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12:36 AM
@JourneymanGeek I'd just boot live and manually format => debootstrap => install bootloader
that's pretty much my standard install process these days anyway
tends to work out better when "format" is zfs and the deb installer doesn't support zfs
1 hour later…
2:02 AM
@JourneymanGeek 64GB
@rahuldottech ah, if you still have trouble I could probably bodge together a image you can throw on with rufus ;p
@JourneymanGeek I'll let you know in a couple hours?
I left the process on overnight, but guess what? UBUNTU LIVE GOES TO SLEEP EVEN WHEN IT'S IN THE MIDDLE OF AN INSTALL PROCESS
So I wake up and there's... no progress
And now the installer is removing stuff? (see above)
that's strange
also is there a text install option?
2:06 AM
@JourneymanGeek no idea how you do that
I'm assuming that's plan vanilla ubuntu...
what version?
@JourneymanGeek yeh, 16.04, iso from official website
.... 16.06?
There is no such thing
oh wait
yeah, typo
hm, that's older, and not an LTS
2:08 AM
@JourneymanGeek is an LTS releases.ubuntu.com/16.04
32 or 64?
ok, let me torrent that, cause that's what torrent is for then poke through it
ok ok thanks
@JourneymanGeek if relevant, here's what I was trying for: 4GB fat32, 4GB swap, 50GB ext4
Similar to that's in the guide that I linked the other day
eww guides
also eww swap partitions
2:14 AM
@JourneymanGeek isn't it necessary to get hibernation working? Or did I read wrongly
@rahuldottech hibernation rarely works
@JourneymanGeek ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh they're helpful to newbies so I'll stick with them while learning, thank you very much ;p
and swap files are better
oh damnit
Q: How do I start the Textual (non-graphical) installer?

John SchulerI'm using the Desktop version of Ubuntu. As soon as the installer starts, I type the Escape key which reveals the F1-F6 options. Tying Escape again gives this dialog: **"You are leaving the graphical boot menu and starting the text mode interface."** I select "OK", but the installer reboots.....

