@Bob Well, basic desktop and web tasks maybe, 16GB RAM and a only 500GB total storage (unless he has old HDDs lying around?) isn't particularly capable in this day and age... not when Windows wants to eat the better part of 100GB all by itself

Hah. That's my daily driver/gaming rig

And I have been using the stock cooler on it for 5 or so years

16 GB RAM is fine for everyday use and most games. The 500 GB SSD is a potential limiting factor, though, with games routinely breaking 50 GB these days.

If the system had 8 GB of RAM, then I'd suggest adding more, but given the current memory pricing, I wouldn't be surprised if one wanted to cut back.

I mean, 32 GB of RAM costed $300 when I built my desktop in October last year, and now costs $360.

@JourneymanGeek I've got a low profile stock cooler on my 84W Haswell-DT server and it regularly runs at over 70c at full load, but tbh that's perfectly fine. You really don't need much cooling but some people panic anytime they see temperatures of 60c+.

I went with 32 GB because my retired gaming laptop had 24 GB and there were a handful of situations (primarily involving workstation applications) where I might run out of memory. (My photo editing app eats memory for breakfast.)

I wouldn't be worried unless temperatures exceeded 75 °C under normal operating conditions. On this desktop, the liquid cooler keeps the processor well inside of 60 °C the vast majority of the time.

Processors will happily run at 95'c for years on end, it's not ideal because of the potential for thermal throttling, but there's close to no chance of it dying from temps alone during its warranty period. Only reason you'd get anything more than the stock cooler is a) More than mild overclocking and/or b) reduced noise. Or the c) odd occasion when it doesn't come with a stock cooler.

Heck, my old laptop's GPU routinely ran at 90-92 °C.

If it's a laptop, high temperatures are expected due to the constrained cooling.

The 32GB RAM I have in my laptop might be a bit excessive for average people but I find 16GB far too restrictive (even for a VM). That may be because I'm just used to not having to think about memory usage at all for the past few years. With 16-24GB I used to frequently have to react to running out of RAM and/or pagefile thrashing while on 32GB the thought literally never crosses my mind. I just do whatever whenever and never have to think about RAM.

IINM Ryzen desktop TJunctionMax is 95 °C, and I don't recall the chip ever going past 80 °C even when highly overclocked.

16 GB is good enough for gaming these days, unless you're going to run demanding games and workstation applications (or lots of browser tabs) at the same time.

Similarly having an NVMe SSD has a similar effect on disk performance, i.e. you basically don't think about it anymore except in extreme situations because everything's so fast it no longer matters.

If you're only doing light (eSports/casual) gaming, 8 GB will do just fine, though there may be a slight improvement in performance if you get 16 GB.

@RegularGDPR Exactly.

Since Dell issued that firmware update to stop my SSD suddenly turning itself off when it got toasty even this crappy entry-level Toshiba drive has been performing satisfactorily.

Still wouldn't mind a couple of Samsung 2TB 960's though... not that an unemployed homeless sod can afford that sorta shit

@RegularGDPR yea, that's pretty much all K-series

if it came with stock I wouldn't have even bothered suggesting the 212 for him

@Bob Is it now? The 6700K I had was the first they did it on, I thought it was an aberration rather than the new norm. The 4xxxK's came with stock coolers IIRC

I ran stock with my 2600 for 5 years, no problems apart from noise

(noise being why I went U14S this time around... quiet built and all)

@RegularGDPR Yea everything since Skylake

@Bob I spent like £400 on a custom watercooling loop and an extra £100 on insulating materials because I had an extreme noise dampening phase... then stopped caring.

Yeah, @Bob's right. It was since Skylake. Intel penny-pinching as usual.

Because they're obsessed about margins.

It's not like I even cared about the noise, I just wanted to make it as quiet as I could to see how quiet I could make it.

@bwDraco Somehow I don't think dropping a cooler that probably cost them less than $5 is penny-pinching

How is it less than $5 BOM?

A 95W processor does need a reasonably-sized heatsink and fan.

