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23:04
Q. The landlord went to print a web page, where the page has in it a "Frame" that scrolled and had a persons professional resume and experince in it. When printed it would print the page as it is seen (like one would print a picture of it). Only the part of the frame showing (as scrolled) would print. I tried to get the "url" for the frame, but . . . but i dont know what i am doing. Want to print the "whole page"
Hi guys
I need help if you're willing to hear me out :P
!!tell 13170178 no
D:
hehe
Basically, I'm at a loss. Been trying to figure this out for a few days now
23:06
what's up sidr ben
damn lurkers only coming around here when they need help </oldManRant>
;)
So I have a NAS hooked up to a router-as-switch and I can't see it from my Surface Pro 2 anymore, at least in Network Neighborhood, but I can connect to it just fine via IP address.
What confuses me is that my desktop, which also runs Windows 8.1 Pro, can see it just fine.
> Surface Pro 2
I hate you
Sorry :P
23:07
I can't afford a 2. I'm stuck with my 1.
My Sony died. It happened
I technically couldn't either. But I'm working on that
@BenRichards wow... it died after all that hyping?! lol
oh, I do recall you saying that you'd have bought a Surface Pro if it came out in time but you couldn't wait or something
@allquixotic, I'm pretty sure it had a defective SDD, which I replaced, but also when I did that I broke the sound. Broke the whole thing when I tried to fix the sound later.
Yeah
Anyways, back to my issue. I can't find out why this thing can't see my NAS.
It can't resolve by name and doesn't show up when I browse the network.
@BenRichards I suppose you've verified that you don't have your network set to public network?
the stupid popup asking you if you want it to be a private or public network probably popped up while you were typing and you hit "n" or something and it automatically selected a choice for you
@allquixotic: Yes. I've checked: homegroup & sharing settings, firewall, tried both registry hacks, reset the router it's hooked up to and reconfigured it, checked UPnP on both routers, disabled router firewall
Oh
23:11
@BenRichards did you wireshark the DNS query and make sure it's asking your router? and do you get a different answer about the DNS result between your two computers?
I've checked IP settings too
I've tried nslookup, directly querying my router's DNS and got nothing from my tablet
Comes to mind.. I'll check on my desktop now
same workgroup name?
gotta match unless you set a FQDN
Yes, checked workgroup name
Also checked for updated firmware for my nas
ipconfig /flushdns; fire up wireshark; ping whateverhostname; compare results between desktop and the non-worky devices
reflashed it for good measure
ok
23:13
would be super weird if the router is giving different query results to the separate hosts in response to the exact same request
but if the request differs, or isn't going to your router at all, there's your problem
in short, if you understand how to use wireshark, this problem should be eminently diagnosable, if not directly treatable (your next step is to know why whatever's effing up is effing up)
Yeah
Sorry for crappy screenshots. Fancy shmancy window borders is desktop.
I'll install wireshark right now
I've used it before a little
I still have Surface Pro 2 envy
Oh... but I do see this on my tablet (for reference)
> C:\Users\Ben>ping 192.168.0.107

Pinging 192.168.0.107 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.0.107: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.107: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.107: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.107: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=64

