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00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 23:00

12:37 AM
@barlop What are you imaging with, and how fast is the target drive?
@bwDraco target drive is Toshiba HDTB320EK3AA 2 TB Canvio Basics USB 3.0 Portable External Hard Drive
If it's Windows Image Backup, it might take a bit longer especially if there's lots of small files. If it's a dumb block-for-block copy, it'll probably be limited only by the speed of the destination drive.
imaging with macrium reflect running off a USB
no mac
why do you think mac?
Whoops, sorry about that.
I believe that's a file-based backup utility...
no it isn't
it's imaging
12:41 AM
Hmm. It does use NTFS shadow copies, but I'm not too familiar with how it reads the data from the disk. Open Task Manager to see what the bottleneck is? What version of Windows?
it might have a file and folder backup option but i've not run into / used that option
i'm running macrium off a USB WinPE made by macrium..
Well, that's interesting. So you're doing this offline?
yeah.. I guess I could do it from within the proper OS though
would then be from windows 7
I haven't done an offline backup in years. I've only really used Windows's built-in image backup feature.
I can run macrium from within win7
would task manager in windows 7 show me the bottleneck? how?
12:44 AM
@barlop EOL in less than three months.
@barlop It won't, you'll need to use Performance Monitor.
there is a performance tab in windows 7 task manager
@barlop It'll only show CPU and memory usage. It doesn't have the ability to monitor disk load the way the Windows 8 and Windows 10 Task Manager can.
I wouldn't really be able to help you find what the bottleneck is if you're in WinPE.
okay so if I put win10 on a hard drive and boot that, then plug two hard drives in, one source one destination... the source hard drive is an SSD and would need a SATA-USB3 adaptor(capable of 5GB/s), then run macrium, I should see the bottlenecks in task manager I suppose
You're probably limited by the destination media, which is an electeomechanical hard drive.
yeah i'm going to also try with 2 SSD drives to rule that out
and from win10 to see task manager give the data showing that it's the destination drive
12:49 AM
I'm pretty sure you're only able to about 60-80 MB/s that way, and probably less.
well 1.5 hours for 240GB is around 37.5MB/s if i recall the calculation.
so still slower than it should be
as destination drive should not be less than 60-80MB/s
@barlop Is there any other content on the drive? The beginning of the drive is faster than the end of the drive, and file fragmentation will not help, even though this is just sequential I/O.
the source drive is almost completely full
the source drive is SSD though
If it's an SSD, you're going to get consistent read performance at all times.
The destination drive is the bottleneck here. How full is the hard drive you're writing to?
lots of space
still dest is prob bottleneck
12:55 AM
Hmm. FWIW, I've seen imaging software not exactly read or write as quickly as the drive allows. A faster drive will help here nonetheless.
k, thanks
(e.g. smaller than ideal block sizes, not taking full advantage of write buffering to maximize data transfer speed, etc.)
the speed isn't clear from the item page on amazon amazon.co.uk/dp/B00KWHJVCY
data transfer rate- 5,120 MB per second <-- dunno what that's about!
ah this must be the problem Serial ATA-300
I'm pretty sure that's just the interface speed.
It's a 5400 RPM drive FWIW...
300Mb/s is 37.5MB/s
not sure where 5120MB/s comes into it!!
1:00 AM
No, that would be 3 Gbps, or ~280 MB/s after overhead
@barlop That's a mistake, and should be ignored.
5120MB/s is a mistake?
SATA Revision 2.0 has 3.0 Gb/s (300 MB/s)
From some research I'm doing, the drive should be able to do about 100-120 MB/s under ideal conditions.
so it being SATA II / SATA 300 shouldn't be a problem
a test from crystalmark has it doing 120MB/s read and same write
@barlop Yeah, it's a mistranslation of the 5 Gbps USB 3.0 interface speed.
a speed mentioned in a QnA said 80MB/s write
1:01 AM
Yeah, it's probably the software.
Are you compressing the image?
I'm sure macrium compresses the image , yes
@barlop In that case, the processor is the limiting factor, not the storage media.
oh wow
What processor?
core i3
1:03 AM
What processor model? If you can't get a specific model, what generation?
err core i5
not i3
hmm, not sure generation.. i'll see what wcpuid or software like that says
What does the Intel sticker look like? Is the an orange or silver silicon pattern on the top, in the middle, or what?
And is this a laptop or desktop?
intel core i5 3210M Ivy Bridge system is laptop.
