Root Access

allquixotic

14:00

FXZ is just the file extension Motorola uses, I guess

> FXZ is an acronym for Full XML Zip file and is the format for most dual core Motorola firmware files.
They are an archive of all of the stock partition images for a given device to be flashed in fastboot with either RSD lite or using adb and the fastboot binary.

Journeyman Geek

I think we had this conversation before ;p

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek what conversion do we have in here that we haven't had before, by now? seriously...

Journeyman Geek

;p

allquixotic

I guess the heartbleed stuff is new, but... headphones, Android, dedi servers, SU trolls...

Journeyman Geek

I think I had that conversation on IRC

Yeah.

allquixotic

14:02

we retread our steps over and over

Journeyman Geek

It just slightly changes ;p

HackToHell

IRC in not blocked in my college, where do you hang out @JourneymanGeek

Journeyman Geek

@HackToHell: oh, some small community servers ages ago.

But basically it had the same folk for decades

Well at least one decade, so it got boring

These days, mostly #battlechat on slashnet #akzidenz on freenode

Bob

This reminds me. We still need to set up an alternative chatroom (Just In Case (TM)) :P

Journeyman Geek

lol

HackToHell

14:09

Any decent IRC android client

allquixotic

@Bob the JS room folks are working on that

although honestly if it comes to that I have some of your email addies and we can use HipChat

HipChat has image oneboxing and conversation persistence

and a great Android app

Bob

So long (and thanks for all the fish), Windows XP.

Journeyman Geek

Andchat is nice

Bob

@allquixotic The name just rubs me wrong :P

allquixotic

@Bob it's an Atlassian product

it's incredibly good

Journeyman Geek

14:14

but if we're running our own IRC server, we should throw iris or qweb as a web client

HackToHell

allquixotic

> our own IRC server

could definitely do that on the box Cavil runs on

'course, since it's me running it, I'd require TLS to connect, and mandatory authentication :P

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: I occationally do it, but I'm currently waiting on rabbitirc to get usable ;p

allquixotic

what would be awesome is if I made it IPv6-only... then I would be the only one who could ever use it :D :D :D

and Bob could connect in about 2074

Oliver Salzburg

Journeyman Geek

14:16

@allquixotic: I have ipv6 ;p

HackToHell

@allquixotic ._.

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek nice! native?

Oliver Salzburg

Talk about a misleading headline

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: not quite. ipv6rd

HackToHell

@OliverSalzburg CNN table flip

Bob

14:17

I looked at some of the data dumps from vulnerable sites, and it was ... bad. I saw emails, passwords, password hints. SSL keys and session cookies. Important servers brimming with visitor IPs. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion, c-beams glittering in the dark near the TannhÃ¤user Gate. I should probably patch OpenSSL.

allquixotic

hehehehe XKCD

you know what would be incredible is if someone has known about this vulnerability since it was introduced (or even, hell, for a month or 2) and actively exploiting it all over the web before it was reported in public

imagine the amount of information they could have acquired

Journeyman Geek

(ipv6rd is... almost native but not quite)

Quite nice for dualstack though

and with a modern router, painless to set up

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek what's your score at test-ipv6.com ?

Bob

@allquixotic Not incredible at all, but very very scary.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: 10/10

allquixotic

14:22

@JourneymanGeek nice

same here

0/10 at work tho :P

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic I'm sure that's the case for this vulnerability and many other we don't know about yet

Bob

> TPG understood to be trialling IPv6 for customers and over its PIPE peering exchanges, though yet to officially offer support.

:(

Journeyman Geek

Bob

> TPG provides 6rd tunnel for 6 over 4. Just configured it in my modem/router and now I have working IPv6 access.

Hrm.

allquixotic

> In October 2010 Comcast made 6rd software for home gateway devices available via open source for free.[7]

one thing Comcast has done right in four years?

Journeyman Geek

14:26

lol

@allquixotic: starhub is odd.

