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12:02 AM
I found the answer that was submitted sort of funny. "How did this hacker prevent his website from being blocked by his isp" answer: "your isp has blocked port 80.... running a web server might be against the term ..." WAIT What?
 
Bob
@Ramhound yea, the answer seems to have ... massively ... misinterprefed the question :P
 
Dec 25 '16 at 2:26, by bwDraco
My biggest concern is whether Lineage will be able to produce ROMs that don't require a wipe to migrate to from CM13.
Although experimental, they have a way to manage this, through an intermediate migration ROM. Fantastic.
 
@Ramhound Eh. By love, you mean closevotes
 
lol
Oct 4 '16 at 4:20, by bwDraco
(I hate that mobile chat sometimes duplicates rather than properly edits messages)
 
12:08 AM
Yup
@Ramhound also I had some issues with deerspotter in the past. Don't engage.
 
@Ramhound Probably trolling. Don't post any comments; instead, flag for mod attention.
 
Understand I will refrain in the future
 
Eh. In this case, VTC, don't even bother flagging. This guy called me and BenN out on one of the metas
 
If in doubt, though, a free-text mod attention flag is generally okay; be sure to explain precisely what's going on so that it can be properly handled.
 
I do have a question:
-1
A: ISP cant block my website

DeerSpotterYour ISP blocks port 80 Nothing you can do about this one. You could try calling them to remove the block, but you'll have to get past the level 1 "Can you try rebooting to resolve this problem?" drones and the level 2 "We're not allowed to do that" drones first. More ISP's than not will block...

How should I handle something that answer in the future. Do I explain that verbatim answers shouldn't be submitted but instead flag as a duplicate?
 
12:22 AM
@Ramhound For most users acting in good faith, it's okay to leave a comment. If it appears to be trolling, just flag.
 
@Ramhound don't comment. There's nothing to be done. Downvotes are nice.
 
Irregardless of who submitted it
 
Don't comment if it's evident that the user is trolling.
I try to assume good faith and tend to err on the side of commenting.
It's a judgment call.
 
i can't tell if the answer is trolling or actually serious. I hate just voting if there is a chance to teach a user how to submit a better answer I look at some answer I was tough on and they significantly increase the quality of their answers
-1
A: ISP cant block my website

DeerSpotterYour ISP blocks port 80 Nothing you can do about this one. You could try calling them to remove the block, but you'll have to get past the level 1 "Can you try rebooting to resolve this problem?" drones and the level 2 "We're not allowed to do that" drones first. More ISP's than not will block...

 
12:27 AM
2k user in 60 days...
hold on pasted the wrong link
 
Sigh. Which part of don't engage isn't clear?
 
If the user does this repeatedly, then I won't comment any further. I am out of the loop here so I've posted this comment, but only once.
 
He copied and pasted it from the question I flag that question as a duplicate so your telling me the original author plagiarized?
That's hilarious
 
@JourneymanGeek As before, I'd rather assume good faith and give them a shot at proving themselves before actually treating the user as a troll.
It is not obvious that the user is trolling.
Innocent until proven guilty.
 
I just treat each individual interaction as unique.
 
12:39 AM
Meh. I've mentioned why not to engage.Don't forget if this blows up, chances are I'll need to deal with it.
 
Differing approaches to moderation...
 
Well, I'm an actual mod who specifically remembers this person.
@Ramhound that guy's ok
Don't forget people Arn't going to wear a flashing neon sign about what their actions will be
A good chunk of moderation is about how to deescalate a situation.
 
I'll see if I can put in a request to my parents to spend some time outside so I can socialize and gain some critical experience...
 
wait... what?
aren't you 21?
 
@Burgi You realize I am under very restrictive parentage?
 
12:47 AM
there is nothing they can do to prevent you from going out
 
Furthermore, I anticipate that things will get worse with disputes between Mother and Father, especially as restrictions start to get lifted over the coming months.
I don't want to go into more detail on a public forum; let's just say that Father is a pessimist and doesn't think Mother's more permissive approach is a good idea.
 
fair enough but i recommend "popping out for a pint of milk"
 
Jon Ericson on January 26, 2017
A look back on the year that was 2016.
 
