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19:00
oh - WiDi 3.5 supports Miracast o.o
so they're sort of converging a bit?
in my personal experience though Miracast is godawful
Hmmm. Maybe a Surface Pro could take over most of my computing needs
@DarthAndroid except for playing Battlefield 4 :/
Still I doubt it'll fully replace my gaming beast.
Yeah.
Crysis 2 in 3D might be a bit much even for a surface pro 4
it'd be impressive if Microsoft could find the physical space inside a future Surface Pro iteration to do hybrid graphics with a discrete card
I'm sure Nvidia is working on a way to make a Maxwell core with on-die GDDR5 that'll go inside an ultrabook
Oh man, on-die gddr5 :D Yes Please.
19:08
actually on-die GDDR5 would do wonders for Intel's iGPU, too
their Iris Pro 5200 GTe part already has on-package eDRAM -- 128MB of it -- but it's got DDR3 bandwidth, not GDDR5 caliber
Yeah, I was reading up on that from the article on the Iris Pro 5200 GTe that was linked the other day.
miracast?
My understanding is widi lets you transmit video from your computer over wifi or something to another device which will display it on your tv...? Is it just an outright full-screen wifi protocol or something? Does it do high resolution?
@JimmyHoffa Let's stream 1080p video over the already clogged 802.11n spectrum with meh compression and call it a new technology! Oh, and if you try to use it outside of a clean room / Faraday cage, be prepared to shatter your Miracast adapter against the wall in frustration when it drops out.
in my testing, Miracast drops out more than a bad airwave Digital TV signal
How can laptop with 14" screen be considered UltraBook?
@Boris_yo because it's ultra priced?
19:21
I've always considered ultrabook to be about weight and thickness
14" is a bit large... but still within the range I'd consider
Wifi N at my place already struggles with HD video
had to bump the buffers to over 5s to maintain smooth playback
@DarthAndroid I thought ultrabook was like ultraman, it's made of metal, flies, and occasionally explodes violently in the midst of fighting tokyo sized monsters
Well it is on sale now - $820 vs $1132 in my country compared to $699 on Amazon US.
Besides, who would invest in an ultrabook when you can get a Surface Pro 2?
@DarthAndroid Yeah, for $2000 vs $699...
$2000?
You mean... $899 vs $699?
19:26
36 mins ago, by Darth Android
They're up to $2000 on ebay
The particular model I wanted was climbing to that price because MS ran out of their current stock
@DarthAndroid well.. actually... a portable PC in the 13" range with a permanent un-removeable keyboard and a touchscreen and a discrete GPU probably would be the perfect device for me to ditch my gaming desktop, especially if it had a rather capacious SSD, or two hard drives, or two SSDs
and that's a higher-end model at that
@allquixotic maybe your 802.11n spectrum is clogged, mine's totally fine with only 9 devices on it in my house and 10 other wifi networks showing up from near neighbors when I do a wifi search..
The lower-end models are easy to find and are much cheaper
@JimmyHoffa ours has a lot less traffic than that, but the miracast adapter I bought is just bad
@allquixotic I have a 50' cat6 cable I've been debating grabbing for my tv device just so I can stop dealing with it. The wifi spectrums is clearly struggling at my house..
wife would kill me having that running along the floor though.
Anybody tried any of the ethernet-over-power thingers?
@DarthAndroid Yeah, I hear they work great, you just plug it into the wall, and then you lick the RJ45 then stick it into any port you can fit it in on your computer, apparently it's like a cheatcode you get fastest internet ever then (don't forget to lick the RJ45 though or it won't work!)
(nobody's ever used one of those ethernet-over-power thingajiggers?)
( I have not, if I need more reliability or speed than Wifi offers, I drop some cat 6 on the floor. With tape if it's long-term )
19:37
@DarthAndroid I'd do this but the eyesore is unacceptable to female-kind
The first time she tripped one it, it might be a month or a year after it was down, but I would be made to immediately regret it
My female-kind counterpart is too overjoyed that her internet is more reliable to care. Win-Win.
And as I said, Tape.
There shall be no tripping of cables.
In other news, I own this house finally woo, maybe I will run some wire... I have a crawl space, can't be that hard using that...