2:38 AM
@JourneymanGeek not if you're using zfs!
well, if you're using zfs, swap at all currently has a nonzero chance of locking the system ... there's a bug ...
but a zvol ("partition") is better than a file :P
@Bob that's a bug not a feature
though you're actually better off using a raw partition so it doesn't have that lock issue...
That's annoying ;p
@JourneymanGeek ain't that just bloody fantastic
3:22 AM
Chocolatey is incredible
4:06 AM
4:30 AM
@JourneymanGeek written by your PM's son ^
@rahuldottech and probable future PM
Also I work with/for a government agency
so I can smell the male bovine post-consumer waste
3 hours later…
7:49 AM
upgrade what you can afford
@northerner depends on what you need
actually that's a great question for chat
that said compiling should take up as much of the processor as possible
you might find that you can't get a faster CPU for your motherboard
8:00 AM
and pretty much nothing should be taking up 100% on a computer that's not totally potato....
It was loading IDE, compiling isn't too long
also more cores/threads can make sense simply cause other tasks can be offloaded to those cores
@JourneymanGeek SystemIdle? ;)
could also be a badly written IDE
@Burgi clever equine....
what IDE is it?
8:02 AM
yeah its a Java application
and what processor do you run now, and do other appications do that too?
Is it at startup or all the time?
running i5 2500K
Just the startup with Netbeans
i use netbeans at home, its not that slow that i notice it TBH
eh, 2nd gen core i5's old but its aged pretty well
@northerner is it ok otherwise?
8:04 AM
@northerner So. Something to be aware of.
You can't judge CPUs by "clock rate and cores"
yea it has aged well. Generally speaking CPU is last thing I'm considering upgrading.
I also run VMs and sometimes they bitch there isn't enough memory
There's a bunch of SU Q&As but the gist is that newer architectures tend to do more work in the same number of clock cycles.
Oh, VMs will eat as much ram as you'd throw at it
and that's probably a decent investment, especially if you can get it cheap
@Bob but wouldn't the new architects need a new socket?
@northerner precisely.
And new ram ._.
(which is why I basically upgraded my entire box from my core i7 3770 when I needed to upgrade...)
tbh, it just needed a new heatsink XD
8:07 AM
@northerner Yes. It's effectively a system upgrade.
You'd also be going from DDR3 => DDR4.
@northerner intel tends to keep compatibility for about 2 gens at most
would you recommend ram 1600Mhz vs 1866Mhz? The price is surprisingly a lot different
AMD does a lot better there
But IIRC from Sandy Bridge up to Skylake you're looking at ~20%, clock for clock.
@northerner I personally wouldn't unless you use onboard graphics and performance matters.
8:08 AM
And that's ignoring that Skylake/Kaby Lake tend to come clocked higher (compare 3.8 GHz to 4.5 GHz boost), and then there's the 6, 8 core in post-Kaby gens...
Oh, might matter on AMD...
@northerner Neither. If you're upgrading RAM at this point, you'd want DDR4. With new mobo and CPU.
@Bob eh ;p
so basically that's a whole new computer XD
I'm spending a bit on topping up my old box to as much ram as I can
8:09 AM
If you're stuck on Sandy Bridge you'd want ... whatever it supports. Which is probably something like 1333.
Anything faster would just clock down to what the CPU supports.
@northerner If you feel you're limited by what you're running? Then, yes.
NOT always true for some high performance systems or APUs but more ram's always better than better/less ram IMO
That said I run a 3770 at work (w/ netbeans etc) and I live, so... ymmv
@Bob ._.
Our work PCs are core i7 3770s running...
and they suck hard ;p
ONE application
8:11 AM
@JourneymanGeek Not worth a read.
Heavily outdated.
@Bob for a sandy, sure.
Basically, when moving to DDR4? Throw away everything you knew about DDR3.
It's better to start fresh.
sadly puget's not updated it
Especially once you throw AMD into the mix...
tech writing's gotten worse :/
@Bob mentioned XD
tbh, that's more draco's field of expertise
8:13 AM
@JourneymanGeek Ok, sure, but if you're stuck on Sandy and probably not overclocking then high-freq RAM is meaningless because it'll only run as fast as you OC.
@Bob hence me saying more is better than faster ;p
I wouldn't bother getting faster ram is I basically needed more ram
on a SB or IB? Cheap and lots feels like a priority, especially since your sticks max out on 8gb
@northerner So. Bottlenecks. If your problem is your CPU is often pegged at 100%, and you feel that is too slow (it all comes down to what you'll put up with) then, yes, you'll need to upgrade. If you really don't want to go for the full system upgrade you can probably grab a socket-compatible 3770k pretty cheap.
Added bonus that the Ivy gen was a pretty big step up in virtualisation performance.
Beyond that? There's only so much you can squeeze out of hardware almost a decade old.
And I can attest a 3770 that's been set up by someone who isn't overloading stuff actually works decently XD
If RAM isn't actually your bottleneck, upgrading there won't immediately help you.
A conventional upgrade is HDD => SSD. If you haven't done that yet, doing that will probably help.
It will at least make everything feel more responsive, if nothing else.
@Bob actually that probably does wonders as far back as core2duos ;p
8:18 AM
But you happen to be in one of the more specialised fields. It's not like running MS Word which rarely pokes the CPU.
You're actually running CPU-intensive applications.
@Bob also, its possible that netbeans just ... does that...
in which case nothing will help
@JourneymanGeek welllll... anecdotally I don't consider it particularly slow on a 3770.
But everyone has different tolerance.
@Bob on his system ;p
8:20 AM
And I keep it open for weeks at a time, so.
could have different things on it
Oh, actually. One fun thing about anything Java-based, incl netbeans.
Also one thing I absolutely hate about Java.
You have to specify the max heap size before start.
And if you set that too low, you just end up with endless GC churn.
So. Set it higher. And pick a modern GC that actually releases memory back to the OS.
G1 is good. CMS is alright. Serial is eh. Parallel (the default...) is terrible.
@Bob sure the folks are work mostly don't know what all those are XD
8:24 AM
Notice how Parallel has the lovely behaviour of ... eating your RAM. And never releasing it. Ever.
I'd like to meet whoever picked it as the default, if only so I can yell at them for a bit.
Thanks clippy.
@JourneymanGeek Rule of thumb? If on Java 9+, run G1. If on 8-, run CMS.
Preferably, find the files where Parallel are implemented and delete them. Fire is recommended.
@Bob ya.. but my job involves "Hey, the monitoring system says the server's on fire" "Ok, restart the app"
@JourneymanGeek Take the fire and tame it. Harness it. Use it.
@Bob I'm just here long enough to end up somewhere more interesting. Or less "interesting"
@Bob what do you mean "Ivy gen was a pretty big step up in virtualisation performance."? From what I red the biggest difference between sandy bridge and ivy was the graphics performance. You mean running VMs would be better with ivy?
@Bob also there's many things I can't talk about, let alone set on fire ;p
8:35 AM
@northerner I may be thinking of APICv, but that's only on Ivy-EP (Xeon, servers, different socket)
4 hours later…
12:32 PM
> The law says that you need a TV Licence to:

