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16:00
my new box has a P8Z77-V, which is a piece of shit
and cheap, too
@allquixotic Yeah either way, ebay is brimming with those things going for well over $200, toss it out there to amortize the cost of your upgrade
Similar and a lot cheaper:
I want a Z88 with an actually good BIOS and no bugs that ASUS refuses to resolve
Bob
Bob
@JimmyHoffa Just remember that people selling != people buying
16:02
@Bob Yes, but you can look at the historical sales, and furthermore: If there's a significant number of product X for sale at price Y, chances are price Y is general market value
“Baught Upgraded MOBO selling old one”
@allquixotic Suggestions for windows software that will do a VDPAU/DXVA/CUDA/what-have-you encoding? I'm going to give a try at those open source windows DVB drivers when I get home
Sometimes I hate the part of me that knows enough about software to genuinely ponder porting shit from nix to windows just for my own personal use, but then I'm wildly grateful for the part of me that has spent enough years writing software to know how totally non-trivial that actually is, and realizes I'd rather just sit on the couch watching netflix with my wife..
@allquixotic looked any closer at Learn You A Haskell?
@JimmyHoffa not lately :( been fighting GPU encoding now, lol
@JimmyHoffa I hate to say it because of the sticker-shock involved in buying it, but Sony Vegas Pro.
Bob
Bob
@JimmyHoffa As I said, MediaEspresso works with CUDA and supposedly supports APP and QSV.
although yeah, MediaEspresso is probably better because it uses CUDA
Bob
Bob
16:13
However, from personal experience its QSV support is very dodgy - it requires an old version of the driver.
And i can't remember the name of the software that supported DXVA @_@
@Bob CUDA is a much more mature (in terms of years public) API, so I imagine it's pretty stable by now
Bob
Bob
I'm not sure about any free programs, though.
Ah yes, it was in the ffmpeg wall of shame iirc
Bob
Bob
MediaEspresso is $40. Not too bad, if you're serious about it (try the trial first).
16:14
@allquixotic MediaEspresso, I'll give that a look, if the free trial gives me fast enough encoding $40 aint much
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Yea, just took a look. now I'm scared :(
I swear that's more than Adobe AE
@Bob and I bought an upgrade to Sony Vegas Pro 12, which was a lot less than retail but still expensive :S
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic $200 vs $600... still a lot :S
Uses DXVA
16:15
@Bob the other reason I hate the part of me that is competent in writing software... the fact that no company's release this shit with their API's makes me angry
It's a tad bit faster than using the CPU :P
@JimmyHoffa way I see it, when some brand new hardware idea comes out, it can take a very long time for it to really get baked into the software ecosystem... software moves slowly, and widely-available, cheap, stable software moves even slower
Bob
Bob
@JimmyHoffa I'm pretty sure the APIs are publicly available. It's just that video encoding with hardware acceleration is not an "easy" problem to solve.
@Bob Fair enough, I suppose just because they release a cuda API doesn't mean they have the cuda code that does the encoding
now if they didn't release encoders with their fixed-function-pipeline api that would be bullshit
16:16
@JimmyHoffa also, CUDA is patent-encumbered, so other vendors besides Nvidia can't implement it without paying Nvidia a license fee, which they wouldn't want to do
@JimmyHoffa actually, there was nothing -- literally NOTHING -- that did VCE, not even the AMD Catalyst drivers themselves supported it, on GCN cards for like 6 months after their original release
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Hm, you can't even use it? That's news to me.
as I said, software is behind the hardware
@allquixotic Fair point. Score one for nvidia. As much as patent crap like that frustrates me, sometimes I feel like it's almost vindicated when the company does such awesome innovative shit as nvidia does...
@Bob well if AMD were to advertise "we now support the CUDA API on all Radeon HD7000 and later series", Nvidia would be like "yummm lawsuit :D"
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic Oh, I misunderstood you.
16:18
@allquixotic Yeah, that's total bullshit. The company itself should have released the libraries they had for this when they released the hardware (they do have libraries in-house, if they didn't they wouldn't know any of it worked)
it's not the copyright that's a problem -- courts have ruled that you can implement a competitor's API legally and it constitutes fair use -- it's the patents
@allquixotic software has been behind hardware since.... 1994?
@JimmyHoffa thing is, OpenCL is just as capable as CUDA if programmed properly... the challenge is writing good OpenCL code that's efficient on the GPU... it's not a friendly environment but it very much has a high "performance ceiling"
@allquixotic But that's just trademarking, who cares that they don't advertise they support CUDA api, as long as they do
@JimmyHoffa no, it's neither trademark nor copyright that's the problem; it's the patents on the algorithms or patterns that you need to support to implement CUDA at all
CUDA is patent encumbered in a similar way to OpenGL -- you can't implement the entire spec in the way it was intended without infringing someone's patent
16:20
@allquixotic Ah, what a crock.
in OpenGL, you can't make textures floating point without a patent license from HTC (used to be S3, but they got bought)
Newflash: Patent system totally fucked in the face of software industry.