Ultimately I got it so quiet that the "Silent Pro" PSU fan was the noisiest thing in the system, so I replaced it with a basically passive PSU. Then it became so quiet my tinnitus was louder.

(And that was before I started doing drugs that make my tinnitus like 10x louder when I'm on them)

:<

I'd kinda agree with you, though. Most enthusiasts will not use a cooler with such limited capacity and is noisy, and Intel doesn't want to ship a higher-quality HSF, even when it adds value to the product. You only need to look at AMD and their Wraith coolers to see how that tends to steer the value equation in their favor.

Like I said, margins.

@Bob Tbh, everything seems louder on this stuff, so it's probably just an effect of general audio sensory/processing amplification.

I never actually got round to using any of the noise dampening materials outside the case, they're still sitting rolled up in storage.

@bwDraco When you can buy the part, new, for $8.50, I kinda assume it cost less than that to manufacture. amazon.com/Intel-E97379-001-Connector-Aluminum-Heatsink/dp/…

Huh.

woooow

Also TIL Intel actually came out with a new HSF in the Skylake gen (howtogeek.com/320705/…)

> the heatsink is three to four times bigger, creating a massively expanded cooling surface area. The fan itself seems to be the same size, but it’s capable of reaching a much higher RPM under load ... The thermal compound pre-applied to the cooler is also different, being much more runny and spreadable than the type on the smaller cooler.

@Bob Buuut what if they're deliberately selling them at a loss in order to gain market share? /s

People don't normally see the stock cooler as a value-add, but as a basic solution which will provide adequate cooling under all normal operating conditions (overclocking excepted).

TBH I never really designed my desktop to be silent. I wanted it to be reasonably quiet, of course, but airflow mattered more.

IIRC the cooler (officially "thermal solution") Intel currently supplies with their processors very quickly gets overwhelmed when a 6C Coffee Lake processor is subjected to a full load.

@bwDraco Really? The TS15A?

@Bob If Skylake+ runs as hot as they say in that article, they pretty much had to... Haswell-DT chips would never get near 100'c at full load even with the old low-profile (half-height) cooler.

Granted this was an E3 Xeon with no iGPU but the iGPU version only added a measly 5% onto the TDP, so wouldn't come close to making it hit 100c with a cooler twice the height.

@Bob Mentioned on Matrix chat: tomshardware.com/reviews/…

Then again there's all the Intel TIM/heatspreader shenanigans that I haven't been keeping up with.

FWIW AMD does use TIM under the IHS to reduce cost on their Raven Ridge parts but it's not the cheap stuff Intel uses.

> You see, Intel's thermal design power specification applies to the CPU's base frequency. But its processors exceed that rating when they jump to higher Turbo Boost bins. We found that the Core i7-8700 can overwhelm Intel's bundled heat sink and fan during certain heavily-threaded workloads, negatively affecting performance.

@bwDraco Huh. That looks an awful lot like the smaller cooler.

I was expecting the much beefier TS15A with Kaby Lake.

Blech.

The TS15A is the Intel standard aftermarket cooler. It uses a vapor chamber "heat column" surrounded by metal fins and topped with a fan.

I was under the impression that they shipped it stock with the higher-TDP CPUs

They really should :\

That said, I'd much rather tower coolers these days just because they're easier to clean

The i7-8700 is nominally 65W, and I suppose it hits ~95W when boosting.

> According to our measurements, Core i7-8700 peaks at up to 126W during taxing all-core workloads.

Wat.

Does "taxing" include AVX?

Well that explains why a 65W TDP CPU manages to hit 100c with a cooler that keeps an older 80W one below 80'c.

Yeah. Intel's TDP just does not reflect the processor's actual cooling requirements for full performance even without overclocking.

hah

Basically, by cheating.

I am sure I have one of those copper cores/slugs lying around ._.