How many floors?
tri-level, why?
1: I might try that, 2+: NOPE.
19:39
(I wouldn't wire the whole place)
We just had the AT&T guy pull a few extra cat5s when he was doing network installation in our house.
at least AT&T is good for something.
@DarthAndroid crawl space runs under the whole of the main floor, now that I think about it, the wall my TV is on is open from beneath through the crawl space so I could put a switch inside the wall right there...
Ah
All we had at my parents was an attic over the second floor
running cables on the first floor was a royal pain
tri-levels are weird
it's a two-story attached to a one story where the one-story is mid-way up the two story, and because they both have the same foundation the one-story part has a crawl space it's raised over to get to that mid-level point
and they share the roof so they have the same attic space as well
19:57
"Windows 8 is not very intuitive and is optimized for a touch screen, which the 14z ultrabook does not have"

Does this guy not know that Metro is not the only interface that can be used?
I'm currently using Windows 8.1 on my desktop. It's improved enough that I actually uninstalled Start8 and ModernMix. :P
Also, the new Mail app is good enough to be used full time.
Also, I got laid off. :| Back in the market for a job.
@JimmyHoffa female-kind? what is this you speak of? some kind of cat?
@BenRichards I uninstalled ModernMix, but still Start8
@BenRichards sorry to hear that dude!
@allquixotic Thanks.
do you know ColdFusion?
Yeah, ModernMix doesn't work properly in Windows 8.1, but that's ok now that we can run different metro apps on different screens instead of being stuck on only one screen.
20:02
they'll probably patch MM to work on Windows 8.1 sooner or later
@BenRichards Personal reasons or you can share?
I actually tried and with my 3 1080p displays, I can run 7 metro apps side by side across all of them.
3 on one, and 2 on the others.
@Boris_yo Company restructuring and whatnot.
@BenRichards Are you programmer?
@Boris_yo Design verification engineer, but programmer is what I tell most people since it's what they'd understand :P
@BenRichards you never said whether you know Coldfusion
20:06
@allquixotic No, sorry. Missed that question :P
@BenRichards Design verification engineer of software then?
@Boris_yo Nope, digital design of computer hardware (computer chips, pcbs, etc)
@allquixotic Is i7-3537U okay by today standards?
@BenRichards Hmmm I don't know what this has to do with being software programmer then like you tell people.
@Boris_yo I'm not designing, but I work with the designers to verify that the design is correct. It's a ton of programming in C/C++, SystemVerilog, and scripting languages.
I do simulation of the design. it's not hardware yet. The design is written with Verilog or VHDL, or other similar language, which can be compiled and run (simulated) on a computer
@Boris_yo okay for what? sort of
@BenRichards that's pretty cool AWW there's no dog there!! RUUUUUUH
(sorry, asdfmovie)
20:16
@BenRichards Makes sense then.
@allquixotic Office work and middle level gaming.
yo waddup yo
@BenRichards Are you going to keep searching jobs in your field or get temporary? I know where jobs require years of experience but what if you are employed in a job in different field for several years and later decide to return to job that is in your field? How would that pan out if you haven't worked in a such job for several years?
@Mr.IDon'tCare waddup? I am surprised you asked because you don't care!
@Boris_yo There's bound to be jobs in my field. Contacted a recruiter I used before already.
With my field, and related fields, you have to be current or else you fall behind.
Thigns move very fast.
@BenRichards By the way do you use LinkedIn to get a job?
I hope to not be out of work longer than a month. If it's longer than 2 months (length of last unemployment), I'd be disappointed in myself.
Yes I do
At least for part of it
20:20
@Boris_yo I doubt you know why the username is "I Don't Care."
@BenRichards add me and I can endorse your skills ;P
@allquixotic Sure :P
But you'll have to find me first, I think. :o
@BenRichards Can't you keep up with changes when today we have internet?
@Boris_yo I can do research but that is nothing like actual practical experience. The tools and resources to do what I do as a hobby is pretty prohibitively expensive. :P
@Mr.IDon'tCare I don't know really.
20:22
I can program in C/C++ and scripting languages, at the least.
That's easy to do as a hobby
@BenRichards Must person who is interested in working in your field have university degree?