Ivy Bridge is pretty old... that is not really going to help here.
system is blue with a streak through the middle
1:07 AM
@barlop Yup, that's the Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge Intel Core logo.
can you determine speed expected given old CPU like that?
How hot is the system running, and what's the fan noise?
That is a long way from today's processors...
If it's a newer (e.g. Skylake) processor, you could be looking at 30-50% faster, possibly even more.
Ah well. Keeping an old machine running as long as can, eh?
the fan always runs noisy even idling, cpu is about 50C
I tend to get used to an old thing
@barlop It's probably a single-threaded workload, so it won't make the processor run very hot, but you'll probably notice a fair amount of heat from the vent nonetheless.
If you're planning to upgrade, be sure to look for 10th Gen Intel Core or 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen. The latest Intel processors are miles away from these old chips; AMD's latest mobile processors are no slouch, either.
well i'll experiment with trying a spare SSD in place of the external hard drive, I reckon that may still improve speed a lot.
1:14 AM
I wouldn't recommend anything 7th gen Intel or earlier, and you might want to avoid even 8th gen processors because the 10th gen chips are in a totally different league.
For perspective, Ivy Bridge is 3rd gen.
How's the battery life?
I like a laptop that is fairly quiet, and that is very easy to open and that has a decent UEFI
I don't think the battery life is very good, maybe 2 hours.
@barlop Size or weight restrictions?
I like a good gap between the right shift and the up arrow
or at least not adjacent like no right shift to the left of the up arrow
right shift above up arrow is ok
Most laptops aren't designed for upgradability these days. A gaming laptop is more likely to meet your requirements, but I'm not sure you're using it for gaming.
not using a laptop for gaming
I don't want to spend much on a laptop though..
1:18 AM
Are you actually planning on upgrading now, getting a new machine within the next few months, or keeping your current machine running for longer than that?
I recently got an HP Probook for about £160 that's like $200
also an i5.. very easy to open!
I got two or three of them
@barlop Heh, that's a business laptop. Those tend to be easier to service.
yeah opening the thing easily is a major thing for me
@barlop What model or generation, or what does the Intel sticker look like?
same style sticker
also i5
1:21 AM
Hmm. That's not going to be any newer.
@barlop my work one is tool less
a little too much so, the bottom cover just slides out
It's sad that today's laptops are a lot harder to service than they used to.
At least battery life, both runtime on a charge and long-term service life, has improved dramatically, so you no longer have batteries failing anywhere near as soon as they used to.
are todays HP Business laptops also less servicable than an HP Probook?
I'll need to look into this...
Unfortunately, yes, unless you get a specialized high-performance model. The focus is all on thin and light these days.
FWIW, if you take good care of a battery (e.g. keep it between 20% and 80%, avoid extreme temperatures or prolonged operation with the battery full or empty), it can last you a very long time.
I'd say five years is doable with appropriate care.
It also helps that today's laptops sip power, and the latest generation of USB technology has enabled portable battery packs that can power laptops.
Even ThinkPads have gotten a lot harder to service than they used to be.
You're going to have to spend a substantial premium on something like the HP ZBook 15 to get something easy to service.
so if you were to estimate what kind of speed i'd get with the processor I have, but if I used two SSDs and no mechanical drive, what'd you estimate?
1:36 AM
@barlop Sata or NVMe? ;p
@JourneymanGeek Ivy Bridge predates NVMe.
It wasn't until the Haswell generation that NVMe started to become an option (mostly on desktops), and it wasn't widespread until Skylake.
source drive is SATA 3, Dest drive is SATA 3
source drive is from maybe 2014, dest drive is from 2019
@barlop Your processor is going to be the limiting factor on this sort of system configuration. It won't be unreasonably slow for everyday use, but newer systems will be significantly more responsive thanks to new technologies like Intel Speed Shift Technology, while also delivering substantially better battery life in far slimmer and lighter form factors.
It's easy to get used to carrying a 6+ lb laptop at first, but my current laptop is less than 3 lb and I'm not going back.
I don't know why laptops never got to the point of being standardized like desktops so you can build your own chunky laptop of whatever spec
easily upgradable
Because the modern smartphone can do the vast majority of what people do "in the field". Unless your system is intended for gaming or heavy-duty workstation applications, big and heavy is the exception, not the norm.
And even gaming laptops and mobile workstations have slimmed down dramatically in the last few years.
