Root Access

Bob

12:00 AM

heh

meanwhile

bwDraco

23%.

Bob

bwDraco

...and a reboot 29% in.

Heh. Insider Preview. Not sure I'd run it on this system...

Bob

@bwDraco It's running on an Azure VM :P

bwDraco

Bifrons is far too slow to support the frequent updates that Insider Preview calls for.

Bob

12:06 AM

I don't even use it anymore. I just keep it up-to-date cause it was a huge pain getting it on the preview (involved downloading th VM disks, upgrading locally, and uploading again).

bwDraco

@Bob Wow.

Bob

And the preview has an expiry, so if I leave it too long it might not boot anymore.

Of course, the preview update could break RDP and leave me stuck anyway...

@bwDraco Basically. Azure gives me Win10 w/ MSDN sub. But it's Win10 Enterprise N, which doesn't have a preview version. I had to locally upgrade to Enterprise (non-N), which activated fine with the Azure KMS server once it was uploaded.

bwDraco

Yuck.

Bob

Unfortunately, Azure still doesn't support a remote console, so anything that breaks RDP effectively breaks the server.

bwDraco

Heck, this laptop is slower than my phone (OnePlus 3T: Snapdragon 821, 6 GB RAM).

Well, kinda unfair comparing a flagship phone with a cheap netbook...

Bob

12:09 AM

Slightly dumb since the whole point of allowing client Windows on Azure for MSDN was for dev/test.

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco dosen't need to be remarkably fast

Bob

How can I test properly if I can't get the previews? -_-

bwDraco

@JourneymanGeek That's the whole point. I just wanted a cheap system for web browsing and productivity.

47%.

Bob

@bwDraco How much did you pay for the phone, and how much did you pay for the laptop?

bwDraco

$440 for the phone. $230 for the laptop.

3 hours ago, by bwDraco

A third of the RAM in my phone, for crying out loud, but $230? Can't beat that.

Bob

12:12 AM

@bwDraco Yea, I think for $440 you can get a (cheap) Core-m3.

bwDraco

I was looking for something on an extremely tight (<$300) budget.

I'm trying to save up for a new desktop, and since I'm not carrying my big laptop anymore, I needed some basic mobile productivity solution.

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco yup, I get that

bwDraco

GO AWAY CLIPPY

Bob

@bwDraco Yea, just saying... I think a Core-m3 is probably on par with a modern phone SoC

bwDraco

The phone is a different story; it's something I rely on every single day and it needs to be a fast model.

@Bob Yeah.

Bob

12:15 AM

Though, it's amazingly hard to find benchmarks.

@bwDraco Speaking of. Got a spec-list?

230 USD is probably slightly on the pricey side for a simple netbook.

I've seen them down to 150 USD, maybe lower. But those tend to be fairly shoddy.

Would not recommend.

bwDraco

@Bob Lenovo Flex 4-1130

2-in-1 touchscreen netbook. Rather unusual in this price class.

...and we're at the lock screen.

Bob

is it just me or is msdn blogs down blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing

@bwDraco ah, convertibles tend to cost a bit more yea

Journeyman Geek

@Bob someone complained about that and the new old thing being down

so yes

bwDraco

@Bob It's been down for a while.

4 hours ago, by DavidPostill

Hmm. The Old New Thing is broken

Bob

:(

social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/systemcenter/en-US/…

> This service synchronizes mail, contacts, calendar and various other user data.

On. A. Server.

WTF MICROSOFT

bwDraco

12:20 AM

rofl

Just finished finalizing updates. We're at the desktop.

Bob

downloaded maps

THIS IS A SERVER, NOT A BLOODY TABLET

I'm not even sure why they're stopped, either. But it makes things red. I don't like red on my servers.

Journeyman Geek

lol

I'm reading that as susan-uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

bwDraco

@Bob The storage is better than most in this price class. 32 GB of eMMC is common; this system has 64 GB.

Bob

@bwDraco Is 32 still common? I thought it was two years ago.

bwDraco

@Bob It still is. The Inspiron 11 3162 has 32 GB.

The IdeaPad 110S has 32 GB.