-1988
@allquixotic that's where S3 went...
actually, more like: patent system stifling software innovation for ~20 years; news at 11
... wait, isn't there a rule that states that if you arrive to the same conclusion by your own resources (ie. figuring out the free (as freedom) specifications) you are not infringing anyones patent?
16:21
@Braiam no, that rule does not exist
@JimmyHoffa Why?
Bob
Bob
Adobe Premiere => QSV encoding \o/
@allquixotic you friking kidding me....
what a morons...
@Braiam if someone were to patent the derivative in calculus, e.g. the fundamental theorem of calculus, like integral (f(x)') dx = f(x), then even if you discovered/invented the fundamental theorem of calculus simply by living in an isolated location on the moon and writing math in your notebook, you'd be violating the patent
16:23
@Boris_yo Oh boy, look just fire off an e-mail to [email protected] asking what's wrong with the patent system, I don't want to explain it right now..
@Gowtham Amoral protagonist = anti-hero?
of course, if you were on the moon, you couldn't be sued, but if you then released products in the USA that depended on your discovery, you'd violate the patent that came before you
@allquixotic and the moonite courts are a fucking nightmare
@Boris_yo depends :D
but yeah, "open standards" that are patent-encumbered are pretty much useless (here's looking at you, MPEG-LA, OpenGL and friends!)
16:24
btw, why people wants to use downvoted answers? askubuntu.com/questions/356998/…
except in New Zealand
me, @DarthAndroid and @JimmyHoffa should move in together in a house in New Zealand and make occasional train rides or airplane flights to @Bob in Aussieland ;)
we could share tech in a sort of communist "pool" of spare parts, etc
unless some of you have women.... that would be a deal breaker... I mean, real geeks are lifelong single :P
8
You should share a room with that Mega guy
@allquixotic oh gee
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic wouldn't even need a visa :)
@Bob but I would need a VISA
@Bob o0
Why ?
16:26
(credit card of some type to buy stuff)
only drawback of living in kiwi land is we'd have to pay ~$2000 USD equivalent for a $300 piece of software... stupid Adobe
@allquixotic was that a random example or did you actually know that really happened?
Bob
Bob
> The Trans-Tasman Travel Arrangement allows Australian and New Zealand citizens to live and work in each other's country without restrictions. On arrival in Australia, most New Zealand citizens who do not hold another visa and present a valid New Zealand passport are granted a Special Category Visa (SCV). Grant of an SCV is also subject to the applicant meeting health and character requirements.
> The SCV is a temporary visa that allows the holder to remain and work in Australia indefinitely as long as the holder remains a New Zealand citizen.
@terdon random -- it didn't really happen, did it? I mean, Newton didn't patent Calculus, did he?!
Liebnitz and Newton both discovered calculus independently.
!!wiki Gottfried_Wilhelm_Leibniz
Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibniz ( or ) (July 1, 1646 – November 14, 1716) was a German mathematician and philosopher. He occupies a prominent place in the history of mathematics and the history of philosophy. Leibniz developed the infinitesimal calculus independently of Isaac Newton, and Leibniz's mathematical notation has been widely used ever since it was published. It was only in the 20th century that his Law of Continuity and Transcendental Law of Homogeneity found mathematical implementation (by means of non-standard analysis). He became one of the most prolific inventors in the ...
16:28
@Bob Cool :D
well, I knew that part. but Newton didn't patent it in the way that we would today in order to sue Liebniz
No, but there was a big stink and it caused great friction between them :)
litigious society didn't really exist back then in the realm of ideas
if that same sequence of events happened today, they'd have discovered calculus while working for a multi-billion$ corporation, and they'd sue each other into oblivion over who found it first.
!!wiki Leibniz–Newton_calculus_controversy
The calculus controversy (often referred to with the German term Prioritätsstreit, meaning ‘priority dispute’) was an argument between 17th-century mathematicians Isaac Newton and Gottfried Leibniz (begun or fomented in part by their disciples and associates – see Development of the quarrel below) over who had first invented calculus. It is a question that had been the cause of a major intellectual controversy, one that began simmering in 1699 and broke out in full force in 1711. Newton claimed to have begun working on a form of the calculus (which he called "the method of fluxions a...
16:30
and trade embargo each others' products in consumerist countries
@allquixotic ;D
So yeah, @allquixotic great example!
@jokerdino damnit! too late to delete
Oh yay!
Gowtham is over there like "my soul is crushed - I have to choose between real geekdom and a girl"
16:32
Yeah, you bowled him over.
@allquixotic hardly! One just needs to know that non-geeks (of all sexes) are not interested in geeky stuff. As long as you don't try and to hit on a non-geek by quoting algorithms, you can be fine.