They didn't allow you to use a router for ages. Then suddently they started giving WRT54GLs away

And they don't really advertise ipv6, but they support it

Bob

problem is, my modem isn't ipv6-capable anyway

Journeyman Geek

they also do native on fiber, but a lot of people bitch that its broken

allquixotic

@Bob does your ISP offer a newer modem model?

most ISPs somewhat silently release a new modem model approximately yearly with incremental enhancements, and sometimes something big like IPv6

Bob

@allquixotic I can just buy one myself :P

allquixotic

but they don't push very hard to get existing customers to upgrade

Bob

14:29

It's a pretty basic ADSL2+ modem/router/wap

allquixotic

ah. didn't realize you could just plug and play a COTS one. thought it was some kind of weird Australian Internet closed system where you had to have their modem

Bob

I have a dd-wrt router sitting behind it that can do ipv6 - I should probably just set up 6to4 there and be done with it

allquixotic

I thought it wasn't interoperable with other modems because every packet has to end with the string , mate.

Bob

@allquixotic Still can't find any official word on TPG's IPv6 offerings, so no reason to replace it yet

allquixotic

*snicker*

Journeyman Geek

14:30

ehlo_mate

allquixotic

we still don't know what the fox says, but we can be sure of one thing: everything he says ends in , mate

:)

it's OK @Bob, picking on you means we like you ;)

Bob

switches on ipv6 on dd-wrt

> Or you could bug your ISP about it, but they'll probably be like "IPvWHAT?"

XD

Ok, doublt-NAT is going to be a problem here.

wtf, my nearest 6to4 is on aarnet

didn't pipenetworks have one?

allquixotic

@Bob test-ipv6.com though? :D

Bob

@allquixotic it's a pain to set up on dd-wrt with double-nat

I'm trying to get radvd to use my actual public IP as the 6to4 address

fuck off clippy

Journeyman Geek

hm. Apparently my phone is ipv4 and possibly cgn.

HackToHell

14:42

instantga.me

Bob

damn it, I'll have to somehow forward "protocol 41"

howtf do you forward a protocol with this shitty modem

Journeyman Geek

lol. I've never actually found out how to do that

Bob

I might just set the internal router as a dmz host :\

allquixotic

I'm not on CGN, and my IPv6 isn't tunneled, it's actually native... best of all worlds

I lose IPv6 when my phone drops down to 3G, though, which wreaks havoc when I'm on IPv6 Google (the default) and suddenly chrome is like "i dunno how to get to google.com"

Journeyman Geek

(then again, I doubt I'd be hosting stuff off my phone proper)

Bob

14:45

... ... ...

List of available commands on the modem telnet interface:

 > help
?
help
logout
exit
quit
reboot
adsl
xdslctl
xtm
brctl
cat
loglevel
logdest
virtualserver
ddns
df
dumpcfg
dumpmdm
meminfo
psp
kill
dnsproxy
syslog
echo
ifconfig
ping
ps
pwd
sntp
sysinfo
tftp
wlctl
arp
defaultgateway
dhcpserver
dns
lan
lanhosts
passwd
ppp
remoteaccess
restoredefault
route
save
swversion
cfgupdate
swupdate
exitOnIdle
wan
macaddr
clearpsi
dhcp6c
ledset

It has dhcp6c O_O

allquixotic

brctl? nice!

'course you'd probably get permission denied for 98% of those things :/

Bob

@allquixotic nope

 > brctl
Usage: brctl [commands]
commands:
        addbr           <bridge>                add bridge
        delbr           <bridge>                delete bridge
        addif           <bridge> <device>       add interface to bridge
        delif           <bridge> <device>       delete interface from bridge
        setageing       <bridge> <time>         set ageing time
        setbridgeprio   <bridge> <prio>         set bridge priority
        setfd           <bridge> <time>         set bridge forward delay

prob is, I have no clue how to use it :P

Journeyman Geek

lol

I've used bridging before, but from /etc/networks/interfaces

Bob

o.O

50 processes?

 > sysinfo
Number of processes: 50
  1:49am  up 20:20,
load average: 1 min:0.00, 5 min:0.00, 15 min:0.00
              total         used         free       shared      buffers
  Mem:        28680        27128         1552            0         2276
 Swap:            0            0            0
Total:        28680        27128         1552

eh, not much

-g -t i -f filename server_ip   Get (flash) broadcom or whole image to modem
-g -t c -f filename server_ip   Get (flash) config file to modem
-p -f filename server_ip        Put (backup) config file to tftpd server

Hm.