Ping statistics for 192.168.0.107:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 3ms, Average = 2ms
!!listcommands
@allquixotic help, listen, eval, coffee, refresh, forget, info, listcommands, tell, afk, awsm, ban, unban, color, convert, define, domain, export, findcommand, forgetseen, github, google, hang, inhistory, import, jquery, learn, test, why, ok, hello, friday, after5, theanswer, caution, nicethings, europe, goaway, status, idk, thatword, poptart, routertroubleshooting, networkingproblem, meta, rlemon, no, foxno, yes, orlmente, fixit, uio, taytaytay, ping, maybe, say, facepalm, hv, ohhh, whocares
snore, toostupid, bababababat, plz, whee, lol, sudo, beatingbloodoutofarockwithascythe, test1, ittt
23:19
!!pissed
well you've got layer 1, 2, 3 covered
Ok what do I put in capture filter to filter out anything but ping
@BenRichards the examples should have one for DNS
you don't even need to worry about "ping"
this has nothing to do with ICMP
23:21
Oh ok
the problem is with DNS
Bob
Bob
got a WINS server running somewhere?
because that's actually remarkably common
I saw no example but I put this in tcp port 53
since the not DNS was the negation of that I think
Ok that didn't work
Actually, nslookup fails on both, despite being able to ping... must not be a dns entry
or whatever?
@BenRichards it might be a hosts file entry hard-code, although i'm not sure what would've put it there on your desktop only
or WINS as bobby tables said
@Bob, no wins as far as I know
Bob
Bob
23:24
@BenRichards definitely sounds like WINS
what's that?
Basically window's ertaz dns system
Bob
Bob
@BenRichards The old NetBIOS thingy that's like a DNS alternative
Bob
Bob
it was deprecated ages ago
23:25
also, check if they're all in the same workgroup
Bob
Bob
nslookup is strictly DNS only
I'll check for WINS
Bob
Bob
ping and anything else that uses the normal network stack will resolve via WINS too
if something local resolves via ping but not nslookup, it's often WINS
!! s/ertaz/ersatz/
@allquixotic Basically window's ersatz dns system (source)
No WINS server
> UDP: Typically, NBNS uses UDP as its transport protocol. The well known UDP port for NBNS traffic is 137.

TCP: NBNS can also use TCP as its transport protocol for some operations, although this might never be done in practice. The well known TCP port for NBNS traffic is 137.
so capture udp 137 and tcp 137
port 137 is a valid capture filter for NBNS (WINS)
nbns is a valid display filter
Bob
Bob
@BenRichards you could grab nbtstat and try
23:28
@BenRichards can you show the same for the desktop?
> NetBIOS over Tcpi... No
if desktop says yes, there is problem
@BenRichards: yay, ipv6!
Anonymous
@BenRichards what's that awful theme?
Haha, I forgot the name but It looks fine to me :P
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic bingo :P
23:30
@JourneymanGeek the only reason i am keeping my phone on Android 4.2.2 until the second soak KitKat build is released (the first soak build bricked about 10% of users' devices, no matter whether they'd previously rooted/tampered)
Bob
Bob
What I'd really recommend is setting up DNS properly for your NAS
Neither has WINS
Anonymous
@allquixotic take risks, biatch
@Bob of note: one's wifi and one's ethernet
23:30
Yes
Bob
Bob
@BenRichards They don't have a WINS server defined, but IIRC NetBIOS also works by broadcast
@BenRichards it probably tries the default gateway for WINS by default or something
Bob
Bob
and it's enabled on the working machine and disabled on the other
@Bob it does
How do you know it's enabled?
Oh... netbios
23:31
i wonder if the router internally bridges the wifi network and the ethernet network at layer 2, or if they're just layer 3 routed together
Bob
Bob
> In addition, to start a session or to send a datagram to a particular host rather than to broadcast the datagram, NBT will have to determine the IP address of the host with a given NetBIOS name; this is done by broadcasting a "Name Query" packet, and/or sending it to the NetBIOS name server. The response will have the IP address of the host with that name.
if they aren't layer 2 bridged, would UDP multicast even work?
I've tried hooking up to wifi on both routers, no difference
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Depends.
I think most APs will forward that traffic.
Some have a specific option.
Bob
Bob
23:32
Because broadcast is shit on wifi.
How do I set NetBIOS?
Bob
Bob
Well, shittier than everything else :P
@BenRichards You don't.
You set up DNS properly.
tcp/ip settings of the adapter
@BenRichards: did you check if they're the same workgroup?
23:32
Ok
@JourneymanGeek YES :P
i mean... that's how you would do it if WINS didn't suck so badly that @Bob won't let you enabled it
sorry, missed that XD
yes, Bob lives in Australia and is just a 12 pound orange canid, and he is preventing you from enabling WINS/NetBIOS on your tablet
Dangit, Bob!
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic No guarantee that it would work, and broadcast is messy anyway.
23:33
you need to set up DNS instead
don't make Bob show his teeth
Ok, looking at my dns stuff. Router-as-switch has ddwrt but gateway is netgear, since ddwrt wasn't available for it
(cue !!foxno which I'm not allowed to use)
Bob
Bob
On a more serious note, setting up local DNS entries on a consumer router isn't always possible
shouldn't the DHCP server automatically take care of local names with the DNS resolver?
that's how it works everywhere else...
You mean that?
Bob
Bob
23:36
@allquixotic no idea :P
BTW, network neighborhood uses LLTP, right? I enabled that on my NAS...
/me just realises @BenRichards has a nas and slightenvys ;p
you request an address from DHCP and say "HAI MY NAME IS <computername>"
router registers you in DNS as <computername>
Bob
Bob
@BenRichards no, that's a different thing
@BenRichards no, that's layer 3 routing
you already have routing done
23:37
no, that dosen't look like it
Haha @JourneymanGeek :P
Ok
See, I'm not a network admin :P just self-taught here
@BenRichards: been looking at buying/building one
Bob
Bob
@BenRichards what do you think I am? :P
O.O
@JourneymanGeek I have a DLINK DNS-325, which works decently. CHeap but fits my purposes
Bob
Bob
2
A: Why do most routers not include local DNS?