It helps that improvements in Windows 10 make it more compact than before, but 32 GB provides very little wiggle room.

Windows 10 will let you use an external storage device to store the Windows.old folder during the update.

The HP Stream 11 (now discontinued; @JourneymanGeek has one) has 32 GB.

Journeyman Geek

12:27 AM

yup

bwDraco

Still checking for updates as I begin the second round. If I'm lucky, I might get v1703, but I kinda doubt it.

...nope.

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco why not just download the version to a USB drive and use that to update?

bwDraco

Cumulative updates.

@JourneymanGeek It's not a fully-supported configuration.

However, given that this system is fresh out of the box... I'll probably go ahead.

Journeyman Geek

That's how I got my stream on windows 10

Bob

@JourneymanGeek I think going through each step is more reliable than skipping some.

Journeyman Geek

12:33 AM

@Bob on the other hand, its going to be a fresh install anyway, and its a good way to get a consistant, known out of box configuration

bwDraco

I'm going to complete this round of updates first, then run the media creation tool to force the feature upgrade.

4 hours ago, by bwDraco

(Celeron N3350: 2C/2T Goldmont (Apollo Lake) @ 1.1-2.4 GHz.)

This is the main limiting factor.

The system has both cores pegged most of the time.

Journeyman Geek

12:50 AM

0_0

Bob

Hm. Installed by default on Server 2016. Nice.

@bwDraco Meh. Atom CPU. Kinda expected :P

bwDraco

I know what Goldmont is. It's on about the same level as a Snapdragon Kryo core.

Bob

@bwDraco Is it? Interesting.

That would put even an older m3 a good step ahead then.

cpubenchmark.net/…

I've got a m3-6Y30 in mine.... no complaints about the CPU

bwDraco

> Downloading updates 14%

This will probably take hours.

CPU-bound all the time.

Well, not unexpected.

On first setup, the system did sync my desktop background through my Microsoft account.

Nice thing about this system is that there's no moving parts whatsoever so I don't have to baby it.

Downloading, 26%.

Bob

1:10 AM

@bwDraco Just don't accidentally create new moving parts ;)

bwDraco

lol

48%.

Bob

1:23 AM

@bwDraco 90%?

bwDraco

Installing. Eating dinner right now so I can't give it my full attention.

Bob

1:40 AM

> I don't want to see red blobs all over Server Manager window right out of the box due to some purely desktop-specific services randomly spazzing out.

social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/…

bwDraco

Bifrons is restarting.

@Bob lol

Bob

> Windows service for application access to downloaded maps. This service is started on-demand by application accessing downloaded maps. Disabling this service will prevent apps from accessing maps.

Server.

*disables*

> This service synchronizes mail, contacts, calendar and various other user data. Mail and other applications dependent on this functionality will not work properly when this service is not running.

Server.

*disables*

---------------------------
Services
---------------------------
The parameter is incorrect.


---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

wat

bwDraco

tomshardware.com/news/…

This is what happens when you don't carefully vet your software to make sure you're not shipping stuff in debug mode.

cwe.mitre.org/data/definitions/489.html

I'm pretty sure this was a mistake and not an intentionally-introduced vuln, but debug functionality can be very dangerous in the hands of an attacker.

Bob

@bwDraco Well, no shit.

That's what anyone sane said right from the start.

On the other end of the spectrum you've got scaremongers claiming this is a 'backdoor', that HP is 'stealing your data'.

sigh.

bwDraco

lol

Bob

1:49 AM

The reddit thread was so bad.

Even calling it a keylogger is misleading.

"keylogger", these days, implies malice.

bwDraco

cwe.mitre.org/data/definitions/534.html

Ben N

@Bob Which service?

bwDraco

Trump Revealed Highly Classified Intelligence to Russia, in Break With Ally, Officials Say nyti.ms/2qlqDEx (limited free access)

I really hope this does not jeopardize national security.

Trump, unhinged as ever.

Bob

@BenN "Sync Host"

bwDraco

> President Trump’s recklessness with sensitive information is deeply disturbing and clearly problematic

It's like Trump cares more about being friends with Russia than acting in the best interests of our nation.