Makes me wonder if I can grab a config file and pull it apart

allquixotic

lol only 1.5 megs of free memory

and only 2.2 megs of buffers o_O

that's an extremely lean firmware

Bob

14:53

 > echo /etc/dhcp*
/etc/dhcp /etc/dhcp6c.conf.sample /etc/dhcp6s.conf.sample
 > cat /etc/dhcp6s.conf.sample
option domain-name-servers 3ffe:ffff::100;

host kame {
        duid 02:10:18:40:88:04;
        prefix 3ffe:ffff:100::/48 infinity;
};

#interface br0 {
#       address-pool pool1 3600;
#};

#pool pool1 {
#       range 3ffe:ffff:100:0::55 to 3ffe:ffff:100:0::200;
#};

Hrm.

Why on earth does this thing have a dhcp6 client?

/etc/wrt54g.large.ico /etc/wrt54g.small.ico

allquixotic

my server has 29.8 gigs of page cache in RAM :P

Bob

It's not even a Linksys!

That Brazilian Guy

Someone opened this ticket on our system:

allquixotic

lol

That Brazilian Guy

Bob

14:54

Probably running some custom dd-wrt or openwrt build O_O

Journeyman Geek

;p

allquixotic

@Bob your modem?

uname -a

Bob

@allquixotic Modem/router/wap

Billion 7700N

@allquixotic the telnet server has a whitelisted set of commands

I don't think the damn thing even has uname

allquixotic

how about cat /etc/issue?

Bob

@allquixotic nope

 > echo /etc/*
/etc/adsl /etc/arl /etc/default.cfg /etc/dhcp /etc/dhcp6c.conf.sample /etc/dhcp6s.conf.sample /etc/dyntos.sh /etc/ethertypes /etc/filesystems /etc/fstab /etc/gateway.conf /etc/group /etc/inetd.conf /etc/init.d /etc/inittab /etc/iproute2 /etc/ipsec.conf /etc/ipv6_start.sample /etc/mdk /etc/modules_install /etc/mtab /etc/passwd /etc/ppp /etc/pppmsg /etc/profile /etc/psk.txt /etc/racoon.conf /etc/radvd.conf.sample /etc/resolv.conf /etc/rsa_host_key /etc/samba /etc/services /etc/snmp /etc/soft_bridge /etc/sysmsg /etc/udhcpd.conf /etc/udhcpd.leases /etc/vlan /etc/wlan /etc/wrt54g.…

allquixotic

14:55

oh, screw LSB standards -- I doubt it even has that

yet it seems to have a lot of .sample scripts

Bob

 > swversion
BiPAC 7700N

I am confused

 > echo /etc/ipsec*
/etc/ipsec.conf
 > cat /etc/ipsec.conf
cat: /etc/ipsec.conf: No such file or directory

allquixotic

@Bob cat: /bin/cat: Program has been modified to emit inconsistent results

Journeyman Geek

lol

"/bin/cat: Program has been modified with extra cattitude."

Bob

 > cat /etc/fstab
proc            /proc   proc    defaults        0       0
tmpfs           /var    tmpfs   size=420k       0       0
/dev/sda1       /mnt    vfat    noauto          0       0
tmpfs           /mnt    tmpfs   size=16k        0       0
sysfs           /sys    sysfs   defaults        0       0

allquixotic

cat: meow!

/bin/nikki: me!

Bob

14:59

The problem is, there's no good custom firmware with ADSL2+ modem support

allquixotic

(reference to earlier this morning)

Bob

hm. maybe I should bridge it

allquixotic

you know what's conspicuously missing from Android? iTunes. Microsoft Office has a decent port to Android. and Microsoft wants people to use Windows Phone. Why doesn't Apple come to Android too? who cares if they want everyone in the world to own an iPhone? it'll never happen.

they could make a lot more money if they decoupled their media offerings from their phone OS/hardware

heck it would even be fine if they had a one-time popup on app launch that says "Some stuff won't work 100% because we think iPhones are better than your Android crap"

just shut up and let me download that MP3

Bob

@allquixotic Who wants iTunes on Android?