watch or record TV programmes live on any channel or device

download or watch any BBC programmes on iPlayer.
You need a licence to be allowed to watch TV???
@MichaelFrank yes that's Uk for ya
but.... why?
Funds public broadcasting
And the other stuff BBC and the other publicly-funded folks (eg C4) do
The BBC's output is advert-free in the UK (except for eg them advertising their own shows between programmes)
Famously, there was an episode of Top Gear that wasn't as positive on some supercar (Zonda? Ferrari? or somesuch) as the manufacturer would like, they apparently rang ghee produces and said "Change this or we'll pull all our ads!"
To which the producer apparently referred them to the response given in Arkell v. Pressdam
Basically it's in the public interest to have a content producer which is free from both commercial and government pressures
Reith set it up to "inform, educate and entertain" (in that order)
It's not perfect, and the BBC has its own biases (as do C4 etc)
But the license fee helps pay for some high quality stuff (opinions may of course vary)
12:59 PM
@bertieb i think it was tesla
@bertieb I actually saw something that could have passed off as a TV detector van....
@Burgi Could be! I thought it was earlier in TG's life than Tesla but rings a bell
@JourneymanGeek Oh?
I didn't take a photo :/
was something with a huge... thing at the back
I know there was controversy over how TG 'tested' the Tesla
belonged to the local telecoms regulator
1:01 PM
And they staged it running out of charge
Local to SG? Or when you were int'UK?
@bertieb it overheated its batteries
went into "limp home" mode
i think the courts threw the claim out because of journalistic freedom
Andy Wilman apparently apologised to the judges because they had to watch so much Top Gear
I thought it was thrown out because it was 'entertainment', not journalism :P
i think nissan also complained about the testing of the nissan leaf
The same excuse a Fox News affiliate used about making up news ISTR
Sounds plausible
They weren't (aren't?) fans of leccy vehicles
i think they are fans of electric power but they aren't fans of batteries and the logistics of owning an EV
vehicles like the honda clarity fit better into modern living
1:13 PM
Speaking of which, Glasgow is apparently racing to go carbon neutral
and thats from the guardian, who hate jeremy clarkson
and is installing loads of public EV recharging points to go with on-street parking
how long until some drunk scot wandering home unplugs all the cars along his route home?
Could happen
stereotype notwithstanding
I guess it'll get less common with time
Folks, inebriated or otherwise, seem to manage to get home without letting the air out of every car's tyres, ro doing other nuisance things, by and large
Notable exceptions do occur of course
If I have a weird visual glitch on a website I don't own or maintain and I want to know what causes it, should I ask that on Stack Overflow or on Super User?
1:25 PM
If you think it's a browser (software) issue, SU could be appropriate
Yeah, it seems browser specific, because I can't replicate it on Firefox at all.
Screenshots can be helpful, as well as any console output reported by the program
And in-browser debug log if there's anything relevant there
yeah, I got a gif
Check where the mouse is and then look at the black bars randomly appearing and disappearing in the navbar of his site
@bertieb local to SG
but if you told me it was a TV detector I'd have believed ot
@Nzall looks like a browser /PC issue to me
what browser?
@JourneymanGeek Chrome 76, can't replicate it in Firefox AFAIK
1:35 PM
@JourneymanGeek Heh :P
I can't repro on Chromium 75 here
can't repro in vivaldi
so more or less unlikely that its the webpage ;p
Q: What causes this weird vertical line glitch on this on website in Chrome 76?

NzallI came across the below glitch on https://www.troyhunt.com/, while randomly reading one of his articles: As you can see, a weird set of vertical black bars appears on his navigational menu when I hover over my browser tabs. This bug occurs regardless of window size, regardless of which page of...

2:08 PM
@Nzall have you got a plugin that renders a little preview of the tab you are hovering over?
@Burgi no
It also happens in Incognito mode
it only happens when you hover over the tabs, it looks like the tooltip drop shadow
@Burgi Yeah, but the weird thing is that the tooltips don't reach that far down, nor are they in the location you'd expect them
i agree that is weird
that's why i was asking if you had a plugin for previewing tabs
i wonder if troy's site is doing some funky JS surrounding tooltips
@Burgi If it was a plugin, it wouldn't be visible in Incognito mode
And if it was JS, I doubt it'd be affecting the tab tooltips
Caused by backdrop-filter: blur(5px); on the header. — Daniel B 30 mins ago
2:30 PM
it looks like that CSS is still experimental, chrome only started supporting it in this version
it is possible that the tooltips use the same styling
log a bug with chromium
3:01 PM
Turns out it's already known
3:21 PM
XD. SO DEFINITELY on topic for us
Its ok though, I had one question where the answer was "The company's server was down, you can set the application to offline mode tho"
2 hours later…
5:31 PM
I read that as $400
And was halfway to thrusting a wad of cash at Dell, Fry-style
Maybe I could sue Dell for $4000 for 'emotional distress' at no being able to afford that monitor
And use the proceeds to buy the monitor
brb, phoning Lionel Hutz
6:36 PM
> 64 bytes from icmp_seq=43794 ttl=64 time=0.330 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=43795 ttl=64 time=0.418 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=43796 ttl=64 time=0.326 ms
Prior to new switch?

> https://askubuntu.com/a/740883/18619
> 64 bytes from icmp_seq=43545 ttl=64 time=15.4 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=43546 ttl=64 time=0.540 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=43547 ttl=64 time=13.7 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=43548 ttl=64 time=0.520 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=43549 ttl=64 time=9.39 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=43550 ttl=64 time=0.531 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=43551 ttl=64 time=14.8 ms
Can you see the difference? XD
7:22 PM
probably the hamster living in the NIC is old and dying
2 hours later…
8:59 PM
Old switch yeah. I figured maybe the ram is, and it's losing Mac table...
Just need to borrow come good network cables from work, rewire some bits (some I can't get to unfortunately) and figure out why my desktop is at 100Mbit still
3 hours later…
11:59 PM
@tereško oled is pricy but the sensible would comparisons shop anything over 27" with TVs

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