Ben N

2:02 AM

@Bob Huh, I can't think of a reason for that to be on a Server machine

Does it come with the Desktop Experience component? If so, at least it's not mandatory

bwDraco

blogs.msdn.microsoft.com

> We are Sorry, this site is currently under maintenance!

Bob

@BenN Of course :P

bwDraco

Looks like it was hastily hacked together.

Bob

@BenN Possibly. I chose the install option that included a GUI.

Ben N

I suspect some Registry hackery could get rid of it, but that could easily break things if it's legitimately needed

bwDraco

2:08 AM

27 mins ago, by bwDraco

Bifrons is restarting.

Wow. Almost half an hour to get to the lock screen.

Bob

@BenN Yea, I'll just leave it be. Not like this is a particularly important machine.

@bwDraco That's fast.

I recently upgraded a Z2760 tablet.

Yea, uh.

bwDraco

This was just a routine update within v1607, not a full system upgrade.

Once I verify that there are no more updates through Windows Update, I'll deploy v1703.

...great. Nothing else.

I should probably delete Windows.old (from v1511) first.

Going through Disk Cleanup; this will probably take a long time (again).

Bob

@bwDraco If you do, do it through Disk Cleanup

...jinx! :P

bwDraco

@Bob 2C/4T Saltwell (Cloverview). Ouch.

How long did it take?

Bob

I personally subscribe to the "Pokedex written by a 10-year old" theory — SGR 19 hours ago

@bwDraco I left it overnight -_-

Don't think it was done by morning either. Can't really remember now.

bwDraco

2:26 AM

...well, that was quick. Starting the media creation tool...

But first, I'm going into the UEFI to set the F-keys so that I don't have to hit Fn+Fx to do Fx.

Intel VT-x is disabled; probably not enabling it.

Starting up...

Okay, let's install the Creators Update!

Going through the third round of updates, and that's v1703...

> Creating Windows 10 media

27%.

It sucks that out of the box, the system was out of date by two major versions of Windows 10.

Initializing Setup...

$WINDOWS.~BT file dates are consistent with v1703.

allquixotic

2:46 AM

@bwDraco I imagine JMG's dog "lazy-sitting" and panting, looking at you in response to that, as if to say, "Yeah, and what are you gonna do about it? Sue me?" -Lenovo

bwDraco

lol

First-world problems.

Installation of v1703 started.

allquixotic

my first-world problems:
1. My Mac, Apple Watch and iPhone took so long to update today that I laid down to take a nap, losing hours of productivity
2. Every time I open the TOTP key app for SWTOR, it's always, like, 5 sec from resetting, just long enough that I can't type it in and have to wait

bwDraco

Once the updates are complete, I can start installing essential apps.

bwDraco

3:13 AM

Just came back from a shower:

> Working on updates 16%

@JourneymanGeek, @allquixotic, @Bob, @DavidPostill: It seems MSDN Blogs is back online.

...weird. Had a chkdsk run on a system partition during one of the intermediate reboots.

42%.

One thing of note: The Dell Inspiron 11 3162 is available in a 4 GB RAM configuration; however, the price delta is as much as $50 ($249.99 vs $199.99). I suspect part of this is a Windows licensing cost difference; Windows 10 OEM licenses are cheaper on systems with limited resources.

75%.

The Apollo Lake processors technically support up to 8 GB of DDR3L-1600 (2x4 GB), but full memory configurations are extremely rare.

Almost done...

We're at the lock screen.

> We've got some updates for your PC

> This might take several minutes

Don't turn off your PC

That's the Creators Update!

...and there's the desktop!

Journeyman Geek

3:41 AM

hmm. i.imgur.com/1ikhIcw.png the ghetto ticketing system I threw together from google forms isn't bad, has shiny graphs

bwDraco

First things first: install Firefox.

Bob

Hm. My server is hard rebooting every hour o.O

bwDraco

4:09 AM

Firefox Sync is set up.

bwDraco

4:37 AM

DisplayCAL: Display tops out at 215 nits.

Initial delta-E 2000 for white is about 7.2. Not exactly great.