@terdon can be, true, but physical attraction is more of a thing these days for women than it used to be, and I've got nunadat ;p
Ah, you see, that's why us guitarists get the girl, the guitar hides the pot belly!
They [girls] don't know what they really want.
?that's why the players play them.
16:35
@terdon but singing doesn't :P
god, so much blog-sense right there
I have a voice only half as good as Luciano Pavarotti and a physique at least as large as his
Luciano Pavarotti, Cavaliere di Gran Croce OMRI (; 12 October 19356 September 2007) was an Italian operatic tenor who also crossed over into popular music, eventually becoming one of the most commercially successful tenors of all time. He made numerous recordings of complete operas and individual arias, gaining worldwide fame for the brilliance and beauty of his tone—especially into the upper register—and eventually established himself as one of the finest tenors of the 20th century. As one of The Three Tenors, Pavarotti became well known for his televised concerts and media appearance...
@allquixotic I've got a front man to do the singing, I just stand stage right and do the solos :)
@allquixotic hmmm, perhaps drums then? :)
@allquixotic I felt inclined to spread geek-kind through the act of progenation. I will indoctrinate him with all of the things I should have known early on to make him a better geek than I ever were. He will grow up with our family-time doctor who marathons, yearly zombie walks (just had his 4th saturday) and very soon he will be aged enough to help me put together a computer. I still remember being a lad when my pops showed me "the red line indicates pin 1 on the ribbon cable"
@terdon nah, I could sing. I have an operatic voice though -- not a modern/rock/pop voice -- too much natural vibrato
Luciano Pavarotti is widely recognized as one of, if not the best singer ever -- being half as good as him isn't bad at all
@JimmyHoffa yeah, problem is, kids tend to become the opposite of what you try to make them
16:38
@allquixotic I am quite familiar with pavarotti, first CD I ever bought (though I had tapes before that) was the three tenors in concert.Must have been about 14.
@terdon oh cool :)
@allquixotic On his concerts, he uses wet hanky to put edge of it in his mouth so that his mouth won't get dry.
@Gowtham "10 ways to make everyone root..." OH WAIT.
@terdon parents raised me with classic rock, I still like that stuff instinctually, but these days I listen to Andrea Bocelli, Sting, Charles Aznavour, Placido Domingo, Josh Groban, Rocio Durcal, Sarah Brightman, and that sort :P
The Best Videogame Ever Made
16:40
@allquixotic Yeah, oh well, if he ends up a shite I'll just throw him out "Things are tough all over, get used to it"
@allquixotic raised on classical and some classic rock, turned to Jazz in my early 20ies.
@terdon learned Spanish in primary school and college, so I listen to a lot of traditional pop in Spanish
hence, half of the artists I mentioned above sing partially or entirely in Spanish
Ouch, can't stand that stuff :). Spent 7 years in Spain and had to hear a lot of it.
Neapolitan, Italian and French are lovely to listen to also but I don't know them as actual languages outside of the context of songs
traditional pop style crosses a lot of languages these days, though... Bocelli's most recent two albums have Portugese, English, Spanish, French, Italian, and Neapolitan songs
@allquixotic Not really, I find it annoying that I can't find a common topic between girls and me
I can't find a girl who speaks computer :[
16:50
@Gowtham or cat for what matters ;)
@Braiam heh, cats are cute ^_^
@Gowtham You're looking at the wrong girls, maybe?
@ThatHelpVampireGuy perhaps :P i don't really care tbh
I do know a lot of girls that are into videogames, comics and programming.
And you are in Brazil, that's half a world away ;p
16:54
"Geek" is getting mainstream. Sure, it's more "I like comics, star wars / trek, and spend a lot of time in social networks" rather than "I think building my own computer and spending time on tech chats is cool", but at leats "nerd" isn't that much of a derogatory term anymore
I just wish it had happened 15 years ago when I was at high school
Or when I was single ;P
O_O
No matter what I do, my wife/girlfriend can't find tech stuff interesting .__.
@ThatHelpVampireGuy the type of extreme geek that I am is moving further and further away from the mainstream as the mainstream comes up to meet me
2
@ThatHelpVampireGuy just live a double life... like cool guys in series does...
I'll be running GNU/Hurd by the time a girl would enjoy talking to me about Linux kernel compile options
16:56
I managed to get my Raspberry Pi controlled by the TV remote, was so excited I almost started jumping... I show it to her, she goes "meh".
@ThatHelpVampireGuy "I wrote this really cool plugin for Rhythmbox that lets you change the pitch/tempo/speed of songs!" ==> "you're weird"
4
meh, that's why... I am labeled as the "quiet cool guy"... as I don't have nothing interesting to say, but when I talk is interesting
@Braiam lies
The only way I can get her interested in games is if it has some Mario in it...