Your phone would probably melt after 10 mins.

allquixotic

@Bob when they're the only digital shop carrying a song I want, me

I have to install it on a Windows desktop -- which is an incredible compromise/concession from Apple as it stands -- and buy the MP3, then transfer it to my cloud and phone

Journeyman Geek

15:05

lol

allquixotic

right now the situation with iTunes is very much a half-way house

on the one hand, they realize that only ever offering iTunes to people with iDevices or Macs would result in huge profit losses, so there's a native Windows port that works okay

on the other hand, they haven't brought it to Android, which is an enormously popular OS for music consumption

so they are very indecisive on this issue

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: or... they considers itunes on the pc as a way to hook people into the apple ecosystem

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek hard to imagine that bringing iTunes (or any of their other apps) to Android wouldn't do the same, yeah?

Google realizes the obvious benefits of pollinating other ecosystems with their apps. and the Google apps on iOS are fine

maybe they aren't as deeply integrated into the OS as they are on Android, but they work

Google's stuff is on Android, Windows Phone, Windows, Mac, Linux, and iOS. Microsoft's stuff is on Windows, Mac, Windows Phone, and Android. Apple's stuff is on iOS, Mac, and Windows. Hmm.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: for google, the ecosystem is not tied into the devices.

allquixotic

funnily enough, a company that I respect for their fair prices and excellent shipping infrastructure (packages get here fast and cheap!) -- Amazon -- is about as closed-off as you can get with their own digital content

you can track packages and buy MP3s and apps on non-Amazon Android devices, but that's about it -- there's a whole world of Amazon content (video, etc) that you can only see on Amazon devices (Kindle Fire, Amazon TV, etc.). bleh.

Bob

15:13

@allquixotic Google actively worked against WP8

allquixotic

@Bob a little, but that's just healthy competition -- they don't block their services entirely on WP8

you literally can't do business with Apple at all, for any of their content, unless you own some of their hardware or at least a Windows desktop

that takes the cake in terms of walled-gardenness, imo

I was kinda hoping Tim Cook would do less of that Steve Jobs "our way or the highway" mentality and more of the "open ecosystem" to give Microsoft and Google some competition in areas such as cloud, music and video, and possibly even search

Bob

damn it

can't get 6to4 working

@allquixotic No ipv6 here! :P

allquixotic

15:29

@Bob :(

Bob

Turns out, the dmz thing doesn't work for protocols other than TCP or UDP

I'd have to rip apart my network and bridge my modem

can't be bothered doing that

I do have a VPN for ipv6, but the exit is in the US, so... latency

allquixotic

!! s/la/USA/

ChatBot John Cavil

@allquixotic I do have a VPN for ipv6, but the exit is in the US, so... USAtency (source)

allquixotic

:-)

dat USAtency ... dedidirect? :P :P :P

inexpen$ive

takakunai desu yo

Bob

@allquixotic dedidirect wouldn't help with this :P

allquixotic

15:33

I know :/

but it would help with something :P

$$ :P

Bob

lol

allquixotic

but Core2 :/

:P :/ :P :/ :P :/

Oracle to me:

> Get $600 Off Admission to JavaOne By Registering Today

> $600 Off

how much more than $600 is it for a ticket to this bloody thing? !!no

Bob

o.O

allquixotic

> You pay only US$1,450!

Bob

> only

allquixotic

15:36

I don't even...

I always knew Oracle was expensive, but yeesh

Bob

@allquixotic It's enterprisey!

allquixotic

@Bob this is beyond enterprisey. that cost doesn't cover the expense of the hotel.

this is just downright wasteful

i can't imagine companies or government institutions spending something like $10,000 per person for people to go to this

that's how much it ends up being. flight plus accommodations plus admission

Bob

@allquixotic Neither can I. It has to be at least $100,000 per person.

allquixotic

@Bob lolwat

how are they going to spend that much :D

allquixotic

16:59

@OliverSalzburg why does "Germany" keep calling me?!?

they call and call and never leave a message

Boris_yo

So I wake laptop from standby and boom! Screen freezes, computer freezes, no sound from cooler coming. Only hard reset works. Weird...

Canadian Luke

Stuck on level 15, with lazers!