Mom will generally say OK to things like this as long as I provide adequate advance notice (typically the night before), but Dad doesn't always agree.
 
just shout it as your leaving. any dissent and/or arguments are terminated when the door slams behind you
 
12:51 AM
Besides, Chinese New Year is on the 28th (see the star wall) so I have additional things to do these few days. Per tradition, we do a full clean-up of the house the night before.
 
@JourneymanGeek Yes; I know he is ok; but their first couple answers were pretty bad. One of a very small group users who started out really rough (submitting link-only answers) and are submitting much better answers now.
 
(We're not superstitious but we do it as a matter of tradition.)
 
@Ramhound My early answers are terrible too!
 
i still got answers with zero votes :-(
 
12:53 AM
lol so do I!
 
@Ramhound its your comments saying "this has been discussed before" without providing the context
 
wait what?
 
i'd have to dig out an example and i'm falling alseep at the keybaord
 
i might not remember users but I can recognize writting style.
(Not sure which statements your @'ing me about)
 
on questions, sometimes you say "this has been answered before" then don't rpovide an example
that said i haven't noticed you do it for a while
i'll find an eaxmple in the mrning i've vey tired right now
nn
 
1:00 AM
If I do it, it's something like, I see the samething twice in a short amount of time by the same user (about as far as my memory goes for stuff like this)
So I just say what's natural, if I tell somebody something on Monday, then make the same comment on Tuesday, I might reference Monday but somebody listening on Tuesday doesn't have the context but doesn't necessarly mean the person I made the comment doesn't have the context. If they don't I am happy to explain
if that makes any sense.... starting to go crazu myself
 
Bob
floof
 
1:32 AM
@Ramhound I once saw a user rocket to 15K in less than three months, but he seems to have burned out :(
 
yeah
one reason I tend to take it slow
 
@BenN lol
 
@bwDraco that is surprisingly well balanced, by the team of 2, and more natural for the different genders to , , , for your mom to be more unconditionally sheltering and permissive, and for the male role to be more expecting an adult to grow up in the real harsh world. At some age where your deemed old enough, both-em will push the kids out of the nest. They either fly or die, most of them fly :-) Ahh philosophical observations of society , that alter but do not change much.
 
1:47 AM
That's kinda sexist.
 
testosterone and estrogen are scientific facts.
but yea in todays society , where they are all the same (lol). . . . it has altered but not changed much, in thousands of years.
 
Tiger mother (traditional Chinese: 虎媽; simplified Chinese: 虎妈; pinyin: hǔmā; Wade–Giles: hu³ma¹) is a term which refers to a strict or demanding mother who pushes her children to be successful academically by attaining high levels of scholastic and academic achievement, using methods regarded as typical of childrearing in East and Southeast Asia to the detriment of the child's social, physical, psychological and emotional well-being. The term is coined by Yale law professor Amy Chua in her memoir Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. == Characteristics == === Harsh regimen === Mothers who set up rules...
is a thing
and its not just chinese
 
It's more like my father is this way.
 
@bwDraco just for the record, I was essentially a shutin when I joined this site
both in terms of the real world, and online.
so, meh, you learn social skills without a tremendious amount of effort
 
Mother understands that what I need to do is do my best, not achieve perfection. Perfect isn't possible.
 
1:54 AM
what's necessary is balancing self awareness, with not freaking the shit out about whether you're doing the right thing.
 
Over the last six years in college, I have seen myself grow tremendously. The first year was riddled with ejections from the classroom and campus security calls, but by the time I got to my senior undergraduate year, these problems were pretty much gone.
 
Father used to complain about B+ and A- grades on my report card when I was in grade school.
Mom knows that I put in the effort and that I'm very passionate about doing my very best. That's what matters.
Straight A's might look great, but let's be honest. Nobody's perfect.
A 3.97 GPA in grad school is nothing to scoff at.
 
@bwDraco i am :-) and because my parents did the same crap, but it paid off for the most part, even if nothing learned in "school" translated to rel life.
 
lol
 
2:02 AM
looking back getting 4.0s was more about who hands them out , than about how many i could get.
some teachers or professors would never let somone off that easy, and Up the challenge for the more gifted (gifted my butt, i just wanted out of there)
 
I've always been known as an overachiever. It's that I've had to cope with self-control problems along the way.
 
sorry no time to think about you, only the number of gold stars you can aquire.
 
