Root Access

DragonLord

00:05

I've decided to change the font used for fierydragonlord.com

Is the font size (CSS font-size: large) appropriate?

Ping me with any comments or suggestions.

allquixotic

00:24

@DragonLord looks fine to me

I've seen some sites that use bigger fonts

@DragonLord good short writeup on heartbleed. funnily enough it has zero impact on us where I work :)

IBM z/Architecture mainframes running IBM z/OS with IBM DB2 database and IBM Web Application Server JavaEE stack. also known as the IIIJ stack (as opposed to LAMP, etc)

no OpenSSL in there :)

Journeyman Geek

lol

William Lawn Stewart

Hit two servers here, a soon to be production server plus the internal "do everything samba/gateway/web applications/vpn" server, which was only vulnerable via the VPN

Journeyman Geek

I don't use ssl >_>

well directly.

William Lawn Stewart

The current production server was safe because it is too ancient

Journeyman Geek

lol

DragonLord

00:34

There's a little sprinkle of responsive Web design on the main site (try reducing the width of your browser window)

However, I couldn't get the font sizes right on iOS

allquixotic

02:14

rcritten.fedorapeople.org/nss_compat_ossl.html

that project may gain new traction from people not trusting openssl after heartbleed

Journeyman Geek

02:54

bleh

tries to remember what's the logic he had when he compressed installer isos

My cheapie USB keys are here though

so I can start on the rebuilds :)

Journeyman Geek

03:13

hm

Bob

03:28

@allquixotic Heh. Apparently the NSS docs are much neater. And the code, too.

Hm.

Boris_yo

04:06

Why people tag me on photos of my family tree at the time I haven't been born? Is this what tagging is about?

I thought tagging should be done only if person is on photo.

Bob

Boris_yo

How am I gonna send smartphone to service center if I have no backup phone to use whole former is being fixed?

Psycogeek

04:32

@Boris_yo throwaway phone? cheap simple phone only phones that just work.

Michael Frank

04:45

Huh... According to Lastpass, I only have 7 accounts that could have been compromised by Hearthbleed.

Boris_yo

04:59

Facebook maintains status quo by running ad network filled with bots:

►

@Psycogeek I have ordered battery for Sony Ericsson

Then realized while charging indicator shows it's charging state, battery does not charge. How possible?

Bob

05:16

WTF

docs.google.com/presentation/d/…

how the fuck does someone use 9 GB of RAM in a single browser tab?

Boris_yo

Solution to T290i not charging battery:

WTF solution is this?

@Bob Tab had not been closed a long time on machine that hasn't been restarted long time?

Bob

@Boris_yo What is your definition of "long time"? Five millennia?

Michael Frank

05:45

@Bob Show all emails?

Also, I literally just opened Gmail and it's using 240MB of memory already.

Boris_yo

@Bob Weeks, months

My most engaged question lately on SuperUser

21

Q: Why half of my RAM of 8GB is missing?

Have been sitting with 8GBs of RAM for 2 years still thinking I needed another 4GBs and never questioning why so often I get message about low physical memory that would close all open programs (Firefox mostly since it is mainly what I use) if not paid attention to immediately. I would then have ...

@Bob You have been right obviously but I am testing.

o.0

Bob

That... is a shitton of handles.

How do they even manage that? O_O

Boris_yo

06:01

@Bob Dell WLAN Tray Utility - a class action suit is waiting to happen.

Hah I wonder if I paid $199 for Press Release and brought public's attention to that. What would happen?

If I used mediator for this...

Lol, 6 years promised solution from Dell and none so far...

Boris_yo

06:19

en.community.dell.com/support-forums/network-internet-wireless/…

Journeyman Geek

06:41

hm

odd. The new drives test alright for readyboost on my two systems

but not the core 2 duo

Sathya

Are you still there, server? It's me, Margaret.

Maxx Daymon

Hi Boris_yo, I just found the chat room. :)

There he went..