1:44 AM
even before the great slimming, i'm surprised there wasn't any standardization to make laptops as buildable as desktops
Just try using any laptop with an 8th gen or newer Intel Core processor (or a 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen Mobile processor) for a few days. The difference will be eye-opening.
for an easily upgradable laptop, you just need a decent way to attach screen and keyboard with a hinge and some standard batteries. And standard interface between motherboard and battery.
then you should be able to just stick the motherboard in there. And with some standardization on CPU placement near a fan vent.
Well, that's not the path manufacturers have chosen. Intel has led the push to thinner laptops and novel form factors and that's where we are now.
@barlop a lot of those are pretty standard
I know, it's sad, and I've had lots of trouble finding a readily-serviceable laptop that isn't something specialized like a gaming laptop.
1:48 AM
Most laptops use a standard sized/type of shell internally
eDP is a standard for display
Before that LVDS
FWIW... more often than not, modern high-performance SSDs are little more than small circuit boards 22x80mm in size. They're thin enough to fit in thin-and-light laptops, yet fast enough for high-end desktops.
@barlop actually the hard part is getting a standard physical form factor
presumably across generations
why should that be hard?
There's a few folks in china building upgrade kits for older thinkpads
@barlop then you're stuck to the decisions made then
and most of the design revolves around that
Lets say you have a MK1 open laptop chassis
you'd build a motherboard to fit, fit in a standard panel of N size, add a battery charge controller and battery
Since we live in modern times (yay!) a lot of the interfaces can be standard
Battery management through I2C, video connected or eDP, USB PD for charging...
But what if say, you speced 3 USB A ports and 2 USB C ports and you realise the customer wants more USB C ports
or you need a bigger monitor
and thermal design
I wouldn't mine a Mini-ITX computer but with an empty hinge laptop screen and keyboard plugged in
1:58 AM
Also, how would you deal with GPUs? MXM is the 'standard' only its not
@barlop ever seen the Novena?
hadn't seen that.. not sure though 'cos I might want some flexibility with fans e.g fanless
Actually the fact that its an odd ARM proc aside
How hard would it be to hook up any laptop to a mini ITX and just use the laptop's keyboard and display?
and need some UPS that isn't too big.. to use with the mini ITX
hmm. Just use ethernet and RDP ;p
that's not very servicable
2:03 AM
a gutted laptop?
Ok, two options.
or a laptop where the insides are just ignored/bypassed!
gutting a laptop is hassle and ugly.
You basically need a USB breakout for the keyboard (which might be possible) and an adaptor to directly attach the screen to a video out and power
non trivial ;p
Speaking of which... my next laptop is likely to be a fair bit bigger and heavier than my current HP ENVY x360 13. But that's probably at least two years away ;p
2:05 AM
You might as well buy a pen tablet (a 10 inch one) and power it off the mini ITX
RDP doesn't seem good, i'm not sure one could watch video over RDP
(2018 model, has a first-gen Ryzen Mobile processor - powerful, but inefficient by today's standards)
I can test ;p
I don't know about pen tablets
do they work like that.. so you can use them as a console - screen and keyboard, for any computer?
i'm not talking about RDP..
RDP won't let you see the UEFI and probably won't be good for watching video
Sorry, kinda misread that.
2:07 AM
Options for this are pretty limited. You're looking at a device with separate compute and display halves...
Anyhoo, it's getting late here. Gotta go to bed ;p
ah lol. We're talking about my dream device
A low cost IPMI - style device
I want modularity myself but size and weight is a major limiting factor. I spend over two hours on public transport every single workday.
2:21 AM
2 hours later…
4:46 AM
@barlop accidentally viewed a video over RDP .... over the internet,,,, from home to here. No luck for the UEFI stuff thoug
it will work
4:59 AM
buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/… this was a pretty interesting read. Even consdering the source
1 hour later…
6:03 AM
, ,\
uhik gf jhk tghn tyj l.
@MichaelFrank catlike typing detected 🐈
6:50 AM
@JourneymanGeek Hmm?
@bertieb I'm running on not enough sleep
I'm Mauricing
@JourneymanGeek Oh :(
That was me yesterday
Not fun
Dog woke me up at 4 am past few days
had to poo
he can sleep all day
I can't
The human curse
I, ah, managed to rest my eyes yesterday while they were figuring out stuff
(Jury duty)
And they eventually decided we weren't needed yesterday
We'll see today
I don't know how people don't instantly fall asleep when they get home from work when that tired
I'm running on caffeine
6:55 AM
That sometimes works
Other times it's "tired, but faster"
I think my current state is autopilot
Ah, not fun :-\
Hope you're able to get some restful sleep soon!