@Braiam you're Cool 'N Quiet? ASUS Copyright violation !!!!!!!
you need to talk more, that way ASUS won't sue you for being a physical representation of their Cool 'N Quiet computers
16:59
@jokerdino at least I'm not a crude dinosaur :P
@allquixotic BRING THEM TO ME!
I need to update rbpitch for Rhythmbox 3.0 and gstreamer 1.0
@allquixotic Rhy 3 fails on importing music. Never mind. I click wrong buttons.
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic trademark*
@Bob oh come on! you and @JimmyHoffa both, nitpicking me copyright vs trademark... at least I know the difference between copyright and patents :P
17:03
@allquixotic the new version is looking nice and good.
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic hipster geek :P
2
damn you fedora won't bashcomplete git anymore .____.
in Ask Ubuntu General Room, 1 hour ago, by Amith KK
Just Imagine with Siri in the ways...

U.S. troops - "Bomb this facility" *tap*
Siri - Couldn't find the address. Using your current location by default.
6
O_O please, kudos to Amith KK too :P
@allquixotic I'll patent copyrighting and then everyone will be screwed! Muaha!
17:10
@allquixotic What o_0 ?
You sir shall remain Forever alone
@JimmyHoffa IBM beat you to it
And I trust people too little to even get a proper friend :P
A good trick would be to copyright your name, then you can sue people for sending you unsolicited snail mail for copyright infringement.
@Gowtham you are a cat after all
$ cat /etc/os-release
NAME=Fedora
VERSION="20 (Heisenbug)"
ID=fedora
VERSION_ID=20
PRETTY_NAME="Fedora 20 (Heisenbug)"
ANSI_COLOR="0;34"
CPE_NAME="cpe:/o:fedoraproject:fedora:20"
REDHAT_BUGZILLA_PRODUCT="Fedora"
REDHAT_BUGZILLA_PRODUCT_VERSION=20
REDHAT_SUPPORT_PRODUCT="Fedora"
REDHAT_SUPPORT_PRODUCT_VERSION=20
Heisenbugs.
17:31
@jokerdino why not Heisenberg? I know the real Heisenberg but also from Breaking Bad :O
@allquixotic It must be nice these days to be the main-stream geek that's revered as o-so-smart with his tech saavy earned from frequent reading of engadget and software opinion blogs, how unfortunate it is for those of us who actually know wtf we're talking about to occasionally find ourselves stuck in a conversation with these folks reverred for their mad dunning-kruger skills
@JimmyHoffa lol
I dunno; I think everyone suffers from a bit of DKE in what they consider to be their area of expertise -- even if you're within the worldwide top 2000 practitioners of your subject matter area, that still means you might think you're hot shit, when there are maybe 1999 other people who are better than you at it
@allquixotic Look, you can do it too, just repeat after me: "Apple has a new LMN bus, it will make your app store secure"
@allquixotic nope, you're ignoring the large incidence of imposter syndrome found among people who show to be genuinely competent
sucks that those are basically your two choices: Blissful ignorance, or miserable knowledge
@allquixotic Though I completely agree. This is why I learned Haskell to begin with and one of the reasons I've attached to it so much; I'm always looking for folks who are clearly smarter/better than me at all this software stuff I do, and I found many mentions of Haskell among them, and then after learning it I found out that the people who are Haskellers make clear to me how little I really understand software and computing...
@JimmyHoffa at least I don't think DKE (or imposter syndrome) has any predictive power -- it's basically a reversal of thought -- I don't think it makes sense to reason that all (or even most) people who think they're awesome, are actually foolish pretenders, and all/most people who think they're incompetent are actually geniuses
as much as I may be decent at .NET, those folks give me something to aspire to because they are wayy better at bloody everything software related than me...
17:45
certainly there are people, even among the legions who've never heard of DKE or imposter syndrome, who rightly believe they are incompetent, or rightly believe they are at the top of their industry
@allquixotic True. DKE and imposter are (probably?) not the majority in any given space. Other than the space known as "smug tech blog readers" heh
@JimmyHoffa I like to aspire. I find that hanging out in open source communities with project maintainers of major open source software at least brought me up to snuff as far as the "systems hacker" knowledge goes -- debugging, troubleshooting, reading log files, knowing low level system API semantics, etc
without any commercial or academic incentive, I've learned: XSLT, XPath, Vala, advanced regex, and the inner workings of: GStreamer, ffmpeg, Bullet physics engine, a major desktop audio player (Rhythmbox), Eclipse, ALSA, PulseAudio, and OpenSimulator. and that's just within the past ~3 years
and to a lesser extent, Mesa
I'm what Valve would call a "T-Shaped" person -- but I still need to learn the innards of a functional language so that haughty CS theorists can't just dismiss me like "you know nothing about real programming"
The concept of T-shaped skills, or T-shaped persons is a metaphor used in job recruitment to describe the abilities of persons in the workforce. The vertical bar on the T represents the depth of related skills and expertise in a single field, whereas the horizontal bar is the ability to collaborate across disciplines with experts in other areas and to apply knowledge in areas of expertise other than one's own. The earliest reference is by David Guest in 1991. Tim Brown, CEO of the IDEO design consultancy defended this approach to résumé assessment as a method to build interdisciplinary wor...