> "You can shoot for 7.6 seconds at full resolution with the 288GB RAM option

I think the all-aluminium ones must be derated, apparently they're specced for 73W. The one I had gets served up with 84W server processors.

holy wtf

288 GB of RAM in a camera o_O

> 100,000 FPS

@Bob Probably a $10,000+ camera

This is an industrial camera.

I wonder how physically big that camera is

and how much cooling it needs

Consumer cameras typically top out at 120 fps or 240 fps these days.

then again apparently you can get 64 GB sticks of DDR4

@Bob Look at the Vision Research Phantom cameras. They're marketed mainly for industrial and scientific applications, but there are models designed for cinema applications.

@bwDraco Meanwhile, phones do 960 FPS :P

True, true.

That said I suspect the higher-FPS is easier on the (physically) smaller sensors

@Bob oh that's why they're so expensive. ;p

> The new v2511 will be available in August, and configurations will start at $150,000

To be fair, AMD's newest processors (second-generation Ryzen) do boost fairly aggressively, but they've designed it so that the processor's clocks scale with cooling capacity. This is more like NVIDIA's GPU Boost 3.0 on Pascal chips, which boosts beyond the published boost speed, subject to available power and cooling capacity (including current chip temperature).

Also it sounds like a vacuum cleaner.

@RegularGDPR Like I said, industrial camera.

Lower res, or you reduce colour depth or...

@bwDraco I mean, all modern CPUs scale clocks with cooling capacity.

Does that answer your question?

The alternative is a hard power cutoff.

@RegularGDPR Erm... it might answer it when I can watch the video

@Bob Not quite - what I've previously seen is full boost with OEM-configured limits unless the thermal limits are reached.

@Bob Oh. He explicitly shows the camera and demonstrates the noise, describing it as "loud as heck".

They used sub-ambient, chilled liquid cooling to achieve these temperatures.

It's not that big, a little larger than a SFF mITX PC

@Bob Ffs why doesn't Chrome have this

Ffs why do I still use Chrome

Haha later in the video they pour water into the presenter's eyes and film that in high framerate to compare it to the speed of glass cracking

@RegularGDPR Huh. It doesn't?

@Bob I whinge about it all the time!

digitaltrends.com/mobile/…

> Google unfortunately shut down the Send to Mobile Chrome extension a few years ago, and there’s no native support to send a single page across platforms

fail

I can pull tabs (with full open tabs, not just recents) or push tabs (with send to device)... both work beautifully.

sigh

The Python virtualenv generated by the Sync server had to be deleted and regenerated again during a Sync server update.

@Bob I've been saying for several years I want to switch back to Firefox. And not doing it

Still having to switch firmware in order to switch SIM and retain VoLTE on Android... grr.

Sometimes, when I update the Firefox Sync server, the Python dependencies get updated, and the existing Python virtualenv no longer works. Fortunately, it's automatically regenerated during an update of the server, so I can just delete the old virtualenv and it'll create a new one with the latest packages.

@bwDraco huh? what?

I don't think I'm even using virtualenv ... I think

just gotta do a make build/test after a pull and it's all good

How many Android versions will it be before Google integrates cross-compatible native VoLTE into base Android like Apple did with iOS years ago?

@Bob The make operation generates a new virtualenv if one doesn't exist. Deleting the existing virtualenv often fixes Python errors after updates, without removing the configuration or any data already stored on the server.

*shrug* haven't had any issues

then again I have rolling DB backups and my upgrade is pretty much merge config, make, restart service, done

oh, I did have that sync isse a few updates back but they helped track down the issue pretty quick on IRC (and it got patched)

Lol, they're happy integrating Video over LTE calls into the Android dialler...

@RegularGDPR there's an anrdoid dialer?

it's not been abandoned in favour of a google dialer only available via gapps?

@Bob I assume so...

> Google has announced this week that Duo, their video calling application, will get a deeper integration into their native dialer for Android phones

hackernoon.com/…

Actually, yes, and it integrates with carrier ViLTE.

@RegularGDPR that sounds suspiciously like "a google dialer only available via gapps"

much like how they killed the stock music player

and how they killed the stock messaging app

and how they killed the stock ... I could go on

lol

...email app.