Psycogeek

10:14

@Boris_yo is easily possible to flow power into a battery and not have it "accept" the charge. for the battery to be bad, and the power going in to no longer be properly converting the chemicals to the charged state. (if that is what you were asking)? If a battery heats up instead of charging this can also blow the F up the battery :-)

Psycogeek

10:48

@Boris_yo The guy in this video is being rather nice. If I saw what he is seeing, i would first suspect that facebook (itself) is machine generating BullCrap for advertising dollers. And why should facebook be any different than a lot of other scam, fraud, bot, and mindless clicking for funds? How many times have you seen an active attempt to get users to "bot" thier way to a site, they frankly could care less about?

Psycogeek

11:01

He also makes it sound like there would be a humans involved in pressing a button on a computer? How is a "like" required to have a human involved? Heck we had the computer playing Bingo for about $500 a month, there is a computer that plays Jeapordy better than 15 year jeapordy vetrans.

Oliver Salzburg

11:24

How do you copy an existing Windows system to a new disk if the target disk is smaller than the source?

Journeyman Geek

You shrink it first?

William Lawn Stewart

shrink the partitions, then copy the partitions

Oliver Salzburg

That sounds like a plan

William Lawn Stewart

The DRBL live CD should be able to handle all of it

From prior attempts, shrinking the disk within windows generally doesn't work out that well

Journeyman Geek

oh, you use something that shrinks the drive on the next reboot.

ANNOYINGLY, the software I'd probably have used are spammy little cowpies and I as such wouldn't recommend them cause of that

William Lawn Stewart

11:28

drbl.sourceforge.net/download

Boots up a Debian UI with Clonezilla and GParted

I used to use some shareware style software, but it had some partition alignment issues and was really slow

Journeyman Geek

thats cute. DOID is actually slow enough that my compression jobs arn't processor limited

Oliver Salzburg

I have two systems here which I want to migrate to SSDs. Both have larger source disks. I tried to do it with EaseUS Partition Master, didn't work

Didn't work == System won't boot Windows

William Lawn Stewart

Windows is rather finicky

Oliver Salzburg

But the thing already messed up the System Reserved partition. Created it with 25 GB on one system

William Lawn Stewart

I have grown to appreciate just how hardware agnostic Linux is, absolute lifesaver in my workplace

Oliver Salzburg

11:32

I've had my fair share of Linux boot problems as well :P

But I don't want problems today. I want solutions!

William Lawn Stewart

Only problem I've had is when I had to do a hot backup of the primary server into a virtual machine, and I managed to get it to boot after helping it find the kernel

That was... fun

Journeyman Geek

hmm

I wonder

William Lawn Stewart

The only catch with the Clonezilla partition thing

Is that you need to create the partitions on the new drive manually matching the old one after its resize

(well, I had to when I did it)

Journeyman Geek

Could you fire up an install off a restore drive?

Oliver Salzburg

Huh?

@WilliamLawnStewart We'll see where this goes :D

Journeyman Geek

11:38

I just find it wierd its impossible to get windows 8.1 media ;p

Oliver Salzburg

@JourneymanGeek Well, can't you download the ISO and create a media?

Journeyman Geek

@OliverSalzburg: I could, in theory

Mines upgraded off windows 8

and I'm PRETTY certain I needed my windows 8 iso to refresh

William Lawn Stewart

I'm still on 8.0, should probably upgrade soonish

Oliver Salzburg

It seems like I'm not up to date on the Windows version numbering

William Lawn Stewart

@OliverSalzburg linuxnorth.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/…

Step by step from someone who cloned their dual boot machine to a smaller drive

Oliver Salzburg

11:46

Yeah, seems straight forward

Sadly, one of the machines I have to try it on is this one :P

So... bbl

William Lawn Stewart

good luck!

Oliver Salzburg

12:05

Man, this laptop loves updates!

It seems like it can't get enough of them

Journeyman Geek

12:26

so, it worked?

Oliver Salzburg

No, still in progress

I just switched to the laptop to pass the time

I'm currently in the cloning phase. At 7%

This DRBL setup is really sweet

Graham Wager

13:09

Well it's been a while since I've lurked in here, but I saw this and just had to come back

github.com/citizenmatt/resharper-clippy

(or for those that don't click unsolicited shortened links: github.com/citizenmatt/resharper-clippy )

Oliver Salzburg

13:22

Yay. Windows is starting

Andrea Colonna

Hello, Super Users! I've been sent here from superuser.com/questions/740510/…. Is there anyone who feels like weighing in on that?