18:01
@allquixotic neat little tutorial, might not be super clear not knowing the syntax but it might show one of the really cool things about Haskell's flavor of FP: A significant deal of the information about a function can be inferred by consumers simply by the type signature, to the point of inferring the entire implementation simply by the functions signature. matthew.brecknell.net/post/hole-driven-haskell
@allquixotic Iduno if this is me or not, I have great depth of enterprise application development understanding but I've done lots of different tasks in the lifecycle of it because having no degree I had to take a lateral route to get there by basically taking every technical opportunity at software company's I could, I suppose that's breadth but is it depth too? Meh, probably not though I have done lots of training in those other tasks at work places so it's not necessarily shallow either..
18:17
What's the relation between LGA115{0,5,6} sockets regarding CPU compatibility? Does any one of them have compatibility with all the other 3s CPUs?
is there zero cross-compatibility so you get one and you're cornered into only it's CPUs?
uhm. Usually another socket for an Intel CPU means incompatible with all other socket.
@Hennes That's not always the case
There are some exceptions. 486 era. AMD AM2 and AM# sockets.
But most of the time you can not put a modern CPU into an older socket or vice versa.
@Hennes All the same, I'm just hoping there's some based on the fact that the LGA115* all kind of popped out in (to my knowledge) very close proximity in time to eachother, and realistically they like changing the sockets as infrequently as possible
When they added new features they needed pins for those. Different pin -> different socket
E.g. build in GPU on the die -> pins for those
48 PCIe lanes and 3 memory channels -> moooaar pins (socket 1366)
18:27
@Hennes Though sometimes more pins on the socket doesn't mean the mobo can't support chips with less pins
Aye. But when there are 'wasted' pins then the board is more expensive than it needs to be. And manufacturers really do not like spending 0.01 ct on a $200 board if they can avoid it.
18:39
Damn. Reading ipconfig output can make you hungry.
0
Q: Can't get IP on Windows 7 after (even more) extensive troubleshooting

raddevonI posted here a while back about a problem pulling an IP from my router's DHCP on a Windows 7 machine. Since posting that message, I've taken even more drastic steps, but I still can't pull and maintain an IP from DHCP. Sometimes, my computer will boot with an IP and keep it for a while (20-30 m...

@JimmyHoffa without researching the individual sockets, I know off the top of my head, recent Intel CPU socket changes: Core 2 -> Nehalem -> (Sandy/Ivy) -> Haswell
there's also the Enthusiast series which uses a different socket, for example Sandy Bridge-E, hella expensive, up to 6 cores with HT, no iGPU, for instance 3970X
Nehalem might've been a bit of an aberration I think, but in general, each microarchitecture (tock) shares a socket with the following process node step (tick) for each "line" of CPUs, the lines being: one or more mobile lines of varying steps of low voltage; mainstream desktop; enthusiast desktop; mainstream/uniprocessor server; and multiprocessor server
@allquixotic Any reason to think LGA1150 (Haswell) would support a Nehalem (1155) chip?
so Sandy-EP should be socket compatible with Ivy-EP, but not Haswell-EP
@JimmyHoffa absolutely none
LGA 1150, also called Socket H3, is an Intel microprocessor compatible socket which supports the Intel Haswell microprocessor and its future successor, Broadwell. LGA 1150 is designed as a replacement for the LGA 1155 (known as Socket H2). LGA 1150 has 1150 protruding pins to make contact with the pads on the processor. Cooling systems for LGA 1155 and LGA 1156 sockets are compatible with LGA 1150, due to them having the same distance of 75 mm between each screw hole. All socket 1150 motherboards support varying video outputs (VGA, DVI, HDMI - depending on a model) and Intel Clear Vi...
18:47
I'm pondering this right now... ebay.com/itm/… would that have the no-fsb thing you mentioned?
@JimmyHoffa without even clicking on it -- yes
that's the first-gen point-to-point tech called QPI that replaces FSB
how does one add "favorite" tags?
actually no! that's not QPI; that's DMI 2.0
@allquixotic And QPI is considerably better?
Maybe I should think about this with this will leave a lot of room for improvement on the CPU side at a later date (as in when the standard LGA2011 comes down in price 2 years from now)
but should still commit a significant improvement over my current CPU/mobo
0
Q: Confusion with terms -> FSB, QPI, HT, DMI, UMI

user1301037I'm a bit confused about some terms used by CPU manufacturers. I know that FSB is a bus that connect CPU to Northbridge and that QPI (Intel) and HT (AMD) replaced this technology. The new architecture has an integrated memory controller. But some manufactures shows the DMI (Intel) and UMI (AMD)...