AlnitakMost routers can't even proxy DNS properly, let alone act as a proper DNS server. See RFC 5625. Try and find one that uses the popular dnsmasq software internally, which means it'll be one with a Linux kernel too. Ob. Disclaimer - I wrote that RFC.

> Ob. Disclaimer - I wrote that RFC.
23:38
lol
@Bob low rep on SU; 126k on SO
Anyways, so is it because I'm on wifi? Then why did it work at some point and then stop working?
AFAIK, I didn't change anything, but I'm not 100% sure on that. Could be a windows update or something?
@allquixotic: obviously a developer
23:40
@BenRichards windows update installs new wifi driver -> new wifi driver wipes out old settings because it's considered a new "device" -> netBIOS settings are reset
my router-as-switch can do dnsmasq
Bob
Bob
@BenRichards possibly it was working on DNS previously?
you could try just enabling NetBIOS in TCP/IP settings, but prepare to face the wrath of the fox
See, where? :P
it's really not buried
it's just in that same old TCP/IP settings dialog that's been there since Windows 95
under advanced, obv.
23:41
Yeah so I get this crazy ass thing...
Bob
Bob
> DHCP also does not address registration of newly configured clients with the Domain Name System (DNS)
@allquixotic ^
@Bob but many routers are configured to do that anyway, otherwise this would have to be done manually by each person who owns a router
@BenRichards lol, brilliant , where can I get an OS that smart
Bob
Bob
> The 'client identifier'
is an opaque key, not to be interpreted by the server; for example,
the 'client identifier' may contain a hardware address, identical to
the contents of the 'chaddr' field, or it may contain another type of
identifier, such as a DNS name.
@BenRichards never seen that before... what boxes do you have ticked there?
also, everyone please write to Microsoft and let them know that a "Marvell AVASTAR 350N Wireless Network Controller" is a "NAC" (Network Adapter Card)
23:43
Yeah should have exposed that list...
Microsoft Windows Software Repeated Redundant Acronyms Division Department came up with that acronym, apparently ("NAC")
I did kinda suspect it could be related but was hoping not since I can clearly connect to the network :P
@BenRichards Client for Microsoft Networks?
Bob
Bob
> You may receive this message after a system restoration when your network adapter has been changed before the backup.
@_@
> This behavior can occur if your network adapter has been changed to another model of network adapter without first being properly uninstalled by using the Add/Remove Hardware tool in Control Panel.
Bob
Bob
23:44
??????
Looks like something they really need to fix in software :P
> APPLIES TO