(LineageOS ships with its own dialer, messaging app, email app, music player, photo viewer, and other features that are no longer part of AOSP.)

though given google's track record with messaging apps, they'll abandon this integration next year, kill off duo a year later, and introduce another 3 messaging apps by 2022

I wonder what happened with allo

@Bob moz-services-docs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/howtos/…

It uses virtualenv, and I've basically rolled the update operation listed in that article into a script which does the whole thing with one command.

My setup uses Apache with mod_wsgi.

root@firefox:~# systemctl cat ffsync.service
# /etc/systemd/system/ffsync.service
[Unit]
Description=Firefox Sync Server

[Service]
Type=forking
PIDFile=/root/syncserver/ffsync.pid
ExecStart=/root/syncserver/local/bin/gunicorn --paste ./syncserver.ini --daemon
WorkingDirectory=/root/syncserver

[Install]
WantedBy=multi-user.target

I should probably add a nginx dependency to that

If the Sync server breaks and the server logs indicate a Python error... I delete the whole local directory and run the update script again.

root@firefox:~# systemctl cat ffsync-backup.service
# /etc/systemd/system/ffsync-backup.service
[Unit]
Description=Backup ffsync database
OnFailure=status-email-user@%n.service
StartLimitIntervalSec=3hour
StartLimitBurst=5

[Service]
Type=simple
ExecStart=/root/backup.sh
WorkingDirectory=/root
Restart=on-failure
RestartSec=30min

root@firefox:~# systemctl cat ffsync-backup.timer
# /etc/systemd/system/ffsync-backup.timer
[Unit]
Description=Backup ffsync database weekly

[Timer]
OnCalendar=weekly

root@firefox:~# cat backup.sh
#!/bin/sh

GIT_SSH="/root/ssh-batchmode" git -C /root/rclone-config pull || exit $?

sqlite3 /root/syncserver.db .dump | xz > /root/syncserver.sql.xz || exit $?

rclone --config=/root/rclone-config/.rclone.conf copy /root/syncserver.sql.xz b2:vulpin-backup/ffsync/ || exit $?

:D

Hm. Is @JourneymanGeek around?

Not really. Out helping mom

@JourneymanGeek Oh. I was wondering if you could help purge a message.

Maybe later :P

Just finished dinner. Can I help?

See, this is why I need to learn container technologies and (eventually) get my own dedicated server.

@BenN Erm. If you could purge chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/45661773#45661773 (preferably including history, though just deletion is probably fine) that'd be great :)

@bwDraco apt install snapd; snap install lxd; lxd init; lxc launch images:debian/stretch foo; lxc exec foo bash

Congrats! You've learned containers!

@Bob 410 Gone

@BenN Thanks

@BenN lol

rofl

Hi, I'd like to ask for some help, and hope its on topic for this chatroom

If I got a mobile data pack that won't work on my phone, but works if I hotspot it to my laptop, what does that mean?

I heard that APN is what gives mobiles internet, so could it mean the APN is wrong on my phone?

@PrittBalagopal that's fishy

and if APN is wong, it wouldn't work at all.

Sounds like the phone to me

And unless you're on a slightly dodgy MVNO you wouldn't need to set the APN at all anyway

I think a lot of us can relate to this ;)

LOL

Thanks Journeyman, and indeed it's very fishy

I'm practically clueless

@JourneymanGeek Negotiating TLS cipher suites is probably easier. SSL on the other hand (before versions <3.0 were deprecated) was as confusing as illustrated.

@PrittBalagopal sadly I can't tell you what it is, only what it isn't

(my other line needs manual APN setting ;) )

@JourneymanGeek Not true. Depends on the phone and operator.

so it won't even connect

There's an android setting flag that operators can enable to force the use of a different APN for hotspot and tethering functionality. Both the setting, and the hotspot APN are usually hidden.