I'm starting to get more decision-making authority (e.g. Father often wants me to shop and make purchases for him, then reimburse me after the fact) but I'm still not as free as I'd like to be.
 
at times when i did succeed away from them, and got accolade awards and achievments that could hang on the wall and all. I avoided showing/telling them, because that wasnt the whole me, that was just the ones on paper.
they cling to harshly to what other people think about me, what was important was what i thought about myself at any point.
 
You see, I've always tended to think long-term. Being a visionary isn't easy when others think your ideas are crazy.
 
2:17 AM
crasy ideas pay off huge, the day after you die and everyone cashes in on them :-)
all those greatest inventers , like 1/2 of them were broke solid for thier whole life , the overvalued artists that couldnt get enough money to eat from thier art , now thier painting selling for 25million
much of our historical heroes, had one thing going for them, hard work , not plaques on the wall
 
Precisely.
 
2:37 AM
laughingsquid.com/… what I suspect dog was really doing when he was missing...
 
3:13 AM
Aug 3 '16 at 13:38, by bwDraco
> You have a knack for trading the British Pound against the Japanese Yen. You have a killer hot sauce recipe, and it’s in distribution worldwide. You just made partner at your father-in-law’s firm. Whatever the case, you’re in that elite group that doesn’t really worry about money. You have the beach house, the Bentley, and the Bulgari. And now Nvidia has a graphics card for your gaming PC: the Titan X.
Updating the build plans to use the TITAN X.
 
to put in your Rolls Royce?
 
Aug 3 '16 at 18:22, by bwDraco
(3584 CUDA cores in 28 of 30 SMs on Pascal GP102 @ 1417-1531 MHz; 12 GB GDDR5X @ 10 Gbps on 384-bit bus.)
 
how much power does it use when it is working 100% to play a game
 
I'm probably going to add a CLLC to the card.
 
0_0
9
Q: How do you remove leeches from your eyeball?

user19652Leeches have been known to fall and attach on the eyeballs of hapless hikers. Where I'm from, if a leech attaches itself to you, you just spray it with alcohol and it will shrink and fall off. Obviously spraying alcohol on your eyes is not advisable. I asked a guide how they would remove one in ...

@bwDraco juast my opinion, and everyone elses here I suspect, but the titans are a bit of a waste of money.
 
3:17 AM
Hmm. I can't seem to find a CLLC for the card. I'll have to go open loop.
 
You'd probably do quite well with a 1080/1080TI that costs about 2/3 as much or less
 
yea put water in there, electronics love that
 
Aug 3 '16 at 13:38, by bwDraco
> You have a knack for trading the British Pound against the Japanese Yen. You have a killer hot sauce recipe, and it’s in distribution worldwide. You just made partner at your father-in-law’s firm. Whatever the case, you’re in that elite group that doesn’t really worry about money. You have the beach house, the Bentley, and the Bulgari. And now Nvidia has a graphics card for your gaming PC: the Titan X.
 
Do you? ;p
 
That's the whole point. We have the funds to support this. I just need to get Mother to approve it.
 
3:19 AM
Cause most of us are totally trying to build the most kickass rigs we can, sensibly ;p
 
when building a desktop (not laptop) you dont require the whole budget. Plus getting stuff working one at a time, means you know what is a likely suspect when something goes wrong or changes.
 
Let's be frank about this. I can attempt to get approval for building Lucifer but I doubt my mother will like the idea of a $9,000 PC.
PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/MHXyLD
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/MHXyLD/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i7-6950X 3.0GHz 10-Core Processor ($1649.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H115i 104.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI X99A GODLIKE GAMING EATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($529.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($711.47 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 960 Pro 1.0TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($685.93 @ Amazon)
TITAN X seems to be very hard to find, hence the inflated prices.
 
wat
use titan xp
is better
oh nm
> 833W
 
@wat This is the Pascal GP102 card.
 
wat
> 1500 PSU
 
3:22 AM
Post build additions of , Drives, SSDs even, raid cards, tv cards, video cards, and (of course) usb adapting stuff, NASes. even upgrading the CPU or ram. All you need is a primo PSU and great motherboard to support future upgrades, you dont have to get too deep at the start
 
wat
Just get a 1000W PSU and be done with it
 
@wat We need headroom for OC.
 
wat
...OC?
 