That Brazilian Guy

@allquixotic Oliver is trying to warn you about something, but is stopped every time. I bet his workplace was taken by rebel AIs.

allquixotic

17:17

@ThatBrazilianGuy :O

Oliver Salzburg

17:42

@allquixotic I'm shy

Sathya

wow

heartbleed

7

Darth Android

18:43

such tag

@CanadianLuke The levels start to get really hard after that o.o I just finished the last level

Canadian Luke

Need help on 17... I have some questions on gaming.SE

Darth Android

which one was 17?

Canadian Luke

0

Q: How to change the teleporters to only teleport to each other?

In Level 17, how can I set the teleports to only teleport to other safe zones? Since the teleporters change every time you set the map, this is the only thing I can think of.

untrusted

Darth Android

@CanadianLuke Hint, you don't need to change the teleports

Canadian Luke

Hmmm

Can I change... The destination coordinates?

Darth Android

18:46

Check the validation for the map

Canadian Luke

Not following... It only allows one exit

Darth Android

But what does it allow as many as you want?

Canadian Luke

Teleporters?

I feel so stupid right now

I'm gonna run out to lunch, I'll be back to tackle it later

That Brazilian Guy

19:45

One of my tasks at work consists of doing a very dull and repetitive task: log in into a site, copy some text, log in into a second site, paste excerpts of this text into form fields of other site. I have been hating myself for (n-1 days) for not knowing how to code.

For the last feew weeks I have been trying to put some browser automation/scripting tool to use, even tested Selenium IDE, but it lacks conditionals and regex. Then I eventually stopped lamenting on how miserable I am, searched a dozen Q's on SO.

Now I have some code that uses curl to login to a site that uses cookies and CSFR protection, examines the DOM to find the text needed and uses regex to break it into the needed bits.

The code is not only PHP, but a mess any novice PHP coder would laugh at, but it gets the job done.

And I did it. Alone. By myself. Without asking for help even once.

5

Besides, now I can't sleep at night with the peace of mind of knowing that I'm on an IT team and, well, using IT to make tasks easier.

...no one is reading this. ._____.

!!foreveralone

ChatBot John Cavil

@ThatBrazilianGuy That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@ThatBrazilianGuy you think? I just starred you - you rock!

That Brazilian Guy

Wheeeeeeeeeeee \o/ I rock

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

that kind of self-help hacking is exactly what makes smart people stand out. How do you think most coders started out? THIS WAY.

That Brazilian Guy

To be 100% honest the regex part is yet on the to-do list. But I just have one problem and I'm throwing regexes on it, what could go wrong? :P

allquixotic

19:53

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun ah, there you are ;p

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

hey I was just going to ping you

allquixotic

i'm always (™) here... except, you know, when I'm not

4

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

but I cant find the "at" sign on my new Dvorak keyboard :)

allquixotic

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun but you can click the reply arrow, right? ;p

That Brazilian Guy

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun Yeah, and reading and studying a lot. Now I just have to stretch time, shrink space and dismiss procrastination.

allquixotic

19:55

if you need a ringing endorsement of my helping-people-spec-systems efforts, just ask @BGM ;-) i've helped him with two systems now

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@allquixotic yes sorry for yelling, I'm usually more adept and now I'm laughing at myself

allquixotic

@Bob and @JourneymanGeek are great too, in case you happen upon them

so you want an HTPC... oh boy

budget? use cases? is it solely a video-watching, web-surfing box, or does this have possible gaming usage too?

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

I saw your question comments. I tried to phrase the posts so they ask for desicion factors rather than specifics

That Brazilian Guy

Who wants a HTPC? @TorbenGundtofte-Bruun?

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@ThatBrazilianGuy yep.

allquixotic

19:56

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun that certainly makes it a better question than otherwise, but still, even the decision factors will vary widely between people

for example some people may not care whether it's a 3"x3" box or takes up half their room

That Brazilian Guy

XBMC is great for this. And if you have a Raspberry Pi you can use your TV's remote to control it. (With a very cheap and small hardware)

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

It's not exactly an HTPC but it's what people understandwhen I talk about it. It will replace the one I've been using for the past SIX years

allquixotic

others may care a LOT about the energy usage difference between, say, 35 W TDP and 45 W TDP, while others may be perfectly fine with 300 W TDP

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

Please stop with the software recommendations :)

That Brazilian Guy

Hahaha OK

allquixotic

19:57

it also depends on whether you'll be primarily streaming your content, or downloading and storing it

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

I currently have a minitower running Win7 media center and frankly it rocks but it cant keep up anymore.

allquixotic

do you play games on it?