@Boris_yo Most people in my field come from computer engineering or computer science degrees.
I've never heard of someone who knows Verilog who didn't have a degree
If you wanted to design, I think a degree is probably mandatory, considering everything involved with it. I taught it to myself for my job and I don't design, just test them, but I can clearly tell that even though I can navigate a design well enough, I'm far from qualified to be a designer for anything complicated.
I can make simulation-only models but there's a whole level of things to consider when it comes to synthesis that simulation doesn't even touch.
@BenRichards Computer engineering is taught in college and computer science (BSc?) in university? I always wondered what is better - college or university in terms of material quality, value added to CVs and tuition cost.
20:26
@Boris_yo computer engineering is less software and more how the software and hardware fit together at the low level
a narrowly-focused computer engineering guy who wants to do a career like Ben's rather than be a "code monkey" might not know how to architect large enterprise information systems, but they would know how to do design work or validation
"College" is the colloquial term for University in America. I went to Rochester Institute of Technology. It's a University, but I think that term is used more for places that aren't heavily focused on certain areas of study.
@Boris_yo Ok.
@allquixotic Yeah, pretty much. I came out of computer science but CS is very heavy on theory so it gave me the foundation to build on that let me pick up the digital design side of things.
Software engineering is the other direction I could have gone in.
@Boris_yo many many people are unaware of that
@BenRichards One guy told me BSc is very boring. He's right considering you mentioned it is very heavy on theory. There's probably not much practice involved.
20:31
@Boris_yo There's a ton of programming involved, but it's to supplement theory practice.
@JimmyHoffa Can you tell me the name of second interface best fit for desktop systems or laptops without touchscreens so I can pass your word to lost guy?
I did a lot of things. It even touched on digital design a little bit. It gives you a lot of broad knowledge to build on. You don't spend tons of time focusing on APIs, programming libraries, and how to build Microsoft Word. But you get into the nitty gritty on how to think like a programmer, so you could build those tools yourself if you wanted. If I want to learn how to program in a particular language or environment, I could pick it up pretty dang quickly through self-study.
@BenRichards "Launch8" from Stardock o_o
Like Verilog/SystemVerilog and Perl were things I learned mostly or entirely out of self-study, and it's what I use most of the time.
20:35
@allquixotic Interesting. But I'm not sure what problem it's supposed to fix. :P
You can boot to the desktop directly already anyhow. I guess it's a tweak that might appeal to some, but I don't need it. :P
IMGUR image hosting for SU does not work although it still creates empty file.
@BenRichards How long does it take person to learn each?
@allquixotic PC wins here: i.imm.io/1jk0T.jpeg
@Boris_yo Depends on the person. For me, it's not that long. Weeks to a month for a decent working knowledge at the most. But for some it might be longer.
21:01
@BenRichards don't know if you're up for moving to the mid-atlantic east coast region, but there are an incredible number of tech jobs here in some way tied to the federal government (defense, civil, etc)... some require a clearance, some don't, but it's Silicon Valley 2 out here these days with all the big govt setting up shop here
Maryland, Virginia, DC
maybe not hardware design verification but definitely coding, testing, system engineering, etc
walk into a Panera or a Starbucks in a suburban or urban area around here, and you'll see laptops galore with techy-looking people typing feverishly away
21:20
The fusiform gyrus is part of the temporal lobe and occipital lobe in Brodmann area 37. It is also known as the (discontinuous) occipitotemporal gyrus. The fusiform gyrus is located between the inferior temporal gyrus and the parahippocampal gyrus. The lateral and medial portions are separated by the shallow mid-fusiform sulcus. Function There is still some dispute over the functionalities of this area, but there is relative consensus on the following: # processing of color information # face and body recognition (see Fusiform face area) # word recognition (see Visual word form area) # w...
The pineal gland (also called the pineal body, pineal organ, epiphysis cerebri, epiphysis, conarium or the "third eye") is a small endocrine gland in the vertebrate brain. It produces the serotonin derivative melatonin, a hormone that affects the modulation of wake/sleep patterns and seasonal functions. Its shape resembles a tiny pine cone (hence its name), and it is located near the centre of the brain, between the two hemispheres, tucked in a groove where the two rounded thalamic bodies join. Nearly all vertebrate species possess a pineal gland. The most important exception is the hagf...