1200W is the minimum here.
 
wat
You're buying all that computer hardware and you still need to overclock it?
 
3:23 AM
@wat Overclocking sucks huge amounts of power.
 
wat
I know, I did it myself at one time
I just don't feel the need to do it anymore
 
Look, I routinely run my laptop's GPU overclocked.
 
wat
...laptop.
so that improves from 15 frames in tf2 to 17 frames
in my case
 
@wat It's a gaming laptop with a GTX 780M. The GPU's showing its age so I'm trying to extract as much performance out of it as possible.
 
wat
OK, makes sense if it is a gaming laptop.
It's just that my laptop is a Dell Latitude E6410. Overclocking that GPU would be a. impossible, and b. futile.
 
3:25 AM
lol
 
wat
My mind jumped straight to that
 
Had to overclock my old HP laptop's GPU many years back. The Mobility Radeon HD 5650 had loads of trouble running then-current games at 1366x768.
 
wat
BTW should I upgrade from the 1280x800 screen to the 1440x900 screen?
 
Aug 18 '16 at 3:27, by bwDraco
My old laptop was replaced after it had trouble running games at medium settings at 1366x768 due to the extremely old and underpowered GPU (overclocking helped but did not make a huge difference).
 
wat
I don't run games on my laptop because I physically can't
most it can handle is either civ 5 in strategic view, half-life 2, or VVVVVV
 
3:32 AM
My laptop runs the new DOOM just fine but that's pushing it.
(1080p medium settings, around 40-50 fps most places)
 
wat
it's nice to hear that you can afford a semi-recent laptop :,(
I have a 970 in my main PC
 
Well, the system ran us about $2200 when we got it three years ago. Aftermarket storage and memory upgrades have bumped the total cost to about $2800.
 
> 1 additional PCI-Express 6-pin power connector is needed.
You're short on PCIe aux power connectors. Are you using an adapter of some sort?
The PSU has no PCIe aux power, and 346W maximum load is awfully close to the PSU's 430W limit. I'm not too confident in the longevity of this build...
I know most PSUs will tolerate some degree of peak overload, but this looks like a cheapie model that might not be well behaved in such a situation.
It's by no means a bad supply, though, performing surprisingly well in JonnyGURU testing: jonnyguru.com/…
 
@wat Typically, upgrading just a laptop's screen can be tricky
Also, its not just about resolution
 
wat
3:45 AM
@JourneymanGeek I've removed the screen on this unit before. It's easy to replace, and some users on forums have successfully done it.
 
@wat some models have firmware hax
 
wat
@bwDraco yes, 2 molex to one PCIe 6-pin.
@JourneymanGeek ?
 
"some users on forums have successfully done it"
Ah, that's different
my R61 will take a better screen with a firmware hack, better inverter...
 
wat
This screen is LED backlit, no need for inverter
@bwDraco 80W of overhead is "close" now? I don't overclock.
@bwDraco That's part of the reason that I chose it.
 
My bad, the supply has one PCIe aux power connector, but your card needs two.
 
wat
3:47 AM
@bwDraco Exactly
 
@wat eh. While some folk here would disagree, I don't consider my ideal laptop and my ideal gaming rig overlap
I want decent battery life and lightness in my laptops
I want power and big screens on my gaming boxen
 
wat
That's exactly what I want in a laptop, I was considering an XPS 15.
 
wat
I also looked at this Gigabyte laptop with a GTX 970M and pretty light
 
0
Q: More Than 1 Display

user690555How to use more than 1 display.

 
@wat my current laptops are a razer blade stealth (which I love to bits but isn't really pushed hard) and a steam 11 (which is the best thing for throwing into a bag and not worrying)
 
wat
@JourneymanGeek what is a steam 11
also, the E6410 is a tank
I've heard stories about them being dropped off stairs and shrugging it off
 
Its a windows netbook
mind you, that's a newer model
 
wat
@JourneymanGeek
 
oops
*stream
 
3:59 AM
Woof
 
wat
lol
 
!!caaaaat2
 
wat
i had to photoshop that
gimp, whatever, i cant afford photo shop and it does not run on linux anyway
 
 
1 hour later…
Bob
1 message moved to Trash
That's... not really a great thing to onebox.
 