there's one more diagram I'd draw to the right of that to represent the current (Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge or Haswell) state of affairs:
CPU <-> PCH using DMI 2.0, and no southbridge, because the PCH controls absolutely everything
so the evolution has gone: FSB -> QPI -> DMI
The Platform Controller Hub (PCH) is a family of Intel microchips, introduced circa 2008. It is the successor to the previous Intel Hub Architecture, which used a northbridge and southbridge instead, and first appeared in the Intel 5 Series. The PCH controls certain data paths and support functions used in conjunction with Intel CPUs. These include clocking (the system clock), Flexible Display Interface (FDI) and Direct Media Interface (DMI), although FDI is only used when the chipset is required to support a processor with integrated graphics. As such, I/O Functions are reassigned betwee...
18:59
So QPI is on-chip, and DMI is chip-to-components ?
(so DMI 2 is basically as good as I'll get?)
@JimmyHoffa yeah, actually it's more complicated than that; depending on whether your CPU uses integrated graphics, you'd use either FDI or DMI, but think of them as just really fast (ultra low latency and extremely wide lanes for data flows) buses
that's actually a terrible oversimplification
and I made a terminology error there
for something to be a bus, it has to involve a wire or set of wires that are electrically shared among multiple components, meaning those components all compete for time sending signals down that/those wire(s)
but QPI and later (including the DMI/FDI things) are all point to point interfaces
they are not buses, because there is no physical sharing of electrical contacts between devices, because each PCI Express lane gets its own "wire"
"wire" is kind of a dated term because the interconnects are so tiny, but you get the idea
if your HDD wants to write a bunch of data at the same time that your CPU wants to send your GPU a huge texture, the CPU and PCH do not have to schedule an interleaving of I/O events down a shared electrical contact (a bus) for that to happen
for FSB architectures (Core 2 and older), they do
of course, your SATA controller may have internal contention if you have lots of HDDs attached to it, it may have to schedule each hard drive, but eventually the SATA controller connects to the PCH by way of PCI Express, and the lane(s) it consumes are dedicated to that SATA controller - no GPUs or video capture cards or network cards sharing it
dedicated all the way to the CPU
but yeah, DMI/FDI 2.0 with a PCH is the architecture they've been using since Sandy Bridge, up through Ivy Bridge and the current Haswell
that means for example, an X58 chipset and Nehalem CPU (like an i7-920) would be using QPI, which is the step in between the FSB and the PCH
but starting with the Core i{3,5,7}-{2,3,4}[0-9]{3} line, you're getting DMI/FDI 2.0 connected to a PCH
the tendency of late has been to eliminate classical points of contention within the hardware architecture and provide more direct contact between peripherals and pins on the CPU
@allquixotic I hope you're happy. You just made me impulse purchase something.
@JimmyHoffa what?
Somebody accidentally bought from newegg an LGA1155 mobo and an LGA1150 CPU, so they ebayed the chip for $55
@JimmyHoffa LOL wat
so you're buying a Haswell CPU?
19:12
@allquixotic apparently... now to find a cheap haswell mobo and some DDR3 ram...
@JimmyHoffa haha nice! congrats! now you're right back up to date :D
@JimmyHoffa by the way, in the very likely event that you bought a Haswell processor with an iGPU, it might begin to give your old GTX 260 a run for its money. I'm not saying it'll be faster? but it might give it pause :D
and for video encoding, it will definitely be worlds faster
I'm kinda jelly now. Your Intel QSV will be faster than my Ivy Bridge one's
@JimmyHoffa if you aren't playing 3d games, you might be happy with the performance of the integrated graphics and not even need to use your Nvidia card. that would certainly simplify your configuration and eliminate a huge headache on the software-side
I can't believe java can bring back xenon 2
for reference, Haswell desktop graphics have a similar performance profile on most benchmarks (except video encoding, where it's much faster) when compared to this
maybe in the year 3500 java will be able to run windows 7!
@barlop Let me tell you a secret: DOSbox has been able to bring it back, with the advantage of not needing a browser, not needing an internet connection, and not being java.
19:27
yeah but almost any computer nowadays has a browser.. no need for something external to just play it for a few moments for fun, but indeed dosbox is better if you want to play it seriously!
19:43
$15 shy of newegg price, can't complain, the guy just ate $15 for a mistake basically heh
@JimmyHoffa Pentium? whoa
now that is a name I haven't heard in a long time.... </obiwan>
@JimmyHoffa umm...