@RegularGDPR Feel free to correct, this is pretty close to your hobby, and you've probably forgotten more than I know about phones ;)

I believe iOS also has similar functionality, which is harder to override. Possibly impossible on certain US operator specific models, or at least it used to be.

(There are also another set of hidden APN settings for VoLTE, and less hidden APN settings for MMS. All in all a modern handset may be connected to 4 or 5 different APNs simultaneously)

Using a different APN for tethering is how some operators differentiate and/or charge extra for and/or block tethering on certain plans.

Thank you nontheless @JourneymanGeek now I can stop looking about APNs.

And to add some further information, when I attempt to open websites with my data, it times out.

Removing the additional tethering APN is how I manage to use up to 1TB a month tethered as my main home broadband on a package with a no-tethering policy (and previously a 30GB tethering limit policy).

@PrittBalagopal Firstly, type of phone would be useful, and also make sure you try a non-SSL website. Also try your operator's internal portal. And also what does the data indicator in the status bar say?

@RegularGDPR awesome, I would've used that back in the old days before I got fiber

What is an SSL? Sorry I am quite noobish at this

Could you suggest a non-SSL website please?

My phone is a Lenovo K6 Power.

My internet bar would say 4G R

Err... actually having trouble finding a non-HTTPS website now...

@PrittBalagopal R = roaming. There are often data restrictions while roaming.

Oh hey wsusoffline.net is non-HTTPS

Literally every other tab I have open is HTTPS :-o

Strangely, hotspotting this data to my laptop works perfectly tho

Infact, works on all PCs I tried, and never on any mobile

(This is also why operators gave up on using transparent proxies and/or DPI for tethering detection and built in a hidden APN instead)

@PrittBalagopal Wait, it works when you connect a PC to the phone via hotspot but not when you connect another phone to the phone via hotspot?

@RegularGDPR neverssl.com

@allquixotic Hah, I tried googling something like that, but just found a bunch of results about fixing non-working SSL.

Exactly @RegularGDPR

Mind you my own website is non-SSL. I've not configured or implemented any form of security on any of my domains.

I tried wsusoffline, the bar refused to fill up completely

And after turning off the data, a weak loaded page popped up

With very little formatting

Now that's just weird. Do any other apps work (Gmail, app store, etc?)

Sounds like possible misconfigured MTU. Which I've never heard of or seen on a mobile phone.

Whatsapp works I know that for sure.

Gmail and Play store don't

@PrittBalagopal Yknow what? Dumb test. Try switch it to 3G.

3G?

3G.

Yknow, the thing that we had before 4G.

How do I do that? It automatically gives me 4G

Should I change the preferred network type?

Yes

Okay I did it and still none of the https sites work

new.lupinenet.com

non tls

;)

That wsuoffline gives me proxy failed

hm

is there a proxy set up on the phone?

Try my personal website at fierydragonlord.com.

:-o

For IPv6 only, try ipv6.fierydragonlord.com.

I'm not sure

I dont know what a proxy is either

Maybe a proxy in the APN or maybe a transparent proxy. Not sure why other phones would obey the APN proxy though

In Soviet Russia, your shoulder looks over you

Hey, I have solved my issue

I changed an APN to another value that was there, and this gives me my connection

Thanks @RegularGDPR and @JourneymanGeek for all your help :)

quack :)

Lol

Physics home server to be set up at rad.blue soon

@JourneymanGeek you're a duck now

s/physics/physical/

Stupid phone keyboard

It's we're bragging about our websites... Talk About IT is on a Digital Ocean droplet now

lol

I literally linked a webpage that says "this is a test" ;)

Isn't that the best type of page?

@CanadianLuke The Apache default "It works!" page is better

Also is-scotland-an-independent-country-yet.uk

I like that :)

@RegularGDPR I use that and the TLS equivilent's config page as a sort of template for new site generations, and for dumping stuff in

|￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣|
|   I did linux once.  |
|      I was young     |
|  I wanted to be cool |
|＿＿＿＿＿＿＿___＿＿＿＿|
              (\__/)  ||
              (•ㅅ•)  ||
              / 　 づ

> there is a virus in your BIOS

uhhh w0t m8

Isn't that like super rare?