Can kids circumvent age restriciton on YouTube?
@Boris_yo Can adults?
21:35
@JimmyHoffa Noooo! explodes like bridgekeeper in Monthy Python
Did you watch that movie?
@sysadmin1138 Welcome to Root Access chat for Super Users! I am this channel's helpful chat bot. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help. For bot commands, type !!listcommands
Microsoft should offer MS Office on Dreamspark, since students needs Office more than, say, Windows Server or Windows 8. Most universities use MS Office and offering operating systems and server tools instead of what the university uses isn't really helpful...
@Mr.IDon'tCare Office is almost free with university verification -- about $10 or $20 USD, which is cheaper than a single "AAA" PC game
it's even cheap with many company employee benefits programs... there are very few cases where you would have to pay full price for Office
21:52
@allquixotic I have no clue where you get that info from. Since from what I could understand from Microsoft's website (unless I missed stuff, which I am sure I did), the cheapest I can get Office for is around $60.
And no matter where I try to look, I keep getting referred to Office 365 (which is $80/4 year)...
@allquixotic Crappy college/university?
@Mr.IDon'tCare my university had a school tech store where you could go to their website (school website, not MS) and buy an Office license (this was like Office 2007 though) for $19.95 or so
it might depend on what kind of deal your uni works out with Microsoft
22:13
My uni had similar
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also, dreamspark premium
I miss DS:P so much :(
@DarthAndroid I don't. I've learned to deal without it. Microsoft products aren't that important to my life. I'd rather learn to not depend on them. I even bought a retail license of Visio 2013 because that's one of the few programs that is just a killer must-have app for software people and isn't directly related to developing MS software.
I've used open office for everything outside of work for years... How often do I really prepare documents not as a part of work anyway
@JimmyHoffa I like OpenXML. :/ I should be strung up by the FSF for saying that
I'm working on a testing tool that involves calling a certain REST API on a certain proprietary application lifecycle management product (the product may even have a completely unimaginative name); getting back a hunk of XML; parsing it; comparing strings in it to data in a different format in a Word (OpenXML) document chock full of tables; and writing the results out to Excel (OpenXML).
GET /blah?......
parseparseparse
Open blah.docx for reading
parseparseparse
comparecomparecomparecomparecomparecomparecomparecomparecompare
Open blah.xlsx for writing
writewritewritewritewritewrite
current system uses three different COM/OLE APIs in VBscript and takes the better part of a day to run
new system looks like it can be run in about 30 seconds
22:29
ugh, office integration software, I am so glad I don't write anything like that. The APIs are so damn arcane and old-school
@JimmyHoffa fortunately, I don't need to integrate with office, just read and write its files
@allquixotic but using the office APIs to do that from last time I looked at anything of the nature is a horrible mess
current system uses office automation APIs but not because it displays any kind of user UI, it just automatically reads and writes data to/from docs and spreadsheets using it... but the automation API is hilariously inefficient compared to an XML parser
@JimmyHoffa the problem with the office automation APIs is that each one is a COM wrapper, and requires an IPC call through the RPC service and data type marshalling (basically, serialization and deserialization) on both sides, for hilarious latency
@allquixotic The reason is the amount of old cruft underneath all those office APIs, largely they're still relying on COM communication under the hood because the guts of office is last time I looked still a glom of old C++/COM shite from forever ago
compared to the performance overhead of OLE automation, the .NET XML parser is several orders of magnitude faster and more scalable
@JimmyHoffa which is basically what I just said
even the .NET office APIs are just wrappers around the COM TLBs, which is entirely useless for improving performance
22:32
heh aye. beat me to it, but I don't owe you a coke. Either way, I never want to touch those APIs and hopefully they'll die before I'm ever asked to do anything with an office product
@JimmyHoffa I don't think they'll die any time soon, although it's not inconceivable that MS might come out with a pure .NET API that interfaces with Office more efficiently
@allquixotic that's what I mean by die
regardless, you're going to have to do some kind of IPC if you're interfacing with Office from an external process, and that's what's slow, because of the context switches and marshaling
that's why it's so much faster to process it in-process using OpenXML SDK
I heard the java apache APIs are actually decent someone was telling me because they're from scratch implementations that don't tie-in with the MS public com wrapper garbage
@JimmyHoffa POI is very good, but our advanced testing tools already have been semi-formally okayed to proceed with C#.NET, so I'm not going to push my luck by introducing Java into the mix
22:34
!!tell 11853217 xkcd 285
@JimmyHoffa Command xkc does not exist. Did you mean: xkcd
C# is "forward-looking!" and "an Emerging Testing Technology!" here
anyway, I keep mentioning OpenXML -- you know what that is, right?