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

What makes it special is mostly that it has TV tuners and can record from TV antenna, so it's not purely a playback device (which is what HTPC usually are)

allquixotic

gaming is a whole 'nother can of worms, so if you can say "definitely no" to gaming, the requirements become much easier and less complex

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

neither steaming nor downloading -- recording from live tv. This is Europe, we dont have Netflix and other neat stuff.... :(

no gaming, just a 720p ceiling-mounted projector and 5.1 surround.

allquixotic

20:00

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun are you fine with keeping the mini tower form factor with an ATX motherboard? if you're willing to go that size, you'll be able to get a lot more bang for your buck than with more mobile (and lower power) solutions

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

We dont own a TV - this thing is what we use - so it has to be utterly wife-friendly :)

@allquixotic I have a new mini ITX case and I'm getting some slightly used parts to put in, but I still need a CPU and a cooler, then I'm all set.

allquixotic

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun do you already have storage taken care of? how about memory? motherboard?

if you're going to be using a modern system you will need DDR3, not DDR2, so if you have old DDR2, you'll unfortunately be unable to use it with anything resembling a modern system

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

It is always-on because of several factors. It isready for TV recording. It also provides Sqeezebox music service in the house, and is backup server for my other computers.

@allquixotic 128GB SSD + 3TB HDD + 8GB DDR3 RAM + 1150 mobo that does 4 x SATA + GBit LAN + HDMI video output.

allquixotic

it seems odd to have everything you need except for a CPU -- usually you would design your whole system around first selecting a CPU

sounds like you have storage taken care of; that amount of RAM should be okay for an HTPC; that mobo is for Haswell CPUs only though

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@allquixotic yes well I cant afford to be picky when I get some of the parts thrown atme

@allquixotic Haswell is good though, right?

allquixotic

20:05

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun Haswell is the latest generation, which means they currently sell at the highest markup (profit margin) -- good for performance and features, bad for frugality

in terms of best value, right now I'd say Ivy Bridge or Sandy Bridge -- the two prior architectures -- would be better in Q1 2014

especially if absolute top end throughput is not essential (which it isn't for 720p video and music streaming and file storage)

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

Good considerations. But at least its going to amortize over a long time, and having saved on most parts I can accept to spend a little more on the cpu.

I hope to have this machine running for the next many years, 5+ like the current one.

allquixotic

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun as far as the LGA1150 procs out there on the market as of right now, if you don't plan on having a discrete GPU (which would frankly be a waste of money and power consumption anyway for an HTPC), you definitely want to get the fastest Intel IGPU available

the Haswell generation has four steps of iGPU performance; unfortunately the highest step is only available as of now on mobile platforms (or stationary platforms that use mobile chips, such as the NUC), so you'd want to get one with GT2, aka HD Graphics 4600

if you skimp on the iGPU now, you'll regret it 5 years later when it doesn't even have enough oomph to render "basic" websites ;p

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

I've thought about toying with Raspi but it's such a different world for me that I gave up. It's a cool hobby thing but for my use here I need something reliable that I know how to build and fix.

allquixotic

Haswell (microarchitecture)

Haswell is the codename for a processor microarchitecture developed by Intel as the successor to the Ivy Bridge architecture. It uses the 22 nm process. Intel officially announced CPUs with this microarchitecture on June 4, 2013 at Computex Taipei 2013. With Haswell, Intel introduced a low-power processor designed for convertible or "hybrid" Ultrabooks, having the Y suffix. Intel demonstrated a working Haswell chip at the 2011 Intel Developer Forum. Haswell CPUs are used in conjunction with the Intel 8 Series chipsets. Design The Haswell architecture is specifically designed to optimize...

basically you just need to pick a proc from that table that says "HD 4600 (GT2)" next to it and "LGA 1150" in the column to the right