Bob
5:38 AM
@JourneymanGeek ok, got Amazon to reship the HDD. And now we play the waiting game... again.
I'll end up with either 4x 8 TB or 6x 8 TB at the end of this (and then have to ship 2 back)
 
you did the seagates?
 
Bob
ya
 
5:55 AM
@Bob desktop Seagates? :D
(the ones I have)
 
Bob
6:10 AM
@allquixotic external
which were cheaper *shrug*
and don't have to be always on
and I don't have to find/add internal SATA connectors :P
 
6:22 AM
If'n you guys want to help me out, you could fake interest in this project home i am almost finished with . google.com/… the MLS listing not the zillo and truilio . anywhere you happen to look all that tracking stuff will boilster the seo
and if your funny, you could set-up a tour and not show up :-P but that wont help
It is already HNQ or HNH in this case :-)
me 'n the dogs are holding up in the garage actually 2 computers out there, every1 wants me out , but they have to hand me cash and tell me to leave first :-) . . . and that probate thing , the foreclosures and , well nothing i am not used to by now :-)
 
 
3 hours later…
9:03 AM
morning
 
9:26 AM
hello!
 
Bob
9:51 AM
olle!
 
10:09 AM
ola
 
Hello, Bonjour, Hola, Guten tag, Ciao, Ola, Namaste, Salaam, Zdras Tvuy Te, Ohayo, Ahn Young Ha Se Yo, Merhaba, Sain Bainuu, Salemetsiz Be, Szia, Marhaba, Sannu, Jambo, Ni Hau, Halo
 
10:26 AM
SmartArse™ ;)
 
@Burgi lol. I had that stashed, been waiting for a chance to use it :)
 
 
2 hours later…
12:03 PM
After Windows 7 finishes with all the updates, it takes 30GB of space :(
 
12:18 PM
clear the downloaded cache files
 
12:35 PM
Move it into the cloud, they have lots of space
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek poke? :P
 
Woof. Out :p
Mom needs a pickup and someone needs to dogsit the roomie
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek ah, k
 
12:54 PM
Um, I need some help choosing a machine for mum
The first is cheaper, but has an i3 (7th gen)
She does a lot of research, so at any given time, she'll have like 20 tabs in chrome, 10 document in Word and like 8 PDFs in Acrobat open...
 
Bob
@Rahul2001 budget, requirements, blah blah blah
I'll be back in a bit
 
Will the i3 be able to manage this?
 
Bob
@Rahul2001 sure
you'd be more constrained by ram
depends a bit on what the tabs are, but not much
buuuuut becareful, an "i3" these days can be a Y part
 
@Bob huh?
 
Bob
ultra low power
oh the two you linked are U parts
those are better
@Rahul2001 eww, HDD
 
12:58 PM
Okay, so I'll go ahead with the purchase?
@Bob I'll swap it with an SSD if possible
 
Bob
@Rahul2001 maybe wait for others' opinions
 
One of our clients raised a very fucked up issue. Apparently his "laptop loses network connectivity randomly"
Upon further investigation, it turns out, the connectivity is fine, he just gets weird error messages in regard to the availability of resources available on a network share
The problem appears randomly and disappears just as randomly
Other network shares hosted on the same server are accessible while the problem is in effect
Internet is fine as well. So it seems to be something specific to the share
Other users are not affected by the same issue
I am not on site and am expected to come up with a solution
 
@OliverSalzburg That's always the hard bit :)
 
Eh, I need some arguments in favour of SSDs over HDDs
 
@Rahul2001 Faster
 
1:06 PM
That
The S in SSD stands for Speed. The same is correct for an HDD
 
> Durability: An SSD has no moving parts, so it is more likely to keep your data safe in the event you drop your laptop bag or your system is shaken about by an earthquake while it's operating.
 