Journeyman Geek

@AndreaColonna: actually, you wouldn't need liquid cooling for a mini itx gaming box

Modern CPUs do run rather cool (and I have a PIV mini ITX somewhere without liquid cooling)

What would you do for a monitor?

Andrea Colonna

Yes, that is part of the problem; I do have a monitor at home, but I wouldn't like to have to move it as well

but then that would mean that I would have to buy a new one wherever I end up doing my PhD

Journeyman Geek

Yup

and that would be an issue with any form factor

allquixotic

@AndreaColonna a mini ITX computer coupled with a small, portable monitor is basically a "detached" laptop -- impossible to use in cramped spaces (such as on an airplane), no battery, and just as expensive hardware-wise as a gaming laptop

the only "extra" you'd be paying for on a laptop is the battery, which will incur you about a $100 - $200 cost depending on battery size and complexity

Andrea Colonna

13:34

I see

allquixotic

the rest is going to be similarly priced to a portableish desktop

unfortunately the only way to really game on the go is to bite the bullet and spend $2000+ for a good, large, heavy laptop with a good, large, power-hungry discrete GPU

and by "really" I mean recent AAA games, not just casual stuff like Hearthstone

if you're a casual gamer and you don't play the latest graphically intense games, you can probably go with an iGPU laptop, which are much cheaper

Andrea Colonna

well, I'd like to able to play The Witcher III whenever it finally is released, so I guess I'm talking about "really" gaming

allquixotic

yeah, that's a fairly high-end game, so iGPU is out, heh

when I had an internship on the opposite side of the country (the US, so that's about 2800 miles or 4500 km) I shipped my full ATX gaming desktop tower across the country. round trip cost me about $300

still cheaper and less hassle than buying a gaming laptop

when I'm physically mobile (on a bus, plane, train, or waiting at a doctor's office, or waiting at a train station, etc) I'm pretty satisfied with the games available on my Android devices (a Nexus 7 and my awesome smartphone)

Journeyman Geek

I do believe there's SFF cases that could fit a 'proper' gaming box

allquixotic

as of now, I don't own a gaming laptop, so I simply do without the capability of playing The Witcher III while I'm on a train

Andrea Colonna

13:39

I wouldn't care about playing The Witcher III on a train either XD

Journeyman Geek

tomshardware.com/reviews/cooler-master-haf-xb-review,3559.html

@allquixotic: I also figure my desktop will last longer

allquixotic

@AndreaColonna my Surface Pro can play Civilization V just fine, and it has an Ivy Bridge, non-Iris iGPU

Journeyman Geek

(but I just rebuilt the shared desktop ;p)

allquixotic

I have an idea, and it's a risk, but it could pan out: you could go for a laptop that has an "Iris Pro 5200" iGPU

it's a high-end Intel Haswell iGPU, and it benchmarks similarly to a low-end Nvidia GeForce 600 series

it could probably play The Witcher III on low detail and acceptable FPS, and any lower-end game on medium or high detail at great FPS

the nice thing about getting an iGPU is that your battery will last way longer, the laptop will be lighter, the laptop can have a smaller actual battery (while still lasting longer), and it'll cost about $500-$750 less than a laptop with a dGPU

Journeyman Geek

pity no one's thought of making a laptop with a proper PCI x16 out ;p

then you could plug a GPU with its own power supply for gaming

allquixotic

13:42

@JourneymanGeek I thought Thunderbolt has enough throughput and low enough latency that they have GPU enclosures that communicate over tbolt?