Journeyman Geek

lol

1366x768?

bwDraco

Yeah.

Doing a fast calibration. Not targeting high precision.

Journeyman Geek

screen's probably a bit naff then

allquixotic

@Bob OVH? that's not good

Bob

@allquixotic nah. Windows server on kvm on online.net

could be a kvm issue

allquixotic

4:49 AM

ah

Bob

idk yet

kvm is... finicky

allquixotic

@Bob Hey I had a similar issue a few server builds ago! :P

Bob

@allquixotic any ideas? :P

Journeyman Geek

lol

allquixotic

I didn't end up fixing it on that box; it fixed itself between software updates and a rebuild / distro upgrade over the years

that was probably before Ubuntu 16.04 was released

I don't think the problem manifested on 16.04, or maybe it did but they patched it

because it runs fine now

Bob

4:51 AM

hmm

I'm using deb 9

Journeyman Geek

hm.

I've been running KVM on fedora

its been rock solid

Bob

bwDraco

sigh

Wow. How the hell could this cause the RDP client to crash?

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Windows on kvm, specifically?

Journeyman Geek

hm, no, linux on KVM

ahh

allquixotic

5:01 AM

@Bob omg... I remember now

the KVM instance I had a problem with was on SmartOS, not on Linux

Solaris kernel

Bob

@allquixotic -________-

@allquixotic There's so many moving parts here... Server 2016 (new). Atom CPU (new). Debian Testing (new).

Oh look. It just... rebooted again.

allquixotic

@Bob try Ubu 16.04 host :D

bwDraco

Generating the calibration cLUT...

Bob

@allquixotic cbf setting all this up again

I did a live migration from ext4 to ZFS :P

bwDraco

lol @ "cbf"

Journeyman Geek

5:05 AM

@Bob why's it rebooting?

allquixotic

I'm a cat.

Journeyman Geek

Are they graceful or non graceful reboots?

@allquixotic lies. You're a ~~beep~~ sheep

Bob

@JourneymanGeek I don't know!

@JourneymanGeek Hard reboot.

Journeyman Geek

so. my boss wants paperwork for every single thing I do. I'm going to fax him at least 2 sheets of paper that says "rebooted PC" and one that says "Installed chrome"

Bob

It looks a lot like someone flipping the reset switch.

Journeyman Geek

5:07 AM

what's the logs say?

Bob

No BSoD, no errors in the libvirt logs...

@JourneymanGeek ...nothing at all

Journeyman Geek

what about the guest?

Bob

event logs just stop logging, then starts logging the powerup

Journeyman Geek

o0

hmm. there's a specific processor type that worked with windows 10

other stuff was not reliable

Bob

@JourneymanGeek no, he goes meow, therefore a cow

@JourneymanGeek ... :S

allquixotic

5:10 AM

Meow. I'm a cow.

Journeyman Geek

try setting the processor type to nehelem

Bob

@JourneymanGeek I was going to try Westmere, which was default. But I think Westmere supports things this Atom does not...

Journeyman Geek

hmm

my memory is shot

social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/…

you need to tell them to report as c2d

Bob

@JourneymanGeek but... they're actually getting bugchecks

I'm not

:S

Journeyman Geek

5:28 AM

lol

it ain't cargo cult if john frum delivers?

bwDraco

Calibration complete. 61.4% sRGB coverage. :(

This has got to be the worst laptop display I've worked with.

Bob

I'll try Westmere with a different topology (2/1/1 => 1/2/1)

bwDraco

Similar: reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/5ve0q0/…

(ThinkPad T470—yes, the newest model!)