Audible noise can also be a factor
 
> SSDs make virtually no noise at all, since they're non-mechanical.
> Overall: Hard drives win on price, capacity, and availability. SSDs work best if speed, ruggedness, form factor, noise, or fragmentation (technically part of speed) are important factors to you. If it weren't for the price and capacity issues, SSDs would be the hands-down winner.
 
Bah, is 150 USD for a 500GB SSD worth it?
 
@Rahul2001 Depends on the brand, the specs, your local market...
TRUST ME. I KNOW.
 
1:16 PM
Lol, uh...
 
@Rahul2001 Sounds reasonable
 
So... Anyone with nothing to do and lots of time is interested in helping me figure how to set up an Apache reverse proxy??
 
@ThatBrazilianGuy Reverse Proxy Guide not good enough for you? ;p
 
@ThatBrazilianGuy @OliverSalzburg flipkart.com/…
 
Bob
1:20 PM
@DavidPostill SSDs win availability now tbh
it's much harder to find an internal HDD
especially a small one
 
@DavidPostill I'm stuck even before this. I'm trying (and failing) to build a docker image for it using the official apache image (hub.docker.com/_/httpd)
 
hey guys, not sure if this is on topic.... fresh install of windows 10, works fine. First update, i lose all USB connections
USB works fine in bios (can use kb and mouse there), also works fine in some of the windows repair utilities (command prompt, but no safe modes)
 
@ThatBrazilianGuy I'll only help if it's nginx
 
;_;
 
@Isaac You're probably better posting this as a question on the main site.
 
1:24 PM
im not sure how to phrase the question
ill give it a go tho
 
@Rahul2001 ooh great find
 
@HackToHell nginx is black magic I'm more comfortable with Apache. I prefer using something I can understand the docs and bother you guys less in the future ;)
Speaking about future...
It's so crazy how naming something "2001" went from "this is oh so futuristic" to "just the year I was born"
 
@ThatBrazilianGuy nooo apache needs to die in a vat of greek fire
Also I forgot how it works :P
It's 4 lines in nginx @ThatBrazilianGuy
You are forwarding http traffic right
 
I want to forward http traffic, but also rewrite on-the-fly a single non-regex string on text files (html and js), and also local caching.
 
@Rahul2001 that's a SSHD
An HDD with a SSD cache
 
1:28 PM
THROW YOURSELF FROM A CLIFF, CLIPPY.
Ok, just instantiating the default Apache docker container works. So it's my httpd.conf that's wrong.
Who would've thought, huh?
 
but but
don't use apache :'(
 
> ServerName something.dev
Listen 80

<VirtualHost *:80>
ProxyRequests Off
LoadModule proxy_module modules/mod_proxy.so
#LoadModule substitute_module modules/mod_substitute.so
#LoadModule proxy_html_module modules/mod_proxy_html.so
ProxyPass "/" "http://somethingelse.gov.br"
ProxyPassReverse "/" "http://somethingelse.gov.br"
</VirtualHost>
 
don't have valid reason to back this up
 
Doesn't work because I don't know what I am doing for some reason
 
location /some/path/ {
proxy_pass http://www.example.com/link/;
}
nginx #!@#
@ThatBrazilianGuy +1 reason for switching to nginx
 
1:34 PM
@HackToHell Listen. I know nginx is supposed to be more efficient, advanced, modern, and just overall better. But I have no idea how it works, and when I tried to learn back in 2014 the documentation was sparse, confusing, all over the place, and oftentimes contraditory.
I'd rather use something less powerful, but better documented. Performance is not a key point here.
7 mins ago, by That Brazilian Guy
I want to forward http traffic, but also rewrite on-the-fly a single non-regex string on text files (html and js), and also local caching.
I have, in 15mins, found out (more or less) how to do that with Apache.
And I'm sure I can find help quicker on SO / SF / etc.
 
Alright
 
(On second thought, no, not on SF, fuck those guys)
 
SF ?
 
I know nginx is the future and I probably should get myself familiar with it.
But the future is scary and I fear change....
OH MY GOD I'M OFFICIALLY BECOMING OLD!!!!!!! HAAAALP
@HackToHell Server Fault, a.k.a. those who'll downvote you do death while laughing about it.
 
1:49 PM
ohh forgot
 
lol
I run lighttpd. I should actually switch to ngnix but I procrastinate a lot
 
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