Journeyman Geek

(no, not that tbolt BS, or that other wierd thing people do with wassname)

@allquixotic: massively expensive

IIRC you can do the same with a card slot, and some now fairly inexpensive gear iirc

allquixotic

notebookcheck.net/Intel-Iris-Pro-Graphics-5200.90965.0.html

mysn.co.uk/schenker-s413

that's actually a really awesome looking laptop :D

really slim, lots of USB ports and Iris Pro 5200

Andrea Colonna

I don't know, I mean, an iGPU does not sound like the safest bet :D

allquixotic

@AndreaColonna well, if you're unable to live with anything less than highest detail @ 60+ FPS, you're going to have to forget about size, cost and form factor, and just flat out buy at least a large enough system to slot one dual-slot, current-gen GPU with active cooling (note that small form factor PSUs that can put out enough power to run one of those are hideously expensive compared to their larger alternatives)

you're just not going to get cheap, high performance and mobile all in one package -- not with the requirement of "plays Witcher III at 60 FPS and max detail"

Andrea Colonna

I can live with 30 FPS

allquixotic

13:51

not possible. you'll necessarily have to give up either (1) cheap, or (2) high performance, or (3) mobile

Andrea Colonna

and without full HD

allquixotic

@AndreaColonna ok, sounds like you're willing to give up (2) then... in that case, Iris Pro is probably for you! because it's cheap (relatively speaking) and mobile

Andrea Colonna

okay, thanks for the advice!

allquixotic

your other choice is something like this

Andrea Colonna

(and here I was, hoping I could avoid using a mobile GPU somehow, lol)

allquixotic

13:55

@AndreaColonna but you want it to be a mobile device!

you want a laptop that's not a laptop

it's not a reasonable proposition

Andrea Colonna

you are so right it hurts

allquixotic

here is a comparison of the Nvidia 765M vs the Iris Pro 5200

a "low-end" Alienware will run you about $1000 USD (probably more if you're purchasing within the EU; VAT and all), and although the dGPU does outperform Iris Pro 5200 in almost all aspects (better pixel fill rate, but worse shader performance), the Alienware will run hotter, louder, and worse battery life

I guess the Alienware would give better FPS in games though. probably.

*shrug* if it were me I'd take Iris Pro 5200, but I value battery life; you may not

Andrea Colonna

I do, I do

allquixotic

dGPU adds significantly to weight, for two reasons. one, the card itself (and its heatsink and fans). two, you need a much bigger battery to support it

so that much really makes it hard for them to design effective, well-rounded laptops running a dGPU

the battery tech. we have today is barely adequate to run such a hungry card

Intel's iGPUs are made with a smaller fabrication size than even the latest dedicated graphics cards, because Intel's foundries have been pumping out 22nm chips since late 2011, while all the graphics cards from AMD and Nvidia are still on a 28nm process at least through Q4 2014 (or possibly longer)

smaller fab size = better performance density (more power per unit-volume; less weight; less power consumption)

Andrea Colonna

So basically this is a suboptimal time to buy a dGPU

I guess Iris Pro it shall be, then

allquixotic

14:03

well, I imagine that once TSMC has a 20nm process, it will be at least easier for AMD or Nvidia to release a dGPU that, while it can run all the latest games, is optimized for ultra low size and power consumption, and maybe even runs without its own dedicated fan

of course it is entirely possible that Nvidia and AMD will take that new 20nm process and continue to pump out hot-running, hungry chips that max out the power budget of even the most advanced lithium batteries. bleh

if you're willing to let weight and battery life and cost take a lower priority to sheer performance, though, you can definitely get "desktop-like" gaming experiences on some of these true gaming laptops which have high-end dGPUs in them

it'll just be a short-lived experience if you're away from a power outlet :P

(since the battery will run dry in like 1-2 hours)

Oliver Salzburg

I don't know how I feel about this

Andrea Colonna

I can deal with having a lower battery life, but I'm not sure I'm willing to deal with ludicrous costs, especially for something I will not be able to upgrade easily if at all

allquixotic

@AndreaColonna you would have to carefully research the exact model of laptop you buy, if upgradeability is important to you