7:50 AM
porn ban gone, wooo
Now just to get rid of brexit
guys help, my brain no worky
8:17 AM
@djsmiley2k my phone no worky
I think 3 is goosed
Even their service status page is down
I'm on first bus WiFi
I thought it was my phone
buses have wifi?
Last night it was saying my sim wasn't provisioned
Now it's slightly better- emergency calls only
Which is probably the other networks providing emergency services access
But it also implies that 3 haven't fixed the issue in around eight or nine hours
At this rate they will be demoted to 2
8:21 AM
@Burgi can't see whatever that image is, imgur is blocked on First WiFi
there aRe 1300 people trying to access the service status page
never seen a queue for a website before
Oh man
That's hilarious
Actually laughed on the bus like a weirdo
Oh well, now that someone's turned up to work and had their cup of tea it might be sorted
I blame brexit
> You have earned £ 2.05.
Your balance is now £ 9.18!
@bertieb its a smart kettle
its been hacked by the chinese
@Burgi lol wtf
that's gotta be a joke
how does that even work
a status page should be mostly static, no?
8:37 AM
why am i being moaned at about a clear desk
@bertieb lol wtf, just got 62p for watching a meditation video
@Bob apparently not
@Burgi :o
They fixed it?
Someone must've turned it off and on again
I found out as I got a phone call, which startled me as I thought I had no service
its returning a 503 now
Was doing internal server error earlier
Hey ho
Signal's signal
That said, some stuff ain't loading so I dunno
1 hour later…
9:53 AM
Weird that while you guys been reporting that
I'm seeing messages about EE's private customer networks being down
which is 'resolved' as of 10:40am
Almost like 3's network, is just infact EE's.
i thought 3 used O2's network
if only TOWMN was here to correct us
3 has their own network iirc
As do O2, EE and Vodafone
I thought O2 and EE have an agreement but need to look that up
T mobile and uhhh, orange merged to make EE?
Maybe that's what I was thinking of
In other phone news, apparently any fingerprint can unlock the S10
Cc @bwDraco
10:27 AM
o_O wtf is happening there that 1. a software fix can be done, 2. it fails open?
Bad juju
I wonder if improper installation of the screen protector occurred or if some steps are left out (has the screen protector been altered in any way?)
But yeah, that's probably software-fixable.
Or... unreliable source (The Sun)?
I'm pretty sure a security researcher would be able to replicate this if this is real, and I haven't seen any other response yet about this issue.
"gel screen protector" is suspect because it might be retaining a registered fingerprint, which is a known vulnerability.
10:57 AM
If there is a problem, it probably is fixable in software.
11:35 AM
I miss the Lenovo UltraBay.
(a feature most commonly associated with older ThinkPads; was also implemented in a different form on some early Lenovo Y-series gaming laptops)
The Y500 and kin had an UltraBay which allowed for such things as an additional cooling fan, additional storage, or even an additional graphics card.
1 hour later…
12:44 PM
@JourneymanGeek @JourneymanGeek windows remote desktop? one issue i have with windows remote desktop is if a computer is overloaded with stuff on it then it could crash when logging off and on.. whereas something like VNC would be far less invasive, but VNC would be no good for viewing a video
@barlop well the box I use for it is pretty solid
At work right now, can't chat for too long.
@JourneymanGeek Have you managed to get any rest yet?
I'm working through a pot of tea having been told I'm not needed today :)
These days, the focus is on external docking and expansion via USB-C and Thunderbolt. Internal expansion cards and bays are no longer common on laptops.
@bertieb no
12:56 PM
Sadface :(
1:31 PM
Ok. I'm home, I'm eating...
Should be in bed in 15
1:43 PM
2:01 PM
@bwDraco do you know any really quiet fanless laptop, but that can take a docking station?
Does it actually need to be fanless? It's best to start by looking for a system with Thunderbolt 3.
fanless is ideal.. 'cos then I know it's super quiet even when I sleep I won't hear it, and I have very sensitive hearing
I'm going to try to find a system equipped with something like the new Core i7-1060G7...