Microsoft Windows 2000 Server
Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server
Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional Edition
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic ya
Doesn't mean they don't have a Win8 version of that page
1 min ago, by allquixotic
@BenRichards Client for Microsoft Networks?
is it ticked or not?
23:46
Must have been a windows update to the driver that screwed things up
Huh?
Yes
is the checkbox for Client for Microsof... okay
@BenRichards wouldn't be the first time
Bob
Bob
@BenRichards try reinstalling the driver? :P
these driver updates are usually listed as optional
Yeah I guess I'll do that. I'll see you guys soon
Hopefully I don't bork something along the way :P
Bob
Bob
which reminds me, @allquixotic, I'll have to purge the ralink drivers sometime soon :P
@Bob oh but wait, all the drivers for Surface Pro 2 are super customized by Microsoft and only available through Windows Update @_@
Bob
Bob
23:47
@allquixotic wait. this is on a Surface Pro ??
(ditto Surface Pro 1)
Bob
Bob
well.
Good job, Microsoft.
@Bob he's having the problem on two windows 8.1 pro devices connected by wifi, one of them the Surface Pro 2
his desktop works but it's ethernet
No, on one Win8.1 pro device
Sony is busted. Won't turn on anymore. I borked it
then what's "the tablet" you were referring to earlier? is that the surface pro 2?
23:48
yeah
ok so there are only 2 devices here... gotcha... was getting confused by your terminology
sorry :P
I just realized I should download the wifi driver locally since I'll lose internet connectivity, heh :P
so I'll do that now
i still think sniffing WINS and DNS on wireshark should be revealing -- namely, comparing the results between the desktop and surface
might need to reboot both boxen first to flush any WINS cachies
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic ...@JourneymanGeek has infected you too?
I tried sniffing WINS (with those ports you mentioned) and came up dry
23:50
heck you could send us the zipped capture file and we could be all like "now we know his password mwahahahahaaaaaaaaa"
@BenRichards on which box?
:P
Wireshark was running on desktop
I think I pinged from both
Can't remember
retry on the desktop after running this: nbtstat -R
Ok driver pack downloaded. Now to reinstall
no wait :(
ok i'll do that first :P
Bob
Bob
23:51
@BenRichards NBNS broadcast is UDP
@BenRichards don't forget to remove old => reboot => remove old => reboot => repeat until it comes up empty
port 137 as a cap filter should do the trick... once you flush nbtstat
Bob
Bob
because sometimes when you reboot it just reinstalls an older version -_-
or you could try a driver rollback
@allquixotic assuming it's actually 137 for the broadcast
@Bob that would take about an hour on my desktop with the hardware RAID controller... "Booting controller kernel....................... / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \" ... but on my Surface Pro or NUC, about 2 minutes
desktop triggers nbns traffic, tablet does not
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic yea, it should
> UDP: Typically, NBNS uses UDP as its transport protocol. The well known UDP port for NBNS traffic is 137.

TCP: NBNS can also use TCP as its transport protocol for some operations, although this might never be done in practice. The well known TCP port for NBNS traffic is 137.
23:53
@BenRichards aha! so you are getting it resolved via WINS!
translate this for me? The NetBios would have got the computer Name for the number, as sent out by that computer? And the netbios goes over the regular tcpip, but that is archaic? Instead the computer Name should be got via DNS? and where would this Name be "stored" then for the dns resolve?
Anyways, when you remove hardware from device manager, it lets you optionally delete the driver software as well, which I will do
so problem 1 is to get that annoying dialog to stop popping up when you go to tcpip properties; problem 2 is to enable netbios once you get it to stop; problem 3 is to stop bob from biting your ankle for using NetBIOS
23:53
haha
So can I remove/reinstall my wifi card now? :P
note that i didn't say anywhere in that list of problems that you need to get your setup working with DNS
ddwrt has netmasq support, as I said
err, dnsmasq
@BenRichards of course you can, don't ask to ask.. didn't you know, this place is against meta-questions :D
!!tell 13171577 meta
@BenRichards Please don't ask to ask; if you simply ask your actual question, we will help you if we know the answer or can help you find it. This is much faster and simpler than asking if it's OK to ask. As a rule, it is always OK to ask in this channel. Please go ahead.
23:55
hehe
Hey, should I click that?
..................
one might dare to try
tardar sauce doesn't know
!!maybe
That bot is amusing. XD
23:58
!!bababababat
5-hit combo

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