@rahuldottech pretty rare, yeah -- not because it's all that hard to write to the BIOS; it's actually easy unless you turn on the BIOS write protect switch in the BIOS itself. It's rare because you have to basically take a working firmware that's compatible with the user's hardware and modify it to be malicious without bricking the computer

just writing random bare metal instructions into a firmware file isn't going to be exactly portable; it'll work for a few systems but anything with a different motherboard than the one targeted with the original firmware won't work

And doesn't it need admin permissions?

@bwDraco well, yeah, it would need to elevate through UAC, but that isn't exactly a showstopper since most people habitually click yes

@allquixotic Do they really?

I suppose they do

Hmmmmm

IIRC most Windows-based BIOS flashing programs either use programming registers on the CPU or load a custom kernel module to do the magic -- either way it's going to need to run at a very high level of trust, but it's easy to get that

the far more difficult problem if you're a wanna-be BIOS-corrupter is finding a suitable firmware that's actually compatible with the user's hardware, and will allow the system to basically function (to boot into the OS, get on the Internet, etc. - because what use is a hacked computer that can't get on the Internet?)

you could probably target Z77, Z87, Z97, Z107, etc. and cover a huge range of desktops, but laptops would have to be targeted specially and many are snowflakey enough that you'd need custom firmware for different implementations of the same basic chipset

!!s/Z107/Z170/

@allquixotic Basically only viable if you have a particular target in mind. And even then, there's gotta be easier ways then BIOS hijacking

@bwDraco That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.

thanks

@bwDraco you could probably target Z77, Z87, Z97, Z170, etc. and cover a huge range of desktops, but laptops would have to be targeted specially and many are snowflakey enough that you'd need custom firmware for different implementations of the same basic chipset (source)

I use PortableApps even from disk on my home PC because it's amazing how well their auto-updater-thingy works for legit all apps

@rahuldottech well, a particular target, or if you have a room full of 200 low-level BIOS developers who you've kidnapped from their homes, and force them all to hack the firmware they're particularly familiar with from their work at their company, you could probably do it to just about every common computer out there

not saying that the leader of the CCCP might ever do a thing like that or anything, but stranger things have happened

or the leader of the USSR2, for that matter

> A hand drawn dick pick that’s just average is called a cock-a-doodle-do.

most BIOSes are written in China, so yeah... if Xi wanted a hacked firmware for every firmware out there, he could get one. threaten the lives of their family members if they refuse to do it.

@allquixotic True

It's actually really freaky how the Chinese government works, but how the most of the Chinese population is happy with their lives.

Most of the not-super-educated people, that is

I like SerpentZA's videos on China on Youtube; he's openly critical as well as complimentary when it makes sense -- he gives his honest take on Chinese society as someone who's lived there for many years

if there's a good thing, he points it out; if something sucks, he points that out too... and doesn't mince words about what's really ugly or really great about their society

@allquixotic I've seen one or two. They were nice.

the biggest problem I'm seeing in the world today is the overall trend towards authoritarianism... China is closer to a totalitarian state than a socialist one; Russia and the US are closer to a totalitarian state than a democratic one... all the superpowers have suddenly decided that the Hitler model of government is the best one

@allquixotic Yeah. Freaky

@allquixotic cause people with power want to consolidate power

Consolidation with centralization, AM I RITE??

hmm

Its harder to dipose a despot.

One wrong vote and you're stuck with ... well a suboptimal ruler in a democracy

and the moment you dipose one, basically every time someone with enough guns is unhappy it keeps happening

See thailand

With somewhere like the former USSR or China, an effective government is about broader machinary over personalities anyway

The fun part is when you have a democracy that's basically a one party state in practice

@JourneymanGeek Till very recently, I never really knew about the India "right"-wing. I mean, I never thought India was divided like that. Man, was I wrong

@rahuldottech eh, RSS et al?