Let the buyer beware or something like that
No QSV
Too low-end
Yeah, iduno. Whatever. The point was to get the cheapest of latest sockets, I can upgrade the CPU in some time, the motherboard improvement even with that CPU should still be much better than my current wolfdale
@JimmyHoffa true
Pentium threw me too
had to double check my eyes heh
anyway, that anadtech article above (here) is a great read, extremely technical, and you'll learn a lot
19:47
and literally, the motherboard I have is well.. it's something to behold... some ex-gateway office machine mobo
from probably like '05
20:19
945G-something is my current motherboard if I recall correctly
convenient, since it's non-OEM but straight from newegg still in box unopened, it'll come with a cooler; I'll need one of those.
@JimmyHoffa make sure you get a good motherboard if you're planning to upgrade the CPU
@allquixotic Aye, considering how new Haswell is I could just find myself with a motherboard that doesn't support anything beyond the initial set of chips or some such
@allquixotic as a rule, it's more trouble than it's worth to try and get one of the intel iGPU's to dual with my discrete card, yeah? I got that working with my ATI laptop and the 7670m + 6520g but it was a major pain to get them to tie together
also I assume a PCI-E 2 GPU can go into a PCI-E 3 slot/
20:37
@JimmyHoffa the "tie together" (to use both at the same time for graphics rendering) would come from a chip from LucidLogix on the motherboard (so you'd have to specifically buy a mobo that contains this chip, otherwise you wouldn't have it)
in theory, even without LucidLogix, you can use the Haswell iGPU's QuickSync Video encoding even if your primary graphics adapter is the Nvidia discrete card, but I haven't been able to get that particular configuration to work on my Ivy Bridge system.
to use both the Nvidia card and the Intel iGPU to do graphics rendering at the same time you would absolutely need the LucidLogix part on your motherboard
software support, both from end-user applications and from the drivers themselves by LucidLogix, is extremely spotty, though.
@allquixotic Ah ok, whatever I suspect with the CPU no longer bottlenecking my card, the GTX260 should give me plenty more life (even with the crappy mobo/chip I have right now it's still able to game just fine)
and yeah I'll get the encoding at significantly better quality now..
@JimmyHoffa heh, the upgrade to DDR3 RAM will do a huge favor to you for gaming
That too, I run on 2gb of DDR533 right now O_O
@JimmyHoffa yes, PCI-E revisions are fully backwards compatible in both directions
20:42
@JimmyHoffa with a Core 2 CPU and 2 GB of DDR533, I'm surprised you're able to game at all -- that decent GPU is way, way out-classed in that box
grab at least 8 GB of DDR3-1333, if not -1600
@JimmyHoffa newegg doesn't do international shipping nor use PO box :(
@allquixotic Come now, you remember how it used to was... the days back when short of affording the top-hardware, software outstripped what your machine could do so everyone had to learn the ways of tuning and tweaking every little inch of their settings to get that perfect ratio of good-enough-quality and playable-performance :)
thing is, I just still do that...
@JimmyHoffa tweaking your software is still a big thing, but vendors give us less control over stuff now, usually, unless you get parts with an unlocked multiplier
that RAM looks great
I don't need expansion slots, I have a pci-e tuner and my GPU and that mobo gives me slots for just that, what more do I need
@JimmyHoffa well if you could get a mobo with LucidLogix Virtu MVP, at least you'd have the potential to at some point in the future (once the software works) combine your meh Nvidia GPU and your meh Intel iGPU to equal an actually good throughput o_O
your configuration is really the ideal configuration for getting LucidLogix running, because neither your GPU nor your CPU can take a high-end AAA game on its back and run with it on high detail
but combined together, they could do well
20:49
@allquixotic Nice idea but I have a feeling it's not worth the effort to find (guessing they're uncommon) or money when I could just spend that extra on upgrading the cpu or gpu
@JimmyHoffa they're not that uncommon or expensive. it's not like you have to buy a $300 mobo to get it. my mobo was like $170 and it has it.
do you need Micro form factor? :/
@allquixotic No, I just need cheap :D
(really not sure why micro is cheaper...)
perhaps I try this instead, then I can put a pci wifi-N card in newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186234
that's a good mobo with Virtu MVP
I'm not used to lowballing this much on computer hardware; I spend a lot on it... I'm a bad advisor for you lol
@allquixotic haha, I'm just always glad when I get an ugprade in under a couple hundred dollars that ends up lasting me another hand full of years well
@JimmyHoffa I like it when a system lasts me a long time too, but I can't abide lowballed hardware for gaming... for other stuff, fine, but not for gaming
my HD7970 shipped to me on 2/25/2012 and I have no plans to get rid of it any time soon (though I may add another HD7970 in Crossfire when the prices on them depreciate due to newer stuff being available)
my i7-3770K shipped on 4/30/2012
therefore I assembled my P8Z77-V mobo + 3770K + 32GB DDR3-1600 in the first week of May '12
(I had the HD7970 for about 2 months in my old Core i7 920 system)
I'll probably keep my current setup with minimal modifications/upgrades (maybe a new RAID controller for faster bootup and suspend to RAM) through 2014, and upgrade the whole rig in Q1 2015
for a serious core gamer, a system lasting from Q1 '12 to Q1 '15 isn't bad
it really isn't
I decided a while ago that it's just not worth my money for the incremental upgrade to Haswell, when Broadwell is only about 5/4ths of a year out, and, being a die shrink, it's gonna be a big improvement
21:17
@allquixotic I've had this system in it's current configuration since 6/10 which was an upgrade of PSU + GTX260 + e7200 for ~$180, and I just dropped $180 to upgrade it again which should get me another ~3 years, at which point I'll upgrade the CPU (and maybe GPU, who knows) for probably a small amount
Key is to never give myself the best hardware, or else I'll expect everything to be high performance ;D
Thinking about it, you're right, that 8gb of DDR3 should probably make it feel like a whole new computer heh
...and my spare parts pile increases... I should sell this stuff somehow...
