way to create a timeline of events for a whole year?

something like this

allquixotic

@Bob yup! :P and you have to line it up before you hohmann transfer

sammyg

i would prefer something interactive, not just for the show

i checked calendar in outlook and it doesn't have this type of view

allquixotic

quicksave in case you mess it up, then plan a maneuver node at the halfway point between the apoapsis and periapsis and drag the purple triangle up to see where it would end up

@sammyg MS Project?

sammyg

@allquixotic yeah something like that is probably what i would need

i'm looking for some project management software now

but ms project is not free

what's a good free alternative to ms project? anything open source?

jokerdino

16:23

gnome project

Bob

@allquixotic no idea how to use maneuver nodes yet

sammyg

most alternatives i've found are web based, but it looks like ProjectLibre could be worth a try

Bob

just playing it by ear :P

YES

allquixotic

@Bob maneuver nodes are important!

Bob

got a 7km flyover now :D

allquixotic

16:24

@Bob niiiice

Bob

and I should have more than enough fuel to get back

:D

allquixotic

@Bob do you at least know the meanings of the markers on the navball?

Bob

@allquixotic ya

I did go though the ingame tutorials, as incomplete as they are

allquixotic

@Bob ok, to land, once you get around that 7km periapsis, you should burn retrograde slightly until you have a suborbital trajectory

sammyg

@jokerdino the first nuclear test?

allquixotic

16:26

if you have enough fuel (and confidence), try hard to land on the flat-looking "sea of mint frosting" type areas, since they're extremely flat

flat == less likely to tip over when you touch down

remember, Minmus has no atmosphere, so you'll need to slow down using your engines. kill your horizontal velocity first, then your vertical as you get close to the ground.

also, your altitude meter at the top of the screen is relative to those minty-looking oceans of gravel, so if you land on one of those beds, the altitude meter will read exactly 0

jokerdino

@sammyg the garden one

allquixotic

helpful for timing your final retro burns near the end

Bob

crap

went for an EVA

detached from ship

slowly trying to get back :P

allquixotic

yikes :S

quicksave often (with alt+f5)

Bob

@allquixotic I don't have anything ot land on

I mean, no landing struts

and I still have a giant fuel tank attached :S

I've been using the small engines for maneuvering

allquixotic

16:30

@Bob with no landing struts you'll have to come in under 7 m/s or your engine will explode

Bob

since they generate no electricity, decided to keep a little fuel and the big engine

unfortunately, can't land this time

allquixotic

@Bob so you're just not gonna land?

Bob

PHEW

back on board

allquixotic

:)

Bob

@allquixotic ya, I'll prepare better for next time

I can't store enough science to be worth it anyway :P

sammyg

16:32

what is jre-8u5-windows-x64.tar.gz?

Bob

@sammyg jre => java runtime environment

allquixotic

@sammyg looks like source code

Bob

8u5 => version 8 update 5

windows and x64 should be self-explanatory

barlop

@sammyg sounds like the fundamental files required for java maybe though I didn't know they'd put it in source code

allquixotic

> windows

> .tar.gz

Bob

16:33

and, yea, .tar.gz is normally source code

allquixotic

if it were the runtime itself it'd be .exe or .zip

sammyg

@Bob even on windows? why not zip?

Bob

@allquixotic or whoever packaged it has a weird sense of humor :P

allquixotic

@Bob lol

sammyg

hehe, oracle did it

oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/…

Bob

16:34

@allquixotic I'll try a couple of times to land

it probably won't go well :P

allquixotic

yeah, source code

barlop

yeah obviously oracle. they do make it you know

allquixotic

they should be super evil / bad-mannered and compress it using .cpio.Z

barlop

they have an EXE version too

sammyg

@barlop yeah, me know, i just got the exe... just weird that they would pack it as .tar.gz

they expect me to examine it on linux

barlop

16:36

you can probably open a .tar.gz on windows with 7zip

and if you can't. then you probably shouldn't be opening it

source code is for programmers not for idiots

that may be why they didn't make it a zip

they want to scare off idiots from downloading it

allquixotic

@barlop gee, that's not very nice

sammyg

"The tar format continues to be used extensively in Unix, Linux and OS X. Linux versions use features prominently in various software distributions, with most software source code made available in .tar.gz (gzip compressed tar archives). The tar format is a basis of some types of containment and distribution."

barlop

@allquixotic well can you think of any reasons why?

sammyg

@barlop sounds about reasonable

allquixotic

@barlop sure: maybe they wanted to release the code in the same file format for all platforms

also, for zillions of little teeny files, .tar.gz compresses better than zip

barlop

16:39

well, .zip for linux would've annoyed linux users ;-)

allquixotic

also

141

A: What is the advantage of using 'tar' today?