Andrea Colonna

oh, wow, who wouldn't want to be a .ninja? :D

allquixotic

@AndreaColonna there may still be some laptops on the market where you can physically remove the dedicated graphics card and slot in a new one, just like a desktop

but the majority of them are starting to solder the GPU onto the motherboard

...in which case, you're stuck with it for the lifetime of the laptop

Andrea Colonna

14:08

@allquixotic yeah, I know, that's why I'm not counting on that

Well, thanks again @allquixotic and @JourneymanGeek. You have been quite helpful

allquixotic

@AndreaColonna wish I could provide a better solution, but the goals of performance, battery life, mobility and cost are pretty much antagonistic to one another, so the best you can do is set your threshold requirements for each one and create a max-min problem, then solve for X :P

X lies somewhere between either an Iris Pro laptop, or a laptop with a low-end dGPU, in my opinion -- for your specific scenario

certainly I don't see a plug-in mini ITX box being advantageous in any way, since you won't save significantly on cost, and you lose the mobility of being able to use it (even if just to check your email) while you're out and about

Andrea Colonna

I feel like I can miss out on outdoors usage, but not on ease of transportation

allquixotic

@AndreaColonna well if you're willing to have a monitor to plug it in wherever you'll be using it (and a keyboard and mouse), then a small ITX box might work

but if that's going to be a problem for you, if you aren't sure you'll be able to arrange that, then you probably need to "bring your own monitor", which is also popularly known as a laptop

Andrea Colonna

:D

yes

allquixotic

@AndreaColonna what's your PhD in?

Andrea Colonna

14:20

observational cosmology

allquixotic

huh! that sounds interesting :)

Andrea Colonna

I can't wait to leave this hell of a country (Italy), but I also know I should come back here once in a while

well, gotta go now

thanks again for the help :)

allquixotic

np

Ash

@Bob reply np (64kb)

allquixotic

@Ash ijpafemapwef-4jfjasdfiviq34g=q334f134-tg=easdfMYPASSWORD';1234,123516=141;[[0-12‌51,103063.209-5=...

Ash

14:26

@allquixotic :p

can I find a private key in there ?

HackToHell

14:41

@Ash Cloudfare has a public server that has heartbleed

Seriously fuck pointers :P

allquixotic

@HackToHell pointers are fine; the disease is the poor organizational culture of the OpenSSL developers

to write C code that's efficient, portable, and free of security vulnerabilities or functionality bugs, requires a tremendous amount of organizational procedure, Q&A, testing, code review, standards guidelines, static analysis, and on and on. basically Linux is the shining example, but there are others

OpenSSL seems to be more or less a "whatever works" type of culture

they seem to have no problem implementing a lot of features and making them fairly performant, but they don't have enough internal checks on the security aspect

although in this day and age, practically any software package is a theoretical point of compromise, no matter how good the policy and practices

watch -- I'll start singing the praises of NSS because it hasn't had a major vulnerability, then people will start looking at it and find major stuff and I'll cry

HackToHell

Why do services that critical run as root

Someone should modify the kernel so that webservers can run in usermode :P

I don't really understand what I'm saying

allquixotic

14:57

@HackToHell because on most systems, the differences in the severity of compromise between a user account and a root account is not all that great -- a great deal of bad behavior is possible by running native code even as the nobody account

@HackToHell uh, web servers do run in usermode, and they often run as an unprivileged account

the general problem is that someone who has local system access (i.e., the ability to run whatever code they want) is probably going to be able to find a privilege escalation exploit somewhere within your system; obtain root; then wreak havoc

we're constantly trying to detect and then close privilege escalation exploits, but there have been thousands of them detected, and the chance of just one being unpatched on your system is quite high, considering how many of them are known, and how many not-yet-published ones are likely out there

that's why, for instance, almost every Android phone ever released has been rooted... same reason... allowing the execution of arbitrary native code

BGM

15:20

@allquixotic Hello! Do you have a minute or three?

allquixotic

@BGM perhaps

it's a slow Friday; just failing a few security tests ;)

BGM

Ha ha. Okay, maybe this will be more interesting.