Hmm. 10th Gen Intel Core i7 chips seem to be in very short supply. I can find some 10th Gen i3 and i5 systems...
(seems like Intel's 10nm process is still not in that great a shape)
thanks.. i'm totally out of touch with what is current
things is I have a tight budget on a laptop like within £400/$400
Maybe I will need something a bit old
A good fanless system is virtually impossible to find within this price range. You're going to be limited to slow Atom-type processors.
(including Celeron and Pentium Silver)
(with a small number of Pentium Gold processors, but even those aren't particularly fast)
2:13 PM
maybe I should look for a portable screen like amazon.co.uk/AILRINNI-Portable-Monitor-Built-USB-Powered/dp/… Together with a keyboard with integrated touch pad
And then plug it into a small form factor computer
I kinda think you'll want to wait a bit right now, since you already have something to work with, even if very old.
or just.... android tablet + vnc to PC in another room.
Intel's 10th Gen Core processors are still pretty new and your choices are limited.
10th-gen i7's are almost impossible to find right now.
A small form factor computer with UPS.. connected to a screen like I linked to, and keyboard with integrated touchpad would work well.. and be super uprgadable
Is this something you'll carry, or keep at home?
2:15 PM
maybe i'd carry it sometimes. I don't mind the weight , it wouldn't be an insane weight
Do you expect to use it in the field?
in the library maybe
and cafes
You're ultimately going to want a laptop. Perhaps this can wait a bit? A $400 budget won't get you much...
I prefer this as it's very upgradable
@bwDraco They're not hard to find at all.
You're just not going to find them in anywhere near that price range.
2:19 PM
Yeah, Intel holds the Core brand to be sacred.
(business protip: your brand is your most valuable asset and anything devaluing it will seriously damage your bottom line; countless businesses have failed because they've lost their brand's equity, regardless of the merits of the products or services produced under them)
not quite true
i think you are equating brand to reputation
they are similar but not the same
2:35 PM
@barlop: Did some digging... perhaps you might want look at the ThinkPad E490?
The whole bottom cover comes off like most newer laptops, but there's definitely room to upgrade.
Or the E490s, which is thinner but loses the SATA slot? (disassembly on Reddit)
(doesn't have Thunderbolt, sadly)
3:41 PM
Ryland Goldstein on October 17, 2019

This is the first in an ongoing series from developers expressing their opinions on various topics in the software engineering and computer science world. The opinions expressed here are solely those of the author. If you disagree, drop a comment and let us know your take—respectfully, of course.

I suspect that a lot of people will interpret this article as “gatekeeping.”  Although I can understand that perspective, I’ve strived to provide an honest outlook that reflects my experience over the last few years (mostly startups). I also want to explicitly disclaim that I will be focusing on f …

4:34 PM
@bertieb 10,000 ish tracks
not that much really.
why does backspace suddenly not work in beets
1 hour later…
5:35 PM
Seems like a lot :P
Maybe my tastes are just limited?
5:47 PM
@bwDraco thanks I think in terms of laptops I might take your earlier suggestion and wait a bit
6:28 PM
my tastes are rather.... ranged. yes
6:39 PM
hmmm, i broke beets? D:
FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: b'/home/tim/media/sorted_music/Athlete/Tourist/01 Tourist (radio edit).mp3'
> FileNotFoundError
7:07 PM
@djsmiley2k Mate.... Picard is the only music organiser you should ever use.
7:29 PM
@bertieb you ever had beets just kinda stop listening to inputs?
@djsmiley2k Nope
maybe too manyu files derp it :/
Seems unlikely
But possible
something's causing it to derp and I'm unsure what
> 2004, BE, Prometheus Records, XPCD 154, expanded edition)
# selection (default 1), Skip, Use as-is, as Tracks, Group albums,
Enter search, enter Id, aBort? s^C^C
I hit enter after s
Debug mode / verbose?
Ask in #beets ?
7:34 PM
there's a debug mode :O
> 4557 tim 20 0 650636 36548 16088 R 100.0 0.4 16143:51 xfdesktop
7:46 PM
k, that's now dead.
Hmmm when I do a import, is it also going to load the data for the existing library too, righooooot
adding -v has helped too, i can see it doing 'stuff now.
and the 374 album arts can get lost
8:24 PM
hmmmm wtf
now it's not asking anything o_O
@bertieb i think it's acoustid everything
Oh now I see
because it was -v, it wasn't showing me the interactive output hahaha
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