@allquixotic To be fair I'd take it and run. As one who loves the functional abstraction, the idea of getting bogged in Java's neutered lambdas that are hardly even implemented yet scares me
@allquixotic Not a clue.
22:36
@JimmyHoffa OpenXML is the underlying file format of Office 2007-and-later file formats (only .docx, .pptx and .xlsx, not the original formats without the "x"). Microsoft released a pure .NET SDK (proprietary freeware) called OpenXML SDK which is basically a strongly typed object model / XML DOM wrapper for the OpenXML SDK
in essence, what a .docx file comes down to is a ZIP archive of XML files, and a few proprietary data streams for things like OLE objects... but 99% of the meaningful content is just in a handful of XML files in a ZIP file
@allquixotic ah cool, yeah I knew they went to a standard xml document format in '07, didn't know that was the name. Also didn't know they released a pure DOM wrapper lib, that will be hundreds of times nicer...
@JimmyHoffa yeah, the nice thing is you don't have to use the .NET XMLDocument API, because they already wrote object oriented wrappers, but you can easily drill down to the raw XML if you want, run XPath queries, etc
it's hundreds of times faster than the COM API
and it doesn't spawn a WINWORD.EXE process, either (why would it need to?)
I believe OpenXML even runs on Linux/Mono -- the only drawback is that it's a proprietary binary, but if it works, you don't really care about its implementation
it's definitely a pure .NET assembly though
@allquixotic blech I haven't touched XMLDocument since .NET 3.5 came out back in '08. XDocument lets you harness the power of the expressions treating it like an AST with LINQ to XML
@JimmyHoffa actually, OpenXML's APIs are all wrapped around XDocument, so that's even better :D
another thing about Java, if I had to work in Java where I didn't have LINQ, well, it's a good thing I learned Haskell so I know how to easily and quickly implement LINQ from scratch, because that's exactly what I'd do...
22:39
it's not hard to take OpenXML SDK stuff and get down to the XDocument, but it's not absolutely required to do so
I'm pretty sure you can do LINQ to XML on it
@allquixotic Yeah if the SDK gives you a more domain based API so you don't have to manually identify the documents conventions I wouldn't bother touching the XDocument
@JimmyHoffa it makes it pretty easy to drill down past the first few layers of cruft, because the OpenXML schema is way more general than most Word documents will ever be -- there are a few things you can assume are true about all Word documents that require you to obtain this object, then the only child object of a certain type, then the only child object of a certain type, etc
it's like, come on already, get me to the paragraph text!
of course, being in love with XPath, I'd just as soon query for "/Blah1/Blah2/Blah3/Blah4/" and use that as my "root" object to loop through its children for actual things I care about
@allquixotic the nice thing about the list monad is it's a monoid, so as long as you don't break out of the monad you don't have to worry about whether or not you found what you were looking for because you can just carry mempty around and be on your merry way.
we're so far behind the tech curve here (partly thanks to 3rd party software vendors whose stuff we depend on; partly due to ourselves) that we're just now getting around to things like XPath, where before we'd make 150,000 calls marshaled through a COM Server automation, taking hours
this new test tool is going to be awesome
it's not going to use Haskell or any particularly FP features, but it'll definitely use LINQ to XML, probably XPath, lots of lambdas, OpenXML SDK, and a fairly elegant REST API that essentially queries a SQL Server DB and spits out an XML document
I just love how fast XML-stuff is, compared to the bad old days... we're talking about on the order of 500000 XML elements coming down from REST and about 800 page Word documents, being processed in seconds
COM could do it in about 26 hours
whoa crap Erik Meijer left MSR earlier this year... poor C#, it's up to Don Syme at this point to keep it from obsolescing...