This system cannot be used to do color-critical work (not that I would want to).

allquixotic

@bwDraco Lenovo's displays have always been around 3-5 years behind the standard displays you get on "artist-focused" or "artist-friendly" laptops, like Macs, certain Sony and HP laptops, etc.

bwDraco

5:44 AM

My Sager laptop, on the other hand, has a fantastic display.

allquixotic

generally speaking, the display tech, screen res and viewing angles, response times, and color on Lenovo's laptops are among the worst in the industry, consistently, for many years

bwDraco

The difference between the two are like night and day.

allquixotic

I had a Lenovo display that was so bad, you couldn't even see the light gray boxes in RA chat around other peoples' messages

it basically rendered them as pure white, being unable to distinguish

bwDraco

But it's these kinds of crap displays that benefit the most from calibration, because they're way off to begin with. Even so, no amount of calibration can expand the gamut of a bad panel.

allquixotic

I used to prefer matte displays but now I prefer glossy because the matte texture doesn't get in the way of your viewing (and I don't usually use my laptop outside)

Rahul2001

5:50 AM

'lo

@allquixotic MATTE FTW!

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic which is quite funny since thinkpad screens are ~~the best in the business~~ better than average

user226528

Huh! There is a stared post that reads " 3 man, humans are expensive"!

Journeyman Geek

(I love the IGZO screen on my razer, even if its shin)

user226528

Possible interpretations:
* Workers are expensive to employ
* Officials are expensive to bribe
* Slaves are expensive to purchase
* Whores are expensive to hire
* Humans are the opposite of "cheap"; i.e. humans are cool!

Rahul2001

* Kids are expensive to manage
* Girlfriends are expensive to please
* Parents are expensive to keep happy

satibel

6:04 AM

* humans tend to expend.

user226528

Are there any slaves in India?

user226528

Or has the slavery been abolished there?

Rahul2001

@FleetCommand Yes. No slavery

Slavery has been abolished here (in at least almost the whole of the nation) for ages.

djsmiley2k

wow that was fun

explorer crashed

Rahul2001

We're mostly a pretty diverse and accepting community

@djsmiley2k IE or FE?

djsmiley2k

6:11 AM

windows.

FE

but start menu and all

icons didn't load

etc

Journeyman Geek

hm. vivaldi has a very interesting 'web panel' feature. Essentially lets me dock a second webpage to the side

also automatically goes to mobile view

djsmiley2k

@JourneymanGeek that's almost what I want in chrome

Bob

@JourneymanGeek foxsplitter used to do that

Journeyman Geek

user226528

@JourneymanGeek Which one is better: Vivaldi or Firefox?

Journeyman Geek

6:21 AM

@FleetCommand i donno

I kinda need a 'second' browser at work

(so I keep things seperated)

user226528

Everyone does. I use Chrome as the second browser.

user226528

So, which one is better: Vivaldi or Chrome?

djsmiley2k

I run two profiles in chrome :O

Journeyman Geek

I have firefox exactly as I like it

user226528

So do I. Firefox is so customizable.

satibel

6:23 AM

@JourneymanGeek that's how I have mail at home. (still waiting on the mail client update.)

allquixotic

@FleetCommand if there were any objective truth to one browser being unqualified "better" than another, one of them would rather quickly cease to exist

user226528

@allquixotic Not true. If there is a stubborn company with a lot of money behind it, it wouldn't disappear, even if its market share is 2%.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic in theory, if I had any programming skill at all...

vivendi's apparently got its UI as CSS and JS, so doing a oneliner clone is a doable thing

Rahul2001

@FleetCommand Even if the market share is 2%, then it's the better browser for 2% of the people

satibel

if you like customizability, vivaldi is pretty good at this. It's basically a webpage.

my secondary browser is avant browser for testing reasons.

user226528

6:25 AM

@Rahul2001 Not if the company in question is so big that actually be the 2%.

user226528

And if the company rules says "we eat our own dog food".

allquixotic

@FleetCommand no, its market share would fade into obscurity, and be so low as to be insignificant; as long as that isn't the case, clearly there are some tradeoffs where one browser is better than the other for some reasons, and vice versa when you flip them

user226528

@allquixotic Tradeoff ... or a law that says either you use this or will suffer dire consequences.

allquixotic

if there were any truth to a browser being objectively better for EVERYONE than some other browser, it wouldn't have any significant marketshare at all -- maybe 0.1% -- if it's significant, like 5% or 15% or something, then clearly some people see a reason to use it and others don't, meaning there's a tradeoff

user226528

There is no objectivity in love or war, Sam Fisher!