We acquired a new building and I need to spec a computer for the conference room. Only this time it's not using a projector, but needs to connect to an HDTV as it's primary display.

allquixotic

oh goodie

similar use case requirements as the previous box?

considering you proved to be a competent system integrator once you purchased the components for the last one, I think we can build you a box out of parts :D

BGM

So we have a Sharp Aquos TV screen - the non-smart version (my boss purchased this without my opinion...) that receives HDMI. He got a Samsung HDMI switch, too.

allquixotic

OK! well, HDMI is an extremely common output for modern graphics cards, both integrated and discrete, so I don't see that being an impedance at all

BGM

15:25

So I've installed a console in the wall just above a sideboard table that runs along the side of the conference room. I've got to consoles there. Both have network (LAN), and both have a high-speed hdmi cables that run through the wall from the jacks to the HDMI switch mounted about the TV screen.

The idea is that there is a default computer always available, but if you want to jack in your laptop, you can use the second console set.

allquixotic

HAHA! I found our convo from about 14 months ago where we specced out the last box

Jan 14 '13 at 19:26, by BGM

And you don't see any problem with a AMD E-350 APU (1.6GHz, Dual-Core)? That's kind of slow for a CPU, no?

that's around the start of the convo

BGM

Thus there is an HDMI jack for the default computer (the one I'm speccing) and an HDMI jack for the guest cmputer. The TV is 1080p.

I have the specs also from the last system.

Here are some links I've come up with:

http://smile.amazon.com/Shuttle-SH87R6-Generation-LGA1150-Barebone/dp/B00FBSSXFU/ref=sr_1_12?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1397158814&sr=1-12&keywords=barebones

http://smile.amazon.com/Crucial-PC3-10600-240-Pin-Unbuffered-CT2CP102464BA1339/dp/B005NU48JG/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1397160219&sr=1-7&keywords=DDR3-1333

http://smile.amazon.com/Intel-i5-4430-Quad-Core-Desktop-Processor/dp/B00CO8T9VC/ref=pd_sim_pc_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0WZFPATPJBQTERJ80DM9

http://smile.amazon.com/Blu-Ray-Player-External-Laptop-Burner/dp/B001TVAU0E/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1397229258&sr=1-3&keywords=blue+r…

allquixotic

sounds like it's going to be a pretty good build, judging from the utilities setup :)

checking

BGM

The HDMI switch outputs to some speakers, so I need to be able to send audio over the HDMI cables from the computer to the HDMI switch.

allquixotic

looks like this box will be even faster than the last one

BGM

15:28

In my initial test, I hooked up my Dell Latitude laptop and it would not display until I used "Connect to Projector" - which, of course, does not output sound.

allquixotic

@BGM audio is a pretty standard component of HDMI-supporting graphics cards (and IGPs) these days

@BGM that laptop might just not support HDMI audio :/

BGM

Okay - so this new computer MUST support HDMI audio.

And I want to go with an SSD this time.

allquixotic

all Intel Haswell IGPs support HDMI audio :)

BGM

I have a NAS server we are configuring for network storage.

allquixotic

especially such a high-end box as a i5-4430 (well, not strictly high-end, but definitely several miles away from the "value" spectrum in the Pentium/Celeron/i3 range)

is the video performance on your previous build sufficient? I can't recall if we got you an AMD or an Intel box

BGM

15:30

So, those things I stuck together, will they work together, then?

@allquixotic Yes, I think the video performance was okay - that other computer is nice, but the Control4 it connects to is all a mess and I have to undo it.

But that's another episode.

The previous machine was Chipset/Southbridge: Intel® Z77 Express (codename: Panther Point)

allquixotic

@BGM quick looksie suggests yes it will almost assuredly work

BGM

I think it was Ivy Bridge

allquixotic

ah OK, so we went with an Ivy Bridge proc last time. it was an i5, if I recall

so this is going to be a nice upgrade :) it'll have much faster graphics performance, and about 5-10% faster CPU performance

BGM

No it was: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-3225 CPU @ 3.30GHz

allquixotic

from Ivy Bridge to Haswell, the most noticeable change is that the iGPU is way faster. the CPU is faster, but not noticeably so

oh wow, ok

so from an Ivy Bridge i3 to a Haswell i5... significant faster ;)

BGM

15:33

And we put 16gb RAM in it.

allquixotic

yeah, that's plenty for video and web and email and presentations

BGM

I have Windows 7 pro to put on it.