22:52
@JimmyHoffa heh... they have to keep up with Oracle... I'm pretty sure they won't let it become obsolete... granted, Oracle and the Java Community Process move at the cubed root of the speed of Government Health IT (about 1 planck unit of distance per age of the universe), but they still have to keep pace
@allquixotic I jest (sort of). Let's just say Eric Lippert's no Erik Meijer, and I'm not convinced he or Syme (or SPJ or any of them anymore) really give much of a crap about C# anymore... Not sure who's going to keep the monads and provable computability techniques rolling in with Erik's departure.
@JimmyHoffa everytime you say monads I think about Leibniz' philosophy of metaphysics
The Monadology (La Monadologie, 1714) is one of Gottfried Leibniz’s best known works representing his later philosophy. It is a short text which sketches in some 90 paragraphs a metaphysics of simple substances, or monads. Text During his last stay in Vienna from 1712 to September 1714, Leibniz wrote two short texts which were meant as concise expositions of his philosophy. After his death Principes de la Nature et de la Grace fondés en raison, which was intended for prince Eugene of Savoy, appeared in French in the Netherlands. Christian Wolff and collaborators published translations...
@allquixotic Same thing happens to another fellow I talk to, luckily I've never studied any of that, so I just think about
In category theory, a Kleisli category is a category naturally associated to any monad T. It is equivalent to the category of free T-algebras. The Kleisli category is one of two extremal solutions to the question Does every monad arise from an adjunction? The other extremal solution is the Eilenberg–Moore category. Kleisli categories are named for the mathematician Heinrich Kleisli. Formal definition Let〈T, η, μ〉be a monad over a category C. The Kleisli category of C is the category CT whose objects and morphisms are given by :\begin{align}\mathrm{Obj}({\mathcal{C}_T}) &= \mathrm{Obj}({\m...
> In category theory, a Kleisli category is a category naturally associated to any monad T. It is equivalent to the category of free T-algebras. The Kleisli category is one of two extremal solutions to the question Does every monad arise from an adjunction? The other extremal solution is the Eilenberg–Moore category. Kleisli categories are named for the mathematician Heinrich Kleisli.
out of that the only sentence I can say I truly understood is the last one
@allquixotic For a sec thought it's "McDonaldonology"...
23:03

Magmas

2 hours ago, 16 minutes total – 11 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 2 hours ago by Jimmy Hoffa

^-- worst explanation of magmas available online, from yours truly.
...yeah, it's time to go home from work... I got enough out of my CS education to understand the theoretical underpinnings of a lot of different programming paradigms, but apparently not FP
@allquixotic I don't understand a great deal of this jargon either, the real category stuff like that get's very hazy in my head, but I get better bit by bit... here's some lovely reading from someone who understands all of this nonsense way better than I (and if you want to try and contort your brain)
263
A: What does "coalgebra" mean in the context of programming?

Tikhon JelvisAlgebras I think the place to start would be to understand the idea of an algebra. This is just a generalization of algebraic structures like groups, rings, monoids and so on. Most of the time, these things are introduced in terms of sets, but since we're among friends, I'll talk about Haskell t...

@allquixotic The real payoff is when you realize all of the good stuff that has been making programming easier and more fun bit by bit over the last decade has entirely come from folks who learned this stuff and then carried it back to their languages. As I was eluding to earlier, LINQ is a direct ripoff of Haskell's list monad from Erik Meijer who spent most of the 90s developing the Haskell language with the other folks who went on to develop .NET afterwards
JQuery is a direct implementation of all that same type of theory as well, there's plenty of examples of the crazy FP stuff in current industry usage, people just don't realize it
23:21
user image
2
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
@Mr.IDon'tCare Wrong name? Like he signed his test under somebody else?
23:51
@Mr.IDon'tCare i think this actually happened to me
@Boris_yo Yup! lol :) You do the work but misspell your name or something and someone else gets the 100 on their test, lol
What's the difference between Visual Studio 2013 Ultimate compared to VS 2013 Pro?
@Mr.IDon'tCare Is there a way to prove it to undo it?

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