satibel

6:28 AM

@FleetCommand baidu ? :p

allquixotic

Are apples better than oranges? are Honda Fits better than Toyota Priuses? Are pens better than pencils? This whole idea that you can take huge, complex issues that people are very divided on, and answer them objectively in a way that is true regardless of individual situation/cirumstance, is wrong-headed

so don't waste our time asking those questions

user226528

@satibel You catch on quick... :)

allquixotic

if you want to know which browser to use, freaking try them and see which one you like more

the only ones that aren't free are Edge and IE, and you probably run the platform they're on anyway so you can try them effectively free

user226528

Hear, hear...

satibel

@allquixotic all 36474 of them!

user226528

6:30 AM

Opera, for example, is Chrome without Chrome plugins.

allquixotic

@FleetCommand with a slightly different UI that some may prefer, and with a version of Blink/V8 that isn't always in sync with upstream Chrome, and probably excluding proprietary bits that are in Chrome but not Chromium....

any of those points can be viewed in a negative or a positive light depending on your perspective

user226528

Hey, guys, look at this: Microsoft’s Fluent Design System threatens to make Windows look good

djsmiley2k

satibel

@FleetCommand the new opera is.

user226528

I know. The old Opera was renamed Vivaldi.

satibel

6:33 AM

@FleetCommand flagged for clickbait.

user226528

You know, in StarCraft II, there is unit called Thor; when you click on it, it says "I'm here! Click me!"

satibel

@FleetCommand though there's still progress to catch up to the old opera (private tabs, mail, low bandwidth mode.)

and BTW Opera Neon isn't a reskin of chrome and may be interesting.

user226528

It is a YouTube link. Clickbait! Clickbait! Woo hoo! Woo hoo!

Journeyman Geek

opera neon is a chrome reskin too I think

vivendi is also blink based, by the old opera CEO

Bob

@JourneymanGeek modern firefox is XUL + CSS, and the CSS is still user-editable :P

I reduced the min tab width on mine a while ago

Journeyman Geek

6:40 AM

@Bob oneliner's still an 'oldschool' extension. It has minor maintainance releases but I donno if it'll survive the move over to webextensions

satibel

by chrome reskin I mean just changing the name and 2-3 tweaks

Journeyman Geek

ugh

The photocopier has a code. I don't know the code.

._.

this is super messed up

Bob

@JourneymanGeek the CSS isn't extension-editable yet but you can do it manually (userChrome.css in profile)

djsmiley2k

@JourneymanGeek 1234?

Journeyman Geek

lol. Tempted to try it but its not that urgent.

Bob

6:48 AM

> Information icon
Note In special cases, charges that are ordinarily incurred for support calls may be canceled if a Microsoft Support Professional determines that a specific update will resolve your problem. The usual support costs will apply to additional support questions and issues that do not qualify for the specific update in question. WAZOO.

... "WAZOO"?

Rahul2001

3

Q: How can I remap function keys while ensuring that they retain their original functions?

I would like to remap certain keys but ensure that they still retain their original functions with modifiers. For example, I want to remap F4 to mute, but I want ALT+F4 to still close applications. Is this possible? I am currently using KeyTweak, but after remapping F4 to mute, even ALT+F4 just...

Meh

satibel

@Bob phonetically written OISEAU (bird in french)?

djsmiley2k

modifer keys cause a different keycode to be sent, maybe?

satibel

Wazoo

Wazoo est un groupe de « folk festif auvergnat » fondé à Clermont-Ferrand en 1999 par Kévin Quicke et Jeff Chalaffre, qui formaient alors un duo appelé RAS depuis 1996. En juillet 1999 parait un premier album (Déroute Arverne) sur lequel figure le single La Manivelle. Le succès est immédiat avec 160 000 albums et 360 000 singles vendus. Il a été suivi en 2001 d'un second opus, Pas de Problèmes. Wazoo remonte sur scène en mai 2010 à l'Olympia lors des 25 ans de carrière de Sylvie Pullès, puis sort le single Vogue la vie en 2011. En mars 2013, le combo auvergnat sort son troisième album, Les Forains...