It will be used mostly for video and skype

allquixotic

meh, I prefer Windows 8.1 Pro with Start8, but to each their own :)

BGM

Windows 8... I don't like to change.... I put ClassicShell on my windows 2012 server because I couldn't stand it.

So, this setup will work with the tv, do you think?

allquixotic

@BGM sure, but Start8 is strictly better than ClassicShell (though it has a one-time inexpensive license fee of like $5), and the core system components (kernel, core services, etc) are faster with Windows 8 (moreso with 8.1)

yeah it'll work

BGM

15:36

What about a graphics card?

allquixotic

@BGM do you think you need one? I don't think you will

BGM

okay, great!

One reason I chose this machine is it has a regular-size HDMI port instead of a dinky mini.

allquixotic

even for skype video conferencing I can't see a GPU being at all beneficial

that i5-4430 will be awesome for that use case

BGM

So I need a hard disk for it, too, I think.

I've had some bad experience matching hard drives to motherboards.

allquixotic

thing is, there's an enormous performance gap between iGPUs and mid-range to high-end dedicated GPUs, but the only applications that actually use that extra performance are 3D games and scientific computing applications ;p

BGM

15:38

In two cases it turned out that the motherboard would not work with the HDD I had.

allquixotic

@BGM huh, odd

BGM

The computer wouldn't boot - two cases.

allquixotic

you said you wanted an SSD?

BGM

YEs.

I think.

allquixotic

SSDs are expensive. you gonna be storing much data on this system? if it's just going to be the OS + installed programs + web browser cache + the occasional PowerPoint presentation, you could probably get away with like a 120GB SSD, but if it's going to be archiving video or music, you'd need more

BGM

15:39

It doesn't have lots of storage. No archiving.

allquixotic

k, 120GB SSD will work :)

checking form factor of your system

BGM

Also - the memory I chose - what do you think?

allquixotic

Crucial's a pretty good brand

2x8 is a good configuration

yay, your chosen chassis (the Shuttle) can slot 3.5" disks :) two of them, not that you'll need two

BGM

Well, if I need storage on that machine, I have a few extra 3.5 disks.

allquixotic

so you're looking at a budget of about $79 - $89 for a 120GB SSD

BGM

15:42

less is better. This is already expensive.

allquixotic

you're going to need a 2.5" to 3.5" adapter, because I haven't seen any SSDs that actually come in 3.5" form factor

well they exist but they cost thousands of dollars :P

BGM

I never thought of needing an adapter. I'm glad you are here!

allquixotic

hey, I found one that comes with a 2.5" to 3.5" adapter, included in the price

BGM

I have to buy you a beer sometime.

allquixotic

smile.amazon.com/Kingston-HyperX-2-5-Inch-SH103S3-120G/dp/…

that little guy has a 120GB 2.5" SSD, mounting screws, and a 2.5" to 3.5" adapter included in the package

should be all you need. the price is higher than some other ones that don't come with the adapter, but that's to be expected

you could, of course, buy a 2.5" without adapter, and then purchase a separate product for the adapter, but meh

BGM

15:45

It's 6 one way, half-dozen the other. Either way it'll cost the same or more.

allquixotic

adapters cost 6 - 10 bucks anyway, so the 10 buck increased price of that SSD is basically equivalent to buying a separate mounting bracket

personally I'd prefer less complicated packaging and shipping, so, bracket-included is what I'd go for

BGM

me too, actually.

allquixotic

oh also

did you know that your Shuttle case can slot a 5.25" internal DVD player?

unless you have a specific reason to use an external, you can buy an internal player and install it into the chassis.

BGM

Yes, but I have to fit out with a blu-ray. Father wants blu-ray.