@JourneymanGeek not sure about the political figures, but I've only been exposed to that school of thought on r/india

@rahuldottech india's a political mess ;)

Man, is it weird.

I mean since independance, one would think we'd get over caste politics right?

@JourneymanGeek I don't know, man. Would it kill the parties to work for the people?

@rahuldottech yes?...? ;p

Cause no one's in politics for the people

they're in it for the power and money

No matter what BJP does, good or bad, INC will oppose it. Or the other way around.

@rahuldottech yup

And then AAP comes in and opposes both of them and ARGH

I don't even know what AAP stands for

they basically seem to have tried to co-opt ghandian imagery

@JourneymanGeek Aam Admi Party

but

erm

They're in power in Delhi

Gandi was a bit of a fraud

Really good at PR but...

He was a bit of an oddball, and primarily effective as a figurehead

to the point where Nehru's daughter just happened to marry a guy with the same lastname to co-opt that goodwill.

When AAP came in, they promised to, as you say, be there "for the people". But what all parties basically do is only work the minimum for their favored demographic to get the votes.

@JourneymanGeek It's weird, man.

Ahh politics ;)

and its not going to get better until Indians learn the right lessons from people ;)

@JourneymanGeek The sad part is, because of the whole system, those who do want to do good will stay away from politics because they don't want to get into the drama

Yup

That's true of politics in many places

Hell, I'd consider getting into politics, but seeing how dirty and messed up all of it is, no way.

Its too hard to make a difference

hah.

I nearly did ;)

I mean, look at the whole reservation thing. It was supposed to bring disadvantageous communities at par with the rest. Instead, we have people fighting to be classified as backward classes, and the rest hating on them, and people who don't need one getting an unfair advantage.

da

and here's the problem with the reservation system

the best get in unreserved. The ones who can't get in through reservations...

Abolish it, and the whole country will erupt in riots. Don't, and everyone who doesn't get the advantage will be pissed.

higher caste folks who can't get in, because of higher standards for them... leave

so brain drain

@rahuldottech would it?

Trick is really to take advantage if folks impulses

start institutions on pure meritocracy. Take the best....

eventually expand it, and everyone else has to do the same to compete

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, but I don't see how it can be done now.

hmm

fairly easily ;)

Just need a single state to go "we'll take folks who score more than foo, no matter what, with reservations from every other state"

steal their best.

Singapore kinda does it through scholarships

@JourneymanGeek Explain the "with reservations from every other state" bit, I don't get it

@rahuldottech basically go "We have 20 seats for deserving students from $state"

rather than "we have 20 seats for $communities for students who didn't make the cut"

@JourneymanGeek ah, but there would just be a case in the Supreme Court, and everything would come at a complete stop because that's what always happens

I also think rather than reservations, clever affirmative action involves giving opportunities to folk who can't afford it

exactly

@rahuldottech just keep doing it and tying it up in court ;)

Unless you're sneaky as hell and start charecter assinating your opponents ;)

but hey, this is why I shouldn't go into politics ;)

@JourneymanGeek Man, the courts in India really suck. My mom is in High Court right now, fighting for our custody and what not. It's a fucking mess.

@rahuldottech its just as bad anywhere :(

Anyway. I gotta go study. I'll see ya.

See ya

im backxx

@Bob My internet connection keeps failing so chrome can't download the file, and wget is downloading it at literally 31KB/s

@rahuldottech you have a server you want me to upload to?

@Bob Is it okay if I give you a link in an hour or so?

I think the server supports range requests so you should be able to resume downloads

Hi

@rahuldottech If you prefer I can probably chuck it up on a rsync server

guys

any idea on this :

@rahuldottech Firefox will probably give you a resume option. Failing that, try a download manager.

@Bob lemme try

I just tested with uGet and pause/resume works

as do auto-retries

there's a default delay of 6s before a retry and a default limit of 99 retries

FreeDownloadManager would probably also work and is more full-featured, but not OSS

DownThemAll was great but is discontinued :\

morning

morning