Part 1: Performance Here is a comparison of two separate workflows and what they do. You have a file on disk blah.tar.gz which is, say, 1 GB of gzip-compressed data which, when uncompressed, occupies 2 GB (so a compression ratio of 50%). The way that you would create this, if you were to do ar...

@barlop uh, not really? there's unzip, then every single desktop environment has an unzip utility, even LXDE

barlop

hmm, was unzip pre pkzip

allquixotic

I guarantee you they didn't release it that way with the intention of being elitist or preventing people who don't know what a .tar.gz is from opening it. There has to be some sensible technical reason, like, say, their build farm compresses all the source code for all platforms the same way, or whatever.

barlop

yeah that's more likely i suppose

allquixotic

!!tell 15414533 wiki Info-ZIP

ChatBot John Cavil

16:42

Info-ZIP

Info-ZIP is a set of open-source software to handle ZIP archives. It has been in circulation since 1989. It consists of 4 separately-installable packages: the Zip and UnZip command-line utilities; and WiZ and MacZip, which are graphical user interfaces for archiving programs in Microsoft Windows and classic Mac OS, respectively. Info-ZIP's Zip and UnZip have been ported to dozens of computing platforms. The UnZip web page describes UnZip as "The Third Most Portable Program in the World", surpassed by Hello World, C-Kermit, and possibly the Linux kernel. The "zip" and "unzip" prog...

Bob

@allquixotic Heh, almost.

But it was in a mountainous area, and the engine and fuel tank explodededed

barlop

so did windows beat unix on zip?

allquixotic

@Bob aww :(

barlop

pkzip was a classic dos program

Bob

I think I'd rather go back and try again, rather than land, transmit and hope for rescue :P

sammyg

16:44

just downloaded it for fun, i was able to unpack it with peazip

peazip uses 7zip

allquixotic

@barlop not Windows, no, but DOS did... by 2 months

PKZIP was released on 01/11/1989, and UnZip was released on 03/03/1989

sammyg

jre-8u5-windows-x64.tar.gz 48.8 MB
jre1.8.0_05.zip 47.6 MB

i unpacked it and then repacked it as zip

barlop

hah

sammyg

normal compression

barlop

and by the way, pkzip had an -ex option for extreme compression. i guess winzip does in gui too

and people often got better compression with RAR

allquixotic

16:48

@barlop that just using a larger dictionary, AFAIK. UnZip supports that too. really nothing revolutionary

sammyg

zip this, zip that... whatever guys... don't fight over it, but what's the most common file format for source file packages for windows programs?

allquixotic

@Bob if you transmit, you lose science value for things other than reports (reports can be transmitted at zero loss of value), which sucks

@sammyg "the most common" depends more on the organizational culture of the releasing organization than on the date or time it was published

hell, for many modern open source Windows programs, the "most common file format" is git clone on Github

you won't be able to find anything very conclusive about what's "the most common" aside from the fact that Zip is used a lot for stuff -- but not because it's particularly good; just because every single person has a way to unzip it already installed on their system

then there are weird community cultures like the game modding community that tends to release their stuff in rar format for whatever random reason

even though 7-zip is better in every way

barlop

.jar is a container of many java files

allquixotic

LZMA2 is the state of the art general purpose lossless compression algorithm, and so far, only the 7z format and the Xz archive format support LZMA2 (WinZip's non-standard LZMA1 inside Zip containers is a close runner up)

@barlop no, .jar is a renamed .zip file; it isn't a separate file format in any way, shape or form, it's just named differently

if i have a zip file of pictures and i rename it pictures.jar, it doesn't automatically start containing java files instead of pictures

actually the Office 2007+ document formats are exactly the same way: a .docx or .xlsx or .pptx is also just a zip file, except in this case it contains OOXML and some binary data files

barlop

interesting

sammyg

16:56

@allquixotic so we can conclude that zip and rar is the most common archive formats for source code on windows?

allquixotic

@sammyg no; to say that is missing my point

if you mean globally, then I'd wager that Zip (more specifically, the Zip archive format combined with the DEFLATE compression algorithm) is the most commonly used compression in the world, whether or not the file extension is named ".zip"; but that doesn't mean "Windows source code" is always, or even commonly, distributed that way

sammyg

@allquixotic just kidding! :)

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