I was looking at this: smile.amazon.com/BUFFALO-USB-Portable-Writer-DVSM-PC58U2VB/dp/…

allquixotic

ok, but you can have an internal blu-ray player too

Ariane

15:47

Is someone familiar with Windows language packs? I just installed WIndows 7 Ultimate on my grandmother's computer and installed the French language pack, and then I copied the settings to make the welcome screen be in French as well, so nearly everything is in French now. Except Windows Update itself. It's no big issue, but I'm wondering if I can do something about it.

allquixotic

maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have one of these than having a separate blu-ray player hanging outside the unit

BGM

which means I could use it on other computers. An internal one requires software, too... I purchased a license for Cyberlink some time ago.

allquixotic

@BGM an internal one wouldn't necessarily require software -- it's plug and play -- the only software you'd need is for burning disks with content other than files -- but you have a point that you could use it on other computers if you get external

if using it on other computers is desirable, then yes, get the external, case closed :P

BGM

Other than not having any space taken up outside the case, is there any advantage to an internal drive?

allquixotic

@BGM lower price? you're not paying for an enclosure

BGM

15:49

The external drive was cheaper....

allquixotic

oh, haha

as you were then :)

Ariane

I reckon it's probably a bit faster, since it'll likely be using SATA rather than USB and whatnot

allquixotic

@Ariane is right

BGM

@Ariane good point!

allquixotic

USB is a significantly higher overhead protocol than SATA; you'd want to get one that supports eSATA or USB 3.0 to reduce that

BGM

15:50

@Ariane Sorry, I don't know anything about language packs.

allquixotic

USB 2.0 is not really sufficient

BGM

Okay, I'm sold on the SATA.

allquixotic

OH. you know why your external is cheaper?

it can only burn DVD. it can't burn BluRay.

BGM

bulk production?

allquixotic

the internal one I linked you can burn BluRay, DVD and CD

BGM

15:51

I doubt we'll ever burn a blu-ray anyway...

allquixotic

@Ariane no idea on that :S if the rest of the OS is in French, it's quite the anomaly to see Windows Update in English

BGM

But I'll probably have to do it once per year. I have to do everything once per year.

Like crack pdf passwords - once per year, so I got this: aimersoft.com/pdf-password-remover.html it's still free for 7 hours, and it works. I tried it out on a pdf I made a few years ago.

allquixotic

@BGM hehe

I hate having to lay out money for something I'll only do once, but it happens surprisingly frequently

BGM

@Ariane Maybe reboot? That fixes 97% of all Windows errors.

@allquixotic so, that burner drive will fit in my case?

allquixotic

man, this bluray stuff is more complicated than I realized -- looks like there are tons of bluray Readers out there that can't do burning, and burning is an extra $25 or so

even the Asus internal drive I linked you above doesn't do bluray writing!

this one may be just about the cheapest bluray writer I can find: smile.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-Internal-Rewriter-WH14NS40/dp/…

but yeah, that form factor will fit your case

your case can handle one of those, as well as two 3.5" HDDs/SSDs

so you could have an internal SATA BluRay reader/writer, an SSD to have the operating system on, and if needed, an extra HDD for storage

plenty of room in that case, especially without a dedicated GPU

Ariane

15:56

@BGM Good point, I'm not even done updating anyway.

BGM

Great! Seems like a nice case. I guess it is good to have at least one blu-ray burner in the house.

@Ariane True - maybe the language pack won't have any effect until it's finished an in-progress update.

allquixotic

@BGM bluray writable disks are still fairly expensive, but they can store a ludicrous amount of data considering their size, cost, and easy portability

BGM

I think I've touched maybe 4 blu-ray disks in my lifetime.

allquixotic

thumb drives would be the other option for toting around gigabytes of data, but they'll probably be more expensive

BGM

True.

I have network storage anyway.

allquixotic

15:57

yeah

Ariane

I don't even know what a blu-ray disc looks like.

-.- Updating a new installation of Windows is such a pain.

allquixotic

it looks like a DVD with slightly different optical properties when you shine light on it :P

@Ariane :)

HackToHell

@Ariane I have seen a disc but have never actually seen anything in it

allquixotic

especially for older OSes like Windows 7

BGM

@allquixotic If I use the TV for a monitor, would there be any problem ever connecting to it for display? It will be a hard time for me if it did not display and you can't see what's happening.

Ariane

15:59

I'm not sure at all a PC external blu-ray reader would work on a TV.

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