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@allquixotic haha, it's not so much web content but when a pal gave me a Full HD movie, my current system creaked and croaked. I had to downsample the 12GB fle into a 700MB 720p file to play it...

allquixotic

20:12

as far as CPU throughput, you most likely won't need much at all for your workload, especially if you can get a TV tuner whose software will do GPU-accelerated encoding using Intel QSV

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

and surely that will happen again with the new computer, hopefully not too soon.

allquixotic

here's a nice CPU, for example, a good modest start perhaps: ark.intel.com/products/75036

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

My 2 tuners have hardware acceleration but I'm pretty sure they have never heard of OSV, like myself.

allquixotic

has the HD4600 graphics; has Intel QSV; quad core, no hyperthreading; 84 Watt TDP, so pretty much a full scale proc

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

Q2'13 sounds less than brand-new = less $$ too.

allquixotic

20:15

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun QSV is Intel QuickSync Video -- it's a fixed function pipeline on the iGPU that does hardware video encoding (not just hardware accelerated decode, which is most likely what your TV tuner supports), and can do it real-time at 1080p

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@allquixotic sounds fine!!

allquixotic

more impressively, it can encode to H264 in 1080p. H264 is a space-efficient but high-quality codec that requires a significant amount of CPU power to encode to

but by offloading a lot of the H264 encoding to the iGPU's fixed function pipeline, it can be done power-efficiently, without needing a high-end CPU

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@allquixotic why does a tv player need encoding? I'm not making movies.... oh wait, when recording you mean?

allquixotic

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun yes, exactly... unless you want to save the video completely uncompressed to disk, which will eat up many hundreds of gigabytes per hour

what specific "TV tuners" do you have?

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@allquixotic uhhh... old ones? :-D Hang on, let me see if I can check

@allquixotic one is a WinFast PvxDVR3200 H -- I have its product box nearby for a different purpose. The other tuner is an OEM-branded (Medion brand) Philips tuner, I think, but that's seriously from around 2006 or so!

I love that my old "tv computer" (as we call it in the family) has an X10 RF receiver, so the computer is tucked out of sight, and out of range from a normal IR media center remote. That's one thing I wont be able to move to the new computer...

allquixotic

20:23

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun that WinFast chip has previous-gen hardware encoding, which can encode to a digital format directly on the card, thus offloading it from the CPU -- but of course it's going to be limited to 720p and will not encode to H264, which is likely too intensive for it to handle

better than encoding off the CPU though

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

(I'm learning the Dvorak keyboard layout and chatting is ridiculously good practice. My right pinky is already sore though, it's got the sl-' characters to deal with.)

@allquixotic I think my 720p projector will last another couple of years so I'm fine with 720p as the limitation.

allquixotic

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun ok, well if you ever upgrade to a 1080p tuner, if it's able to send the raw frames to your computer, even if it doesn't do hardware encoding, you'll be able to use Intel QSV on your processor to do H264 1080p encoding with software, and it won't really impact your CPU usage even though the iGPU is on-die with the CPU

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@allquixotic I assume that either (cpu, tuner) will be able to handle 720p in real time. I didnt like to run Handbrake for 8 hours to downsample a single movie...

allquixotic

though it sounds like you won't be using QSV any time soon if you keep your 720p tuner

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@allquixotic sounds fine! Fufure-proof, to a certain extent.

allquixotic

20:26

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun downsampling or otherwise converting video, with proper software that supports QSV, whether it's converting from one format to another or something else, can be done in a fraction of the time with QSV than otherwise

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@allquixotic I'll remember to research QSV. I learned something new today!

Oliver Salzburg

NNoooooooooooo!!!!

O______O

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

So, back to that 4430 CPU. There are several variants including 4430S, 4430T, ...

@OliverSalzburg :'-(

Oliver Salzburg

This is horrible because our deployment depends on GitHub, it's 22:30 here and we're desperately trying to deploy a new version of our software to fix a bug

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

If I stay within that "HD 4600 (GT2)" group, does it matter (much) which one I get, or should I get exactly that 4430 version?