I'll actually have enough spare parts for a whole new computer at this point with my old PSU/video card, and soon to be old mobo/cpu/ram... sans HD or case heh
@JimmyHoffa o_O
so you run games on low detail? or you just get 12 FPS?
because I can't be competitive with crap FPS, and games that advertise "graceful reduction" to support older hardware, usually end up looking awful on anything lower than medium-high detail (turning down shadows and AA is usually ok, but lower texture quality, usually not)
@allquixotic It can surprisingly pull off medium detail, but that goes back to my previous statements of tweaking and tuning every setting in the software for each and every game
ah I don't compete or anything like that
@JimmyHoffa PlanetSide 2 is extremely competitive -- if you aren't competing, you may as well not even play
The other benefit is: 6/10 was my re-entry into playing any games at all after ~8 years away working on my career. So I have a huge swath of older games to catch up on which is much fun! :D It's all new to me!
!!tell 11797511 xkcd 606
@allquixotic Still haven't finished Half-Life 2 since then :D And yes it did kind of stink finding the cake was a lie sometime last year lol
@JimmyHoffa The cake is not a lie... If you wallhack
@JimmyHoffa thanks for the star -- that message is definitely worth stars considering the timing of placing it there, in reply to your message above
@allquixotic Actually the most enjoyment I'd had so far with my re-entry to gaming has been catching up on the assassins creed series, they each end on cliffhangers but the next one's already out! :D
21:34
@JimmyHoffa yeah, i actually do that with TV series
I started watching Breaking Bad about 3 months ago
finished it the weekend before last
about a week after the last episode aired on cable
@allquixotic I just introduced my wife to dead zone a couple months ago, god bless netflix
@JimmyHoffa netflix is great but I ended up paying Amazon Video On Demand full price for the HD 1080p download of the last half-season of Breaking Bad
it was like $22 or something (netflix didn't have it yet)
plus, my internet connection can sometimes be unreliable, and actually downloading the media to disk before starting to play it is great, no drop-outs or degradation of quality
Aye, that is the one downside to my WD TV Live SMP I just upgraded my roku to recently (it's upgrade time at the Hoffa residence...), no amazon VOD. But it's worth it for the native network share access with all forms of codecs you could want so I don't need to run a UPnP server just to send the media down
also, how could you exit gaming for eight years?! what were you doing? you weren't getting a degree? did you work 16 hours a day?
I work full time (sometimes more than full time, heh) and I still game heavily most nights unless I get home at like 9pm
@JimmyHoffa Amazon Unbox is my favorite service for watching new stuff that isn't on Netflix yet, though in all honesty, I spend only about 12% of my entertainment time watching video, and the other 87% time either modding games or playing them or writing code / general hacking
@allquixotic Eh, working, partying, life and stuff. I only got back into it because you stop being able to leave the house much after having a kid, so you start trying to find entertainment at home more again
21:39
partying -- that's something I've never got into
@allquixotic It's fun, you drink a lot and then say stupid things and people laugh
@JimmyHoffa I do that in Second Life virtually, and it's not something I'd want to do in real life (I do get mildly tipsy from time to time doing that, but not bad enough to be unable to type or read, because that would ruin the experience)
overall I just think it's a huge waste of time and I try to limit my consumption of alcohol to about 2 beers per 6 months
most entertainment (not all) could be fairly classed as a "waste of time", but I prefer my wastes of time to not give me cirrhosis; I want to live a long time :)
then there are things that make you get philosophical and thoughtful and creative, which can be productive sometimes... movies and games (heh, and music) with meaningful elements that make a statement about the human condition etc... I like to spend a lot of my time in that "zone" and less of spacing out or goofing off
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21:57
@allquixotic I go back and forth. I can't keep myself on one thing at a time for too long. Though I may be older, I suspect I don't have much better attention span than my 3 year old. Largely why I got into programming, the only thing that's ever been able to really hold my attention for prolonged periods of time. Entertainment stuff has never done that for me though so I do this then that then something else from one month to the next..

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