Oliver Salzburg

20:30

And I'm messing up our whole setup because I was thinking it was my mistake :P

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@OliverSalzburg I know we're in the same time zone. You're still at work? Poor soul!

allquixotic

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun "S" means it runs at a lower thermal design power (TDP)... the "S" procs run at 65W instead of 84W... and have a lower clock speed and thus slightly lower performance (at the benefit of lower power)

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@allquixotic at the benefit of less heat = less fan noise?

allquixotic

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun less heat, less fan noise, and less electric bill (slightly)

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

that might be an interesting trade-off

allquixotic

20:32

the "T" suffix means it has half the number of physical cores, but it has hyperthreading instead

half the number of cores hyperthreaded performs between ~65% to 90% (depending on the specific workload) as fast as having as many physical cores

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@allquixotic things were so much easier back in the days when CPU's didn't need heat sinks...

allquixotic

in other words, if you compare the performance of a proc with 2 physical cores hyperthreaded, versus 4 physical cores without hyperthreading, the 4 physical cores more reliably win

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@allquixotic great explanation! thank you.

allquixotic

and in no case would the hyperthreaded fewer cores be strictly faster, assuming each core is equal in its throughput

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

I think I'll go look at prices and see what I can get away with.

allquixotic

20:33

however, the "T" suffix also has much lower TDP

the "S" suffix has lower than the base model, and the "T" has even lower TDP (and lower performance to boot)

also, in case you encounter it, the "K" suffix means "overclockable" -- not something you'll be needing, I think

OH -- if you encounter a CPU with the "U" suffix, that means Ultra-low voltage, which is designed for either a fanless or very small fan design -- this is the kind of thing you'd see in a NUC... a NUC is about the size of a nice, thick sandwich with lettuce and tomato, so much smaller than a mini tower

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

I already found a 4430 for €150 = $207. That's doable (and I wont find it cheaper here in Europe).

allquixotic

one thing to keep in mind is that lower-voltage CPUs tend to be more expensive because they offer a "richer" space/performance ratio: Intel's pricing is not based on raw performance, but rather, on the space (size of the CPU and size of the box it needs to go in) vs. the performance you get from it

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

Oh thanks so much for those letters - finally a human-readable translation :-)

allquixotic

that is, even though, yes, an "S", "T" or "U" suffix processor will be strictly slower than the base model, the performance isn't all that much lower, compared to the dramatic reduction in size and power consumption

therefore the prices will be higher on those

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

now its clearer that the pure 4430 is the best recommendation, with "S" in second place.

allquixotic

20:37

yeah -- in terms of the amount of performance you're going to get for your price, ignoring heat dissipation, chassis size, and required fan size, the 4430 will be the best

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

@allquixotic "those" you mean "those with letters, compared to the base model"?

allquixotic

if you start taking heat/fan noise into account, the "S" or even "T" looks more attractive

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun correct.

it's kind of funny, because, the further you go down in the alphabet, the slower and lower power the processor is :D

"K" processors, being relatively high in the alphabet, can consume vast quantities of power (and rev your fan up) when you overclock them

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

Thank you!!! Now, as Oliver just said, it's getting late and I need to get up early tomorrow. I should've known that chatting is no quick thing :)

allquixotic

you have to think of the base model as having sort of an implicit "P" or something after it, lol, in terms of the alphabet scaling ;)

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

:)

allquixotic

20:39

@TorbenGundtofte-Bruun alright, have a good one

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

thanks, and THANKS again for your excellent advice!

allquixotic

it's what I do (almost) every day ;p

Torben Gundtofte-Bruun

good night / day to you!

allquixotic

day ;p it's 4:42 pm

but good night, since I know what time it is in Austria ;p

Oliver Salzburg

20:58

Yay. Go deployment!

Darth Android

21:45

@ThatBrazilianGuy Depending on where you work, don't tell anyone that you've replaced yourself with a script.

2

Daniel Beck

@OliverSalzburg Any hints on how to beat the untrusted boss?

Darth Android

@DanielBeck map.overrideKey

Daniel Beck

@DarthAndroid Level 20? The one with the bullets? I'm asking because 19 doesn't work in Firefox but I saw overrideKey in the code there.

Darth Android

Yes

That's the one where you have the phone taken away from you, right?

Oliver Salzburg

@DanielBeck Haven't played yet

Daniel Beck

21:53

@DarthAndroid yes

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